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Racisim - A longneck / threehorn problem?

Malte279

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While posting in a thread about Ali I was thinking about the racism displayed by dinosaurs both in the original movie and the sequels. As the topic would have led to far from the topic of the Ali thread I decided to start a new one on the matter here, though I'll have to repeat a few thoughts from the Ali thread.
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It would be interesting to know what kind of stories (or whatever) Ali's herd and her mother told her. There seems to be a clear distinction between the racism shown by threehorns (who consider themselves superior to all other kinds) and the racism shown by longnecks in this case (other kinds are dangerous and to be feared). The other kind of longneck racism we have seen so far (in the original movie) was neither claiming longnecks' superiority nor claiming other kinds to be dangerous. The segregation of the kinds was just accepted as a fact by Littlefoot's mother, which makes me think that her racism may have been much less developed than that within Ali's her (accepted, but not really promoted).
While there are some claims (from Littlefoot's mother in particular, but also mildly suggested by the first movies narrator) that the racism is with ALL kinds there seems to be a visible difference in the first movie already (in the sequels the topic of racism was gradually abandoned, or at least neglected). Ducky doesn't seem to have been told that bigmouthes don't hang out with other kinds. She seems to be quite surprised at Littlefoot's reservation about non longnecks and tries to fool him into thinking that she was a longneck ("no pride of her kind" as threehorns would probably say. Imagine Cera trying to pretend being a longneck :lol). Moreover Ducky's family readily adobts Spike, possibly the most distinct "lack of racism" from characters other than the main characters we get to see in the first movie. Petrie doesn't seem to have any reservations against "walkers" and in an earlier scene another little flyer (who is in one LBT book mistaken for Petrie) shows great sympathy with Littlefoot offering him a berry. Yet another example is the sympathy Littlefoot gets from Rooter.
One example for genuine "flyer racism" is the story Pterano told Petrie which makes the introduction of LBT 7 which (similar to the threehorn racism) promotes the idea of superiority of the own kind, but doesn't really mention any other kinds at all. Taking Pterano's particular character in mind it is questionable if that story can be seen as an indication of real racism from the flyers in general. There are other cases of racism from other kinds in later movies (LBT 3, 7, 11), but I think they are all triggered by the racism of Cera's father. With all this, is the real racism among the dinosaurs a phenomena limited primarily to Longnecks and Threehorns?


DarkHououmon

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Longneck racism might stem from their size. Longnecks are the biggest dinosaurs, and the biggest animals, on land. They are far taller than any of the other dinosaurs. It's probably hard for them not to look down on other dinosaurs, perhaps even see them as insignificant. But they appear to be the "less aggressive" type. I don't really see them speaking out against other species, or try to promote their sense of superioty. I recall how Littlefoot's mother, though obviously a bit racist, saved Cera's life even though she was a threehorn.

Threehorn racism, however, probably comes from their need of confidence. They live in herds, and the leaders are in a constant threat of being overthrown by a younger threehorn. They must remain confident, for if they show doubt, they could lose the fight, and possibly be driven out of the herd, or become so badly injured they become prey to a sharptooth. This confidence could lead to overconfidence, which could lead the threehorns to think they are superior to all dinosaurs. Threehorns seem to be more vocal about this than longnecks, as seen with Mr. Threehorn and definitely Cera in the first movie.

Racism is probably present in all species of dinosaurs, but the most obvious displays of racism are, indeed, from Mr. Threehorn himself.

And like you said, Pterano also displayed racism as well, believing that flyers are superior and how he should have been leader. This sense of superiority probably stems from the fact that he could fly and could travel faster than the other dinosaurs. However, Pterano did not treat Littlefoot and his friends like he felt they were inferior, and he was genuinely concerned for Ducky.

Ducky's mother's lack of racism is, as you said, probably the most notable in the series. I usually don't see racism performed by Swimmers, though there might have been some that I missed. One idea that might explain this is that Swimmers are more devoted to their offspring than other dinosaurs. In real life, Longnecks abandon their young after the eggs are laid. Threehorns may have taken care of their young, but probably not as devotedly as Swimmers. The Maiasaura, for example, is believed to have fed her offspring regurgitated food. In Magic School Bus, the Maiasaura even tried to feed the kids, thinking they were hungry. However, whether or not the real Maiasaura would try to feed a baby of a different species is unknown.

Also, if I recall correctly, the dinosaur chart indicates that Swimmers were the most intelligent of the plant-eating dinosaurs. They were probably smart enough to know that racism would not do them much favors, or they felt racism was a waste of time and ignored it.

