The nature of many fanfictions

[Malte279]

Hi!
Again I broach a topic which is difficult to deal with. Though this is not my intention it may set some of you against me, as I cannot totally deny a certain aversion against the topic I want to address, an aversion which I hope won't appear as arrogance to those of you who oppose my view.
Reading through the land before time fanfictions at fanfiction.net and elsewhere I sometimes feel really very, very sad at times. It is because the huge majority of the stories there seems to have little in common with the land before time except for the maincharacters and sometimes the locations.
Many of the land before time fanfictions I've read so far include sex affairs among the characters, gory massacres, invasions of humans, or zombies, or aliens from outer space, or all of them at once; these fanfiction may contain whole dialogues from other movies (e.g. Star Wars) or actions such as Littlefoot fencing with a sharptooth using a stalagmite as a sword. There are fanfictions that culminate in the characters singing songs such as "My heart will go on" or "Only Time" whose connection to the land before time I really don't get.
Few people ever came up with stories that didn't contain any of the things listed above. It makes me wonder if people would approve of these things appearing in an actual land before time movie. Why is it, that the majority of fanfiction writers won't try to write a story within the certain limitations provided by the early (or even within the wider range provided by the later) land before time movies?
I hope this is not taken as an offense, and authors of such fanfictions who know me better will hopefully know that I really like them personally and don't mean to have a go at them. Still it really saddens me to read these stories and it makes my wonder why so few give it a try to write a story which could realistically be made a movie

[WeirdRaptor]

Those writers ren't satisfied with what Disney is dishing out to us with allt he sequels (don't deny that Disney is involved, or else there wouldn't be so many sequels). Its that some of them lack the writing skills and imagination to get away from the films very well.

I have half a mind to make my own series about LBT that is about what happens after they reach the Great Valley at the end of the first one. Basically, my own idea of a collection of sequels that are not just 'darker' versions of what we have. Just new and original ideas altogether of how their Post-Great Valley Arrival adventures could have been instead.

[Petrie]

Well, my opinion on the matter is a fanfiction is a story written by the one who creates it giving them the freedom to write it based on the story they're after.  It does not have to stick true to the plot or places they are basing it on.

[Mirumoto_Kenjiro]

In my opinion, there are many different factors to these "distinct" LBT stories in any fanfiction.  Most of the stuff in the fics you mentioned are by people who writes them depending on the mood they're in or in the style those people desire.  Some of the stories containing sexuality, violence, or any other not-for-children material are by those would write any fanfiction in that method, since I have seen Pokemon, Digimon, and Disney stories written that way (I fell into a few websites that were too much for my tender virgin eyes    (Seriously, I went into them on accident)).

It is really hard nowadays to find someone who writes fanfictions of something they really like.  The only story I read so far in fanfiction.net that has a strong grasp to LBT was "The Big Quarrel" by you, Malte.  I haven't read ALL the LBT stories, but yours is number one in my book    .

[Malte279]

^ Thanks a lot. The only thing is that it is rather poor English (I translated it before I got deep into English language) and that it doesn't contain any new characters. I never put the end of the story up at fanfiction.net. If you are interested in this I can send you the whole story and if you like to a second one I finished as well.

I guess I'm sort of conservative about LBT stories. I just can't imagine Littlefoot turning more violent than we have seen him in the movies. The story I'm writing right now, does contain violence. It even contains the death of a character (none of the characters we know from the movies of course) and it mentions cases of violence which happened before the begining of the story (e.g. the Pterano incident). Still, reading the display of violence in many fanfiction.net LBT fanfictions I think that I'm dealing with it in a different manner.

[Mirumoto_Kenjiro]

The ending wasn't put up...?  :blink:  I think I overlooked that...  And please send!  

That is understandable.  I can't see any violence in Littlefoot myself, that's why I put the action with some new characters.  But please, send the story once you're finished!!  

[Malte279]

Hi Mirumoto_Kenjiro!
I'll gladly send you the stories I've finished so far. I just need to know your email address. In case you don't want to post your email address here in the forum, you can send your address to me via email. My address is malte279@t-online.de. As I'm tied to a computer with a very slow connection right now it may take a few days (until) I come past a computer with a faster connection, before I can send you the stories, but I shall do so as soon as possible.

