The Gang of Five

Important Announcements => Announcements => Topic started by: rhombus on May 22, 2018, 03:14:37 PM

Title: The Great Migration
Post by: rhombus on May 22, 2018, 03:14:37 PM
Good afternoon,

As I am sure many of you suspected when we posted our previous announcement, there have been some unexpected developments behind the scenes at the forum.  Due to the nature of what has been going on, I think that it is important that you all are fully informed of the forum's situation, the actions that we admins have taken, and the steps ahead for the forum.  Please take the time to fully read this post so that you are informed of what is going on.  We will be consulting with all of you for recommendations on how to proceed from here.

What has been going on:

As all of you know our previous hosting company, Invisionfree, was purchased by TapaTalk.  As part of this conversion process the company announced last year that all Invisionfree boards were required to either convert to Zetaboards (which has existed since 2008 or so) or to their proprietary TapaTalk format. We admins examined both potential systems and of the two Zetaboards was by far the best suited to this forum - with customizable skins, good spam controls, good desktop support, and other features.  In contrast, the TapaTalk platform was quite cumbersome with an obscene amount of advertising, a lack of customization, poor desktop support (it is mainly a mobile system), a lack of skin support, insane TOS conditions which could threaten roleplays and the promotion of charitable causes, and even the charging $5 for a support ticket to resolve forum issues.  Under these conditions we chose Zetaboards with the understanding (and promise from TapaTalk) that we would be able to stick with the Zetaboards system.

Well, they lied.  TapaTalk totally screwed us over.

Now after countless days of work and troubleshooting to get the Zetaboard forum to work, TapaTalk has informed us that the forum is now required to convert to their TapaTalk platform.  The TapaTalk platform does not support CSS coding at the moment and is made for mobile devices, and though they promise such support will come later, well, we have already seen how reliable their promises are.  They couldn't even be bothered to inform us directly - instead they made a post about it on their support forum and have failed to answer questions from concerned and panicked forum administrators.  Many other forums are considering leaving their platform altogether, but this has been made difficult as TapaTalk is not giving anyone the option of buying their own databases.  This was an option that Invisionfree had offered, but we lost it when we converted to Zetaboards.  Which explains why TapaTalk forced that initial conversion to Zetaboards or TapaTalk.  Now they have this forum and others trapped with the only options being sticking with TapaTalk or deleting their forums and starting over.

Oh, and just to show everyone how utterly incompetent the people at TapaTalk are, what they have for our conversion preview board is this: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/thegangoffive/index.php (https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/thegangoffive/index.php) . So, yep.  It appears that post-conversion they were going to replace this board with Pathlight's board.

What we have done:

Thankfully, however, there was an option that provided a way out from this trap.  Since TapaTalk would not provide us with our forum database we had to acquire it through other means, as we are unwilling to let 14 years of forum history go down the drain due to one company's greed and arrogance.  The technique that we used allowed us to capture the forum topics, sections, posts, and member information.  It, however, does not allow us to capture the avatars, member signatures, or forum skins - so each member would need to re-input those after any migration and we admins will need to create new skins for whichever new forum home we decide to move in to.

We will not get into the exact details of how zero-point obtained our data until the movement to a new home is complete.  Suffice to say, that is a saga in itself.

What still needs to be done:

So this brings us to the situation today.  The forum is about to take a major step by migrating to a new hosting company.  This will not be easy.  In fact, it will be messier than the initial conversion to Zetaboards.  However, with the other possibility being stuck with an untrustworthy company who values money above all else, we admins feel that the forum has no other choice.  To stay with TapaTalk would mean a downgrade to the forum and the loss of its uniqueness in a limited system made only for mobile devices.  It is much better for us to migrate elsewhere and to keep the community that we have all worked hard to build over the years.

With that in mind, here is what each of YOU need to do over the next few days and/or weeks:

1) Copy the necessary information for your signatures – especially the urls for any pictures and links.  Signatures will not transfer over and will need to be put in manually to whatever new forum we migrate to.

2) Copy the urls (or files) for your avatars.  These also will not transfer and will need to be put in manually after the transfer.

3) You may receive a new password by PM over the next few days – RECORD THIS IN A SECURE PLACE SOMEWHERE.  You may need this to access the new forum when we migrate over.

4) Bookmark this website: https://goftestforum.icyboards.net/ (https://goftestforum.icyboards.net/).  This is one of the test boards that we have set up.  But we will use this to post migration announcements in the event that the current forum is taken down by TapaTalk due to the actions we admins have taken.


Here is what we admins will be doing:

1) We will be looking for a suitable new home for our forum.  At this point in time the most promising candidates seem to be phpBB software, but we are looking at forum hosting options.  We will be examining the features and merits of the various options and, if one is especially suitable, begin preparing a proper skin for the new forum prior to the transfer of forum data.

2) We will be welcoming recommendations from each of you.  If you have experience with other forum systems then please let us know.  We are currently assessing our options.

3) And finally we will be keeping you informed throughout this process.  Please keep in mind that this might be a rocky journey – but that the forum’s data is now safe.  Regardless of what happens from here on out, this forum will continue to survive in one form or another.


We understand that this is upsetting news.  We were absolutely furious when we got this news and feared for the future of the forum.  However, now that the data is secure, we have the option for a more hopeful future.  We hope that you all understand that this situation has been forced upon us, and that we are doing our best to make it right.  This company has screwed us over twice now, and we will not permit them a third opportunity.

If you have any questions or comments then please leave them in this topic, and we will respond to the best of our ability.  In the meantime, good luck everyone.  Much like the characters that we all know and love, it is now time for us to make our Great Migration.  And, like them, we are sure that we will find a greener valley in the end.

~ Gang of Five Administrative Team
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: rhombus on May 22, 2018, 03:39:14 PM
If you did not receive a PM with your new password please PM me or zero-point as soon as possible. The automatic password script did not send passwords to some usernames with odd characters in the name.

