The Gang of Five
The Land Before Time => General Land Before Time => Character Discussion => Topic started by: Noname on October 29, 2008, 10:08:47 PM
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Well, at long last, a thread on her is opened. She dies like 20 minutes into the first film, and is only mentioned a handful of times in the later films and is shown briefly in a flashback.
We can surmise that she is kind, motherly, protective of her only child, and that she is not strong enough or tough enough to fight a Tyrannosaurus and live. Either way, she fought out of protectiveness, courage, and probably instinct to keep her son from being eaten.
She would probably still be alive if Bron had not left to find food for the family or whatever he left for...
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yes, I still found these scenes good . I found the first cute and I found the second sad
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We can also say that she was brought up (by her parents who are judging from their attitude in LBT 10 the grandparents of Littlefoot we have seen in all of the movies) in the old racist ways and that (though we don't know about her personal stand on it) she didn't question it nor bothered at a real explanation when Littlefoot questioned it. This does not by itself make her a "bad character" but she seems to have been somewhere in between Cera's father's racism and Ducky's parents apparent lack of such. It is that later point which made me wonder if the racism was a specific longneck / threehorn thing (http://www.gangoffive.net/index.php?topic=1356).
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I don't think we can talk about racism, it's just the way of life. We have cases of symbiotic behavior between different species, and cases of bondage like humans with their pets, however, for the most part each species just hangs out with their kind, we can't transfer human emotions and ideals to animals even if we are talking about a cartoon. I doubt Don Bluth intended to make Littlefoot's mother's arguments sound racist, it's just part of the natural order of things.
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I do think that racism was very deliberately picked as a topic of the land before time rather than one to be just accepted by the audience as a "natural order of things" with Littlefoot and the others being just plain unnatural.
In spite of the much larger physical difference between dinosaurs of different species compared to humans of a different skin color (one of the most frequent basis for racism among humans) the comparison of the situation between humans and animals does not work out in this context. Not only is the often harmful attitude of humans towards animals not usually to be described with the term "racism" but also humans and animals are unable to communicate with each other on a sensible level (they can certainly share emotions and certain commands may be trained to a pet, but it is absolutely no same eye-level type of communication). The leafeating dinosaurs of LBT however can talk to each other just the way humans of different complexion could.
They are capable of thinking in abstract and reason based terms and therefore question the reason for any case of segregation between species (something we cannot say about animals), and the racism exists in spite of the fact that the different kinds of dinosaurs are fully aware of the ability of the other kinds to communicate and think on their level (no matter how much a given kind might claim being the smartest).
For all this I really think the racism in LBT was meant to be a story element and the overcoming of the racism by the main characters made up for one of the important morals of the movie.
The comparison of the situation to that between humans and animals doesn't work out as plausibly as a comparison between inter human racism, in my opinion.
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It does seem that some areas were more prone to these specism feelings then other areas, and within those areas some families were not prone to it.
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I don't think that Littlefoot's mother was a "speciest", but that she was one of those people who was content to love only those who loved her; in other words, she didn't hate other species, but she had no specific care about them either. I suppose that that is indifference, although she DID rescue Cera as well as Littlefoot from falling down the cliff, although it is probable that she would have to save both anyway as a part of the action of saving her son (she just happened to grab them both.)