[WeirdRaptor]

WHich reminds me, Malte. I received your's, but it was all in computer gibberish. I cannot translate that.

[Malte279]

Computer gibberish? You mean it was disfigured into a chaos of meaningless signs? I sent it as a zipped Word document. Do you use microsoft word? Maybe it is a result of the zipping and unzipping, but I never had that problem before. I shall try to send it to you again, as soon as I get to a computer with a faster connection than the one I'm using right now.

[Petrie]

Files can grow corrupted over time.  I looked at a document I did four years ago and it's already "breaking down" or turning into computer gibberish in the middle of it.  Thankfully I have a hard copy so I knew what was written there.

[Mirumoto_Kenjiro]

My email addy is soulblade@earthlink.net .  And I have Microsoft Word so it shouldn't be much of a problem.

[Mirumoto_Kenjiro]

Oh yeah.  Make sure that the topic of the email is LBT or Land Before Time or Fanfictions.  My box gets loaded with spam, so if you already sent to me, I might have accidently deleted it.  :unsure:  :blink:

[Malte279]

The original topic of this thread was very quickly replaced by something else. However, the issue is still quite current and in both the N54 and the GOF messages have been posted of lately which provide new fuel for the debate about originality of land before time fanfictions. I don't mean to offend anyone by posting the following message in the hope to reincinerate the debate but I feel I cannot keep what I'm going to write to myself. Screaming (LBT 3) doesn't do for me.
The huge majority of land before time stories contains so many elements that are really not from the land before time. Elements such as:
The intestines of Cera's Dad scattered over the floor of the Great Valley, Littlefoot slaughtering a whole tribe of sharpteeth by stabbing them with a stalactite (reciting Anakin Skywalkers speech from Episode two afterwards), Aliens from outer space attacking and murdering about each and everyone, zombies attacking the Great Valley, humans all over the place, Littlefoot and the others brought into our time to fight Godzilla or to be involved in the attack on Pearl Harbor, cases of rape...

I mean come on! Not a single one of the elements mentioned above is a product of my fantasy. Every single one of them is part of either a land before time fanfiction or of messages in which people announce their writing of such stories. I know I have not the right to tell anyone what to write and what not to.
But still, even with the strongest attempts to see this from an objective point of view, I cannot believe what I see.
Folks, is this really the land before time to you?
Is this what the land before time means to you?
Is this the gist of the land before time?

I doubt anyone can resonably argue the fact that I do have a good reason to feel frustrated and sad at reading such stuff.  
Where have all the treestars gone?
Is there anyone out there who feels he or she is willing and able to write a land before time story that could easily be made into a movie without contradicting previous movies or violating the atmosphere created by these previous movies?
I want to emphasize again that I am fully aware it is not for me to tell people what to write, but I would be dishonest if I just smiled and nodded at all those stories. I am no good pretender. And I think if you are honest to yourselves you too will have to admit that fanfictions of the said content are no real land before time stories. But just something done to elements of the movies.

[Raptor]

Yeah, all this sci-fi junk sickens me. I mean, we can have action without all that!
Look at the first flim. You can't tell me that thoese scenes with the Shaptooth didn't
have action. If you want action, throw in a nice Sharptooth attack or somthing, and
please, don't make it a gory massicur (sp) with blood and guts flying all over the
place. There's examples of this insanity right here an this site. Look at the LBT
RPGs (especily the first and sceond) and you'll find halfway through they turn into
somthing you'd see on the Sci-Fi channel. "The Great Lake" managed to make
futher, but near the end, they had to through in not only the extinction, but
humans trasporting them to the future. I almost burst out laffing when I saw that.
So next time you make an RPG or a story, try to keep it to LBT, and whatever you
do, don't add Star Wars.



@\Raptor/@

[Petrie.]

Hear hear, Malte.    What some have created are creative mixtures of elements, that don't fit into one category or another, but make their own.  Therefore, that particular piece of writing cannot be truly considered a "true story about blah blah blah" because there are pieces being brought in from other sources that are unlikely to be found in the original writer's thoughts.

