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Discussion of "A sudden change of species"

Ducky123 · 283 · 25114

vonboy

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This might be going too far in dark territory, but Could we use an idea from my fic, in which Valley members voluntarily leave the Great Valley when they can sense they are dieing? (Such as how many animals can tell when they're time is coming, and find a place to die at.)

This could be a thing some members decide to do so they won't leave a big rotting corpse in the valley to spread disease (if they even know about that.) or at least to not attract predators into the valley with a rotting corpse. They might even think of it as a kind of giving back to the community, like "Maybe then some sharpteeth won't hunt down some young dinosaur with a life ahead of them for awhile."

This could open up some really... weird interactions, if you guys wanna go there.

Also, for species fro characters, Ducky probably can't be an aquatic sharptooth, really. Being Mo's species, she'd be really limited in where she could go, and what she could do, and I can't think of any others.

Dosu, help us!!!! :lol
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---------------------
Littlefoot: "Look, Chomper. You're uncle is dead, and it's just right for your friends to be there for you. You'd be there if someone we know died, right?"

Chomper: "Well, sure I would!"

Come give my LBT TV Series fanfiction, PAST-O-RAMA, a read!
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rhombus

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Quote from: vonboy,Oct 31 2013 on  11:41 PM
This might be going too far in dark territory, but Could we use an idea from my fic, in which Valley members voluntarily leave the Great Valley when they can sense they are dieing? (Such as how many animals can tell when they're time is coming, and find a place to die at.)

This could be a thing some members decide to do so they won't leave a big rotting corpse in the valley to spread disease (if they even know about that.) or at least to not attract predators into the valley with a rotting corpse. They might even think of it as a kind of giving back to the community, like "Maybe then some sharpteeth won't hunt down some young dinosaur with a life ahead of them for awhile."

This could open up some really... weird interactions, if you guys wanna go there.
 
I personally think that your idea would be quite an interesting addition as, like you said, it could open up some rather odd character interactions between the gang and others.  Perhaps one of these encounters could help the gang come to terms with their change, as (assuming the gang eventually relearns leafeater or has Chomper along for translation) they would probably hear a different perspective on death and dying from an elderly dinosaur on the cusp of death as opposed to one who has something to lose.  I would be interested in hearing what others think about that possible addition.


Go ahead and check out my fanfictions, The Seven Hunters, Songs of the Hunters, and Menders Tale.


bushwacked

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^ I like this idea too. This RP is already pretty dark, so in for a penny in for a pound, right?

Maybe there could be a situation where one of the old dinosaurs who goes out to die actually recognises the gang in their sharptooth form somehow? I'd imagine that could lead to an interesting... conversation.


rhombus

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Quote from: bushwacked,Nov 1 2013 on  04:09 AM
^ I like this idea too. This RP is already pretty dark, so in for a penny in for a pound, right?

Maybe there could be a situation where one of the old dinosaurs who goes out to die actually recognises the gang in their sharptooth form somehow? I'd imagine that could lead to an interesting... conversation.

One idea that came to me in a dream last night (that we should probably not do in this RP) is this: turn the darkness in the story up to eleven and have the dinosaur in question be one of Littlefoot's grandparents. :o I think that might be too dark even by our standards.

How is one supposed to react when they see a loved one after a long absence who happens to be on their final walkabout to die and you are the possible executioner?  I don't think Hallmark makes a card for that occasion.  :p


Go ahead and check out my fanfictions, The Seven Hunters, Songs of the Hunters, and Menders Tale.


vonboy

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I vote we kill off Grandpa like that!!!

If not him, then I vote for Mr. Thicknose, and I wanna play him :DD

(By the way, I killed off Grandpa in my fic, so YES I'M EVIL!!! :anger)
Come check out my new Youtube gaming channel, Game Biter!
---------------------
Littlefoot: "Look, Chomper. You're uncle is dead, and it's just right for your friends to be there for you. You'd be there if someone we know died, right?"

Chomper: "Well, sure I would!"

