How will death be dealt with?

[Serris]

A discussion in Info about the game mentioned what happens when your character's HP reaches 0 and dies.

Although in most RPGs death is due to combat; it is likely that death in this RPG is due to environmental hazards or stamina loss with some occasions caused by combat.

Now what should the penalties be?

I have compiled a list of what I could think of:

"Realistic death" - character dies and is deleted.

Upshots: Realistic, adds level of challange ,impossible to abuse for rapid traveling
Downsides: Extremely annoying and likely to cause anger.

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Stat drop - character dies and reincarnates at a safe location but loses stats as a penalty

Upshots: less irritating than "realistic death", penalty reduces likelihood of abuse for rapid traveling
Downsides: annoying, could still be abused for rapid traveling

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Mercy warp - character dies and is reincarnated at a safe spot

Upshots: won't irritate players
Downsides: way too easy to abuse for rapid travel

Mercy warp (variant) - character dies and is teleported a short distance from where they died.

Upshots: won't irritate players, abuse potential is almost nonexistant (character has to travel to safe spot)
Downsides: define "short distance"

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Personally, I think you should lose reputation and all inventory items for death and have a scene where you are chewed out for failing by the dinosaur who gave you the quest.

Also, said dinosaur will not give you any more quests until you successfully complete another quest of similar level from another dinosaur.

[aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)]

I think the screen should fade to black, and then your back at the place where you meet the NPC who put you on the quest. They yell at you, and send you off. So I vote for the final option, with Serris.

[Malte279]

I think a while ago Tim and I agreed in a chat that a complete deleting of a character would be more than should be imposed upon players, but that a painful loss of experience would be in place so players won't grow too careless about the lives of their characters.

[DarkWolf91]

Haha, I'm not too keen on the whole getting chewed out thing.
"I almost died!"
"What? You didn't get my sweet bubbles?! Get out of my sights!"

[NaNaNa]

There could be one universal place you get teleported to when you die that's the worst and most annoying place you could be in the game

[F-14 Ace]

I hate the realistic idea.  That is the reason that Star Wars Galaxies sucks.  You should never have your character deleted for dying because you lose everything you have worked for in the game and have to start all the way over again.  This is just a game, after all, and not real life.  I think I like the last idea the best.

[Malte279]

But what would make a place in the game to be teleported to so very annoying? The place's being so very dangerous that you run a high risk of dying there? Or a place so remote that you have to cover a long boring uneventful way before you get back to business?
Neither seems very practicable. A loss of experience points on the other hand would be annoying enough to keep people from running hazardous risks or committing suicide for the fun of it, but on the other hand it would not ruin everything you have gained so far.

[NaNaNa]

I suppose so. I'm just totally biased against the experience loss after some pretty frustrating experiences. Generally, if you want something or you want to go somewhere enough, experience loss won't really stop you from trying again immediately or after you get it all back. Sometimes it turns into a vicious cycle depending on how impatient you are.

[aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)]

In his "What is this game about?" thread, action said that the player's going to have certain skills, like stamina...stamina......well, there were more than just stamina. Anyway, when one loses a fight, couldn't they just limp away from the fight with all those bars on zero? Then before attempting the fight again they'd have to go places and regain health and stamina. It also has the discouraging effect Malte is talking about, because your character's slow, inaccurate, and incapable of fighting, without actual experience loss. And it avoids the transporter thing that we've been trying to dodge around.

[NaNaNa]

That's a pretty good idea, that's even a lot more realistic than all the other ideas.

Here's one thing I'm confused about though. This isn't gonna be a big server MMORPG, the game will take place in smaller individual hosted games. So...when you log out, and then you log back in, where are you? Do you end up in the place you logged out with all your old items and stamina/health amount?

[action9000]

Here's one thing I'm confused about though. This isn't gonna be a big server MMORPG, the game will take place in smaller individual hosted games. So...when you log out, and then you log back in, where are you? Do you end up in the place you logged out with all your old items and stamina/health amount?

Yep, logging out will work just like a "pause" button, basically. When you come back, your character will be exactly where you left it.  Some items in the world will return to their default locations/conditions.  Others will be left where they were when you quit.  It will depend on the object/item.

You inventory will be the same as when you logged out.

[Malte279]

There are situations where no limping away would be possible. Most of the thought in this thread had been on some fight. However if you have a big sharptooth attacking you he is not likely to just stop because you are limping away. Then there are the situations where you are running out of stamina for lack of food or water to the point where you would die (just a suggestion, perhaps there could be a kind of unconscious state in which a character can no longer be played but where others could still save a character's live by providing food or water (the later being not exactly easy to transport I'm afraid) within a short countdown time.
Perhaps it would generally be a good idea to make it impossible for a character to die without such a countdown time so long the character is part of a group where other group members may still provide help before a character dies.
 