I did try a LBT story once (once mind you many years ago) and I blended elements from LBT and the TV series, Captain Planet (you know, with those rings and all that use natural elements of the earth).  Could I have made it strictly LBT and forget about these abilities to work with nature and all?  Sure....but without them I saw my story as dull and lifeless....that addition brought something unique, though it would fall under Malte's critical review.

Surely, not everyone can be pleased, but for some blending elements is their way of making their imprint on the story, using elements that have some meaning to them, even if it changes what could be found in the official script or film.

[pokeplayer984]

I can understand what you mean exactly with such a term.  However, one must understand that the more mature writers out there put in violence and swearing as a way to make the fic more 3D.

When it comes to violence and language, it's got to have the right mood.  Otherwise, you just end up giving such bad material a bad name.

High description with violence has become a common practice among fanfics.  Advanced writers understand something though, some readers lack imagination.  As such, no matter what the situation, high description is key.  I know it may be hard to believe, but it is true that some people have NO imagination.  Just a simple description of the charcter dying is rather lacking.  In order for one to understand how the charcter died, they must describe it in its fullest content.  It must also be to the letter and to the point.

It's true guys.  Just one person who said he had NO imagination started the whole increase in description thing.

However, there is one element I have yet to see maturly done on... Sex.

I have read many sex fics and basically, they disgust me.  It's not because there's sex in it, it's basically because of how its done.  All of which I have read are done rather immaturly.  Sure, they're descriptive and many come out of love, I'll give them that, but with how they describe it and all, its just not right.  They end up going too far as it were with description.  Doing one maturely is very difficult, but highly possible.  It takes full understanding of what it is and the right motive to really make it work.  With sex, there's only so much one can handle.  Also, it can't be done robotic like.  It has to be done as if only love, instinct and a higher purpose made it happen. (In all truth, sex is only right if it's to start a family.  One, mind you, that will be raised by love.) It is true that I will be putting a sex scene into my upcoming fic, but understand that it will revolve around these three elements and that it's purpose is all for good and nothing more.

In short, I allow such elements for fics.  I leave the writer to their imagination and let them do what they want.  However, if they don't do it right, they just disgust me and I lose all intrest in the end.

Trust me, a good fic can be made with everything that seems to destroy the basic criteria of the subject it revolves around, it just needs to suit the reader's tastes.

[Malte279]

Note that I am not trying to advocate for banning violence from LBT. The land before time is not utopia. There has been violence ever since the original movie and some of the scenes in the movies are very dark and nasty actually (for example the execution of two unconscious sharpteeth who were burried alive by Littlefoot's grandfather and Doc while the kids were cheering. After the lessons they learned in LBT 2 and 5 I would at least expect them not to cheer about this cruel murder of defenseless).
However, there is a difference between telling the sad story of the death of Littlefoot's mother, or such thrilling scenes as various combats with sharpteeth throughout the series and the description of how (quite litteraly) the inside of Cera's Dad is turned out! I do see a clear difference here.
There is a difference between describing violence and its consequences for story purposes and indulging in it in what seems a kind of mental murderous frenzy.
The story I'm writing at the moment does contain violence. It does contain the death of a character, and it does mention the deaths of characters who died before the story began (e.g. the dinosaurs who went with Pterano on the way to the Great Valley).
If it comes to involving humans, science-fiction characters, travels through time etc. I really don't think it got anything to do with the land before time anymore and yes I do think that those who are unable to work without any of these elements in a land before times story are lacking fantasy and the ability to work with what they got.
There is so much potential left for land before time stories that do not contain elements that don't belong into LBT. And I'm talking of long, good stories here, which are full of new ideas rather than being mere repetitions of what we have seen in the movies already. Why is it that nobody tries to write such stories?

As for sex in the land before time stories, I know there are many such stories "focused" on this and I agree with you about them being rather disgusting. The fact that puts me of from considering sexual descriptions in the land before time is that the characters are KIDS! Would not describing anything "going on" between them (anything more physical than what is going on between Ali and Littlefoot) be close to pedophile fantasies? Kids are taboo!!!
I also seriously doubt that anything between the grownup LBT characters could be involved for "purposes" different from the purposes of the writers of the stories you described as disgusting yourself.
But apart from my stand on this in combination with the land before time I think that I think more liberal about sexuality than you do.
I definitely disagree with your statement:  

In all truth, sex is only right if it's to start a family.

