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Metroid: Other M

WeirdRaptor

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Wait, fans were bashing the voice actress, too? But its Jennifer Hale. She's a class act in the world of voice acting!
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf


StarfallRaptor

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It seems like with Ridley, she has the "movie Slasher villain" response.  
Namely, the whole "Why are you not dead" thing.  I mean, Ridley was last seen sinking into a lava pool, on fire, and then the planet blew up.  And yet, here he is.  WTF.  
I'dve reacted similarly.  Plus, young Samus is so cute.


LBTFan13

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Quote from: WeirdRaptor,Sep 3 2010 on  11:37 PM
Wait, fans were bashing the voice actress, too? But its Jennifer Hale. She's a class act in the world of voice acting!
People aren't bashing the voice actress persay, they are bashing how Samus' character is viewed vastly different to what fans have her made out to be because of her having a voice with actual dialogue. For a lot of fans, it would be much better if she didn't have any dialogue, that way fans could remember her as the bad*** hero they remember. Now that she actually speaks, the fans don't view her the same.

I think she's a really good voice actress as well, and she does a great job portraying Samus. I think people just like to b**** over the stupidest reasons.


DarkHououmon

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So far, I'm not enjoying Metroid: Other M as much as I thought I would. While part of the reason is the weird controls (going to take me a while to get used to them) the biggest reason why I'm not enjoying it is because my Wii is not recognizing the disc most of the time. And twice when it did, and I went to run the game, it immediately "crashed" and restarted the Wii. I was only able to play it once so far and haven't gotten too far into the game.


LBTFan13

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How old is your Wii? That might play a factor in it, unless it is only this game that is giving you trouble. Also, check the disc itself and make sure it isn't scratched or anything. I had that happen with my XBOX once. I had just bought a game, I think it was Red Dead Redemption, and it kept crashing. I had bought it new, but I looked at the disc and it was already scratched up.


DarkHououmon

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I already checked the disc and cleaned it multiple times. The only other Wii disc I have that doesn't work as well is Super Smash Brothers Brawl, which is confusing considering it always worked just fine in the past. I'm not sure why the Wii would have a hard time recognizing it now, even though it doesn't even looked scratched.


LBTFan13

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The only time I can think of where the Wii wouldn't recognize the disc would be if the disc was put in backwards. I'm not saying that's what you are doing, but that's my experience. Otherwise, I would check your Wii out and see if there's anything wrong with it. There might be something internally messed up with it.

But I digress. Metroid Other M is an amazing game that unfortunately is not getting the praise it deserves. Sure, the controls are a bit awkward at first, but when you get used to them they're not that bad. Nintendo took a risk with developing this game with Team Ninja, and I think they did a great job with it.


Littlefoot1616

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I landed Other M Friday just gone and played for about 6hours. Gotta say I'm impressed with what's been done. The translation has been very good. Combat is fast and furious (as I would expect nothing less from Team Ninja), controls are responsive albeit a little awkward at times and the deep dive into a character that has been nearly completely mute up until now is both engaging and interesting. I like the concentration mode although it has taken a few unnecessary deaths to get used to (most pressing is dropping into Morph Ball mode instead of healing). It adds a real sense of tension to try and sneak in a quick heal whilst still in the heat of a fight. So far, my biggest gripe has been when you're force to a spot and have to hunt for a particular clue in order to advance. In a few cases, I've been stuck for nearly 10mins trying to find whatever it is I'm supposed to find before the game will continue only to realise an area I'd combed for the 20th time had only a 3x3 pixel range before the cursor would lock onto it (over exaggerating slightly about the pixel thing but you get the idea  :p)

So far, I've quite enjoyed the idea of Samus talking. I think the voice suits her (if anything maybe a little young but still). She definitely comes across as a much deeper, more troubled character than most thought. The brittle relationship between Samus and Adam gives them both real dimension and is portrayed excellently. Point to note, I'm not 100% sure Jennifer Hale IS the voice for Samus in Other M. I haven't been able to pin down a reliable source as to who the voices are in the game yet but I have my suspicions that it's NOT Jennifer Hale. No source seems to tie her to the role. A shame really coz I reckon she would've been perfect for the job.

Still, thoroughly enjoyable and definitely a keeper for my gaming library!  :D

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the biggest reason why I'm not enjoying it is because my Wii is not recognizing the disc most of the time. And twice when it did, and I went to run the game, it immediately "crashed" and restarted the Wii.

I've had that same problem too. I can't leave the disc in the machine, put it on standby and come back to it later. The Wii doesn't seem to recognise the disc if I leave it in. Even when I put the disc in, it normally crashes first, reboots and I have to try again. Not sure why it does that. I've never had an issue with the Wii before. All the other games work fine. Just Other M seems to upset it.  :unsure:


Flathead770

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Just got 100% items today and unlocked hard mode...yay? Im actually interested in playing hard mode though since the game gets pretty easy after you get the Screw Attack (like in all games  :lol ), bosses aside. The overall story was really cool and wouldn't have been possible without Samus talking. I wasn't to impressed with the ending of the game though. The plot development got me thinking of how awesome the ending will be, then it just...ends. But there is a hard mode so heres to hoping that theres some true last boss that will make the ending better.

The game also gives you a better reason why Ridley was even in Metroid Fusion as he was randomly frozen in that game. All the throwback bosses of older Metroid games are a cool inclusion as well.

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So far, my biggest gripe has been when you're force to a spot and have to hunt for a particular clue in order to advance. In a few cases, I've been stuck for nearly 10mins trying to find whatever it is I'm supposed to find before the game will continue only to realise an area I'd combed for the 20th time had only a 3x3 pixel range before the cursor would lock onto it (over exaggerating slightly about the pixel thing but you get the idea )
You wouldn't happen to be talking about finding that green blood stain on the green field would you? That took me forever to find, all the other ones weren't as bad. Though i liked doing this for the most part because of how much it adds to the suspense of the game.

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I've had that same problem too. I can't leave the disc in the machine, put it on standby and come back to it later. The Wii doesn't seem to recognise the disc if I leave it in. Even when I put the disc in, it normally crashes first, reboots and I have to try again. Not sure why it does that. I've never had an issue with the Wii before. All the other games work fine. Just Other M seems to upset it.
hmmm, ive never had that problem. So far the game froze once, but other than that, it works perfectly fine.


pokeplayer984

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My guess, DH, is that you got a bad disc.  The chances of getting one is about the same as winning the lottery.