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I beg to differ. I truly believed she saved Cera out of the kindness of her heart. I mean, if you're a human of one race and saw a child of another race you're prejudice against in peril, would ya save him or her? Or let the child die simply 'cuz the race factor blinds ya to the value of a life? On another note, even if she did not question the racist attitudes of different species, she did not react to Littlefoot playing with Cera to the extreme that Mr. Threehorn did. She certainly did not seem to mind until Mr. Threehorn acted like a raging idiot. Sure, he's protective of Cera, which I believe he has every valid reason to. After all, she's all he has left of his original family. However, Littlefoot was just a BABY for heaven's sake! There was no need for such a reaction 'cuz Cera was not in emminent danger. My point is, I don't believe Littlefoot's mother is as racist as she may seem to be. Just 'cuz she does not really express her view on racism explicitly does not mean she's a racist. Sometimes, out of fear, folks do not speak up against a widely supported view even though they oppose it. Look at the Nazi regime's Holocaust movement as an example. From what I understand, many Germans and other Europeans opposed the mission to exterminate the Jewish race but were too intimidated to rise up, for they would've been killed just the same. Same with the Emancipation Proclamation and the Ku Klux Klan. Caucasians were afraid to support the African-Americans openly, for they would've ended up lynched themselves. Now, in regard to the LBT culture, it is possible the dinos were afraid of being shunned from their herds, not necessarily murdered. There is safety in numbers, and to be alone out there with the elements, predators and a child to protect is an awfully treacherous predicament to be in. She did the best she could, and just 'cuz she SACRIFICED her life does not make her weak, but rather a heroine in the sense that she died so others (Littlefoot and Cera) could live. That, to me, is true strength. Someone who, no matter what their physical strength is, risks their hide to save others is what defines a strong person. She's a hero, not a weak coward, and for that one of several reasons is a well-liked character by me.
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Likely she would have reacted like Littlefoot's grandparents in the Great Valley do and put those sorts of things aside. Bron didn't seem to have any of those at all. Though he was not retconned till the 10th moive.
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I don't think his mom was as racist as accepting of the dinosaur segregation. When she was talking to Littlefoot about how the different species didn't do anything together, I didn't find it as blatant racism. I thought she said in in a matter-of-fact way.
As for how much I like her...I love her! The only one I like more is Grandpa. We literally saw less than half an hour of Littlefoot's mom, but she won a place in my heart. She was so sweet, faithful and motherly. And like I have said so many times already, her death was the first movie scene I ever cried at. I find that pretty remarkable for a three-year-old. :lol
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I adore Littlefoot's mother. She is everything a parent should be: Kind, compassionate, loving, fearless, wise...And I'm sure Littlefoot had told his mom (off camera of course :DD ) she's the prettiest mom around. :)
Racist? I don't think so. Notice how she doesn't lay into Littlefoot for playing with Cera, unlike Topsy who's daily filling his daughter's head with his bigotry. BTW it appears LBT deals with species superiority. Didn't ceratopsians develop after the big sauropods? And since they were more specialized (horns, frills, etc), Topsy gets this "I'm better than you" attitude. I won't get into Topsy's bigotry now as that's a whole other topic.
Anyway, she quietly explained why Littlefoot couldn't play with Cera. "We never do anything together." And he asks why. The reply? "It's always been that way."
I got the same explanation after my folks moved to a white neighborhood and we went to the majority white school, and some of the kids wouldn't even speak to us. It's always been that way until something big comes along and challenges the old ways. Like earthquakes and Sharpteeth.
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She is not really racist and in the moment of danger saves Cera along with Littlefoot, but she is certainly not the type who would by herself try to change the world for the better by not just nodding of the status quo. When Littlefoot asks her about this segregation she does not really question it (it has always been that way) but sort of cuts Littlefoot questioning short (don't worry too much). She may be somewhat indifferent to the subject apparently having never given the matter too much thought herself.
I'm under the impression that LBT is really an extremely changing world (which has been spelled out repeatedly throughout the movies) and that the attitude of the kinds has undergone tremendous changes within the short time span of the movies after it may have undergone very little change for millions of years.
Accustomed to it Littlefoot's mother doesn't actively promote racism but accepts it as a fact of life and (probably out of concern for his safety rather than racism) would rather see Littlefoot with other kids of his own kind.
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Also it does seem that not all areas are ones where others of different kinds don't do anything together. The bullies didn't seem to dislike certain types, they disliked anyone younger and smaller all equally. Rhett, Shorty, Pat didn't seem to feel any different towards someone if they were a longneck or not a longneck. Ducky & Petrie didn't seem to react to the others in any other special way since they were not flyers or swimmers like them. So it may only be certain areas where folks tend to be more speciest then others & some areas and herds are not really at all.
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I think in fact (just my interpretation though) that Hyp's friendship with Nod, and Mutt is not due to the fact that they lived in different place, but that in fact it would have been just as extraordinary as the friendship of Littlefoot and the others just a short time before the first movie.
