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New planet discovered

The Chronicler

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http://www.space.com/18089-earth-size-alie...a-centauri.html

Just a few days ago, it was announced that a planet was discovered orbiting Alpha Centauri, the closest star to us. It is only slightly larger than Earth, but orbits very close at a distance of only 3.6 million miles (6 million kilometers).

I find this discovery very fascinating, since this is the closest star to us we're talking about here, only 4.3 light-years away. This also proves that Earth-like planets are very common, and could even be be found much closer to us than we once thought. I wonder how long it'll be before we send a space probe to explore this newly-discovered planet?

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Chiletrek

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Hello:
 Well, that surely looks like the best first place to start exploring exo-planets, whenever we are able to get outside our own Solar System though, but if there is a planet there, then it is very sure that there might be others in that same system, so maybe fascinating things could be found.

 Thanks for sharing the news! :DD .


Kor

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It is very fascinating indeed.  I wonder if it has any sort of atmosphere or if they can get much information about it such as from the light of Alpha Centari that pass through it's atmosphere, assuming it has an atmosphere, it may lack one totally due to how close it is and other factors.


Chomper98

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jansenov

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I read about this a few days ago. The precision of this method is astounding. A body that has the mass of Earth will cause very fine wobbling in the movement of a body of much greater mass, like Alpha Centauri. In this case it was on the order of half a meter per second. And it was detected. Imagine that!

Combined with the discoveries from Kepler (which uses a different method of detection, by observing the changes a planet makes in a star's electromagnetic spectrum), I think it is safe to say that in our galaxy of 300 billion stars there hundreds of millions of Earth-like planets.

I think that also in our time, such large, ultra-thin telescopes will be built that we we will have images of continents and detailed spectrograms (from which the composition of the atmosphere can be seen) of planets that are hundreds of light years away. We will have mountains of data before a single probe is sent to another star.  

But by that time, I suspect it will be possible to build just the necessary kind of probe. A solar sail that is only dozens of nanometers thick could achieve speeds up to 5% of the speed light, and do an Alpha Centauri fly-by in 86 years. Since such vessels would be very cheap ( if the price of carbon nanotubes continues to drop in the next decades, we're talking about 5-500$ a piece for square kilometer sail), millions could be built to explore the entire solar neighbourhood in detail that is beyond the reach of telescopes.

A more ambitious probe, that which could also land on a planet's surface, would require its own propulsion. In the case of interstellar missions, that means nuclear fission to reach 2% of speed light, or fusion to reach 10% of speed of light. Such means of propulsion will also be available in a few decades. Such a probe would be more expensive than the solar sail, but coupled with a good AI it would be like having a crew of scientists on a planet's surface, or in the depths of its oceans, depending on the mission profile.

We are living in exciting times. :D


Ptyra

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May I say that Alpha Centauri is one of my favorite names for anything ever?

Thanks a lot, Crystal Gayle

Heck, I saw a FABRIC that made me think "Alpha Centauri" XD ...and I want to make a sci-fi story about an expedition (returning) to the galaxy of Alpha Centauri. Maybe I'll feature this planet

There's one part about the lyrics of that song that kind of bothers me, which is the lines
"Mad is the captain of Alpha Centauri"
What the heck is the implication "of"? Was the captain from Alpha Centauri or is "he" crazy about finding it...the answer of course is the latter, but it doesn't make much sense...


LBTLover1

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Wow...another planet discovered.  Yay! Now it's going to kick back all the other qualifications of a planet to be a planet *cough* so that planets like pluto will be kicked out *cough*


Nick22

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pluto was already kicked out, it was retitled a dwarf planet in 2006. so officially, there are only 8 planets in the solar system andd several dwarf planets.
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StrutEggStealer

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Quote from: Chomper98,Oct 21 2012 on  10:02 PM
We found Pandora.
YESS!!! And Unobtanium!

Are they saying it's an official planet, yet? Because I know the qualifications for a planet are pretty strict.
Maybe we will find new evidence of life, or sustainanable qualities for life, and if so, Mars will no longer be an option for living space
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jansenov

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^It would be kind of silly for a civilisation capable of interstellar travel to settle on a planet. A civilisation that could travel at a large fraction of the speed of light would also have access to advanced nanotechnology, and would use asteroids to build large habitats in space and place them in orbit around the local star. That way the colony could maintain billions of times a larger population than a single planet or a group of planets could ever support (because a planet's surface is too small to dissipate all the heat such a colony would generate). And that's why we, as soon as we wean off of fossil fuels and make access to low Earth orbit cheap enough, won't have to worry about overpopulating the solar system for millions of years, if we manage to overpopulate it at all.


vonboy

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Quote from: jansenov,Jan 25 2013 on  01:14 PM
^It would be kind of silly for a civilisation capable of interstellar travel to settle on a planet. A civilisation that could travel at a large fraction of the speed of light would also have access to advanced nanotechnology, and would use asteroids to build large habitats in space and place them in orbit around the local star. That way the colony could maintain billions of times a larger population than a single planet or a group of planets could ever support (because a planet's surface is too small to dissipate all the heat such a colony would generate). And that's why we, as soon as we wean off of fossil fuels and make access to low Earth orbit cheap enough, won't have to worry about overpopulating the solar system for millions of years, if we manage to overpopulate it at all.
Well, you still need MASSIVE amounts of materials for that.

