We Need to Talk

[Petrie.]

Recently all over the board there have been topics brought up that I really don't feel are really in the good spirit of our community.  Quite a few of these are in After Midnight, but not all of them.  Point is, there's a fine line between a topic meant for debate, and one created to simply rant or stir up support or anger.  I'm seeing less of the former, and more of the latter.  

I don't mind venting, but bringing it here and publicizing it for all to read not the best way to deal with the problem.  Eat your favorite food, listen to a soothing music album, find a movie from your childhood that you enjoy--anything the quelm anger, and the best part of it is, you can do it yourself.  While you may want to share your anger with us, a good number of us would rather see how you've corrected the issue and how you deal with social ills rather than complaining about them and how they need to be changed.  Change starts with you, the individual.

I'm not mad.  Just very annoyed with the direction I see the Gang of Five heading in.  Life's too short to remain angry--let it go and move on or make a change for the better rather than reflecting and complaining about the past.

Other than that, I hope the summer season is going well for all of you.

~Adam


FYI - If you've noticed some topics are missing, removed, or otherwise MIA, they're gone for a reason; don't repost them.

[action9000]

Point is, there's a fine line between a topic meant for debate, and one created to simply rant or stir up support or anger. I'm seeing less of the former, and more of the latter.

I am in total agreement.  The After Midnight section is designed for intelligent conversation and discussion between members about serious or important topics, not as a place to release one's anger.  If you have a problem and want our advice, it's a great place to ask.  If you want to point out and discuss an important local or world event, feel completely free.

From my perspective, the general rule is as follows:
If the topic is more likely to attract frustration or anger than to induce intelligent conversation, it doesn't need to be posted.

Let's be part of the solution, not the problem, through discussion and wisdom. B)

[NewOrder]

I don't quite agree with you. Sure, this board should not be used to make angry remarks or propaganda to some sort of movement agains something some people quite don't agree on. However, if someone has a problem and needs help to fix it, why shouldn't they ask for help here?
Deleting posts or topics with racist remarks, slander, insults, whatever is ok and the right thing to do, but otherwise it's a sort of censurship, and we're no longer in a fascist world.
I admit that most of the north-american population aren't used to being opresed so they look at these issues lightly, but for most of europe, free speach is a really big deal.

[Petrie.]

I ought to lay this down right now...I'm not out to censor people here, nor is any of my staff which helps me here.  That is not our goal.  Our goal is to create a strong, respectable, responsible community first and foremost.  There are topics I've felt that disturb and prevent us from reaching that goal and they've been removed.    I think you can agree with our #1 goal.

and we're no longer in a fascist world.

If I didn't have a staff to talk to about these things before a decision is made, this would be a sort of one-sided board, I agree, but that's not how things are done here.  Ask any of the staff.  The only thing where they have no say on is the addition of staff to the board...that is it.  The GOF wouldn't be what it is without them, I can tell you that.

I admit that most of the north-american population aren't used to being opresed so they look at these issues lightly, but for most of europe, free speach is a really big deal.

You have to remember this: our board revolves around a child's film franchise.  Even though a majority of us may be around 20 years old, we are not the target audience.  The last thing I want, is the target audience and their parents to find this place and see some of the things that I went and removed last night.  After Midnight can be accessed by simply registering, and lurking isn't simply all that fun, so people register.  Yes, I like free speech too (and I'll ignore the American oppressed comment) but there are times where you just should not be saying anything that comes to mind....this is one of those places because of what we are.  We are not a politics board.  We are not necessarily going to cater to middle-aged adults.  Ideally, we should be ready for younger members to register someday.  I don't censor swearing, I don't censor some of the really mature topics in AM, but there are times when some things are just best left unshared.  That is why we don't take "free speech" entirely literally here.

[novaflare]

On forums freespeech is not a right it is a privilage. It can be yanked any time admins and owners of the forum feel it is somethign that needs to be done to evolve or maintain their ideals of what the forum should be. Ive seen some topic id have nuked instantly as a moderator. As a mod on many forums over the years ive yanked topic no explanation given. Then had the user repost when there was a nice this topic has been deleted by a moderator. This was before any replies were made so theres no way said poster did not know it was nuked because of his post. On repost i renuked and banned those users.  


Just remember folks the mods and admins here need not explain any reasoning they have for removing posts. If they do its because they wanted to explain their actions not because they had to.

I could rant on this topic for hours because of how often ive been called a "nazi" or a "dictator" or a dozen other choice terms for deleting posts and banning users on various forums.

[NewOrder]

Hmm.. if you put it that way, ok. I think we should actually find out what are target audience really is. Although lbt is a kids series, many of the users aren't, and little kids aren't going to register. A more thourough aproach to the subject is in order.

[novaflare]

Hmm.. if you put it that way, ok. I think we should actually find out what are target audience really is. Although lbt is a kids series, many of the users aren't, and little kids aren't going to register. A more thourough aproach to the subject is in order.