Also, guys, keep in mind that any posts to the forum that were made after May 19th will probably not be in the file transfer, so keep in mind that new messages may need to be transferred over to the new forum manually once it is up and running.  So back up those posts in a word document or somewhere so you can move them over when the new forum is up.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: landbeforetimelover on May 22, 2018, 04:10:58 PM
To be honest, Zetaboards really sucks anyway.  I think it's time for a change to a platform with more flexibility.  But this time it is absolutely ESSENTIAL that we set up the forums so that they're self-hosted, so we don't have to show ads and so that some big company can't just pull the rug out from underneath us like this in the future.  

I have a small forum on my website, TheLandBeforeTime.org, but it's based on BBPress.  I don't think it could handle the amount of data on the forums here without a significant server upgrade on my part.  How large is GOF anyway?  BBPress is rather primitive, but it has a lot of flexibility and it's easy to add code to it.  I know of a few pretty large forums with 20,000+ members that are based on BBPress.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: WeirdRaptor on May 22, 2018, 04:23:33 PM
I got the password and I'm about to bookmark the site.

Why not use FreeForums? It works well enough.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: rhombus on May 22, 2018, 04:33:57 PM
Quote from: WeirdRaptor on May 22 2018, 03:23:33 PM
I got the password and I'm about to bookmark the site.

Why not use FreeForums? It works well enough.
A big issue for us is being able to convert all of the existing data on the forum into a form that can be used on another platform.  Had we had the option of purchasing our own database then this would have opened up more possibilities for us, but due to the matter in which the data was acquired (and the conversion tools used) this limits our options unless we were willing to let all of the forum data and history be lost.  This is in addition to us not wanting to be subject to the whims of a free hosting company again which can screw us over on a moment's notice.  Currently we are looking at phpBB as an option.

@landbeforetimelover

We were looking at several possibilities including using a paid hosting company (phpBB recommends BlueHost or HostMonster) at least as a temporary option, and they seem to have pretty good reviews.  As for how large the forum is... one of the SMF conversions that we compiled is around 526 megabytes.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: WeirdRaptor on May 22, 2018, 04:36:32 PM
Quote from: rhombus on May 22 2018, 03:33:57 PM
Quote from: WeirdRaptor on May 22 2018, 03:23:33 PM
I got the password and I'm about to bookmark the site.

Why not use FreeForums? It works well enough.
A big issue for us is being able to convert all of the existing data on the forum into a form that can be used on another platform.  Had we had the option of purchasing our own database then this would have opened up more possibilities for us, but due to the matter in which the data was acquired (and the conversion tools used) this limits our options unless we were willing to let all of the forum data and history be lost.  This is in addition to us not wanting to be subject to the whims of a free hosting company again which can screw us over on a moment's notice.  Currently we are looking at phpBB as an option.

@landbeforetimelover

We were looking at several possibilities including using a paid hosting company (phpBB recommends BlueHost or HostMonster) at least as a temporary option, and they seem to have pretty good reviews.  As for how large the forum is... one of the SMF conversions that we compiled is around 526 megabytes.
True. Oh, and my mistake, I meant to say "ProBoards".
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Sneak on May 22, 2018, 05:13:29 PM
Sad to see tings like this. I have already seen this at least two times... :(

huh, any posts since May 19? Thank you for informing! (Maybe you will move this information to header post too?)

Are you sure all database data can be successfully deployed to public on new forums? I don't need to use programs to backup the whole site on my PC like I did with different forum years ago? phew, it would be great news.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: rhombus on May 22, 2018, 05:20:29 PM
Quote from: Sneak on May 22 2018, 04:13:29 PM
Sad to see tings like this. I have already seen this at least two times... :(

huh, any posts since May 19? Thank you for informing! (Maybe you will move this information to header post too?)

Are you sure all database data can be successfully deployed to public on new forums? I don't need to use programs to backup the whole site on my PC like I did with different forum years ago? phew, it would be great news.
Yep, we have obtained all of the data (except avatars and signatures) so the data is safe.  The main thing is making a new skin for the new forum and getting it uploaded to a new host.  But as for backing up posts, only those posts that you have made on or after May 19th need to be copied down.  You will need to post those to the new forum once it is up.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: landbeforetimelover on May 22, 2018, 05:34:07 PM
Quote from: rhombus on May 22 2018, 03:33:57 PM
We were looking at several possibilities including using a paid hosting company (phpBB recommends BlueHost or HostMonster) at least as a temporary option, and they seem to have pretty good reviews.
Just be aware that if you do this, there's going to be a lot more maintenance involved as we'll have to deal with everything under the hood code-wise.  No one else is going to make sure the forums run smoothly on the back end, and there are ALWAYS problems that crop up.  I recommend just getting everything transferred to another platform ASAP just to make sure that the data is actually intact.  Then we can worry about making a more permanent move later.

I used to do web design and development FROM SCRATCH back in the day, but I haven't kept up with the latest developments.  I run a computer repair and sales business and I design websites for other companies, but Wordpress has made me lazy these days when it comes messing with the really deep stuff.  When you're running a business, time is money, and it's a lot easier to just base everything on Wordpress and go from there than to do everything from scratch like I used to do all those years ago.

I must admit, I found it a fun challenge to customize BBPress and make it look and function as well as it does on my website.  Unfortunately it doesn't have all the features of Zetaboards or phpBB.  I would be a fun challenge to really get deep into BBPress itself and add new features.  The problem is time.  Running a business takes everything out of me and I don't have the energy I used to when I was younger and new to the forums here (2007).
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: rhombus on May 22, 2018, 05:44:29 PM
Quote from: landbeforetimelover on May 22 2018, 04:34:07 PM
Quote from: rhombus on May 22 2018, 03:33:57 PM
We were looking at several possibilities including using a paid hosting company (phpBB recommends BlueHost or HostMonster) at least as a temporary option, and they seem to have pretty good reviews.
Just be aware that if you do this, there's going to be a lot more maintenance involved as we'll have to deal with everything under the hood code-wise.  No one else is going to make sure the forums run smoothly on the back end, and there are ALWAYS problems that crop up.  I recommend just getting everything transferred to another platform ASAP just to make sure that the data is actually intact.  Then we can worry about making a more permanent move later.

