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Wow! LBT 10 was like that?

pokeplayer984

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I finally got to see 10, and I'm at a loss for words.

Reason why, is because from what I've heard about it, it's rather underrated to me.  People just don't seem to understand it, and what we don't understand, we misjudge.

I don't see where Bron's story doesn't make sense.  Give me where it doesn't make sense, and I bet I can show you how it does. (Understand though, it's a little complex and not that simple to understand.)

One thing I found incredibly interesting is Shorty.  From what I heard, I was expecting something rather kind and simple.  I was surprised when I found Shorty was a, dare I say it, bully.  The way he treated Littlefoot, it seemed that he wanted nothing to do with him.  In a simple understanding, he wanted to be his enemy.  They say that the greatest test of making a friend is making one out of your enemy.  Littlefoot accomplished that and made a friend I would've never expected him to have.

Finally, what surprised me most, was with where it was going, those seeing it for the first time, and having zero knowledge of 11 existing, (Though nowadays I don't see how that's possible.) would think that 10 was it for the gang.  That it was over basically.  The final song, "Best Friends", was basically a goodbye song.  If Littlefoot did go with his dad, that would've been it.  With just a few steps of Littlefoot's goodbye, the series would've ended.  However, I now see that his friends are a part of his life that he doesn't want to let go.  The gang is more like a family than anything else.  Splitting family apart is very hurtful.  I can understand how it feels myself.  It's just hard to let go.

To me, in all truth, 10 is misunderstood.  There's more to it then realized.  Of course, with how complex of a piece of work it is, I'm not too surprised others misunderstand it now that I think about it.

In conclusion, I was expecting this to suck and found it to be one of the best.  It's just misunderstood to some.  That's all there is to it.


Malte279

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Being one of the most notorious critics of the land before time 10 I reckon it is for me to give some answers on your questions.
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I don't see where Bron's story doesn't make sense. Give me where it doesn't make sense, and I bet I can show you how it does. (Understand though, it's a little complex and not that simple to understand.)
1. To explain all the discrepancies of Bron's story, we need to remember the original movie. The story he is telling must have begun shortly before the beginning of the original land before time movie.
Yet where were Bron and Littlefoot's mother (whom they didn't bother to give so much as the same color she had in the original movie) in a lush, green, Great Valley like landscape. The landscape they showed was just a perfect nesting place for Bron and his wife. There was no point for him to leave his pregnant wife to look for a better place. They had a really good place already!
2. The way Bron tells the story it appears that almost the moment he left the world turned upside down and changed into the desolate wasteland we know from the original movie. This is highly unlikely and doesn't seem at all the way the situation is described in the original movie. Even if it was a sudden change from paradise to wasteland, would not a responsible Bron have returned immediately to find his wife and unborn hatchling? According to his tale he did, but if this was true, how come he didn't find them? First of all, if there was such a sudden change of situation I reckon Littlefoot's mother would have waited for Bron as long as possible, as she and her parents (the way the contact between Bron and Littlefoot's grandparents is shown we can take it for granted they are not Bron's parents) knew he was going to return as soon as he could (if he ever meant to return). Even if lack of food forced them to move on after all (Bron must have been really far away indeed not to be back by that time) it would have been easy enough for Bron to follow the fresh trail of three grownup longnecks (As Cera pointed out in LBT 10 they leave clear tracks) who certainly tried to leave a clear trail for Bron to follow. There is absolutely no justification why Bron didn't return to his wife right away!
3. So even if we assume that, in his overeagerness to find even better a nesting place for his dear wife, Bron had wandered so far off that he couldn't possibly be back in time to pick up the trail and reunite with his wife his eagerness to find Littlefoot may be doubted for the points I'm going to explain.
The existence of the Great Valley was obviously not a secret. Littlefoot told Ducky in the original movie that his mother had told him that all herds were heading there. Yet Bron, despite the fact he claims to have done everything to find his son (even after learning about the death of his wife) apparently didn't think to look at the most logical place. Was he the only one who never ever heard about the Great Valley? Even if nobody ever told him it is interesting to recall how Littlefoot's mother knew about the Great Valley "Some things you see with your eyes! Others you see with your heard!" Apparently Bron's heart never told him anything, a point I won't argue as I doubt so cold a heart as his would talk.
However, there is no justification for Bron never ever to search for his son at the place that was obviously the most logical destination for him to go!
4. I can hear the enraged shouts. How dare I calling this gentle longneck and great leader cold-heartet?
I'll lay it out to you. We are all very fond of him for taking care of Shorty and all the poor defenseless longneck kids he found when he was allegedly looking for his son. But he doesn't! Just take a look at that flashback. He checks whether his son is among the kids, finds he isn't, and moves on. Bron doesn't even open his mouth. No word of encouragement, no question if they know anything about the whereabouts of his son, and least of all an invitation to the kids to come along with him. He didn't decide to take care of the kids. They just followed him, knowing it would be safer for them and Bron apparently didn't mind. He did not offer his protection to them, they just took it.
Shorty in particular is a good example for Bron's indifference. You think Shorty (a character by the way whom I consider one of the positive points about LBT 10) would have ever turned into a bully if Bron had cared about him beyond saving him from being killed so long he stayed close enough? Throughout the whole movie the only scene in which Bron shows direct kindness to Shorty is when during the herd's departure he takes him onto his head. Shorty might have considered Bron a father, but Bron did not consider him a son. Just listen to what he told Littlefoot. All the others found parents, but not Shorty. I really pity Shorty. Bron seems to be more like a leader than a parent to him. It is not for kindness that Bron took care of anyone!
5. Speaking of taking care, let's take a look at how much Bron cares about his herd. He says he cannot accompany Littlefoot and his grandparents to the Great Valley as he has to go back to his herd. Now that's noble, isn't it? He would so much like to come along with his son, but he will sacrifice his personal luck for the wellbeing of his herd which apparently cannot survive a day without him...
But wait a second, is not the herd supposed to be right there, at the crater where the solar eclipse occurred? All longnecks were supposed to be there!
We know that all longnecks were not there. Ali and her herd was missing and so was Doc. There must have been quite a few who either didn't have that dream or didn't get there in time. But how is it possible that Bron and a part of his herd was there, but another part wasn't? There is no doubt that not all of Bron's herd was there, as he told Littlefoot he was looking forward to introduce him to the rest of the herd. Now can you give me a reason why Bron would leave what must be a considerable part of the herd rather than leading all of them there? I have a theory and as you may expect it doesn't cast a positive light on Bron, but I beg you to give me a better reason.
It appears that Bron left behind the part of his herd that was too slow to make it to the crater in time for the solar eclipse. If he really did, doesn't that mean that he must've left the old, the weak, the too young kids etc. behind? Not the kind of herd members a good leader should leave to their fate! I just hope he left some strong longnecks behind to protect them. Bron must have something that makes other dinosaurs follow him, but he doesn't show any of the responsibility true leadership demands!
6. Did you notice how Bron talked to Littlefoot about sharpteeth? "Sharpteeth are cowards!" Even though the statement seems to apply to the extremely harmless sharpteeth in the land before time 10 I wish he would say that into the face of the sharptooth who killed Littlefoot's mother!
Bron's statement is a generalization and it is also quite insensitive talking this way in front of Littlefoot whose mother was killed by a sharptooth. Also I wonder if Littlefoot thought of Chomper when his father said this. Wouldn't Chomper be a perfect counterproof? It does take courage to attack a grownup sharptooth while you are still a hatchling, and it does take courage (even for a grownup sharptooth) to attack huge leafeaters.
Bron doesn't need to fear sharpteeth, for he is invulnerable! We see a sharptooth biting his leg, but it doesn't cause much more than an "Ouch". We don't see a scratch, Bron doesn't limb or anything. They could've made all this so much more dramatic if they had stirred up some memories about the death of Littlefoot's mother. Bron is arrogant and invulnerable!
7. Bron had given Littlefoot up! Even though he apparently never heard anything about him after learning about the death of his mother, he just stopped looking. What Bron says to Littlefoot is: "I can't wait to introduce you to the others back home". The statement leaves no doubt that Bron's herd is not a herd of migrators (as Ali's) but has one place to stay, similar to the Great Valley I suppose. This fact does weaken the reproach of Bron being irresponsible for leaving the herd to head for the place where the solar eclipse takes place. So long he leaves them at a save, protected place...
However, it also raises the question why they depend on him at all. If they are in a place save enough to be left behind there by Bron (a place where they have stayed long enough to call it home), what for do they need a leader anyway? The Great Valley doesn't have one leader either, and there is not a one of the dinosaurs in the Great Valley that is so important for the Valley that his or her departure would cause any serious harm for the Valley's population.
8. Finally, if Bron was indeed so great and admirable character, how come that in nine previous movies he was so much ignored, that Littlefoot didn't even know he had a dad? Was there a good reason for Littlefoot's grandparents to try to conceal Bron from Littlefoot? Perhaps so. Littlefoot's grandparents may well have intended not to tell Littlefoot about Bron, fearing that he would risk his life trying to find his father. Still I'm not sure that explaination justifies leaving Littlefoot so ignorant he didn't even know he had a Dad.

