Could the sequels have been made darker?

[brekclub85]

Though I do like the LBT sequels, I can sort of understand the critique that they weren't as serious/dark as the original LBT.

Like the topic title says, do you think any of the sequels could have been with the same more serious tone that the first one had while still keeping the same basic plotlines?

IMO, The Mysterious Island I think could have been as serious as the first 1 with a few tweaks. The first portion or so of the movie works just fine, with the valley losing all of the green food, and the dinosaurs having to go into the Mysterious Beyond.

Now for the portion of the movie occurring on the island, had they perhaps given more focus on Chomper, and maybe go more into his mind, and imply that him choosing to not try to eat his friends wasn't such an easy choice and that he might be conflicted between his friendships and his instincts could have been an interesting conflict.

Do you guys have any thoughts on this?

[Allicloud]

I have to agree. It would have been pretty easy to make them darker.

as you say with number 5, it seems like a pretty serious, almost dark movie, until they run into Chomper. After that, it's clearly kiddy.

And as you say, if they had delved a bit deeper into Chomper and his thoughts, it could have been pretty serious. As far as I can tell from the real version, there is only one brief time when we get a glimpse at him struggling with his carnivorous nature (when he is apparently tempted to take a bit out of Littlefoot's leg). So, if his conflict had been the main conflict of the second act, it could have been a pretty serious film.

Another way they could have made it a bit darker is very simple: have the villains actually DO something villainous! When you think about it, most of the time the villain's evil is simply threatening. There are only a few times when the villains actually do something (such as when Pterano kidnaps Ducky, or when Dil almost devours her). A prime example is Hyp Nod and Mutt. Outside of threaten the kids, they do very little that is villainous. In fact, in number III, Topsy is almost more of a villain than them, with the way he tries to maintain order in the valley by taking control. If they had concentrated more on him instead of the bullies, he could have become the antagonist, and that would have been really interesting.

A few other examples of ways are the following:

As opposed to having the characters always narrowly avoid injury, or shrug it off in seconds, actually injure them a few times! I'm not talking copious blood or anything (though that would up the darkness a considerabel notch), just...you know, have character actually react to being injured, like limping, passing out, etc.

A simple change of the colour scheme. The first sequels were okay with their colour schemes, though they could do with making the pallette a bit darker. But the computer sequels (7 and onwards) were very brightly coloured, which makes them really stand out. If they just kept with the earth-colours/pastelle palette of the original sequels, it could have worked really well (In fact, I'd go so far as to say that this is a prominent reason that most people say that they thought the first few sequels were good, but the rest sucked). One thing they do get right though, is the colour changes for mood: such as reddening during a dramatic violent scene, or suchlike. Of course, this can be overdone (The Pagemaster is a good example), but if they used it more, it would certainly make them more imposing and dramatic.

Another easy example is the songs. You can basically separate the songs into 2 categories: The ballads and the sillies. (with a few exceptions). If they had just made a few more serious songs, that weren't ballads, maybe fans would have taken the songs more seriously.


I'm sure I'll think of more ideas, but I'll turn it over to you guys

[jansenov]

First, remove most of the songs (arguing which, would, however, cause a lot of quarell here).

LBT II could have been made darker as well. For example, when the Gang was rescued from the mud, their parents were mad at them and they all got memorable lectures at home. However, these were only retold latter by the main characters.
I think it would be very educational of one of these lectures were actually shown. Topsy's lecture would probably not be a good choice, but Mrs. Flyer's, Ducky's parents' and Littlefoot's granparents' would. I would especially like to see what Ducky went through, as her account of the lecture suggests there was a lot of gesticulation involved (Finger points at head: "Put it into your silly head, you're not an adult!"). It would be very good if the adults first show anger with what the kids have done, and then express their parental worriness and soften at the end of the lecture. It would resemble a real life situation.

It would be also "nice" if Ozzy and Strut were made into real crooks, being very rude and taunting with the Gang, and downright scary in their intentions (they don't kill anyone, however).

A much darker change could be made as well. Simply, have the egg from Ducky's nest destroyed in an accident.  The Gang still finds Chomper's egg, and brings it to Ducky's nest, only to see that the egg they looked for is gone. This will be a hard blow for the Gang, especially for Ducky. This causes resentment towards unhatched Chomper. Littlefoot however maintains his composure and protects the egg, arguing with an angry Cera that it isn't the egg's fault for everything that's happened (Ducky and Spike wallow in sadness, and Petrie comforts them). Littlefoot still takes care of young Chomper, but we also get the opportunity to see his internal struggle over what he is doing (remembering his mother's fate), especially because the rest of the Gang doesn't want to have anything to do with Chomper, but they still remain considerate enough not to tell on Littlefoot. Ducky remains especially confrontational to Chomper for quite some time. However, in the end the rest of the Gang accepts Chomper, but only a few moments before he leaves the Great Valley. Some friendships are not meant to be, says the narrator.