Come give my LBT TV Series fanfiction, PAST-O-RAMA, a read!
---------------------
(Runner-Up)


rhombus

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Quote from: vonboy,Nov 1 2013 on  12:12 PM


(By the way, I killed off Grandpa in my fic, so YES I'M EVIL!!! :anger)
I think that is where I got the idea from. :yes  I went on fanfiction.net to see the story in question (Past O' Rama Season 2) after you mentioned your idea last night.  After reading that story (and the prequel) immediately before bed I guess it is no surprise that I dreamed about the subject.

I would have no objection to using the idea that I mentioned if others think that it is a good idea, but I am concerned that my idea might be a bit too dark for what the other RPers have in mind.


Go ahead and check out my fanfictions, The Seven Hunters, Songs of the Hunters, and Menders Tale.


bushwacked

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I have no problem with that idea - Grandpa always was trouble...  :smile


Ducky123

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If you guys want that to happen, I'll be the last person to vote against it :)
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Nahla

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I vote no for killing Grandpa,and really should it not be MY choice since he is my character? Nearly every fic I read kills off one or both the Grandparents and really it's getting quite old. So my vote is a big nope nope nope


rhombus

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I was thinking about the actual transformation itself the other day and a few other issues came to mind that could affect how the events immediately following the transformation would occur.  I am unsure if we wanted to resolve these issues prior to starting the roleplay or if we wanted to make these up as we go along.  I would appreciate anyone else’s thoughts on these ideas.


The timing of the transformation:

If the transformation occurs immediately after the making of wishes by the gang then the interactions of the rainbowfaces and the gang will have to be considered.  For one, I would imagine that the gang would not be thrilled (quite an understatement) with suddenly being transformed in that manner regardless of the circumstance.  Additionally, if that occurs will one of the gang (I am looking at you Cera) become violent towards the rainbowfaces?  If so, then that might be the event that alerts the adults to sharpteeth (the gang) being in the valley.

If, on the other hand, the transformation happens after a delay (perhaps after the gang goes to sleep that night?) then the issue arises how each member is going to be alerted to their new condition.  Will one of the gang wake up in the night and notice the change?  If so, will the member have the intuition to think that maybe this has happened to the others and to wake them?  Undoubtedly if that occurs then one of the gang will scream upon being woken up by another member (because they are being woken up by a sharptooth) and that will alert the adults to the existence of sharpteeth in the valley.  This would create a rather more confusing situation than scenario one, because it may take some time for the members to find one another after being chased from the valley and it would also take awhile to realize who is who (as they now all look and smell different.)


The realism of the transformation in terms of the gang’s perceptions:

Smell

Generally speaking, based upon the information gleamed in the television series, Chomper, Ruby, and Spike have the best sense of smell of the gang.  This especially makes sense in the case of Chomper and Ruby, as an acute sense of smell is of great benefit in tracking down prey.  However, this means that when the gang changes that the remainder of the members will be going from a rather reduced sense of smell to an extremely heightened sense.  To put this quantitatively, the difference between the olfactory (smell) acuity of a human and a bloodhound is around 100,000,000 times.  The number of olfactory receptor cells are 4 billion in a bloodhound, compared to just 5 million in a human and 100 million in a rabbit.  Additionally, many predators have a far larger area of the brain dedicated to the interpretation of smells, further increasing smell sensitivity and differentiation beyond what the raw number of olfactory receptors would seem to indicate.  The magnitude of this change is impossible for us to imagine (considering our extremely poor sense of smell) but is probably comparable to a legally blind individual suddenly gaining the ability to see.  I can easily imagine the gang being overwhelmed, and perhaps even being rendered unconscious, in the moments immediately following the transformation.  Even after the change, relating to one another more on the basis of smell than on sight will be quite a change in perspective – and probably one that we would have to work on detailing in the roleplay.

Binocular Vision

Most herbivores have eyes that are oriented more towards the sides of their heads in order to maximize their range of vision (very useful in seeing predators attempting to sneak up on you) whereas most predators have eyes that are oriented more towards the front (this allows for binocular vision – very useful in gauging the distance to potential prey.)  This means that the entire gang (except Chomper and perhaps Ruby) is going to have depth perception for the first time.  This would probably make the gang very worried (as their range of vision would be much less and the paranoia that comes with being prey would take a while to subside) and confused (I can easily see one of the gang not realizing what the object is in front of their face before realizing that it is their snout.)