I haven't yet mentioned every single point that make me dislike Bron, but as this thread is not only about him, but also about LBT 10 in general there are several more points I would like to address:
9. The whole story about all longnecks having the same dream which makes them heading for the same place should at least have been better explained. We know Littlefoot's grandparents from nine previous land before time movies (okay, make that eight as they didn't really play an active part in the original movie). From those movies we know Littlefoot's grandparents as very careful characters (just think of any scene when there is talk about the Mysterious Beyond). Yet in the land before time 10 their decision to leave the Great Valley (just two old longnecks and a kid) appears a really rash one. I'm sure these dreams were something important enough if we had been told a bit more about it. It would have been time for a "some things you see with your eyes others you see with your hard"-type of message. Maybe they could've even included something more than dreams by just making the legend Pat told a just a little more known. That would have been a reason I would feel much more comfortable about.
10. Another example of strange behaviour of characters concerns Cera's, Petrie's, Ducky's, and Spike's reaction upon learning that Littlefoot considers leaving them. The scene is the emotional climax of the movie and I really like the song "Bestest friends". But don't you find they seem to have a bit too less of a problem to let Littlefoot go for good? They hardly stop smiling upon hearing the news and they don't make the slightest attempt to keep Littlefoot with them. Highly considerate behaviour no doubt, but after all they have gone through together I would have expected at least an incling of true reluctance to give him up for somebody who could just as well come to the Great Valley.
11. The animation of the movie also had several shortcommings in my opinion:
The way they showed the solar-eclipse was very unrealistic. They showed the moon as a black circle long before it even came in front of the sun and the colouring of the sky too appeared almost as if a solar eclipse the way it is is not spectacular enough, they even felt they had to put a shower of shooting stars in, like a solar eclipse was not spectacular enough.
I experienced a solar eclipse in August 1999 and memorized my impressions. It was amazing. The eclipse could be felt before one saw it. The temperatur suddenly dropped and the air became chilly. There was no sudden shadow falling whose edge one could see, but the light became twilight and finally darkness when the moon moved before the sun...
They have the habit to tinge the sky red almost always when there is danger since LBT 5. I never liked this. This bad habit had a "tragic" climax in LBT 10 that gave me a real shudder. Not only the sky, but also the landscape, my goodness, even the characters turned red!
Unlike most other people I do not like the new 3D animation very much, at least not all of it. There are elements created by the computer which fit very well to the hand-drawn characters or landscapes. The water in LBT 9 for example looked great. However, much of the photo realistic pictures to me looks almost as if it had been taken from a different movie and just "inserted" into LBT (the mossy tree-branch Littlefoot climbs up for example).
^ Note that the last three points are mainly a matter of taste rather than anything fact based, so they just represent my subjective opinion.
12. The sharpteeth were just stupid! What has become of the impressive sharpteeth from the original movies and sequels 2, 3, 5, 6, and 9? I already pointed out that Bron is invulnerable to sharpteeth bites, but that Shorty can trip a grownup sharptooth by creeping under it's foot is a real outrage!
Remember the sharptooth from the original movie. What do you think would have happened if a longneck had crawled under its foot? That’s right! And that is why young longnecks should not deliberately crawl under a sharptooth's foot!
Then there was the thing with the stones. I really don't think that any of the LBT characters is strong enough to kick or hurl a stone large enough to do more than bother a sharptooth over such far a distance. A sharptooth tripling about a few little stones thrown in front of his feet... really that must be either extremely smooth and slippery stones or an extremely clumsy sharptooth. The sharpteeth in LBT 10 were for my opinion almost reduced to a ridiculous entertainment for the young dinosaurs! That's not what sharpteeth are supposed to be.