Hmm, something I'm sorta wondering, if you mined on a planet/large object like mars or the Moon, which had huge metal cores, but have cooled off a lot. You could actually go to much greater depths there, and potentially find more metals, couldn't you? We can really only dig down a few miles here on earth, because after a short distance beneath the earth, it get's much too hot for humans to mine down there.

Hmm, maybe at some far-flung point in the future, we'll be breaking down entire asteroids/moons/planets for their raw materials to be used to build living space out in space for ourselves. :DD
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jansenov

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Not as massive as you think. If you want to fully use the energy output of a star, and avoid that objects in different orbits periodically block each other's sunshine, you need to surrouns with statites. A statite is a structure with a reflective surface that has a sufficiently small mass/surface ratio that the star's light supports the structure against the star's gravity. Such structures always stay in the same place, and don't circle the star in orbits. A statite can still move in any direction around the star, by bending portions of its surface (which means that radiation will exert different pressure on different sections), but once the radiation and gravity force are in equilibrium, it stays put. The star's radiation in this case acts as the cosmic equivalent of bouyancy on Earth. The statite itself must be very thin, but if its made out of carbon nanotubes (remember we are talking about a civilisation that has completely mastered nanotechnology) it can have a reflective and/or photovoltaic layer on the side turned towards the star, and support a large conventional structure, such as a habitat, on the side that's turned away from the Sun. The structure floats on the statite.

How does it work? Photons moving at the speed light have momentum, proportional to their energy.

p = E / c   p - momentum E - energy  c - speed of light

If light has momentum, this means that it is also able to exert force on an object.

Since F = p / t and P = E / t (t - time F - force P - power), we now have

F x t = P x t / c

F = P / c

The total power of the sun (Psun) is

P_sun = 3,846 x 10 ^ 26 watts (W) (by comparison, the total power of our own civilisation is 1,6 x 10 ^ 13 W, and of all life on Earth 10 ^ 14; only a trillion times less!)

which means it exerts a total radiative force of

F_r_sun = P_sun / c = 1,282 x 10 ^ 18 newtons (N)

In order for the statite to float, the gravitational force and radiative force must be the same

F_g_sun =  F_r_sun = 1,282 x 10 ^ 18 N

If we want to find out the total mass the star can support, we put F_g_sun into Newton's universal law of gravitation

F_g_sun = G x (m_sun x m_statites) / r^2     m - mass (m_sun = 1,99 x 10 ^ 30 kg) G - gravitational constant (G = 6,673 x 10 ^ (-11) m^3xkg^(-1)xs^(-2))

Let's assume we want to put our statites at a distance of 50 million kilometers (r = 5 x 10 ^ 10) from the Sun, which is near Mercury. We want to put the statites as close to the Sun as possible, because we want to save on material, but not too close, because in time their surface will be vaporised away.

Using the abovementioned formula we get

m_statites = 2,414 x 10 ^ 19 kg

This is approximately the mass of the asteroid Juno. This is 0,7 % of the mass of the asteroid belt or 0,007% of the mass of Mercury. So the amount of material in Mercury alone alone would suffice to completely surround more than 10,000 Sun-like stars with statites. And nowadays, thanks to Kepler and other exoplanet discovery missions, we are very certain that almost every star (except the old geezers that were formed immediately after the Big Bang) out there has planets and asteroids of its own.

How actually thin the statites need to be? At a distance of 50 million kilometers, the statites cover a surface of

S_statites= 4 x r ^ 2 x pi = 3,14 x 10 ^ 22 m^2

Which gives a mass/surface ratio of

m/S = 7,7 ^ 10 ^ (-4) kg/m^2 = 0,77 g/m^2

If the statite were made from aluminium, that would mean a layer of slightly less than 3 micrometers. Seems quite thin. But we only need tens of nanometers to have a reflective layer or built-in solar cells, which means the rest can be dedicated to carbon nanotubes and the structures they support.