I used to do web design and development FROM SCRATCH back in the day, but I haven't kept up with the latest developments.  I run a computer repair and sales business and I design websites for other companies, but Wordpress has made me lazy these days when it comes messing with the really deep stuff.  When you're running a business, time is money, and it's a lot easier to just base everything on Wordpress and go from there than to do everything from scratch like I used to do all those years ago.

I must admit, I found it a fun challenge to customize BBPress and make it look and function as well as it does on my website.  Unfortunately it doesn't have all the features of Zetaboards or phpBB.  I would be a fun challenge to really get deep into BBPress itself and add new features.  The problem is time.  Running a business takes everything out of me and I don't have the energy I used to when I was younger and new to the forums here (2007).
Thank you very much for your feedback on this.  :)

We have transferred the data to an ad hoc server (zero-point's computer) and the data is in fact intact.  Right now we are converting this data into the latest phpBB format and from there we can check on moving the data somewhere.  If we moved it to a paid host temporarily then this could allow the forum to continue and allow us to get the fine-tuning done on the code before we perhaps move the forum to whatever the permanent host would be.

And it is quite understandable that with an active business that you would not have time to focus on coding other platforms besides what you actively use.  Nonetheless we appreciate your feedback on our current situation, and we hope to have things somewhat settled in (on a host somewhere) in the near-future.  :yes
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: The Chronicler on May 22, 2018, 07:06:06 PM
Well, if you're interested in ideas for a new kind of forum system to use, I might as well mention the kind that's currently being used by BZPower.com (http://www.bzpower.com/board/index.php) (IP.Board, based on what I can see at the bottom of the page). I honestly don't know if it'll work for us, but over the years that I've been using that forum, things seem fine to me.

BZPower, the Bionicle fansite that I've been a member of since 2004, I think it used to use the same invisionfree system we used to use here, but after some content was lost in 2010 (members there have referred to that event as the "dataclysm") the forums went completely down for months before they were finally able to get the new system up and running, and is still in use to this day. As for the older content (2001 to 2010), they were able to archive it, though sadly it ended up being completely wiped out by a malicious hacker a few years later.

Anyway, I've been visiting both GoF and BZPower every single day for the last few years, so with this announcement that you're looking for a new forum system to use, I guess it's natural that I'd point out the one being used by the other forum I frequently visit.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Hypno on May 22, 2018, 08:58:56 PM
I've done everything I need to do, except save my avatar. But I use it on other sites so that's fine, I'll just download it when I get on my computer and upload it again.

I really feel bad for you guys. First the Photobucket issue, now this. All because of greed and money from the companies involved. :(
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: landbeforetimelover on May 22, 2018, 09:28:55 PM
Quote from: Hypno on May 22 2018, 07:58:56 PM
I've done everything I need to do, except save my avatar. But I use it on other sites so that's fine, I'll just download it when I get on my computer and upload it again.

I really feel bad for you guys. First the Photobucket issue, now this. All because of greed and money from the companies involved. :(
Yes, these are dark days for the internet in general.  This is why I always make sure that I have FULL control over my content and my data.  I would never set up an important website that I didn't have 100% control over.  Even if you're paying a company, they can sell to someone else, or just change their minds and totally screw you over.  This is why I HIGHLY recommend going with a self hosted solution that also allows members to upload content directly to the board, rather than having to hotlink from sites like Photobucket.  Most hosts offer a good amount of storage (sometimes even UNLIMITED storage) for a decent price.  I don't think GOF is large enough to justify a dedicated (or even semi-dedicated) server, but I'd have to see the traffic stats of the site to know for sure.  

I really hope we can save the board, and that we'll look back at this time as when things really turned around and started going in the right direction.  I've never been comfortable with GOF being on a free host like Invisionfree/Zetaboards.  I'm sad to say that my misgivings were well founded.  I knew this would happen one day.  I just can't believe it happened so soon.  But then again, 11 years in the technology industry is like 140 years in real life.  Things always move so fast.

EDIT:  Do you know if member metadata (i.e. post count, join date, etc.) will be preserved in the move to the new platform?
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: rhombus on May 22, 2018, 09:37:48 PM
Quote from: landbeforetimelover on May 22 2018, 08:28:55 PM
Quote from: Hypno on May 22 2018, 07:58:56 PM
I've done everything I need to do, except save my avatar. But I use it on other sites so that's fine, I'll just download it when I get on my computer and upload it again.

I really feel bad for you guys. First the Photobucket issue, now this. All because of greed and money from the companies involved. :(
Yes, these are dark days for the internet in general.  This is why I always make sure that I have FULL control over my content and my data.  I would never set up an important website that I didn't have 100% control over.  Even if you're paying a company, they can sell to someone else, or just change their minds and totally screw you over.  This is why I HIGHLY recommend going with a self hosted solution that also allows members to upload content directly to the board, rather than having to hotlink from sites like Photobucket.  Most hosts offer a good amount of storage (sometimes even UNLIMITED storage) for a decent price.  I don't think GOF is large enough to justify a dedicated (or even semi-dedicated) server, but I'd have to see the traffic stats of the site to know for sure.  

I really hope we can save the board, and that we'll look back at this time as when things really turned around and started going in the right direction.  I've never been comfortable with GOF being on a free host like Invisionfree/Zetaboards.  I'm sad to say that my misgivings were well founded.  I knew this would happen one day.  I just can't believe it happened so soon.  But then again, 11 years in the technology industry is like 140 years in real life.  Things always move so fast.

