The Gang of Five

Beyond the Mysterious Beyond => Hobbies and Recreation => Gamers Zone => Topic started by: pokeplayer984 on August 30, 2010, 09:59:29 AM

Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: pokeplayer984 on August 30, 2010, 09:59:29 AM
This game is only one day away and I can't wait to get it.

From the reviews, it seems that Team Ninja has indeed risked a lot.  There's several elements that have NEVER been introduced into this franchise before.  Each one of them could be a make or break for this game alone.

Now, before anyone goes crazy on the idea of giving Samus a voice, let me just say that it's not a bad voice by any means.  Far from it, really.  I heard it for myself in the following review and I must say that it is a good voice.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/review-m...id-other/703717 (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/review-metroid-other/703717)

Whether or not it works for her, I'll have to wait until I play it to judge it.

I understand that a voice is a big risk to take with a nearly silent character. (Up to this point, closest we ever got was in The Prime Trilogy with that scream when you died.) However, if you pick just the right one, the bashing you get in the end, won't be so bad. :P:

Gameplay-wise, this looks pretty good.  A 2D-3D hybrid can be a tricky and risky thing, but according to reviewers, they make it work.  The biggest gripe is that it's Wiimote Only.  As such, when moving to the First Person Perspective, you can't move at all.  This makes gives you more accuracy at the cost of making you vulnerable to attacks.  So use it with caution.

Not to mention that the new Finishing Move just looks awesome in this one.  Samus is absolutely deadly with it.  Just like all finishing moves should be.  Even though it's a new thing for the franchise, it's looking like a great new thing for it.

Finally, if anyone's wondering exactly when after Super Metroid this takes place, it's immediately after it.  The story opens at the final epic battle with Mother Brain.  This is the official sequel that we've all been waiting for.

Best of luck  to Team Ninja on this.  This game is one big gamble that will hopefully pay off. :)

As for me, I'll be getting it tomorrow.

See ya later! :)
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: LBTFan13 on August 30, 2010, 01:07:11 PM
This game has been getting quite good reviews all around, with criticisms gearing towards the story as well as the awkwardness of the first person view. Not surprisingly, XPlay is one of the few companies to give it a bad review, while others such as IGN and Gametrailers praise it as a solid game with some flaws. I say not surprisingly because this isn't the first time a review done by XPlay has been questioned in regards to other major gaming reviews.

I'm personally really excited for this game. Ninja Gaiden is one of my favorite games, so this is bound to be really good as well.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: WeirdRaptor on August 30, 2010, 04:41:15 PM
I think this looks to be awesome. I've been waiting for a game like this for a long time. One that takes me back to the good ol' days of Super Metroid, yet innovates, and lets us in on Samus's past (and finally give Jennifer Hale a speaking role in these games. A seasoned voice actress and all she ever gets to do as Samus is scream and grunt. About frikkin time they put words to her).
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Campion1 on August 30, 2010, 08:30:55 PM
The terrible camera kinda killed super metroid for me, but this looks like it's gonna satisfy the fun factor I wanted from it.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: DarkHououmon on August 30, 2010, 08:39:38 PM
Quote from: Campion1,Aug 30 2010 on  08:30 PM
The terrible camera kinda killed super metroid for me, but this looks like it's gonna satisfy the fun factor I wanted from it.
What terrible camera? It was a sidescroller.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Littlefoot1616 on August 31, 2010, 06:12:46 AM
Quote from: Campion1,Aug 30 2010 on  07:30 PM
The terrible camera kinda killed super metroid for me, but this looks like it's gonna satisfy the fun factor I wanted from it.
My thoughts exactly DH. If you criticise the "camera" (if you can even really call it that back in those days) of Super Metroid, then you are criticising pretty much every single game that ever existed up until the Playstation/N64 era when 3D space was in proper use. Sidescrollers like Mario, Sonic, Metroid (and the rest) don't utlise what we define in games nowadays as a "camera". It was just a flat plane you run left to right on. It's only objective was to keep the character centered (apart from the stages where the screen chases you and pressures you not to fall behind).

Anyway, that aside, Metroid Other M comes to us on Friday. I'm gonna be first in line for this for sure. I didn't really get into the Metroid series until I played the Prime Trilogy. I loved those. I then got Super Metroid on Wii's VC (still haven't finished it  :p). I've been following the reviews closely and it seems the vast majority are impressed with it. Gamespot landed it an 8.5/10. Everyone has pointed out the same issues. Does Samus with a voice work? (The simple fact that they've given the role to Jennifer Hale should answer that in a single positive word but I suppose it's a matter of opinion). The FPS mode has been given a lashing about the inability to move but hey, it worked for Resident Evil across that series with little more than a few frustrating moans. Apparently the lock-on system can be a bit tempramental, sometimes locking on to the wrong enemy and throwing your focus off as you blast something on the sidelines spectating rather that the monster launching itself at you with its maw open wide. The other grind I heard was that it's a bit unevenly paced. The cutscenes have classic Metal Gear Solid-itis. I.e. far too long. I for one enjoy most cutscenes especially when something exciting happens. That being said, they have done the one big no-no I don't agree with. They're unskippable. These can get annoying especially if they're just before a boss fight and you're on your fifth try. You really don't wanna be seeing the same FMV again everytime you get your face smacked in.

As expected from Team Ninja, combat is slick, tight and impressive (as anyone who's played Ninja Gaiden will know). The finishers look great showing off just how agile and deadly Samus can be. And the numerous boss battle are supposed to be hugely engaging. Nothing's been said much for the difficulty curve which I'm surprised about. Both Metroid and Team Ninja's games have a notoriety for being soddish hard and sometimes right from the get-go. I wonder if the curve has calmed a bit so not to put too many players off.

Anyway, I definite purchase from me on Friday. Another great excuse for not doing the work I've been set from uni :lol
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Flathead770 on September 01, 2010, 02:46:38 AM
I got Metroid: Other M today (or yesterday i should be saying) and have been having a blast playing it. I don't mind the voice acting for Samus at all, and i think it works well with the story so far. Speaking of story, i've been excited for the story of this game since the reveal trailer. Assuming this is the story that Metroid Fusion is referencing with Samus' old commanding officer, Adam Malkovich(don't want to give any spoilers for those who haven't played Metroid Fusion).
The finishing moves are amazingly satisfying, more staisfying than Link's downstab in Twilight Princess could ever be. Theres a quick evade move as well, tap a direction just before you get hit to quickly dodge out of the way. If you start to charge your beam while evading, it will instantly charge up, giving you a chance to counter-attack.
Also, missiles can only be fired in first person view, when locked on to a target, though in a way i kinda like that as you have to put yourself at risk of getting hit for the extra firepower.

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then got Super Metroid on Wii's VC (still haven't finished it ).
You should beat Super Metroid before you play this game. Seriously, big spoilers for the ending of Super Metroid at the beginning of this game.

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The cutscenes have classic Metal Gear Solid-itis. I.e. far too long. I for one enjoy most cutscenes especially when something exciting happens. That being said, they have done the one big no-no I don't agree with. They're unskippable. These can get annoying especially if they're just before a boss fight and you're on your fifth try. You really don't wanna be seeing the same FMV again everytime you get your face smacked in.
So far the cutscenes haven't been that bad, you don't have to wait 30min before you can start actually playing  :lol . Also if you die on a boss it starts you right as the fight begins, so no repeated cutscene watching  :DD .

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Nothing's been said much for the difficulty curve which I'm surprised about. Both Metroid and Team Ninja's games have a notoriety for being soddish hard and sometimes right from the get-go. I wonder if the curve has calmed a bit so not to put too many players off.
I'll tell you this, the curve in my opinion seems even higher. So far i've died around 4 times and im 4 hours in. To put it in perspective, first time playing MP2 and 3 i only died once each game (veteran on MP3). I find this to be the hardest Metroid game in a while, which i think is good.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Campion1 on September 01, 2010, 09:10:44 AM
Just to defend myself:
Quote from: DarkHououmon,Aug 30 2010 on  07:39 PM
Quote from: Campion1,Aug 30 2010 on  08:30 PM
The terrible camera kinda killed super metroid for me, but this looks like it's gonna satisfy the fun factor I wanted from it.
What terrible camera? It was a sidescroller.
Yeah, and so was the first and second, and you could see enemies that were a good distance away from Samus. What I guess I meant to say, is that screen was not big enough, and you always ran at the edge of it. I always ended up running into enemies. I don't care about "claustrophobic" feeling it may have been trying to give, because it broke the gameplay for me. Bosses were way more harder because of how small the rooms were, and I couldn't jump out of the way of enemies. It wasn't a BAD game to me, I guess I just suck at the game, man.
Quote from: Littlefoot1616 on  
My thoughts exactly DH. If you criticize the "camera" (if you can even really call it that back in those days) of Super Metroid, then you are criticizing pretty much every single game that ever existed up until the Playstation/N64 era when 3D space was in proper use. Sidescrollers like Mario, Sonic, Metroid (and the rest) don't utlise what we define in games nowadays as a "camera". It was just a flat plane you run left to right on. It's only objective was to keep the character centered (apart from the stages where the screen chases you and pressures you not to fall behind).
Some things:

Not every single game was a side scroller before the "fifth generation"

3D (Both the illusion of it and the actual implementation) was already in use for a few years in gaming before those systems came out

Those games you mentioned don't have you running on flat planes. (Except mario1)

Uh, yes, I knew about those games, and many more. Mostly because I grew up on them, but also other games no one ever heard about.
Quote from: Littlefoot1616 on  
The cutscenes have classic Metal Gear Solid-itis. I.e. far too long. I for one enjoy most cutscenes especially when something exciting happens.
Well I, for one, enjoy cut scenes that actually intrigue the viewer. Metal gear solid was not always about gameplay. Either that, or it was, if you skipped them.
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That being said, they have done the one big no-no I don't agree with. They're unskippable.
But, MGS's cutscenes were. In fact, every single game in the series let you skip them. Nintendo doesn't really do that. (No ragging on them, though)

and to contribute to the topic, Nintendo's latest trailer for this game was the best I've seen.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: DarkHououmon on September 01, 2010, 10:37:58 AM
Actually, of the sidescrolling games, Metroid 2 actually had the least amount of visibility available to the player. Here are screenshots from Metroid 1, 2, 3, and 4 to show my point.


(http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u72/Inferdramon/groupscreen.png)

With the exception of 2 (the only gray one), the games offer a decent amount of visibility. Metroid 2, on the other hand, has the most "claustrophobic" feel because of how large Samus is compared to the screen.

And running at the edge of the screen in Super Metroid? Sorry but I don't believe that is true. I've played Super Metroid and the only time I'd be near the edge of the screen is either when I'm going through a door or when I'm using the speed dash. Other than that I'm usually in the middle of the screen. I can believe that statement for Metroid 2 because, as I said, it has the least amount of visibility available to the player because of Samus being larger in comparison to her surroundings than in the other games.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Campion1 on September 01, 2010, 11:33:34 AM
I'm just going to leave it at the statement that I suck at metroid 3  :p
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Flathead770 on September 01, 2010, 11:49:03 PM
One thing that has bothered me about the game so far is that you don't actually obtain new items. Samus starts with all of them at the beginning of the game but only activates them when Adam authorizes it. While it does make sense that samus would retain all of her abilities from Super Metroid it removes the satisfaction of finding them by yourself. At least you don't lose all of them at the beginning like in MP 1 & 2 though  :lol.

There's also another slight problem I had at a certain point but I can't say since it has some spoilers.

Otherwise the game is still really fun and I just hit a major advance in the plot which is awesome and ties some lose ends, can't wait to see what happens at the end!
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: StarfallRaptor on September 02, 2010, 01:11:58 AM
Canonically, her limiting her abilities makes sense since she's working with the Federation on this one, and, as such, probably would want to avoid undue friction between the groups.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Flathead770 on September 02, 2010, 02:02:43 AM
and thats the same reason given in the game, i just prefer to physically grab a power up, thats all. It feels more like you've earned it.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Littlefoot1616 on September 02, 2010, 01:47:56 PM
Quote
3D (Both the illusion of it and the actual implementation) was already in use for a few years in gaming before those systems came out
Would you care to give some examples? And please don't say Doom "3D" or Wolfenstein 3D or Duke Nukem 3D coz they are not 3D. There were a series of flat planes giving the illusion of moving through 3D space. It still didn't utlise what we would call a camera by today's standard. It would make for an awesome discussion to see what early definitions of "3D in games" would be pre-Playstation era.

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Well I, for one, enjoy cut scenes that actually intrigue the viewer. Metal gear solid was not always about gameplay. Either that, or it was, if you skipped them.
Oh don't get me wrong. I sat through every single MGS cutscene at least once. The cinematics especially in Twin Snakes were awesome (special mention to fights with Grey Fox). MGS4 was the biggest culprit of what I meant by MGS-itis but I still watched them all. Including the 1hr+ ending one. :lol MGS is one of my fav game series-es

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But, MGS's cutscenes were. In fact, every single game in the series let you skip them. Nintendo doesn't really do that. (No ragging on them, though)
Think you missed the flow of conversation here. :DD I was, at this point, referring to Metroid: Other M. I know full well that MGS's cutscenes are skippable. Good clause too in some instances. :p

Anywho, Metroid: Other M for me tomorrow! Woohoo!  :smile
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Campion1 on September 02, 2010, 03:59:10 PM
sup littlefootsixteen-one-six
Quote from: Littlefoot1616,Sep 2 2010 on  12:47 PM
Quote
3D (Both the illusion of it and the actual implementation) was already in use for a few years in gaming before those systems came out
Would you care to give some examples? And please don't say Doom "3D" or Wolfenstein 3D or Duke Nukem 3D coz they are not 3D. There were a series of flat planes giving the illusion of moving through 3D space. It still didn't utlise what we would call a camera by today's standard. It would make for an awesome discussion to see what early definitions of "3D in games" would be pre-Playstation era.
Some games: Star fox, Virtua Racing, alone in the dark, Magic carpet, and about three other games. Yes, I do know about doom's engine.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: WeirdRaptor on September 03, 2010, 08:12:45 PM
Well, I got the game and loved to death. I like how Samus's canon personality is nothing like how fans have made her out to be for years. I'm also loving the fan backlash it's getting from those who can't accept it.

Anyway, the gameplay is excellent, the story is decent, Samus's official personality is interesting, and it was intriguing to see Adam Malkovich in person. All in all, a solid B+.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: DarkHououmon on September 03, 2010, 08:33:30 PM
Quote from: WeirdRaptor,Sep 3 2010 on  08:12 PM
I like how Samus's canon personality is nothing like how fans have made her out to be for years.
How did the fans  speculate she'd be like? I don't tend to go by fan speculation of a character; I have my own speculation of how she is. It might be inaccurate, but oh well. I still look forward to playing the game. Just rented it today.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: WeirdRaptor on September 03, 2010, 08:38:42 PM
They all think she's the standard action girl with absolutely no emotional weaknesses. In the game, she's portrayed as a heavily traumatised individual (you know, someone who has been orphaned by the space pirates twice) who still is grappling with her own issues while trying to get her job done. She also displays horror at Ridley still being alive.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: DarkHououmon on September 03, 2010, 08:44:55 PM
I wonder why people would be upset over that. It makes sense. I mean she lost her family when she was just a little girl, lost everything she knew. This isn't something that someone is going to get over very easily and would stick with them for the rest of their lives.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: LBTFan13 on September 03, 2010, 11:38:11 PM
The way I see it, people are treating Samus way too much like Link from Zelda. When you think about it, Link is such a beloved hero, and yet he does not speak one word in ANY game he is featured in (made by Nintendo). The same goes for Samus. Minus the grunts and screams in the Prime series, Samus has not as much as uttered one word in the franchise.

I think people are so attatched to heroes who do not speak regularly because they are afraid that a completely awesome character could be ruined by the voice actor. You see what happened to Link when he actually started speaking in his cartoon show and the CDS game or whatever it was. Nobody knew Link to be an obnoxious, spoiled person. They knew him as a determined, trustworthy ally. The same can be said about Samus. Everybody knows her as a hardcore bounty hunter, but now because she speaks everybody is "losing" the hardcore character they've come to know and love.

