The Gang of Five
The Land Before Time => 1988 Theatrical Release => Topic started by: Hypno on June 12, 2017, 04:19:55 PM
-
Me, ADFan185, Sovereign, and Snik have been thinking about contacting Mark Pudleiner (an animator who worked on Don Bluth films) has any stills, cels, or information at least about the lost scenes of the original Land Before Time. We may ask about All Dogs Go to Heaven as well (not sure if he worked on the movie or not though).
-
Since Pudleiner released that storyboards recently, he's obvious first candidate for letter. But I also think: maybe there're other people who can be contacted by mail without much trouble?
also, I'm absolutely not good in composing letters, so I can't help with that.
Edit: Oh wow I'm Ducky now! ^^
-
And I'm Spike :)
I'm not really sure who else worked on the film, I don't have much knowledge of that.
-
According to IMDB, he did work on All Dogs Go to Heaven. That site is a good place to investigate who worked on which film. Also, you may just watch the credits. ;) I don't know if it worth it to go through everyone who worked on LBT but there could be somewhat we could contact. Pudleiner is probably the easiest person to start.
-
On his blog he mentioned that he worked on ADGTH, so yeah, he did. I'm not even sure if he knew that the sharptooth storyboard drawings had cut scenes...we could ask him about that too.
-
wow...
I thought this thread would be the most popular in last months, and everybody would say their word here...
-
Same. Maybe some people aren't available to post right now.
-
Well, there have been countless past attempts to recover the lost scenes so perhaps people think this is one of them? :unsure: Anyway, I could do the message unless somebody else wants to.
-
Yeah, you could do it. I don't know if I'd do good at composing a message. I wouldn't want to mess up or ask him the wrong question or not be polite or anything. We wouldn't want to annoy him, or we might not get the information we're looking for.
-
Yeah let's not hound the guy he does need his privacy and if he doesn't get back to us in a day or two or a bit long than we should send a reminder e-mail.
-
I don't think it would hurt to ask him, and I'd be interested to hear about his experiences working on the movie in general. Let me know if you need any help writing the letter/e-mail :D
-
post your variant of composed message here. :D
-
I'm really bad at those official openings and endings of a letter but I hope I have managed to do a satisfactory draft of the message. Please give your thoughts about this proposition.
Greetings, Mr. Pudleiner! I’m writing on behalf of several members of the Gang of Five, a fansite dedicated to the Land Before Time. We are extremely grateful for the great storyboards you shared with us in 2015 as they gave us new information about the original film, especially concerning the deleted scenes. The scenes cut from the film just before its release have been of immense interest to us, the fans of the series, and we would be extremely grateful if you could share some details about your memories concerning the scenes and the overall making of the movie.
We would like to know if you might have any additional storyboards about those scenes or if you could explain what those deleted scenes were and what happened in them. For example, what happened in the first, uncut sharptooth attack scene that we didn’t see in the final film? Was there an extended scene about Spike’s birth? We would be incredibly thankful if you could tell us what you remember about those 11 lost minutes and your overall experiences about the production of the Land Before Time.
P.S Do you know anyone else who worked on the film who could be able to provide us with more information or sketches from the lost scenes? Any further contact information would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you
Gang of Five
-
:unsure:
*waits for others' opinion on this*
Edit: lol, srsl, E3 thread is tripple more popular than this. :'(
-
I think it is a good message. Much better than as good as I was going to do.
-
Well, I'm glad that you found it somewhat acceptable. Still, I'd like to know how the formal parts (greetings and signature) should be improved before we send it. I'm sure they're not correct.
-
You could say something like "Sorry to bother you" or something early on possibly. You could change "T. rex" instead of Sharptooth. You could also put at the end:
Thank you,
Gang of Five Forum
instead of
Thank you,
Gang of Five
-
I'll send this tomorrow. I'd like more people to have their say at this message. Pudleiner is one of the people who created the film and went through every part of its production. We don't have many such people available for contact and I'm surprised this hasn't caught more attention. :neutral
-
I'll tell some of my LBT Wiki buddies about this.
-
I'll send this tomorrow.
wait wait, don't send it yet.
I think we can wait more one day. :D
Maybe somebody from Rock Circle head stuff will post their response here?
-
Alright. We can wait at least a few days and hope that some members will notice this by then. I'm not in a hurry. :)
-
That sounds like a good idea. All of the admins need to add there two cents
-
I hope some come on and see this topic. Malte checks out the forum every day or two. Hopefully he'll see this. Nick is on here a lot too. Adam unfortunately isn't around much anymore though.
-
It's not that likely that we might get anything out of this. Pudleiner used the storyboards for teaching purposes and probably had to ask permission from Universal Studios, they own the rights to the movie after all. Plus there were multiple creative people involved and they also have a say in this - even though the creative people involved in those kind of projects usually don't mind sharing storyboards etc - but as I said, Universal has to approve it as well, and I'm not so sure if they would agree for this kind of stuff to be released on a fan website.
It still does not hurt to try of course, it shows that some interest is there, and if said interest appears to be strong enough, the studio who owns the movie might act on it. If word reaches Universal, it might increase the chances for a proper blu ray release (scanning the actual negative film roll and restauring it instead of upscaling a dvd version) and maybe even a collector's edition that does show or at least tells us what the removed scenes would have been.
-
You are right. Like ADGTH they said that the scenes were destroyed, but, you seen what happened there. The extended version of the hell scene was found.
-
I hope so also and I know most of the staff isn't on much. But hopefully they'll check out this topic and add something
-
I don't know too much about writing formal letters but what you wrote seems pretty good to me. I do wish for the best of luck in getting a response or possible answers though.
-
I hope so as well we can hopefully get some kind of reasoning why they deleted those senses from the movie,
-
I understand, RockingScorpion.
But, even if we can't see that storyboards or full scenes right now without that stupid permissions and copyrights, we will know that they are still th... dammit! they don't release for 30 years and they don't want to use them in any way (for free or to get more money) so why these scenes must wait in the corners for another fire to be destroyed or completely forgotten. AAAAH I'M MAD ON THEM!!!
phew...
I need to relax...
what I want to say: at least, we can know that storyboards or even full animated scenes EXISTS. :D
And that there's still a chance!
yay!
-
Yes I agree I hope they still have the senses as well
-
The letter looks perfect to me! I'll be interested to see his reply :D
-
That will be a awesome day when he does reply
-
I'm waiting a few more days if someone comes up with something they wish to say.
-
Ah that seems very fair looks like no one has anything to say tho.
-
Like Sovereign said, we should give a few days for peoples' inputs. Not everyone is online every day.
-
True you're right let's wait and see if anyone else replies.
-
Haven't been on here for a while recently - too much stuff needed my attention IRL. Have the letter been sent yet?
-
As I know, not yet. Or Sovereign would tell us.
We wait for people's opinion on this for some days.
(forum admins and mods are not interested in this? Oo)
-
So, are we collecting signatures or names to put under the main text of the letter? Cause if we are then count me in. :)
-
I don't think that's what Sovereign is doing. We would like some input on the whole thing and such.
-
No apparently not witch I find surprising I would think they would be interesting
-
Indeed, the idea is to hear peoples' opinion about the message and to see whether they have any wishes or amendments concerning it. We've waited for a few days now so unless any new ideas are brought up, I'll send this tomorrow, if that's okay.
-
Okay then, Sovereign. Send it tomorrow. Hopefully we get a reply.
-
I'm praying that he replies soon
-
I won't speak for the entire admin team, but I hope it works out for you guys. Worst that can happen is the guy doesn't respond or politely declines to talk about it. When singing names at the bottom, it may be best to do so only from yourself, and not a forum as a whole.
Good luck! :)
-
Thank you respond, Petrie! ^^
-
I won't speak for the entire admin team, but I hope it works out for you guys. Worst that can happen is the guy doesn't respond or politely declines to talk about it. When singing names at the bottom, it may be best to do so only from yourself, and not a forum as a whole.
Good luck! :)
Yes, I hope Sovereign sees your reply and changes that. I really hope that this goes well! And if it doesn't, it's not over. The search for cels and information will continue!
-
Yeah, that's one point I thought about. Should I use my real life name instead? Also, it's great to see you online, Petrie! :yes
-
That's good advice it's time to send away and hope for the bedt
-
Yeah, that's one point I thought about. Should I use my real life name instead? Also, it's great to see you online, Petrie! :yes
Not sure. It's up to you I guess.
-
I think using your real name makes it more professional.
-
I would say so. I was actually going to say that using your user name might not have been as good.
-
Yeah I can agree with that it's sounds more sincere
-
Well, I think I can do that. But I won't share it with you in a screenshot if I get an answer. :p :lol
-
Lol ah okay that's fine I guess
-
Yeah, you don't have to do that. You can just copy the response and remove your name if Mr. Pudleiner says it at any time.
-
Yeah, I agree. Using a nickname when messaging someone about their work seems inappropriate.
-
Yep, Yep, Yep! I would be so happy if Mr. Pudleiner had info. Just imagine our reactions if he says something like "I actually do have some of those deleted cels that you're talking about." or "That scene was supposed to be like...".
-
True it does I can agree with that when writing a professional letter using a real name makes it more serious and firm
-
True it does I can agree with that when writing a professional letter using a real name makes it more serious and firm
I think you told the same twice before :rolleyes:
-
Oh sorry stop picking on me
-
Well, the message has been sent. Fingers crossed for a good answer! :goodluck
-
:)littlefoot
(http://caps.pictures/199/6-land-before-time4/full/land-before-time4-disneyscreencaps.com-3372.jpg)
(http://caps.pictures/199/6-land-before-time4/full/land-before-time4-disneyscreencaps.com-3379.jpg)
-
Awesome hopefully he'll respond
-
Great! Let's wait to see if we get a response. :yes
-
I tried to contact Jim Razzi unsuccessfully.
-
Maybe we'll have better luck with him
-
Well, Jim Razzi wasn't doing the film itself so maybe he didn't feel like answering. I just hope Pudleiner has some kind of a soft spot for Land Before Time, it is his first film as an animator after all.
-
We're glad that you wrote and sent the letter to him. Let's wish for the best that he responds
-
Any response yet?
-
Sadly, no. :(petrie Still, it's possible he'll answer it on a later date. We'll see.
-
Maybe he's busy and doesn't have time to respond
-
Petrie answered on my message four months later.
So... :rolleyes:
Let's just wait.
-
Maybe he isn't on to check. His last blog post was in February.
-
Give it time sovergin did send it only yesterday
-
Holy cow, a little more than a week of not sticking around and already you guys start doing lots of cool things without me knowing :D :wow
-
I just hope it will be more than just a beginning. It's been two days since I sent the message but it's true that Pudleiner might be busy at the moment. According to IMDB, he is still active in animation so it is plausible that he just doesn't have the time to answer. Let's give him more time, there's still a good possibility of him answering. :)
-
There's no rush for him to respond to us if he does get back to us that's great if not than it's not a big deal.
-
Wait, two days?! I thought you were just about to... Boy, does the time fly when you're back to work after an exam session. :blink:
-
I know it's amazing how time flies when you're having fun
-
I'm very happy to announce that I received an answer! :wow Mark said he asked Goldman for details and without further introduction, let's get to the message.