EDIT:  Do you know if member metadata (i.e. post count, join date, etc.) will be preserved in the move to the new platform?
Oh, don't worry, this forum will be saved.  We will not permit this board to disappear from the Internet.  We have the data and will be moving it to a suitable host when we have some of the code suitably improved.  And after looking at some of the paid hosting companies I am seeing a few that look promising in terms of allowing us to make backups of our data on demand and allowing for unlimited data storage.  So that option is certainly looking promising.  As for user meta data, the post counts and member join dates should remain.  At the current point in the conversion process (phpBB 2.0) that meta data remains.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Littlefoot fan 1990 on May 22, 2018, 10:23:18 PM
I saved the new password I received via PM and I bookmarked the website.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Flathead770 on May 23, 2018, 01:07:10 AM
I'm glad I came back when I did. If I tried searching for the forum again and found it was on another site I might of assumed it died off or something. Looks like you guys have your work cut out for you yet again. Best of luck with the conversion!

I have my password saved and the website bookmarked as well.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: AvestheForumFox on May 23, 2018, 08:31:14 AM
Hey, its been ages since I've posted here (I was once a major admin in the RP forums back in the early days)

I am willing to do something here to help in the migration

I own my own web domain, and I know how to set up  a phpbb forum. I can set you up one there under my domain

there's quiet a bit of a workaround in learning where to use the CSS and whatnot, but its what I've been using for my forums long since I've left this community

let me know if you'd like to start talks on this
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: landbeforetimelover on May 23, 2018, 10:32:11 AM
Oh, I thought I should mention that I'm the one that owns the www.gangoffive.net domain name.  Right now it just redirects to the "unfriendly" URL (z7.zetaboards.com/thegangoffive), but it would be nice if this domain was actually the main domain for the site.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Littlefoot505 on May 23, 2018, 11:10:07 AM
I've fully prepared for the migration. Avatars won't transfer, huh? I just changed mine to one that better reflects how I feel about this whole fiasco.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: rhombus on May 23, 2018, 01:50:34 PM
Quote from: AvestheForumFox on May 23 2018, 07:31:14 AM
Hey, its been ages since I've posted here (I was once a major admin in the RP forums back in the early days)

I am willing to do something here to help in the migration

I own my own web domain, and I know how to set up  a phpbb forum. I can set you up one there under my domain

there's quiet a bit of a workaround in learning where to use the CSS and whatnot, but its what I've been using for my forums long since I've left this community

let me know if you'd like to start talks on this

Thank you for the offer of help.  We greatly appreciate it.  :)  I sent you a PM Aves so please check the inbox.  We definitely need some help on the phpBB 3.0 coding.  The conversion to 2.0 went okay, but the conversion to 3.0 is causing us some major grief.  As for domains, we are still considering our options.  Capacity and the ability to store all of the images (so image sharing sites are no long necessary) will be a major concern.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato) on May 23, 2018, 03:03:13 PM
The Answer's probably no, but will old urls work after the migration? The Darwin's Soldier Wiki links to a lot of GoF pages, wanna know if I'll need to go in and update them after the migration
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: rhombus on May 23, 2018, 03:08:17 PM
Quote from: LettuceBacon&Tomato on May 23 2018, 02:03:13 PM
The Answer's probably no, but will old urls work after the migration? The Darwin's Soldier Wiki links to a lot of GoF pages, wanna know if I'll need to go in and update them after the migration
The answer is a no on that, unfortunately.  I think on-forum links to forum topics will work after conversion, but all off-forum links will need to be updated.  Though this would have happened anyway even if we stayed with TapaTalk.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Sneak on May 23, 2018, 03:23:27 PM
Couple question:
- there will be time period when both new and this old forums are online? If so, then how long?
- Private Messages history will be successfully transfered too?


also, I hope there will be enough time between announcement that everything is ready so we can move and actual time when it happens. I want to be fully ready, having all forum screens (all posts, not mine only) since May 19 to the last day, in case if people won't move it to new forum. :D
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: rhombus on May 23, 2018, 03:28:14 PM
Quote
- there will be time period when both new and this old forums are online? If so, then how long?

Yes, we will keep this forum up with a link to the new forum just in case people come by and wonder what has happened.  This old forum will probably remain up for some time though it would transfer to TapaTalk at some point.

Quote
- Private Messages history will be successfully transfered too?

I do not know at this point.  You should probably use the "download messages" command to copy any PMs just in case they do not transfer over.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Sneak on May 23, 2018, 04:02:46 PM
thank you
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Hypno on May 23, 2018, 04:06:31 PM
Quote from: AvestheForumFox on May 23 2018, 07:31:14 AM
Hey, its been ages since I've posted here (I was once a major admin in the RP forums back in the early days)

I am willing to do something here to help in the migration

I own my own web domain, and I know how to set up  a phpbb forum. I can set you up one there under my domain

there's quiet a bit of a workaround in learning where to use the CSS and whatnot, but its what I've been using for my forums long since I've left this community

let me know if you'd like to start talks on this
It's him... :lol


On a side note, I'll be updating the links to the forum on the LBT wiki as soon as I can. And I'll definitely be editing the History section for the forum's page so that all of this is mentioned there. Also I'm wondering if we should contact some users who aren't that active anymore and inform them about this. I'm not sure if Malte knows.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: rhombus on May 23, 2018, 05:45:59 PM
Quote from: Hypno on May 23 2018, 03:06:31 PM
Quote from: AvestheForumFox on May 23 2018, 07:31:14 AM
Hey, its been ages since I've posted here (I was once a major admin in the RP forums back in the early days)

I am willing to do something here to help in the migration

I own my own web domain, and I know how to set up  a phpbb forum. I can set you up one there under my domain

there's quiet a bit of a workaround in learning where to use the CSS and whatnot, but its what I've been using for my forums long since I've left this community

let me know if you'd like to start talks on this
It's him... :lol


On a side note, I'll be updating the links to the forum on the LBT wiki as soon as I can. And I'll definitely be editing the History section for the forum's page so that all of this is mentioned there. Also I'm wondering if we should contact some users who aren't that active anymore and inform them about this. I'm not sure if Malte knows.
Thanks for your concern, but I have informed Malte and he is aware of the situation.  I also sent out a forum-wide email to everyone who is a non-banned user of the forum.  So hopefully that informs as many people as is possible.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Nick22 on May 23, 2018, 08:17:29 PM
Hi aves. any help you can give us will be appreciated. Good to see you again, its been too long. How are things?
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: AvestheForumFox on May 24, 2018, 09:44:57 AM
Pretty good, Nick :) How about yourself?