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^ I've a feeling whatever he said, I agree with since I've heard Malte's take on this before.  ;)  Good idea gone bad.

Also, let's remember who we are--teens or twenty-somethings.  We overanalyze these films because we can.  An eight year old isn't going to care whether Bron had actually given Littlefoot up for dead or not.  It's a new character.  And hey...that solar eclipse looked pretty darn cool on that widescreen tv!   :rolleyes:  Now, I've never seen one, but I really don't think the whole atmosphere turns purple.


pokeplayer984

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Whoa!  Malte279, I think you're too much of a hardcore LBT fan. (Meant to be a compliment.) However, you do make good points that make the story rather confusing now that I look at it from this angle.

I'm really going to have to do some deep research to really come up with something.  Give me a little time here.  I'm pretty sure his story is true, I'm just going to have to find something that will prove it.


Malte279

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I think you're too much of a hardcore LBT fan.
With all the pros and cons, no doubt  :lol:
A con of course is that it is much harder for me to be really satisfied with a story which most others can wholeheartedly enjoy.
I'm most happy that the length of the message did not stop you from reading it. Maybe I am being unfair by blaming Bron. It is more like the creators of LBT 10 showed a disappointing lack of care. From a strictly inside LBT point of view however we cannot have Littlefoot complaining about the ones who invented the stories he is going to. So it is Bron I have to question.


pokeplayer984

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Okay, I have carefully studied what you have said to me, and have come to one little conclusion of why Bron's story didn't make sense to you...

You took it FAR too seriously.

Now, understand that the various counterproofs I'm going to make are rather confusing, but understandable.  Also, understand that it's going to take all of them together to prove Bron's innocence.  So please, if I don't finish, don't try to counterproof me, because it takes ALL the points I will make to prove me right.

1. To get point one out of the way, there is not really a 100% indication of when such a change happened.  Nor is there any real indication of how it happened.  For all we know, it could've been anything to make such a change.  Obviously, whatever was coming, both of Littlefoot's parents saw it coming and prepared for the worst the best they could.  Also, just because it's lush and green, doesn't mean that it's safe.  This is proven to us in the second movie.  Despite the Great Valley being such a great place, it still has it's dangers.  Plus, with how it was desgined, we can easily confirm that Sharpteeth probably attacked wherever it all started every single day. (That big hole that Bron went through to exit wherever they lived is probably as big as the one The Great Wall had.) It was not the place for Littlefoot to grow up.  Plus, take a look at Littlefoot's nest right when we see him as an egg.  There are 5 of them total, including Littlefoot.  4 of them were sadly broken into.  With such dangers, Littlefoot's lucky to even be alive.  It proved to be very unsafe.

Now, going back to the first movie, we know that the leaves were beginning to die, yet we don't know what caused such a thing to happen.  However, with this information, there is no doubt that the cause destroyed a good amount of the food that was provided.  With danger and a coming cause that made a very big lack of food, there was no choice but to leave.

2. Like I said, there is no real indication dictating of when the dramatic change happened.  He could've been gone for days before it happened.  Let's put in the most logical thing that would make it happen, a metor.  As I read in an article once that indicated the most likely cause of the dinosaurs' extinction, a metor striking the earth makes dramatic changes.  Not only does the sun get blocked out, but any volcanoes nearby become VERY active, making them spew out an uncontrolable amount of lava and ash. (We have to suggest a volcano being nearby in order to make such a tropical place existable.) Earthquakes strike at a multitude that is unnormal, and worst of all, the dust and ash that is carried into the atmosphere causes acid rain.  Destroying all the leaves it hits.  The metor wasn't as big as the one that killed off the dinosaurs, but it was still big enough to cause quite some damage.

So, if it was a metor, than it was a sudden change, it just didn't happen until a good time after Bron left.

Also, what I like to call "The Great Earthshake", the one in the first movie, was the earthquake of all earthquakes.  It could easily destroy footprints without even trying, even the biggest.  It could also mess up the trail in just one second.  Plus, even if the trail was lucky to survive, it would've been easily cut up by "a rise of vertical rock."

He said that he returned to the nest JUST AS THE EARTHQUAKE HIT.  There was no way for him to follow them because of The Great Earthshake.

Okay, I have to leave this for now, but I will finish it.

Remember, it takes ALL my points to prove Bron's innocence.


Malte279

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Hi pokeplayer984!
I will wait for your other points before writing anything.
I want to say that I'm most delighted that not only you read the message but also seriously consider points but don't just waver from your own points  :)
Really I appreciate this very, very much and I'm looking forward to a discussion that need not to end with either of us being convinced of the other one's points, but that will certainly help us to understand the points of the other one.
I would be happy if in the future I can have a kinder image of Bron in mind, but my own quest for points on his behalf was not successful (which may also be because of what is a personal problem I have with LBT 10 apart from the facts, namely that it contradicts a story I have been writing since 2002. Of course this may have clouded my objective vision to a certain degree).
I'm looking forward to how this discussion will continue  :yes


pokeplayer984

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Okay, continuing on then.

3.  Getting around point three was probably the most time consuming, but once I found something rather important, it was very easy.