I asked the one of the owners and producer Gary Goldman.
This is his reply.
- Mark
" Though it was approved at the storyboard stage. It was at a screening in April or May of 1988 just 6 months before completion of the film at a a 20th Century Fox theater in Soho Square, London, with just Don, John, me, Steven and his first wife and George in one of the small 30 seat theaters. The problem is that when it was edited, cutting 19 scenes out - including audio, by one of Steven’s favorite editors at Pinewood Studios in England, it was mainly the T-Rex shots (scenes to me) of full head shots with wide open mouths, attacking into the lens of the camera at the child dinosaurs as they took cover in the briars. However, it was less than a minute lost sections of the T-Rex attack and the kids. Steven and George both felt that those scenes would have triggered an audience of 4 and 5 year olds crying and having their mothers and fathers holding them in their arms in the lobby waiting for a safe time to take their kids back to their seats. Those cuts remained, the tiny short cuts were taped together and rolled and we took them back to Dublin. However, we never saved the prints or the negatives for those scenes, all were animated and cleaned up, many of which were in color.
The additional 10+ minutes of cuts came after we finished the film. Steven and the same editor, who had been fast-tracked to get a green card, to move to Burbank and work with Spielberg there at Amblin on the Universal lot on other projects. Steven continued to edit the film to be sure it would not disturb parents or their children. I believe we delivered an 80 to 82 minute film including all credits. The final edited length was 69 minutes, the same as Bambi (1942).
Best,
Gary "
So, what do you think? There was some information about the production of the film, including a more detailed look into the timings of the cuts. I'm truly overjoyed that we received an answer but I would have wished for more details. Still, I'd like to hear your thoughts about the answer. :)
-
Argh, I was about to get myself some popcorn but I guess this is not popcorn-worthy after all :unsure:
Still nice to see they responded at all..
-
O_o
So
O_O
So?
O_O_O_O_O_O
So what did was cut in these other 10 minutes? AND WHERE ARE THESE SCENES? WHERE ARE THAT SHARPTOTH CLIP? IS THERE STORIBOARDS????????????????????????????????????
*takes a pill*
I need to relax...
I told you we need to send a letter! We didn't lose anything!!! ^^
ok ok... let's see... let me think...
-
Goodie! You should ask him if he has any other info on the Mama Longneck vs Sharptooth scene.
-
Yeah, I should probably send him another message to ask if he got any clarifications. I'll do it on this weekend. However, what really puzzled me is that why did he ask Gary? Surely he should have some first-hand knowledge himself? :unsure:
-
Looks good atleast we got a good enough answer to the question In my opinion
-
Ok What I thought:
we definitely can send another message, BUT it shouldn't look like we spam author. Maybe one-two days of waiting would be good. :)
Also: what should we ask? Since half of first letter's questions are unanswered, and respond from Mark contains reason for new questions. XD
Let's think.
Looks good at least we got a good enough answer to the question
absolutely not enough, since it is not full answer. :'(
-
Ok What I thought:
we definitely can send another message, BUT it shouldn't look like we spam author. Maybe one-two days of waiting would be good. :)
Also: what should we ask? Since half of first letter's questions are unanswered, and respond from Mark contains reason for new questions. XD
Let's think.
Looks good at least we got a good enough answer to the question
absolutely not enough, since it is not full answer. :'(
Well, we did get some information about where and around the month where a lot of scenes were cut, that's something, to me at least. Useful information to add to the wiki.
-
Yeah so that's better than nothing atleast he gave us information on those senses and why they're gone for good.
-
I don't take this "the scenes are lost" shit for granted. If it's true that they're lost, I, at least, want to know what they contained in detail so I can reconstruct the movie as a fanfiction at the very least <_<
-
I don't take this "the scenes are lost" shit for granted. If it's true that they're lost, I, at least, want to know what they contained in detail so I can reconstruct the movie as a fanfiction at the very least <_<
Neither do I <_<
Like I've said many times, it seems we can't really trust that, since we've already seen what happened with ADGTH...
-
Well, I'm afraid that none of the people we can contact are able to help with getting the scenes. If they do exist at all, Spielberg or Universal are the best bets. Still, my hopes aren't too high. If Pudleiner won't answer to my next message (I'll do it tomorrow), I wonder if it would be helpful to search the Internet if we can find the other animators' or artists' contact information. LBT had quite a number of creators after all. There's a chance we'll find one more email address somewhere ;)
-
What about Judy Freudberg and Tony Geiss? (that's their names, right?) They came up with the main characters for the film I believe.
-
Sadly, they're both dead. :(petrie
-
I knew Mark could not know about some information. But anyway, this is what I would like to ask Mark:
1) What scenes do that 10 minutes contained?????????? And why they were removed?
(Because even if they are lost forever and there isn't any hope... We will know what happened in them!)
2) Was that 10 minutes packed and moved somewhere like Sharptooth's scenes? aka could they still exis?
3) (Maybe I didn't get it, but) Where did Mark get that storyboards, and is there others? Is there a chance we will see them in future?
4) Is there people from LBT stuff who can be contacted by us without harm? Can Mr. Pudleiner advice to us?
5) Why does creators didn't want and isn't wanting to publish cut material in some special edition? *angel rollseyes*
-----------------
Please, let us read your new letter before sending it, ok? :)
There's no hurry. We can politely wait for some time befoe sending our "spam" messages. XD
Edit: wait... Did he said 10 minutes were cut after film was FINISHED???????!!!!! O_o
In final editing stage? Not in storyboards development stage? O_o
Or I misunderstood?
-
Yeah I believe there were around 10 minutes of FULLY ANIMATED SCENES that were cut.
-
That's just the confirmation for the past evidence. The few shots in the trailers were fully animated and the scenes had to be completed if there is any truth in the Finnish claims. The only question is where is it?
Also, my 500th post! :wow
-
Unfortunately that seems to be things that we may have to do ourselves :(
But how?
-
Not sure how we can find that out maybe it's lost forever
-
Like I said multiple times before, I don't believe they are lost. They just HAVE to be still collecting dust in a vault somewhere...
-
Let me put it this way: what possible motivation would Universal have to destroy expensive, completed animation?
-
more interesting question: why they still didn't add them to any of LBT1 unique collections for big money? I don't mind they do that only for money. I want them. o-o
-
Maybe they got too careless? I don't know.
Also Snik, if you'd like to find out information on the scenes and what may be in them, you should check out the page for the cut scenes on the Lost Media Archive wiki. You can see the article here. (http://lostmediaarchive.wikia.com/wiki/The_Land_Before_Time_(Original_Uncut_Version)) I made an edit fixing some stuff and adding the confirmation of the original length of the film (thanks to the response!).
-
of course I did read that article. Each-year tradition of searching for uncut LBT scenes made me read this long time ago. XD
But I would like to hear about this scenes from people who were directly involved.
-
Let me put it this way: what possible motivation would Universal have to destroy expensive, completed animation?
Not everything in life goes as planned. :D
-
I edited the wiki article for the original film, and I added additional citations for different claims and such thanks to this reply. I also added when most of the scenes were cut, and more additional confirmation on how many scenes were cut and when, with additional citation from this reply :)
-
Alright, here's my proposition for the second message.
Thank you for the great answer, Mark! It was really nice for you to ask Goldman for details concerning the timeline of the cuts and there was really much new information in the answer that widened our knowledge about the production of the film! Thank you very much for that! But we’d still like to know more about what the scenes actually contained, what happened to them after Spielberg cut them and what you did during the production of the Land Before Time. You were credited as a Character Key Assistant and Additional Character Animator and we’d be interested to hear more about your experiences about making the film and especially concerning the cut 12 minutes. For example, could you tell where you got the storyboards and might you have more of them?
We’ve seen some hints about what the scenes contained in the movie trailers as well as in James Horner’s phenomenal soundtrack for the film but otherwise, their content is a highly puzzling and intriguing thing to us fans. Could you possibly elaborate about the actual content and place (in the film) of the cut scenes and tell if you know anything about what happened to the deleted footage after Spielberg cut it? Fully destroying finished animation seems rather odd so, if you have information about this, is it possible that the scenes survived? Also, any further contact information would be appreciated but once again, thank you for your answer!
Is there something you wish to add or remove and should I put the formal greetings and signature again? :unsure:
-
I don't see anything wrong with it, I think this second message is even better than the first one! I'm being 100% completely honest.
Also, if you or anyone is interested, here is my analysis of the reply to the first message. (http://www.gangoffive.net/index.php?topic=1300&view=findpost&p=40015605)
-
well
1) Is it OK you call all them by first names, like pals? I don't know, maybe here it's ok, I don't know.
2) I still wonder where did he get that Sharptooth's Attack storyboards, and does he have more is he going to post more n the future.
With no hurry, of course. *rollseye*
also, let's wait for another day before sending it, ok? no hurry :D
-
I know. Where did he get them? Was he given them? Did he already have them in his possesion and decided to upload them? Does he have more? So many questions.
-
I added one sentence to the original message proposition to ask about the storyboards. I don't know about the forename using but he used mine in his answer (I censored that part though :lol ) so I imagined it would be okay to use his. I can certainly wait for a day but I don't think it would be useful to wait much longer than that.
-
Yeah, you're right. He certainly would like to know that you seen the message and haven't disappeared. What are we going to do after this message if we don't get all our answers yet? Will we keep asking questions until he stops responding (if he does, hopefully he keeps answering)?
-
Well, I don't know. It hardly gets any better if we bombard him with the same questions all over again but I wouldn't want to lose contact with one of the best hopes we have for finding out more about the scenes. Let's see what he says in his next answer (if he sends one that is).
-
I hope so. I just still really want to know how he got those storyboards. I think that's the first question I want answered next. Maybe he has cels? Like you said, it was his first movie so he's gotta have something valuable. Cut cel, perhaps?
-
Looks very good! Just one thing that Snik already mentioned, it is a little strange to refer to Steven Spielberg and Gary Goldman by their first names, as it does imply that you know them personally. It is, however, more acceptable to use Mark's first name because you are speaking directly to him, and because that's the way he signed his first response. Hope that helps :D
-
It's done. Thank you for your great tips on the formal parts! I'm not very good at them. :p
-
So, you'll be sending it tomorrow? Nice. I don't want to get too excited or get impatient but at the same time we don't want to wait too long. He might not answer back again.
-
Yep, I'll send it tomorrow. Hopefully he'll answer in more detail this time but answering even once is more than he would have had to. We'll see.
-
And the message has been sent! Let's hope for a speedy and thorough answer! :exactly
-
Me: Guys?
Gang: Aye!
(http://caps.pictures/199/6-land-before-time4/full/land-before-time4-disneyscreencaps.com-3372.jpg)
(http://caps.pictures/199/6-land-before-time4/full/land-before-time4-disneyscreencaps.com-3379.jpg)
-
Lol, here we go again.
-
Yep round two hopefully he gives us a better answer
-
I'm not sure.
We got a good answer last time, right? Good enough for me at least. It gave extra clarification for rumors that are no longer rumors.