I'm part of the Discord chat now so I'll resume my communications there
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: DiddyKF1 on May 24, 2018, 10:07:51 AM
My new password is ready, and so is my avatar, although I had been planning to update it anyway.

It's like I just moved into the Great Valley a few months ago and before I get time to really get settled in to my new home, our valley is suddenly plagued by some sort of natural disaster; either a flood that becomes MUCH worse than in "Journey to Big Water," or our green food being wiped out by tiny creatures. I would probably go for the latter, considering the nature of this issue. And just like that, next thing I hear as I eavesdrop on a struggling dinosaur family ...

"I'm sorry, kids, but I'm afraid we have to move."

"MOVE!?"

I'm sorry you guys have had to go through this. It came as a big shock to me. I wish I could help out in some way, but I'm not very experienced with forums. :(petrie
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Sovereign on May 24, 2018, 10:27:06 AM
I, too, have done the necessary preparations. It really sucks to go through another conversion but I appreciate the work you admins are doing to make things as smooth as possible. There probably isn't any kind of timetable for the conversion process yet?
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: jassy on May 24, 2018, 11:56:31 AM
So I’ve finally saved all that I needed to, except my avatar, but I already have it downloaded, so I’m not worried about it.

I’m sorry that this happened to you guys, and I really appreciate all you guys are doing. This even feels a bit surreal because of how long I’ve known about this place. :( I suppose it’s a good thing that I joined relatively recently, since I didn’t have that much stuff I needed to save.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: rhombus on May 24, 2018, 01:33:22 PM
Okay, everyone, I wanted to give you all an update on the conversion progress.  Right now we have a stable copy of the forum in phpBB 2.0 format (so the data is safe).  In the conversion process avatars and signatures were lost, but the rest of the data remains.  Right now the big issue is converting this stable phpBB 2.0 build into the phpBB 3.0 format.  The last time we attempted this we got the following artifacts everywhere:

(https://s7.postimg.cc/vncrqescr/unknown.png)

So until we can get that error resolved we are kind of stuck.  So if anyone has experience in phpBB 3.0 formatting and thinks that they could help then please contact me or zero-point on Discord.  As soon as we can get the forum into this final format and do about a day of little fixes then we can move it over to a new host.  But until then the forum is in a kind of stasis.

Update: We might have found the issue.  

Quote
Broken non-latin characters: The conversion script assumes that the database encoding in the source phpBB2 matches the encoding defined in the lang_main.php file of the default language pack of the source installation. Edit that file to match the database's encoding and re-start the conversion procedure.

We hope to have a further update on the situation tonight.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: rhombus on May 24, 2018, 02:51:30 PM
Okay, a further update.  I don't think we will be able to attempt another conversion tonight (they take quite a long time) but we will hopefully make another attempt tomorrow.  If the conversion works then we admins will need to recreate the subsections (which are now currently sections in the converted file), re-ban people, and redo some things behind the scenes.  But after that it would just be a matter of finding a willing host that is capable of meeting this forum's needs - unlimited storage, unlimited bandwidth, and the option to directly host images on the board.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: landbeforetimelover on May 24, 2018, 09:26:04 PM
Quote from: rhombus on May 24 2018, 01:51:30 PM
it would just be a matter of finding a willing host that is capable of meeting this forum's needs - unlimited storage, unlimited bandwidth, and the option to directly host images on the board.
Has financing been taken care of?  Who will pay for the hosting?  Will there be ads on the site?  I already own the domain name.  I would be happy to own and pay for the hosting account as well.  

In order to assure that the forums continue to exist even if one or more of the owners die or encounter other difficulties, I recommend putting the board itself either into an existing business, or setting up a new business (a multi-member LLC would be preferable).  We could then support it through a platform such as Patreon.  

People that want things to stand the test of time set them up in a legal structure.  The difficulty would be in making sure that everyone fully understands the working of the business itself, and that enough trusted people are involved in said business.

We're in COMPLETELY different territory than we were before.  We need to prepare and set things up properly.  In the past we were supported by Invision.  Even if some of the admins died or stopped being part of the board, the board would still always exist.  Now that we no longer have the protection and stability of another company, we have to obtain that stability ourselves.  

Basically it's renting vs. owning.  We were renting the board.  Renting a home is a LOT less work and worry.  Owning a home is totally different.  There's legal BS to deal with (taxes, insurance, etc.), and if something goes wrong, YOU have to fix it yourself.  And if only one person owns the home and either dies or walks away from it, it's taken by the state (or in this case, taken by the web host and the site is erased).  

If we don't set this up properly, we'll be in an even more unstable and dangerous position than we were with Invision.  It's too dangerous for only one person to own the board.  It should be owned by a company that has equal members, and supported financially by the members (through Patreon or another source).  If all else fails, the members of the company (most likely the admins) will agree to shoulder the burden of financing the hosting costs.

I own several businesses and I have contacts with an excellent accountant, financial adviser, and asset protection lawyer.  I've been down this road MANY times.  It's not fun, but I'm happy to offer any help I can.  The business needs a bank account, tax ID number, it will need to have its own tax return.  It may seem silly to do all this for a small board like this, but if we want GOF to exist for many years in the future, it MUST be set up properly so that its continued existence isn't dependent on only one or two people.  I know it's tempting to just pawn it off to someone like me or BadPointer that knows web design/development, but I fear this board won't be around a few years from now if things aren't set up properly.