Spike’s Vision

In the case of Spike, he is depicted as being colorblind in the TV episode “Through the eyes of a Spiketail” (his vision appears to be in shades of purple) and therefore I guess we could consider that attribute cannon.  Although the shift in his sense of smell will not be as great as the rest of the gang, he would probably be affected by a change in his sense of vision.  He will be going from seeing 100 different shades (only rod photoreceptors functioning with 100 different sensitivity states) to 100,000,000 colors (100 times as many as humans assuming that dinosaurs had the same number of cones as most modern birds – 4 different types of cones equals 100 x 100 x 100 x 100 different sensitivity states or approximately 100,000,000 colors.)  I can easily imagine him being amazed at the amazing ësong’ his vision is giving him (he would have no concept of color as this is his first time seeing it – so referring to the colors as tones in a song is probably the best description he could give it) until finally recognizing that he is on two feet and has sharp claws and realizing what has transpired.


So what does everyone else think about some of these ideas?  Should we leave some of them out or simply explain them away as being handled by the magical transformation?  I would like to hear the thoughts of others on this matter.


Go ahead and check out my fanfictions, The Seven Hunters, Songs of the Hunters, and Menders Tale.


rhombus

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I just noticed Nahla's and Zimba's posts after I posted my message.  Since there are objections to killing off Grandpa Longneck, perhaps we should have Mr. Thicknose be the dinosaur to die in the walkabout instead?  Vonboy has already offered to play that character in the event that he was added for that purpose.


Go ahead and check out my fanfictions, The Seven Hunters, Songs of the Hunters, and Menders Tale.


bushwacked

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Yeah, I'd be okay with Mr. Thicknose being up for the chop - go for it Vonboy! :anger

I think putting in details about what the transformation is like would add a nice layer of detail, like what you said with the smells, vision etc. Attempting to learn the sharptooth language should be pretty interesting too.Would they also find it a little harder to move at first if their body changes, especially if they go from four legs to two?


rhombus

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Attempting to learn the sharptooth language should be pretty interesting too.

I was under the impression that they would automatically be able to speak the sharptooth language but forget how to speak leafeater.  Although the gang attempting to relearn leafeater might be interesting, especially with their modified vocal structures.  Perhaps in the process we can hear the story about how Chomper learned leafeater, since it was never elaborated upon in the films or television series.

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Would they also find it a little harder to move at first if their body changes, especially if they go from four legs to two?

That is something that I was wondering as well.  I would imagine those who were already bipedal or flighted would have an easier time, but Littlefoot, Spike, and Cera will have to adapt to a bipedal stature unless they become quadruped sharpteeth.  If some adaptation is required then it would be wise to factor that into the transformation scene (giving them enough time to adapt to their new legs) otherwise they will be unable to run away from the adults.


Go ahead and check out my fanfictions, The Seven Hunters, Songs of the Hunters, and Menders Tale.


vonboy

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Guess we should have asked Zimba first, oh well. I'll be playing Mr. Thicknose, the main dish this evening. :lol

I guess we should talk about Chomper too. Should he still be the kinda childish/innocent kid he was in the TV series, or should he be a little more older/mature?

What about his hunting skills? Are they going to be well developed already, or do we play him as a young sharptooth that never hunted anything bigger than bugs and maybe lizards before? Is he going to already be okay with hunting and eating leafeaters, or maybe he was never interested in it (didn't want to learn) before he left his parents to move into the Valley?

It might be interesting if he tells the sharptooth gang he's never actually hunted flatteeth before, and now they have to all learn it together. It might put more pressure on the gang if even Chomper is still not reconciled completely with what he is yet, and he's not pushing the rest to reconcile either.