I have no doubt that he was trying to find his son.  Also, he was told of the Sharptooth incident, and who out there really knows of such an incident?  As we have come to know, VERY FEW came to know of such a thing.  He was very lucky to even run into someone who knew of Littlefoot's Mother dying.

Oh sure, someone probably did tell him of The Great Valley, however after carefully studying Bron's character, I came to a rather startiling conclusion with something I'm VERY familiar with.  Bron isn't coldhearted, he's dense! :o

Dense charcters many times show such coldhearted like character that I am quite familiar in seeing with Bron.  The obviousness doesn't come to them and they have to be basically told right in the face of such a thing.  THAT is a VERY common thing with denseness.

With Bron being dense, he didn't even think to look in The Great Valley.

4.  Like I said, obviousness doesn't come to those who are dense.

I basically believe that someone like him would conclude that someone was nearby to take care of them when he first met them.  Later, after a good amount of time that we didn't see, he probably asked them, "Why are you following me?" They simply tell him that they have no one to take care of them.  So, seeing no other conclusion, he just simply makes the offer.

He's obviously not aware of how much Shorty looks up to him.  Those who are dense only see someone who is born of their blood as their son.  Littlefoot basically saw this, and that was the reason why he made the offer to Shorty for them to be brothers.  Littlefoot understood that Bron just basically didn't see it and did what he could to make Bron see that.

Littlefoot knew that Shorty saw Bron as a father, yet because of Bron's denseness, he didn't see Shorty as a son.  Before Littlefoot was told that Shorty wasn't adopted by Bron, I believe that Littlefoot believed because of how much Shorty looks up to Bron that he was possibly an adopted member of the family.  Sadly, that was not true.

With Bron being dense, it's hard for him to see someone he cares about as family and only blood is seen as family to denseness.

5.  Okay, this one was really tough, and I thought you had me, but then I thought of something and you won't believe it.

They say that the greatest of friends are the hardest to leave.  Despite being dense, he has such a close bond with the herd, that it's just too hard to leave them.

I know what you're saying there, "Strange that he doesn't have such a strong bond with Shorty then." However, denseness is something that's rather difficult to understand.  With denseness, it's just a thing of "don't ask, just know" jurisdiction that you have to go with.

He, as a dense leader, would understand whatever reason others had to not go and not ask questions about it.  

Yet again, "don't ask, just know."

There are those who are stubborn, and despite them possibly having the dream, they didn't see it as something to look forward to. (I wouldn't be surprised if this was the view of "Old One." Which would explain why Ali's herd isn't there.)

"Don't ask, just know."

I will also agree that there are those who didn't believe in him because they didn't have the dream.  A few of them might be strong ones.  So there is a good possiblity that he did leave those behind that are strong, yet didn't believe him.

Once again, "Don't ask, just know."

The point of "Don't ask, just know" thing really makes you have a different view of it all in the end I bet.

I will get to the other points later.  I don't have the time right now, but I promise to get to them when I can.

(Wait until you see how I do the next point.)


pokeplayer984

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Okay, let's continue.

6.  I understand whole heartedly what you're saying with this one.  However, I will not deny Bron's strongly put opinion in Sharpteeth.  My guess is that he's grown up around coward-like Sharpteeth all his life.  Indeed, I too wish he would say such a thing in front of Sharptooth.  However, I fully understand that it's most likly from life experiences that he sees them as cowards.

I also understand the courage it takes to attack something that's pretty huge, then again, with something like a T-rex, it ends up being the same size as a Brontosaurus fully grown, and let's just say when something is the same size as you or smaller, you really aren't that scared.

Also, as I recall, Littlefoot's mother was the first to attack Sharptooth, and let me just ask this little question, "How do we feel when someone hits us?" We want to hit them back, right?  Right!  Of course, Sharptooth took it to a rather violent level.

Of course, if Littlefoot put any defiance in his father's strongly put opinion in Sharpteeth, I could just imagine the trouble he'd get into.  I believe that he did think about these possible counters to Bron's opinion, however, he also thought about how much trouble he'd get into, and when meeting your dad after years of not knowing him, it's not a good idea to get into any trouble.

Also, I'd say it's a good thing I watched all of those "Nature" shows. (I mainly started watching them because I was bored.  However, in time, I became a fan.) From those shows, I have come to learn that several predators have alot of control over their powerful jaws.  With the power provided, they can choose when to either hurt, limp, wound and even kill their prey.  I believe that, for one of the oddest reasons, the Sharptooth that bit Bron chose to only hurt him.  I also understand that there are some creatures that have some rather tough skin to break through, and as I recall, alot of power was definately put into the bite that killed Littlefoot's mother.  So, I highly believe that Longnecks have a good amount of protection in their skin. (Some more than others.) So, I think it was only natural that Bron only ended up getting hurt and nothing worse.

7. I find it hard to believe that you came up with this according to what I see.

I do not believe for one second that Bron gave Littlefoot up.  With the fact that he was so dense that he didn't even think to look in The Great Valley, it ends up saying alot.  Of course, the herd did come to depend on Bron for some unexplainable reason.  As leader, he was put in a tight spot.  A herd is like a family. (We have come to understand this with Littlefoot and his friends.) I believe several members got to him as family.  And let's just say that when it comes to a dense leader, they decide that the one you are with now is more important.

I know that may make him seem like he was cold-hearted, but I bet he took it with the heaviest of hearts.  I ask you, what choice did this leader have?

As cold-hearted as it may sound, it was a better choice for him to stay with the herd then to look for Littlefoot.  He really didn't have much choice but to stop looking.

8. In a simple understanding, they thought he was dead!

Just take a look at Grandpa Longneck's reaction when he saw Bron.  It holds all the face-like features, tones and emotions brought on that I would expect to come out of him when he sees someone he thought was dead.  Especially his own son.

Also, they understand that Littlefoot still takes the loss of his mother pretty hard whenever it's discussed.  Even though it's been years since his mother died, he still has yet to get over it.  Imagine if such a bit of news was brought up.  The possiblity of his dad being dead as well brings up alot to be said.