I don't know if I've really said this on the forums here (I try to keep this to myself for the most part), but I'm a pretty wealthy guy.  I own three businesses and several rental properties.  If the board needs financing, I'd be happy to provide it.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: rhombus on May 24, 2018, 10:19:18 PM
We are going to get the forum's code into something workable on the ad hoc server before making a final decision on forum hosting.  That being said, we are actively looking for options on that front, both from you, Aves, and other options.  Our main concern is bandwidth capacity, file storage capacity, and the ability to store all images on the forum (as opposed to using a free image-storing service).  So if you would be willing to host the site (which we greatly appreciate, by the way) then we would need to know if the capacity is there or what financial support would be necessary to secure the necessary upgrades in service.  We can discuss that via PM.  From there we admins can make a determination of the best choice going forward.

As for the legalities, bank account, tax documents, business liability insurance, and like considerations, that is a very good point and it is something for which we will need to make proper arrangements.  I have seen other forums go south very quickly due to the lack of such legal commitments - most notably the downfall of the Debates Unlimited forum which was a fiasco which was amazing and horrifying to behold.  I do have an attorney who could help me through some of this, but if you know people who you think could help us through this then we would appreciate being brought into communication with them.  As for financial obligations, I am willing to unilaterally finance hosting fees for at least the first year, but financial arrangements will need to be worked out after that time.  As will the financial arrangements for filing the paperwork to become an LLC - which will cost $150 in my state for the filing fees.  This is something that we admins will need to discuss - and for which we would appreciate your input - though I think the specific details concerning the legal and financial matters should be discussed in PMs from this point on.

Thank you once again for your support.  :) The support and offers of help from you and others in this thread have been quite heartwarming and show what a wonderful community we have on this forum.  And that is why we will do everything in our power to ensure that it continues for years to come.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Littlefoot505 on May 27, 2018, 09:44:00 AM
I don’t know how much I can help, as while I’ve played around with some PHP, I’ve never done any forum coding or administration. However, I think vBulletin might be a suitable option. I don’t know about the kind of storage or bandwidth it offers, but I’m on a forum called Lea Halalela that’s hosted through vBulletin, and it looks beautiful and has multiple skin options (but not on mobile, due to its TapaTalk-like mobile support), it lets the admins use their own domain without having to redirect, and it supports on-board image hosting.

Here’s a link to the forum:
http://leahalalela.net (http://leahalalela.net)

Even though I’m mad about this whole fiasco all in all, I’m also kind of excited to see what becomes of this board, given what I’m reading here. I’m especially happy about the idea of GOF having its own on-board image hosting, given what happened with Photobucket and Postimg.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: rhombus on May 27, 2018, 12:38:00 PM
Thank you for the suggestion, Littlefoot505.  Though we think that we have found a suitable hosting option, the matter of security, code-fixes, and maintenance is still something that we are actively looking at.  Vbulletin seems to have quite a reasonable price for what we are looking for compared to the competition and the amount of work/time to do all of this on our own.  

Okay, everyone, I wanted to give you an update on the situation as of right now.  We are still working on the conversion from phpBB 2 to 3, and are trying to resolve the problem that we ran in to.  In the event that we are unable to resolve this then we will need to pay a professional to carry out the needed conversion.  With that being said, I think it is important to inform you all of the new situation that we will find ourselves with the migration.  We have several options available to us, and each involves its own share of benefits and drawbacks, in particular when it comes to the costs that would need to be maintained by the membership.  Though we admins will make the final choice, I wanted to present these all to you so that we can get your opinions and ascertain if there is a consensus on the way forward.

If we were to add up the costs this would total something like this:

Fully paid solution (our own paid host, security management, etc)

Initial migration: $35 or higher (we will need someone to upgrade our code for us, but the price he will charge is going to depend on if we can get this converted to phpBB 3.0 on our own or not - a reasonable stipulation considering how much of a pain this process is being)

Initial zBulletin license: $249.

Annual upkeep of the forum: around $480 a year (around $40 a month).

Free option (sigh... again):

The other option would be a free board provider which allows us to keep our backups, like Icyboards, but this would come with its own drawbacks - namely no on-site image hosting and being subject to migration again if they screw us over.

Free solution: $0

Paid image hosting, but free forum:

A final option would be to do the aforementioned, use Icyboards or something else as a free forum solution, and then to use our own paid-image hosting solution.  The costs for this kind of arrangement would be around $120 a year ($10 a month).  Please keep in mind, however, that you get what you pay for. And all of the 'free' forum options that I am seeing are using either ancient code or questionable practices.

So what does everyone think?  Depending on which solution we admins choose there will be costs to support for the forum's upkeep, and we would rely at least in part on donations through the membership to keep us going.  We would probably use Patreon to allow willing members to donate a certain amount per month for this enterprise if we go with our current plan of complete freedom and a paid solution for hosting, security, and code management.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: vonboy on May 27, 2018, 01:06:00 PM
I guess the paid solution would be on whether we could get enough in donations/patreon subscriptions to support it.

Personally, I think we should go the paid option, as I don't know how many people we might lose with further migrations. We won't be able to contact everyone to get ready for a migration, and the lapsed members might not be able to find the new forum, or get their old account working again.

