The Gang of Five
The Land Before Time => Cancelled and old projects => LBT Projects => LBT Multiplayer RPG Project Discussion => Topic started by: action9000 on October 03, 2009, 02:24:30 AM
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We have introduced a new stat into the game, along with the new Sprint controls, called Energy. I just wanted to see how everyone thinks it should work!
First of all, yes, now we have Energy AND Stamina. The basic difference is that Energy is short-term and Stamina is long-term. Energy recovers from resting and not using abilities that consume it. Stamina is restored by eating and drinking and runs out very gradually over a very long time. Even with the use of abilities, Stamina will typically be designed to last for an hour or more in good conditions, whereas Energy can run out in a few seconds by using your most intense abilities. It also recovers in a matter of seconds, though.
Energy is consumed by using abilities. Stamina is also consumed by using abilities but also by not eating, travelling through harsh landscapes, etc. Stamina affects the effectiveness of your character and when it hits zero, you start losing HP gradually.
My question is, what should happen when we run out of energy? By Sprinting, energy is gradually used up until it hits zero. Right now, your energy won't start to recover until you *release* the Sprint key and here's why:
My idea right now:
When energy hits zero, *do not* disable the ability, but instead let the player keep the Sprint function active (if that's the ability we're using). The catch is that we're now in "push yourself to the absolute limit" mode and you'll only want to do this when absolutely necessary.
When using energy-consuming abilities when out of energy, you have a chance on every game frame to lose a small amount of stamina (or even HP!), which could eat up your stamina supply much faster than normal. This lets you call on this extra bit more speed or whatever you're doing if absolutely vital, however it comes at a large cost so it's really only for emergencies.
Do you like this idea? Is there anything you don't like? Do you have any ideas of your own? Lemme know! :D :)
Thanks!
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thats weird, my vote didn't count there. Oh well, i picked the "chance to drain stamina one", for pretty much the reasons already mentioned. Also, some dinos could have or learn some skills that might reduce this effect. Or have it so it doesn't drain your health (if it drains hp or stamina). Anyways, thats just what i thought of in about a minute, i might think about this a bit more.
[EDIT] There we go, my vote got added :DD
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I think it ought to be ensured that the energy bar is something that one really must keep in mind when using it up to the limits. In many games I know one doesn't really have to care about it one bit. In those games it comes down to sprinting and fighting until the stamina bar is at point zero and then... sprint on and continue fighting with no notable change whatsoever :confused
In other cases the energy bar slowly recovers and you can start a kind of stop and go kind of sprint that is somewhat annoying. So my suggestion is this, you need a certain minimum of energy to actually start an action. For example you can't start sprinting unless you have at least 10% of your energy left (otherwise you get a note telling you that you are still out of breath or something to that effect). You can of course use up your energy to 0% but not start an energy consuming action below a certain point of the energy bar. Also I think it might be interesting to actually have the character disabled from really doing anything once the bar hits 0%. The character could drop down panting which will slightly accelerate the recovery over the recovery speed of a character who is standing around. At 3 or 5% the character would automatically get up again.
I agree though that this could be awfully annoying when being chased by a sharptooth (though clearly this is realistic when you are exhausted while a sharptooth is on your heels). My suggestion is that in clearly live threatening situations (and only in them, not just for the fun of it) one can enter a mode in which one will drain additional stamina (which might be drained at a higher speed while sprinting anyway) and also Health points if stamina is already bellow 50%.
I think that way the effects of physical exhaustion which are presented in many land before time movies could be simulated adequately.
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I wouldn't want to accidentally waste my stamina when I'm doing nothing but trying to get somewhere quickly when I'm too lazy to walk. If anything it should only be an option, something you can turn on when you need it.
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I wouldn't want to accidentally waste my stamina when I'm doing nothing but trying to get somewhere quickly when I'm too lazy to walk. If anything it should only be an option, something you can turn on when you need it.
That would be unfair if you were running for sharptooth and forgot about that option, wouldn't it?
I've got no opinion on this matter, but will keep reading the opinions of others.
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I like the idea that after burning through the energy bar, you will start eating away at the stamina bar at a regular pace and eventually the HP at a regular pace.
Basically, it will serve as "war emergency power".
