The Gang of Five
The forum will have some maintenance done in the next couple of months. We have also made a decision concerning AI art in the art section.


Please see this post for more details.

Fanart Feedback

Malte279

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Hi everyone!
There is a matter I have been thinking about a lot, the matter of feedback to the land before time fanart presented here in the GOF.
Luckily many of us are presenting their drawings and paintings, their videos and fanfictions here and it is certainly one of the most delightful parts of the GOF :yes
Sometimes artists feel there is very little reaction to the presentation of their fanart, and some of them have already expressed their disappointment about the limited reactions. Most fanart threads consist to less than half of posts not posted by the artist himself or herself. I'm afraid shortage of reactions may discourage some artists from creating and posting more of their work.
On the other hand however it can be difficult to give a helpful feedback on the work other people put a lot of effort and enthusiasm in, in particular if such a feedback wouldn't consist exclusively of praise.
It sure can be motivating to receive a large number of feedbacks telling you that your works is beautiful and that everything is fine. Such feedback however is not likely to promote any change from good to even better in case a piece of art includes some (for lack of a better term. This is not meant to be offensive in any way) "flaw" which could easily be prevented in future work if the artist is aware of it. It is natural that people are less critical about their own work than of other people's work in which they didn't invest any personal effort. Therefore most people are prone to overlook "flaws" in their own work which strikes any other viewer. If the other viewers abstain from mentioning anything negative about the artist's work for the sake of politeness the "flaw" is more likely to be repeated in the future than it would be if a bit of constructive criticism is offered to the artist along with the well deserved praise.
Some artist's will welcome such suggestions of improvement while others won't. This is not meant to sound accusatory of those artists who disapprove of any criticism of their work. It is quite understandable. People who put much effort and commitment into a picture, a video or whatever piece of fanart are proud of their work and don't want to hear it being "smeared" by anyone.
However, people who point out existing shortcomings in a piece of work don't mean to "smear" it, but to help improving it.
The fear of offending people by pointing out shortcomings in their work has often been a reason for me not to write anything at all. Claiming merely that everything was fine for the sake of politeness would have been a lie, which in turn would have been rather impolite and unhelpful even if nobody would have been aware of that impoliteness. I know of several others who told me that they didn't give any feedback on a piece of art presented in this board because of this dilema; it is not just me.
Therefore I suggest that we should make the problem official in order to solve it.
We cannot make rules as to prohibit artists to be offended about crticism of their work, nor should we make rules as to prohibit artists from giving any feedback the artist might not like.
Of course feedback must be in accordance with the board rules (no flaming, no spaming, no personal attacks) and the same goes of course for artists' responses to the feedbacks they are receiving.
Furthermore I suggest feedback to orient along a few simple rules.
-If there is anything you like in particular, let the artist know. He or she may be able to keep up what made a good impression on you in future work  :yes
-The same of course goes for anything which you see as a flaw in the picture (with the only difference that your pointing it out would prevent rather than promote the "flaw" in future work.
-Sometimes one must differentiate between points which are matters of opinion and which are plain facts. For example the number of the characters' fingers, toes, horns, whatever at their current age (as a grownup Cera is likely to grow more horns and bumps on her frill) are known, as are their size relations etc. Mistakes in this field can be pointed out as facts. In other cases it is more a matter of taste (e.g. "your Cera looks really nice, but does she really have to wear that necklace of flowers?). The difference between fact and opinion should be pointed out whenever necessary.

What do all of you (artists, critics, everyone) think? What are your oppinions on this matter?
In the admin section there has been the suggestion of creating a "feedback award" to be voted on this year (for those who are voted for giving to most helpful and / or frequent feedback) was brought up. It is meant to encourage the posting of feedback and thereby the posting of fanart.


Petrie.

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I critique what I know and understand.  I'm lousy for any computer art.  I have no experience and talent with Photoshop et al.  People will say what they can.  A good comment can also mean keep doing what you're doing, not that they necessarily should have to look for some fault for a chance to improve somewhere.