Curious as to what you would think a good aproach would be? Though theres no way to confirm ages with 100% certenty heres what was done with the rubies pvp server. Sence it has no language or nameing rules etc we only allow those who are 18 or older on that server. And yes we have delt with those who admited they were under 18 at some point after playing on the server. I suppose the after mid night section of the board allows it could be restricted to only users whos age is above x and is basically confirmed.

I see a number of reasons this would not work. The biggest is while legally the admins mods and users would legally be covered morally we would not. We would still potentially be exposign kids to the content there.

As for sub 15 or 10 or 12 year olds not beign on forums youd be quite suprised as to just what kids can and do sign up for these days.

I know of a few confirmed 10 year olds in the game im a gm for. They signed up firsst and later their parents and older brothers and sisters joined them. Not the other way around. Things like this need to be considered. Kids do sign up for forums email accounts games etc. Be that with or with out their parents permision. I could easly see a 10 year old findign these forums. I could see his parents reading them with him and saying ok yeh you can sign up.

Then seeing after midnight and going hey whats this forum. Then finding out its far from kid friendly. For all we know some of those members with zero posts could infact be such kids.

One possability that could be made to work is limit AM to those users with x post count only. Then the mods and admins would know the person a fair bit they would likely have their age in their profile and a choice could then be made to remove or leave access. It would how ever require a fair bit of work on the admin and mods part.

What other ideas do you all have?

Note this post was not directed entirely at neworder but those reading it in general. Just to see what other ideas people may have

[landbeforetimelover]

Sence it has no language or nameing rules etc we only allow those who are 18 or older on that server.

I would be pretty mad if that happened here.  I'm fifteen and I can handle anything that's thrown at me in the AM section.  You should make it a requirement that each user post a picture of themself to verify age if they want access to the AM section.  I know it isn't foolproof but it sure would reduce the chance of age deception.  I have never heard of a 10 year old liking lbt.  I think lbt fans mainly consist of the age groups 2-7 and 13+.  I really don't think that many people like lbt between the ages of 7-13.  I beleive this is because when the children start going to school, it's unacceptable to act like a "baby" by watching cartoons.  These children try to fit in and go into denial about their liking for LBT.  By the age of 13, some see the cartoons they liked when they were younger and are old enough to make their own decisions more and don't feel the need to be completely part of a group anymore.  They just keep their fondness for it a secret because they were ridiculed for it in the past in school.  Then, they eventually wind up here or just keep it to themselves.  In my opinion, anyone who has liked lbt their entire life is a very strong person.  There are some of them out there but frankly, most of us arn't that strong to just ignore everything people say.  If they did this by keeping their lbt obsession private, they are considerably more mature than others their age.

[Petrie.]

The age thing won't work--kids lie on the internet about their age.  You want to know how many times as a teacher I've been told from the kids themselves they simply lie about their age and register anyway?  I would never be able to confirm or deny anything.  Who wouldn't want to be in a little back room to see what's going on?  We've tried this setup before where you had to be allowed in otherwise that section was invisible and it lasted three days before I decided we would never be able to tell who was worthy of seeing it and who wasn't.

[NewOrder]

Just to make everythink clear, which subjects are being banned? Besides the obvious ones.

[Petrie.]

Just to make everythink clear, which subjects are being banned? Besides the obvious ones.

The things removed were rants about various things.  Usually it depends not on the subject matter, but where the members take the post.

[Ryuukokoro]

I'm sort of in disagreement here. I think a community is the perfect place to rant when you're frustrated and looking for support. For example, on the pony island game I play, I entered into a game and the people hosting the game cheated and gave the prize to another person. Now I have no proof that this happened, but I'm pretty sure that was what went on behind the scenes. I couldn't really rant and raise a fuss on that board, because I would look like the childish one and it wouldn't get me anything.

So instead I went to another messageboard that I frequent and posted a rant that I lost in the game and that I thought it was rigged. Yes, it was a childish rant and no one at the other message board really had anything to do with my experience, but I was looking for sympathy so I could feel better.

I completely agree with NewOrder:
"Deleting posts or topics with racist remarks, slander, insults, whatever is ok and the right thing to do, but otherwise it's a sort of censurship, and we're no longer in a fascist world."

It's one thing to take out posts that are full of swears or whatever, but if you're deleting posts just because someone is ranting and trying to vent, you're being a little too controlling, in my opinion.

But that's just me. I haven't even been to the After Midnight section, so I don't know what posts were being deleted or what was being said. But I feel very strongly that people should have a place to go when they need to rant and vent. Playing music by yourself is fine, but sometimes we as humans need social interaction, to know we're not just overreacting by ourselves. Maybe we should make a section just for rants, if you think the After Midnight section is inappropriate for some of the things being posted?