My interpretation is that those dinosaurs hit by whatever befell the world east of the Great Valley in the original movie sort of moved closer together and that the abandoning of racism by Littlefoot and the others was just one part of something much larger affecting all the dinosaurs of the region who ultimately end up in the Great Valley.
Ali's herd (not from the same region) still maintains some of the racism though it may be wavering for them too. The Spiketails in LBT 8 don't show any strong racist attitude (their behavior in forbidden friendship is obviously not racist in nature), but they are also a Spiketails only herd. The farwalkers in LBT 7 on the other hand are a mixed lot. Perhaps the hardships they faced in "the cold lands" were similar to the plights east of the Great Valley contributing to a stronger community spirit?
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It could be that other directions from the great valley folks were less speciest or not at all.
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Which, if it is so, may be caused by the environment they are living in. Some regions may be save enough so the dinosaurs there can "afford" being racist as they are not in need of the help of other species. On the other hand regions of sparse food might also have the opposite effect, promoting racism when it comes to competing about what little food there is. In the original movie the recognition that the individual of one kind depended on the help of others to survive brought the different kinds together and that spirit is (to some degree) kept up in the Great Valley even though there is no as pronounced dependency on each other anymore.
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I wonder if his mother, had she survived, would have ignored the other characters in the GOF. She seemed to me like the kind who followed the "rules" blindly. While we are shown that Topps considers himself superior, there is no indication that she thinks so. There even seemed to be a mutual understanding between her and Topps. As mentioned before, she saves Cera when she falls with Littlefoot. I imagine that she would have easily adapted, like the rest of the GV residents, and would not have left the other members of the GOF behind. It all depends on whether or not you think she would object to looking after another species of dinosaur, as Topps definitely would have in the past. She might have even rescued the others without a thought.
I wonder though, since the racism between species is lesser if non-existent in the later films, I wonder if it varies from region to region. Thicknose's flashback in 8 suggests that the GV had no such racism in his youth. Unless the GV has always been like this, it makes you wonder if the racism between different dinosaurs evolved out of a sparsity of food in certain areas. Look how quickly Topps and the others are quick to attack eachother in LBT 3. It could have started as insults and grown from there.
(Darn! Again, I forget my theory! Halfway through this page I forget what I was going to say.)
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I would guess it differs with region and some herds since in the movies there has been herds and individuals who didn't seem to have the speciest attitude. Ducky & Petrie don't seem to have it in the first film. The Spiketail herd seems to not have it. Ali, though afraid of non longnecks, doesnt' seem to have the attitude that the longnecks are better then other non longnecks. Bron and Shorty didn't seem to have that in the 10th movie, Pat also didn't seem to have it.
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I'm sure that had she lived, she would have been in a position similar to her mother (grandma longneck), and would not have been a racist. Did she accept those rules on the way to the valley? Yes, but they seem to have mostly disposed of them when they get to the valley.
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Remember how she died, well there was video of her death on youtube, and the title was
"Lol, Littlefoot's mother dies"
That person must hate LBT alot, even the deceased characters, if they call a video that.
EDIT Found the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwOI_l7spJw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwOI_l7spJw&feature=related)
Can you actually believe this person would name a video that?
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Remember how she died, well there was video of her death on youtube, and the title was
"Lol, Littlefoot's mother dies"
That person must hate LBT alot, even the deceased characters, if they call a video that.
EDIT Found the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwOI_l7spJw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwOI_l7spJw&feature=related)
Can you actually believe this person would name a video that?
Oh that's nothing, you should read the comments and see how he butchered one of the most depressing scenes ever.
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was littlefoots mother grandma and grandpa longnecks only daugther?
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^We don't know that. But if you look at how many eggs were in the nest in which Littlefoot had hatched (for some reason they were all cracked except Littlefoot's), you can see that longnecks lay a lot of eggs, and with any luck (most nests probably wouldn't look so bad as Littlefoot's) at least several of those eggs would hatch. From this we can assume that Littlefoot's mother likely had several brothers and sisters, at least during her childhood.