This also explains why Grandpa Longneck was very reluctant to tell Littlefoot who was right in front of him.  Everything sinking in and all.  Someone he thought was dead, but is in reality 100% alive.

They were basically afraid of how Littlefoot would react to it.

They decided to wait until either he was old enough to handle it or he just brought up the question for some odd reason.  They knew that Littlefoot wasn't ready to accept it yet.

9. I have come to know Grandma and Grandpa Longneck quite well, and understand them to have quite a good amount of wisdom.

Those who are wise come to understand that when the same dream happens constantly and to others as well, it is no coincidence.  They knew that because of this, it was telling them something.  It's kinda like basic instinct.  Something deep inside was guiding them.  Because of them costantly having the dream, they knew they had to be somewhere.

I too would say that it would be better explained if the legend was given to them, but not once did they show that they had any knowledge of the legend before they left for the journey.  Why it never got around to them, I won't ask and just know.

Yes, "Don't ask, just know."

Due to their wisdom, they knew it wasn't a coincidence that they had the same dream constantly, and just knew that they had to be somewhere.

10. Well, that seems a little strange to me.  In the version I hold, they definately showed a good amount of sadness at this news.  In that full sense, I must ask what kind of version you have?

In the version I hold they show a great amount of reluctance with their face.

Of course they don't want him to leave, but what kind of friend are you to deprive such a great friend of your own that choice?

I'd say it was done in the greatest way possible.  The message of the song basically said that "no matter what, they would always be his friends."

If he left, they would always remember him.  They would see him in their dreams and feel him in their hearts. (I don't think there's any words that are more emotional than that in the song.) They would think of him each day and see his smily face.

No matter what, no matter what hardships came, no matter what seperated them, they would always be his friends.  The greatest friends he could ever have in his entire life.

Also, they weren't giving him up, they were giving him more.

They all know what it's like to have someone who is as close as a dad is.  Littlefoot never had that.  They knew this was his chance to experience that.  They knew he really wanted to go with his dad, and they didn't want to deprive him of that.

In conclusion to this point, they weren't out of charcter, they did it in the most perfect way it could possibly be done.

Still got a bit more I want to discuss.  Will finish it later. :)


Malte279

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Still got a bit more I want to discuss. Will finish it later.
Please hurry, I'd like to respond and I may soon not have as much time for it as I have these days, as there are many written university tasks to be dealt with.  :)
So I will just give one statement about the impression I have so far:
You thought quite a lot about the whole matter and some of your thesises are quite interesting; however, a lot of it is a rather shaky construct in my opinion. Too much "Don't ask, just know" matters in case of points where there are much simpler explanations which do support my points though.
As I said though, I do not consider this discussion a "competion" which cannot be solved without one of us giving up the own point of view. I consider it a highly interesting discourse and really appreciate the effort you are putting into it :)


pokeplayer984

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Well, sorry to be taking so long.  However, there is alot to discuss, so that might explain a bit of why I'm taking so long.  That and I happen to be one who has a life. (Not saying that you don't.  I wouldn't be surprised if you did really.) :)

11.  Let me just say that it was alot better for them to do the solar eclipse like that than you may think.  Why, you ask?  Let me introduce you to a little situation of a certian show that shall remain unnamed.

In a certian episode, the show put in realistic effects into something that was quite harmful to the eyes.  As a result of their carelessness to take nessacary percautions, many people who watched it ended up getting blind, having seizures, etc.  The company which produced it was then highly sued for these acts, nearly going bankrupt in the process.  Also, the show was put on hiatus and nearly completly banned from ever being seen to the public eye.  Also, the fandom level dropped extremely rapidly, making the show almost worthless to air once the hiatus was over.  After a heartfelt apology and promising never to do it again, everyone let bygones be bygones.  Ever since then, the shows animators have taken the nessacary percautions needed to ensure such a thing would never happen again.

Now, imagine what would've happened if they did it differently.  To a more realistic scale.  They took these nessacary percautions to avoid getting sued and going out of business.

I too am somewhat upset at how they did it.  However, it was better because if they did it more realistically, there would be a chance that we wouldn't be getting an upcoming series at all.  Basically because they wouldn't have the money to do so.

They did the solar eclipse that way to avoid lawsuits.

12.  Of course the sharpteeth were stupid.  I explained how this was possible earlier.  Just choosing to hurt Bron was a big mistake.

With this point, I have to wholeheartedly agree that going under a sharptooth's foot would actually get you killed rather than the result we saw happen to the sharptooth.

However, the kids getting the sharptooth's attention came as no big surprise to me, really.  Shorty is REALLY good when it comes to distance in hitting rocks with his tail.  I mean, even Littlefoot was impressed and we've seen his shot with one. (Which is still good, considering.) I'd say Shorty is a little gifted in that sense.

Also, since when was the last time we've seen the gang hurling rocks?  Since 4, right?  I'm sure that the distance improvment is no big surprise as they were bound to get better.

However, yeah, that did seem like a pretty clumsy sharptooth.

I'd have to greatly agree with you that 10's shaprtooth was a disgrace compared to the others we've seen in previous movies.

WHEW!  Finally got through all that.

Remember, this may seem somewhat confusing, but my points do make sense in the end when alot of thought are put into them.

Sure, I'm giving Bron the benifet of doubt unlike some of you, but I'm sure he's innocent in the end.  I mean, with the way he talked, it just didn't seem like a lie to me.

*awaits Malte's opinion.*


Littlefoot1616

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Despite what has been say (by both parties' arguments) I have always appreciated Bron and liked him as a character! I just never felt I had to justify my reasonings for liking him. I don't need an excuse to like someone. I felt Bron's reasons for leaving Littlefoot's mother were justified, I just never really felt there was room for argument about it...