In my opinion, people need to grow up about the voice actor and just play the game for what it is, a really fun adventure. If they don't like the voice, mute the T.V. She really isn't bad, she's quite good.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: WeirdRaptor on September 04, 2010, 12:37:09 AM
Wait, fans were bashing the voice actress, too? But its Jennifer Hale. She's a class act in the world of voice acting!
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: StarfallRaptor on September 04, 2010, 01:57:02 AM
It seems like with Ridley, she has the "movie Slasher villain" response.  
Namely, the whole "Why are you not dead" thing.  I mean, Ridley was last seen sinking into a lava pool, on fire, and then the planet blew up.  And yet, here he is.  WTF.  
I'dve reacted similarly.  Plus, young Samus is so cute.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: LBTFan13 on September 04, 2010, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: WeirdRaptor,Sep 3 2010 on  11:37 PM
Wait, fans were bashing the voice actress, too? But its Jennifer Hale. She's a class act in the world of voice acting!
People aren't bashing the voice actress persay, they are bashing how Samus' character is viewed vastly different to what fans have her made out to be because of her having a voice with actual dialogue. For a lot of fans, it would be much better if she didn't have any dialogue, that way fans could remember her as the bad*** hero they remember. Now that she actually speaks, the fans don't view her the same.

I think she's a really good voice actress as well, and she does a great job portraying Samus. I think people just like to b**** over the stupidest reasons.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: DarkHououmon on September 04, 2010, 11:37:22 AM
So far, I'm not enjoying Metroid: Other M as much as I thought I would. While part of the reason is the weird controls (going to take me a while to get used to them) the biggest reason why I'm not enjoying it is because my Wii is not recognizing the disc most of the time. And twice when it did, and I went to run the game, it immediately "crashed" and restarted the Wii. I was only able to play it once so far and haven't gotten too far into the game.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: LBTFan13 on September 04, 2010, 12:18:52 PM
How old is your Wii? That might play a factor in it, unless it is only this game that is giving you trouble. Also, check the disc itself and make sure it isn't scratched or anything. I had that happen with my XBOX once. I had just bought a game, I think it was Red Dead Redemption, and it kept crashing. I had bought it new, but I looked at the disc and it was already scratched up.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: DarkHououmon on September 04, 2010, 12:49:40 PM
I already checked the disc and cleaned it multiple times. The only other Wii disc I have that doesn't work as well is Super Smash Brothers Brawl, which is confusing considering it always worked just fine in the past. I'm not sure why the Wii would have a hard time recognizing it now, even though it doesn't even looked scratched.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: LBTFan13 on September 04, 2010, 12:52:56 PM
The only time I can think of where the Wii wouldn't recognize the disc would be if the disc was put in backwards. I'm not saying that's what you are doing, but that's my experience. Otherwise, I would check your Wii out and see if there's anything wrong with it. There might be something internally messed up with it.

But I digress. Metroid Other M is an amazing game that unfortunately is not getting the praise it deserves. Sure, the controls are a bit awkward at first, but when you get used to them they're not that bad. Nintendo took a risk with developing this game with Team Ninja, and I think they did a great job with it.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Littlefoot1616 on September 06, 2010, 05:11:36 AM
I landed Other M Friday just gone and played for about 6hours. Gotta say I'm impressed with what's been done. The translation has been very good. Combat is fast and furious (as I would expect nothing less from Team Ninja), controls are responsive albeit a little awkward at times and the deep dive into a character that has been nearly completely mute up until now is both engaging and interesting. I like the concentration mode although it has taken a few unnecessary deaths to get used to (most pressing is dropping into Morph Ball mode instead of healing). It adds a real sense of tension to try and sneak in a quick heal whilst still in the heat of a fight. So far, my biggest gripe has been when you're force to a spot and have to hunt for a particular clue in order to advance. In a few cases, I've been stuck for nearly 10mins trying to find whatever it is I'm supposed to find before the game will continue only to realise an area I'd combed for the 20th time had only a 3x3 pixel range before the cursor would lock onto it (over exaggerating slightly about the pixel thing but you get the idea  :p)

So far, I've quite enjoyed the idea of Samus talking. I think the voice suits her (if anything maybe a little young but still). She definitely comes across as a much deeper, more troubled character than most thought. The brittle relationship between Samus and Adam gives them both real dimension and is portrayed excellently. Point to note, I'm not 100% sure Jennifer Hale IS the voice for Samus in Other M. I haven't been able to pin down a reliable source as to who the voices are in the game yet but I have my suspicions that it's NOT Jennifer Hale. No source seems to tie her to the role. A shame really coz I reckon she would've been perfect for the job.

Still, thoroughly enjoyable and definitely a keeper for my gaming library!  :D

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the biggest reason why I'm not enjoying it is because my Wii is not recognizing the disc most of the time. And twice when it did, and I went to run the game, it immediately "crashed" and restarted the Wii.

I've had that same problem too. I can't leave the disc in the machine, put it on standby and come back to it later. The Wii doesn't seem to recognise the disc if I leave it in. Even when I put the disc in, it normally crashes first, reboots and I have to try again. Not sure why it does that. I've never had an issue with the Wii before. All the other games work fine. Just Other M seems to upset it.  :unsure:
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Flathead770 on September 06, 2010, 11:52:31 PM
Just got 100% items today and unlocked hard mode...yay? Im actually interested in playing hard mode though since the game gets pretty easy after you get the Screw Attack (like in all games  :lol ), bosses aside. The overall story was really cool and wouldn't have been possible without Samus talking. I wasn't to impressed with the ending of the game though. The plot development got me thinking of how awesome the ending will be, then it just...ends. But there is a hard mode so heres to hoping that theres some true last boss that will make the ending better.

The game also gives you a better reason why Ridley was even in Metroid Fusion as he was randomly frozen in that game. All the throwback bosses of older Metroid games are a cool inclusion as well.

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So far, my biggest gripe has been when you're force to a spot and have to hunt for a particular clue in order to advance. In a few cases, I've been stuck for nearly 10mins trying to find whatever it is I'm supposed to find before the game will continue only to realise an area I'd combed for the 20th time had only a 3x3 pixel range before the cursor would lock onto it (over exaggerating slightly about the pixel thing but you get the idea )
You wouldn't happen to be talking about finding that green blood stain on the green field would you? That took me forever to find, all the other ones weren't as bad. Though i liked doing this for the most part because of how much it adds to the suspense of the game.

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I've had that same problem too. I can't leave the disc in the machine, put it on standby and come back to it later. The Wii doesn't seem to recognise the disc if I leave it in. Even when I put the disc in, it normally crashes first, reboots and I have to try again. Not sure why it does that. I've never had an issue with the Wii before. All the other games work fine. Just Other M seems to upset it.
hmmm, ive never had that problem. So far the game froze once, but other than that, it works perfectly fine.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: pokeplayer984 on September 26, 2010, 12:11:56 AM
My guess, DH, is that you got a bad disc.  The chances of getting one is about the same as winning the lottery.

I have beaten the game.  I'm going to need a freaking guide to collect all the items.  I played it through normally and ended up with a pitiful 38%. (Yeah, go ahead and laugh, I DON'T CARE!!)

And to all the fans complaining about how it destroys your views, here's my one thing to say...

BEFORE THIS GAME, YOU NEVER KNEW HER!!  SHUT UP!!

Seriously, until she was given a voice, as a human, we never knew her.

Anyways, this is a great game.  Epic even!  With a deep and dark story line.

I didn't learn the dodge technique until late in the game when I seriously needed it.  Up until then, it was all dumb luck against the fast enemies.

And no Power Bombs until you land in the Queen's stomach?  Really?  Wow!

A few regrets, but it's still a good game.  Not one that will make Game of the Year, but still good. :)

You did a good job, Team Ninja.  I'm quite impressed. :)
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Littlefoot1616 on September 26, 2010, 04:16:29 AM
I finshed Other M a couple of weeks ago and going through to find "that special something" or whatever it is.

Aside from that, I heard that apparently Other M has a crippling data flaw. When you fight the flying insectoid thingy for the third time and finally beat it in Sector 3, the door you are supposed to advance through remains locked if you run BACK to the previous save room and save the game before moving on. Apparently there is a 50/50 chance that the door to advance through will remain locked and there is no way to get around it. Worse of all, if you've saved you're DOUBLY screwed because now the game is in complete lockdown and you can't move forward and the only thing to do is start over.

By the sounds of things, it doesn't sound like this has happened to anyone on here but thought I'd spread the word just in case it does happen. There's no real explanation for this glitch but plenty of rumours floating around. Here's a vid from Youtube pointing out the problem:

Youtube: Metroid Other M Game Breaking Glitch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QcsueniM8w&feature=related)
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: TheNumberOneShmuck on September 27, 2010, 03:27:43 AM
SPOILERS IN THIS RANT

Special note: I wrote this rant in two parts (not equally long halves, though) First part was written in the early morning, and the second was written the following day. I was pretty sleepy during the writing of the first part, so it probably won't hold up as well as the second part.

Alright, it's time I throw my two cents into this thing, because I have a lot to say. A LOT. It's gonna be a seriously long read, so if you feel up to it, grab some coffee or something. And please, if you're going to respond, make sure you've read the whole thing, as some points may be further re-enforced later on this rant of mine, (and, again, the second part is probably stronger, so if you have a rebuttal for something early on, keep reading and make sure a later point doesn't trounce that rebuttal)

And before I really get started, let me just say that every discussion I've seen concerning this game inevitably had the defenders turning to the haters and making an accusation that the haters just want Samus to be a cold, unfeeling, emotionless, silent robot killer, with no personality of any kind. It's a frustrating thing to see, because the haters almost never even insinuate that that's what they want in Metroid, ever. In fact, many times, they've already made it clear that they don't want that by the time the defenders get desperate. It's a strawman tactic, and it's something that I'm going to ask everyone in this topic not fall into as you read this topic.

First of all, I have to tell you that some of the people in this topic are, simply put, WRONG. I'm talking about the people who said that "We didn't know Samus before this". WRONG. I'm sorry, but did everyone just forget about METROID FUSION?! That angers me. Y'know why? Because everyone here's talking about how Other M's such a great game, and yet you're all conveniently ignoring Fusion, or as I call it, Other M: Good Edition. As far as I'm concerned, it does everything better than Other M, besides graphical and audio quality (technical quality; even with regards to art direction and soundtrack, I found Fusion to be superior). It does Samus's monologues and personality better (and I'll get into that more later on) It features a more compelling portrayal of Adam Malkovich (and that's all through Samus's nostalgia trips and a ship A.I. that doesn't really start acting like Adam until the very end) It tells a Galactic Federation Metroid cloning conspiracy story better.

Since I don't know really where else to go, I'll just jump right into the infamous Ridley scene. Ridley appears, Samus freezes. She freezes so badly, that she actually starts to lose control of her suit. Sorry, but NO. Let me tell you why no. Because she's defeated Ridley before. She defeated Ridley in Metroid/Zero Mission. She defeated Meta Ridley in Prime. She beat him again in Corruption, then killed Omega Ridley later on in that same game. Then she defeated Ridley in Super Metroid. She never, EVER froze in ANY of the other encounters. Oh, and don't give me anything about how this time, it's because she thought he was dead. Though it isn't absolutely certain, Ridley probably died most of the other encounters. Note that I said that Samus killed Omega Ridley. That one was for certain. Because he EXPLODED. That Ridley died without question. But what about the other times? I'd have to say that Ridley dies in Metroid/ZM and Super. It seems like Ridley and Kraid's (and in Super, Phantoon and Draygon's) life forces are tied directly to the entrance to Tourian, since it opens only after you defeat them (and I seem to remember them exploding in those games as well) There's not much reason to assume they aren't dead, and plenty to assume they are.

So why is it that Samus only now suffers from PTSD when Ridley shows up? Even if you assume that Meta Ridley survived in Prime (after the Chozo statues laser him over a cliff) and Corruption (he falls down a reactor core shaft) and that Samus somehow KNOWS he survived, that still leaves him reappearing in Prime and Super without Samus freezing up. The idea that Samus would freeze up at all, even due to PTSD, is irritating, but I think I'll save that for the another paragraph.

Next item: Samus is obsessively submissive, to the point of reckless stupidity in this game. Yes, I'm going there. And I have good reason. Back to Fusion for a brief moment, one thing that Samus mentions in that game is that she doesn't like taking orders, and she's only served under Adam before this (that's important to remember, because if his command was all it took to make her decide that, and she LIKED him, then it means him being in command on the Bottle Ship, as opposed to any other person, doesn't change a thing when considering the following) Now, she does work with the Galactic Federation at points in the series, but she's a bounty hunter, so it can be assumed that they're paying her for it. Plus, it seems like they're not particularly restrictive with their assignments. Go here, secure this, talk to that person for information on those, and be sure to destroy that on your way out. Not much of "don't use weapon X" or "try not to step on creature Y", or anything else that might be expected were she actually serving in the GF officially.

Now, in Other M, she isn't officially working under Adam. She's not under any orders to do anything. And yet, she voluntarily de-activates almost every single piece of tech in her suit until each one is authorized, and agrees to follow his command. Now, I want you to really think about this. In Fusion, Samus describes her relationship with Adam as one of mutual respect. There's nothing to indicate that she'd be obsessed with the guy. And yet, here she is, agreeing to follow his every order - even though she doesn't like taking orders and doesn't have to - and de-activating everthing. Including her ARMOR UPGRADES. She literally endangers her own life by volunteering to take orders, which she doesn't like to, and stubbornly not activating gear which DOES NOTHING BUT PROTECT HER FROM HARM, all because the guy she was serving under when she decided she didn't like taking orders tells hasn't specifically told her to protect herself yet. It's literally a life-threatening stroke of stupidity which goes against her established character traits. There is EVERYTHING wrong with it. And I've seen this poorly defended with "it's just a way to weave the item collection into the narrative". That's no excuse. At all. In fact, it justifies the focus it's gotten. They wanted it tied into the narrative? Fine. Now they have to deal with the consequences of doing so. It's open to criticism for being poorly handled now, just the same Prime's reason for Samus losing her powers caught crap. "An explosion in a hallway flung her against a wall, and that caused her suit's features to malfunction? Then why didn't it malfunction during that fight with the aerotroopers, where you got hit with, like, 20 missiles?" Don't want the criticism? Then do it right.. That's why criticism exists, to make sure you know what to do (or, at least, what NOT to do) next time.

Another thing is that Adam comes across as a jerkass because of this. Like, why wouldn't he immediately check all of Samus's suit upgrades, and choose which ones were authorized, and which weren't? And c'mon, I get why he wouldn't authorize Super Missiles, Power Bombs, the Plasma Beam, and the Screw attack. Those are very dangerous weapons, and should only be used when absolutely called for. Even the lesser weapons are still pretty dangerous, and maybe Adam didn't feel like he could really trust Samus with them at first (and even if that was the case, it clearly became apparent to him at some point that she was trustworthy, he could have done it then; and even if she wasn't, not authorizing stuff would become irrelevant in a scenario where she goes rogue, because she's still ultimately in control of which upgrades are active, giving Adam even less reason to withhold authorization of most of her equipment)

But really, why didn't he just immediately authorize the Varia Suit, Gravity Suit, and Space Jump? After all, those functions do exactly the following, in order: adds extra protection and shields the user from extreme temperatures and acid; adds even more protection, and allows free movement underwater and in areas with non-Earth-standard gravity; allows for greater mobility by way of a near-infinite amount of midair jumps. That's it. There's no apparent risk factor involved with allowing the use of those upgrades, so Adam just looks like an ass for making her less able to defend herself and move around in battle. In fact, why did Samus volunteer Adam authority on those upgrades alongside her weapons in the first place? Weapons are one thing, but why the armor and mobility upgrades? It makes even less sense as we go along here.