I'd be willing to chip in, too.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Sovereign on May 27, 2018, 03:19:00 PM
While the fully paid solution would easily seem to be the best alternative, I can't help but feel there are some problems in it. Most likely, it would probably require a certain core group of members to donate the same amount every month in order to avoid some sort of constant and awkward money searching. (I'm not sure if I'd be willing to donate myself just yet). However, if such an arrangement could be made, any of the paid solutions could be feasible (10 dollars from the whole community per month doesn't sound too optimistic). But before that, is there any reason to believe Icyboards is going to screw us anytime soon or is the free solution most likely doomed to fail again?
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: rhombus on May 27, 2018, 03:30:00 PM
Quote from: Sovereign on May 26 2018, 02:19:20 PM
While the fully paid solution would easily seem to be the best alternative, I can't help but feel there are some problems in it. Most likely, it would probably require a certain core group of members to donate the same amount every month in order to avoid some sort of constant and awkward money searching. (I'm not sure if I'd be willing to donate myself just yet). If such an arrangement could be made, any of the paid solutions could be feasible (10 dollars from the whole community per month doesn't sound too optimistic). But before that, is there reason to believe Icyboards is going to screw us anytime soon or is the free solution most likely doomed to fail again?
The thing with any free service is that it is not really free, and as ad revenue decreases due to ad-block such services are being bought out by more predatory services (cough... cough... like our current one) which are monetizing data and are more restrictive and less user-friendly.  If we were to go to Icyboards it is quite possible for all we know that TapaTalk could buy them out in a few years.  A paid host would get around this problem.

As for funding that might be something to work on right now before we decide on a particular course of action.  I can provide $15 a month for this enterprise, which is about a third of the amount which is estimated for the eventual forum solution.  A big question though is: how much others would be willing to donate per month?  The good thing about Patreon is that once a person pledges a certain amount per month it is taken out automatically (until they quit, obviously) so constant begging would hopefully not be necessary for the forum. As for Patreon Rewards, I am very hesitant to make special arrangement for Patreon members as it would create two-tiers of members - though I do think a Thank You banner would be given yearly to the forum's Patreons who donate at least $3 a month.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: ddmkm122 on May 27, 2018, 03:34:00 PM
Fully paid is probably best, though I unfortunately wouldn't be able to donate.
This is unfortunate, although I don't feel like we should exactly blame them.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: DarkHououmon on May 27, 2018, 04:02:00 PM
Yeah paid may be the better way to go. Free is nice, but you get what that entails. A paid version could be more secure.

If we go that route, I think I could probably supply $10 a month.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: jassy on May 27, 2018, 07:34:00 PM
Personally, I think paid would be the best option. At least with that, we won’t have to worry about a repeat of this. As for donations, I’m afraid I won’t be able to donate, at least not for now.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Littlefoot505 on May 27, 2018, 08:42:00 PM
I’m pretty much going to echo everyone else: I think fully paid is best all around, but alas, I won’t be able to donate. I am glad though that there won’t be any “free” or “premium” members because of how many of us can/can’t donate (although a “thank you” banner is a nice incentive)
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: rhombus on May 27, 2018, 11:38:00 PM
...And Icyboards just died: https://forums.icyboards.net/showthread.php?tid=11556&pid=78849#pid78849 (https://forums.icyboards.net/showthread.php?tid=11556&pid=78849#pid78849)  So there went that option even if we had half a mind to go that route.

Well, guys, the time is at hand.  We have gotten in touch with the same gentleman who handled the conversion of Fiver's Honeycomb and the Redwall forum and he is willing to assist us through the conversion process. With that in mind, and with an appropriately-sized VPS in place for our hosting needs, we will be transferring the forum data to the new forum on Sunday starting at 10pm Central US Time. The forum will be inaccessible for probably around 18 hours starting at that time, but everything from that time and before will transfer over except for avatars, signatures, the forum skin, and possibly PMs.

So feel free to have fun on the forum tomorrow, everyone, because the migration is about to begin.  :yes
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Flathead770 on May 28, 2018, 12:09:00 AM
Well at least this happened before we ended up going with icyboards. I was in favour of going the paid route myself and I'm willing to chip in as well.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: WeirdRaptor on May 28, 2018, 01:14:00 AM
So, how will we be receiving the link to this place? In our PMs or emails?
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: rhombus on May 28, 2018, 01:17:00 AM
Quote from: WeirdRaptor on May 27 2018, 12:14:18 AM
So, how will we be receiving the link to this place? In our PMs or emails?

The current forum will go back online after the transfer (both to serve as kind of a time capsule and also to allow members who may not know what is going on to get informed) and we will also post links in all of the forum's sections that lead to the new forum.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Mumbling on May 28, 2018, 02:35:00 AM
Quote from: rhombus on May 27 2018, 12:17:44 AM
Quote from: WeirdRaptor on May 27 2018, 12:14:18 AM
So, how will we be receiving the link to this place? In our PMs or emails?

The current forum will go back online after the transfer (both to serve as kind of a time capsule and also to allow members who may not know what is going on to get informed) and we will also post links in all of the forum's sections that lead to the new forum.
Can we arrange with Austin that the gangoffive.net link will redirect to the new forum page asap? :)

I hope the transfer will work out as planned. I'll check in on Discord on Monday to see what's up. Definitely willing to put in a few dollars myself each month.  :TakeMoney

Also many thanks for figuring all of this out and making sure the GoF will live on! It's really appreciated. ^^spike
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Midnight on May 28, 2018, 02:39:00 AM
The transfer will be completed faster than expected. Great job, guys :)
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: rhombus on May 28, 2018, 10:01:00 AM
Quote from: Mumbling on May 27 2018, 01:35:33 AM
Quote from: rhombus on May 27 2018, 12:17:44 AM
Quote from: WeirdRaptor on May 27 2018, 12:14:18 AM
So, how will we be receiving the link to this place? In our PMs or emails?

