Flight System Discussion

Serris · **on:** March 10, 2009, 11:55:47 PM

Since the latest update now has flight I want to add this here as a brainstorming panel.

So far it seems like gliding is added.

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I like the idea of aerobatics but I'm not sure if it is in line with LBT (granted Great Day of the Flyers had some aerobatics). These could be used for showing off or for evasive maneuvers (kind of like how some aerobatic maneuvers seen in airshows are used in dogfights). Hell, it might be an interesting quest to have an "airshow/aerobatics competition".

Of course, aerobatic maneuvers would have to be learned from an instructor (Pterano?)

I'm not sure if an air racing competition is a good idea either. It would make for an interesting quest.

Should we add the idea of thermals and updrafts as a way to extend glides?

There should be some areas that are "no fly zones" (too windy, low oxygen, too cold) to add a challenge.

DarkWolf91 · **Reply #1 on:** March 10, 2009, 11:58:19 PM

No fly zones could be a nasty surprise. You're flying along, and all of a sudden your stamina plummets! That's not to say I'm against it... Sounds interesting

Serris · **Reply #2 on:** March 11, 2009, 12:02:41 AM

I'd assume that different types of no fly zones cause different problems:

Strong wind: controls get scrambled
Temperature extreme: drops stamina at accelerated rate.
Low oxygen: Stamina drops at much faster rate. When stamina is depleted, minor damage starts occurring at regular intervals.

Kor · **Reply #3 on:** March 11, 2009, 02:53:04 AM

Though one should get a warning so the player could feel the effect of a no fly is coming on so they know to land if they don't want to chance it or they can choose to try to though it out or fly through it. Or else it may get very annoying for some players.

fancy flying could be possible, maybe at a certain level, or once one's flying skill gets to a certain level, or it could be a different independent skill, aerobatics or somesuch, different then basic flight skill & used in different situations.

Mumbling · **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2009, 03:01:34 AM

You can do some kind of air racing competition. One idea to follow the right track is by creating donutshaped clouds where one can fly though. (Took idea from harry potter quidditch) It's an idea so you won't lose track.

I think it would be nice if you'd have such a competition against flyers from another place than the great valley. Could be a quest to show what the great valley flyers are worth.

Malte279 · **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2009, 05:32:13 AM

I think it would be a good and plausible measure to let stamina drop at a very fast pace from a certain altitude up for lack of oxygen as you suggested Serris.
Tim and I have been discussing flying for a while and there are some interesting ideas but it is uncertain whether or not they can be programmed, so all of the following are just ideas and it is not sure whether or not they can be implemented in the game.

-Wind direction and strength changing randomly. Flying against the wind would increase stamina decrease and slow you down while flying with the wind would do the opposite and flying with the wind from left or right you would be gradually pushed in that direction of course and may have to correct your course. From a certain strength on it would be just impossible to fly against the wind (and inadvisable to fly for the risk of being blown against some obstacle and get hurt).
If wind is funneled through narrow canyons in a rocky wall this might increase the wind strength there quite a bit even when it is moderate in the landscape around. If you stand on the leeside (the side shielded from the wind) of a rocky-wall or the like there would of course be no wind but one may be in for a surprise if one gets out of the leeside.
Along rocky walls and mountainsides winds are likely to come as an updraft or downdraft depending on the temperature. If the sun is shining on a rocky wall it is likely to warm up the air in that part creating an updraft that would carry you up with little stamina cost. If the rocky wall lies in the shadow the winds may carry you down instead as they would cool down.
We did discuss flying options like flapping (you gain altitude while flapping and you need to flap at any time to keep altitude unless some updraft is carrying you. Flapping will of course increase stamina loss during flight) and gliding (you save stamina while gliding, but you loose altitude too unless you are gliding on a significant updraft), folding your wings (this would be a kind of emergency dive if you go down very steeply you will accelerate at little stamina loss but at a high loss of altitude. You want to spread your wings again to slow down before you hit the ground or it will be a case of "poor, poor Petrie").
If all that could be realized flying could become quite interesting in the game (much more than just walking around without earth beneath your feet) but whether or not it can be realized is yet to be seen.

DarkWolf91 · **Reply #6 on:** March 11, 2009, 08:33:22 AM

Sounds like a fantastic system! If it's ever implemented the character should definitely be made aware of it in-game, though. Perhaps the first time you experience it your character could say something like, "Boy, these winds are really strong!" or "Man, it's freezing up here! I don't know how long I can keep this up!" or "AUGH I can't breathe!"

Or, failing that, maybe you should have a quest very early on in the game in which an NPC teaches you all about the dangers of flying.

Malte279 · **Reply #7 on:** March 11, 2009, 08:35:48 AM

I suppose there would have to be some detailed introduction to flying on the tutorial ground. Same goes for swimming and other special tasks of course. It remains to be seen how much of the plans can be realized.

Serris · **Reply #8 on:** March 11, 2009, 04:09:50 PM

Another thing about the dive, what happens if you crash into the ground?

I'd assume instant death might be a little too irritating.

I think a good penalty for diving into the ground would be severe damage.

I'd assume collision with a solid object would cause damage if the speed is high enough.

As for the air races I can see some course variants:

1.) Easy - Plains Chase. This is an ordinary race on flat ground and in the sky. There are no obstructions and the turns are not very sharp.