Then there's probably the shining example of cutscene convenience making Samus a delicate little flower: Adam shooting Samus in the back as she approaches Sector 0. One shot. Just the one. And apparently, in spite of the tremendous ass-kickings Samus is able to bear througout the series, and still come back swingin', this one shot hits her so hard that she is knocked unconcious, and when she comes too, she's so weakened that she can't re-activate her suit, or walk without stumbling around. Oh, and this is also the scene where Adam sacrifices himself by going into Sector 0 and wreaking enough havoc to cause the area to detach and self-destruct with him in it. Let me ask... did this guy forget to bring explosives of any kind? I remember at the beginning, they couldn't open the locked door, and said they didn't want to use explosives because the uncontained blast might cause unwanted damage to the ship around them. Well, that's exactly what he wants in this situation. Was he not carrying any? Did he give them all to Maurice or something? Did he have some, but ran out as he was exploring the ship? Speaking of ships, was it not possible to take the GF ship or ask Samus to use her gunship and go on a bombing run? Did the damage have to be internal to cause Sector 0 to detach? Christ, the story does so much damage to these characters' intelligence and integrity, is it really that difficult to see how everyone could be so upset over it? It's not a good thing when even a moment of thought can devalue a character's scarifice so much.

One seemingly minor, yet still relevant thing, is Adam calling Samus "Lady". In Fusion, Samus recalls that Adam would call her "Lady", and that if it were anyone else, she'd have found it condescending, but Adam knew how to say it in such a way that it sounded dignified. That says something about Samus and Adam, and their relationship. In Other M, however, Samus comments that she didn't mind Adam saying "Any objections, lady?" at the end of each mission briefing, because "I was glad he went with something delicate." UGH. So we've gone from dignified to delicate. That reflects so poorly on the both of them, and yet people STILL ignore how much better Fusion told its story and fleshed out its characters. Infuriating.

Okay, now with regards to everything about Samus's perceived vulnerability, be it emotional, mental, or physical, let me just remind you of Samus's past. This is a past where she has defeated or killed Ridley at least 6 different times (Ridley in Metroid/Zero mission, Mecha Ridley at the end of ZM, Meta Ridley in Prime, Meta Ridley in Corruption, Omega Ridley in Corruption, Ridley in Super) This is a past where she defeated Metroid Prime, then defeated it again and again as Dark Samus. This is a past where she brought down Kraid and Mother Brain on two seperate occasions each. Where she killed Phantoon and Draygon. The Emporer Ing. The Omega Pirate. Quadraxis. Countless hordes of Space Pirates, even on their own acid rain-drenched planet. Numerous rival bounty hunters. Omega Metroids. A Metroid Queen. After all that, for anything to strike such an insane level of fear in her (the amount is critical here, don't ignore it) as Ridley did, and for one single shot from a GF weapon to knock her out and temporarily render her completely defenseless even after she comes to is such a departure from everything we've seen in the past, such a betrayal of who she's been ESTABLISHED as (not just from fan perception, this is actual portayal we're talking about here) that I'm left wondering why they didn't just alter the story so that this was one of Samus's first missions after departing from the GF. That would have made it the first time she encountered Ridley after he killed her family, making the PTSD thing infinitely more believable. It would have eliminated the stupid authorization gimmick, sparing her from looking stupid and sparing Adam from looking like an ass. It would have maybe even made it a little bit plausible for Adam to do the kind of damage he did with that shot, if she wasn't using her power suit to its fullest potential, or didn't have access to the Varia and Gravity armor upgrades. Or, hell, reboot the series. Anything. But don't even try telling me that this is the same Samus. There's FAR too big a contrast between Other M's Samus and the Samus from the ENTIRE REST OF THE SERIES to swallow all of this at once.

But this past isn't just one of her exploits in the games. This is one where it becomes apparent that she can't be judged in many respects by the same standards as typical humans. This is where the PTSD thing loses power. This is where Samus's completely voluntary submission of authority to Adam with regards to her Varia and Gravity suits and to her Space jump goes from dumb to absurd. This is where I point out the fact that Samus was RAISED TO BE A WARRIOR SINCE CHILDHOOD BY THE CHOZO. She was even infused with their DNA in order to become tougher, at the tender age of 3. She also served in the GF military after her Chozo training ended. She's a space warrior. She IS an intergalactic badass. She is athletic, efficient in battle, and has access to to an amazing power suit. This is not down to fan perception. These are cold, hard facts about her. Taking all of that into account, it becomes fair to expect Samus to be tougher, more capable, and more mentally stable than a real-world human soldier. The PTSD excuse might make sense, but not nearly as much when you consider all the mental toughening Samus no doubt went through during her life with the Chozo and serving in the GF military.

And this is right about the point that the Metroid manga comes up. Alright, let's play. So, Samus freezes upon encountering Ridley for the first time since he and the Space Pirates attacked and her parents died. In fact, posttraumatic stress disorder is specifically mentioned here by one of the onlookers. So, the manga is fair game here, right? Okay, so let's talk further about what canonizing the manga means for Other M. First, right back to Ridley. Samus freezes during that first encounter, and he beats the crap out of her. What happens the next time they meet? Why, that would be the re-telling of the events in Metroid/Zero Mission. Ridley appears, and Samus does indeed hesitate in apparent fear. However, two things stand out at this point. First, she's nowhere near as frightened as the first time (the first time, she loses her head and begs to be shot dead before Ridley can tear her to pieces; the second time, she basically stares him down for a moment, feeling intimidated) second, she snaps out of it in only a few seconds. This supports my belief that Samus is mentally and emotionally tougher than Other M gives her credit for. Now, some have said that PTSD is not something that you can just "get over". This might be true for a human in the real world, but as I've said, Samus is above and beyond that. She's grown mentally tougher since the previous encounter with Ridley. Not only CAN she get over PTSD, but she DID. It's in the manga. Her experience in the face of danger allows her to mature constantly, to the point where even her mental troubles are diminished.

This second encounter with Ridley also brings me back to the argument of Samus being more afraid of the fact that Ridley seemingly returned from the dead than Ridley himself. Well, guess what happens in this scene? Samus kills Ridley. Yeah, that thing where I said that Ridley probably died in Metroid/ZM? Yeah, the manga says he absolutely did. What does that mean? Well, it means that Meta Ridley's appearance in Prime was the first time that Ridley appeared to come back from the dead. This also means that his appearance in Super Metroid, after Omega Ridley was killed in Corruption, is at the very least the second time that Ridley seemed to come back from the dead (and remember, that's assuming that Samus knew that Meta Ridley survived the Chozo statues in Prime and the plunge down the reactor core shaft in Corruption). That also means, of course, that Ridley's appearence in Other M was at least the third time Samus got the impression that he came back from the dead. The third time. And if Samus made such improvements when it came to just Ridley himself after only one real PTSD freakout, then there's no reason to doubt that she could get over her fear of his apparent ability to resurrect constantly after it happened twice already, and she quickly took care of him both times. At the very least, she wouldn't have reacted NEARLY as badly as Other M wants us to believe. Regretting bringing the manga into this yet?

Because we're not done. There's also the matter of Adam Malkovich. Specifically, the fact that Adam and Samus are shown interacting after Samus has left the GF and become a bounty hunter. There's no bad blood here. There's nothing to indicate that the cold reception at the beginning of Other M was caused by anything other than his desire to find out whether the GF went through with the Metroid cloning program, and if so, sabotage it and destroy all traces of it, without Samus finding out. In fact, you know that scene where Adam refuses to help save his brother from a dangerous situation, because it would endanger the lives of everyone around him if they did anything other than retreat from the imminent explosion? Well, manga Adam seems to go against Other M Adam during the events of Metroid/ZM. They know Samus has gone to Zebes alone to take care of the Space Pirates, and a fleet under Adam's command is engaged in battle with some pirates elsewhere. The pirates, in spite of having the upper hand, prepare to warp back to Zebes. Adam realizes that this spells big trouble for Samus, and orders his fleet to go after them. His navigator informs him that this would be a monumental challenge after the damage they've taken, and Adam tells him he doesn't want to hear it, and thinks to himself "Samus... I won't let you die!" So the same Adam who let his brother die so as to not risk the lives of those around him also ordered those around him later to risk their lives so that Samus wouldn't die? And then this same guy, who was last seen on good terms with Samus, didn't immediately authorize the use of her Varia and Gravity suits, Space Jump, Grapple Beam, and basic weapons like regular Morph Bombs, Missiles, and the Ice Beam? Yeah, okay. Sure. I'm guessing those of you who didn't support involving the manga in this are relieved it's not being used against you so well. Those of you who did... well, I can't imagine you being too happy about this.

In summary: Samus is out-of-character, obsessed with Adam in spite of never indicating such a thing in previous works, she makes stupid decisions, the cutscenes have no problem making her weak for the sake of convenience, Adam is an ass, Adam is an idiot, Adam is just as out-of-character here as Samus is, Adam's noble sacrifice loses a lot of dramatic power when thought about at all, the PTSD theory doesn't hold as much water as you'd like it to, and the manga might very well be Other M's worst enemy, rather than its best friend.

Now, what do I think about Samus being given a more definite character in the Metroid series? I think that would be great. If they did it right. The point of this is that Other M really went for a story, failed at it, and now the creators have to face the criticisms of the fans. Once again, I have to mention Fusion. Fusion featured Samus monologuing too, but she wasn't nearly as wordy as the motormouth in Other M, nor is she as redundant (Other M Samus is constantly talking about things we already know, be it memories of previous games, or plot details that have already been made apparent) She also gets the character development that people say she hasn't gotten yet (again, an infuriating thing to say when such a great game as Fusion exists) and does it in a way that gives her emotions, details her relationship with Adam, gives insight into her personality, and shows that she's not a robot, all without destroying her established image of being the most badass female in all of gaming. Other M Samus and robot Samus are opposite extremes, and I don't really like the idea of either one. Fusion Samus is neither, and the relative shortness and linearity of the game, compared to other Metroids, can be forgiven because it does the story and the character of Samus well.

So please, once again, nothing about wanting a robot. I don't want a robot. I just also don't want Other M's Samus. They both suck. The first Metroid is allowed to get away with it, due to hardware limitations. And from then on, even as early as Metroid II, we're given at least glimpses of character, and even possibly of vulnerability. And that'something else. Apart from not wanting Samus to be a robot, I don't need her to be completely invincible. Let me give two examples from the Metroid Prime Trilogy that I liked. At the end of Prime, Samus removes her helmet observes the wreckage of the ancient Chozo Temple. Now, as she was raised by the Chozo, it's not difficult to see a look on Samus's face indicating that she thinks what a pity it is, to see the ancient remains of the once-great Chozo people's efforts, crumbled and burning. An indication that she appreciates Chozo architecture, that she harbors a nostalgic fondness for their culture. Now, that is just how I interpreted it, but that's kinda the point. It's an indication of how I see Samus, an indication that I'm not coming from a shallow perspective with my complaints about Other M.

Another moment is from Corruption, this one about how I don't have a problem with Samus still being afraid. I just don't like how far the Ridley scene in Other M went with that fear. In Corruption, Samus enters the Pirate homeworld's Leviathan Seed, to destroy it. When she enters the core, Omega Ridley swoops overhead, then lands. He stomps towards her, Samus backing up as he approaches, then Ridley tries to bite her. Samus leaps out of the way, going into Morph Ball mode, circles around Ridley, unmorphs, then aims her arm cannon at him, and the two stare each other down for a moment, Ridley roaring menacingly, before the fight begins. Now, maybe it's just me, but I saw that backing up, and the staredown after the unmorph, those moments of hesitation, of non-aggression, as Samus showing some fear. And not only did I not mind, but I found it made sense. After all, this is Omega Ridley we're talking about. It's not just Ridley, it's Ridley with his Meta-Ridley cybernetic enhancements, made even more dangerous by a healthy dose of Phazon radiation. This is pretty blatantly the most dangerous incarnation of Ridley we've ever seen, and even regular Ridley is pretty badass. And really, it's easy to see in-canon Ridley/Samus confrontations always bringing Samus close to death in one way or another. Like I said, it's the level of fear that Samus experiences in Other M that makes me shake my head. If they had toned it down (and really, I can't see any reason why they didn't; if they wanted Anthony to get knocked over the edge of the platform that badly, the could have had Ridley ambush them or something) then I wouldn't have minded. Even after Super Metroid, and my belief that Samus is mentally tougher than real-world humans, I could still buy her being at least a little afraid of Ridley if she explained that she had almost died every time they squared off. But there's none of that, and she experiences a freakout the likes of which we've only seen before when she was much younger in the manga (and I've already explained why bringing the manga in only does Other M further disservice)

Speaking of Anthony, he's something I actually liked out of the game. Heroic, cool ("You got no style!") has a giant gun, and is probably the only voice actor I actually liked. In fact, let me talk about other things I liked, just to take a break from complaining. I liked the dodge and finisher system. Very flashy, and added some cool to in-game Samus. I'm also impressed that the NES-style Wiimote setup worked as well as it did, although I still think that a Wiimote/Nunchuck setup would have worked better. The graphics, of course, are great for the Wii, and the effects, especially when it comes to the holographic illusion that are the creature habitats of the space stations, and what happens when you mess with it (shooting the backdrops, graphical glitches in the hologram, etc.) are very pretty. I like that Ridley's empty husk after the Queen attacks him sets up his appearance in Fusion, nice detail, that. I also liked how frequent boss battles were. Kept the action going nicely. Phantoon was an especially excellent and memorable fight. I didn't mind the concentration move, either. Overall, the game really is fun, although not close to the lofty standards set by Super and the Prime Trilogy. Fusion and Zero Mission were also better. Still, this one was fun enough that, although I had big issues with the story and characterization, I still enjoyed the actual game, and am glad I got it. On a scale of 1-10, 5 being average, my enjoyment rating is a 7.8. It's just a sad thought that the game with the most story, character, cutscenes, and talking, is also the one where I pay attention to the gameplay over everything else the most (except the original Metroid)

I'm not quite done with the game just yet though, I have a few more things to say. Next subject is the Deleter. Specifically, the fact that, not only is it never really resolved, but it's basically just dropped completely. Like they forget about it. Now, there are a couple of clues to tell you who it was (as if it wasn't immediately obvious just from looking at the squad members' faces and figuring out that way) but it's just the fact that the whole subplot just whimpers and dies in a corner while you're not looking. It also brings to mind the fact that Adam and Anthony are the only squad members who get any character development. Feels like kind of a waste, to have all these guys, and not even try to do anything with most of them besides have them there so that the one guy, who also gets no characterization besides being the assasin (and you can't attach that to him without knowing which one it is, although that's easy enough to do) can kill them all (again, for a subplot that eventually fades away quietly)

Then there's the voice acting. Actually, most of the voice acting was middle-of-the-road and forgettable, with two exceptions, one better and one worse. The one I actually liked, as I said, is Anthony. He delivers his lines well, and I came to like him enough to hope that he shows up in a future game. The one I didn't like was Samus. Let me say right now how amusingly sad it is that the most emotional Samus in the series (again, emotional to a fault) is also far more robotic sounding than anyone expected her to be. Just one more thing that puts a damper on the accusation of Other M's haters wanting a robot, when one of the things they complain about is Samus sounding like a robot. By the way, Jessica Martin was Samus's VA in Other M, not Jennifer Hale.

Oh, and mentioning the VA, I HAVE to mention the dialogue. Many people like to complain about the VA, but they ignore the fact that, even if they had the best voice actors in the world at the top of their game, the dialogue and monologues are so unnaturally written that it would still suck. Robot Samus aside, "The word he so obviously chose, 'outsider', pierced my heart." is a line which could never NOT sound stupid and pretentious, ever. Yech.