I have beaten the game.  I'm going to need a freaking guide to collect all the items.  I played it through normally and ended up with a pitiful 38%. (Yeah, go ahead and laugh, I DON'T CARE!!)

And to all the fans complaining about how it destroys your views, here's my one thing to say...

BEFORE THIS GAME, YOU NEVER KNEW HER!!  SHUT UP!!

Seriously, until she was given a voice, as a human, we never knew her.

Anyways, this is a great game.  Epic even!  With a deep and dark story line.

I didn't learn the dodge technique until late in the game when I seriously needed it.  Up until then, it was all dumb luck against the fast enemies.

And no Power Bombs until you land in the Queen's stomach?  Really?  Wow!

A few regrets, but it's still a good game.  Not one that will make Game of the Year, but still good. :)

You did a good job, Team Ninja.  I'm quite impressed. :)


Littlefoot1616

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I finshed Other M a couple of weeks ago and going through to find "that special something" or whatever it is.

Aside from that, I heard that apparently Other M has a crippling data flaw. When you fight the flying insectoid thingy for the third time and finally beat it in Sector 3, the door you are supposed to advance through remains locked if you run BACK to the previous save room and save the game before moving on. Apparently there is a 50/50 chance that the door to advance through will remain locked and there is no way to get around it. Worse of all, if you've saved you're DOUBLY screwed because now the game is in complete lockdown and you can't move forward and the only thing to do is start over.

By the sounds of things, it doesn't sound like this has happened to anyone on here but thought I'd spread the word just in case it does happen. There's no real explanation for this glitch but plenty of rumours floating around. Here's a vid from Youtube pointing out the problem:

Youtube: Metroid Other M Game Breaking Glitch


TheNumberOneShmuck

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SPOILERS IN THIS RANT

Special note: I wrote this rant in two parts (not equally long halves, though) First part was written in the early morning, and the second was written the following day. I was pretty sleepy during the writing of the first part, so it probably won't hold up as well as the second part.

Alright, it's time I throw my two cents into this thing, because I have a lot to say. A LOT. It's gonna be a seriously long read, so if you feel up to it, grab some coffee or something. And please, if you're going to respond, make sure you've read the whole thing, as some points may be further re-enforced later on this rant of mine, (and, again, the second part is probably stronger, so if you have a rebuttal for something early on, keep reading and make sure a later point doesn't trounce that rebuttal)

And before I really get started, let me just say that every discussion I've seen concerning this game inevitably had the defenders turning to the haters and making an accusation that the haters just want Samus to be a cold, unfeeling, emotionless, silent robot killer, with no personality of any kind. It's a frustrating thing to see, because the haters almost never even insinuate that that's what they want in Metroid, ever. In fact, many times, they've already made it clear that they don't want that by the time the defenders get desperate. It's a strawman tactic, and it's something that I'm going to ask everyone in this topic not fall into as you read this topic.

First of all, I have to tell you that some of the people in this topic are, simply put, WRONG. I'm talking about the people who said that "We didn't know Samus before this". WRONG. I'm sorry, but did everyone just forget about METROID FUSION?! That angers me. Y'know why? Because everyone here's talking about how Other M's such a great game, and yet you're all conveniently ignoring Fusion, or as I call it, Other M: Good Edition. As far as I'm concerned, it does everything better than Other M, besides graphical and audio quality (technical quality; even with regards to art direction and soundtrack, I found Fusion to be superior). It does Samus's monologues and personality better (and I'll get into that more later on) It features a more compelling portrayal of Adam Malkovich (and that's all through Samus's nostalgia trips and a ship A.I. that doesn't really start acting like Adam until the very end) It tells a Galactic Federation Metroid cloning conspiracy story better.

Since I don't know really where else to go, I'll just jump right into the infamous Ridley scene. Ridley appears, Samus freezes. She freezes so badly, that she actually starts to lose control of her suit. Sorry, but NO. Let me tell you why no. Because she's defeated Ridley before. She defeated Ridley in Metroid/Zero Mission. She defeated Meta Ridley in Prime. She beat him again in Corruption, then killed Omega Ridley later on in that same game. Then she defeated Ridley in Super Metroid. She never, EVER froze in ANY of the other encounters. Oh, and don't give me anything about how this time, it's because she thought he was dead. Though it isn't absolutely certain, Ridley probably died most of the other encounters. Note that I said that Samus killed Omega Ridley. That one was for certain. Because he EXPLODED. That Ridley died without question. But what about the other times? I'd have to say that Ridley dies in Metroid/ZM and Super. It seems like Ridley and Kraid's (and in Super, Phantoon and Draygon's) life forces are tied directly to the entrance to Tourian, since it opens only after you defeat them (and I seem to remember them exploding in those games as well) There's not much reason to assume they aren't dead, and plenty to assume they are.

So why is it that Samus only now suffers from PTSD when Ridley shows up? Even if you assume that Meta Ridley survived in Prime (after the Chozo statues laser him over a cliff) and Corruption (he falls down a reactor core shaft) and that Samus somehow KNOWS he survived, that still leaves him reappearing in Prime and Super without Samus freezing up. The idea that Samus would freeze up at all, even due to PTSD, is irritating, but I think I'll save that for the another paragraph.

Next item: Samus is obsessively submissive, to the point of reckless stupidity in this game. Yes, I'm going there. And I have good reason. Back to Fusion for a brief moment, one thing that Samus mentions in that game is that she doesn't like taking orders, and she's only served under Adam before this (that's important to remember, because if his command was all it took to make her decide that, and she LIKED him, then it means him being in command on the Bottle Ship, as opposed to any other person, doesn't change a thing when considering the following) Now, she does work with the Galactic Federation at points in the series, but she's a bounty hunter, so it can be assumed that they're paying her for it. Plus, it seems like they're not particularly restrictive with their assignments. Go here, secure this, talk to that person for information on those, and be sure to destroy that on your way out. Not much of "don't use weapon X" or "try not to step on creature Y", or anything else that might be expected were she actually serving in the GF officially.