-
It was a solid answer :)
I'm pretty satisfied with what we got.
-
It certainly is nice to know for sure that the scenes were indeed finished but we're still no closer to knowing what they contained. If we could get an answer to that, I'd be satisfied.
-
Fingers crossed guys :smile
-
I'm hoping right now for him to reply
-
Responding to Mark's original message:
1.) I'm surprised he responded, really I am. Gary Goldman, not a surprise since he and Don a long time back answered fan questions on their website. They've been willing to talk with fans in the past.
2.) I don't think there's anything else that needs asking. We found out what types of scenes were cut (open mouth scenes with teeth) and that the cells were basically taken back to the animation studio and removed. If the film wasn't finished, lets remember that cells and stuff in traditional animation do get destroyed and reused. Don Bluth and co. never had the money Disney had to archive things just because they could. The way I read into it is that the cells were destroyed and reused to finish the film and that it isn't likely they even remain in existence. Mark didn't seem to indicate there is any warehouse somewhere they would be stored (this is Universal here).
-
Responding to Mark's original message:
1.) I'm surprised he responded, really I am. Gary Goldman, not a surprise since he and Don a long time back answered fan questions on their website. They've been willing to talk with fans in the past.
2.) I don't think there's anything else that needs asking. We found out what types of scenes were cut (open mouth scenes with teeth) and that the cells were basically taken back to the animation studio and removed. If the film wasn't finished, lets remember that cells and stuff in traditional animation do get destroyed and reused. Don Bluth and co. never had the money Disney had to archive things just because they could. The way I read into it is that the cells were destroyed and reused to finish the film and that it isn't likely they even remain in existence. Mark didn't seem to indicate there is any warehouse somewhere they would be stored (this is Universal here).
Is this the same case for All Dogs Go to Heaven?
-
I would say even more so for All Dogs. That was released by some small time studio without Universal's backing. If there's any stuff for All Dogs floating around its because they were held onto back in the day when the film was made ('89 I believe) and have been in collections ever since.
-
Well stuff WAS found for All Dogs, the extended Hell scene was found in full.
I suggest you check out this post (http://www.gangoffive.net/index.php?topic=13780&view=findpost&p=40014531) I made for information.
Tell me what you think.
-
Ah yes I can agree the answer we got was fine so I guess we shouldn't send him another message than
-
What? But you wanted another message, but now when Petrie says that we don't need another answer you change your mind :crazy
The message has already been sent so let's see what happens.
-
We found out what types of scenes were cut (open mouth scenes with teeth)
Actually, that was a mere fraction of the cut scenes as Pudleiner said. We still have little to no knowledge concerning the rest of the scenes so I'd say we have a lot to ask.
-
Well we believe the Berry and Oasis scenes were cut due to racism, but the Berry Scene is unconfirmed for that.
-
Well, considering the knowledge we have and the pace of the film, I don't think the oasis scene would run too much over 2 minutes and Spike's extended birth something like one minute and half. Even with those scenes considered, there's still 9 to 10 minutes we know practically nothing about.
-
Hmm. Okay, so there's that bit of cut footage in the sharptooth fight we still don't know of. You know, the part in the soundtrack that has the dramatic music?
If you want to know what I'm talking about, it's from 07:39 - 07:57 in Sharptooth And The Earthquake. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZUzvInQd-Q)
Take a listen. It's pretty good music too. Something must have happened in that short time, but what? In the movie, something is cut a few seconds before Sharptooth gets sent into the wall.
-
I've read Almaron's analysis about the soundtrack and I've listened to that part many times myself and I'd really like to know what has been cut there. Still, that's only 18 secs of the grand total. By the way, Pudleiner said the sharptooth scene was cut before the film's completion and the rest of the cuts. Do you think he considered the deleted minute of sharptooth scenes part of the grand total of 80 to 82 minutes?
-
Probably, if it's the grand total.
But there's also the scene where Littlefoot finds the Great Valley on his own before turning back to save his friends. We know that there was some stuff cut from that, the rest was in the rearranged ending.
After saying "The Great Valley" it then seems he gets really excited in this picture. (https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/landbeforetime/images/d/d0/Littlefoot%27s_Discovery_deleted_scene.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170627005322) I always picture him jumping in my head when I try to picture this scene.
Then he runs the waterfall and plays in it here. (https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/landbeforetime/images/d/d6/Littlefoot_playing_in_Waterfall_deleted_scene.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170627005508)
Then finally he must say something like "*gasps* I have to go find my friends!" or something similar, as he runs up the waterfall here. (https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/landbeforetime/images/5/58/Littlefoot_climbing_Waterfall_deleted_scene.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170627005613)
This whole scene's music is still in the soundtrack at 02:10 - 02:28 in The Rescue/Discovery Of The Great Valley. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcOGACyjA8g)
The music where he actually finds the Great Valley ends faster and doesn't last as long as the music at the end of the track and in the movie.
There's also a Great Valley cel here. (https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/landbeforetime/images/a/a4/Cut_Great_Valley_cel.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170627193826) I don't know what scene that this could possibly be in, maybe the End Credits? A lot of music from that final track got cut.
-
I know the scenes and stills we have now but my point was even with this and the other scenes we know, well over half of the cut scenes are still a mystery. Even with the reorganized ending, I doubt the running time would be much longer than 1 minute. I've read the outcut scenes section many times. I'm sorry if I'm being blunt but we don't have to go through each of the scenes. Even put together, the scenes we know aren't likely to exceed 4 to 5 mins of the 11 or 12 mins. I initially referred only to those two two scenes because they were brought up. ;)
-
Oh okay. I was looking at other cut scenes in animated films like All Dogs and The Black Cauldron. TBC was cut way worse than LBT and All Dogs from what I've seen. Chunks of music is cut (like The Army of the Dead scene that was going to be much more graphic) and is badly done. Stuff even had to quickly get reanimated and that made the cut version even worse. I think LBT did so much better with cutting than TBC.
-
What? But you wanted another message, but now when Petrie says that we don't need another answer you change your mind :crazy
wanted to say exactly this in morning. :rolleyes:
-
Yeah, I heard there were a lot of problems with the production of the Black Cauldron and it really shows in the film. I've never really liked it but it's nice to know that there are films that are as badly handled in terms of cuts as LBT or Bambi. (There was 30 minutes cut off from Bambi because of financial problems :(petrie ) This is a bit off-topic though. :p
-
Hmm, no response yet? :(petrie
-
Nope. :( Should we give Pudleiner more time or should we start preparing to contact Zondag (or someone else you might have in mind)?
-
I guess so, no need to hurry :)
-
Give him more time no need to rush
-
no hurry.
Let's wait.
-
He's busy with his life right now so it's no biggie If he doesn't answer
-
Even if he does answer later on (he very well might), I think it wouldn't hurt if we started to prepare the next letter (and who writes it)?
-
I see no point in not trying to reach as many people as possible.
-
Well we want more answers here so if you say so let's do it
-
Give him more time no need to rush
He's busy with his life right now so it's no biggie If he doesn't answer
Well we want more answers here so if you say so let's do it
Fucking learn to stop spaming, dude. One answer is enough! If you can't learn to limit yourself and your thoughts to just one answer, you'll be gone from here soon, that much I promise you! Your fetish to reply with these empty, contentless one-liner posts is sickening and my patience has officially run out with you! :rolleyes
-
Alright, everyone calm down for a moment. Yes, he might be annoying but using strong language is not how to tell him to stop.
Okay, about Pudleiner.
I think he might have been taking a break to do something today, as it WAS Canada Day yesterday, and he is Canadian. Maybe he didn't want to reply because he had a lot of things planned? Maybe, he's Canadian like me and Action9000.
-
That may very well be, Hypnobrai, but I don't think having multiple contacts at once would hurt. ;) Is there someone else who'd like to write the next message? :)
Fucking learn to stop spaming, dude. One answer is enough! If you can't learn to limit yourself and your thoughts to just one answer, you'll be gone from here soon, that much I promise you! Your fetish to reply with these empty, contentless one-liner posts is sickening and my patience has officially run out with you! dino_roll-eyes.gif
I don't disagree with this outburst but the wording was a bit unnecessarily strong. Even then, ADFans's countless answers are getting rather surreal. :neutral
-
Wow, I didn't think Ducky will crack first, with these strong words. :oops
Ok, let's calm down here.
Edit:
ontop:
Let's no talk about "awww. why he still didn't respond?" until next weeks, for example, ok?
Patience is virtue.
[size0](I hope guys from different forum won't see this. Or they would laught at my words... XD)
-
Of course we aren't giving up on Pudleiner, I'm just saying that it wouldn't hurt to contact another person while we wait for Mark's answer. If someone else isn't willing to write the message to Zondag, I'd be willing to do that also. ;)
-
Wow, I didn't think Ducky will crack first, with these strong words. dino_oops.gif
The time of sugarcoating if officially over for me. Either he changes or he has to go... don't you agree, Snik?
ontopic: I don't know what's the best approach there. Maybe give Pudleiner until the 4th?
-
I'd say if we get no response by the end of tomorrow I'll be giving up on him. We can make a new topic for Zondag.
-
Do we even have to? If the admins are up to it, they can change this topic's name to something like Asking the Animators of the Land Before Time about the deleted scenes or something like that. We can make a new topic as well, though.
-
Or we could do that. Rhombus, Nick, where are you? :lol
I guess if Pudleiner happens to respond at a later date we can look at that as we are doing the message for Zondag (full name please, I don't really know who "Zondag" is).
-
I'm talking about Dick Zondag, one of the directing animators of the film.
-
Oh, okay. Does he have a blog or anything? Has he discussed LBT in the past?
-
I put a link on his website on another thread but here (http://dickzondag.com/www.dickzondag.com/About_Me.html) it is again. He mentions Land Before Time in his film list and he is also in the credits of LBT.
-
Oh, I see. Okay, I see a contact link. Good. You should start writing the message soon.
-
Edit: dammit, why I didn't see new posts.
@Hypnobrai: don't give up on Mark. You're impatient.
I'm agree with renaming the same thread.
-
I doubt Pudleiner would take offense even if he read this topic. It's not like Mark couldn't answer while we wait for an answer from Zondag also.
-
No new topic, just change the title, yep, yep, yep :)
-
Alright, here's my proposition to our message to Zondag.
Greetings, Mr. Zondag! My name is ----- and I’m writing on behalf of several members of the Land Before Time-themed fansite called the Gang of Five. We are very grateful to you for partaking in bringing the film to life as one of its directing animators. The film’s animation is gorgeous throughout and we would be willing to ask about your role in making the movie as well as the actual content of the deleted scenes. As you most likely know, over 10 minutes of finished animation were cut out from the film after its completion and we would be incredibly interested to hear about what they actually contained.
We have some hints about the scenes in James Horner’s phenomenal score and from many additional sources about the lost footage but their content is still mostly a highly intriguing mystery to us. We know about the cut sharptooth scenes, extended Spike’s birth as well as the original ending but nearly nothing else is known about the rest of the lost 12 minutes. Would you be able to tell what the cut scenes contained as you remember them? Is there any chance the footage could have survived the cutting process intact or was it destroyed as Don Bluth has said? We would also be interested to hear about your own work with the film (what scenes or characters you animated, for example). We would be extremely grateful if you were able to answer these questions.