Well, I think I've finally run out of steam. In closing, let me just say that I complain to make known all the issues with the game, and how it relates to the rest of the series, specifically so that more effort is put into the story and characterization in future Metroid games. Constructive criticism is something that should never be unwelcome, and I spent plenty of time and effort making sure that all of my points were valid, well-explained, and constructive. I don't seek to get anyone hating the game, but I do seek to make it known that it has very real issues which are worth analyzing and  worth addressing.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: LBTFan13 on September 27, 2010, 08:51:31 AM
With all due respect TheNumberOneSchmuck, that first paragraph in your rant was exceptionally rude. Yes, I understand that you have gripes about the game and that you don't agree with some of our opinions, but that gives you no excuse to attack all of us like that? If you knew you couldn't post without acting that way, then you shouldn't have posted at all. I know this sounds rude, and I sincerely apologize for it, but I couldn't read your rant and take it seriously because all it came off to me was bitching (and please excuse my language). Because of that attack in the first paragraph, I could not and did not focus on what you had to say.

Now there are plenty of things in your rant that I do not agree with, but at the moment I do not have the time to post it, and I also want to avoid the possibility of an argument spiraling out of control. The point is that we are all entitled to our own opinions. To attack everybody in this topic because you don't agree with what we had to say is completely and entirely wrong and unfair.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: TheNumberOneShmuck on September 27, 2010, 09:33:09 AM
Quote from: LBTFan13,Sep 27 2010 on  05:51 AM
With all due respect TheNumberOneSchmuck, that first paragraph in your rant was exceptionally rude.
I know. That's why I said that it was rude.

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Yes, I understand that you have gripes about the game and that you don't agree with some of our opinions, but that gives you no excuse to attack all of us like that? If you knew you couldn't post without acting that way, then you shouldn't have posted at all.
Meh. I just really felt the need to get that out there. As I said, I just felt like it would be dishonest, really a betrayal of myself, if I didn't throw it out there. By the way, no, that wasn't enough of a reason not to post my monstrous rant. It's just enough of a reason I should be considered an unpleasant goon, to be treated poorly and laughed at.

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I know this sounds rude, and I sincerely apologize for it
I'd be a monumental hypocrite if I were to call you out for that. No worries.

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but I couldn't read your rant and take it seriously because all it came off to me was bitching (and please excuse my language)
So go back and try reading it again (if you can manage without falling asleep in the middle... friggin' endless babble if mine...) and disregard it as me letting off steam. I harbor no ill feeling towards you or anyone else on this good forum. 'Cept that TheNumberOneShmuck guy. He's a real douche. He should be banned for being such a raging toolbox and contributing nothing of value, that worthless boob.

...

...Wait.

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Because of that attack in the first paragraph, I could not and did not focus on what you had to say.
Give it another shot. I do apologize for the "SHUT UP" thing. Like I said at the beginning of the rant, I wrote the first third or so early in the morning (as in, like, 4am) so I was probably cranky at the time. Don't take it personally, I was just getting it off of my chest.

Honestly, I did put a lot of time and effort into that rant, and  I think one of the worst things that could happen is for the whole thing to just be disregarded as tripe, without being really read.

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Now there are plenty of things in your rant that I do not agree with, but at the moment I do not have the time to post it
Like I said in the intro to that rant, I'd rather you not respond at all unless you take the time to read the whole thing, just in case something later on addresses your rebuttals. It's a tall task, to be sure, but still.

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and I also want to avoid the possibility of an argument spiraling out of control.
You don't have to worry about that with my. Contrary to what my little outburst at the very beginning may have lead you to believe, I actually really like thought-out, level-headed, back-and-forth debates. As long as my points aren't simply waved off without proper justification. That's annoying. But if that happens, I just end the debate and go away before I really go off.

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The point is that we are all entitled to our own opinions. To attack everybody in this topic because you don't agree with what we had to say is completely and entirely wrong and unfair.
Actually, I have to point something out here. I wasn't attacking anyone's opinion. I was angry because people - and not just on TGoF, I'm talking all over the internet - were saying that none of the Metroid games developed Samus's character before Other M, which is factually incorrect. I don't begrudge anyone for their opinions, but such a fallacy constantly being shoved in my face, combined with my previously mention lack of sleep, combined to create that little ugly moment. And it was restricted to the beginning. The rest is well thought-out, if I do say so myself, and pure analysis of the game. Unless I typed something else that I don't remember during my sleep-deprived ramblings in the first half.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: TheNumberOneShmuck on September 27, 2010, 09:39:59 AM
I've edited that part of my rant to be less crappy, by the way. I apologize if I put anyone off with that.

Now read my unreasonably monolithic rant! >:|
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: DarkHououmon on September 27, 2010, 09:57:09 AM
While I still haven't played more of the game (I'm waiting for it to arrive from GameFly) there are some complaints I've heard that I would like to counter based on what I know of the Metroid franchise. I've read the manga. I've played all Metroid games except Metroid Prime Hunters and Metroid Prime Pinball, and of the games I've played, the only one I haven't beaten yet is of course Metroid: Other M. So yes I know what I'm talking about.


Okay here's each complaint and my rebuttal for each of them.


1. Why does Samus need to take orders when she isn't with the Galactic Federation?

A: Well what about Metroid Prime 3? As I recall, Samus was a bounty hunter in this game, and as the first game showed, she was acting on her own, not taking orders from the GF. However in Metroid Prime 3, taking place after both 1 and 2 obviously, we see her interact with the GF and take orders from them.

Metroid Prime 3 showed us that Samus is capable of working with others and taking orders from the GF despite being a bounty hunter and usually going off on her own. Metroid: Other M cements this fact even more. While it is true Samus usually does her own thing, she is not incapable of taking orders if she feels it's beneficial for the mission. Her taking orders from Adam does not make her any less of a bounty hunter than she is.

I should also point out Metroid Fusion. This takes place at the end of the Metroid timeline (currently) and again Samus is still a bounty hunter. But throughout the entire game, she is taking orders from the GF, a GF computer to be exact. She is told where to go and when, and when she gets her weapons depends on what the GF wants usually, similar to how Samus's weapon activation is dependent on a GF officer, Adam. And also, keep in mind the computer was technically Adam, or at least his mind. So it's not like gamers had never experienced a game where Samus took orders from Adam. Sure she was more defiant in Metroid Fusion, but keep in mind she was talking with a computer, not another human.

2. Why is Samus whiny?

A: While I have not played the entire game myself, the parts I did play, Samus never once came across as "whiny". I tried asking a friend of mine who has beaten the game himself and he couldn't understand what people were talking about either. If people mean she's just too talkative, then yes I agree. I'm not really that bothered she talks a lot in Metroid: Other M, but I can see where that can get annoying. Still, I find the talkative scenes to be interesting because it shows more of Samus's past and personality.

3. Samus worships the ground Adam walks on.

A: Not really, based on what I've seen of the game. Samus doesn't worship Adam nor did she ever act that way from what I've seen in the game, as well as the manga where Adam also appeared, and she never came across that way to me in Metroid Fusion.

Instead, she respects him. From what I recall, Adam treated Samus as a soldier and valued her opinion, and never treated her differently because she was a woman, and because of this Samus respects him. As she mentions in Other M, she regards him as a father figure. This doesn't mean she worships him, however. To me, all it means is that she, in a way, likes him and respects what he has to say. I would even say she may have been a little close to Adam since his comment on her being an outsider bothered her.

However despite her respect for him, this does not mean she is always willing to go along with what he says. In the manga, as I remember, she goes against his wishes and heads to Zebes I believe. She even goes as far as turn her cannon arm on him as if she's going to shoot him, and tells him he isn't going to stop her. Adam does give in and allows her to leave. This scene may have strengthened what respect she had for him even more; I believe she was a little surprised he let her go.

4. Samus breaks down at the sight of enemies.

A: Just because she is a space bounty hunter doesn't mean she doesn't have emotions and it doesn't mean she doesn't break down every once in a while. She had lost her parents when she was only a few years old because of Ridley, nearly got killed because of Ridley, watched Zebes, the planet she grew up on, blow up, she watched a Chozo settlement blow up, she was nearly killed by Mother Brain, narrowly escaped being blown up herself, watched a baby sacrifice itself for her, fought against Dark Samus, narrowly escaped Dark Aether, among anything else I may have forgotten. She has been through quite a lot and I feel she has every right to break down once in a while.

But from what I've been told from a friend who has beaten the game, the only time Samus actually does react that way to any enemy in Other M is Ridley, and, thinking about it, it makes perfect sense.

First off, this isn't the first time she did this around Ridley. She did it one time before, in the manga. When she first encountered him again after so many years (first time she encountered him as a young adult), she was frightened and was easily defeated by Ridley. She didn't even fight back. This was because she saw him as her family's murderer and remembered what happened the last time she encountered him. In Other M, I believe this is only part of the reason she acted like that. Yes, in the clip I watched, she did "regress into a child", which to me signaled she remembered what Ridley did to her in the past, and perhaps the scenery reminded her of how things were when Ridley first showed up years ago.

The other thing I want to point out is what happened just prior to this game. Samus had defeated Ridley while on Zebes and, from what I can make out, he fell into lava and got burned up. While I believe the same thing happened in Metroid and Metroid: Zero Mission, there is one thing that makes this instance different than the others. In the others, only one section of the planet was destroyed. But at the end of Super Metroid, the entire planet was blown up and there was no signs that anyone other than Samus and the couple of animals escaped alive. So when Samus sees Ridley again in Other M, she is of course going to be shocked that he's still alive, as she would have believed he was dead for good.

I feel that is a reasonable reaction for anyone who had, for likely years, believed someone (such as an enemy) was dead, believed there was no way they could have survived, only for that enemy to suddenly appear later on.

5. Why can't Samus activate her weapons when she wants to?

A: In the other Metroid games, Samus was the only person in the area. In Metroid Prime 3, in the areas where there were people, it was built out of really strong material that would have prevented too much damage. Samus is not the type of person who will attack unprovoked, and she definitely isn't interested in harming a member of her own species either. In the other games, Samus is alone and so she doesn't need to worry about harming another person. In Metroid Prime 3, due to the strength of the metal the base was made out of, she had less of a chance of accidentally hurting another person.

But things are a bit different in Metroid: Other M. Here, in order to survive, she works with a group of GF soldiers. She knows they are on board and, as Adam pointed out, her power bombs could kill them. Samus does not want to risk causing tension among the people she's with or cause any trouble (such as blowing up something she should not have or, worse, killing someone) and thus why she only uses a type of weapon when Adam gives the okay.




That's all I have to say for now. When I finally get to play Metroid: Other M and beat it, if, by any chance, I change my mind about something, I'll make a post about it.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: pokeplayer984 on September 27, 2010, 10:24:08 AM
Thank you, DH!  Thank you!  You said pretty much everything I was going to say.

Of course, I'm someone who has actually played the game and trust me, it'll only reinforce your views.

I like to think of the narrative as a sort of diary.  The past tense way of telling everything only enforces the belief.

On a side note though, I have to agree that the game is short and feels like a bit of a rip-off on the price side, but I'll just give it the benefit of the doubt because it's just so good.  It only took me so long to beat it due to time restraints of how much time I had to play it and how I had to get used to the new dodge mechanic.  If I didn't have these problems, I'd probably have it done in about a day.  Yeah, definitely on the short side.

Oh, and BTW, to the people still ranting how her personality is a bad thing, it made her a 3-dimensional character, and THAT is NEVER a bad thing.

Thank you.  Now if you don't mind, I need to get back to my Gameboy Let's Play. -_-
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: TheNumberOneShmuck on September 27, 2010, 06:57:38 PM
I'm sorry, DarkHououmon, but I have to ask,.. did you read my rant? Because it addresses and rebuts your points. It's a long one, but I'd rather you not just ignore it like that. I put a lot of thought and time into it, and I do take it personally when you post without regarding it, which your post indicates. Especially the manga. One of the biggest things in my rant was how much more damage the manga does to Other M than it does good.

Please read it.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Truttle on October 03, 2010, 06:18:30 PM
I’ve read your entire rant, all of it. So now I’m going to share my rebuttal. I’ll admit that everyone makes mistakes, even videogame companies. So I’m not going to debate that Other M is perfection. But I will argue against a few opinions you stated.

First of all, I want to state that your opinions, while reasonable and understandable, are really only your opinion. So it’s really just conjecture that you state. I’m sure you won’t deny that and I’m not saying that you are. It’s just a bit much that your rant came off as that. You made many claims and stated them as if they were law and irrefutable.

First, I’ll discuss the issue of her reaction to seeing Ridley. You state that her reaction was unprecedented because she has faced him before on numerous occasions and in numerous forms and never flinched. Well, first off, we all know that the canon of the manga wasn’t inserted until much later. And second you have to understand that the creators only had so much they could work with. Almost all metroid games are 2D games with a small amount of frames to work with. I’m pretty sure the creators didn’t feel like wasting their time with having Samus show large amounts of reactions and stances. Now you’ll probably debate that they could have shown that in Prime, and Echoes and that they did show her react in corruption and in Fusion. Well if you mean that little eye bulge when she finds out that Adam is in the computer well, that’s pretty much all we get. I don’t think the creators want to show a second eye bulge when she meets Ridley or anything else. You can just chock that up to “They didn’t feel like it” they probably felt it was pointless an unnecessary as to save more time on gameplay. And as for Prime and Echoes, I blame it on the software limitations. It was designed for the Gamecube, we see very little from Samus as it’s entirely in first person, barely much of her face, and there are so many scan items, hell, she never even utters a word and the endings are so bland that I’m pretty sure that’s all they could squeeze into it. Now in corruption maybe it’s a little different. They have much more software to work with since it’s now on the Wii. They offered many interactable features to let the player feel more like they’re in Samus’s boots. You can push and pull levers, and even navigate your ship with motions using the wiimote. So for the first time, we see her reaction to seeing Ridley, as you stated, she does get scared, just because her duration of fear is different, it doesn’t matter, she can get scared. I know it’s not quite enough to support my argument, but as long as it’s with Ridley and she gets scared is all I can give. Now, onto other M. You stated that because of her “brief” service with the Galactic Federation and being raised by the Chozo should have molded her into a hardened killing machine. I don’t think so. The chozo are a technological race, and not fully warbound to always want to battle. They gave Samus chozo DNA that helped make her stronger and more athletic in order to merge the Power Suit to her. They saw a potential in her to be a savior. Besides, even if she had a lot of experience, even Rambo broke down and started crying at the end of the movie, so you can’t tell us that her PTSD can just go away. Besides, that didn’t stop her from finding her courage afterward and proceeding to kick Ridley’s butt with a fury.

Now let’s talk about her power suit. It seems that you’re under the assumption that it’s made out of some sort of impenetrable diamond hard substance. It’s been shown many times and even within the games such as the Prime series, that her suit is not a ceramic suit of armor, it’s not a robotic hollow suit that she can slip in and out of like clothes. It’s a biological organic exoskeleton. Fusion even states that it’s so integrated into her biological system that removing too much of it would be fatal. Her suit is flexible and even has joints. That’s why she’s been infected on several occasions. By Dark Samus and by the X. In fact, her suit itself is not what protects her from death, it’s some sort of unseen energy field that the suit produces, perhaps within the suit. That’s why you collect energy tanks in the game to extend the shield’s duration. The very fact that an enemy can bump into her and make her grunt with pain from the injury shows that she feels pain through the suit. I’m not talking about a lazer beam, or acid, but a mere bump! She feels the cold, and she feels the heat, it’s like a skin to her. So it’s completely understandable that when Ridley grabs her and is crushing her (You’ll notice that this is when her suit fades) that her suit starts to falter, her pain is causing her to lose her mental focus which must be deactivating the suit. We’ve seen multiple times that she removes the suit without so much as touching a button or speaking some sort of activation code. So I believe the suit is activated mentally. So when Adam shoots her spine, I think that’s enough of a shock to her system to also deactivate her suit, afterall, she falls unconscious. We’ve seen her suit fall apart even in Super Metroid so this shouldn’t be such a surprise.

Now about how Fusion is better at emotions than Other M. Seriously? This response will be pretty short. All we get is a momentary outburst of anger towards the computer and an eye bulge when she finds out the computer is Adam. The rest is all text. You can’t show much emotion through text.