Now, in Other M, she isn't officially working under Adam. She's not under any orders to do anything. And yet, she voluntarily de-activates almost every single piece of tech in her suit until each one is authorized, and agrees to follow his command. Now, I want you to really think about this. In Fusion, Samus describes her relationship with Adam as one of mutual respect. There's nothing to indicate that she'd be obsessed with the guy. And yet, here she is, agreeing to follow his every order - even though she doesn't like taking orders and doesn't have to - and de-activating everthing. Including her ARMOR UPGRADES. She literally endangers her own life by volunteering to take orders, which she doesn't like to, and stubbornly not activating gear which DOES NOTHING BUT PROTECT HER FROM HARM, all because the guy she was serving under when she decided she didn't like taking orders tells hasn't specifically told her to protect herself yet. It's literally a life-threatening stroke of stupidity which goes against her established character traits. There is EVERYTHING wrong with it. And I've seen this poorly defended with "it's just a way to weave the item collection into the narrative". That's no excuse. At all. In fact, it justifies the focus it's gotten. They wanted it tied into the narrative? Fine. Now they have to deal with the consequences of doing so. It's open to criticism for being poorly handled now, just the same Prime's reason for Samus losing her powers caught crap. "An explosion in a hallway flung her against a wall, and that caused her suit's features to malfunction? Then why didn't it malfunction during that fight with the aerotroopers, where you got hit with, like, 20 missiles?" Don't want the criticism? Then do it right.. That's why criticism exists, to make sure you know what to do (or, at least, what NOT to do) next time.

Another thing is that Adam comes across as a jerkass because of this. Like, why wouldn't he immediately check all of Samus's suit upgrades, and choose which ones were authorized, and which weren't? And c'mon, I get why he wouldn't authorize Super Missiles, Power Bombs, the Plasma Beam, and the Screw attack. Those are very dangerous weapons, and should only be used when absolutely called for. Even the lesser weapons are still pretty dangerous, and maybe Adam didn't feel like he could really trust Samus with them at first (and even if that was the case, it clearly became apparent to him at some point that she was trustworthy, he could have done it then; and even if she wasn't, not authorizing stuff would become irrelevant in a scenario where she goes rogue, because she's still ultimately in control of which upgrades are active, giving Adam even less reason to withhold authorization of most of her equipment)

But really, why didn't he just immediately authorize the Varia Suit, Gravity Suit, and Space Jump? After all, those functions do exactly the following, in order: adds extra protection and shields the user from extreme temperatures and acid; adds even more protection, and allows free movement underwater and in areas with non-Earth-standard gravity; allows for greater mobility by way of a near-infinite amount of midair jumps. That's it. There's no apparent risk factor involved with allowing the use of those upgrades, so Adam just looks like an ass for making her less able to defend herself and move around in battle. In fact, why did Samus volunteer Adam authority on those upgrades alongside her weapons in the first place? Weapons are one thing, but why the armor and mobility upgrades? It makes even less sense as we go along here.

Then there's probably the shining example of cutscene convenience making Samus a delicate little flower: Adam shooting Samus in the back as she approaches Sector 0. One shot. Just the one. And apparently, in spite of the tremendous ass-kickings Samus is able to bear througout the series, and still come back swingin', this one shot hits her so hard that she is knocked unconcious, and when she comes too, she's so weakened that she can't re-activate her suit, or walk without stumbling around. Oh, and this is also the scene where Adam sacrifices himself by going into Sector 0 and wreaking enough havoc to cause the area to detach and self-destruct with him in it. Let me ask... did this guy forget to bring explosives of any kind? I remember at the beginning, they couldn't open the locked door, and said they didn't want to use explosives because the uncontained blast might cause unwanted damage to the ship around them. Well, that's exactly what he wants in this situation. Was he not carrying any? Did he give them all to Maurice or something? Did he have some, but ran out as he was exploring the ship? Speaking of ships, was it not possible to take the GF ship or ask Samus to use her gunship and go on a bombing run? Did the damage have to be internal to cause Sector 0 to detach? Christ, the story does so much damage to these characters' intelligence and integrity, is it really that difficult to see how everyone could be so upset over it? It's not a good thing when even a moment of thought can devalue a character's scarifice so much.

One seemingly minor, yet still relevant thing, is Adam calling Samus "Lady". In Fusion, Samus recalls that Adam would call her "Lady", and that if it were anyone else, she'd have found it condescending, but Adam knew how to say it in such a way that it sounded dignified. That says something about Samus and Adam, and their relationship. In Other M, however, Samus comments that she didn't mind Adam saying "Any objections, lady?" at the end of each mission briefing, because "I was glad he went with something delicate." UGH. So we've gone from dignified to delicate. That reflects so poorly on the both of them, and yet people STILL ignore how much better Fusion told its story and fleshed out its characters. Infuriating.

Okay, now with regards to everything about Samus's perceived vulnerability, be it emotional, mental, or physical, let me just remind you of Samus's past. This is a past where she has defeated or killed Ridley at least 6 different times (Ridley in Metroid/Zero mission, Mecha Ridley at the end of ZM, Meta Ridley in Prime, Meta Ridley in Corruption, Omega Ridley in Corruption, Ridley in Super) This is a past where she defeated Metroid Prime, then defeated it again and again as Dark Samus. This is a past where she brought down Kraid and Mother Brain on two seperate occasions each. Where she killed Phantoon and Draygon. The Emporer Ing. The Omega Pirate. Quadraxis. Countless hordes of Space Pirates, even on their own acid rain-drenched planet. Numerous rival bounty hunters. Omega Metroids. A Metroid Queen. After all that, for anything to strike such an insane level of fear in her (the amount is critical here, don't ignore it) as Ridley did, and for one single shot from a GF weapon to knock her out and temporarily render her completely defenseless even after she comes to is such a departure from everything we've seen in the past, such a betrayal of who she's been ESTABLISHED as (not just from fan perception, this is actual portayal we're talking about here) that I'm left wondering why they didn't just alter the story so that this was one of Samus's first missions after departing from the GF. That would have made it the first time she encountered Ridley after he killed her family, making the PTSD thing infinitely more believable. It would have eliminated the stupid authorization gimmick, sparing her from looking stupid and sparing Adam from looking like an ass. It would have maybe even made it a little bit plausible for Adam to do the kind of damage he did with that shot, if she wasn't using her power suit to its fullest potential, or didn't have access to the Varia and Gravity armor upgrades. Or, hell, reboot the series. Anything. But don't even try telling me that this is the same Samus. There's FAR too big a contrast between Other M's Samus and the Samus from the ENTIRE REST OF THE SERIES to swallow all of this at once.