P.S. If you might happen to have any further contact information for the other makers of the film, they would be highly appreciated!
Best regards,
----
Please share your thoughts about this message. :)
-
Looks good, you're getting better with every message :yes
These are good questions and I hope he gives a solid answer, maybe even better than Pudleiner's!
Also, is anyone going to ask one of the forum staff for a name change for the topic?
-
Good one, Sovereign! Well worded :yes
-
Thank you for the kind words, both! :) I might send this later today if it's okay to you.
-
Maybe we should send it tomorrow. We can get the Zondag thing to be noticed as well.
-
I'm not sure if that's really necessary. After all, it's a week since this idea was announced and the questions are pretty much the same. :unsure:
-
All righty then. I undertsand, you can send it if you want :yes
-
And the message has been sent. :)littlefoot
-
Fingers crossed guys! :goodluck
Quick Snik, get the gang! :lol
-
Gang is sleeping. At least they told it to me. Maybe they gain secretly went to he night adventure.
So this time me do it. For them.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/-lvNjVzV-lqA/UEKh-1IC35I/AAAAAAAAAR8/Wbvh8WvsvCk/wlEmoticon-fingerscrossed%25255B2%25255D.png)
-
:)littlefoot x(cera ^^spike :sducky :(petrie
Here's the gang for ya :lol
-
Littlefoot and Spike look happy, yet Cera doesn't care, Ducky isn't sure about this (?), and Petrie is dealing with something right now, possibly his uncle being gone so long :p :lol
-
And Chomper with Ruby are forgotten like Shorty now. :/
-
Well, neither Pudleiner nor Zondag has answered so I'd like to hear opinions about how to continue from here on. Should we find another original film's animator's (or some other filmmaker's) email address or should we try someone who worked on the sequels next? I'm open to any ideas. :)
-
I don't know about that... I can't advice in this question.
what I want to do s - contact someone from LBT14 stuff. :neutral
-
To try to fish some hints about LBT 15? :lol
-
I don't know who to contact.
EDIT: Really don't know which thread this should go so I'll try this one here... found a pretty good article about the production of LBT 1 on DeviantArt. Some information seemed new to me. Here you go Click! (http://celmationprince.deviantart.com/art/The-Land-before-time-Production-History-523468236)
-
I don't blame Don Bluth. He seemed pissed after the scenes were cut out. He really wanted the movie to be a true Bluth film, but I guess Spielberg didn't like that darker direction.
-
Thank your the link, Ducky! It's good to see the whole story in one text. Unless anyone (besides Snik) doesn't have any ideas, I can look for some information myself.
Edit: The LBT composer Michael Tavera could be a potential contact if we want to know about the overall production of the sequels and the music. Also, Arnold Taroy, the directing animator of JOTB seems to on Linkedin but I don't have an account to it. We could also look for more people of the original film. It sems we have a lot of options. :)
-
Could we contact Gary Goldman? He gave the information from the Pudleiner reply.
We could also ask Don Bluth, but I don't know if there's really anything new we can get out of him, he's already said the scenes were destroyed.
-
I've already asked them twice via the Dragon's Lair campaign and I got no answer. I updated my previous post so you check that if you wish to see what I found. :p
-
Ah, Michael Tavera! I want to ask him about the Tavera version of that theme we were talking about on the "Music and the LBT franchise - Preferences?" topic.
I know he had "Rescue Sequence" sharptooth theme at the end of LBT 10 because I KNOW I listened to it before on Israel Barber's old TwinSanityUniverse YouTube channel. I want to know what happened to that track, and the LBT 2 sharptooth theme, along with the complete LBT 3 sharptooth theme as well.
-
We can take a look at what we wish to know. Of course it would be great to hear about his times composing LBT, his own preferences about his work as well as if he knows anything of LBT 15.
-
Oh god yeah, if LBT 15 is being made then he obviously must know something! He's the veteran LBT guy here, along with Jeff Bennett.
-
Indeed. :) No matter what, I believe we get some hint about the topic if he answers. As for the other things, there's a chance he might know about the cut sequel scenes and about his own work. This time making the message should more complicated than before due to the wider range of the things we'd like to ask. Does anyone want to write message or is it again me? Here's (http://michaeltavera.com/) his site if you're interested.
-
Hmm. I just considered it myself but, uh, I think you should do it. I don't have a wide enough volcabulary for this. :boohoo
-
I could do that but do you still want me to announce everything (the message itself and its sending) here? The two last posts have reduced my wish to raise too much hype here. :sducky I still want to continue this project but it seems like we shouldn't expect too much from it.
-
Whatever you wish, it's up to you.
Edit: Actually, we could make a new topic for asking about sequels and LBT XV.
-
I don't see the need for it yet but if Tavera does answer, the by all means. :)
-
Alrighty then, I'll wait a couple days for you to make a message. Let's hope others read.
-
Edit: Actually, we could make a new topic for asking about sequels and LBT XV.
Why? We just could do everything in this single thread (Mods? Admins? Rename? Please?)
-
Topic title has been renamed. I asked Rhombus and he changed the title to what I requested :)
-
thx! ^^
-
Thank you for changing the topic name! :)
I know he had "Rescue Sequence" sharptooth theme at the end of LBT 10 because I KNOW I listened to it before on Israel Barber's old TwinSanityUniverse YouTube channel. I want to know what happened to that track, and the LBT 2 sharptooth theme, along with the complete LBT 3 sharptooth theme as well.
Could you specify what you meant by saying "what happened" to the tracks before i write the message, Hypnobrai?
-
Well I'm not sure how Israel Barber got it; I'm assuming it was him who asked Michael Tavera for the soundtracks, and he had Rescue Sequence. Maybe he doesn't anymore.
-
Ludichris said in his music project that Tavera had provided him with every track he possessed. :unsure:
-
I know it's strange. I asked Israel Barber about where the LBT 2 sharptooth theme was and he told me Michael Tavera didn't have it when he asked. I don't know when he did.
-
Well, here's my draft of the message. Hypnobrai, are you sure that the sharptooth music you're talking about isn't on Ludichris' project? They might not have been on Barber's YT channel but Ludichris has a lot more songs than Barber had (I saw his channel too).
Greetings, Mr. Tavera! My name is ----- and I’m writing on behalf of several members of the Gang of Five, a fansite dedicated to the Land Before Time. We are very grateful of all the great work you’ve done to the franchise, with great songs such as the Night Flowers and your instrumental version of If We Hold on Together. We’d like to know more about your versions of the original film’s soundtrack, such as the before-mentioned piece and the Secret of Saurus Rock’s battle scene music (we noticed that the piece from the Discovery of the Great Valley used on the sixth film’s first sharptooth scene sounded different there than James Horner’s original version), for example.
Also, the song “Best Time” that you very kindly sent to our fellow member, Ludichris, a few years ago brings intriguing questions. Why was this particular song cut from the film (judging by its melody, we’d suspect it was intended for the Wisdom of Friends), and were there possibly any other tracks or scenes cut from the films that you know of? Also, there seems to be some tracks that weren’t included in the tracks you gave to Ludichris (for example, some sharptooth scenes in the second and third films). And finally, if you are allowed to tell about it, would you have any information concerning the possible LBT XV? It’s been over a year since the Journey of the Brave was released so there’s a good chance that the next film could be in production if it is being made.
We would value any answers you’d be willing to share with us! Very little is known about the production of the sequels and any new information would be greatly appreciated!
Best regards
-----
-
one correction I'd make is this here....
would you have any information concerning the possible LBT XV?
I'd write smth like: "... concerning a possible continuation of the franchise?"
Otherwise, this is good! ^^spike
-
Very good message! But what about LBT XIV's tracks? We don't have them.
Listening to LBT 3's sharptooth theme now, in the movie. There's definitely missing parts from the one he gave to Ludichris.
Such missing parts include similar parts of the first 18 seconds in it (though they sound different, and one is short), a very dark sounding theme where the raptors wake up from the rock collapse, and a LOT of fast-paced late-track fight music.
I'd say the track would be almost twice as long if it had the missing parts.
A lot of this missing music is also in LBT 5 when the Plated Sharptooth attacks, particularly the start, which is a similar-sounding version of the first 18 seconds of the track, but IS different. A lot of the missing fight music (all of the missing fight music, actually) is in the Plates Vs Sharptooth's parents battle.
Well, here's my draft of the message. Hypnobrai, are you sure that the sharptooth music you're talking about isn't on Ludichris' project? They might not have been on Barber's YT channel but Ludichris has a lot more songs than Barber had (I saw his channel too).
No, I'm sure there's missing tracks. I have Ludichris' scores downloaded too and I listened to them.
-
As much as I'd like to see JOTB tracks added to Ludichris' music project, I think in that case there would be too many questions at once and the message could get pretty overwhelming. Also, I probably wouldn't be qualified to do other peoples' projects just like that. We'll see what Tavera says about those "lost racks".
-
in LBT 8, everything from the moment on Spike is seen walking with the far walkers through the storm while the wind carries Ducky's voice over to him, is not included either :unsure:
-
Maybe it was in a previous movie? :unsure:
I'm very confused as to how the LBT 2 sharptooth is missing. The whole thing! I have to listen to it in the movie, something that can get annoying :angry:
-
LBT2 sharptooth?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz5yvPhvdr0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz5yvPhvdr0)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OHDAkn5Jcs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OHDAkn5Jcs)
It's not that?
-
No. The first video is the LBT 3 and 5 version (and it's missing a lot of music).
The second video is that same theme from the first video mixed with Ibarber's Garage Band mix of the first minute of the LBT 2 theme, but it doesn't sound the same due to the limitations of Garage Band.
-
oh ok, thank you for explanation.
I just made quick check in first seconds of Chomper's parents encounter from LBT2 before posting links. There were tunes, so I thought it's full versions.
-
Greetings, Mr. Tavera! My name is ----- and I’m writing on behalf of several members of the Gang of Five, a fansite dedicated to the Land Before Time. We are very grateful of all the great work you’ve done to the franchise, with great songs such as the Night Flowers and your instrumental version of If We Hold on Together. We’d like to know more about your versions of the original film’s soundtrack, such as the before-mentioned piece and the Secret of Saurus Rock’s battle scene music (we noticed that the piece from the Discovery of the Great Valley used on the sixth film’s first sharptooth scene sounded different there than James Horner’s original version), for example.
Also, the song “Best Time” that you very kindly sent to our fellow member, Ludichris, a few years ago brings intriguing questions. Why was this particular song cut from the film (judging by its melody, we’d suspect it was intended for the Wisdom of Friends even if the narration sounds like the second film), and were there possibly any other tracks or scenes cut from the films that you know of? Also, there seems to be some tracks that weren’t included in the tracks you gave to Ludichris (for example, some sharptooth scenes in the second and third films). What happened to these tracks? And finally, if you are allowed to tell about it, do you have any information concerning the possible continuation to the franchise? It’s been over a year since the Journey of the Brave was released so there’s a good chance that the next film could be in production if it is being made.