[Petrie85]

Well in my opinion I think when they added some blood to a couple of movies that is a bit dark for a kids movie to have. But managed to have a G Rating Shocking. Even tho a lot of the sequels did suck but they could have made them a bit darker somewhat. I thought the third was a little dark sorta. Not really tho. Yeah the first movie was very dark for a kids movie. Wow death of his mother and some other parts was pretty dark. So they should have made them dark. Since kids back then where old in the 90's and could have dealt with more of a darker story line in those other movies.

[DarkHououmon]

The only LBT sequel that had blood, to my knowledge, was LBT 5. The original only had blood in a shadow (when Littlefoot's mom was attacked) I believe.

[Allicloud]

The only LBT sequel that had blood, to my knowledge, was LBT 5. The original only had blood in a shadow (when Littlefoot's mom was attacked) I believe.

And VERY brief shots of the open wound on her back, either shown as a red patch of skin, or in one shot, the same red patch, but with peeled skin...but that's about it.

And yes, the only time a character has properly bled onscreen was in the fight between Chomper's parents and the gigantosaurus. I have to admit, first time I saw that, I was pretty surprised. It was pretty full on, with no discretion shots or anything (In fact, it even had a closeup in the first slash!), visible flecks of blood, and bloodstained claws!

There was that shot in the fight between the Lone Dinosaur and the Meanest Sharptooth in the beginning of LBT 6, but this was a strange case of a visible cut (complete with closeup as the cut is being made), but no blood.

[brekclub85]

In regards to the songs,

the first American Tail and All Dogs go to Heaven movies both had songs, but both movies still are regarded as dark, Don Bluth classics.  I don't think that songs shouldn't have been in the movies at all, but maybe they should have better written and fit into the themes/plots better, and not be so "kiddish."

[Allicloud]

In regards to the songs,

the first American Tail and All Dogs go to Heaven movies both had songs, but both movies still are regarded as dark, Don Bluth classics.  I don't think that songs shouldn't have been in the movies at all, but maybe they should have better written and fit into the themes/plots better, and not be so "kiddish."

Agreed. I know alot of people compain about the songs, but like it or not, it's a part of the Land Before Time now.

But like I said previously, if they had made more variety, rather than just the slow, ballad songs and the bouncy, silly songs. In fact, I think Standing Tough is the only exception to that rule. It's not slow and peaceful, but it's trying to be serious.

[Petrie85]

Not all the song in the Land Before Time Sequels where awful. A lot of them where actually good and worth listening to. And all of these song's  hold a place to the series and our hearts. And they're very catchy and good. Some of them where awful but where worth a listen/

[Allicloud]

Not all the song in the Land Before Time Sequels where awful. A lot of them where actually good and worth listening to. And all of these song's  hold a place to the series and our hearts. And they're very catchy and good. Some of them where awful but where worth a listen/

I'm not saying they aren't. I agree that the vast majority of the songs are pretty good, with the ballads usually being charming and heartfelt, and the quirky songs usually being fun and catchy (In fact, I have several on my ipod). I'm just saying that they could have afforded to make a few serious ones, rather than just happy ones and ballad-esque ones.

[Petrie85]

Yeah I hear you on that. Like some moments in the movies where serious and they could have made the song more serious in stead of a happy go lucky song. So yeah a lot of those song's could have been more serious in stead of fun and funny. So I see your complaints about most of the song's. The mood of the song;s could have been more darker in some ways.

[Coyote_A]

I'd say the LBT sequels should have been made darker to resemble the original movie's style. But alas, we live in times when cartoons for children are supposed to look as colorful as possible.

[jansenov]

^ I actually find today's cartoons to be more disturbing than original LBT (have you ever seen CatDog?). The LBT franchise is in fact an exception to the rule, regarding darkness (weirdness actually).

[Petrie85]

Some of the sequels where Horrible. The CGI Mixed with with regular Animation was horrible and not needed. Hence the reason why I hated a lot of the sequels.

[Allicloud]

^ I actually find today's cartoons to be more disturbing than original LBT (have you ever seen CatDog?). The LBT franchise is in fact an exception to the rule, regarding darkness (weirdness actually).