The fact that continued use of the ability burns away the stamina and HP at a regular rate after you deplete the energy serves as a strong deterrent to use "overdrive" constantly.
Also, could we make it so that the stamina and energy bars could be increased by leveling?
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Thanks for your input, everyone! Any more thoughts are still welcome!
So my suggestion is this, you need a certain minimum of energy to actually start an action.
I thought about doing this and after hearing you state it as well, I think I just might do that. :)
What we could do is have the Energy meter itself change colour while in the state that it can be consumed but no activity can be started. Say, yellow for high-moderate energy and red for low energy, where activities can only be started in the yellow condition.
Instead, we could have the minimum energy requirement be different from ability to ability, which probably makes more sense, actually.
My suggestion is that in clearly live threatening situations (and only in them, not just for the fun of it) one can enter a mode in which one will drain additional stamina (which might be drained at a higher speed while sprinting anyway) and also Health points if stamina is already bellow 50%.
I actually like this one very much, Malte! In some circumstances, the player could be put into an "adrenaline" state, where they can use more than 100% of their energy, at the expense of stamina and HP as you mentioned.
Also, could we make it so that the stamina and energy bars could be increased by leveling?
Yep, for sure! I was planning on doing that, and of course your type of dino would affect how they would increase and by how much.
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I just had another random idea:
What if it is *only* possible to get to the "adrenaline" state (where you can use energy-consuming abilities to energy levels below 0%, with a penalty to your stamina) if you have a minimum amount of stamina?
By this I mean, if you're being chased and/or in a situation where adrenaline could turn on, it will only activate if you have at least, say, 25% of your stamina (arbitrary number at this point). If you're below 25% stamina, you will be physically unable to get the strength needed to push yourself and it simply won't happen.
Continuing this thought, perhaps you will still get the adrenaline status, but you will get different (or just fewer) effects from it if you're below that minimum stamina threshold.
We could have the adrenaline status have a few effects on your character and I suspect many of them will be dependant on your current Stamina. It could also be based on your character's level and any skills they've developed throughout the game. In other words, you could actually gain more effects from adrenaline as you progress through the game, giving you that much more freedom (accompanied by the dangers of overusing these newfound effects).
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I came up with a plan to eliminate the "let's use Energy to sprint until it's drained, let it fill up a bit and use it some more, just so we can travel faster" annoyance that exists in a number of games:
Simply: Use adrenaline once again. Some abilities will require you to be in the Adrenaline state to be able to use them. Sprint will be one of them. You will not be able to activate your Sprint unless some event has driven your character's adrenaline up high enough that they'll be able to sprint.
This will give you the ability when it's designed to be used, but remove the fact that you have to "pulse" sprint on and off during the entire game, just so you can travel a bit faster.
How does this sound?
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That sounds really good action, especially considering the fact that sprinting is by definition the fastest one can push themselves to move, which is something you probably wouldn't normally do unless you were in a state of extreme danger or something.
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Also, I think that stamina should start decreasing gradually once energy hits 0. And (if I recall correctly) since HP starts draining once stamina hits a certain level, it would create a chain, instead of jumping straight to HP drain.
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Also, I think that stamina should start decreasing gradually once energy hits 0. And (if I recall correctly) since HP starts draining once stamina hits a certain level, it would create a chain, instead of jumping straight to HP drain.
Okay yeah for sure, that makes sense. Good point.
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Yeah I came up with the chain idea first but it does not matter. Either way it makes more sense to drain energy --> stamina --> HP.
Can we also have a "pace meter"? Basically it sets how fast your character will move:
Walk - slow movement speed, low drain
Trot - medium movement speed, medium drain
Jog - fast movement speed, high drain
Sprint - fastest movement speed, highest drain (only usable in adrenaline mode)
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Yeah I came up with the chain idea first but it does not matter. Either way it makes more sense to drain energy --> stamina --> HP.
Aye, right you are. My bad, sorry!
Can we also have a "pace meter"? Basically it sets how fast your character will move:
I have been trying to come up with a nice way to help the player control their speed more effectively and I think I really like an idea like this. It's the most functional I have heard so far and we'll definitely consider it. Thanks for the idea!