We would value any answers you’d be willing to share with us! Very little is known about the production of the sequels and any new information would be greatly appreciated!
P.S Would it be possible to ask you share the Journey of the Brave tracks with us to keep Ludichris’ project up to date?
Best regards
----
Well, I modified the message somewhat according to your suggestions, changing the question about LBT 15 and asking about where the "lost tracks" are. :) I also added the question about the JOTB songs but I think I should have Ludichris' content if I want to ask him to update his project. :unsure:
-
Change "second and third films" to "second, third and tenth films" because there's a whole sharptooth track missing in X.
Otherwise, I think the message is finished :)
I guess you could send this tomorrow if you think it's done, minus the minor change that should be made. :yes
-
Well, the message has been sent. I really hope we'll get an answer this time. :)
-
I'm working on composing the LBT 2 sharptooth theme in Musescore if he doesn't have it.
Ducky123 and Action9000 will be helping me :yes
-
That's a great project! I'm happy you have help with recomposing that track and I'm looking forward to hearing it! :)
And, to my great and positive surprise, Tavera already sent me the JOTB tracks! :wow Here's (https://tavera-music.wetransfer.com/downloads/e00c9fabb2606495c89ce29f330147b020170714175711/b89d85277884ad2bff2ce4ee98f27d9a20170714175711/b13ef0?utm_campaign=WT_email_tracking&utm_content=general&utm_medium=download_button&utm_source=notify_recipient_email) the link to downloading them. I received no further answers but this alone is a major success. :yes My great thank you to Tavera for sharing these! And Ludichris, you're free to add these to your project whenever you please. :smile
-
Wow, something that fast! This is good news :yes
Hopefully he writes his answer to the rest soon! :D
Edit: Uh, your real name's here.
Edit 2: Maybe Tavera will get back to you at a later date, maybe that's why he said "Have an awesome day!"?
-
Yeah, I know my first name's there. Well, that can't be helped and many other members' real given names are also known. As for further message's from Tavera, I hope he answers the questions but we can't be disappointed if he doesn't.
-
I'm confused though, it's like he just gave you JOTB's tracks and sent you on your way without any answers :unsure:
Well I hope he gets back to you at a later date, like I said before. I'll take a listen to the music when it's done.
Oh it is done. Give me a minute here...
-
O_o
All is such simple... O_o
*shakes your hand, men*
-
Here's the link to downloading them.
Holy crap, those are uncompressed .wavs straight from the main guy! Dude, that's cool, thanks for sharing!!
-
They won't open in any of the media or music players for me :unsure:
-
Awesome!!! We may not have gotten any answers, but I'd say we got something pretty epic out of the deal :lol
They won't open in any of the media or music players for me
Just asking- did you unzip the file?
-
Extract? Yeah.
-
I'm happy to see the excited reaction! :) I agree that the JOTB soundtrack was a really nice thing to get! Hypnobrai, I don't know if that's the problem but for me there are two main folders and only the second one, the LBT XIV CUES, of them works. I don't know what the first one is but there seems to be some of the same tracks as on the second folder so I'm not sure if that's a problem.
-
I was opening the wrong folder the whole time :oops
Well, I have them now :)
Edit: Wow, I'm surprised he even gave the remix of Swimming Sharptooth. I wish he did that for the other movies. :yes
Another edit: The Swimming Sharptooth theme in LBT XIV seems to also have the Twins B track in it, where the Allosaurus first appears following Dinah and Dana in LBT 6.
-
I've received no more answers from Tavera so does anyone have any further contact ideas?
-
Again, still weird. Barber told me he answered one of his questions once. :sducky
I'm not sure who to contact next. Maybe a voice actor? Oh yes, yes, yes! :yes
-
Voice actors of LBT14. I think if we contact one of them - we would get something. :D
(even first news about LBT14 was from voice act man!)
-
In that case, I'd say Anndi McAfee or Aria Curzon are our best bets. They are both on YouTube and there seems to be a PM option there but I'm not sure whether they're read. Nevertheless, what do we wish to know? Either one of them once noted that it's not useful ask them about the future movies as McAfee said in a past interview that she heard of JOTB only a week after she recorded her lines. Even then, she may have already than that but what else is there to ask? They have told about their experiences rather generously in the past so the main thing that comes to my mind would be the deleted scenes in the sequels. Also, sometime soon I'll get back to fishing more information about the original film's cut scenes. :angel
-
I made some big edits to the LBT article on the Lost Media Archive. I'm trying to keep it updated with what we know.
We could ask Anndi McAfee first. The article also has a sub-header about the sequels' deleted scenes as well.
It says there's a still promoting LBT 11 on the article, but I'm not sure where that is.
-
We can certainly do that. Anndi has been fairly consistent in answering to stuff on her YT channel so she's a good choice. Is there something in additional to the potential deleted scenes and LBT 15 we'd like to know about?
-
I guess we could try and ask her about LBT 15, but she probably doesn't have a clue, neither will Aria Curzon, unless they have to do lines soon.
As for other questions, how about the absence of Tria, Tricia or Shorty if she knows anything.
Just so you know, she may not know who Shorty is, as someone asked her a little bit after JoTB was released about him being absent and she said she didn't know who that was :oops
The person also asked about a LBT 15, but she said she had no idea at the moment.
-
as I told before, I don't want to ask about LBT15 but about LBT14. :)
-
I'm biggest for deleted scenes in the sequels. I don't care too much for the absences.
-
the deleted dvenes of the sequels aren't that important imo... there's very few evidence of those and unlike in the first movie, you don't see obvious cuts...
I'd go for Anndi and Aria as well. They're always been nice :) Don't forget it was Aria who first confirmed a new movie in the making :)
-
the deleted dvenes of the sequels aren't that important imo...
nope nope nope :sducky
Possible deleted scenes can contain VERY interesting characters' scenes, decisions, and actions. :yes
So, I don't mind to ask quick question about that.
-
Agreed. I'd personally be very interested to hear about the lost scenes in the sequels to see if they contained anything of value. If there's a chance we'd learn something about them, I'd want to take that chance. About my new message, I made a shorter and more informal one as Anndi has been more in contact with the fans via YT and the interviews than our previous contacts. Also, I thought a YouTube message shouldn't be that formal. :unsure: Anyway, tell me if you think I should return to my previous style or if you find this message more suitable here!
Hi, Ms. McAfee! I’d like to ask you if you know or remember anything about the possible deleted scenes in the sequels. I’ve heard that Aria Curzon once referred to them in an interview so I, along with many members of Land Before Time fansite called the Gang of Five, would like to know if you remember some of them! There’s practically no information about those cut sequences so each piece of knowledge would be greatly appreciated! Also, if there’s any news of LBT 15, we’d be very excited to know about that too!
-
By YT message, do you mean here?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLhfz_pRA2...8hAQ/discussion (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLhfz_pRA27f7_5yItz8hAQ/discussion)
-
Yep. There's a send message icon in the about section.
-
No, I meant the discussion section. I didn't know there was a message option :oops
Well I don't know what else you could change so I think it's good :yes
-
The deleted scenes of the original have priority. As I said, you don't notice any missing scenes in the sequels but you do in the original and it bugs me greatly every time I watch it...
-
I don't disagree but it's easier to cringe at the cut scenes in the original because we know where the most important parts where. I don't think it'd be as big a problem if we didn't have a clue that 1/7 of the film was butchered. :sducky Maybe we learn something new to be sad about in the sequels. :lol Also, I sent the message today.
-
Awesome. She does videos for fans by the way...ask her a question, and she will either reply to your question if you ask it in a comment on a video, or she will make a video. I asked her to do her favorite sharptooth, and I hope she replies.
Also, offtopic but, does anyone like the Plated Sharptooth avatar I have?
-
Sounds good :)
Also, offtopic but, does anyone like the Plated Sharptooth avatar I have?
Avatar games in Party Room :rolleyes:
-
Heh heh, didn't know that existed :oops
-
:unsure:
Well, it looks like she hasn't gotten around to answering. Who should we contact next.
-
Well, I'd guess Curzon would be a good candidate to ask the same question. However, I'll cast my award votes before I get to doing the next message. ;)
-
So, are we still going for information concerning the deleted scenes of the sequels? In that case, I'd say Aria Curzon is our best bet as the information about those scenes came from her. :)
-
I'd say so.
-
Well, here's my draft for the message to Curzon. It is practically the same thing I sent to McAfee but we are asking pretty much the same things so i thought it'd be okay. And i'm planning to contact her via Youtube as I did last time. :)
Hi, Ms. Curzon! I’d like to ask you if you remember any of the the deleted scenes in the Land Before Time sequels. Your remark about them in a past interview has been one of the very few hints about their existence so I, along with many members of Land Before Time fansite called the Gang of Five, would be very grateful if you could kindly tell us what they actually were! There’s practically no other information about them so each piece of knowledge would be greatly appreciated! Also, if there’s any news about LBT 15, we’d be very excited to know about that too!
-
Looking good. I'm busy right now, so I'll talk some more later.
-
Actually, when I checked on her "YT-channel", I noticed that it was a topic-profile so it isn't her channel really. :oops Does anyone have other ideas on how to contact her?
-
Topic-profile? What do you mean? You were on her AriaStar YT channel right?
-
Actually I wasn't, thank you for pointing it out. :) But the channel seems kinda odd and it seems like I still can't send message to her... Well, I'll look at it in more detail soon.
-
For some reason, Aria's YT channel doesn't have a contact option and she doesn't be too active there anyway. Because of that, I once again looked for a new possible contact and I ended up with Stu Krieger who did the screenplay for the first film to ask, once again, about the deleted scenes. I found his contact info on this (http://theatre.ucr.edu/stuart-stu-krieger/) website.
-
Let's give it a try :) maybe we'll get lucky again!
-
I still plan to continue sending these messages when I have more time. I've been a bit busy this month but rest assured, I haven't forgotten this project. :)
-
That's fine! There's never a due date for these sort of things. Get it done whenever you feel like getting it done :)
-
I'm a bit late to the party, but I see you're up to something quite interesting over here. This project seems very promising and I'm looking forward to finding out more and more information on this topic. By the way, does anyone here still have the LBT XIV waveforms? The link doesn't work anymore :/
-
A lot of us do, yes. But the link doesn't work anymore sadly, so you can't download them from Tavera himself anymore.
-
A lot of us do, yes. But the link doesn't work anymore sadly, so you can't download them from Tavera himself anymore.
Ah, I see. :(petrie
-
All hope is not lost though. If someone has them and have a Dropbox account or something similar they could probably upload it and post a download link :)
-
It would be nice to see those deleted scenes, if they ever release them.
-
So, would you like to start this back up, Sovereign? The newly discovered script has opened up some questions (such as the Tumblr blog that had tidbits of the original film's original script, I wonder where the guy got them), and I believe we haven't contacted Stu Kreger about the original film, or people who worked on XIV that may have some info to leak about the hypothetical XV.