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It's so sad that she died, but if she hadn't the whole series would be completely different :yes
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It's so sad that she died, but if she hadn't the whole series would be completely different :yes
It's so sad that she died, but if she hadn't the whole series would be completely different :yes
It's so sad that she died, but if she hadn't the whole series would be completely different :yes
That's the understatement of the Epoch! It would have gone like this:
Land Before Time (original) events
Scenario 1: Littlefoot does not wander off. Sharptooth goes after Cera instead of both Littlefoot and Cera. As Littlefoot does not call for his mother, as he is still asleep, Sharptooth eats Cera for a late
night snack. Sharptooth continues on his reign of terror afterward, killing and eating more dinosaurs the rest of his. (Note, the events after this are the same as Scenario 2.)
Scenario 2: Littlefoot and Cera are chased by Sharptooth. They are rescued by Littlefoot's mother, who is able to dodge being mortal wounded by Sharptooth. Sharptooth may or may not have been killed
(if he isn't, he will kill again over and over for the rest of his life.) The Great Earthshake happens. Herds are separated. Littlefoot remains with his alive mother and never meets Cera, Ducky, Petrie, or
Spike. Cera may have met the others and led them. They likely would have followed Cera to the Mountains that Burn, where Ducky, Petrie, and Spike would not have been saved by Littlefoot, who never
met them, and hence perished in lava. Cera, unable to be rescued by the others, would have become a snack for Domeheads. Littlefoot is the only main character left of the five now and comes to the Great
Valley with his mother. However, he is dismayed to see that, unlike what his mother thought, there seem to be few longnecks to play with and, having never met Cera, Ducky, Petrie, and Spike, may have
been a believer in herd separation and hence had few friends.
Land Before Time II: Great Valley Adventure events
- As Cera, Ducky, Petrie, and Spike have died, Littlefoot wasn't awoken by them and slept through the night. Ozzy and Strut meanwhile, unbothered by the kids, most of whom have died, are able to get
eggs without being hampered.
- As Littlefoot slept through the night, Chomper's egg wasn't moved. They never became friends. Chomper hatches and stays with his parents. He becomes a regular sharptooth, learning to eat the meat of
other dinosaurs.
Land Before Time III: The Time of Great Giving (events)
- With all of the gang dead, except possibly Littlefoot, Hyp wans't rescued and died in the tar pit.
- Members of the Great Valley may have died without the help of Cera, Ducky, Petrie, and Spike and Hyp.
- Littlefoot, Nod, and Mutt might have died, unable to push the boulder at the Velociraptors without the help of Cera, Ducky, Petrie, Spike, and Hyp.
Land Before Time IV: Journey through the Mists (which may have come before Land Before Time III chronologically) events
- Littlefoot and Ali set out alone, as they actually did in the regular universe Land Before Time, and try and get the Night Flower to save Grandpa Longneck. However, without the help of the others, Ali is
unable to break the rocks after the earthshake alone. Littlefoot and Archie are killed and eaten by Dil and Ichy.
- Not getting the Nightflower, Grandpa Longneck succumbs to his illness and dies.
- Ali has some explaining to do to Littlefoot's mother and Grandma Longneck of why Littlefoot will never be coming back. The two older longneck's mourn the deaths of both Littlefoot and Grandpa
Longneck.
- It is possible that Grandma Longneck and Littlefoot's mother may have left the Great Valley with Ali's herd, as Grandpa Longneck and Littlefoot are dead. If they did, there will be no more longnecks left
in the Great Valley.
- Ali spends the rest of her life haunted by the death of Littlefoot, likley beating herself up for agreeing to take him toward the Land of Mists. The two have no hope of falling in love now as Littlefoot is
dead.
- Ali may have eventually gotten through the rock wall only to be made a meal by Dil and Ichy herself.
Land Before Time V: The Mysterious Island (events)
- with Littlefoot and the gang dead and without Grandpa Longneck, the herds would undoubtably have split up, many may have died of hunger and thirst, and it is unknown how many, if any, would
return to the Great Valley as they wouldn't have found all of the food wihtout the children's efforts.