2.) Medium - Forest Flight. This is a race through the forest. Trees will obstruct the path and there are a few sharp turns but aerobatic skills are not required.

3.) Hard - Canyon Run. This is a high speed race (courtesy of the strong winds) through a twisting canyon with a river through it. You cannot fly over the canyon (that's called cheating!). Aerobatic skills are a must as sharp turns and obstructions are common.

Malte279 · **Reply #9 on:** March 11, 2009, 04:53:12 PM

If the different wind effects can be programmed some of such races might be about planning as well. Depending on the wind direction the shortest route may not always be the fastest if it means flying through some canyon that funnels headwind.

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I'd assume instant death might be a little too irritating.

Depends. Of course we have seen Petrie made many rough landings and I fully agree that we ought not to send flyer characters harping on a cloud every time a landing doesn't quite work out. Yet in the hypothetical case that someone folded wings at a high altitude to dive a far distance against solid rock the consequences should be adequate, which in this case would proapably mean fatal.

NaNaNa · **Reply #10 on:** March 11, 2009, 05:32:45 PM

Well when you do decide to tempt fate and stay in the icy cold debris filled air and come plummeting down, you should have some sort of a jerky and rugged control of your character (rugged doesn't sound like the right word but whatever). You wouldn't be able to flap your wings to rise back up again, but you be able to control your character enough to crash land them into a "soft spot" like a pile of leaves or a lake

Serris · **Reply #11 on:** March 11, 2009, 05:51:47 PM

I'd assume that loss of stamina would result in having to glide to a safe landing zone.

If the weather is too poor for flight the character will simply say, "It's too dangerous to fly." or something similar.

Malte279 · **Reply #12 on:** March 11, 2009, 06:09:25 PM

If stamina goes to zero you would loose consciousness which might result in a rather hard landing, so one should always keep an eye on the stamina bar. At least there is a realistic chance not to fall too hard in a winter landscape. A thick layer of snow would probably cushion even a very high fall, but if you happen to land on the frozen lake... er somebody call the cleaning service :blink:

NaNaNa · **Reply #13 on:** March 11, 2009, 06:27:05 PM

Indeed, so basically that would just depend on if there was something soft and squishy right under you.

That gives me a (rather unrealistic) idea. Since young flyers are small in the LBT universe, one of your friends could stand under you and catch you on their backs. It would probably still hurt, but its better than the aforementioned frozen lake

Serris · **Reply #14 on:** March 11, 2009, 06:29:49 PM

Wouldn't the impact of even a small object falling at rather high speed landing cause minor damage to both parties?

NaNaNa · **Reply #15 on:** March 11, 2009, 06:34:43 PM

Quote from: Serris,Mar 11 2009 on 05:29 PM

Wouldn't the impact of even a small object falling at rather high speed landing cause minor damage to both parties?

Yeah well its probably nothing Spike can't handle. Wouldn't expect someone like Ducky to do it though

Malte279 · **Reply #16 on:** March 11, 2009, 07:00:46 PM

^ I think the emphasis was on the word "minor".

If something as light as a bird falls from a high altitude (if they die in midair or falling from a tree) the damage is sadly serious even though they are light

The matter is different with insects who have a solid chitin armor on the outside. It is not their lesser weight that protects them from harm (light and heavy objects fall at the same speed if they offer the same resistance to air), but that armor. As none of our flyers will have such armors players who "use" them carelessly would have to face the consequences.
Many have been complaining about the later sequels being too harmless and childfriendly without any real danger. The same is not the aim for the game.

NaNaNa · **Reply #17 on:** March 11, 2009, 07:28:16 PM

No one really has armor except for maybe the clubtails...Which would probably mess up the flyer falling on them. That wouldn't be too nice.

Well I suppose shrubbery or water will have to do

Kor · **Reply #18 on:** March 11, 2009, 07:51:34 PM

Water isn't all that soft from what I heard if you are high up. I heard one former ww2 I think it was paratrooper or somesuch who said if you are high enough up landing on water is like slamming into a brick wall. Though at lower altitudes water may indeed be soft to land in. & I'd guess since they are hollow boned they may have an easier time floating on the surface of water then those who have solid bones.

Some dinos did have built in armor, including a type of longneck, and some spiketails had instead of those plates on their back with just spikes at the end instead their plates were replaced with spikes around half way down their backs down to their tails, though the odds of landing or crashing into one of those types would be very rare.

Malte279 · **Reply #19 on:** March 11, 2009, 09:34:10 PM

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Water isn't all that soft from what I heard if you are high up. I heard one former ww2 I think it was paratrooper or somesuch who said if you are high enough up landing on water is like slamming into a brick wall. Though at lower altitudes water may indeed be soft to land in. & I'd guess since they are hollow boned they may have an easier time floating on the surface of water then those who have solid bones.

People commit suicide by leaping from the Golden Gate Bridge. Even that is high enough to kill you if you hit on water.
Anyway, back to topic, it will be possible to land safely and if you make minor mistakes causing a rough landing you are not going to be killed of right away. But it won't be the type of game where people will enjoy immortality if they work to get their character killed. Letting a flyer drop from high altitudes is not a healthy idea and I see no reason why those who feel they have to do that anyway to their character should not see the consequences.