But this past isn't just one of her exploits in the games. This is one where it becomes apparent that she can't be judged in many respects by the same standards as typical humans. This is where the PTSD thing loses power. This is where Samus's completely voluntary submission of authority to Adam with regards to her Varia and Gravity suits and to her Space jump goes from dumb to absurd. This is where I point out the fact that Samus was RAISED TO BE A WARRIOR SINCE CHILDHOOD BY THE CHOZO. She was even infused with their DNA in order to become tougher, at the tender age of 3. She also served in the GF military after her Chozo training ended. She's a space warrior. She IS an intergalactic badass. She is athletic, efficient in battle, and has access to to an amazing power suit. This is not down to fan perception. These are cold, hard facts about her. Taking all of that into account, it becomes fair to expect Samus to be tougher, more capable, and more mentally stable than a real-world human soldier. The PTSD excuse might make sense, but not nearly as much when you consider all the mental toughening Samus no doubt went through during her life with the Chozo and serving in the GF military.

And this is right about the point that the Metroid manga comes up. Alright, let's play. So, Samus freezes upon encountering Ridley for the first time since he and the Space Pirates attacked and her parents died. In fact, posttraumatic stress disorder is specifically mentioned here by one of the onlookers. So, the manga is fair game here, right? Okay, so let's talk further about what canonizing the manga means for Other M. First, right back to Ridley. Samus freezes during that first encounter, and he beats the crap out of her. What happens the next time they meet? Why, that would be the re-telling of the events in Metroid/Zero Mission. Ridley appears, and Samus does indeed hesitate in apparent fear. However, two things stand out at this point. First, she's nowhere near as frightened as the first time (the first time, she loses her head and begs to be shot dead before Ridley can tear her to pieces; the second time, she basically stares him down for a moment, feeling intimidated) second, she snaps out of it in only a few seconds. This supports my belief that Samus is mentally and emotionally tougher than Other M gives her credit for. Now, some have said that PTSD is not something that you can just "get over". This might be true for a human in the real world, but as I've said, Samus is above and beyond that. She's grown mentally tougher since the previous encounter with Ridley. Not only CAN she get over PTSD, but she DID. It's in the manga. Her experience in the face of danger allows her to mature constantly, to the point where even her mental troubles are diminished.

This second encounter with Ridley also brings me back to the argument of Samus being more afraid of the fact that Ridley seemingly returned from the dead than Ridley himself. Well, guess what happens in this scene? Samus kills Ridley. Yeah, that thing where I said that Ridley probably died in Metroid/ZM? Yeah, the manga says he absolutely did. What does that mean? Well, it means that Meta Ridley's appearance in Prime was the first time that Ridley appeared to come back from the dead. This also means that his appearance in Super Metroid, after Omega Ridley was killed in Corruption, is at the very least the second time that Ridley seemed to come back from the dead (and remember, that's assuming that Samus knew that Meta Ridley survived the Chozo statues in Prime and the plunge down the reactor core shaft in Corruption). That also means, of course, that Ridley's appearence in Other M was at least the third time Samus got the impression that he came back from the dead. The third time. And if Samus made such improvements when it came to just Ridley himself after only one real PTSD freakout, then there's no reason to doubt that she could get over her fear of his apparent ability to resurrect constantly after it happened twice already, and she quickly took care of him both times. At the very least, she wouldn't have reacted NEARLY as badly as Other M wants us to believe. Regretting bringing the manga into this yet?

Because we're not done. There's also the matter of Adam Malkovich. Specifically, the fact that Adam and Samus are shown interacting after Samus has left the GF and become a bounty hunter. There's no bad blood here. There's nothing to indicate that the cold reception at the beginning of Other M was caused by anything other than his desire to find out whether the GF went through with the Metroid cloning program, and if so, sabotage it and destroy all traces of it, without Samus finding out. In fact, you know that scene where Adam refuses to help save his brother from a dangerous situation, because it would endanger the lives of everyone around him if they did anything other than retreat from the imminent explosion? Well, manga Adam seems to go against Other M Adam during the events of Metroid/ZM. They know Samus has gone to Zebes alone to take care of the Space Pirates, and a fleet under Adam's command is engaged in battle with some pirates elsewhere. The pirates, in spite of having the upper hand, prepare to warp back to Zebes. Adam realizes that this spells big trouble for Samus, and orders his fleet to go after them. His navigator informs him that this would be a monumental challenge after the damage they've taken, and Adam tells him he doesn't want to hear it, and thinks to himself "Samus... I won't let you die!" So the same Adam who let his brother die so as to not risk the lives of those around him also ordered those around him later to risk their lives so that Samus wouldn't die? And then this same guy, who was last seen on good terms with Samus, didn't immediately authorize the use of her Varia and Gravity suits, Space Jump, Grapple Beam, and basic weapons like regular Morph Bombs, Missiles, and the Ice Beam? Yeah, okay. Sure. I'm guessing those of you who didn't support involving the manga in this are relieved it's not being used against you so well. Those of you who did... well, I can't imagine you being too happy about this.

In summary: Samus is out-of-character, obsessed with Adam in spite of never indicating such a thing in previous works, she makes stupid decisions, the cutscenes have no problem making her weak for the sake of convenience, Adam is an ass, Adam is an idiot, Adam is just as out-of-character here as Samus is, Adam's noble sacrifice loses a lot of dramatic power when thought about at all, the PTSD theory doesn't hold as much water as you'd like it to, and the manga might very well be Other M's worst enemy, rather than its best friend.

Now, what do I think about Samus being given a more definite character in the Metroid series? I think that would be great. If they did it right. The point of this is that Other M really went for a story, failed at it, and now the creators have to face the criticisms of the fans. Once again, I have to mention Fusion. Fusion featured Samus monologuing too, but she wasn't nearly as wordy as the motormouth in Other M, nor is she as redundant (Other M Samus is constantly talking about things we already know, be it memories of previous games, or plot details that have already been made apparent) She also gets the character development that people say she hasn't gotten yet (again, an infuriating thing to say when such a great game as Fusion exists) and does it in a way that gives her emotions, details her relationship with Adam, gives insight into her personality, and shows that she's not a robot, all without destroying her established image of being the most badass female in all of gaming. Other M Samus and robot Samus are opposite extremes, and I don't really like the idea of either one. Fusion Samus is neither, and the relative shortness and linearity of the game, compared to other Metroids, can be forgiven because it does the story and the character of Samus well.