Malte279

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A good comment can also mean keep doing what you're doing, not that they necessarily should have to look for some fault for a chance to improve somewhere.
No doubt about it. There is no need to forcibly search for faults where there are none and good work certainly must be credited in a feedback. Yet it is not the praise of artwork that has contributed to making it somewhat difficult to handle, which is why my post is focused on the more tricky, critical aspect of feedback.


novaflare

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I cant give good feed back on 2d art. Now for 3d i can i don't want to critique some ones work if i cant say ok heres what i would do next time or to fix it. On 3d art one thing i see time and time again with people who are other wise awesome with their 3d is well in a organic model and its to perfect. A example and this would be how most every one models a human or animal face in 3d max. They work on it all at once then have 2 sides right and left. They like one side better so they select the other sides verts and delete em. Then select the other half clone it mirror it stictch togather by welding vert and movign them and now have their chosen half of the face on both sides mirrored. They then stop there and are always going im still not quite happy with the face. I say yeh you got disease called fabioism. Weve all seen the comercials with this guy hes had so much plastic surgery that both sides of his face are spot on symetrical. It looks fake it looks like plastic. The answer is simple for a fix on a model you have created. Loose the symetry. Once you stich your half back togather go back to moving verts around. Add a vert remove a vert move a vert mess up that symetry it dont take much just mess it up a tad. Make a eye smaller move a ear up on a dog cat etc make one ear less pointy than the other. Moving a millimeter on a model that is mesured in yards as per on screen in max co ords can be enough for the mind to notice subcounciously. Same cant be said for hand drawn.

So while i may perceive something a bit wrong with a given bit of art i can not put my fingure on it. So i tend to not critique the work.  

I know some think well art is art you can always spot a flaw and while this is some times true its because the artist or person looking at it can see that way and think that way. I never could i have a heck of a time thinking in 2d. When it comes time to texture a 3d model i have to rely on others to make my texture lol.


Akiko

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I agree, constructive criticism is always helpful; I for one appreciate both comments and the suggestions and advice to improve my artwork. I personally see a lot of mistakes in my own art, especially after it's scanned for some reason, however there almost always seems to be things that I overlook and other people's opinons and ideas mean a lot. :)

I have a harder time giving critcism to other people and friends, since at first glance I find every piece of art to be a creative masterpiece in it's own way; an expression of that person. However, I also know it's helpful in the long run to attempt to give just suggestions; like others, I'm not always as good at this. :unsure:


novaflare

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Quote from: Akiko,Apr 3 2007 on  01:25 PM
I agree, constructive criticism is always helpful; I for one appreciate both comments and the suggestions and advice to improve my artwork. I personally see a lot of mistakes in my own art, especially after it's scanned for some reason, however there almost always seems to be things that I overlook and other people's opinons and ideas mean a lot. :)

I have a harder time giving critcism to other people and friends, since at first glance I find every piece of art to be a creative masterpiece in it's own way; an expression of that person. However, I also know it's helpful in the long run to attempt to give just suggestions; like others, I'm not always as good at this. :unsure:
Well considering ive used scanners to lookfor breaks in computer board traces (the little lines yu see on a board) It stands to reason when you scan a image in and its like 4x the size of the original youll spot more things you  consider wrong in a drawing. By the same account if you shrink any given drawing down in scale youll see fewer "flaws".  Basically when you scan somethign in with a scanner youll see every spec of dust or gap in a color in that is there. Thats another reason why you can use a scanner to help you with your art work when it comes time to add the color to it. You can use it so you can spot those gaps in color and use it as a guid to know where you need or want to add more.


Malte279

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I wonder who of our artists (for all kinds of fanart and projects) are interested in feedback if it includes both, praise for the good and criticism for what could be improved (no fault-finding, but remedy-finding if possible) at all. I'm very uncertain who really wants to hear both, or who would rather hear nothing at all.


landbeforetimelover

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I wonder who of our artists (for all kinds of fanart and projects) are interested in feedback if it includes both, praise for the good and criticism for what could be improved (no fault-finding, but remedy-finding if possible) at all.[/qute]

Well, I personally like to have more criticism than praise.  Criticism is very good in the sense that it tells you what you need to improve upon.  I certainly don't mean useless comments like "That sucked" or "how stupid".  I believe that when  you're criticising something, you are obligated to justify your way of thinking, not just give a useless comment.