There's a lot of ways Chomper is played out in fanfiction, so we'll have to decide how he's going to be here.
Come check out my new Youtube gaming channel, Game Biter!
---------------------
Littlefoot: "Look, Chomper. You're uncle is dead, and it's just right for your friends to be there for you. You'd be there if someone we know died, right?"

Chomper: "Well, sure I would!"

Come give my LBT TV Series fanfiction, PAST-O-RAMA, a read!
---------------------
(Runner-Up)


bushwacked

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I'm sure you'll be a tasty treat

I kind of like the idea of Chomper starting off like he is in the films, then hardening as the story goes on and he has to actually hunt leafeaters. It sounds like it could turn into a dinosaur version of 'Lord Of The Flies', without the island  :p


rhombus

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I had an idea for a scene in the roleplay that would only work if Chomper had some hunting experience.  Since it would be a major scene if we decide to do it as I envision, I don't really want to announce the details of it openly.  I think that I will run it by you in a personal message vonboy and you can tell me if you like the idea or not.

Edit:  It says that your personal messages are full, so I sent you an email instead.


Go ahead and check out my fanfictions, The Seven Hunters, Songs of the Hunters, and Menders Tale.


Ducky123

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I'm impressed :lol:

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The timing of the transformation:

If the transformation occurs immediately after the making of wishes by the gang then the interactions of the rainbowfaces and the gang will have to be considered. For one, I would imagine that the gang would not be thrilled (quite an understatement) with suddenly being transformed in that manner regardless of the circumstance. Additionally, if that occurs will one of the gang (I am looking at you Cera) become violent towards the rainbowfaces? If so, then that might be the event that alerts the adults to sharpteeth (the gang) being in the valley.

If, on the other hand, the transformation happens after a delay (perhaps after the gang goes to sleep that night?) then the issue arises how each member is going to be alerted to their new condition. Will one of the gang wake up in the night and notice the change? If so, will the member have the intuition to think that maybe this has happened to the others and to wake them? Undoubtedly if that occurs then one of the gang will scream upon being woken up by another member (because they are being woken up by a sharptooth) and that will alert the adults to the existence of sharpteeth in the valley. This would create a rather more confusing situation than scenario one, because it may take some time for the members to find one another after being chased from the valley and it would also take awhile to realize who is who (as they now all look and smell different.)
I think this is something we may need to vote on. I personally would be fine with both versions since both offer a great conflict potential and such.
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Smell

Generally speaking, based upon the information gleamed in the television series, Chomper, Ruby, and Spike have the best sense of smell of the gang. This especially makes sense in the case of Chomper and Ruby, as an acute sense of smell is of great benefit in tracking down prey. However, this means that when the gang changes that the remainder of the members will be going from a rather reduced sense of smell to an extremely heightened sense. To put this quantitatively, the difference between the olfactory (smell) acuity of a human and a bloodhound is around 100,000,000 times. The number of olfactory receptor cells are 4 billion in a bloodhound, compared to just 5 million in a human and 100 million in a rabbit. Additionally, many predators have a far larger area of the brain dedicated to the interpretation of smells, further increasing smell sensitivity and differentiation beyond what the raw number of olfactory receptors would seem to indicate. The magnitude of this change is impossible for us to imagine (considering our extremely poor sense of smell) but is probably comparable to a legally blind individual suddenly gaining the ability to see. I can easily imagine the gang being overwhelmed, and perhaps even being rendered unconscious, in the moments immediately following the transformation. Even after the change, relating to one another more on the basis of smell than on sight will be quite a change in perspective – and probably one that we would have to work on detailing in the roleplay.
I don't think we need to do it that detailed. I'm all for including it though. They'll have to get used to it.
Same goes to binocular vision and Spike's vision. Good ideas but I don't think doing them too detailed will be good.
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I was under the impression that they would automatically be able to speak the sharptooth language but forget how to speak leafeater. Although the gang attempting to relearn leafeater might be interesting, especially with their modified vocal structures. Perhaps in the process we can hear the story about how Chomper learned leafeater, since it was never elaborated upon in the films or television series.
They forget how to speak leafeater. Consequently, they speak sharptooth. It would indeed be interesting to think about how Chomper learned leafeater. He didn't hear every leafeater word from the Gang for sure.
 