So please, once again, nothing about wanting a robot. I don't want a robot. I just also don't want Other M's Samus. They both suck. The first Metroid is allowed to get away with it, due to hardware limitations. And from then on, even as early as Metroid II, we're given at least glimpses of character, and even possibly of vulnerability. And that'something else. Apart from not wanting Samus to be a robot, I don't need her to be completely invincible. Let me give two examples from the Metroid Prime Trilogy that I liked. At the end of Prime, Samus removes her helmet observes the wreckage of the ancient Chozo Temple. Now, as she was raised by the Chozo, it's not difficult to see a look on Samus's face indicating that she thinks what a pity it is, to see the ancient remains of the once-great Chozo people's efforts, crumbled and burning. An indication that she appreciates Chozo architecture, that she harbors a nostalgic fondness for their culture. Now, that is just how I interpreted it, but that's kinda the point. It's an indication of how I see Samus, an indication that I'm not coming from a shallow perspective with my complaints about Other M.

Another moment is from Corruption, this one about how I don't have a problem with Samus still being afraid. I just don't like how far the Ridley scene in Other M went with that fear. In Corruption, Samus enters the Pirate homeworld's Leviathan Seed, to destroy it. When she enters the core, Omega Ridley swoops overhead, then lands. He stomps towards her, Samus backing up as he approaches, then Ridley tries to bite her. Samus leaps out of the way, going into Morph Ball mode, circles around Ridley, unmorphs, then aims her arm cannon at him, and the two stare each other down for a moment, Ridley roaring menacingly, before the fight begins. Now, maybe it's just me, but I saw that backing up, and the staredown after the unmorph, those moments of hesitation, of non-aggression, as Samus showing some fear. And not only did I not mind, but I found it made sense. After all, this is Omega Ridley we're talking about. It's not just Ridley, it's Ridley with his Meta-Ridley cybernetic enhancements, made even more dangerous by a healthy dose of Phazon radiation. This is pretty blatantly the most dangerous incarnation of Ridley we've ever seen, and even regular Ridley is pretty badass. And really, it's easy to see in-canon Ridley/Samus confrontations always bringing Samus close to death in one way or another. Like I said, it's the level of fear that Samus experiences in Other M that makes me shake my head. If they had toned it down (and really, I can't see any reason why they didn't; if they wanted Anthony to get knocked over the edge of the platform that badly, the could have had Ridley ambush them or something) then I wouldn't have minded. Even after Super Metroid, and my belief that Samus is mentally tougher than real-world humans, I could still buy her being at least a little afraid of Ridley if she explained that she had almost died every time they squared off. But there's none of that, and she experiences a freakout the likes of which we've only seen before when she was much younger in the manga (and I've already explained why bringing the manga in only does Other M further disservice)

Speaking of Anthony, he's something I actually liked out of the game. Heroic, cool ("You got no style!") has a giant gun, and is probably the only voice actor I actually liked. In fact, let me talk about other things I liked, just to take a break from complaining. I liked the dodge and finisher system. Very flashy, and added some cool to in-game Samus. I'm also impressed that the NES-style Wiimote setup worked as well as it did, although I still think that a Wiimote/Nunchuck setup would have worked better. The graphics, of course, are great for the Wii, and the effects, especially when it comes to the holographic illusion that are the creature habitats of the space stations, and what happens when you mess with it (shooting the backdrops, graphical glitches in the hologram, etc.) are very pretty. I like that Ridley's empty husk after the Queen attacks him sets up his appearance in Fusion, nice detail, that. I also liked how frequent boss battles were. Kept the action going nicely. Phantoon was an especially excellent and memorable fight. I didn't mind the concentration move, either. Overall, the game really is fun, although not close to the lofty standards set by Super and the Prime Trilogy. Fusion and Zero Mission were also better. Still, this one was fun enough that, although I had big issues with the story and characterization, I still enjoyed the actual game, and am glad I got it. On a scale of 1-10, 5 being average, my enjoyment rating is a 7.8. It's just a sad thought that the game with the most story, character, cutscenes, and talking, is also the one where I pay attention to the gameplay over everything else the most (except the original Metroid)

I'm not quite done with the game just yet though, I have a few more things to say. Next subject is the Deleter. Specifically, the fact that, not only is it never really resolved, but it's basically just dropped completely. Like they forget about it. Now, there are a couple of clues to tell you who it was (as if it wasn't immediately obvious just from looking at the squad members' faces and figuring out that way) but it's just the fact that the whole subplot just whimpers and dies in a corner while you're not looking. It also brings to mind the fact that Adam and Anthony are the only squad members who get any character development. Feels like kind of a waste, to have all these guys, and not even try to do anything with most of them besides have them there so that the one guy, who also gets no characterization besides being the assasin (and you can't attach that to him without knowing which one it is, although that's easy enough to do) can kill them all (again, for a subplot that eventually fades away quietly)

Then there's the voice acting. Actually, most of the voice acting was middle-of-the-road and forgettable, with two exceptions, one better and one worse. The one I actually liked, as I said, is Anthony. He delivers his lines well, and I came to like him enough to hope that he shows up in a future game. The one I didn't like was Samus. Let me say right now how amusingly sad it is that the most emotional Samus in the series (again, emotional to a fault) is also far more robotic sounding than anyone expected her to be. Just one more thing that puts a damper on the accusation of Other M's haters wanting a robot, when one of the things they complain about is Samus sounding like a robot. By the way, Jessica Martin was Samus's VA in Other M, not Jennifer Hale.

Oh, and mentioning the VA, I HAVE to mention the dialogue. Many people like to complain about the VA, but they ignore the fact that, even if they had the best voice actors in the world at the top of their game, the dialogue and monologues are so unnaturally written that it would still suck. Robot Samus aside, "The word he so obviously chose, 'outsider', pierced my heart." is a line which could never NOT sound stupid and pretentious, ever. Yech.

Well, I think I've finally run out of steam. In closing, let me just say that I complain to make known all the issues with the game, and how it relates to the rest of the series, specifically so that more effort is put into the story and characterization in future Metroid games. Constructive criticism is something that should never be unwelcome, and I spent plenty of time and effort making sure that all of my points were valid, well-explained, and constructive. I don't seek to get anyone hating the game, but I do seek to make it known that it has very real issues which are worth analyzing and  worth addressing.


