Responsibilites of life in the land before time?

[aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)]

I like LBT because it contrasts with my current life so well. I mean, seriously, when it comes to lack of responsibility, work, or hardship, the kids from LBT pretty much take the cake. Whenever I'm forced to do work or study that I really don't want to, I can think, oh well, at least when the weekend rolls around I can watch somebodies that have it easier then me. Sort of a living-the-relaxing-bit-of-my-life-through-them kind of thing, if that makes sense.

[Amaranthine]

Sort of a living-the-relaxing-bit-of-my-life-through-them kind of thing, if that makes sense.

That makes perfect sense  

[Malte279]

I mean, seriously, when it comes to lack of responsibility, work, or hardship, the kids from LBT pretty much take the cake.

Is it so? How many of us have felt that they were responsible for the potential destruction / misery of an entire community (LBT 6, 11) or the possible dead of a friend? How many of us have been at the edge of starvation? How many of us have seen the world around them go to shambles to the degree where it is no longer possible to live there? How many of us have been exposed to the kind of racism where parents prohibited us to play with friends of another skin color or the like?

I think we have a romanticized image of the world of LBT in mind, but it is not a perfect paradise. They do have their share of responsibilities and hardships.

[aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)]

Agreed with the "hardships" part, but none of your rhetorical questions imply responsibility for the kids. They have no chores, they have no jobs, they have no schooling except listening to lectures, they do nothing to earn their food, they are never actively involved in the adult's descion-making processes, any valley-saving moments were not had through responsibility or requirement, they merely made the desicion to do so (what I mean is, nobody ever said, "Littlefoot & co. it's your fault for what happened, so you have to go fix it"). Agreed, it's not a utopia, but it certainly isn't tougher than real life.

[Malte279]

Maybe some of the cases where the characters have to deal with responsible tasks don't come across so much because they always succeed in their tasks. There are many examples though where their failing in responsible tasks set to them could really put a real burden on them. For example the responsibility for the egg stolen by the eggeaters in LBT 2, what if it actually had been broken? Or what about Chomper in the same movie (what if he had died falling into the sinking sand because nobody was there to make sure he doesn't), Cera's responsibility for the twins in LBT 6 is another example, what if the two had been killed by that sharptooth or fallen down from Saurus Rock? There are many similar examples. Many of their tasks and responsibilities are less complex in nature than many of the tasks in our daily lives, but if we fail in some school exam it is a pity, if they fail in making sure nothing happens to someone they are responsible for it would be tragedy. Unlike us the LBT characters don't know that they will never die or fail in such a dramatic manner.
Very often it is very easy for them to find food in the Great Valley, but we have seen them working to get some special treat and unlike them none of us was ever starving either.
Their life is very different as they learn much of what they need to learn by doing it and unlike us they are not forced to learn a lot of stuff which will be of neither use nor interest to them (this of course would make their life appear a lot easier than ours). They do not enjoy many of the advantages which we gain through our work though. Our entire society is so different from theirs that it is almost like comparing apples and pears. They don't have jobs because they don't need jobs. We have totally different requirements and to fulfill those we need jobs. We (GOF members that is) enjoy a higher degree of security than they do. I am not certain if in the long run many of us would be happy if it was possible to life like them as it might not challenge many of our abilities as much as is good for us while at the same time we would not enjoy many of the securities and luxuries we have grown so accustomed to. Many herbivore animals in our real world live just like they do, plenty of food for some time of the year therefore hardly work to acquire food, less food in other parts of the year (potential starvation), constant thread from predators etc. Would we want to change with those animals for the sake of a life without chores?

[aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)]

You're right in that case; I wouldn't want to switch lives with them. However, I still don't believe that they have many real responsibilities. Most of your counter-arguments use "Responsibility" to mean "the reason an event occured, e.g. responsible for the accident." That is one of the right definitions, but not the "responsibility" I'm talking about. I'm talking about "obligated or expected to routinely perform a specified function, e.g. responsible for doing your own dishes" Most of your examples showed them paying the consequences for their actions, but it was not their responsibility to rescue eggs or take care of newborns, they merely chose to. The one valid example you gave was Cera taking care of the twins; that was indeed a responsibility of hers, but I fail to find many other examples of responsiblity bestowed upon the kids.