- Chomper continues to eat meat and continues on his path to be a regular Sharptooth
Land Before Time VI: Secrets of Saurus Rock events
- Events here aren't as drastic, though the Great Valley might not be that inhabited after the events of the previous movie in this altered universe. However, Grandpa Longneck and the five main characters are dead in this altered universe.
- Bad luck wouldn't have hit the Great Valley, as Saurus Rock was never broken. However, given the other events of this altered timeline, this is very small consolation indeed.
- As Grandpa Longneck is dead and Doc wold never have gone near Saurus Rock, the two sharpteeth seen in the Great Valley might still be alive.
Land Before Time VII: The Stone of Cold Fire events
- Without anyone believing that there is good in him and with no chance at redemption, Pterano would almost certainly have remained bad and, over time, become as evil as Rinkus and Sierra.
Land Before Time VIII: The Big Freeze events
- Without being able to help the children, Mr. Thicknose might not have been able to get redemption and may have fallen out of favor with the grownups and lost his teaching position.
- The Mountain Sharptooth, having never been killed by Thicknose as he'd have no reason to go into the Mysterious Beyond, would have lived and killed more dinosaurs for food.
- Tippy and his herd, having not been rescued by the others, as they are all dead, would have died of hunger in the Mysterious Beyond.
Land Before Time IX: Journey to Big Water events
- Mo, having not been helped to find his home again, may well have been killed by the Swimming Sharptooth when he got free.
Land Before Time X: Great Longneck Migration events
- Grandma Longneck goes on the journey with Littlefoot's mother. Grandpa Longneck and Littlefoot have long been dead.
- There they meet Bron, who hears the sad news that his son and father-in-law have died. Littlefoot's Mother would have lived with her husband upon finding him. Grandma Longneck, now a widow, may
also have stayed with them. In this case, there would be no longnecks left in the Great Valley.
Land Before Time XI: Invasion of the Tinysauruses events
- Big Daddy and the other Tinysauruses, having never befriended Littlefoot and the others as they are all dead, will remain wary of bigger dinosaurs for the rest of their lives.
Land Before Time XII: The Great Day of Flyers events
- The Great Day of Flyers would never have been altered by Petrie as he died years earlier.
- Tricia would have drowned.
- Guido may well have fallen to his death while sleep walking as the others wouldn't have been there to rescue him.
Land Before Time XIII: The Wisdom of Friends events
- It isn't known here how things may have differed, though Loofah and Doofah might have come to a bad end without the other characters being alive.
TV Series events
- The TV Series would, for all intents and purposes, have been about Chomper, a leat-eater killing meat eater, and Ruby.
- Had Ruby met Chomper's family without them having met the Gang of Five, likely she would have become "dessert".
- Mama Flyer would have died in the mud, not rescued by Chomper. Petrie's siblings would now be orphans. (Maybe they'd live with Pterano, which wouldn't bode well for them.)
- Dara would have died as Chomper wouldn't have been there to save her either.
- Without Petrie and Guido being around, Swooper would have stayed at Hanging Rock.
- Skip would have died in that fire.
- Belly Draggers might have eaten someone as Cera wouldn't have foiled them the first time.
- If Ali is still been around, she'd have kept being lied to by Rhett.
- Mama Fast Biter's eggs would have hatched near the Great Valley, which would have led to trouble.
A very depressing storyline indeed!!!!! :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry
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Mama Longneck was sweet-hearted in the time we got to know her. I agree she did have an indifference or resignation to the status quo. Of course, that didn’t prevent her from helping save Cera during the sharptooth attack. Whatever else, she doesn’t allow that feelings to get in the way when the chips are down. That was probably the last worry on her mind when she became Mama Spiritual Advisor. I surmise death can lend some perspective on what’s truly important.
If Mama Longneck somehow survived and the events of Littlefoot gaining his new friends and killing the first sharptooth remained intact, I wonder how she might have reacted to their constant adventures. Would she be the adult who open-mindedly accepts their need to go out and do adventuring things, or would she be as worried and try to stop them like the other parents. She did let Littlefoot wander around a bit when he first met Cera, so she might have been open to him fulfilling his curiosity despite some dangers. Still, her acceptance of the current speciesist status quo makes me wonder if she would have resigned herself to the same crises that other adults did throughout the series. Maybe the gang’s moments of action and adventures would have changed her view on those things.