As for mining the planets, Mercury for example, you don't have to dig deep. You can peel like an apple, remove 10 by 10 meters, and then you wait till the new surface cools down. In less than 10 million years (I'm basing this on lord Kelvin's calculation of how much time would the Earth interior require to cool to room temperature; he arrived at a figure of 90 million years; the Earth would have indeed be completely geologically dead only 90 million years after its creation, if it weren't for the uranium core in the center of planet whose radioactive decay has ensured the Earth's core remaining scorching hot for 4,5 billion years; in Kelvin's time radioactivity wasn't known) you should be able to mine the whole planet this way. You only need to find something to do with that material.  :lol


vonboy

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Can I ask you a question, Jansonov? Do you just so happen to be Ludwig Von Drake? It's just, whenever deep questions are put here, you always seem to have a good answer for it. I mean, if you only SPOKE like that Disney character, it be like you'd walk in on every kind of conversion, pull out a diploma you have in whatever they happen to be talking about, and answer all their questions. :lol

Not being mean or something, just bringing up something I just thought of, and thought was funny.
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Come give my LBT TV Series fanfiction, PAST-O-RAMA, a read!
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jansenov

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^I'm just weird.  :D Well, I've excelled at school without too much effort. People have been telling me to go to a quiz and earn some money, but I don't think I would do well on a quiz since there are huge gaps in my knowledge (my knowledge of movies, music, art and past sports events leaves a lot to be desired), and those are areas I for the most part don't like to read about (LBT is one of the exceptions).


StrutEggStealer

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Quote from: jansenov,Jan 25 2013 on  07:59 PM
but I don't think I would do well on a quiz since there are huge gaps in my knowledge
Somehow I find that very hard to believe^^ just reading your reply made me do a double-take and consider very hard about my reply.
Eloquency is definitely something to flaunt ;)

Regarding mining of Mercury: Since it is in essence a dead planet, I'd imagine it would be pretty easy to mine there. As for Mars: it is farther from the sun than Earth - one of the reasons that makes Earth so ideal for living purposes :DD - so I'd imagine it would be a little harder, as it is colder. For Mercury, you really wouldn't be trying hard to obtain new materials because it is lifeless and essentially a brittle surface...
that's what you get from being the closest planet to the sun^^
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Petrie85

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Tghat's awesome that we have found a new planet that is close to us. Hopefully we can find more information about it.


Ptyra

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Quote from: StrutEggStealer,Jan 25 2013 on  08:25 PM
As for Mars: it is farther from the sun than Earth - one of the reasons that makes Earth so ideal for living purposes :DD - so I'd imagine it would be a little harder, as it is colder.
Mars, as of right now, is actually pretty uninhabitable. It's TOO cold for people to live on and the air is too thin--it has no ozone, and a bunch of other fundamentals for air on earth that aren't present on Mars. We could potentially live there, but it would take a very long time to do. There's a theory that we would have to introduce some plants on its polar ice caps. But they'd have to be dark, really, really dark so that it can capture the light of the sun from such a far distance, and be able to flourish. This could take hundred of years, plus the time that we'd have to pick the right plant and put it through decades of artificial selection to get it to the point to plant it.

Oh yeah, and going back to the ice caps, we'd also have to melt those down so we can have access to water for a little while. Though, the plants might take care of a small part of that.


I've been watching a lot of space documentaries, okay?
Thanks a lot, Carl Sagan :neutral !


Petrie85

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Scientist's think and believe mars might one day be a planet people can live on. Not sure if that is true or not. I've see a ton of shows talking about this and they picked different planets that might one day be our new home to live on. Since one day the earth might now be here and we need a place to live and so on.


jansenov

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Mars will never be colonised en masse. Building a habitat on Mars is just as expensive as building one in space (air-tight tanks, life-support systems, radiation shileding) , but its gravity is strong enough that in order to leave Mars' surface you still need rockets, which is an expensive means of transportation (to leave an asteroid, you simply need to jump into space, and you can also approach with a very low velocity and gently land on it, all of which is impossible when leaving or landing on a planet) , but its gravity is also not strong enough for humans and other animals to develop in a normal way as they would on Earth (and in space you can rotate a cyllindrical habitat to produce a "gravity" (it is actually the centrifugal force, but the effect is same as gravity) of any strength you like).

Mars will be an interesting destination for exploration for some time, but the true space industry (e.g. mining water for deep space missions, mining rare Earth metals for Earth markets, such as platinum, mining other metals for space solar power) will develop on and near the asteroids, and colonies will follow in the industry's footsteps.

Also, when the Sun expands and starts threatening the Earth, using the Sun's radaition you simply move your habitats into orbits that are further from the Sun, and this way you will spend way less energy over a much longer period of time than trying to evacuate a civilisation from the surface of a planet. In other words, a space-based civilisation can save its whole population in this case, while a planet-based civilisation could be forced to leave the majority of its population on the planet's surface to die.



Kor

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That could be what the solar system may look like in the distant future when the sun expands.   Humans who are living in the solar system living on stuff like space station sorts of things that circle around the enlarged sun and being various sizes, city sized up to perhaps state or country sized.