[DarkHououmon]

You're right in that case; I wouldn't want to switch lives with them. However, I still don't believe that they have many real responsibilities. Most of your counter-arguments use "Responsibility" to mean "the reason an event occured, e.g. responsible for the accident." That is one of the right definitions, but not the "responsibility" I'm talking about. I'm talking about "obligated or expected to routinely perform a specified function, e.g. responsible for doing your own dishes" Most of your examples showed them paying the consequences for their actions, but it was not their responsibility to rescue eggs or take care of newborns, they merely chose to. The one valid example you gave was Cera taking care of the twins; that was indeed a responsibility of hers, but I fail to find many other examples of responsiblity bestowed upon the kids.

I can't really completely agree wtih that. Whether or not the situations used one type of responsibility or the other, it's still responsibility nonetheless.

[Kor]

Also about responsibility we've seen Cera not being able to play with Littlefoot since she has to help her dad clear fallen logs and such, and Ducky & Spike helping their mother move the nest & later Cera watching her little sister.  Also though never shown onscreen it is mentioned that Guido did babysit Tricia so the gang does have certain responsibilities, they are just not shown onscreen very much.  & Ruby promised Chomper's parents to look after him.  & the mission they are both on, finding out how the great valley dinosaurs can work together even though they are different types.

[aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)]

DarkHoumon, all I was trying to say is that I'm only talking about the Responsibility bestowed upon the kids by others (e.g. Mr. Threehorn giving Cera the responsibility of taking care of the kids). I'm not talking about the responsibility they bestow upon themselves (e.g. They decide to go rescue Ducky in LBT 7). The latter they have plenty of, but it is not work; it was a self-conscious choice. The former, where someone actually forces them to do something, is very scarce in LBT, and that is the responsiblity that we humans have a lot of, but they don't.

[Malte279]

I can't quite agree about the choice part. Of course THEY made the decision to go after Ducky, but they had hardly an alternative. If a friend is abducted and possibly in danger I suppose one would feel obliged to help. Some tasks have to be tackled even if there is nobody else to tell you to do just that.

PS: Thank you LettuceBacon&Tomato for coming up with this interesting topic. I really really appreciate this discussion a lot. It has been a while since there has been a good LBT discussion and you certainly broach an interesting question (one by the way to which there may be no ultimate right or wrong answer)

[aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)]

(one by the way to which there may be no ultimate right or wrong answer)

Too right. The best questions usually don't have one. I mean, seriously, how long can you debate over "Is Ducky blue or green?"

Back on topic. Correct, they had no choice but to go after Ducky, but they were not obligated to do so. If they were members of the Great Valley Police Department, they would have responsiblity to rescue her, since would be their job (I'm not sure if a police squad is the best metaphor for this, but I hope you understand what I'm trying to get across). As it were, they behaved more like vigilantes.

That is not to say nobody was obligated to rescue Ducky. The adults, being in charge of the children, had an obligation. The children, merely being her friend, did not.

The distinction I am trying to make is between doing smtg by choice and doing smtg because it is your job or expectation. The "job or expectation" part is what I believe the LBT children do not have.


And, before the debate continues, I need to ask those involved: am I merely repeating myself over and over? Cause I do that in real life, and it bothers the hell out people who debate with me. I try to avoid it, and if you catch me doing so here, let me know. Thanks.

[Malte279]

I guess the question is what we think is the stronger "force" to oblige us to feel it is our responsibility to do something. A set of laws and rules (very few probably exist and they are of course entirely oral in tradition and often rather self-evident in their nature), or the feeling that a friend is in danger. For many people the need to do something would be so much larger in the second case that they might even break existing rules to help the friend (in LBT they do that in LBT 8 as just one of several examples).
There is no very strong hierarchy in the Great Valley. Of course there is that of kids and parents and it is likely that the advice of someone who is considered as wise may have more weight in a discussion than someone who is not; there are no real leaders. This of course differentiates the world of the land before time from our world which is very hierarchically structured. But I suppose that for such a system of far going equality and little to no rules every individual must show a lot more personal responsibility than we do by just complying to our laws and rules. Lack of such responsibility is why I think anarchy and similar state models can't work in human societies at our current state of development.
Maybe I'm getting a bit off topic here, so I better come back to the raw fact that might make life in the Great Valley (as a herbivore) so appealing, namely the apparent lack of work required to feed oneself in that "Cockaigne".
However, I'm not quite sure if there is really no work at all. I don't suppose every plant or leaf in the Great Valley to be edible. We have seen that dinosaurs of LBT seem to have a delicate taste. Rare treats such as tree sweets or sweet bubbles are highly appreciated, Cera has a taste for yellow flowers, Petrie for berries, and Ducky for the tall grass with the big leaves (LBT 5). In LBT 3 a too dry treestar is spit out by Littlefoot. So I don't really think the dinosaurs could just eat anything. It may be comparable to early human societies of gatherers (often combined with hunting which would come close to the "job" of the sharpteeth in LBT), but few of us would desire a life in a society of gatherers and hunters (few such societies still exist). Even in such a simple society there are responsibilities and I suppose the same holds true for the Great Valley.
With the huge offering of food in the Great Valley we might suspect the dinosaurs to lead a very carefree life there, but this is certainly not the case as the "Peaceful Valley" has been running out or low of food three times already (LBT 3, 5, and 8) and it is indicated in LBT 6 that the availability of food very much depends on the season (Mr. Threehorns comment about the time of the falling treestars).