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That is something that I was wondering as well. I would imagine those who were already bipedal or flighted would have an easier time, but Littlefoot, Spike, and Cera will have to adapt to a bipedal stature unless they become quadruped sharpteeth. If some adaptation is required then it would be wise to factor that into the transformation scene (giving them enough time to adapt to their new legs) otherwise they will be unable to run away from the adults.
I think that point is the most important of all points you mentioned. This would speak for a surreptitious disappearing (preferably at night) rather than being chased out of the Valley, actually.
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I'll be playing Mr. Thicknose, the main dish this evening. dino_laugh.gif
Alright, you are hired :lol
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I guess we should talk about Chomper too. Should he still be the kinda childish/innocent kid he was in the TV series, or should he be a little more older/mature?
Well, at the beginning he'll be rather immature but as time flows (there'll be leaps in time) he'll grow more mature and serious, life in the Mysterious Beyond is hard after all.
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What about his hunting skills? Are they going to be well developed already, or do we play him as a young sharptooth that never hunted anything bigger than bugs and maybe lizards before? Is he going to already be okay with hunting and eating leafeaters, or maybe he was never interested in it (didn't want to learn) before he left his parents to move into the Valley?
That depends on how you and everyone else would like it to be... I consider the following idea as quite good: Chomper does know how to hunt, theoretically, he just never did hunt. What do you think? :)
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rhombus

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Quote from: Ducky123,Nov 3 2013 on  01:30 PM

I don't think we need to do it that detailed. I'm all for including it though. They'll have to get used to it.
Same goes to binocular vision and Spike's vision. Good ideas but I don't think doing them too detailed will be good.

I agree that we shouldn't be that detailed.  Besides, I have no idea how we would incorporate an explanation of olfactory receptors and cone photoreceptors into the story. :confused  That would sound like the type of narration that we would get from Mr. Thicknose. :lol  Perhaps that is why he is on the menu for later. :p  My intention was just to describe to the other RPers the magnitude of the change that we are talking about and how that might potentially impact the gang.

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I think that point is the most important of all points you mentioned. This would speak for a surreptitious disappearing (preferably at night) rather than being chased out of the Valley, actually.

If we want to save the plot points that the "Chomper betrays the gang, but not really" storyline made possible, then I suppose that we could combine the idea of a surreptitious disappearing with the adults thinking that Chomper betrayed them.  For example, perhaps the gang decides to leave the valley at night after discovering their condition, but Mama Flyer notices that Petrie is gone and raises a general alarm.  The adults would then be alerted to the loss of their children.  In the process of looking for Petrie, Mama Flyer might catch a glimpse of Chomper leaving the valley with his pack (the gang) and when she informs the adults of this a bit later the adults would jump to conclusions (that Chomper had betrayed them).


Go ahead and check out my fanfictions, The Seven Hunters, Songs of the Hunters, and Menders Tale.


bushwacked

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If we want to save the plot points that the "Chomper betrays the gang, but not really" storyline made possible, then I suppose that we could combine the idea of a surreptitious disappearing with the adults thinking that Chomper betrayed them. For example, perhaps the gang decides to leave the valley at night after discovering their condition, but Mama Flyer notices that Petrie is gone and raises a general alarm. The adults would then be alerted to the loss of their children. In the process of looking for Petrie, Mama Flyer might catch a glimpse of Chomper leaving the valley with his pack (the gang) and when she informs the adults of this a bit later the adults would jump to conclusions (that Chomper had betrayed them).

We could incorporate the fact that they're still getting used to their new bodies with how they're discovered sneaking out at night. Say, maybe to escape they need to sneak past a nest of sleeping dinosaurs and because they're still getting used to their new vision or method of walking, they accidentally alert the adults that way. Could be a nice way to introduce the difficulties they initially find in their new bodies. And it could be a better way of making the adults think the worst of Chomper - maybe one of the gang could stumble into a sleeping child, so the first thing the adults see when they wake up is a group of sharpteeth stumbling around their kids?