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My old idea...

Noname · 25 · 4530

Noname

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Thanks to these clips I found on you tube:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_MkupYfIdA Land Before Time (Water ghost)

and


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q64AGWNgKc The Lion King (Water and cloud ghost)

and


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2MKjhei27A Land Before Time (Cloud ghost)

It is easier to compare the very similar scenes, with the ghost/spirit in the water/clouds. The idea of mine was that TLK partly copied that scene from LBT, and here is what might be the proof. You decide. Note that I did not post the clips on You Tube, I just found them. It's also worth noting that the Lion King scene was also taken partly from Hamlet.

P.S. The Land Before Time came out in 1988, The Lion King came out in 1994.


NewOrder

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I never watched TLK, but you're right this is a total rip off of LBT, clearly.
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Malte279

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There are definitely some scenes in LBT which I'm quite sure inspired some scenes of the Lion King. The phrase "Circle of Life" which was hugely popularized by Lion King and Elton John's song was maybe  taken from the land before time, and maybe it wasn't. Sure enough LBT wasn't the first time the phrase was used, but still it may have inspired the use in the Lion King.
Nevertheless I think that both, LBT and LK are very good stories in their own right. Even those scenes one of which was probably inspired by the other(s) have their charms each to their own.
I suppose the term "rip off" to have a rather negative conotation. I wouldn't consider the inspiration LK took from LBT as such a negtive thing. After all LK did have it's own ideas too and was not to an excessive degree "stolen" from LBT. Therefore I am not annoyed about the obvious similarities.
Somebody who watches Bambi will find many similarities to LBT and Bambi was produced much earlier. Does that make LBT a mere rip off?


Noname

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LBT and Bambi had some similarities, yes, but few scenes were so similar that one could just compare them side by side and see a direct link. The only scene which could have a link is the birth scene, and even that has appreceable differences. As for the "circle of life"; I don't think that exact phrase existed before The Land Before Time, although the concept was around at least as long as Greek Philosophy and Buddhism. Besides, the themes of the Land Before Time and Bambi are totally different; The Land Before Time is about faith, hope, and love, while Bambi doesn't really have any themes. Also, this topic is about how TLK was inspired by LBT, not how LBT may have been vaugely inspired by Bambi. I always thought of LBT as the anti-Bambi; instead of idealized characters, we have realistic struggle and suffering. Bambi and his friends are shown as some perfect childen, with no faults or issues, while Littlefoot gets over-attatched,  depressed, angry, and he even attacks Cera at one point. Littlefoot's friends are shown to be imperfect as well; Cera is short-tempered, Spike is mute, Ducky is gullible (she believes in Cera's false path), and Petrie cannot fly until the end of the first movie.


DarkHououmon

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The scene where Littlefoot sees an image of his mother in the form of clouds wasn't the first time this was used. This scene, and the one we see in The Lion King, may have been inspired by Kimba The White Lion, which was made in the 60s, and a similar scene is used when Kimba sees a cloud image of his father in the sky.

EDIT: Here's an image of the cloud apparation, this one dating back to 1950.



Petrie.

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To be fair, Bambi was the inspiration for some things in both LBT and TLK.  Directly copied?  In some instances, yes (the "Mother, where are you?" line being the most obvious) but isn't it a good thing when one film inspires another?  It's not like Bambi = Land Before Time = The Lion King.



Ratiasu

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Honestly, just because some lines are the same and there are similar happenings between two movies doesn't mean they copied each other. :\


Noname

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All I said was that scene had been copied, not the whole movie. If anything, TLK takes more from Hamlet and Kimba the White Lion. Still, the similarities do exist; just look at the links and see for yourself.


DarkHououmon

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I've seen both movies, so I know that the scenes are similar. But I still don't believe that TLK was inspired by LBT.


Malte279

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The similarities exist, no doubt about it. I would not even discredit the theory that members of the Lion King production team may have watched the land before time and said: "That's it, we need to create a similar emotion. We can work with this as an inspiration". I do not contradict your basic point Noname, about LK probably taking some inspiration from LBT.
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The only scene which could have a link is the birth scene, and even that has appreceable differences.
I don't know Bambi well enough to make a qualified statement, but others who know the movie better than I do (Petrie for example) often refer to the death of the mother scene rather than the birth scene. Unless I'm very mistaken Bambi's birth was much less "dramatic" than that of Littlefoot, and as for the death of the mother there are major differences in the setting too (correct me if I'm mistaken, but Bambi for example is never left all alone as Littlefoot is at least for some time).
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Besides, the themes of the Land Before Time and Bambi are totally different
True, but the same is equaly true for LBT and LK.
My point has been voiced by others already. There are inspirations in all these movies taken from other movies (or at least from other stories; I'm not sure if there were many movies to inspire Bambi). But that does not make any of the movies worse so long they are not merely copying earlier movies (which I think is implied in the term "rip off"). Do you think that LK was a rip off from LBT in that sense Noname? Only if that was your line of thinking (and I don't even think it was) we would disagree on anything at all.


NewOrder

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A "rip off" doesn't necessarily mean it's worse than the original. I never watched the lion king but I'm sure it's good or either so many people wouldn't have watched it, unless they are brain dead followers of the masses.