Now onto the “Following orders” problem. On Adam’s part, I am under the assumption that Adam was the deleter. I know I have no way to prove this since the game never reveals it, but this is my guess, think about it for a second, the galactic federation wanted to preserve their biological weapons. The metroid’s that were genetically enhanced to resist being frozen. I believe since adam was secretly trying to destroy the metroids he had to stop anyone from preventing his mission. I think the other members he dispatched were part of that retrieval unit. Since the beginning, he knew his mission was suicide, the only way to disconnect section zero was from inside, there’s no way out after that. Knowing that Samus was the only one strong enough to save the universe, he made that sacrifice and chose her over himself. So I’m assuming that the reason Adam had restricted her suit’s features was to keep her from reaching the location, to slow her progress. Now as for her following his orders blindly. Besides the fact that she trusts him so strongly, how many times has she done something “Stupid” as you claim? Many times! She goes to planet SR388 to eradicate EVER SINGLE METROID except one!? “Hmm…this one’s cute! I’ll call it spot!” Her act was illegal as stated by the general at the end of Other M, plus the fact that it caused all kinds of hell in Super Metroid. And the fact that she fights herds of giant monsters, dives into pools of lava relying on the guess that her varia suit “MIGHT” protect her from the heat. (She doesn’t know until she tries. Who else would willingly do that?) Does that seem rational to you? You’re just going to have to get used to the idea that she followed orders because she wants to.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: DarkHououmon on October 03, 2010, 06:23:58 PM
Personally I find it hard to believe that the emotions in Metroid Fusion were better than in Metroid: Other M. Don't you mean "lack of emotion"? As Truttle pointed out, the only time she does show what can be interpreted as genuine emotion is during one scene (where she argues with the computer and shows shock). Other than that, it's simply her talking. That's not really emotion. It's just text. She was just explaining what was going on. That isn't the same as showing emotion.

Oh I forgot to point something else out. Judging from what I read in your post, NumberOne, I don't know if you truly understand what PTSD can do or understand who the Chozo are completely.

First off, PTSD is not easily gotten over. Just ask any soldier suffering from it. It can last for a very long time and still effect people even many years later. It's not like some scratch or minor wound like that. PTSD is the result of experiencing something extremely traumatic, and in Samus's case, that extremely traumatic event was the Space Pirate assault that killed her entire family and nearly getting killed by Ridley. I seriously doubt something that severe is going to be easily gotten over with training. Training would only make Samus physically stronger; it is not going to erase the painful memories. They're engraved in her mind.

And secondly, the Chozo are not some bloodthirsty race who were training Samus to be simply a machine for fighting. The Chozo embraced a balance between technology and harmony with nature. They valued knowledge, not power. They would not have taught Samus to be a mindless killing machine. They would have taught her to respect nature and to seek friends, not enemies. Under their guidance, Samus would turn not into a cold blooded killer but into a warrior with a soft heart. In the manga, as I recall, it is stated that the Chozo were training her to be the savior of the universe. Savior does not translate into "hardened killer".

I apologize if I offended anyone.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Littlefoot1616 on October 03, 2010, 07:08:31 PM
Listen people, I really don't know what the issue is here but this needs to stop. No matter how loud it is shouted, a rant is still just another opinion. Shmuck, if you don't like the game then fine fair enough that is your opinion but please don't come charging in yelling about what you don't agree with. It is purely subjective. It is was YOU don't like about it. Other don't appear to have a major problem with Other M. There's no need to go on about it. I trust this banter will be over from this point onwards coz if it continues I will be force to take action. I haven't had to do that as of yet and I'd hate to think I'd have to start now. Let it rest people...
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: DarkHououmon on October 03, 2010, 07:14:41 PM
Um, yelling? Who is yelling? Truttle and I were just stating our opinions as well. Where did you get the idea that we were yelling? I thought we were just making some interesting discussions.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Truttle on October 03, 2010, 07:29:11 PM
Don't worry about it Littlefoot1616. I tried to keep my post as civil as possible. There was no insults and no banter. This topic is still under control. We're just sharing opinions.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Campion1 on October 03, 2010, 07:36:31 PM
I think previous users is a pretty cool guy. eh makes long detailed posts and doesnt afraid of anything.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Littlefoot1616 on October 04, 2010, 04:02:27 AM
No one's yelling DH. But I don't want anymore ranting verbal volleys over what people don't like about this game. There's no need for it to continue. I'm not impeding on anyone voicing their opinion. That is the point for areas like this. Also, no one's in trouble but there's no need to overdo it. I'm just asking that people be a little more mindful and respectful about what you say. A rant is still just an opinion after all.

Carry on people! ;)
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: DarkHououmon on October 04, 2010, 08:40:59 AM
I'll just refrain from posting in this topic.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: LBTFan13 on October 04, 2010, 12:50:02 PM
I agree with Kacie. I really don't find any issue with this topic. Yes, TheNumberOneShmuck posted a really long rant about what he didn't like about the game, but it's exactly like you said. It's only his opinion, nothing more. He's not trying to offend people who enjoy the game and he's not trying to persuade people that it's a bad game.

To be honest, I'm actually kind of glad he posted his rant. It provided numerous points of discussion about the game which I think are going actually very well. Sure when he first posted the rant it was a bit much, but he had edited his post to make it less extreme. I don't see anything wrong with continuing our discussion here, as really that's all we are doing at this point.

So with all due respect Littlefoot1616, I wouldn't worry so much about this topic at the moment. Now granted if it gets out of hand in the future then yes something should be done. At the rate it is going, I don't see any need for action to be taken, or for any concern about the mood of the discussion ;)
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Littlefoot1616 on October 04, 2010, 01:01:43 PM
No worries or issues guys. Just overviewing to keep things in check and preserve the peace is all. ;) No one needs to stop posting.  :smile
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: TheNumberOneShmuck on October 04, 2010, 09:20:41 PM
Quote from: Truttle,Oct 3 2010 on  03:18 PM
First of all, I want to state that your opinions, while reasonable and understandable, are really only your opinion. So it’s really just conjecture that you state. I’m sure you won’t deny that and I’m not saying that you are. It’s just a bit much that your rant came off as that. You made many claims and stated them as if they were law and irrefutable.
I made very sure to only state that certain points, ones which might have been toeing the line between objective and subjective, were not matters of opinion, but of set-in-stone portrayal by the various designers of the series. Everything else was clearly either objective or subjective.

Quote
First, I’ll discuss the issue of her reaction to seeing Ridley. You state that her reaction was unprecedented because she has faced him before on numerous occasions and in numerous forms and never flinched. Well, first off, we all know that the canon of the manga wasn’t inserted until much later.
The manga section was purely to make the point that involving the manga, which many like to do to support the PTSD theory, hurts Other M more than it helps. The rest of the argument mostly ignores the manga.

Quote
And second you have to understand that the creators only had so much they could work with. Almost all metroid games are 2D games with a small amount of frames to work with. I’m pretty sure the creators didn’t feel like wasting their time with having Samus show large amounts of reactions and stances. Now you’ll probably debate that they could have shown that in Prime, and Echoes and that they did show her react in corruption and in Fusion. Well if you mean that little eye bulge when she finds out that Adam is in the computer well, that’s pretty much all we get. I don’t think the creators want to show a second eye bulge when she meets Ridley or anything else. You can just chock that up to “They didn’t feel like it” they probably felt it was pointless an unnecessary as to save more time on gameplay. And as for Prime and Echoes, I blame it on the software limitations. It was designed for the Gamecube, we see very little from Samus as it’s entirely in first person, barely much of her face, and there are so many scan items, hell, she never even utters a word and the endings are so bland that I’m pretty sure that’s all they could squeeze into it.
Corruption wasn't much further along than the first two games. It made everything prettier, and introduced new liquid physics for the Fuel Gel, but it wasn't that different. And besides, Samus's face isn't the only way to show fear. Body language is a very powerful tool in the right hands, and Retro certainly could have done it with the Gamecube hardware, no problem.

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Now in corruption maybe it’s a little different. They have much more software to work with since it’s now on the Wii. They offered many interactable features to let the player feel more like they’re in Samus’s boots. You can push and pull levers, and even navigate your ship with motions using the wiimote. So for the first time, we see her reaction to seeing Ridley, as you stated, she does get scared, just because her duration of fear is different, it doesn’t matter, she can get scared.
Actually, it matters a lot. As I said in my rant, I don't have a problem with Samus showing fear, I had a problem with the extreme they took it to. That really was the main point of most of my complaints; not that they did those things, but that they went overboard with them.

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You stated that because of her “brief” service with the Galactic Federation and being raised by the Chozo should have molded her into a hardened killing machine. I don’t think so. The chozo are a technological race, and not fully warbound to always want to battle. They gave Samus chozo DNA that helped make her stronger and more athletic in order to merge the Power Suit to her. They saw a potential in her to be a savior. Besides, even if she had a lot of experience, even Rambo broke down and started crying at the end of the movie, so you can’t tell us that her PTSD can just go away. Besides, that didn’t stop her from finding her courage afterward and proceeding to kick Ridley’s butt with a fury.
Again, the PTSD thing is manga-contained. Other M never states that it's PTSD, only the manga makes it clear. And, as I said in the rant, regular human soldiers might not be able to just "get over" PTSD, but the manga shows Samus doing just that. Samus recovered mentally a few years after the initial incident, and even if PTSD could make a comeback by way of Ridley seemingly being able to come back from the dead, Samus would quickly get over that, too. As for the "hardened killing machine" comment, I never once stated that this would make her immune to fear or emotions, I'm just saying that, with the manga demonstrating her superior ability to recover mentally, it stands to reason that her Chozo and military training would provide the mental toughening that could make that a feasible character trait. By the way, Samus is a hardened killing machine, but all that means to me is that she can take a life when she needs to, without hesitation, and without freaking out about it afterwards. Oh, and "machine" because, in her travels around the Galaxy filled with hostile creatures, she ends up killing quite a lot, sometimes dozens and dozens of creatures within only a few minutes.

Quote
Now let’s talk about her power suit. It seems that you’re under the assumption that it’s made out of some sort of impenetrable diamond hard substance. It’s been shown many times and even within the games such as the Prime series, that her suit is not a ceramic suit of armor, it’s not a robotic hollow suit that she can slip in and out of like clothes. It’s a biological organic exoskeleton. Fusion even states that it’s so integrated into her biological system that removing too much of it would be fatal. Her suit is flexible and even has joints. That’s why she’s been infected on several occasions. By Dark Samus and by the X. In fact, her suit itself is not what protects her from death, it’s some sort of unseen energy field that the suit produces, perhaps within the suit. That’s why you collect energy tanks in the game to extend the shield’s duration. The very fact that an enemy can bump into her and make her grunt with pain from the injury shows that she feels pain through the suit. I’m not talking about a lazer beam, or acid, but a mere bump! She feels the cold, and she feels the heat, it’s like a skin to her. So it’s completely understandable that when Ridley grabs her and is crushing her (You’ll notice that this is when her suit fades) that her suit starts to falter, her pain is causing her to lose her mental focus which must be deactivating the suit. We’ve seen multiple times that she removes the suit without so much as touching a button or speaking some sort of activation code. So I believe the suit is activated mentally. So when Adam shoots her spine, I think that’s enough of a shock to her system to also deactivate her suit, afterall, she falls unconscious. We’ve seen her suit fall apart even in Super Metroid so this shouldn’t be such a surprise.
That's all good and well, but it still causes a problem within Other M. Specifically, the fact that Ridley squeezed the life out of her, then slammed her into a wall and scraped her across it. Her suit faltered here. And yet, even with her broken concentration due to the freakout, and Ridley's assault (which I imagine would be capable of some serious spinal trauma, when combining the squeezing with the slam against the wall) her suit never fully deactivates, and she's able to quickly recover after he drops her, whereas Adam's one shot knocked her out, disabled her suit, and temporarily rendered her a weakened, hobbling wreck. Oh, and the suit being disabled renders the magic shot further implausible, due to the following: she's been shown a couple of times unconscious with the suit still active, meaning that if the suit only functions while she focuses on keeping it functional, she's probably trained enough that sustaining it is as natural to her as breathing, which would mean that Adam's shot would have had to hit her extra hard to cause her to lose her ability to sustain the suit. Either that, or, more likely, the suit toggles on and of with a thought, which again would have to mean that Adam's shot had to hit extra hard in order to actually cause a malfunction in the suit. Either way, that one shot had to be amazingly powerful, and probably hit an absurdly precise point at the same time, to do the kind of ridiculous damage it did. Ultimately, it just boils down to cutscene convenience, and if you asked Sakamoto about it, I imagine he'd be tripping over his words while attempting to come up with an explanation. I honestly think you put more thought into it than he did (quite impressive, actually; I hadn't put much thought into how the suit functioned until now)

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Now about how Fusion is better at emotions than Other M. Seriously? This response will be pretty short. All we get is a momentary outburst of anger towards the computer and an eye bulge when she finds out the computer is Adam. The rest is all text. You can’t show much emotion through text.
My response is equally short, and consists of two points:
1. I said that Fusion is BETTER at Samus's emotions, not that Fusion had a MORE emotive Samus. It just comes down to the point that Fusion's Samus, as a character, stayed very true to the Samus we'd seen in the other games, but still managed to grow quite a bit as a character.
2. You can show TONS of emotion through text. Books have proven that for hundreds of years.

Quote
Now onto the “Following orders” problem. On Adam’s part, I am under the assumption that Adam was the deleter. I know I have no way to prove this since the game never reveals it, but this is my guess, think about it for a second, the galactic federation wanted to preserve their biological weapons. The metroid’s that were genetically enhanced to resist being frozen. I believe since adam was secretly trying to destroy the metroids he had to stop anyone from preventing his mission. I think the other members he dispatched were part of that retrieval unit. Since the beginning, he knew his mission was suicide, the only way to disconnect section zero was from inside, there’s no way out after that. Knowing that Samus was the only one strong enough to save the universe, he made that sacrifice and chose her over himself. So I’m assuming that the reason Adam had restricted her suit’s features was to keep her from reaching the location, to slow her progress. Now as for her following his orders blindly. Besides the fact that she trusts him so strongly, how many times has she done something “Stupid” as you claim? Many times! She goes to planet SR388 to eradicate EVER SINGLE METROID except one!? “Hmm…this one’s cute! I’ll call it spot!” Her act was illegal as stated by the general at the end of Other M, plus the fact that it caused all kinds of hell in Super Metroid. And the fact that she fights herds of giant monsters, dives into pools of lava relying on the guess that her varia suit “MIGHT” protect her from the heat. (She doesn’t know until she tries. Who else would willingly do that?) Does that seem rational to you?
First, James is the Deleter. After talking to "Madeline Bergman", Samus leaves, and someone approaches "Madeline", the screen goes black, then there's a loud noise. When you go back to that room, James lying there, dead, with his visor smashed in. The Deleter is also shown, in the scene where he kicks K.G.'s body into a lava pool, to have the 07 on the front of his helmet noticeably worn and faded, something only James seems to have, as the other members helmets have the 07 in good condition.

Anyway, Adam does indeed want to keep Samus from discovering the secrets of Sector 0, but wanting to keep her from figuring it out is still no reason to not immediately authorize her suits, as he wouldn't want her to die.

As for the stupid stuff... well, first let me say that, no Samus would never have to jump in lava to test the limitations of the Varia suit, as Prime shows that her HUD warns her when extreme temperatures or corrosive substances are detected in the immediate area, a noise indicating when she's in the danger zone. When the Varia suit is acquired, the HUD's meter still rises to indicate these things, but the noise no longer plays when she's in superheated rooms, although it still plays when she's too close to lava, indicating that her suit knows its temperature and corrosion limits, and so Samus would know about this without having to jump in. By the way, this is a very silly response to a very silly accusation.