In my opinion, praise is pretty much useless the main thing you were seeking is personal gradification.  The purpose of doing a project is getting the project done, not making yourself feel good.  My final word:  Give me critisicm!


Malte279

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Aye, you mentioned your readiness to accept both on earlier occassions Austin :yes
What about our other aritsts?


Malte279

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Anyone? I am not sure in some cases if I should respond and hand out the suggestions for possible improvement along with the criticism.

As for myself, I'm very glad about both. Please do not nod off everything I say or write, or draw, or produce. I'm always open to constructive criticism.

Just for the record, I'm very close to committing murder if anyone promised some feedback in exchange. I don't think anybody here ever posted the equivalent amount of fanart to 2 soapstone figures, 1 tin figure, 10 chapters of fanfiction, 1 aquarelle, 3 colored drawings, 1 pencil drawing, and 1 acryl painting without receiving ANY response whatsoever. If I was paranoid (and some would say I am) I would think it has something to do with me. :cry :( :cry2


Petrie.

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^ Don't know, Malte.  Really I don't.  I try to and you know that.


Megatoph

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I'm pretty happy with the resaults of my work. as well as the feedback from it. I just haven't been online enough to post more of my work. pluse most of my work is more Toph, Transformers, Godzilla, HALO, Predator, and Alien related and I doubt anybody on here would like to see it wich is another reason as to why I barely post some of my work. but I also like to here a critics point of vew on my work. critism is good for art devolopment. it helps improve work.

also as said before I'm barely on this site to post more of my work. but if anybody wants me to I can try and come on more often and post it. but I highly doubt it.


DarkHououmon

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Sorry for not making a response sooner. I wasn't really sure what to say.

But when it comes to feedback, sure I'd like it. I'm happy with most comments, so long as they are positive or helpful tips. I'm not generally picky and won't force people to comment on my work unless they want to themselves.


Malte279

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You don't need to force people. They post by themselves in response to your art ;)


landbeforetimelover

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I'm not generally picky and won't force people to comment on my work

Just a quick question.  How would you force another person to type a comment  when your where you are and they're way over on the other side of the world?


DarkHououmon

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Perhaps I worded it wrong. I just meant that I do not complain about not getting feedback, and that I don't post up messages telling people to comment on my work.

I've had a case where someone on DA (I won't mention the name) sent me a message demanding that I comment on all of their work that I had faved.


Malte279

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Nobody can be forced to give feedback on anything, nor would it be too practicable as such "forced feedback" could hardly be objective. Nevertheless I see why people who don't receive any reaction whatsoever would grow frustrated about it in the long run, especially if other people's fanart gets feedback on regular basis. Perhaps their point is more understandable to those who have been in that situation themselves.


Path Light

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I did not draw any fanart of the LBT dinosaurs. :p
I like to watch Dino Squad, Street Sharks, Sabrina's Secret Life, Extreme Dinosaurs, Sonic Underground, Transformers Prime, Power Rangers, Yugioh, Phineas and Ferb, Digimon, Cardfight Vanguard, Land Before Time (14 Films and TV Series) and I like to play Zuma Deluxe


FreckledOne

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Well, since this thread has been bumped already I might as well add a more on-topic response.
I do like constructive criticism, because it helps to figure out what in a picture is not working if something feels "off". Even if I get a little defensive about my pictures sometimes I still appreciate comments others are willing to share.

And of course I like getting positive feedback  :lol: , but if you think something just isn't working and could be done better (emphasis added), please share what you think. It is a bit frustrating when someone tells you "this isn't working" but doesn't give you any suggestions on how to make it better. This isn't directed at anyone here specifically, but I've had these scenarios happen to me in art classes all the time.