And, before the debate continues, I need to ask those involved: am I merely repeating myself over and over? Cause I do that in real life, and it bothers the hell out people who debate with me. I try to avoid it, and if you catch me doing so here, let me know. Thanks.

I'm repeating some of the stuff I said and so I think do you. Sometimes certain things have to be repeated to sink in, but it is often helpful to think of examples or comparisons to make the own points really clear.  

PS: I split this topic as it has developed into a discussion totally independent from the original thread title.

[aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)]

That would explain how it has more replies than views  :blink:

I like your comparison to hunter-gatherer societies, showing the neccesity of "knowing" what you eat, and their subject to climate changes and/or natural disasters. However, hunter-gatherers have one big difference from our LBT friends: they travel around, and don't remain in one place, usually because they're omnivores and have to follow herds of large game animals. Since the Great Valley is their year-round home, they should learn very quickly what plants you can eat, and what plants to avoid. This makes eating more common sense than hunt-&-peck. Spike has been seen chomping into whatever plant seems to be nearby, and rarely has to travel far to find one that's edible.

But, like you said, this only applies when food is abundant, probably spring and summer. Yes, Mr. Threehorn, in LBT 6 I think, mentioned fall as a time with less food, but I don't recall food supply actually affecting the dinosaurs in that film
(though it might have; I haven't seen that one in a while). He might have been grasping at straws to get the newcomer out of the Valley. And wasn't there  a TV episode showing them living in winter like nothing's happened?

Also, movies 5 and 8 both established 'safe zones' that the inhabitants can go to when food supply requires that they leave the Valley. Zone 8 is shown to work even in the middle of winter.

That's not to say their life is a cherries&cream pie, but I don't think starvation is as big a deal as you say.

[Kor]

Yet it wasn't used in the tv episode The Forbidden Friendship where Tippy's herd appears again.  I don't want to say what else happens in that one since some here may have not seen it yet.

In 8 Threehorn mentions why didn't Mr. Thicknose tell them about the ground sparkles so they could gather leaves, which sounds like they have gathered green food before and stored it, or at least remember doing that in the mysterious beyond.  Though I'd guess they do not do that anymore.

[Amaranthine]

Responsibilities...here's how I see it,

In the Great Valley it's a paradise, but it is also complete isolation from the rest of the world. The kids may grow up to be quite naive and clueless as to what is going on out side of the valley. There responsibilities are less harsh simply because they are kids, but also because they really don't have to worry too much about carnivores taking over their valley and killing everyone.

I do know that in the first movie, the kids grew up in a harsh environment and they had to deal with hardships (i.e. parent's death, separation from loved ones, food being scarce, etc.). And the adults of course dealt with these traumatic incidents as well, however they had to deal with it even longer then their children simply because they have lived longer in those conditions.

The tv series and the movies try to teach the kids who are watching them about lessons they may have to face in real life. Such as dealing with bullies, like in the 3rd sequel. A kid could identify with Little Foot and his pals as they get bullied by Hyp and his friends. These movies and tv series also do teach kids about responsibilities such as telling the truth like in the 11th sequel when Little Foot tells a lie about the tinysaurouses.  