When I went to the other message board and posted, I was looking for a sympathetic ear, someone who would say "You're right, that wasn't fair of them!" Someone to take my side. I can't get that by listing to music or thinking of childhood things. Sure I could cool my anger in some other way, but I can't get a sense of comradary or acknowledgement of my hurt unless I talk with other people about it.

But like I said, I haven't been reading the posts, so I'm just going by what you have posted in this thread. That's my two cents on the matter of censorship and ranting in forums.

[Petrie.]

It's one thing to take out posts that are full of swears or whatever, but if you're deleting posts just because someone is ranting and trying to vent, you're being a little too controlling, in my opinion.

Read my earlier reply and what novaflare said.  We feel we're doing what's right for the board.

When I went to the other message board and posted, I was looking for a sympathetic ear, someone who would say "You're right, that wasn't fair of them!" Someone to take my side. I can't get that by listing to music or thinking of childhood things. Sure I could cool my anger in some other way, but I can't get a sense of comradary or acknowledgement of my hurt unless I talk with other people about it.

If you looking for sympathy, posting a rant is not how to get any (from me anyway).  I'm not saying you cannot rant, but there are ways of controlling what you do say before you hit "Add Reply".

[Malte279]

While I'm opposing harsh censorship I do support measures to limit the amount of random threads in accordance with section 3. 1 of the GOF board rules.
Each case must be judged individually, but with the sheer amount of "I hate everything and everthing hates me" kind of topics we must decide on whether we want to pile up all that stuff. Most of these threads are really not meant to promote any discussion but tend towards flaming.
OF COURSE the GOF is not meant to be "intellectual only" keeping out the emotion, but threads made up just to get others to curse whomever the author is cursing, or talk just about how bad everything and everyone else is really don't lead us anywhere. We have had many such threads and really in the long run they are kind of unnerving for lack of substance.
Many of the threads are also kind of repetitive (first we have a thread to complain about graffitis in public bathrooms, than we have a thread about how dirty public bathrooms are etc.). The threads about how evil people at school and in general are can hardly be counted. Without any point like discussing an issue, looking for advice etc. it is hard to see the point of many threads just asking the members of this board to declare people they have never met in their life "jerks" to make the authors of the threads feel better.
You can rest assured that such harsh measures as removing posts are not taken because the admins are bored or something. Every case (except for commercial spamming) is discussed among the admins and there must be wide agreement among the active admins to remove a post. In case of doubt the post may be restored (as happened quite recently).
With all the connotations of the term I do think that the term "fashism" has been used very carelessly indeed in this thread <_<

[CasualtiesFan]

In my opinoin, limiting one's thoughts, speech, actions, or freedoms is socialism.

[DarkHououmon]

In my opinoin, limiting one's thoughts, speech, actions, or freedoms is socialism.

I don't think there was any intention on limiting one's thoughts. No one can control what one thinks.

But speech and actions should be controlled because if they aren't, then I believe things could get out of hand. If there was no limitations on what members could say and post, then we could see a lot of unpleasant topics popping up and more conflicts occuring. That's just how I see things, though.

And of course all these topics will not do the board any favors in inspiring new members to join. In fact, unpleasant topics could drive people away, the way I see it.

If you looking for sympathy, posting a rant is not how to get any

I agree. I don't think ranting (to speak or declaim extravagantly or violently; talk in a wild or vehement way; rave) is a good way of trying to get others' sympathy for something that bothers you.

[Petrie.]

Even if it seems socialistic to you, there are many things we don't want to see as topics here.  DH has explained it well.

[Malte279]

It is interesting though to see how many labels are attached to the admins of the board. First we were accused to have fashist tendencies, next we are suspected of socialist tendencies. I wonder if those people who write stuff like that are even remotely AWARE of what those terms mean! Fashism and a perverted form of socialism (the original form of which doesn't have anything to do with limiting the  right to speak) caused terrible misery in the country I live in and on the basis of the first of those two "ideologies" dreadful atrocities were committed by the people of my country just a few generations ago.
I daresay that Petrie, Action9000, Littlefoot-1616, Nick22, and I are not that bad. The very fact that we permit ourselves being accused of tendencies to these ideologies goes to show that censorship in this board is not exactly oppressive as far as the regular members are concerned.
To all those who come up with "fancy" terms to describe how very evil we are I recommend taking a look into history books and reconsider if perhaps their statements are not going just a little bit too far! :angry:

[Petrie.]

I daresay that Petrie, Action9000, Littlefoot-1616, Nick22, and I are not that bad. The very fact that we permit ourselves being accused of tendencies to these ideologies goes to show that censorship in this board is not exactly oppressive as far as the regular members are concerned.
To all those who come up with "fancy" terms to describe how very evil we are I recommend taking a look into history books and reconsider if perhaps their statements are not going just a little bit too far!

Now there's a cake-taker post.

[Malte279]

What does "cake-taker post" mean? All the internet provides if I enter "cake-taker" is lots of information on tupperware.