But this I think is a topic for the After midnight forum rather than this one.

[pokeplayer984]

Note that I am not trying to advocate for banning violence from LBT. The land before time is not utopia. There has been violence ever since the original movie and some of the scenes in the movies are very dark and nasty actually (for example the execution of two unconscious sharpteeth who were burried alive by Littlefoot's grandfather and Doc while the kids were cheering. After the lessons they learned in LBT 2 and 5 I would at least expect them not to cheer about this cruel murder of defenseless).

Indeed, I must agree with you all the way that LBT isn't one of those peaceful movies out there.  They give kids a relistic view and make it fit the tastes of overprotective parents.  I too agree that such elements of darkness have been put in, however, they are just the right way as to not really affect kids. (Oh, and btw, the difference there is that those two in 6 tried to have them for a meal.  While the ones in 2 & 5 actually protected them from the danger.  I'm pretty sure that the kids have a basic idea of which are their friends and which are their enemies.  And what happens to enemies in kid movies that would otherwise destroy you?  They die.)

However, there is a difference between telling the sad story of the death of Littlefoot's mother, or such thrilling scenes as various combats with sharpteeth throughout the series and the description of how (quite litteraly) the inside of Cera's Dad is turned out! I do see a clear difference here.
There is a difference between describing violence and its consequences for story purposes and indulging in it in what seems a kind of mental murderous frenzy.

When it comes to death, you've got to give it the realistic view of it being good or bad.  You've got to give to the reader the cause of the death. (Which in some cases is your insides being pulled out.) One thing I've seeing missed though is the affected charcter's view of witnessing a death.  Indeed, I must agree that there seems to be no purpose of the violence with such stories, except for them to basically exist.  There are some cases I can forgive, (ie killing someone as a means of defense.) but please, don't do it pointless, it's just not worth it. (I've had such a similar experience.)

The story I'm writing at the moment does contain violence. It does contain the death of a character, and it does mention the deaths of characters who died before the story began (e.g. the dinosaurs who went with Pterano on the way to the Great Valley).

Well, all I ask is that you do it right.  Otherwise, you can expect me to just not read it. (I don't flame someone for what they do in a fic, though I sometimes have a tendancy to actually want to kill them for such a thing.)

If it comes to involving humans, science-fiction characters, travels through time etc. I really don't think it got anything to do with the land before time anymore and yes I do think that those who are unable to work without any of these elements in a land before times story are lacking fantasy and the ability to work with what they got.
There is so much potential left for land before time stories that do not contain elements that don't belong into LBT. And I'm talking of long, good stories here, which are full of new ideas rather than being mere repetitions of what we have seen in the movies already. Why is it that nobody tries to write such stories?

Well, like I said, even with such things you can make a good story, regardless.  One such fic I've read is Pokemon Master. (A Pikachu turning into a sword?  Yeah right!) Despite everything within a story that is meant to turn away readers who stick too close to the basic nature of the subject, the writer did such a good job, that it hardly mattered.  And get this, it was the first Dark Pokemon fanfic made.  It had everything that could basically destroy it and made it live. (That's a big accomplishment in the end.)

As for sex in the land before time stories, I know there are many such stories "focused" on this and I agree with you about them being rather disgusting. The fact that puts me of from considering sexual descriptions in the land before time is that the characters are KIDS! Would not describing anything "going on" between them (anything more physical than what is going on between Ali and Littlefoot) be close to pedophile fantasies? Kids are taboo!!!
I also seriously doubt that anything between the grownup LBT characters could be involved for "purposes" different from the purposes of the writers of the stories you described as disgusting yourself.
But apart from my stand on this in combination with the land before time I think that I think more liberal about sexuality than you do.

Well then, I must say that all the charcters that are involved with the sex thing are all grown up in my fic.  When it comes to sex, it must be done maturely.  You only attract perverts if you put in something like that with no purpose whatsoever.  With sex, either make there be a soul or forget it.