-
Hmm, maybe it really is time for us to resume this. :smile There are still some people to contact who could be able to share something interesting with us. As for that Tumblr blogger, we should ask where he got the notes from the story meeting, whether he has more of them and if he knows something more of the cut scenes. It's nice to hear that you're willing to send the message, Hypno, but is there someone willing to write the message? I guess I could do it if nobody else wants to but it'd be great if someone would want to help with searching for interesting people and ways to contact them. I'd also appreciate if someone else could also write at least some of our future messages. :)
-
Well, here's what I came up with for the message to the blogger. It is shorter than my previous messages but I thought it would be better to keep things simple when we aren't contacting a celebrity.
Hi, I’d like to ask about a few posts on your blog, specifically the ones which held parts of the early script of the Land Before Time. They held extremely interesting bits about the known cut scenes and even many sequences of the film of which there has been absolutely no evidence until now. Thank you very much for sharing them but may I ask where you got the script in the first place and by any chance, would you have more dialogue or information about the deleted scenes? I would be extremely grateful if you could answer these questions!
You may do some corrections if you wish, Hypno. Send it whenever you feel like it. :) Also, I might as well do the message to Krieger in the coming days, too.
-
Looks good. I do agree with you that the message does not need to be as professional as this is a dude on a blog filled with comedic stuff on it. I hope that we get a response, I'd say it's pretty likely as the user is still active on Tumblr. I'd rather not link my Tumblr but I will inform everyone on this thread of the response when I get it.
Edit: the message draft you posted Sovereign uses too many characters, I'll shorten it though, don't worry :)
-
I got a reply :)
"I got it on ScriptFly, where I did have to pay for it, but it was worth it."
The site is here: https://www.scriptfly.com/ (https://www.scriptfly.com/)
This is where he got it. The LBT script is $14.95 CAD (found it simply by searching "land" on the site). And, according to multiple threads on Reddit and Yahoo! Answers, the site itself is indeed safe (no viruses).
So, it was a short answer, and he didn't provide any additional information on the deleted scenes, however at least we do know where the script was obtained :D
Anyone got fifteen dollars to spend? :p
-
Well, that was fast. :) It's good to see that he answered the most important question but it still leaves me wondering: how in earth did ScriptFly get the script for the deleted scenes and did the blogger get the script for all the lost scenes with his purchase? :unsure: In any case, this is something to ponder about. 15 dollars isn't too much but I still fear malware from smaller sites, especially when it comes to money despite the assurances. :(
-
You sent letter without showing it there to us? D':
Anyway, I'm confused... The hell is this site and how did script, if it is REAL script, ended here? Oo
I'm truly amazed and confused.
(I can pay easily for such stuff, even if it was 320$, but I need confirmation about real LBT stuff)
-
You sent letter without showing it there to us? D':
I showed it two days ago and Hypno just sent it. As for whether ScriptFly's script is real, the only confirmation we have are the images of the dialogue Hypno shared and at least for me, they look quite believable.
-
Wait, so letter was SO short and simple? :D
sorry then
Well, I just afraid if it is not fake script made on Photoshop or something and posted on some mysterious site... HOW DID THEY GOT THIS SCTRIPT???
*relaxing*
Anyway.... So, guys, you think we can without a doubt buy it?
(I'm also amazed this news still didn't make huge boom and hype here on forum)
-
Wait, so letter was SO short and simple? :D
sorry then
Well, I just afraid if it is not fake script made on Photoshop or something and posted on some mysterious site... HOW DID THEY GOT THIS SCTRIPT???
*relaxing*
Anyway.... So, guys, you think we can without a doubt buy it?
(I'm also amazed this news still didn't make huge boom and hype here on forum)
I'm not sure as to how they got that script. The mystery is still unknown as of now. I think someone could buy it, if they choose to do so. Who is willing to buy it?
As for the end of your post, I'm amazed as well. Maybe it is because we sent the question and got our response during the middle of the week while people were busy, so they didn't get on to view the thread quite yet.
-
(I'm also amazed this news still didn't make huge boom and hype here on forum)
Me too. I thought it was perhaps the biggest news since JOTB's release but apparently not. :( In any case, here's my proposal for our letter to Stu Krieger, the film's screenwriter.
Greetings, Mr. Krieger! My name is ... and I’m writing on behalf of the members of Land Before Time-themed website Gang of Five. I am extremely grateful for your amazing contribution to the film (and to your other movies as well) as its screenwriter and one of those who helped to bring the film’s unbelievable story to life. I'd like to ask you if you happen to be willing to share some of your memories about the writing of the film, especially concerning the famous deleted 10 minutes of the movie. Those scenes have been of great interest to the fans of the movie for years.
As you probably know, many sequences of the film were cut prior to release and lost for good afterwards. There have been some hints here and there and even an early version of the film’s script was recently found. As the Land Before Time’s screenwriter, you were probably working closely on planning those scenes and I’d like to ask if you remember what at least some of those sequences contained and in which parts of the film they were supposed to be. We would also welcome any memories or details you’d like to share about the making of that phenomenal movie! I and many other fans would deeply appreciate if you were able to answer these questions.
Best regards
....
As you most likely notice, my letters are very similar to each other these days. If we find another interesting person's contact info, do you want me to continue posting these messages here on the forum before sending them?
-
We could keep the message drafts up for archival purposes. Also, in case there does happen to be a mistake everyone can still see the message draft just to make sure everything is right :)
As for this message, where are you sending this to again? It's been a while since you initially thought of contacting Mr. Krieger. It looks fine; I'd just like to know where you actually found his contact information :)
-
I included the link in a post on the last page but here (http://theatre.ucr.edu/stuart-stu-krieger/) it is again.
-
Yes, it was the wrong topic. Sorry for the mistake. :bang Anyway, here's the message again.
Dear ...,
Due to the extremely long time it takes to make an animated feature film -- especially back in the '80s when many of the cels were still hand-drawn, we began work on the original LBT in 1985. Over the three years of development, many scenes came and went and some sequences were actually animated but later cut for various reasons -- most of which had to do with pacing.
In the very beginning, Steven Spielberg and George Lucas conceived the film as having no dialogue to keep it more realistic. As we worked on the story, we realized that it would be very hard to keep a young audience's attention without the characters being able to speak and show personalities beyond what we could convey through movement alone. Once we agreed that the dinosaurs had to speak, it became much easier for their personalities to take shape: Ducky's exuberance, Cera's stubbornness, Spike's laziness, etc.
There are two cut sequences that I do remember. One involved trying to show Cera's softer side so we understood that her bravado and toughness were a front to allow her to assert herself in the pack of guys. The sequence had her lagging behind the others when she came upon a flower growing up out of the cracked earth. She stopped, nuzzled it, sniffed it, reveled in it -- and then when Littlefoot turned back to look for her, she instantly STOMPED on the flower and kicked it away to keep from being accused of being "soft." Ultimately Steven felt that the sequence slowed the story down and wasn't needed.
The other piece (and somewhere in my files I have the original storyboards for this bit,) was a little comic relief involving a mama bird feeding cherries to her babies. The baby birds bobble and fumble the cherry knocking it from one to the other; it was just a light moment to go between all the challenges our heroes were facing on their journey. That, too, got cut because it didn't actually progress the plot and everyone decided it was better to keep the story clipping along for the young attention span.
Hope this is of interest to you and your group.
Best,
Stu Krieger
Professor
Department of Theatre, Film & Digital Production
University of California, Riverside
INTS 2122
As for Hypno's comment on the other thread, I, too, found that odd. I'm not sure if he's speaking of a similar scene than the one we have but it would be odd to have two such scenes in the film, though. :unsure:
-
(reaction on answer is in different topic)
So, will we try to carefully ask him about if it is another scene, or even to publish these storyboards? >:3
-
I certainly don't think it'll hurt. :) I don't think he would have mentioned those storyboards if he didn't want us to know about them. I'll try to present my answer here tomorrow and perhaps send it the day after. :smile
-
thank you! You rule! :D
-
Well, here's my answer to Krieger. I also added a question of whether he knows about other potential storyboards but I don't know whether we should get our hopes high on that one. However, is my message.
Thank you very much for the answer! It’s really great to hear about the making of the film and we truly appreciate the bits of information you shared. In fact, both of the scenes you described were ones we’ve never heard about! However, we’d be interested to see, if you only are willing to share them, the storyboards you mentioned for the second scene as they’d deepen our knowledge of how that sequence would have looked like. It’s rather fun that there actually is a scene with the baby pteranodons in the finished film so were they intended to be a recurring comical relief? These storyboards are of incredible worth to us as they’re the closest we can ever hope of seeing what the lost parts of this amazing film actually were so I’d also like to ask if you have any ideas where some of the other storyboards of the cut scenes might have gone to?
If I hear your opinions quickly, I might be able to even send this today! :lol :lol Also, Sneak, has there been news about your script?
-
Perfectly done, as always ;)
-
Still hasn't script yet.
Well, still, I think scene with baby fliers sounds SO similar to scene we all know in the film, so I dunno, should we tell about it that we are so amazed to hear something we "have never seen before". :) Just a thought. I think we should only carefully ask if these flier characters were supposed to be recurring, appearing between tense scenes of gang's journey.
-
I'm sorry if I was hurried too much but the message is already sent. Now, all we can do is hope for an answer... :^.^:
-
But you wrote about hearing our opinion... Oo
well, ok, i guess. XD
-
Well, Hypno answered and to be honest, I seldom get major correction requests so I thought it was okay... :oops :bolt I promise to wait for your comment too in the future.
-
Well, that certainly was fast. This isn't the answer I was hoping for but it's nice that he at least answered.
Hi ...,
Unfortunately, I do not feel comfortable sharing the storyboards because I don't own the rights to them. That's between Spielberg, Lucas, Don Bluth and the last thing I want to do is get in trouble with any of them.
-
Well, that is understandable. I'm glad that he responded so quickly though, and that he responded at all again in the first place. Who's next on the list?
-
Oooh, nice! New info! Though I feel like it would have made more sense for Cera to eat the flower :lol
-
Thank you!
These copyrights... гг Dammit, I want Sharptooth eat them all so people see storyboards... XD
btw, just got script. I"M IN HEAVEN
-
Welll... is there anything interesting? :)
As for Krieger's remark about the storyboards, I wonder if we should mention to him that Pudleiner released his own storyboards? At this point I don't have more contact ideas but I'll try to look for more soon enough.
-
I don't think we should mention it to him.
JUst thanking for info about scenes and policies that don't let us see LBT scenes. :(
-
The script discussion is for another topic (it is definitely a huge thing but we seem to have gotten a lot of answers about the first film than we could ever want) so why don't we try and ask a person who worked on the sequels if they know anything about deleted scenes in the sequels? And maybe they have some stuff to share like concept art (OR a script!?) :)
-
That could certainly be an idea. ;) Even though I fear finding the long-term screenwriters' or other leading sequel creators' contact info could be a bit difficult as most of them are still in business. I can take a look but do you have any ideas at this point?