I’m still trying to grasp her, but it’s fun to speculate on what she might do as a character.
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Littlefoot's mother surviving the sharptooth attack and playing a part in her son's future adventures... I gotta say that thought feels weird. It probably has something to do with me watching the oridinal movie at a very young age, but I never even tried to imagine what she would be like if given more screen time. Dunno, she just kinda felt... Like her character was set in stone or something. :blink:
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The role she fulfills in the movie is fine. I’m attempting to extrapolate on who she is as a person. I might end up writing her in a fic at some point, so I try to fill in the blanks and imagine what actions she would take in certain scenarios that didn’t take place on film.
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We can also say that she was brought up (by her parents who are judging from their attitude in LBT 10 the grandparents of Littlefoot we have seen in all of the movies) in the old racist ways and that (though we don't know about her personal stand on it) she didn't question it nor bothered at a real explanation when Littlefoot questioned it. This does not by itself make her a "bad character" but she seems to have been somewhere in between Cera's father's racism and Ducky's parents apparent lack of such. It is that later point which made me wonder if the racism was a specific longneck / threehorn thing (http://www.gangoffive.net/index.php?topic=1356).
'You raise an interesting point. I assume that Grand Pa Longneck and Grand Ma Longneck reformed in their views of other dinosaurs, because how do you explain Grand Pa and Grand Ma Longneck working with the other herds and being alright straight from beginning of LBTII: The Great Valley Adventure with Little Foot playing with Cera, Petrie, Ducky, and Spike? If Little Foot's Mother was taught the "we longnecks and longnecks spend time with longnecks" by Grand Pa and Grand Ma Longneck, then either Grand Pa and Grand Ma reformed by having to work with Topsy/Mr. Threehorn and the other diverse herds in same way Little Foot did with his friends, or the Gang of Five influenced them (which is hard to believe considering LBTII opening scenes and the whole grown up story arch where the kids don't feel the parents trust them to be grown up).
Little Foot's Mother was a traditionalist, and it was Little Foot and Cera's interaction that was harbinger for Sharptooth to arrive (unless you believe Sharptooth would have arrived anyway and attack Little Foot's Mother and company in their sleep, I am not sure how close Little Foot's Mother and Grand Pa and Grand Ma's sleeping quarters were to the bog Little Foot and Cera played at).
Little Foot's Mother did defeat Sharptooth but at cost of her own life. And she reformed in one way, she saves both Little Foot and Cera when they fall with Sharptooth, she could have just saved Little Foot.
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We can also say that she was brought up (by her parents who are judging from their attitude in LBT 10 the grandparents of Littlefoot we have seen in all of the movies) in the old racist ways and that (though we don't know about her personal stand on it) she didn't question it nor bothered at a real explanation when Littlefoot questioned it. This does not by itself make her a "bad character" but she seems to have been somewhere in between Cera's father's racism and Ducky's parents apparent lack of such. It is that later point which made me wonder if the racism was a specific longneck / threehorn thing (http://www.gangoffive.net/index.php?topic=1356).
Interesting points. Littlefoot’s parents however do shift in their racism or dinocism in LBTII-XIV. We see Grandpa Longneck and Grandma working with the diverse herds. But the idea that there is a particular enmity between longnecks and threehorns can be supported by Grandpa Longneck and Mr. Threehorn (Topsy) often disagreeing and fighting, an in LBTIII Topsy risking his life and Cera’s to be right.
I will say of Littlefoot’s Mother that she instilled in him the impetus to find the Great Valley, telling him the landmarks, which enabled him and the rest of Gang to find not only the valley, but their families. In fact, had it not been for Littlefoot’s mom, Littlefoot and Cera would have been a meal for Sharptooth, and the whole Gang would be still trapped in Mysterious Beyond. In fact, Littlefoot’s Mother (who I will call Motherfoot) appeared as a cloudasaur and lead Littlefoot to the Great Valley when he and Gang couldn’t find it.