And as for the baby Metroid, while I certainly wouldn't have let the thing live, the factor that is a woman's desire to be a mother is something that I couldn't say Samus is beyond. PTSD, as I said, is manga-contained, and the manga itself shows that Samus could and did recover from it. Maternal instincts, however, are not something that have been shown to be incompatible with her character in any way. Certainly, looking back on it objectively, it seems like a stupid decision, but not unthinkable from Samus who had basically no experience in this area, whereas something so combat-related (combat being the field in which Samus is the most well-versed and logical) as using your best armor is something that Samus would not act stupidly about.

Quote
You’re just going to have to get used to the idea that she followed orders because she wants to.
Now this is a rather unnecessary thing to say. I could just as easily tell you to get used to the idea that she didn't want to follow the orders, as Fusion says she doesn't. I'm not even sure what the point was.

I'll respond to DH later. For now, WWE Raw is on.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: TheNumberOneShmuck on October 05, 2010, 04:14:05 AM
Quote from: DarkHououmon,Oct 3 2010 on  03:23 PM
Personally I find it hard to believe that the emotions in Metroid Fusion were better than in Metroid: Other M. Don't you mean "lack of emotion"? As Truttle pointed out, the only time she does show what can be interpreted as genuine emotion is during one scene (where she argues with the computer and shows shock). Other than that, it's simply her talking. That's not really emotion. It's just text. She was just explaining what was going on. That isn't the same as showing emotion.
As I said in my previous post, Other M's Samus was more emotive than Fusion's Samus, but Fusion's Samus experienced emotion and character growth in a way that expanded the character we'd seen in previous games, without contradicting them. As for the lack of emotion, it's been a while since I've played Fusion, but I find your accusation that Samus lacked emotion in it to be off. By how much, I'm not entirely sure, I'll have to go through the game again and take note of the goings-on to refresh my memory before I'll feel truly comfortable diving as deep as I need to on that subject, but I do know she did more than just explain the situation.

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PTSD is not easily gotten over. Just ask any soldier suffering from it. It can last for a very long time and still effect people even many years later. It's not like some scratch or minor wound like that. PTSD is the result of experiencing something extremely traumatic, and in Samus's case, that extremely traumatic event was the Space Pirate assault that killed her entire family and nearly getting killed by Ridley. I seriously doubt something that severe is going to be easily gotten over with training. Training would only make Samus physically stronger; it is not going to erase the painful memories. They're engraved in her mind.
Once more, if you involve PTSD, you involve the manga, and if you involve the manga, you involve Samus getting over PTSD. Plus, combat training of most any kind does indeed involve mental toughening, because mentally weak, unstable, or unfocused people are generally not as effective in stressful combat situations, where keeping a clear head makes a huge difference. To make it clear, it's the manga that shows Samus getting over PTSD; I'm just rationalizing it for the purposes of this debate. After all, if she just got over PTSD "because" I'd call BS on that.

Quote
And secondly, the Chozo are not some bloodthirsty race who were training Samus to be simply a machine for fighting. The Chozo embraced a balance between technology and harmony with nature. They valued knowledge, not power. They would not have taught Samus to be a mindless killing machine. They would have taught her to respect nature and to seek friends, not enemies. Under their guidance, Samus would turn not into a cold blooded killer but into a warrior with a soft heart. In the manga, as I recall, it is stated that the Chozo were training her to be the savior of the universe. Savior does not translate into "hardened killer".
Actually, the Chozo valued knowledge and power. They were very advanced technologically, and yet still maintained pride in their lineage of warriors. That's the Chozo that have been presented to me in the series. They embrace technology and disciplined skill, not harmony with nature. Speaking of which, I'm not seeing where that perception came from. The manga, the only direct portrayal I know of, shows them ordering their robots to destroy some alien plants and creatures because of the potential threat they posed, and the games haven't done anything for the nature thing either, to the best of my memory. Not to say that they didn't care about nature, or take interest in the ecosystem of their world, but it's never been presented as a priority.

They may not be bloodthirsty, but not being bloodthirsty doesn't mean that Samus's combat training and DNA infusion at the hands of a culture with a proud tradition of fierce warriors would be guaranteed to make her the perfect figure of compassion, who is one with nature, and would never take the seemingly cold-hearted, but ultimately logical, option if there were a seemingly "kinder" one available even if it made less objective sense. Maybe the Chozo wanted the super-virtuous Saviour of the galaxy, but that doesn't necessarily mean they got one. The fact is that Samus became a bounty hunter. She leans in favour of what generally seems right to most of us, but she still ultimately kills things (and does some other stuff too, but she still kills a lot) for money. She is, at some level, a hardened killer. This doesn't take away the possibility that she could also be emotional or frightened at some level, but she does have higher standards for mental strength, and I say that because you really have to in order to live with that job as long as she has.

And really, you seem to be falling into the trap I warned against in my big rant, about assuming I'm rooting for the "machine made for fighting" That's not an extreme I'm in favor of, it's just that the Samus that we've seen before, and the one that I liked, is a little closer to that one than the one we got in Other M.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: WeirdRaptor on October 05, 2010, 08:03:10 PM
I fail to see how the PTSD is only manga contained. Samus saw two homes get obliterated and she had a front row seat to two families meeting a similar fate. As far as I'm concerned, the PTSD is canon. I will take neither side of this debate, but that is my two cents.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: DarkHououmon on October 05, 2010, 10:51:44 PM
I still believe in what I said and I still stick by it. I already explained my view on several of the common complaints about Metroid Other M and I still haven't changed my views on them. I made each judgment based on what I know about the series, and I am quite familiar with it. However, I am not going to repeat my points like you have. I feel explaining once is enough.

I should also point out, I may have forgotten to do this, that the manga is now canon to the games, so observations made in the manga do count when making judgments on Samus's canon character.

Personally, I like the way Samus is portrayed in the manga and in Other M. I'm not fond of the "standard action girl with no emotional flaws" view nor am I fond of the idea of her being a "hardened killer". The way she's portrayed in the manga and Other M makes her feel more human, more real in a way.

It also makes her more interesting. It's easy to picture a "hardened killer" to go around fighting giant monsters and holding their own and such. It doesn't come as a surprise. However, put a traumatized young woman in the same situation, and when she starts doing the same stuff, not only does that seem surprising, but it also creates a more unique character. I feel Samus is a much more interesting character as a traumatized young woman defending the galaxy than a hardened woman trained to kill.

Anyway I'm not sure if there's anything I could add to this debate at the moment. So that's all I'll say for now.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Truttle on October 05, 2010, 11:02:16 PM
Wow...okay....anyway, I agree with DarkHououmon, as this debate only seems to be repeating itself with little acknowledgment of issues pointed out, I will also stick to what I said and leave it at that to avoid any further problems.

But for future reference, try to keep your cool and think about what you say.

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After all, if she just got over PTSD "because" I'd call BS on that.

Quote
By the way, this is a very silly response to a very silly accusation.

So I forgot about the visor warning, alright, my bad, I was pictureing Super Metroid at the time, but don't berate as silly.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: WeirdRaptor on October 05, 2010, 11:06:35 PM
What I'd like to know is why each new video game releases always result in heated debates like this? Did knew releases and remodels of Chess and its pieces ever garner this much debate way back when?

Its stuff like this that makes me almost dread the day Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword gets released, however mild they may be on here on GoF.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Flathead770 on October 15, 2010, 11:45:30 PM
Quote
It also makes her more interesting. It's easy to picture a "hardened killer" to go around fighting giant monsters and holding their own and such. It doesn't come as a surprise. However, put a traumatized young woman in the same situation, and when she starts doing the same stuff, not only does that seem surprising, but it also creates a more unique character. I feel Samus is a much more interesting character as a traumatized young woman defending the galaxy than a hardened woman trained to kill.
I agree. I dont know if i stated it before but i find the contrast of the emotional cutscenes and badass actions Samus performs (like lethal strikes) quite appealing.

Im not gonna go into detail about what i liked/disliked since i already mentione that before, but i really enjoyed the game and its easily the best story in any metroid game. Has anyone watched the Theater Mode yet? Its probably the closet thing we'll ever get to a Metroid Movie.

Also, has anyone tried playing it on hard yet? (you need to get 100% to unlock hard). If anyone wonders what it will be like, you get absolutely NO PICKUPS at all. That means you will have only 99 energy and 10 missiles the whole game (equilivalent to a 1% run of Metroid Fusion pretty much). If you hated the idea of concentration for any reason, you love that its there for hard. You also need to be very efficient with lethal strikes, overblasts, and the sense move/charge (since you get no accel-charges) and exploit them whenever you can. Also as a heads up, Ridley is a pain. With both his tail attacks killing you in one hit and everything else bringing you down to near death. I was dissapointed that you cant do the bonus ending on hard though, the game stops after the Metroid Queen and MB.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Littlefoot1616 on October 17, 2010, 06:14:53 AM
Just to tip things another way slightly, has anyone recovered "the important irreplaceable item"?
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: pokeplayer984 on October 17, 2010, 09:11:20 AM
Quote from: Littlefoot1616,Oct 17 2010 on  04:14 AM
Just to tip things another way slightly, has anyone recovered "the important irreplaceable item"?
I have.  The reason it's irreplaceable is because it has sentimental value.  That's all I'll say with that one.

As for Hard Mode?  Too hard for my tastes.  Won't be trying that anytime soon.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: StarfallRaptor on October 17, 2010, 05:44:13 PM
Okay, finally working up enough guts to post my theories about the suit vanishing and Samus's reaction to Ridley.

I think that her suit shut down when Adam shot her due to the shot being some sort of electromagnetic-type shot.  Then, not only would it overload the suit, but also cause a temporary function problem in Samus herself.  Basically, it overloaded the suit and the parts of her brain that control it.  Kinda like a Tazer, only worse.

As to Ridley, I think it was less PTSD, more the "serial killer syndrome".  Think of it this way.  This game happens after Super Metroid.  During which she shot Ridley to death, saw him fall in a pit of lava, burn, then the planet itself exploded.  I think anyone would be freaked out.  I could almost see her saying, in a panic,

Samus:  Ridley?  But you...you're...

Ridley:  Dead?

I mean, really, who wouldn't freak out?
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: pokeplayer984 on October 17, 2010, 06:09:00 PM
^^ I STILL don't get how Ridley survived that.  I mean, how CAN you survive that?

I think everyone's jaw dropped when they found that out.

Seriously, is Ridley invincible or something?
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: DarkHououmon on October 17, 2010, 06:30:35 PM
Well I did read something that might help it make sense. From what I heard, the Ridley Samus faces in Other M is actually a clone. The original Ridley really did die on Zebes and someone created a clone of Ridley and it is the clone that Samus fights/encounters in Other M and Fusion, not the original Ridley.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Truttle on October 17, 2010, 08:10:33 PM
Thank you Flathead770! I myself was about to see what Hard mode was like. I had no idea it was that hard! Now I can feel satisfied in knowing that I don't have to play all the way through the nightmare to know. You're a gaming champion for beating it though, Kudos!  :smile
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: pokeplayer984 on October 17, 2010, 11:46:56 PM
Quote from: DarkHououmon,Oct 17 2010 on  04:30 PM
Well I did read something that might help it make sense. From what I heard, the Ridley Samus faces in Other M is actually a clone. The original Ridley really did die on Zebes and someone created a clone of Ridley and it is the clone that Samus fights/encounters in Other M and Fusion, not the original Ridley.
Okay, THAT is the ONLY thing I would believe.  Anything else would result in me trying to prove you wrong.

Thank you, DH!
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: DarkHououmon on October 18, 2010, 10:31:29 AM
To add to what I said, here is another bit I read, which reveals who cloned Ridley and how they got the DNA to do it.

Quote
Ridley made an appearance as a boss creature in Metroid: Other M. This incarnation of Ridley is, like in the chronologically subsequent Metroid Fusion incarnation, not the original Ridley. This Ridley was secretly cloned by the Galactic Federation scientists on the Bottle Ship, using DNA found on Samus' armor, which seemingly landed on her when Ridley exploded back in Super Metroid.

On a related note, here's something else I read, involving Samus's reaction to Ridley. One summary I found puts the blame on both PTSD and the shock of seeing Ridley alive again.

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At the sight of her longtime nemesis' sudden reappearance after a long time of peace since his "true" death is enough to trigger Samus' post-traumatic stress disorder. She was too overcome with shock and horror to react, giving Ridley time to grab her as her Power Suit deteriorated from a complete loss of concentration.

I hadn't mentioned this before I don't think, but I don't think Samus would have reacted the way she did in Other M if either:

1. Ridley had actually survived the explosion on Zebes and Samus knew about it

or

2. Samus had known about the clone of Ridley beforehand

Because she both believed Ridley to be dead for good and had no awareness of the clone, it's understandable that she would be horrified at the site of Ridley's sudden "return from the grave" appearance.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Flathead770 on November 20, 2010, 11:00:27 PM
It was mentioned in a cutscene (or rather implied) that ridley was a clone when MB tells Samus that the metroids were created from dna that was found on her suit.

I dont know if this was already mentioned, but when you return to the bottle ship to get the "irreplacable item", both Ridley and Nightmare (the gravity chaning boss) is gone. This gives me reason to believe that the Ridley in Metroid Fusion the petrified Ridley at the end of Other M. This would also make sense as to why Ridley would be frozen in the BSL labs in Fusion (the one thing i never really got in fusion, as no explanation was given as to why he as there let alone frozen). Nightmare was obviously recreated from its remains in Other M. Also it seems the even though the federation realized that metroids are a bad idea as bio wepons (especially ones that cant be frozen. I really dont understand what the federation was thinking), they still seem obsessed with creating more metroids. Though they say that the metroids were planned on being used "for peaceful applications" (probably "harnessing their energy" as stated in the beginning of Super Metroid).


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Thank you Flathead770! I myself was about to see what Hard mode was like. I had no idea it was that hard! Now I can feel satisfied in knowing that I don't have to play all the way through the nightmare to know. You're a gaming champion for beating it though, Kudos! 
Thanks! By all means though, you should still give it a shot to see what its like first hand. Its very satisfying after beating a boss (especially one as hard as ridley). As for myself, i just enjoy very hard challenges in games not to mention that Metroid is probably my favorite franchise out of them all.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: DarkHououmon on February 07, 2011, 01:24:52 PM
Been meaning to post in here for a while. I did defeat Metroid Other M several weeks ago. My thoughts: I did enjoy the gameplay. Took me a while to get used to it, though, and while there are some aspects of it I don't like, it didn't really break the gameplay for me.

I also do like how Samus is portrayed in the game, more like a real human being. I like that it shows us that she's capable of making mistakes, that she's capable of showing fear, etc. I don't feel she was portrayed out of character at all. The only thing that's changed in the game is that she talks (a lot I might add) but she's still the same bounty hunter, fighting off large enemies, doing her best to protect others, among all that stuff.

There are two moments in the game where I question why the developers chose to play them out this way, but they can be dismissed as Samus making mistakes, which I feel is a good thing. Showing that she's capable of error brings her closer to being a believable human being.

My only real complaint regarding Samus is that, while I like that she talks, I'd like her to shut up once in a while because she can go on and on and on. I swear 90% of the spoken dialogue in the game is all Samus. It wouldn't be as bad if I could skip the cutscenes and get right back to the gameplay, but, far as I know, you can't skip the cutscenes.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: pokeplayer984 on October 21, 2011, 01:06:18 PM
A little theory of the questionable scene of Samus facing Ridley was recently given by Moviebob.  You see his theory is that the part where it seems that Samus is frozen there on the spot while Ridley moves towards her, is actually being seen from Samus' point of view.  To her, everything is moving at a slower pace when in reality it's happening a lot faster than we're actually seeing.

Trust me, with him being a professional movie critic, he'd know this trick pretty well.  What do you guys think?

To me, it does actually make sense.  It is indeed possible that Ridley did attack much faster than what we are seeing.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Petrie85 on October 21, 2011, 04:45:29 PM
Yes I do agree that Ridley the most pain in the ass  boss in the whole Metroid Series was a bit faster in that game. I lost to him a lot of times.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: DarkHououmon on October 21, 2011, 05:27:11 PM
I'm not entirely sure about that. One thing Moviebob forgot is that Adam did try to communicate with Samus and if Ridley did move much faster, I doubt he would have had time to try to warn Samus as he watched the scene unfold.