It's true that the LBT kids have to deal with responsibilities in order to set an example to the kids watching the show and to make their lives in the Great Valley a bit more..."realistic" if that's what you want to call it. However, honestly, the dinosaur kids AND the adults in the Great Valley have it A LOT better than any dinosaur that would be outside of the Great Valley.

I hope I'm making sense. But anyway, that's how I see it.

[Cancerian Tiger]

Is it so? How many of us have felt that they were responsible for the potential destruction / misery of an entire community (LBT 6, 11) or the possible dead of a friend? How many of us have been at the edge of starvation? How many of us have seen the world around them go to shambles to the degree where it is no longer possible to live there? How many of us have been exposed to the kind of racism where parents prohibited us to play with friends of another skin color or the like?

I think we have a romanticized image of the world of LBT in mind, but it is not a perfect paradise. They do have their share of responsibilities and hardships.

Amen to that!  The Gang faces many more hardships than those of us in developed countries deal with.  Just because they do not have any chores makes their lives easier than humankind life?  Not by a long shot.  Besides, when a disaster does happen in which the Great Valley is destructed in one way or another, the children do not hesitate to help out.  Now THAT is a big part of being responsible and mature.  BTW, just because we're humans and have to work paying jobs, pay an arm and a leg to survive, have laws prohibiting racial discrimination, and have the security of being safe from the elements and having the military forces needed to protect us(many folks take all of this for granted) does not make it fair for anyone to berate the Gang simply because they do not share the same lifestyle as humankind :angry:.  Also, the children are more mature and less dense than the adults, for they take on what should be adult responsibilities(i.e. rescue operations, searching for a food source) while the adults quarrel and solve absolutely nothing.  If anything, the Gang are far more responsible and mature than children and even some adults in our world.  The Gang establishes morals and life-learning lessons for folks of all ages, not how to give folks one more reason to bash LBT or the Gang themselves :angry:.  I'm sorry if I'm coming across as a jerk, but Malte has made a very good point about things we don't have to worry about, and I for one feel the same way -_-.  The children are anything but lazy, and are certainly anything but irresponsible <_<.

[aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)]

I hope I'm making sense. But anyway, that's how I see it.

To quote you at the top of this thread, that makes perfect sense  

[aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)]

Wow, "berate," "bash," and TWO frowny faces in one post. Yikes!

Cancerian Tiger, I sure hope I didn't sound as if I was going on a tirade like that. Malte and I are just having an enjoyable discussion. I doubt either of us are taking it personally or attempting to attack/protect the entire series.

You are right, Malte has a good point in that post, yet the nature of a discussion is that one also posts their own opinion, and begin countering/supporting each other. It seems I didn't make it clear that Malte is giving good arguments as well. Some I've particularly liked:

1)the post you've quoted
2)his explanation of why they rescued Ducky
3)his comparison to hunter-gatherer societies

You'll notice that some are so good, I've weaseled my way around them, unable to come up with an equally good counter-argument (just don't tell him).

The other nice thing about discussions is they can slowly evolve away from the original discussion. Notice how the first few posts centered around the Gang's level of responsiblity. It has since morphed seamlessly through several generations, and is currently an exploration of how the inhabitants find food and/or shelter during hard times. If the debate continues, it will probably change again.

So you see, these discussions aren't fights, they're more like an enjoyable way to talk about a subject we all know about and think is interesting.

[Malte279]

Absolutely right LettuceBacon&Tomato
These discussions are no fights about who is right or wrong (though people of course will try to make their view of things clear) and they are certainly no bashing of LBT (we would be a strange lot if we were bashing LBT all the time while using so much of our lifetime on LBT). I appreciate other opinions a lot.
As for the subject of this thread I think the responsibilities of most 21st century humans and LBT dinosaurs are extremely different in nature so that it is very difficult to compare the two. The responsibilities of the LBT dinosaurs may sometimes be less complex than that of humans (just once I want to see an LBT dinosaur write 20 pages essays with footnotes for the university ) but at the same time the result of them messing up would be a lot worse (bad mark in that essay? That's annoying. Failed in protecting Dinah and Dana from going into the mysterious beyond? That's perilous. Failed to recover Dinah and Dana from the Mysterious Beyond? That's tragedy!).

[Cancerian Tiger]

I apologize and did not intend to instigate any arguments or make anyone feel bad.  All are entitled to their opinions.  I perceived it as comparing the Gang to humankind in regard to responsibility and took it the wrong way  .