But now that I think of it, I think there was at least one example of Swimmer racism in LBT. That one book, Friends in Need wasn't it? I think that had racist Swimmers in it. I can't remember.

There is definite racism among leaf-eating dinosaurs when it comes to sharpteeth. It would appear that leaf-eater children are taught not only to fear sharpteeth, but taught that sharpteeth are stupid and easily outwitted. I don't know if sharpteeth share the same racist against leaf-eaters. It would make sense, since sharpteeth probably see leaf-eaters as nothing more than food for them to eat.

Sharpteeth definitely have a bad rap among the leaf-eating dinosaurs. While the plant-eating dinosaurs understand what sharpteeth can do, they often feel that sharpteeth are all brute and no brains. However, sharpteeth are definitely not as stupid as leaf-eaters claim they are. One example is the relationship between Redclaw and the Fast Biters. They are a pack, and a pack can only be maintained with understanding, thinking. The Fast Biters seem to have accepted Redclaw as leader, and will do what he says. Redclaw often gives orders to the Fast Biters, another example of intelligence.

Racism is not limited to leaf-eaters, as sharpteeth seem to have a sense of racism as well. This we see very well in The Lonely Journey, when Chomper is constantly attacked by any sharptooth he encounters. Though these attacks may stem from more than just racism. Chomper was another sharptooth and posed a threat to the sharpteeth because it would mean another mouth to feed. So instead of just allowing Chomper to hunt down what little prey there was in the area, they decide to try to kill him instead.

This is not unusual behavior. We see this same kind of behavior in some carnivores. Wolves who stray into another pack's territory are killed if they don't get out of the pack's territory. A cheetah who ends up in another cheetah's turf is attacked. Invading tigers are often killed by another tiger with a bite to the neck. Lions will kill cheetahs if given the chance if they come across them. So it would only be natural for sharpteeth to behave in the same way.


Malte279

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But now that I think of it, I think there was at least one example of Swimmer racism in LBT. That one book, Friends in Need wasn't it? I think that had racist Swimmers in it. I can't remember.
Very good observation! :yes
Indeed this is a case of Bigmouth racism I failed to remember. It is in the books (mentioned in two of them) only, not in the movie, but according to a statement of Don Bluth an earlier concept of the land before time stressed the aspect of racism much more than the final movie. It is likely (though I cannot prove it) that according to the earlier concept (which might have included the oasis scene) the other species of dinosaurs got their share of racist behaviour.
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Longneck racism might stem from their size. Longnecks are the biggest dinosaurs, and the biggest animals, on land. They are far taller than any of the other dinosaurs. It's probably hard for them not to look down on other dinosaurs, perhaps even see them as insignificant. But they appear to be the "less aggressive" type. I don't really see them speaking out against other species, or try to promote their sense of superioty. I recall how Littlefoot's mother, though obviously a bit racist, saved Cera's life even though she was a threehorn.
It is a interesting that the racism of the largest dinosaurs seems to be more based on fear of the other kinds than of a pronounced feeling of superiority. At least this is the impression we get if we observe Ali's behaviour, the most distinct of the comparatively rare cases of longneck racism. It is implied by Cera's grandfather in LBT 5 that there may be some kind of self-importance on the part of longnecks which Cera's father names:
"I'm taller so that makes me better than you attitute"
Knowing both Cera's father and Littlefoot's grandpa however this statement can hardly be counted as a solid proof for some general misbehaviour on the part of the longnecks. It probably comes down to the fact that among the dinosaur species it is just the same as it is about human people. They are no homogenous groups and therefore prejudices racism is based on doesn't really work.
It would be interesting to know how universal the racism from the threehorns, the kind presented as the most racist, truly is (with the exception of Cera and her father we didn't see much racism from Threehorns. Mr. Thicknose and Tria show no racism whatsoever and from what we have seen Dinah, Dana, and Tricia are not going to grow up as racists) and also how far their racism could drive threehorns (or other kinds as well). Would it always be satisfied by disliking and avoiding each other, or could that racism grow into something much more ugly and dangerous?
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There is definite racism among leaf-eating dinosaurs when it comes to sharpteeth. It would appear that leaf-eater children are taught not only to fear sharpteeth, but taught that sharpteeth are stupid and easily outwitted. I don't know if sharpteeth share the same racist against leaf-eaters. It would make sense, since sharpteeth probably see leaf-eaters as nothing more than food for them to eat.
I'm not quite sure if the relationship between sharpteeth and leafeaters can really be labeled as "racism". If there was as clear a superiority of power of one over the other kind it would seem a bit strange to describe their relationship as racism (it is not racism that coins the relationship between mankind and cattle for example). As the danger is a little more balanced in case of sharpteeth and many species of leafeaters there may be room for emotions which could be described as racism. The most notable example comes from Bron: "Sharpteeth are cowards", while we don't know of any cases of Sharpteeth expressing genuine contempt of some kind of leafeater. If Sharpteeth call leafeaters "food" I don't really see this as racism as from the sharptooth's point of view "food" is what leafeaters basically are.
In this connection it is interesting to take a look at the omnivores Ozzy and Strut. Ozzy's contempt for eating green food (and for anyone who does) bears a clear similarity to racism, with the "problem" that the race is not the cause for his contempt, but the diet is (if a member of his own species, his brother Strut, eats leafs he is the target of the same contempt as the "leaf lickers" are). It is certainly possible that a similar case of "dietism" :P: exists among sharpteeth. So far we have only seen real contempt for the leafeater's food, not for the leafeaters themselves however. There is of course a certain lack of sharpteeth about whom we know enough to draw any real conclusions (I don't know about the sequels, but you mentioned some examples there).