Plus I've seen slow mo stuff done before in games, and this wasn't the same thing. If it was meant to be in slow mo, there would have been an indication. Surroundings may have frozen (when they did not). Some kind of effect even, a blurring or something. But nothing about the animation of everything changed when Ridley showed up, and this tells me that time was still moving at the same pace as before.

So while Moviebob's idea sounds good, I don't think it holds water. To me, it would just make no sense if that was from Samus's point of view. If the gamers really wanted that scene to be slow mo, to show how startled Samus was, they would have made it more obvious to the gamers.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Campion1 on October 22, 2011, 12:03:46 AM
This doesn't add to conversation, but "moviebob" is a professional nothing.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Littlefoot1616 on October 23, 2011, 04:32:27 AM
Quote from: Petrie85,Oct 21 2011 on  03:45 PM
Yes I do agree that Ridley the most pain in the ass  boss in the whole Metroid Series was a bit faster in that game. I lost to him a lot of times.
Can't argue with you there! He wasn't too bad in Other M. I found him more troublesome in Prime 1. He starts out pretty slow but when you come to finishing him off, Ridley goes hell for leather and wiped me out on plenty of occasions inches from the end! I found him harder than the final guardian!  :blink:
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: DarkHououmon on October 23, 2011, 09:44:08 AM
I don't find him too hard in Metroid Prime 1 anymore, but still annoying, particularly in hard mode.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Belmont2500 on October 23, 2011, 07:21:49 PM
Still,Ridley has always been a bit of a pain, except in the original Metroid.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: DarkHououmon on March 25, 2012, 12:21:49 PM
I kept forgetting to post this. Many many months ago, I wrote a Metroid Other M rebuttal statement regarding the criticisms of Samus's portrayal of Other M. I had read the manga and played all the games except for Metroid Prime Hunters, which I watched a video walkthrough of, in order to write this. It hasn't been edited in a long time.
















I will admit that I did enjoy Metroid Other M, but it did give me some frustrations. Some of the gameplay mechanics I didn't particularly like and took me a while to get used to, some of the bosses (especially the final boss) were too easy, the cutscenes are really long at times, and two scenes involving Samus (no not the one with Ridley) needed better explainations. But this doesn't mean I think it's bad. In fact, I do find it an enjoyable experience and I do recommend the game to any fan of Metroid, or even newcomers to the franchise. The combined perspectives of first person and third person would cater to those who have difficulty in one or the other type of view. I like the idea of being able to replenish missiles at any time and recovering one or more energy tanks when low on health. The cinematics are nice and I liked some of the characters, like Anthony.

I am surprised that the game isn't as well recieved as I think it should be. It seems like this is in part due to Samus taking orders from Adam when she's supposed to hate taking orders, Samus being "weak", "cowardly", and "whiny", and her choking up when she sees Ridley. However I have to disagree with all of this. I'm going to make several arguments to defend her portrayal in Other M and explain why it isn't out of character for her. And before you say that I "haven't played enough of the games to understand", I have recently finished a gaming marathon of Metroid. I first read the manga, then I played Metroid, Metroid: Zero Mission, Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime Hunters (watched a playthrough since I don't own the game), Metroid Prime 2, Metroid Prime 3, Metroid II, Super Metroid, Metroid Other M, and Metroid Fusion to refamiliarize myself with this particular universe. So I do know what I'm talking about.

So I'll bring up some of the common complaints I heard of about her portrayal and offer my rebuttal.


1. "Samus shouldn't be taking orders from Adam. She's a bounty hunter, isn't a part of the Galactic Federation, and has no reason to follow orders from them."

My answer: Well this is only partially true. She isn't a part of GF anymore and she is a freelance bounty hunter. She became a bounty hunter at some point before the first Metroid game. However, the notion she doesn't need to take orders from them isn't exactly true. For one thing, she might not be a part of the GF, but that doesn't mean she is free to disobey them. The Galactic Federation does have a sact called the Galactic Federation Police, which, as one may guess, is able to make arrests. If Samus were to do anything that may be percieved as a threat, then she could be arrested. This could easily include misconduct with a commanding officer and jeopardizing a mission the GF was on.

In other words, Samus would still need to listen to them to avoid trouble. This doesn't equal to her having to agree with them, of course, and she could still go off and do her own thing. But if there's a GF team in the same area, she'd have to make sure she doesn't disrupt them, or there could be trouble. Cooperation would be needed for a better success.

This issue isn't always the case, obviously, as in some Metroid games, she's on her own, such as the first Metroid and Super Metroid. This is how she likes to work, on her own. This has been highlighted particularly in the manga and mentioned a bit in Fusion. Samus is a 'lone wolf', prefering to work alone. But this doesn't mean she always works alone. She may not enjoy taking orders, but that doesn't mean she won't. If she feels she must, she will. And in fact, multiple Metroid games do involve her taking orders from the GF, right down to the very first game.

In the first Metroid game, Samus has been assigned by the Galactic Federation to defeat Mother Brain and her forces on the planet Zebes. In Metroid II, she was assigned, again by the Galactic Federation, to go to the planet SR388 and wipe out the metroid population to end their threat to the galaxy. In Metroid Prime Hunters, the GF tells Samus to investigate the "ultimate power" after receiving a telepathic message. In Metroid Prime 3, the Galactic Federation is even more involved, with Samus taking orders from them multiple times throughout the entire game and even joining in with their fleet. And finally there is Metroid Fusion, in which Samus takes orders from the GF throughout the whole game through the computer on her ship, which she has named Adam. Oh I did forget Metroid: Zero Mission, a remake of the first game. She's still taking orders in that game as well.

In fact, Metroid Fusion follows a very similar formula as Metroid Other M. In Metroid Fusion, Samus follows the orders of the computer, Adam (who has Adam's mind, so it's basically like taking orders from the real Adam). She goes where it tells her, for the most part she only goes to certain places when it tells her to. It controls when she gets certain upgrades. This is almost just like Metroid Other M. Just like Fusion, Samus takes orders from Adam. She goes to certain locations when Adam tells her to. She usually only turns on equipment when Adam gives the okay. Oh did I say "almost"? No, I'm wrong. The formula is just like Metroid Fusion, with the only real difference being how much equipment she gets on her own and what she gets from Adam's okay (the human and the computer) and the setting.

So basically what this means is that people are complaining of Samus taking orders from the GF when she has been doing this throughout most of the games. The only games in which she doesn't take orders from the GF and is basically acting on her own is Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 2 (well she responds to a GF distress signal but that's it, not really taking orders), and Super Metroid. That's it. Just 3 games, while the remaining 7 (including Other M) involve her taking orders from the GF in some shape or form. So in all honestly, I don't see what the big deal is in Other M with her taking orders from Adam. It's not like she hasn't done this before. *points to Metroid Fusion*



2. "Samus is portrayed as weak, whiny, and cowardly when she never was in previous games."

My answer: And she was never portrayed as such anywhere in Metroid Other M. Honestly, I don't really get why people say this. I have played the game myself, twice, and so far I haven't seen a real instance of her being weak or whiny or cowardly. I try to think of something, but I always draw a blank. If anything, the one word I'd ascribe to her is talkative. She does talk a lot in the game, taking up a lot of the dialogue. But being talktive doesn't really mean whiny.

For whiny, the only bit I can thin of is when Samus is demanding Adam to send her out, both in the flashback and when Adam is about to sacrifice himself. These aren't really particularly whiny. In the flashback, Samus is merely just inexperienced and overly compitent. She's desperate to save Adam's brother and wants to prove herself. Even Anthony points out that she was 'just a pup' back then and she had matured since then. For the other part, she is again desperate, but this time she wants to save Adam. In this case, she's more justified as she has stood up agains the metroids before and managed to defeat them. Her wanting to prevent Adam from going into Sector Zero is what I'd call a more human-like response. If your best friend, someone you care about, was about to go into danger to save you, wouldn't you try to stop them?

She is also never portrayed as weak or cowardly in the game. I honestly can't find any time in the game that would constitute her being weak. And no, getting pinned down by an opponent doesn't equal to being weak, and neither does showing emotion, making mistakes, or having a breakdown. Throughout the entire game, Samus has done a lot of fighting. She is fighting against an endless number of enemies. No matter how much she kills, more just show up. Yet she doesn't allow that to stop her. She continously goes through these infested sections even though she could easily just run away. She doesn't run away at any point in the game, from any enemy. She always stands and fights. Heck, she even jumps on top of enemies, rips out their wings, shoots them in the head, or tosses them aside. Would a real coward or weakling do that? I don't think so.

Perhaps the reason people say she's weak and cowardly is because of the scene involving Ridley. However, that scene doesn't really portray her as being weak, as I'll explain in the next part.


3. "Samus shouldn't have been so terrified of Ridley as she has faced him before."

My answer: True, she did have a more profound reaction to Ridley than at any other boss in Other M. She goes into a state of fear and shock, resulting in her being attacked. She is so shaken up by Ridley that she is unable to fight back or move...because she was suffering from two things. First, post traumatic stress disorder, and second, the mere shock of seeing Ridley again. If fans of Metroid were to look at the situation more carefully instead of with a closed mind, they'd realize that there was good reason for Samus to react the way she did.

First off, PSTD is a real condition that isn't easily overcome. Ask anyone who suffers from it and they can tell you the same thing. It's not something that can be taken away through military training or through being raised by certain types of people. People with it can suffer from it for years, some may never get over it.

Samus has good cause to suffer PSTD at the sight of Ridley. When she was only a few years old, she had witnessed her parents, as well as her home, slaughtered and destroyed by Ridley and his forces. Samus's last sight was almost the sight of Ridley coming at her with his claws and sharp teeth. She was so young at this point, and the event was so traumatic it was both engraved into her mind and forgotten, that is until she meets him again later on in the manga. Memories flooded back to her, causing her to not being able to move as Ridley attacked her, much like Other M. Her reaction was far worse in the manga, as the PSTD almost caused her to kill herself. The Chozo snapped her out of it, but not by being military-like and scolding her, but by comforting her and allowing her to display her emotional grief.

By contrast, in Metroid Other M, her PTSD reaction is more mild. She recovers more quickly from it and does go up against Ridley. Despite her previous reaction, she does fight well against him, able to bring him down and cause him to flee. She doesn't have another attack like this throughout the rest of the game. And in the manga, she doesn't suffer another attack. The next time she sees Ridley, she defeats him.

But some of you may be saying "Well it doesn't matter if she has PTSD or not. She faced Ridley before and therefore she should be used to fighting him." Well true, sort of. But PTSD isn't the only thing that played a role in how she behaved. People are forgetting the shock part of it. Before this game, Ridley was destroyed on the planet Zebes, blown apart. Now one could say that he had suffered near death experiences before and he does have the power to regenerate, and it's true. He has appeared again after seemingly being destroyed by Samus. So it could appear as though she should have no reason to be shocked by his return in Other M.

Except for one thing. Ridley was indeed destroyed for good in Super Metroid. First, he is blown apart by Samus and he falls into the lava. But this isn't what did him in. After all, this happened in the first Metroid, and he does blow apart in Metroid Prime 3 and yet still returns. No, what did him in was another factor that should not be overlooked and that's the fact the planet was blown apart. After Samus defeats Mother Brain, the entire planet is rigged to be blown up, not just a small section, but the entire planet. There's no way that Ridley could have survived this. All of his cells would have been obliterated.

It's even confirmed in Other M that he was destroyed for good, the original Ridley that is. So basically, Samus believed Ridley was finally gone. So when she sees him for the first time after years of never hearing anything from him, of course she's going to be in shock. If someone you thought was dead suddenly showed up after so long, wouldn't you be shaken up? I sure would, personally. Samus was not prepared to see him again and went into a state of shock, combined with PTSD, after seeing him again after several years.

You could bring up Dark Samus, who survived the destruction of Dark Aether and how Samus didn't become shocked to see her again. But take a moment and think about that for a moment. She seems able to easily switch between the light world and the dark world, just like Samus. She can move around freely in the form of particles like she had a few times in the game. She doesn't really need a physical body to move anywhere. She could have easily went through the portal with Samus when Dark Aether was destroyed.

And don't forget, Samus had seen Dark Samus pull herself back together right in front of her eyes in Metroid Prime 2, so it wouldn't have surprised her if Dark Samus came back after being blown up. This is very similar to Ridley, but with one difference. Ridley was organic and Dark Samus was not. She is basically a living suit powered by phazon. So long as there's phazon around, she can use it to recharge herself, which of course Samus is aware of.

So in the end, I feel being hard on Samus for reacting the way she did to Ridley is pretty harsh, especially when you try to look at things from her point of view and look at the facts presented by the franchise. No one is completely immune to breaking down, and breaking down doesn't make one a coward or any less human. Samus is still the brave, strong bounty hunter as she had been portrayed before.


4. "Samus obviously worships Adam because she's constantly worried about his opinion."

My answer: Another common complaint about this game, it seems. People have pointed out that Samus appears to worship Adam on some level as there are some points in the game where Samus is worried about Adam's opinion. There are also a few times where she talks about how Adam must have known this or must have known that, and she sometimes wonders what he would do in a situation. It is easy to see this as worshipping...if you care not to look at it at a deeper level.

Samus doesn't worship Adam. Instead, she respects him. Samus lost her parents at such a young age, and for a time was taken care of by the Chozo. While it is true she saw them as surrogate parents and loved them very much, this doesn't mean she is not able to attach to a human, her own species, in a similar way. When she went to the Galactic Federation for training, somewhere along the lines, she met Adam. As Other M explains, he was her commanding officer for a time. It's obvious that this time was quite a while, perhaps many years, due to the bond they developed, which was similar to father and daughter, not worshipper and worshippee.

Consider Adam's reaction when Samus returns after leaving. His treatment of her, for me, makes me think that he was disappointed in her, but not really all that angry with her. Even though he's upset that she turned her back on the federation, he still lets her tag along. If he really hated her, he would have asked her to leave. After all, his men are well equipped to handle themselves, so there wasn't much of a reason to have Samus stay. He let her stay because he still cared about her on an emotional level. Her leaving may have upset him because, just like Samus looked at him like a father, he may have looked at her like a daughter, if not that, then a friend.

The biggest evidence for Adam still caring about Samus is that he came after her before she could enter Sector 0 and stops her from going in. He even states that he's sacrificing himself to save her so she can live to fight another day. He didn't need to go after her. He could have completed his mission without saving her. But he still does it anyway. You could say that he was only doing it because she's one of the best defenses against Space Pirates and the metroids, but if that were the case, why did he just stop her and leave with her? Why go into Sector 0 at all? There might have been another way to disconnect Sector 0, or at least keep it sealed off. It's also not on the map so it would be difficult to stumble upon. It's also very well guarded so anyone who even finds the secret passage would need to get past the horde of enemies and the laser defenses. And let's add to the fact that, outside the Metroid Queen, the metroids of Sector 0 haven't escaped and are still sealed up inside.

So why even go into Sector 0 if the metroids are locked up and there's little chance that they could be found or escape? I think the answer to that is rather obvious. Adam didn't want Samus to kill herself by going in. He knows that she's stubborn, and it's evident that she is. Samus isn't the type to let other people die for her, and was more than willing to put her life on the line to save Adam. But Adam not only realizes that she's the most effective weapon against metroids, he cares about her and doesn't want her making such a suicidal move. So to make sure that she doesn't have a chance, he puts himself inside Sector 0 and dislodges it from the ship, ultimately preventing her from having a chance to face the Sector 0 metroids.

Watch Samus's reaction when he does finally leave. This isn't the reaction I would expect from a worshipper. It isn't as loud or as exaggerated as I would expect. Samus instead reacts like she just lost a father, or someone very close to her. She obviously disagrees with his decision, but she accepts it. She knows she can't change his mind and eventually accepts the decision that he made and made peace with it. She's able to compose herself and goes through the mission, just like he would have wanted, just like someone close to her would have wanted. This is also another piece of evidence that shows that Samus doesn't let her emotions get to her all the time; that even after the traumatic event of losing Adam, she's able to carry out her mission.