LBTFan13

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With all due respect TheNumberOneSchmuck, that first paragraph in your rant was exceptionally rude. Yes, I understand that you have gripes about the game and that you don't agree with some of our opinions, but that gives you no excuse to attack all of us like that? If you knew you couldn't post without acting that way, then you shouldn't have posted at all. I know this sounds rude, and I sincerely apologize for it, but I couldn't read your rant and take it seriously because all it came off to me was bitching (and please excuse my language). Because of that attack in the first paragraph, I could not and did not focus on what you had to say.

Now there are plenty of things in your rant that I do not agree with, but at the moment I do not have the time to post it, and I also want to avoid the possibility of an argument spiraling out of control. The point is that we are all entitled to our own opinions. To attack everybody in this topic because you don't agree with what we had to say is completely and entirely wrong and unfair.


TheNumberOneShmuck

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Quote from: LBTFan13,Sep 27 2010 on  05:51 AM
With all due respect TheNumberOneSchmuck, that first paragraph in your rant was exceptionally rude.
I know. That's why I said that it was rude.

Quote
Yes, I understand that you have gripes about the game and that you don't agree with some of our opinions, but that gives you no excuse to attack all of us like that? If you knew you couldn't post without acting that way, then you shouldn't have posted at all.
Meh. I just really felt the need to get that out there. As I said, I just felt like it would be dishonest, really a betrayal of myself, if I didn't throw it out there. By the way, no, that wasn't enough of a reason not to post my monstrous rant. It's just enough of a reason I should be considered an unpleasant goon, to be treated poorly and laughed at.

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I know this sounds rude, and I sincerely apologize for it
I'd be a monumental hypocrite if I were to call you out for that. No worries.

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but I couldn't read your rant and take it seriously because all it came off to me was bitching (and please excuse my language)
So go back and try reading it again (if you can manage without falling asleep in the middle... friggin' endless babble if mine...) and disregard it as me letting off steam. I harbor no ill feeling towards you or anyone else on this good forum. 'Cept that TheNumberOneShmuck guy. He's a real douche. He should be banned for being such a raging toolbox and contributing nothing of value, that worthless boob.

...

...Wait.

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Because of that attack in the first paragraph, I could not and did not focus on what you had to say.
Give it another shot. I do apologize for the "SHUT UP" thing. Like I said at the beginning of the rant, I wrote the first third or so early in the morning (as in, like, 4am) so I was probably cranky at the time. Don't take it personally, I was just getting it off of my chest.

Honestly, I did put a lot of time and effort into that rant, and  I think one of the worst things that could happen is for the whole thing to just be disregarded as tripe, without being really read.

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Now there are plenty of things in your rant that I do not agree with, but at the moment I do not have the time to post it
Like I said in the intro to that rant, I'd rather you not respond at all unless you take the time to read the whole thing, just in case something later on addresses your rebuttals. It's a tall task, to be sure, but still.

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and I also want to avoid the possibility of an argument spiraling out of control.
You don't have to worry about that with my. Contrary to what my little outburst at the very beginning may have lead you to believe, I actually really like thought-out, level-headed, back-and-forth debates. As long as my points aren't simply waved off without proper justification. That's annoying. But if that happens, I just end the debate and go away before I really go off.

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The point is that we are all entitled to our own opinions. To attack everybody in this topic because you don't agree with what we had to say is completely and entirely wrong and unfair.
Actually, I have to point something out here. I wasn't attacking anyone's opinion. I was angry because people - and not just on TGoF, I'm talking all over the internet - were saying that none of the Metroid games developed Samus's character before Other M, which is factually incorrect. I don't begrudge anyone for their opinions, but such a fallacy constantly being shoved in my face, combined with my previously mention lack of sleep, combined to create that little ugly moment. And it was restricted to the beginning. The rest is well thought-out, if I do say so myself, and pure analysis of the game. Unless I typed something else that I don't remember during my sleep-deprived ramblings in the first half.


TheNumberOneShmuck

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I've edited that part of my rant to be less crappy, by the way. I apologize if I put anyone off with that.

Now read my unreasonably monolithic rant! >:|


DarkHououmon

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While I still haven't played more of the game (I'm waiting for it to arrive from GameFly) there are some complaints I've heard that I would like to counter based on what I know of the Metroid franchise. I've read the manga. I've played all Metroid games except Metroid Prime Hunters and Metroid Prime Pinball, and of the games I've played, the only one I haven't beaten yet is of course Metroid: Other M. So yes I know what I'm talking about.


Okay here's each complaint and my rebuttal for each of them.


1. Why does Samus need to take orders when she isn't with the Galactic Federation?

A: Well what about Metroid Prime 3? As I recall, Samus was a bounty hunter in this game, and as the first game showed, she was acting on her own, not taking orders from the GF. However in Metroid Prime 3, taking place after both 1 and 2 obviously, we see her interact with the GF and take orders from them.

Metroid Prime 3 showed us that Samus is capable of working with others and taking orders from the GF despite being a bounty hunter and usually going off on her own. Metroid: Other M cements this fact even more. While it is true Samus usually does her own thing, she is not incapable of taking orders if she feels it's beneficial for the mission. Her taking orders from Adam does not make her any less of a bounty hunter than she is.

I should also point out Metroid Fusion. This takes place at the end of the Metroid timeline (currently) and again Samus is still a bounty hunter. But throughout the entire game, she is taking orders from the GF, a GF computer to be exact. She is told where to go and when, and when she gets her weapons depends on what the GF wants usually, similar to how Samus's weapon activation is dependent on a GF officer, Adam. And also, keep in mind the computer was technically Adam, or at least his mind. So it's not like gamers had never experienced a game where Samus took orders from Adam. Sure she was more defiant in Metroid Fusion, but keep in mind she was talking with a computer, not another human.

2. Why is Samus whiny?

A: While I have not played the entire game myself, the parts I did play, Samus never once came across as "whiny". I tried asking a friend of mine who has beaten the game himself and he couldn't understand what people were talking about either. If people mean she's just too talkative, then yes I agree. I'm not really that bothered she talks a lot in Metroid: Other M, but I can see where that can get annoying. Still, I find the talkative scenes to be interesting because it shows more of Samus's past and personality.