Bron I appreciate as a character despite what has been hi-lighted as dis-continuities against him


Malte279

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Hi!
Okay, just keep in mind I don't mean to convince you of my opinion. While it would be a good thing trying to convince you of an opinion you could feel better with (as I would if I was totally satisfied with the contents of LBT 10) it is no intention of mine to make you feel miserable about a movie you used to like  :lol:
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December 9th
Obviously, whatever was coming, both of Littlefoot's parents saw it coming and prepared for the worst the best they could. Also, just because it's lush and green, doesn't mean that it's safe. This is proven to us in the second movie. Despite the Great Valley being such a great place, it still has it's dangers.
Then what was Bron looking for anyway when he left his wife? With not even the Great Valley being save, did he think he could just happen to find a place of absolute safety (I don't think there is such a place in LBT) at demand? He made the situation even more dangerous for his wife and his offspring by leaving them behind in the awareness that they were in danger. You may point out that he might have done all that just because he is dump, but this thesis is one I will deal with further down. Also, there was no point why his wife should not have accompanied him before laying the eggs. Apparently the eggs weren't laid when Bron left. Littlefoot's mother could have just come along. I reckon she could not take too strenous journeys before laying her eggs, but is it not one of the advantages of them laying eggs rather than the mammals' variant of being pregnant? They remain somewhat more mobile. There was no reason why Littlefoot's mother would not acoompany Bron on a way she would have had to take anyway had Bron found whatever he was looking for.
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Now, going back to the first movie, we know that the leaves were beginning to die, yet we don't know what caused such a thing to happen. However, with this information, there is no doubt that the cause destroyed a good amount of the food that was provided. With danger and a coming cause that made a very big lack of food, there was no choice but to leave.
And again the 10th movie was in conflict with the original one!
There was no sign of dying leafes or shortage of food when Bron left (while there ought to have been). What was Bron doing (even if we assume they were shown in a desolate wasteland in LBT 10)? Looking for food and leaving his wife (fully capable of moving) behind to starve?
Sorry, but there was nothing about any of your points on this matter that really convinced me of anything at all.
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Like I said, there is no real indication dictating of when the dramatic change happened. He could've been gone for days before it happened. Let's put in the most logical thing that would make it happen, a metor. As I read in an article once that indicated the most likely cause of the dinosaurs' extinction, a metor striking the earth makes dramatic changes. Not only does the sun get blocked out, but any volcanoes nearby become VERY active, making them spew out an uncontrolable amount of lava and ash. (We have to suggest a volcano being nearby in order to make such a tropical place existable.) Earthquakes strike at a multitude that is unnormal, and worst of all, the dust and ash that is carried into the atmosphere causes acid rain. Destroying all the leaves it hits. The metor wasn't as big as the one that killed off the dinosaurs, but it was still big enough to cause quite some damage.
So, if it was a metor, than it was a sudden change, it just didn't happen until a good time after Bron left.
There may be something about this. Actually It might be possible that it was THE meteorid. After all scientists think that dinosaurs continued to exist for possibly several thousand years after the impact. Also we get messages that "the land is changing" which might be due to that impact.
However, again even if this was the case and if the changes occured very suddenly (as shown in LBT 10) it still doesn't answer why he left, and why he left without his wife in the first place.
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Bron isn't coldhearted, he's dense!
The idea of a dense dinosaur has a certain appeal to me. Actually it would be an interesting idea to include a Forest Gump like character. That character just doesn't come in the shape of Bron though.
The way he is talking (high speed, immediate answers, no drawling, no interruptions, no fillers) the words he is using (permanent damage), a certain cunning (the way he trapped Shorty into confessing he tripped Littlefoot rather than believing Shorty's excuses), good memory (he recognized Littlefoot's grandfather instantly after all the years)... all that really doesn't make him come accross as a dense character.
"Great minds think alike" is of course just a phrase Bron used, but I don't think it is commonly used by dense people wholeheartedly considering themselves a great mind. There is even a kind of poetic touch to Bron's way of talking ("a crack in the earth as deep as a mountain is high", "the bright circle rose and fell many times") one would not expect from a character dense enough to "accidentaly" commit all the things I am blaming Bron for.
Also Bron was thinking about what is going to happen next (after he met Littlefoot) while Littlefoot apparently hadn't spend any thought on that. I really don't think a character so much denser than Littlefoot would come up with the thought first.
"You don't have to decide anything right now." By saying this Bron shows a kind of patient understanding. Is this very common when really dense people ask something?
Also inspite of his indiference towards Shorty Bron is smart enough to recognize that: "Shorty is a good kid at heart, he just likes getting things started." Do you really think that precise analysis of other people's characters is too common a feature among dense people (not saying that it is impossible).
I don't see any points indicating that Bron was dense while there are quite a few I've just pointed out which speak for him being of at least average or possibly higher intelligence.
Many of your points are virtually based on that assumption. So if I cannot agree with seeing Bron as a dense character, I cannot agree with most of the other points either leaving me to the view I have expressed before.
I regret that you came up with the phrase "don't ask, just know". I'm sorry for saying this, but you came up with it whenever there was no sense to be seen in the thoughts you laid out (no offense meant). "Don't ask, just believe" would be more to the point as what you know is usually based on facts. I don't like the phrase; trust no politician who uses it.
"Don't ask, just know" is absolutely NO whatsoever response to the many questions I came up with (e.g. why so many longnecks would want to follow a characters so utterly dense as you apparently consider Bron).
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December 14th
7. I find it hard to believe that you came up with this according to what I see.

I do not believe for one second that Bron gave Littlefoot up. With the fact that he was so dense that he didn't even think to look in The Great Valley, it ends up saying alot. Of course, the herd did come to depend on Bron for some unexplainable reason. As leader, he was put in a tight spot. A herd is like a family. (We have come to understand this with Littlefoot and his friends.) I believe several members got to him as family. And let's just say that when it comes to a dense leader, they decide that the one you are with now is more important.

I know that may make him seem like he was cold-hearted, but I bet he took it with the heaviest of hearts. I ask you, what choice did this leader have?