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Are there any ways to increase stamina and energy? I know resting is good for one, eating is good for the other... are there any sort of "high-energy foods" or "special resting" places (like the mud pools) which can help one or the other recharge faster?
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I can see mud pools working to increase stamina a bit because it decreases muscle cramps and fatigue.
Certain plants could also provide a short burst of energy (coffee or coca plants?)
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Well... maybe not coca! :blink:
Possibly the mud pools, though... or some other things. The warm pools from movie 8 might work too.
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Hey, Deimos from TWV chewed Coca leaves (or something like it) but TWV is a more "adult" interpretation so how about we do not do that?
But we do not have to say it is coca just insinuate that it is (maybe the dinosaurs do not actually eat it but they place a wad of it in their mouths?).
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Maybe some fruit or something? Hmm...
Maybe something that relaxes the characters is good for their stamina?
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The common steroids may help. I take them because my life depends on them and they can make me really hyper.
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I don't think they have steroids in the land before time...
Although that warm mud looks like it was drugged... :lol
Maybe the characters get more energy by basking on a rock in the sun or something...
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Of course that mud is drugged!
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Maybe some fruit or something? Hmm...
Maybe something that relaxes the characters is good for their stamina?
I was thinking food could play some sort of 'Fantasy potion' role.
Eating shouldn't immediately restore stamina, but eating enough food puts your character into a 'well fed' state, and then when he or she is idle, or resting... they gain stamina much faster. This would encourage eating, but not make it a over-necessary part of the game. I can't imagine everyone wanting to have to go and eat every hour or so.
You could also have sour food like lemons that really perks up a character, and spicy food that gives you an extra energy kick. The downside is that you could only eat so much before becoming full, or some types of food could upset your stomach, making it so you can't eat special foods for a while.
Water could also play a part, helping upset stomachs perhaps?
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Well I imagine in the Land Before Time world it would never really be hard at all to find something to eat, unless you were venturing into a barren and desolate area. It's true that when games focus too much on survivability, they can become more irritating than fun, but we also have to remember that these are dinosaurs we're dealing with, not humans :p It's a little more complicated for humans to find food (e.g. hunting animals and making a fire to cook the meat, or searching for some kind of fruit), while herbivores can eat just about any plant.
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Also, we don't have the "inventory" factor to deal with so much. We just eat on the run, so to speak.
The idea is that eating will be quick, easy and painless as long as you're in an area that has food. Once you're in a desolate region, suddenly the fact that there *is* nothing to eat becomes an obstacle and a challenge to overcome. This is more what we're going for than the usual "you have to eat just because you have to eat" concept.
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Okay, I see what you mean. In that case, I'm for stamina being consumed when energy runs out. Seems a bit more realistic, and a bit more challenging when you have to think about if you want to use your abilities in this state... especially when you're out in the barren areas.
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Well I imagine in the Land Before Time world it would never really be hard at all to find something to eat, unless you were venturing into a barren and desolate area. It's true that when games focus too much on survivability, they can become more irritating than fun, but we also have to remember that these are dinosaurs we're dealing with, not humans :p It's a little more complicated for humans to find food (e.g. hunting animals and making a fire to cook the meat, or searching for some kind of fruit), while herbivores can eat just about any plant.
As we had seen in LBT 1 most of the world is barren.
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It seems a lot less barren in the sequels... especially movies nine and ten.
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It could be that whatever disaster hit the areas of the mysterious beyond that we have seen in the first film has started to recover as seen in the later sequels. Or at least some areas.
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It seems a lot less barren in the sequels... especially movies nine and ten.
Yep but the mysterious beyond is still largely barren.
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It seems a lot less barren in the sequels... especially movies nine and ten.
I like to think that is because the movies are trying to be more 'Kids friendly'. Kor has a point, though. In time, those barren areas hit by disaster would certainly recover... but I'd also like to think that deserts would stay deserts, for example. Climates can take hundreds of years to recover.
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They never stated that the entire world except the Great Valley was turning bad... although change was mentioned... and too much of the non-Great Valley areas were shown as green to believe that nothing else was still intact.
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True but I think we are getting off the topic.
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Good point. When energy is used up, I can see stamina being used, if only for game purposes.