Anyway, we live in a time where every good idea has already been made, it's very hard to actuallt be original since most of our imagination is influenced by outside sources. LBT and TLK, have their merit because they were able to pick up a good storyline and turn it into a beautiful thing that 19 years later would make us stand on this forum and discuss about it. Who cares if they copied each other, what matters is that they're good movies that influenced us all.
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DarkHououmon

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A "rip off" doesn't necessarily mean it's worse than the original.

Usually this isn't the case. I have rarely come across a "true" rip-off that did better than the original.


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I never watched the lion king

Perhaps you should go watch it. I've seen TLK when it first came out in theatres. It is, in my opinion, Disney's best animated movie.


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Who cares if they copied each other

Far as I'm concerned, they didn't copy each other. The Lion King may have had some inspiration from The Land Before Time (excluding the cloud ghost, I am still positive this idea was taken from Kimba The White Lion) though. But other then the coincidence of them both using the ghost cloud that you see in Kimba, I haven't seen anything from the movies that suggest they copied each other.


NewOrder

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Well, since I haven't seen it I'm in no position to say that they did in fact copy each other. What I meant was, "who cares?" in an ironic way.

I never got to watch TLK, I'd like to do it one day, but it's one of those moments I'll save to a special day (=
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DarkHououmon

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I never got to watch TLK, I'd like to do it one day, but it's one of those moments I'll save to a special day (=

Yeah, that sounds like a good idea.


Petrie.

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Well we know Bluth always dedicated himself to the "classic Disney style" of drawing and stuff so I can understand the reference to one of Walt's earliest films.

The only "rip-off" you can even remotely compare would be LBT = Dinosaur, not the Lion King.  Heck, even the animators on the Lion King jokingly said they were trying to create "Bambi in Africa" so I doubt they were looking at LBT for inspiration.


Noname

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Keep in mind that the greater part of TLK's inspiration comes from Shakespeare's Hamlet, not bambi,LBT, or Kimba the White Lion.


DarkHououmon

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That is what they say, but I don't believe that TLK got more inspiration from Hamlet than Kimba. Disney itself will never admit it, though.

Here's an article about the TLK/KTWL issue: http://www.kimbawlion.com/rant2.htm

Reading this, it's hard to believe that Hamlet would have had a greater influence on TLK than KTWL.


Noname

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The irony is that much of anime's style comes from Disney. So TLK is, in part, a copy of a copy... in appearence only. I'm sure the themes of TLK and Kimba are quite different.


DarkHououmon

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Not to mention many of the scenes were similar. The rock, the stampede, the eating of bugs, the evil sibling of a parent, the thorn bush, etc. Not to mention that TLK has a matching character in Kimba.

But yes the stories are a bit different, since Kimba focuses more on the relationship between humans animals while The Lion King focuses more on circle of life and facing the past.


novaflare

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Quote from: Ratiasu,Jan 31 2007 on  08:32 PM
Honestly, just because some lines are the same and there are similar happenings between two movies doesn't mean they copied each other. :\
I dissagree. Maybe back in the days when walt was alive simularities between films from diffrent movie houses could be dismissed but with isner in control of disney well this guy hasnt had a original idea in his life.  Watch lion king and aladin. Look at the background of each film carefully and watch the sky in the bg carefully.

What you will see is blatent seems in the bg where it was reused over and over in a cookie cutter like fasion. If you do a pixel by pixel comparison on sme clouds in both films you will see that clouds and infact entire sections of sky were recycled from one film to the other.

circle of life  was stolen blatently from the land before time. My first thought when hearing the song was you have got to be kidding me.

Then theres the movie dinosaurs by disney that is a rip off of the land before time totally. Even the way they enter their nesting grounds is the same as land before time. The very lay out is the same in alot of respect. Now this could be atributed to the fact that the land before time great valy is infact based off a real place as seen in the first jurasic park. If you watch the scene of the helecopter landing in jp1 you will notice that that valy often called a bowle shaped valy is darn near identical in lay out to the great valy in lbft.  Even the rivers are quite similar to the original lbft movie.

So isner and his crew could have simply used the same location in newzeland or where ever as a base for their own film. But the reason they would do so is obvious. The location is visualy stunning and before jp it was never used in a film.

Did lbft barrow from bambi hard to say ive not seen that paticular film in over 30 years. I may have a vhs here some where if i can find a vcr to play it on heh.

I have beena fan of animation all my life and in all my 36 years ive become very adapt at spoting things many others will miss in animation.

Example and this shows that lbft was entirly done by hand. Little foot and ducky ducky singing step on a crack and youll fall and break your back. They both stop and look at each other for soem secounds. Look down by their feet. Watch those cracks in the ground as they wiggle and change shape a bit :)

Same thing happens in one of the cave scenes nearing the end of the film. Lots of little things like that point to just how much of the original film was done by hand and not by stamping a single image over and over and placing the chars on said image.

Both are valid meathods dont get me wrong. But the new disney takes this stamping to the extreme and really ruins the quality of their films. Their ability to last for generations just is not there. Their ability to keep us adults intrested in the films does not exist. I watched the lion king once in my life and that was enough.

Have the fun for me is spoting these little thing in animation and truth be told ive already seen some of the same things in the new lbft series. Todays ep i seen was the story speakers ep. And the water effects n the water crossing were just amazing.
Yesterdays eps showed a close up of little foot speaking and singing and they took the time and effort to even animate his tounge. Thats what you call atention to detail and what makes films and series like the land before time franchise a special thing indeed.