Thing is, there are alot of different forms of darkness in cartoons. Here are the main three forms:

1. Edge- This is snarky, snide humour, almost bordering on insult comedy, as well as occasonal innuendoes, media references, etc. Some of the later sequels occasionally begin to sneak into this, such as:

Loofah: But we gotta go to lead our herd.

Doofah: They'd be lost without us!
(beat)
Petrie: (He and Ducky look to Cera) You... not gonna say something?

Cera: Maybe later.

2. Surreality- This is when a cartoon can be considered too much for younger viewers simply because of how absolutely off the wall crazy it is. Whether the storylines are completely bizarre, the animation is crazy, things are left unexplained, no backstories for weird characters, etc...Case in point, Ren and Stimpy, Catdog, Hey Arnold... heck, any Nicktoon that isn't Rugrats or Doug.

3. Just plain darkness. This is probably the simplest best form of darkness in cartoons. This is when it is simply not cheery, not pleasent, but that is simply because the environment is harsh and unforgiving, the tone is grim and melancholy, it's possibly violent and even gory, and deals with pretty serious situations. A great example is The Secret of NIMH. No media references, no snarky humour, no comic relief (aside from Jeremy, and he was just a klutz with a funny voice), just plain darkness. The first LBT is very this too. Harsh, bleak landscapes, some nasty characters, no snarkiness, no media references



And, in response to Coyote_A_: Alas, 'tis the curse of the Animation Age Ghetto, wherein every executive in charge of animation and producing animated media believes that it always has to be marketed to kids, or be made to be possible to market to kids (LBT is another great example, with Lucas and Spielberg mutilating the original cut to get a G rating. In my opinion, the greatest honour an animated family film can have is a PG rating!)

[Petrie85]

Some of the cartoons we watched as a kid where very dark and creepy. Like the Sven Hoek Episode was the most darkest cartoon I ever saw. And it was very violent as well. The Land Before Time Series where not  really dark. The first one yes. The others kinda but the hid it quite well.

[Nick22]

4 could have played up the fact the Grandpa Longneck was dying.. and have ali and littlefoot trapped together while facing dil and ichy

[Petrie85]

Yeah true that part was a little bit dark. Grandpa was sick and dying. But survived.

[Coyote_A]

I agree, that the Land of the Mists was a somewhat gloomy place and even a little scary. But nothing as scary as a barren death valley the gang ventured through in the original movie. That desert had the word "despair" written all over it.

[Malte279]

Personally I would have liked for some more "darkness" in the sequels. Now this doesn't mean that I would want them to get rid of all songs (while admittedly with some songs I really think they would be no loss there are also some which I would sorrwly miss), but already it would help to give a little more attention to the "dark stuff" which exists in the sequels but is never ever acknowledged by the characters. There is for example the extreme taboo on mentioning Littlefoot's mother (or any of the other disappearing relatives for that matter). Perhaps they felt it was too hot an iron to touch, but during the whole story with Chomper it comes almost as a surprise that at no point Cera says anything to the effect that she is wondering why Littlefoot (after loosing his mother to a sharptooth) would develop so paternal feelings for Chomper. This is even more striking given the fact that the return of the Chomper... pardon, the Mysterious Island actually was the first sequel to make reference about Littlefoot's mother, but stopped at drawing any line between this and the obvious link to the current story.
But even without this most difficult dark element there would be plenty of missed oportunities for the "postitive" (for quality of story) kind of dark elements in the story. Take LBT 2 and 3's views at the Mysterious Beyond for example. There's a group of little kids wondering through a landscaple littered with (almost made up of) corpses of other dinosaurs of all kinds. This would be kind of disturbing to kids (unless we assume LBT dinosaur kids' psychology to work much more different from that of human kids than the movies otherwise suggest). The most important thing however which they should have never done was to make the sharpteeth harmless kids toys rather than an actual thread. They started with LBT 2 already. Tripping a sharptooth with a vine, Ducky kicking the sharptooth's nose etc. are taking a bit of the bite outh of the sharptooth. But to be fair in LBT 2 there were moments were Chomper's parents did come across as a real threat to the kids. In many of the later movies sharpteeth have been reduced to drooling idiots that will be stopped by pretty much anything and never seem to pose much of a threat. When in those movies the kids are screaming and running away from some sharptooth that will be snowballed, tickled into submission, or send to any other undignified end you don't really feel any kind of worry for the kids live anymore.
In LBT 9 and some moments of the TV series we had scenes where a character was presumed to be death. Obviously the character in question was saved (and there was a degree of explanation on how the character in question got away), but still those scenes were emotionally quite powerful and I see a lot of potential to work such stuff out to good ends in a story.