The current forum will go back online after the transfer (both to serve as kind of a time capsule and also to allow members who may not know what is going on to get informed) and we will also post links in all of the forum's sections that lead to the new forum.
Can we arrange with Austin that the gangoffive.net link will redirect to the new forum page asap? :)

I hope the transfer will work out as planned. I'll check in on Discord on Monday to see what's up. Definitely willing to put in a few dollars myself each month.  :TakeMoney

Also many thanks for figuring all of this out and making sure the GoF will live on! It's really appreciated. ^^spike

No problem.  Ultimately a lot of thanks should go to zero-point and to the gentleman who is now helping us with the transfer. (I am unsure if he wants me to use his name here or not) And yep, as soon as we figure out what the new url is going to be we will get in touch with Austin to see if we can get the gangoffive.net link to redirect to the new page.  :yes The new forum might be a bit ugly for a few weeks while we figure out how to re-skin it and deal with some minor issues, but it will be nice to have the forum in a better, more permanent home.  :)
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Nick22 on May 28, 2018, 10:07:00 AM
I would suggest to those of you- like me. who dont want to lose your pms, that you download them. I have alrready done so with mine.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Littlefoot505 on May 28, 2018, 11:58:00 AM
I’ve done that too. I’ve downloaded my PM’s, I had copied all my posts from after the 18th (although from what I understand, that’s no longer an issue) as well as my signature into a Word document, and I’ve had my old avatar (which I plan to use again after the migration) saved to my computer the whole time.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Mumbling on May 28, 2018, 12:03:00 PM
Quote from: Nick22 on May 27 2018, 09:07:01 AM
I would suggest to those of you- like me. who dont want to lose your pms, that you download them. I have alrready done so with mine.
Whew, going through my PMs since 2008 has been a real roller coaster of emotions. Guess I'll save this somewhere for future ref :)
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: vonboy on May 28, 2018, 12:36:00 PM
oh yeah, didn't even realize it let's you download them all easily in 1 file. Got mine saved, too.

Is it too early to say what option we're using? You say your gonna transfer sometime today, and that you have someplace to put the forum?

Anyway, I could put up $10 a month to help maintain the forum.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: DiddyKF1 on May 28, 2018, 01:51:00 PM
I've downloaded my PMs.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: rhombus on May 28, 2018, 03:15:00 PM
Quote from: vonboy on May 27 2018, 11:36:21 AM
oh yeah, didn't even realize it let's you download them all easily in 1 file. Got mine saved, too.

Is it too early to say what option we're using? You say your gonna transfer sometime today, and that you have someplace to put the forum?

Anyway, I could put up $10 a month to help maintain the forum.
Thank you for your support.  :) We will try to have some kind of donation page set up in the next week.  

As for the new forum, for right now it is planned to be a self-hosted phpBB 3.0 forum, and the creation of the new forum (with all of our posts and topics copied over) will be taking place over about a one day period beginning tonight. This Zetaboards forum will then go back up, with redirection links to the new forum in every section, once the process is completed.

As for the future, we cannot rule out an upgrade to another option (like vBulletin) in the future for security and blog-integration, but I think any solution like that would only be done if we could ensure that it would be seamless, instantaneous from the standpoint of users, able to be funded through our monthly donations, and entail no additional hardship on the part of our members. The last thing that we want after this entire experience is another complicated migration in the future. For the foreseeable future I think the phpBB 3.0 solution will be more than sufficient for this forum's needs.  :yes
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Ducky123 on May 28, 2018, 05:44:00 PM
Just want to let you guys know that you're super awesome! My deep respect for your work to save our beloved forum!  ^^spike  ^^spike  ^^spike  ^^spike  ^^spike
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: The Chronicler on May 28, 2018, 08:45:00 PM
Just to be sure I'm getting this right... This forum will be going down in a few hours, but then will come back up, in addition to the new site starting up, correct? Since we're obviously going to be using the new site, what will become of this site after the move? Will it simply remain as it currently is for an indefinite amount of time?

I guess the main reason I'm asking is because I don't think I now have enough time to do anything about saving my PMs. (Back when the invisionfree site limited us to a max of 200 PMs, I had in fact deleted a few of mine over the years, but tried to keep as many as I could, so some of mine are already long gone.) I don't think there's anything really important that I absolutely must save among my PMs (aside from the new password, which I have saved), but I suppose I would like to know if there's really any deadline that I must save them by, or if there's any possibility that they'll be transferred with the other stuff. I've been a little busy with some other things lately, and with this whole forum change coming upon us so suddenly, I just haven't really had a chance to save much of my content.

Well, if I do end up losing my PMs, at least it wouldn't be the first time I lost some old content from a forum I visit.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato) on May 28, 2018, 09:17:00 PM
Quote from: The Chronicler on May 27 2018, 07:45:21 PM
Just to be sure I'm getting this right... This forum will be going down in a few hours, but then will come back up, in addition to the new site starting up, correct? Since we're obviously going to be using the new site, what will become of this site after the move? Will it simply remain as it currently is for an indefinite amount of time?

I guess the main reason I'm asking is because I don't think I now have enough time to do anything about saving my PMs. (Back when the invisionfree site limited us to a max of 200 PMs, I had in fact deleted a few of mine over the years, but tried to keep as many as I could, so some of mine are already long gone.) I don't think there's anything really important that I absolutely must save among my PMs (aside from the new password, which I have saved), but I suppose I would like to know if there's really any deadline that I must save them by, or if there's any possibility that they'll be transferred with the other stuff. I've been a little busy with some other things lately, and with this whole forum change coming upon us so suddenly, I just haven't really had a chance to save much of my content.

Well, if I do end up losing my PMs, at least it wouldn't be the first time I lost some old content from a forum I visit.
It's really easy, just go to your PMs and click the "Download Messages" button under "Manage Messages". It sends the whole kit-n-caboodle as an htm file which you can open with any browser.

Edit: Actually, if you've archived any messages you'll have to do it up to three times, once each for Inbox, Archive, and Drafts
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Nick22 on May 28, 2018, 09:50:00 PM
You can download your pms Chronicler. Just go to your inbox, clink on the libnk that says download and select all your pms. it should only take a couple minutes. as for this Forum, once the transition is done, it will have links to the new place and will stay up as a time capsule.
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Littlefoot505 on May 28, 2018, 10:09:00 PM
Well, the migration will begin in about an hour, and this will almost definitely be my last post before it happens. Here’s to a smooth transition :cheers
Title: The Great Migration
Post by: Serris on May 28, 2018, 10:13:00 PM
Everything has been archived and prepared for the migration.

Looking forward to our new forum.