Samus states in the game that Adam was the closest thing she had to a father, and the evidence, for me, is clear. Their interaction is similar to father and daughter, if you look at it at a deeper level. The two had developed a close bond, and Samus even states that Adam understood her better than anyone. He didn't treat her differently simply because she was a lady. Another example of their close friendship is him saying "Any objections, lady?", which is his way of being funny, but not in a hurtful way. He wouldn't do that if they didn't share some kind of bond.

And the respect isn't just one way. Adam respects Samus as well. One of the most obvious examples of this is in the manga where he lets her go on her mission. He didn't have to. He had the authority to stop her. But he allows her to go anyway. You could say that he only did this because she would have attacked him, after all she did hold her weapon up to him. But think about that for a moment. Samus is well aware of Galactic Federation rules, since she had been a part of it for years. And she knows Adam is a high ranking officer and her attacking him would have had severe consequences. Why would Samus attack him if it would put her in trouble? Adam knew this, so he knew her threat was a bluff, so he still could have stopped her. You could say it was out of frustration, that he wanted to see her get killed. But then again, he's never portrayed to be that kind of person. He never makes sacrifices like that unless they were necessary, and there was no reason for him to sacrifice Samus at that time.

So the best explanation for that scene is that he respected her. He recognized her as a capable warrior. He trusted her opinion and felt that she could handle that mission she was putting herself on. So he allowed her to leave willingly. While you might disagree, you have to admit that him letting her go out of respect perfectly explains that scene. It explains why he didn't react negatively towards her threat, why he didn't have her arrested, and why he let her go on what was probably amongst her first real mission by herself.

Now back to the worshipping comment. I haven't seen any real account of her worshipping Adam. And no, asking herself what Adam would do isn't a sign of worship, nor is saying what he might have accomplished. To show an example of why this isn't worship, let's turn to another media story, Avatar the Last Airbender. There are several occasions where one character would say another character had done something, such as when Appa was shedding and Toph said that they were followed that way. There is an instance of Zuko trying to think of what Azula and Iroh would say in his situation when he tries to join the Avatar gang. Yet neither instance, nor any other similiar instance, a sign of worship in the show. Zuko doesn't worship his uncle and definitely not his sister. And characters don't think about what another character or characters did because they worship them; it's simply to understand a situation.

So how does this work in Other M? If thinking about what another would do or what they had done isn't a sign of worship, then why has it become that in Other M? Well I think it might have to do with Samus being worried about Adam's opinion. But then this isn't a sign of worship either. As stated above, she sees him as a father, so her being worried about his opinion makes sense in this case. But it isn't just that. Remember that Samus is not the leader of the group, but Adam is. Adam does have the authority to have Samus leave, even if she isn't part of the Galactic Federation. Samus may not be of GF but that doesn't mean that she is exempt from their rules; it doesn't mean that she cannot be forced to leave by a GF soldier. The ending proves this well when Samus was ordered to leave and forbidden to communicate with the survivor. So ultimatley Samus was not only worried about Adam's opinion of her out of seeing him as a father, but also because she wants to help and doesn't want to do anything to wreck the mission or be sent away.


5. "Samus blindly follows Adam's orders. She almost dies because of it!"

My answer: Ah yes, the scene where Samus goes through Sector 3 for a time without her Varia Suit turned on. When she is in the exposed heat, her health goes down. She has every opportunity to turn on her Varia Suit, but she does not. She is waiting for Adam to give the okay, but he doesn't authorize it until just before a boss fight. Why would Samus endure such danger and why would Adam not say anything to her until later?

Well it might seem that Samus was pretty stupid in this scene, but it has been established that she is a stubborn person. If she really has to go somewhere, she will go there. Her going through the super heated Sector 3 areas without her Varia Suit is her way of saying "I don't care what stands in my way, I will go through!" You can also see this as her way of being brave, enduring what has to be huge amounts of pain to get her mission accomplished. This can be used as evidence against the whole "Samus is cowardly" complaint against this game. After all, a real coward wouldn't have gone through this dangerous area at all, even with Varia Suit on.

Still it can be seen as foolish of her. But this is a good thing. Why? It helps her to become more human. You might disagree, but think about it. What's the point of having a human character if you aren't going to treat her realistically as a human? Everyone makes mistakes. Nobody is perfect, even if they want to believe they are. So having Samus do something rash like rushing headlong into danger without the proper protection shows that she's as human as we are, that she is capable of making mistakes. Another example of this would be at the end where she goes back to the Bottleship to get Adam's helmet and then leaves with only her Zero Suit, despite explosions and enemies everywhere. Her going back for his helmet not only shows that she had a strong bond with Adam, but it also shows more so that she's capable of making rash decisions based on emotion, making her even more human.

As for why Adam didn't say anything, he may have been trying to discourage her from continuing on so she won't find out about Sector 0. Though this would have been futile given her stubborn nature, so he may have been only impeding her progress. Another reason why he might have been doing this is because he was unaware that she didn't have her Varia Suit turned on. Her Power Suit in this game has the rounded shoulder pads just like Varia, so it is understandable that he would think she already had it turned on. The only difference is that her Varia is orange, not yellow like her normal Power Suit. Exactly why Adam didn't say anything until the boss fight is difficult to determine completely unless we knew whether or not he was the Deleter. Still, this doesn't mean that he had no reason for what he did and it doesn't mean that he didn't care.

There is evidence against the idea that she is blindly following his orders. One part of the game sets the record straight. There is a scene where Samus is giving chase to whom she believes to be the Deleter.  She continues following the supposed Deleter until they come to a bridge. He destroys the controls on one end and closes the bridge on the other. Samus stands there for a moment, and quickly makes her decision. Rather than restrain herself because of Adam, she defies him by saying "Any objections, Adam?" and turns on her space jump anyway, without authorization. There is another scene where Samus even seems to, to an extent, doubt Adam when she finds that he signed the document regarding metroid breeding, though this turns out that he was actually against it. But she only finds that out later. This is evidence against her worshipping him. Think about it. If she really did worship him, why would she doubt him, even for a second? Why hadn't she blindly defended him when she had no proof of his intentions?

Ultimately, I feel that the main reason people complain about her blindly following Adam's orders is that they are used to Samus doing her own thing. They want Samus to take orders from no one, to be her own leader. But they fail to realize that, as stated earlier, Samus almost never went on a mission of her own accord. Nearly every game involves her being assigned a mission and taking orders in some form or other. So why they are complaining, I'm not sure. There's little evidence to really support what they claim.


6. "Samus monologues way too much. It ruins her character."

My answer: Well this is true...but only to an extent. Samus does indeed talk, well in monologue, too much. There were scenes where even I admit I got frustrated, but only because I wanted to get back to the game, not because I thought her character was ruined. Far from it, her monologues did offer insight into her character, and what goes on in her mind. It gives better understanding to the player of what Samus's mind goes through when she makes a decision, what her hopes and fears are, among other things.

Samus doesn't really talk verbally so much. A lot of her dialogue is spoken through her head. Yes it does seem strange that she would talk the way she does in her mind. But then, is that as abnormal as some might believe? A lot of people, including myself, do talk to themselves during a situation, some possibly even verbally. It's a normal habit and there's nothing really wrong with it. Though even given that explanation, some can argue that nobody talks in their mind the way Samus does. This might be true, though there's still a rebuttal for that.

Samus is recounting her adventures with someone. If you were to look at the game like a flashback, suddenly Samus's long monologues make sense. It is very likely that she is telling someone what has been going on, and during certain points of the game, we hear her talking to this person. She's telling a story, and explaining what she had felt at the time. She wants to make sure the person she is talking to understands what she is saying, so she makes sure she puts in as much detail as possible.

Samus's monologues help build her character. Her monologues helped me to get her know her better, as well as other gamers. The only way it ruins her character is that it gives her thoughts, emotions, makes her feel more human. But then that isn't really ruining her character, unless you happen to be one of the fanboys who sees Samus as nothing more than an unemotional robot that's always set to kill mode. While I admit that she might talk a little too much, I am grateful that her monologues help show that Samus is not just some killing machine; she is an emotional human being. She is just like you or me or anyone else, in that there are things that frighten her, things that worry her, that she is capable of making mistakes, etc.


7. "Samus is supposed to be an unemotional action girl. She always has been in the past."

My Answer: Um, no. No she hasn't. She has been portrayed as tough, I admit, but this isn't the same as unemotional. There has been numerous times in the past that show that Samus is a thinking, feeling person and isn't as cold as some people might want her to be.

For instance, let's look at Metroid Prime 2. In this game, Samus crash lands on an alien planet where a luminoth, the only one awake, contacts her. He tells her what has happened to the planet and asks her to defeat their deadly enemies, the Ing. Samus has no reason to help him, however. She never met him before and knew nothing about this planet before she came. But in the end, she still helps them out. She puts her life on the line, going into the dangerous Dark Aether, and fights off the Ing. Why? It's not because she was forced to do it. The luminoth did not force her to and he had little power to make her do what he wanted. No, she did it because she wanted to help. She did it because she isn't an unemotional action girl.

Then let's look at the endings of Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 3. In the first Prime game, the Chozo structure, after defeating the boss Metroid Prime, explodes. Samus is clearly horrified by this, as evidenced by her expression. Though she says nothing, it's clear that it hurt her deeply that a Chozo structure is destroyed. This makes sense, since the Chozo were her surrogate parents for several years before she joined the Galactic Federation. Then let's look at Metroid Prime 3. At the ending, Samus is seem reminiscing about the other hunters that she had no choice but to kill. Whether or not they are good friends is debateable, but regardless of their relationship, Samus is obviously still depressed that she had to fight them, and sad that they were killed. If she were truly as unemotional as some fans claim she is, why would she look so sad at the end of Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 3?

In the manga, Samus, despite being a rookie at the time, attacks Space Pirates in an attempt to defend a girl, one she didn't know anything about. She also did it to save the other children as well as their home. She didn't know them and she had no reason to intervene. She could have just called the GF and let them handle it. But Samus helps out because she is a very moral character and she knew it might have been too late if she just contacted the GF or someone else to stop them. She didn't want to see those people hurt, so she decided to put a stop to it. Her moral conscious would not let her just not do anything. And also, there is another scene later on, when Samus is older, where she saves another from a deadly creature that disguised itself as a plant. She could have easily turned away, and yet she does not.

It's even obvious in games before Other M that Samus had a moral conscious. In all the games I played, I notice one recurring pattern. Samus never attacks unless she realizes what she's looking at is a threat. When she faces something she hadn't before or doesn't recognize, she waits. She might race her arm cannon, but this is just in self defense; she never actually fires unless she is attacked first or she realizes that what she's seeing is a threat to her. You can see this in multiple fights she's in. For instance, in the first boss fight for Dark Samus, notice that Samus doesn't really attack until Dark Samus attacks her first. You can see similar patterns in other parts of the game.

One could say that Samus does attack first sometimes with creatures she hasn't seen or aren't much of a threat to her, for instance geemers. But keep in mind they still hurt her and apparently do attack Samus as seen in Other M. The smaller creatures are, as established in the manga as well as the games in some cases, that the creatures are hostile. Many creatures throughout the game do attack Samus and try to do her harm. So you can see her attacking them as out of self defense rather than a true act of cruelty. In the manga, when a group of creatures start attacking with guns, Samus doesn't destroy them; only the guns, disarming them. This shows that she didn't really want to kill them; she wanted to end the conflict peacefully.

The point is that Samus is not the type to attack first and ask questions later. No, instead she simply waits and sees if she is actually in any danger or not. The games, as well as manga, strongly support her as being more of a pacifist than a fighter. She only attacks if she realizes that she is in danger. Otherwise, she will not attack. She may be cautious of someone she doesn't know or recognize, but she will not do them harm unless they prove themselves a danger to her. She sees no reason to cause unnecessary harm to others and would rather talk than shoot, unless forced to do otherwise.


There may be other points I am missing or forgetting to bring up, but I think that about covers the basics. In short, I feel Metroid: Other M is an underestimated, misjudged game. The biggest threat to this game are obsessed fanboys who are unable to contemplate Samus having emotions and mistaking them as weakness, and who seem to refuse to see that Samus's behavior in the game is supported within the franchise. The manga became canon to Metroid prior to Metroid Prime 3, around when Metroid: Zero Mission came out (if you played the game you'll know that stills from the manga were used).

While I understand that my comments may not satisfy some people, I hope that it clears up any confusion or misunderstandings some people may be having about the game. I do recommend it (though be aware it is more difficult to master than previous installments), and it has some of the best cinematics and graphics I've seen on the Wii, personally. And I should point out that the style of the story is more similar to anime than american shows. Rather than focusing solely on logic, the game involves a lot of emotion, which is not necessarily a bad thing. It is just another style of story telling. For me it doesn't make the story "melodramatic"; I just look at it as story telling.

Well that's all I have to say on the subject for now.
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: Campion1 on March 27, 2012, 01:04:27 AM
http://youtu.be/qMI1-DDklqE (http://youtu.be/qMI1-DDklqE)

Glad I haven't gotten too much into this series outside of the gameplay
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: LoyfeCycleProtector on July 14, 2013, 06:54:18 PM
God, has it really only been two years since this game came out? Regardless of wether you liked Other M or not (I didn't even play it, so I couldn't say), there's no denying that it has been incredibly polarizing for fans, gamers, reviewers and commentators alike.

I was stumbling around youtube today, looking though some of the old Metroid Other M reviews, when I found this video. This is youtuber apprently adapted an article he read about what the writer percieved was an issue in the game that no one has been discussing. It really hit me in the gut.

Wether or not you agree with the analysis, the video presents its case and makes makes some very damning accusations towards the team behind Other M's creation, and it does an incredible job of making its argument. Even if you don't agree with the accusations being made, I think it's hard to deny, given the evidence presented, that the game CAN be interpreted in this light, wether intentional or not. It's a long video, and the narrator has a funny sounding voice, but the pacing of this video thesis is superb, and I feel I should at least do justice to its quality by presenting it here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX0C0z9Db00 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX0C0z9Db00)
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: pokeplayer984 on July 01, 2014, 05:09:02 PM
Okay, I have to say this because it was something I recently found out about and I just have to give my opinion on it after doing some research.

Basically, the haters of this game have gotten PATHETIC!  How much so, you ask?  They are trying to disprove certain games in the Metroid Universe to being cannon.

The main culprits that are attacked are this game (*sarcasm* Big surprise! */sarcasm*) and the Prime Trilogy.  Which is only attacked because the creator said they were "side stories", but really, that doesn't disprove them as cannon at all.

In the end, it's just a last ditch pathetic attempt to try and disprove the ones who defended Samus' personality in Other M.  The haters had a certain vision of Samus that they did not want disproven and it's just sad that they had to resort to this.

If you saw the true level of it, you'd see just how pathetic it really was. :(
Title: Metroid: Other M
Post by: DarkHououmon on July 01, 2014, 05:43:19 PM
There is something interesting I heard regarding Other M. While I knew it was based on the manga, supposedly it was a retcon, and thus actually takes place in its own universe.

It's mentioned by this Youtuber called... Gaiji Goombah or something. The name slips me at the moment. He doesn't mention this as a way to bash the game; the video was a rant he did about how people are complaining about Samus's look in the new Smash Brothers game, but the first thing he does before that is talk about how sick and tired he is of people still flipping out about Other M.

His statement can be summed up as this: Look, it might not have been the wisest move to create a Metroid game based off a retcon manga, but it happened okay? Get over it. And I don't know about you, but if the killer of my parents came back to life suddenly, I'd be freaking out, too.

However, even if it is true and the manga and Other M are alternate universes to the main storyline, it doesn't really mean they are "less". Other M Samus isn't any less "true" than Super Metroid Samus. Unfortunately, there are fans who will dismiss a vision of a character just because they don't like it, and pretend they don't exist.