Noname

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I know this is slightly off topic, but, did anyone remember how Petrie called Littlefoot a "flathead?" So did Cera. This would probably be the equivolent of calling an African-American a n*gger. As it is, the dinosaurs don't seem to care about skin color at all; Littlefoot's parents and Tricia's parents are both very differently colored.


trexmaster

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"Racism" may not be the right word for the kind of prejudice exhibited by the dinosaurs in LBT. "Race" is usually used for variation within a species (e.g. Africans vs Europeans vs Indians vs Native Americans...ad naseum). Longnecks, threehorns, and fliers are clearly from different clades, never mind species. "Speciesism" or "cladism" would probably be more appropriate here.

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And like you said, Pterano also displayed racism as well, believing that flyers are superior and how he should have been leader. This sense of superiority probably stems from the fact that he could fly and could travel faster than the other dinosaurs.

I know LBT treats paleontology the same way 300 treated history, but pterosaurs aren't dinosaurs, although both pterosaurs and dinosaurs belong to the archosaur clade (along with crocodiles and birds).

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Racism is not limited to leaf-eaters, as sharpteeth seem to have a sense of racism as well. This we see very well in The Lonely Journey, when Chomper is constantly attacked by any sharptooth he encounters. Though these attacks may stem from more than just racism. Chomper was another sharptooth and posed a threat to the sharpteeth because it would mean another mouth to feed. So instead of just allowing Chomper to hunt down what little prey there was in the area, they decide to try to kill him instead.

What kinds of sharpteeth?


Malte279

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In general LBT is not a scientific movie so truely scientific discussions of it are kind of nonsensical. I doubt the LBT dinosaurs to be able to tell a dinosaur from an archosaur clade. Trying to see their world through their eyes I don't think that differentiation would help us.
You are correct in pointing out that speciesism is probably a more proper term for the reservations the different kinds of dinosaur show against each other in the land before time. "Species" is also a word mentioned in at least one LBT movie by one of the rainbowfaces. There may be more examples, but in the case I am thinking of Littlefoot seemed a bit confused at the word "species". Race wasn't ever mentioned at all. Most of the time they refer to the different "kinds" of dinosaurs.
I really hope we don't have to put LBT down to the level of the movie 300 :lol
Having seen it I can only say that it is a historian's nightmare of a movie. The only receipt is not to take the movie series (which may be difficult though if a movie can as easily be seen as an analogy to current events as is the case with 300). Anyway, I don't want to go too far off topic, 300 may be discussed elsewhere.


tobeysan

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"Racism" may not be the right word for the kind of prejudice exhibited by the dinosaurs in LBT. "Race" is usually used for variation within a species (e.g. Africans vs Europeans vs Indians vs Native Americans...ad naseum). Longnecks, threehorns, and fliers are clearly from different clades, never mind species. "Speciesism" or "cladism" would probably be more appropriate here.

I agree longnecks and the three-horns are different species of dinosaurs. The concept is for the different species to actually represent different racial, social or economic classes of person, not really for the scientific term of 'species'; which the original movie(s) did a reasonable job.

As for racism, it's pretty apparent that there is disparity among the adult, which trickles 'the gang', however the 'racism' among the group is probably no more than our current equivalent of a bunch of guys making fun of each other and saying one guy is homosexual or a what not.