As cold-hearted as it may sound, it was a better choice for him to stay with the herd then to look for Littlefoot. He really didn't have much choice but to stop looking.
^ Sorry, but I find it very hard to believe that you find it hard to believe I came up with this after everything I wrote already. I laid out already why I don't think Bron is dump (very factual reasons I think). So he could have thought of the Great Valley and moved there with his whole herd. I ask you, what choice did he have? There was just one thing for him to do, and he didn't! There was nothing, NOTHING AT ALL about his being made a herd leader that could have prevented him from moving to the Great Valley!
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8. In a simple understanding, they thought he was dead!
Just take a look at Grandpa Longneck's reaction when he saw Bron. It holds all the face-like features, tones and emotions brought on that I would expect to come out of him when he sees someone he thought was dead. Especially his own son.

Also, they understand that Littlefoot still takes the loss of his mother pretty hard whenever it's discussed. Even though it's been years since his mother died, he still has yet to get over it. Imagine if such a bit of news was brought up. The possiblity of his dad being dead as well brings up alot to be said.

This also explains why Grandpa Longneck was very reluctant to tell Littlefoot who was right in front of him. Everything sinking in and all. Someone he thought was dead, but is in reality 100% alive.

They were basically afraid of how Littlefoot would react to it.

They decided to wait until either he was old enough to handle it or he just brought up the question for some odd reason. They knew that Littlefoot wasn't ready to accept it yet.
I reckon that's true. Littlefoot's grandparents (by the way I strongly suppose they are the parents of Littlefoot's mother rather than of Bron) were bound to think him dead. Why else would such a smart character like Bron not look for his son at the place where he was most likely to be?
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They did the solar eclipse that way to avoid lawsuits.
I think you missed my point there  :huh:
I was never demanding a solar eclipse on TV that was so bright that it would do damage to the eyes if you looked at it. In fact I doubt this is possible at all. What I was demanding was to make it more realistic by cutting some of their "effects" out.
Don't show the moon before it "touches" the sun. You can't see it before it does!
Don't make the sky shine in every color that ever existed. It does not behave that stupid because the sun light is being blocked out. What you would get is similar to a night's sky without dawn or dusk, but with a rather strange twilight before the sun is fully covered up. You can feel a solar eclipse too, as the air is getting colder. There was no need for strange spiral clouds and shooting stars all over the sky. They made too much fuss rather than showing an eclipse in all its beauty.


pokeplayer984

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Well Malte, let me just say that when I put this in, I knew you would take the word dense a bit too far in it's understanding.  Then again, I did set it up like that, so let me rephrase a little.

He is dense to a certian degree.  In other words, there are some things he's smart with and other's he's not.

I will not deny the amount of smarts that he showed that possibly pulled him away from being dense, but where I come from, dense is still dense, no matter how small it may be.

I do not see him as coldhearted.  If he was coldhearted, would he show care for Littlefoot's wounds before knowing who he really was?  I think not. :)

And besides that, Grandpa Longneck hadn't changed even the slightest over the years, so even someone who was dense could remember him.

Then again, maybe you have a point with a few things there.  However, I understand Bron to be one of those complex charcters who gets different set views on him from different people.

You simply took it at the angle of his guiltiness, not once giving him the benefit of the doubt, whereas I took it at the opposite.  It's a habit of mine really.  Whenever one is found guilty of something I find rather hard to believe, I tend to find their innocence in everything and sometimes overexaterate.

So, with how I'm looking at it now, I'm going to have to look at the movie again.  Maybe I can figure out something to get me out of this after that. -_-

Anyways, let's debate a bit on the solar eclipse thing.  There is a second possiblity of why it was so badly done. (I have to admit to that myself.) Maybe they didn't know exactly what a soar eclipse looked like when they made this. (Heck, I don't either, but your explanation really helpped me in picturing it in my mind.) It would highly explain why it was done like that easily.  Of course, this destroys my first guess as to why it was so badly done, then again, it does help out alot.  Maybe they didn't know what one looks like and had to resort to their imagination.  Which, in this case, didn't seem like a very good one. :(

Malte, you're good with debating.  However, I knew I was going against someone tough when I started this, so I shouldn't've been surprised.

(Oh, and BTW, I did actually mean "don't ask, just believe." Gezz!  I can't believe I got those mixed up! :slap )


Malte279

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Malte, you're good with debating. However, I knew I was going against someone tough when I started this, so I shouldn't've been surprised.
You are not going against me pokeplayer984. If you came up with a probable and plausible explanation for the points I listed, I would be happy to accept that view. It sure is better to have a positive view of an LBT movie than a negative one. However if we set our demands to low I'm afraid future movies may be of lower quality...
Maybe that doesn't really make sense. I don't know if any one of the people involved in the production of LBT (apart from Aria and Anndi (Cera)) ever visited the land before time forums. I sure hope they do as I do think that the opinion of the fans could take a positive influence on future land before time movies.

Anyway I can't help thinking that throughout our discussion here you and I have spent more thought on certain aspects of the land before time than people who are actually paid to think about it (no kidding, I'm serious).
I'm sorry, but I simply can't believe Bron to be dense only whenever it comes as a good excuse to justify his actions. I really don't think so. Moreover it would make him not the only dense longneck around. For even if he was dense only in that particular fleeting instances it would require a certain density from Littlefoot's mother and grandparents as well to allow Bron to just wander of when they could just as well accompany him.
((Hey how careless and irresponsible is Littlefoot's mother to let such a dense longneck wander around alone in the wilderness?  :lol )).
As for the warmth he shows towards Littlefoot, it may well be that it is kind of a guilty conscience reaction. I don't mean to say that the warmth he showed was not sincere, it certainly was, but he hadn't cared for all the time. Maybe it required Littlefoot to turn up for Bron to "remember" what he seems to have displaced all the time. I think there are many other examples in literature when a bad father turns out all nice and kind when the lost son turns up decades later. Littlefoot in my opinion is very rash at accepting his fathers excuses, probably because he wants to believe him. Maybe it is the same for you? You too want to believe him and you are able to ("Don't ask, just believe!"). I too would like to believe him as I said repeatedly, but I can't. I can't believe in spite of all the weaknesses I have pointed out. I have been raised to question things I find questionable or implausible (and I drove some of my school teachers crazy by debating with them about "Don't ask, just believe!" matters  :P: ).
As for the solar eclipse I'm sure that for a movie with a budget like the one LBT has it is possible to find somebody to help designing the solar eclipse. A good thing about a solar eclipse is that it is not only a handful of people get to see it when it occurs (unless it happens to occur over the ocean), but millions! Even if it was impossible for them to find someone who experienced a solar eclipse (I'm almost certain that there were people in the team of LBT 10 who witnessed one. I know more people who saw one than people who didn't) there are films and movies and all that depicting it. It is really not like they were showing something to us that has been passed down only in vague ancient scrolls! They could and should have done better.


pokeplayer984

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You know, as I overlooked this topic for the 100th time, (I'm exagerating there.) and after looking at countless facts of dinosaurs in one of THE lamest attempts to prove Bron's innocence, :slap and watching the movie for the 5th time, I've come to a little conclusion.