Edit: My first look at the creators of the sequels wasn't exactly encouraging. A few of them are on LinkedIn but other than that, I didn't find too much at this point. :(
-
Edit: My first look at the creators of the sequels wasn't exactly encouraging. A few of them are on LinkedIn but other than that, I didn't find too much at this point. :(
There were some creator's sites that I did find a few months back. I'll have to look again to see which ones :) I think I had looked mostly at storyboard artists, but I had viewed other artists too, there could be some with contact info, some sites I remember being pretty filled with contact so I'll take a look.
Edit: Found one, Mike Sosnowski, storyboard artist for the second movie. http://www.sos-now-skistoryboards.com/my_storyboards.html (http://www.sos-now-skistoryboards.com/my_storyboards.html)
There is a contact link on the site.
Edit 2: Another, Robin Conover, storyboard artist for the sixth movie. http://www.animationtrainingacademy.com/robin-conover1.html (http://www.animationtrainingacademy.com/robin-conover1.html)
Edit: 3: Another, Llyn Hunter, storyboard artist for LBT XIV.
https://llyn.deviantart.com/ (https://llyn.deviantart.com/)
http://www.llynsplace.com/ (http://www.llynsplace.com/)
Edit 4: Larry Houston, storyboard artist for XIV as well. https://www.larryhouston.com/ (https://www.larryhouston.com/)
Also, Fred Gonzales, another XIV storyboard artist. https://www.fredgonzales.com/ (https://www.fredgonzales.com/)
Finally, Robert Sledge, XIV storyboard artist. https://www.freelanced.com/robertsledge (https://www.freelanced.com/robertsledge)
-
I searched for Sosnowski myself but apparently I should have looked harder. Those hyphens seemed to have ruined the search. :p In any case, these are great finds Hypno. I'll certainly do the messages for some of these people in the coming days but should we ask anything else in addition to potential deleted scenes? I guess I could also add the normal question about the overall production of the films and if there was something memorable they'd want to share with us. Thanks a lot for these suggestions! :yes
-
I searched for Sosnowski myself but apparently I should have looked harder. Those hyphens seemed to have ruined the search. :p In any case, these are great finds Hypno. I'll certainly do the messages for some of these people in the coming days but should we ask anything else in addition to potential deleted scenes? I guess I could also add the normal question about the overall production of the films and if there was something memorable they'd want to share with us. Thanks a lot for these suggestions! :yes
Frankly, I'm not done searching lol. I only looked through LBT 2-6 and 14, and almost exclusively the storyboard artists. Haven't even done the TV series though I remember finding a few sites for storyboard artists that worked on it too :)
So really, there could be a lot more contact sites than we think. All we've gotta do is find them ;)
Also yes, I'd like to know about production and notable stuff as well for sure, so be sure to include that question too ;)
-
Well, here's proposition for our message to Sosnowski. This time I'll make sure to wait for all of your comments. :oops
Greetings Mr. Sosnowski! My name is ... and I’m writing on behalf of several members of Land Before Time-themed website Gang of Five. We’re really grateful for the job you did for the second film, the Great Valley Adventure, as it paved
the way for the continuation of this great franchise and served as a worthy sequel to the original masterpiece. However, we’ve been wondering, in the light of the editing fiasco of the first film in the series (more than 10 minutes of finished animation were reportedly cut and lost before the release), if there were any major cut scenes in the Great Valley Adventure?
Very little is known about the production of the sequels but we feel it’s highly possible that not everything went smoothly with the second film either and that’s what we’d be willing to learn more about. We’d like to ask if there were any major sequences cut from the film of that were planned to be included in the initial draft of the film that didn’t make it into the final version. You, as one of the film’s storyboard artists, were probably included in planning the film from its early stages and because of this, we’d like to ask what you remember from the film’s production and especially its editing and, if you only wish to, whether there’s any concept arts or something else you might have from the film you’d like to share with us? Any other stories about the film’s production you’d like to relay are heartily welcomed too! We would be incredibly thankful if you were able to answer these questions.
Best regards
....
Edit: I corrected the typo Hypno mentioned and added this small addition to the text: something else you might have from the film.
-
Looking good. I hope he answers for sure :)
EDIT: I spotted a small error. "My name ----" should have "is" in it.
-
Any answers yet? :)
-
In fact, I haven't sent the message yet but I'll do it later today. :yes
-
Oh, I see :D Fingers crossed!
-
Considering that Sosnowski never answered, I think it's time for us to contact the next person. I'll do a message to Conover tomorrow but I wonder if toonwonder@gmail.com is his actual personal email or is it some kind of common address on Animation Training Academy? :unsure:
-
Well, here's my message. It's largely the same as last time with the only changes made to the first part of the post. The two had similar roles in the films after all and we're asking the same question again so I thought that'd be okay.
Greetings Mr. Conover! My name is... and I’m writing on behalf of several members of Land Before Time-themed website Gang of Five. We’re really grateful for the job you did for the sixth film in the series, the Secret of the Saurus Rock. I truly believe it is one of stronger entries to the franchise, not least because of the new intriguing layouts and places designed for the film. However, we’ve been wondering, in the light of the editing fiasco of the first movie in the series (more than 10 minutes of finished animation were reportedly cut and lost before the release), if there were any major cut scenes in the Secret of the Saurus Rock?
Very little is known about the production of the sequels but we feel it’s highly possible that not everything went smoothly with the rest of the films film either and that’s what we’d be willing to learn more about. We’d like to ask if there were any major sequences cut from the film of that were planned to be included in the initial draft of the film that didn’t make it into the final version. You, as one of the film’s storyboard artists, were probably included in planning the film from its early stages and because of this, we’d like to ask what you remember from the film’s production and especially its editing and, if you only wish to, whether there’s any concept arts or something else you might have from the film you’d like to share with us? Any other stories about the film’s production you’d like to relay are heartily welcomed too! We would be incredibly thankful if you were able to answer these questions.
Best regards
...
-
Looks good as always, hope that we get a good answer from Conover :)
-
Well, after a few weeks Conover finally answered and as you can see, his answer was a thorough one. :) Now we know there weren't major cuts in the film and a bit more about how the production was arranged. Without further words, here's the message.
Hello ...,
I apologize for not getting back to you sooner. It is a busy time of the year for me.
I appreciate your interest in the properties of Land Before Time and was glad to hear from you. It is so nice to know that there are fans of the
In regards to major cut scenes of "The Secret of Saurus Rock and the other sequels, the big differences between the first film and the sequels comes down to money and time. As such, our budgets and deadlines were significantly smaller and tighter. Our productions consisted of a combination of US and overseas productions. Here in the US, our studio was on the Universal Studios lot (at first) and then into the Universal Building (next to the lot and below Universal City Walk). China was the location of the overseas production (I don't remember the name of the company off the top of my head). Our Universal studio concentrated on pre-production (scripts, storyboards, voice-over, character and prop designs, layouts, background keys, animation guides, animatics, etc...) and Post Production (editing, sound, soundtrack, distribution).
With this in mind and with the best of my recollection, we didn't have situations where major edits cut out interesting footage. In fact, any edits were done at the storyboard level during the storyboard phase and after watching animatics of sequences. Our Director/Producer, Charles Grosvenor directed the storyboard creation as well as created many of the storyboards himself. A very talent man and wonderful leader. The changes were relatively small because Charlie would meet with the storyboard artists often. He was terrific in allowing the artists room for their vision for their assignments but also guided everyone to his vision of the story as a whole.
You should know that I started as a storyboard artist in making changes to storyboards and putting characters on model (storyboard cleanup). I was allowed to do some storyboard along the way but my position changed to that of a "jack of all trades" in that I also did props and characters designs, animation samples/guides, and CG animation. The union didn't have a specific title for my position so the production manager chose "Key Assistant" for credits and scale.
The history of the sequels contains a history of change in technology as well. In the span of time that I worked on the sequels and tv series, the technology went from traditional animation to CG animation. Although the characters and backgrounds remained traditional, the beginning sequences went into CG. I had the privilege of being a part of that change. It was a true pleasure to work with the talent crew. For me, Universal was the best kept secret in the industry. There were no damaging politics due to character and kindness of the whole studio. Unlike many studios of its time, there was a lack of back stabbing, mid management politics, ruthless directors, etc...
I hope this has been worth your time reading. Thank you again, for reaching out!
Kindest regards,
Robin Conover
P.S.
I have some LBT artwork around but most of it is storage. I have attached a photo of a copy of a background key done by Flammarion Ferriera, our amazing Art Director.
(https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-S9Gi5zj6IgRTlfR0cydXUzQkF6NlZFZW1kRVNEMVROWk13/view?usp=sharing)
Edit: The drive-linked image doesn't seem to work. :unsure: I could use the link from the e-mail but the picture was far too big in that case.
-
Fixed:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0fpA_5BhH7A-97AVXLKz8qwl-OoE1fszLJ8FUb6fVa6wdgoFLA4zbatdaTA9H8jMRV7EeF_hBjxNU54ewdEa-n2b6tVFg=w1366-h603)
-
It's a wonderful answer!
Thank you both to mr. Conover and you who decided to ask! :D
-
Thanks, Littlefoot505, for fixing it. :) I wonder if we should ask Conover to share the other storyboards he mentioned with us?
-
You're welcome. And yes, let's definitely ask him about the other storyboards.
-
Hmm the image still doesn't come up for me?
Anyways, this is a great reply! It's cool to hear about some of the inner workings and he certainly seemed like he has enjoyed his time working on the films.
-
Here's my answer to Conover in case you are interested.
Thank you a lot for your detailed and insightful answer! It’s great to hear more of the technical aspects of the films’ production as well as of Grosvenor himself. He certainly sounds like an inspiring person to work with! Generally very little has been told about the production of the sequels and for example, the exact ways in how the Chinese companies were involved in the making of the films was really nice to hear. So thanks a lot for your answer as it was already more insightful than I had hoped for!
However, I’d still like to ask whether the production was as simple and easy with all the Land Before Time sequels you worked on? As far as I’ve understood, you worked on movies 5, 6, 9, 13 as well as on the TV series so were each one of them as simple and problem-free as the Secret of Saurus Rock? Also, thanks a lot for the screenshot you shared with us. We’ve seen art from Ferreira before and his works really bring the prehistoric world to life. I wonder if it were possible for you to share some of the other artwork you mentioned with us?
I haven't sent it yet so if you have anything else you'd like to add, please inform me about it :) .
-
Sounds pretty good to me.
-
This is quite amazing :smile
-
Oh my god, how did I miss this?
That was an interesting answer, because we barely know anything about the sequels' production unlike the original movie. So I suppose there aren't any major cut scenes, as said by Conover, because of the lower budget given.
Also, by the way, I still cannot see that image that was posted.
-
Did you ever get an answer to Conover after sending the reply? It's been quite a hiatus since we've last been contacting people.
-
Believe me, I would have told you if he had answered. :p Anyway, let's take a look in the coming days if there are new candidates to write to. :)
-
Well, if you go back to post #298 in the thread, you'll see that I had listed six storyboard artists that had contact pages who worked on the sequels. Mike Sosnowski and Robin Conover were two, but there were also four more - surprisingly, all four of them were storyboard artists for Journey of the Brave. Their names are Llyn Hunter, Larry Houston, Fred Gonzales, and Robert Sledge. Hunter has a DeviantArt account in addition to a website.