3. Samus worships the ground Adam walks on.

A: Not really, based on what I've seen of the game. Samus doesn't worship Adam nor did she ever act that way from what I've seen in the game, as well as the manga where Adam also appeared, and she never came across that way to me in Metroid Fusion.

Instead, she respects him. From what I recall, Adam treated Samus as a soldier and valued her opinion, and never treated her differently because she was a woman, and because of this Samus respects him. As she mentions in Other M, she regards him as a father figure. This doesn't mean she worships him, however. To me, all it means is that she, in a way, likes him and respects what he has to say. I would even say she may have been a little close to Adam since his comment on her being an outsider bothered her.

However despite her respect for him, this does not mean she is always willing to go along with what he says. In the manga, as I remember, she goes against his wishes and heads to Zebes I believe. She even goes as far as turn her cannon arm on him as if she's going to shoot him, and tells him he isn't going to stop her. Adam does give in and allows her to leave. This scene may have strengthened what respect she had for him even more; I believe she was a little surprised he let her go.

4. Samus breaks down at the sight of enemies.

A: Just because she is a space bounty hunter doesn't mean she doesn't have emotions and it doesn't mean she doesn't break down every once in a while. She had lost her parents when she was only a few years old because of Ridley, nearly got killed because of Ridley, watched Zebes, the planet she grew up on, blow up, she watched a Chozo settlement blow up, she was nearly killed by Mother Brain, narrowly escaped being blown up herself, watched a baby sacrifice itself for her, fought against Dark Samus, narrowly escaped Dark Aether, among anything else I may have forgotten. She has been through quite a lot and I feel she has every right to break down once in a while.

But from what I've been told from a friend who has beaten the game, the only time Samus actually does react that way to any enemy in Other M is Ridley, and, thinking about it, it makes perfect sense.

First off, this isn't the first time she did this around Ridley. She did it one time before, in the manga. When she first encountered him again after so many years (first time she encountered him as a young adult), she was frightened and was easily defeated by Ridley. She didn't even fight back. This was because she saw him as her family's murderer and remembered what happened the last time she encountered him. In Other M, I believe this is only part of the reason she acted like that. Yes, in the clip I watched, she did "regress into a child", which to me signaled she remembered what Ridley did to her in the past, and perhaps the scenery reminded her of how things were when Ridley first showed up years ago.

The other thing I want to point out is what happened just prior to this game. Samus had defeated Ridley while on Zebes and, from what I can make out, he fell into lava and got burned up. While I believe the same thing happened in Metroid and Metroid: Zero Mission, there is one thing that makes this instance different than the others. In the others, only one section of the planet was destroyed. But at the end of Super Metroid, the entire planet was blown up and there was no signs that anyone other than Samus and the couple of animals escaped alive. So when Samus sees Ridley again in Other M, she is of course going to be shocked that he's still alive, as she would have believed he was dead for good.

I feel that is a reasonable reaction for anyone who had, for likely years, believed someone (such as an enemy) was dead, believed there was no way they could have survived, only for that enemy to suddenly appear later on.

5. Why can't Samus activate her weapons when she wants to?

A: In the other Metroid games, Samus was the only person in the area. In Metroid Prime 3, in the areas where there were people, it was built out of really strong material that would have prevented too much damage. Samus is not the type of person who will attack unprovoked, and she definitely isn't interested in harming a member of her own species either. In the other games, Samus is alone and so she doesn't need to worry about harming another person. In Metroid Prime 3, due to the strength of the metal the base was made out of, she had less of a chance of accidentally hurting another person.

But things are a bit different in Metroid: Other M. Here, in order to survive, she works with a group of GF soldiers. She knows they are on board and, as Adam pointed out, her power bombs could kill them. Samus does not want to risk causing tension among the people she's with or cause any trouble (such as blowing up something she should not have or, worse, killing someone) and thus why she only uses a type of weapon when Adam gives the okay.




That's all I have to say for now. When I finally get to play Metroid: Other M and beat it, if, by any chance, I change my mind about something, I'll make a post about it.


pokeplayer984

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Thank you, DH!  Thank you!  You said pretty much everything I was going to say.

Of course, I'm someone who has actually played the game and trust me, it'll only reinforce your views.

I like to think of the narrative as a sort of diary.  The past tense way of telling everything only enforces the belief.

On a side note though, I have to agree that the game is short and feels like a bit of a rip-off on the price side, but I'll just give it the benefit of the doubt because it's just so good.  It only took me so long to beat it due to time restraints of how much time I had to play it and how I had to get used to the new dodge mechanic.  If I didn't have these problems, I'd probably have it done in about a day.  Yeah, definitely on the short side.

Oh, and BTW, to the people still ranting how her personality is a bad thing, it made her a 3-dimensional character, and THAT is NEVER a bad thing.

Thank you.  Now if you don't mind, I need to get back to my Gameboy Let's Play. -_-


TheNumberOneShmuck

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I'm sorry, DarkHououmon, but I have to ask,.. did you read my rant? Because it addresses and rebuts your points. It's a long one, but I'd rather you not just ignore it like that. I put a lot of thought and time into it, and I do take it personally when you post without regarding it, which your post indicates. Especially the manga. One of the biggest things in my rant was how much more damage the manga does to Other M than it does good.

Please read it.


Truttle

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I’ve read your entire rant, all of it. So now I’m going to share my rebuttal. I’ll admit that everyone makes mistakes, even videogame companies. So I’m not going to debate that Other M is perfection. But I will argue against a few opinions you stated.

First of all, I want to state that your opinions, while reasonable and understandable, are really only your opinion. So it’s really just conjecture that you state. I’m sure you won’t deny that and I’m not saying that you are. It’s just a bit much that your rant came off as that. You made many claims and stated them as if they were law and irrefutable.