I have a strange feeling that those statements you made should not have been made at all.

Simply, you only made the movie less enjoyable than it could've been for you by doing so.

I have indeed come to the conclusion myself that Bron wasn't as good of a father as we could've hoped him to be.  If only he had the chance to spend time with Littlefoot when he was born, maybe he would've been a better father.

However, making that type of conclusion ends up making the movie far less enjoyable than it really was for me before I came to it.

In a simple understanding, in order for us to really enjoy it, we have to believe it.

That's the way I've been raised.  It has indeed proven to make me enjoy things more in my life than I expected. :)


Malte279

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I've been raised differently. When there are things disturbing us, it is no good to just keep mum and endure in silence. This goes especially if it comes to parts of our lives which are of more direct impact than a movie, however much we love it (and trust me, I really love LBT).
It is almost a philosophical topic to ask wether we prefer the satisfaction of ignorance (by not questioning, or pointing out things we disapprove of) or the satisfaction of knowledge combined with the dissatisfaction of the realization that things are not the way we would have had them.


Petrie.

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*time to jump in*

Pokeplayer is right....if you analyze the film...you do come to a sour conclusion--Bron isn't the father he should have been or could have been, and if you look at it like that, you will suddenly hate the film.  Guess what?  How many families you think can resonate with that situation?  I'd say 40% of families in America can share that story where a parent is less than they should be.  It happens.  Trying to overlook it and pretend it doesn't happen is a disaster waiting to happen and is nothing better than trying to pretend teenage pregnancy didn't happen in conservative America in the 50s.  -_-

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It is almost a philosophical topic to ask wether we prefer the satisfaction of ignorance (by not questioning, or pointing out things we disapprove of) or the satisfaction of knowledge combined with the dissatisfaction of the realization that things are not the way we would have had them.

Malte, you'd make a damn good sociologist.  ;)


pokeplayer984

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I think I figured it all out.

I had kinda forgotten about this topic and my earlier conclusions.  Let's just say I was a little desprate and thought on one thing too much at the time.

The reason Bron's story doesn't make sense, is becuase it was incomplete.  In other words, he hadn't finished.  Littlefoot was so amazed by Bron being the leader of a whole herd that he couldn't help but stop his dad's story.  Now, I saw that Bron saw this coming.  Bron knew such a thing was quite the achievement.  So, in that sense, he stopped to give Littlefoot time to react.  As a result, he never got to finish his story.  I'm sure that if just a bit more was included, it would make alot more sense. :)

Now, I took a bit of time to study the battle with the Sharpteeth, and discovered those "trippings" to all be quite natural.  I paused the tape during the time the first tripping happened and studied it carefully.  It turned out that when the Sharptooth stepped down on the rocks, the rocks were in just the right place to make him trip.  A split second later, it would've failed.  This, however, is very easy to miss and so anyone can misinterperted it as something that shouldn't happen.

Now, the other one that has a debate on is Shorty getting under a Sharptooth's foot and doing that to trip him.  Now, when I paid attention to the sounds very carefully, I heard a familiar grunt sound that we are all familiar with.  I rewind and spot Cera charging at the other foot before Shorty reaches it.  So, in all truth, Shorty wasn't alone in tripping the Sharptooth.  Cera had rammed the other foot, forcing the Sharptooth to balance on one foot, and let's just say it's not easy for you to balance on one foot, especially when you are standing on your toes.  It was far too easy for Shorty to trip it.  In the end, only a fraction of the Sharptooth's weight Shorty had to deal with rather than all of it as it was earlier concluded.  Though how much can still be debated on.  I still don't approve of Shorty doing that, but let's just say that if he didn't take advantage of the sudden oppurtunity, they'd probably be Sharptooth meat by now.

Rather interesting things I found, no? :)


Malte279

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The reason Bron's story doesn't make sense, is becuase it was incomplete. In other words, he hadn't finished. Littlefoot was so amazed by Bron being the leader of a whole herd that he couldn't help but stop his dad's story. Now, I saw that Bron saw this coming. Bron knew such a thing was quite the achievement. So, in that sense, he stopped to give Littlefoot time to react. As a result, he never got to finish his story. I'm sure that if just a bit more was included, it would make alot more sense.
Quite frankly, I have serious doubts about this. With many of the strange elements being right at the beginning of Bron's tale he would have had to restart all over again. Why not mentioning those extremely important details (obviously they would have made him look much better) right away? What kind of details would it have been at all?
Taking advantage of the position of being made the leader of a herd rather than good points on why he wasn't there (I already pointed out why I doubt Bron to be a very responsible leader) doesn't seem too appropriate to me.
"Yes I left you and your mum for reasons unmentioned and never thought of looking at the most likely place and I'm not going to accompany you there now for I left a part of my herd somewhere else... but HEY I'M a HERDLEADER! That makes up for everything, doesn't it?"
As for the trippings one can always assume that a sharptooth somehow set the foot down in a wrong angle and tripped because of chance or whatever (could happen to anyone) but I still think that such "chances" disenchant the sharpteeth and that Shorty's action (he couldn't speculated on chances) was an unrealistic and self-murdourous thing to do had it been a sharptooth rather than an entertainer.