I definitely disagree with your statement:
QUOTE  
In all truth, sex is only right if it's to start a family.

But this I think is a topic for the After midnight forum rather than this one.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, that was a religious opinion of mine taken a bit too far.  Very sorry there.

[Nick22]

That's alright pokeplayer. This is indeed a difficult subject to discss, because so many people have strong opions on it. But I agree, sex is not something that should be in the LBT,after all, the main characters are children, any any relationship between them is purely innocent and 'freindly'. i think that those who try to mature the LBT characters so they can engage in 'intimate' relations, are twisting the story to suit thier 'older' desires.

[Malte279]

Indeed, I must agree with you all the way that LBT isn't one of those peaceful movies out there.

Well, all I ask is that you do it right. Otherwise, you can expect me to just not read it. (I don't flame someone for what they do in a fic, though I sometimes have a tendancy to actually want to kill them for such a thing.)

I beg your pardon, but I think we are about to switch roles. I was the one granting the fact that LBT is not a non-violence story to those he may write or enjoy fanfictions of the kind. And it was I who asked for people to consider writing land before time stories without the excessive amount of violence I described. The two quotes look like it was sort of the other way round.

Oh, and btw, the difference there is that those two in 6 tried to have them for a meal. While the ones in 2 & 5 actually protected them from the danger. I'm pretty sure that the kids have a basic idea of which are their friends and which are their enemies. And what happens to enemies in kid movies that would otherwise destroy you? They die.)

Chomper's parents would have eaten Littlefoot and the others too had it not been for Chomper and Littlefoots couragous rescue of him. I see no reason to think that the sharpteeth who were killed in LBT 6 were any different from Chomper's parents with the only exception that their eggs did not end up in the Great Valley on hatching day by accident. Now it is of course a kind of a dilemma. Kill the sharpteeth and some little Chomper's may starve, don't kill the sharpteeth and some little Littlefoot's may loose their mothers. I guess in general I wouldn't object to the sharpteeth ending up death. But the way it was done was nasty. It was not a fight for live or death (as in case of the original movie's sharptooth) but an execution of two defenseless, unconscious sharpteeth. Furthermore I consider being burried alive a particularly "unpleasant" way of being murdered, and murder it was. If at least Littlefoot and the others hadn't been standing there cheering the execution. After what they learned with Chomper I would have expected them to have a little more respect for even a natural enemy's live. I wouldn't have them crying their eyes out over the sharpteeth whose deaths sure were a relief for them at that time and in that situation. Yet I would have expected the sense of decency from them not to get all too merry over it.

When it comes to death, you've got to give it the realistic view of it being good or bad. You've got to give to the reader the cause of the death. (Which in some cases is your insides being pulled out.)

I think land before time stories written by authors trying to keep up the atmosphere of the movies can well do without forensic descriptions of death causes. Unless it is of any importance for the story I don't see why writers of a land before time story should go almost as far as describing the contents of the split guts that have just been ripped out of the boddy of Cera's Dad!!!
It is of no relevance for the story while usually emotions of characters are. Detailed descriptions of twitching innards seem to come from sheer bloodthirstiness in a story like land before time.

Well, like I said, even with such things you can make a good story, regardless. One such fic I've read is Pokemon Master. (A Pikachu turning into a sword? Yeah right!) Despite everything within a story that is meant to turn away readers who stick too close to the basic nature of the subject, the writer did such a good job, that it hardly mattered. And get this, it was the first Dark Pokemon fanfic made. It had everything that could basically destroy it and made it live. (That's a big accomplishment in the end.)

I wasn't talking about stories in general, but about land before time stories and ONLY land before time stories. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more Pokemon fanfictions reflecting Pokemon atmosphere due to the fact that Pokemon leaves the reader a greater range of freedom of action (as far as I can judge with my very limited knowledge of the Pokemon universe) than land before time does. I understand why some people may find it difficult to write good stories about characters many of whom don't even have hands which are so important for many actions we are accustomed to, about characters whose main desire is to live in peace and harmony with enough to eat and to drink.
Yet I do not waver in my point that even in the stricktly bordered LBT universe there is a huge potential for totally new and exciting stories left, but nobody dares to give writing them an attempt.