In some situations limping away or help from other characters would be impossible for obvious reasons. You don't limp away after you fell into the crater of a volcano and nobody else would swim through the lava to provide you with "medical attention" of any sort.

[aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)]

When you fall into a volcano I find it hard to think of any way you could realistically survive, teleport method or no. We could just make it impossible for some idiot to jump into the volcano.

And I didn't know dying of starvation was possible in this game. Couldn't hunger just deplete your stamina and strength levels without actually killing you?

[F-14 Ace]

I don't care about the XP but I am very much against having your character deleted.

[Malte279]

^ I don't think that would be a good idea. Concern for food is one of the major issues in LBT. In the original movie, the third, fifth, and eight movie they are not looking for food respectively water out of concern for their stamina, but because if they don't get it they will die. Also if starvation did not have that ultimate consequence the crossing of Mysterious Beyond regions without regular food supply would be too much of a matter of course. The characters would arrive at their destination with stamina too low to climb etc. not a big deal. Sensible planning about your resources and deciding what your character(s) can do respectively what they can't (and in many cases what one character can't while a group of characters can) is meant to be an essential part of the game.

[aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)]

Maybe, but it feels to me like crossing the Mysterious Beyond in 30 minutes because you have zero stamina, while a similar player with stamina on full finishes the exact same hike in an eighth of the time, would motivate people to keep their stamina high.

[NaNaNa]

Thoughtful indeed. Without the threat of starvation, the Great Valley wouldn't be half as great. The problem is, if we include death by starvation, we can't go with LettuceBacon&Tomato's idea of limping away from combat death, which then brings back the problem of where you end up after you bite the dust

[Malte279]

Maybe, but it feels to me like crossing the Mysterious Beyond in 30 minutes because you have zero stamina, while a similar player with stamina on full finishes the exact same hike in an eighth of the time, would motivate people to keep their stamina high.

I'm afraid that having everything go in slow motion because of low stamina would in the long run get much more frustrating for players than dying and loosing some points. In some games you just have to walk, and walk, and walk for ages until at last you reach your destination. If this was made worse in the LBT game by endless walks in slow motion I don't expect players to enjoy this. Also in case a group is on the move and only one character has such low stamina that character would slow down everyone else (who could keep a regular pace) permanently.
I suppose the loss of some experience points would be the less frustrating measure.

The problem is, if we include death by starvation, we can't go with LettuceBacon&Tomato's idea of limping away from combat death, which then brings back the problem of where you end up after you bite the dust

The limping away would be realistic in only a few cases anyway (when fighting someone who is not out to kill you. But in most life-threatening LBT situations the characters are not likely to end up just limping away. As for where one ends up after dying I don't suppose this would be too much of a problem. I guess there could be a couple of points scattered at "save" locations on the map and you could restart at the one of the points which you had last past before you died.

[action9000]

Here's my idea for a death system.  It uses the idea from Malte:

Then there are the situations where you are running out of stamina for lack of food or water to the point where you would die (just a suggestion, perhaps there could be a kind of unconscious state in which a character can no longer be played but where others could still save a character's live by providing food or water (the later being not exactly easy to transport I'm afraid) within a short countdown time.
Perhaps it would generally be a good idea to make it impossible for a character to die without such a countdown time so long the character is part of a group where other group members may still provide help before a character dies.

Basically: If players are grouped and one of them "dies" (reaches 0 HP), there is a timer on the group, who can attempt to carry their fallen ally back to a safe area and/or bring them food and water.  Here are a few circumstances:

In normal regions (non-desert, not too hot, not too cold), allies can bring food to their fallen companion to revive them.  Either carrying food to them or carrying them to food.

In desert areas (scarce water): Both food AND water must be brought to the fallen ally, either carrying them to food AND water or carrying food AND water to them.

In extreme temperatures: The ally can only be revived by carrying them out of the environment and bringing them food (and water if it was a desert environment).

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In the event that an entire group dies (or you're playing by yourself), or if you are not revived in time, your screen fades to black and you awaken back at your nest in the Great Valley, where it was "just a dream".  The penalty to this could be a failure of whatever adventure you were working on and having to do something to "appease" the NPC you failed the adventure for.

[NaNaNa]

That seems like it would work. What happens if you log out unconscious?