First, I’ll discuss the issue of her reaction to seeing Ridley. You state that her reaction was unprecedented because she has faced him before on numerous occasions and in numerous forms and never flinched. Well, first off, we all know that the canon of the manga wasn’t inserted until much later. And second you have to understand that the creators only had so much they could work with. Almost all metroid games are 2D games with a small amount of frames to work with. I’m pretty sure the creators didn’t feel like wasting their time with having Samus show large amounts of reactions and stances. Now you’ll probably debate that they could have shown that in Prime, and Echoes and that they did show her react in corruption and in Fusion. Well if you mean that little eye bulge when she finds out that Adam is in the computer well, that’s pretty much all we get. I don’t think the creators want to show a second eye bulge when she meets Ridley or anything else. You can just chock that up to “They didn’t feel like it” they probably felt it was pointless an unnecessary as to save more time on gameplay. And as for Prime and Echoes, I blame it on the software limitations. It was designed for the Gamecube, we see very little from Samus as it’s entirely in first person, barely much of her face, and there are so many scan items, hell, she never even utters a word and the endings are so bland that I’m pretty sure that’s all they could squeeze into it. Now in corruption maybe it’s a little different. They have much more software to work with since it’s now on the Wii. They offered many interactable features to let the player feel more like they’re in Samus’s boots. You can push and pull levers, and even navigate your ship with motions using the wiimote. So for the first time, we see her reaction to seeing Ridley, as you stated, she does get scared, just because her duration of fear is different, it doesn’t matter, she can get scared. I know it’s not quite enough to support my argument, but as long as it’s with Ridley and she gets scared is all I can give. Now, onto other M. You stated that because of her “brief” service with the Galactic Federation and being raised by the Chozo should have molded her into a hardened killing machine. I don’t think so. The chozo are a technological race, and not fully warbound to always want to battle. They gave Samus chozo DNA that helped make her stronger and more athletic in order to merge the Power Suit to her. They saw a potential in her to be a savior. Besides, even if she had a lot of experience, even Rambo broke down and started crying at the end of the movie, so you can’t tell us that her PTSD can just go away. Besides, that didn’t stop her from finding her courage afterward and proceeding to kick Ridley’s butt with a fury.

Now let’s talk about her power suit. It seems that you’re under the assumption that it’s made out of some sort of impenetrable diamond hard substance. It’s been shown many times and even within the games such as the Prime series, that her suit is not a ceramic suit of armor, it’s not a robotic hollow suit that she can slip in and out of like clothes. It’s a biological organic exoskeleton. Fusion even states that it’s so integrated into her biological system that removing too much of it would be fatal. Her suit is flexible and even has joints. That’s why she’s been infected on several occasions. By Dark Samus and by the X. In fact, her suit itself is not what protects her from death, it’s some sort of unseen energy field that the suit produces, perhaps within the suit. That’s why you collect energy tanks in the game to extend the shield’s duration. The very fact that an enemy can bump into her and make her grunt with pain from the injury shows that she feels pain through the suit. I’m not talking about a lazer beam, or acid, but a mere bump! She feels the cold, and she feels the heat, it’s like a skin to her. So it’s completely understandable that when Ridley grabs her and is crushing her (You’ll notice that this is when her suit fades) that her suit starts to falter, her pain is causing her to lose her mental focus which must be deactivating the suit. We’ve seen multiple times that she removes the suit without so much as touching a button or speaking some sort of activation code. So I believe the suit is activated mentally. So when Adam shoots her spine, I think that’s enough of a shock to her system to also deactivate her suit, afterall, she falls unconscious. We’ve seen her suit fall apart even in Super Metroid so this shouldn’t be such a surprise.

Now about how Fusion is better at emotions than Other M. Seriously? This response will be pretty short. All we get is a momentary outburst of anger towards the computer and an eye bulge when she finds out the computer is Adam. The rest is all text. You can’t show much emotion through text.

Now onto the “Following orders” problem. On Adam’s part, I am under the assumption that Adam was the deleter. I know I have no way to prove this since the game never reveals it, but this is my guess, think about it for a second, the galactic federation wanted to preserve their biological weapons. The metroid’s that were genetically enhanced to resist being frozen. I believe since adam was secretly trying to destroy the metroids he had to stop anyone from preventing his mission. I think the other members he dispatched were part of that retrieval unit. Since the beginning, he knew his mission was suicide, the only way to disconnect section zero was from inside, there’s no way out after that. Knowing that Samus was the only one strong enough to save the universe, he made that sacrifice and chose her over himself. So I’m assuming that the reason Adam had restricted her suit’s features was to keep her from reaching the location, to slow her progress. Now as for her following his orders blindly. Besides the fact that she trusts him so strongly, how many times has she done something “Stupid” as you claim? Many times! She goes to planet SR388 to eradicate EVER SINGLE METROID except one!? “Hmm…this one’s cute! I’ll call it spot!” Her act was illegal as stated by the general at the end of Other M, plus the fact that it caused all kinds of hell in Super Metroid. And the fact that she fights herds of giant monsters, dives into pools of lava relying on the guess that her varia suit “MIGHT” protect her from the heat. (She doesn’t know until she tries. Who else would willingly do that?) Does that seem rational to you? You’re just going to have to get used to the idea that she followed orders because she wants to.


DarkHououmon

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Personally I find it hard to believe that the emotions in Metroid Fusion were better than in Metroid: Other M. Don't you mean "lack of emotion"? As Truttle pointed out, the only time she does show what can be interpreted as genuine emotion is during one scene (where she argues with the computer and shows shock). Other than that, it's simply her talking. That's not really emotion. It's just text. She was just explaining what was going on. That isn't the same as showing emotion.

Oh I forgot to point something else out. Judging from what I read in your post, NumberOne, I don't know if you truly understand what PTSD can do or understand who the Chozo are completely.

First off, PTSD is not easily gotten over. Just ask any soldier suffering from it. It can last for a very long time and still effect people even many years later. It's not like some scratch or minor wound like that. PTSD is the result of experiencing something extremely traumatic, and in Samus's case, that extremely traumatic event was the Space Pirate assault that killed her entire family and nearly getting killed by Ridley. I seriously doubt something that severe is going to be easily gotten over with training. Training would only make Samus physically stronger; it is not going to erase the painful memories. They're engraved in her mind.

And secondly, the Chozo are not some bloodthirsty race who were training Samus to be simply a machine for fighting. The Chozo embraced a balance between technology and harmony with nature. They valued knowledge, not power. They would not have taught Samus to be a mindless killing machine. They would have taught her to respect nature and to seek friends, not enemies. Under their guidance, Samus would turn not into a cold blooded killer but into a warrior with a soft heart. In the manga, as I recall, it is stated that the Chozo were training her to be the savior of the universe. Savior does not translate into "hardened killer".

I apologize if I offended anyone.