I suppose we could contact Hunter next. Here's her DeviantArt and website, where you can contact her on one of them:
https://llyn.deviantart.com/
https://hunter4story.weebly.com/
In fact, I remember now - back in February, I asked her if she had any LBT XIV storyboards to share (because storyboards for XIV are extremely rare to find) and she actually supplied me with some in her response a couple of weeks later. Here are the storyboards if you want to see them: https://hunter4story.weebly.com/storyboards.html (scroll down to "Universal - JOURNEY OF THE BRAVE")
-
Those storyboards are quite nice! Thanks for sharing them! However, if you already contacted Hunter, do we have much else to ask her?
-
You could ask her what production was like, if there were deleted scenes from XIV, etc. Not everything has to be storyboards; I just specifically chose storyboard artists to contact so that maybe we could be able to see some of the storyboards they did up (I am more interested in visual content instead of only text explaining something that has no picture). After we are done Hunter, Houston, Gonzales, and Sledge, I'll move on to finding some other people who worked on LBT films, though. Maybe concept artists, editors, etc.
-
Alright, I'll try to get a message done to Hunter this week. Though, I must say, I'd be more interested in the original film's production than sequels' even if I know it's more difficult to contact those people. As for the storyboards, those are always great too but to me, descriptions are just as important.
-
May as well look for storyboards + text in the response then :)
Whenever you'd like, you can post the message draft here.
-
Sorry for taking this long to post the draft but I've been kinda busy in the past weeks. In any case, here's my proposition of our message to Hunter and as before, feel free to let me know if you want something added to it! :^^spike
Greetings, Ms. Hunter!
I am extremely thankful for the beautiful work you did for the storyboards of the Journey of the Brave. It was great of you to share some of them with a fellow fan, whom I know through Gang of Five, a LBT-related fansite, early this year and those pictures showed some of the great talent that it took to create this worthy sequel to the old classic. I, for one, enjoyed Journey of the Brave greatly and it was a real relief to see the series get over JOTB’s immediate predecessor. What I’d be interested in knowing, however, is what scenes you worked on besides Littlefoot worrying for his father and was there anything interesting going on behind the scenes during the creation of the film?
What I mean by this is that were there any problems or controversies during the film’s production? It would be especially interesting to hear about any cut scenes or sequences (the original, as you may know, had over 10 minutes of animation finished which is why I’d like to know of the sequels) that you may have seen or heard of during your work on the film. Also, you may have been asked this question before, but were there any implications that the film would have a sequel itself or that the franchise would still go on in some form? Sure, it has been nearly three years since JOTB but I and several other fans would still love to see this phenomenal series get further continuation.
We understand that you may not want to share everything with us but even answering a few of these questions would mean a lot to me and many other members of the Gang of Five. You may also add some funny memories of your own if you want to into your answer and thank you already in advance for a possible answer!
Best regards
---
-
As always, the message looks to be fine. :) Though I find this part is a little strange:
"It was great of you to share some of them with a fellow LBT fan early this year and those pictures showed some of the great talent that it took to create this worthy sequel to the old classic."
I mean, how would you know about me asking about storyboards? I feel like you should make it clear that you knew me beforehand. I think it sounds a little better that way. Though, this isn't a major thing, just a nitpick. The message is well done to me otherwise. :D
-
Well, I changed the reference to GoF to be earlier in the message in order to clarify Hypno's point. If any of you have other ideas, you may still share them. :)
-
Looks pretty good to me.
-
Thanks for the comments you two. :) If no one has more objections, I'll send the message tomorrow.
-
Good luck with your message, YOU'RE gonna need it! :SmugSpike :yes
-
I don't think that getting an answer is THAT unlikely but thanks anyway. :smile Anyway, the message is sent now. :)
-
Well, Ms. Hunter gave me an answer and a really great one as well! :)littlefoot Without further words, here it is!
Hey ---:
Nice to know there are LBT fans out there. It's a bit difficult to go into detail on the story end of the production. With most feature films in animation, there are tons of changes from the beginning to the ending of the project. Often there are entire sequences that are worked on for many months then totally rejected. For example I did one sequence were Littefoot and Ducky run into an old ribcage to escape from the Allosauruses and it goes bouncing down a hill like a barrel. I and several of the other storyboard artists working on that sequence did numerous versions of it (how many I can't even guess - but quite a number). In the end it was totally cut. There are many like that. In features Storyboard artists are often used to produce the original visual ideas, then once they are introduced into a rough animatic the director and producer decide whether or not they are working in the overall story for the film. The basic through line of - "Littlefoot and company go in search of his father and save his life" - never changes, but the events to get there and the number of them alter dramatically throughout the process.
As to what other scenes I had a hand in, probably a fifth of them before the entire film was completed. This is because as the film was continued to be polished each storyboard artist on staff would work on whatever scene needed changes as they became available. Since in animation the artists actually create the work, it can sometimes be almost an assembly line process. We all have to be able to draw backgrounds, props, and all the characters in the movie and act them out so that the animators can take a scene or sequence at a time and hook it all together and make a comprehensive film. On this film there were about 10 initial board artists and 5 staff (who were a part of that initial 10) who worked on the film.
As to future Land Before Time films, I'm sure there will be more, but I'm not sure when. Universal/MCA makes a great deal of money on them with little outlay. The problem is always that animation is always the step child in entertainment, live action will always be green-lit before animation. Most producers would prefer to be in charge of a live action project because of the larger budgets and status. Oddly enough, animation usually makes good money in the long run, but those in charge don't get the credit for it - the marketing departments do. Also, animation artists are temporary workers. We rarely work for a studio for longer than the extent of the project. When the studio is done with the project, they are done with the artists. They lay us off and just hire up a new batch when they are ready for the new picture, so the likelihood that I or anyone else that worked on this production will work on the next is not high.
In the long run, it is always a pleasure to be part of a franchise that has such staying power as LBT, I get to consider myself as one of the thousands that have had a hand in its continuation and creation. It is also wonderful that so many millions of people continue to enjoy it. I would suggest if you do wish to see another, send snail mail requests to Universal Animation. Something in paper with a physical stamp on it can have a lot of power as a vote of what you would like to see from them.
All the best to you and the other fans,
Llyn Hunter
-
OH MY SUBGOSH.
Thank you so much for sending this letter, and receiving new piece of information. I really enjoyed reading it! Nice New Year gift!!!
-
That was a very good read and it's nice to see how much she enjoyed working on the film! Awesome stuff! :)littlefoot
-
Yep, the answer was far better than I had anticipated! :) Do you think I should ask her something else or simply give her our thanks? :thinking
-
She seemed pretty happy to talk about it so I think asking her more stuff could be good. As to what I have no idea :p
-
Oh wow!! That's great that she answered you! This is the first time we've EVER found out about a deleted scene in one of the sequels! Also I don't remember there ever being an Allosaurus in XIV. I'm not sure what she meant there - there are only Yutyrannus and Carnotaurus that appear in the movie.
Maybe we could thank her for the answer and perhaps ask her if the storyboards for the cut scene still exist?
-
I can only second what the others have said, this response is a goldmine in terms of new information. Not only have we heard about aborted scenes in a sequel for the first time, but we have also received some indication of the likelihood of future LBT films in the opinion of Ms. Hunter. The confirmation that they receive far more revenue than expense with these films is a good sign that the economic payoff for the films is still there.
Thank you for sending this message out, Sovereign, and for providing Ms. Hunter's response. :) I have made the mistake of overlooking this topic for quite some time on account of being busy with other things. I will certainly be remedying that oversight in the future. :yes
-
This is a great answer, thanks for reaching out to her and sharing with us Sovereign! This is really cool :D
-
Thank you for your kind words everyone! :) Indeed, Hunter broke the ice on many issues about the sequels that have puzzled us for a long time. I thought that we could ask her more closely about the deleted scene and of other ones that were close to being animated.
Thank you very much for your insightful and thorough answer, Ms. Hunter! The bits of knowledge you shared have sparked a lot of interest on our site and indeed, we appreciate the time and effort you put into answering as many of my questions as possible. It really means a lot to me and to our other members as it is more than helpful to help us understand more about JOTB’s development.
Of special interest to me was the point where you spoke of the deleted ribcage scene as it is these deleted scenes are the exact kind of stuff we have wanted to know about LBT films. You mentioned that there were many different versions of that scene so I’d like to ask, would you have some storyboards about that particular scene that you could kindly share with us? And also, it is to be expected that many plans are cut while producing an animated film but still, we’d perhaps like to hear of some, more developed plans aside from this one that didn’t make it to JOTB. And finally, it is more than a bit unfortunate that the studios change their animation crew for every film but still, thank you for your encouraging and interesting words concerning the future of the Land Before Time.
Best Regards
---
-
Looks great to me. You are definitely improving with these messages :D
I suppose the message can be sent already as I don't see any problems with it :)
-
I was quite busy today but now the message is sent. Let's hope for another answer. :)
-
Ah, storyboarding to film is as annoying a task as always. That's my first thought upon reading her response.
Missed the initial reply due to wisdom tooth surgery getting the better of me, but I'll echo everyone else and say that I'm happy with the response received. Still on the fence on whether Universal would ever make a 15th LBT film, but the reply received is quite the tidbit already! :D
-
Since Hunter did not reply, perhaps we could move on to the next Journey of the Brave storyboard artist. I have the website links for Larry Houston, Fred Gonzales, and Robert Sledge in reply #298. Starting with Houston, I suppose we could ask him similar questions as we asked Hunter - were there any deleted scenes and if so do you still have any storyboards of them?
Also, I kinda want to know if Hunter was just mistaken when she identified the Featherhead Sharpteeth as "Allosauruses" because they certainly look like a lot more like either Monolophosaurus or Yutyrannus to me... so maybe we could ask Houston what kind of dinosaur the featherheads are supposed to be :p
-
I guess we could do that as it's nearly certain that other people remember different cut scenes than Hunter did. As for the latter question, I'm not personally too interested in that one but I can put it in the message as well.
-
I want to ask someone of LBTXIV production team about why Shorty was missing in movie much more than any possible deleted scenes and storyboards. :SmugSpike
-
As for the latter question, I'm not personally too interested in that one but I van put it in the message as well.
Actually forget what I said - I'll just ask one of them myself at some point since it's not that important.
-
Well, here's my message proposal.
Greetings, Mr. Houston!
I am extremely impressed for the beautiful work you and the other artists did on the storyboards of the Journey of the Brave. I, for one, enjoyed that film greatly and it was a real relief to see the series finally get over JOTB’s immediate predecessor. It’s clear that storyboard answers like you were instrumental in bringing the Land Before Time to life again and for that, I’m very grateful.
However, I’d still be interested in asking what kinds of scenes you worked on, especially ones that might have been cut before the film’s release. One of the other storyboard artists told me about the ribcage scene so are there other cut scenes you might know of? Even better would be if you could share some storyboards of such scenes (or any scenes overall) you still might have. And finally, I’d be happy to know if you have any knowledge or guesses about the continuation of the LBT franchise.
We understand that you may not want to share everything with us but even answering a few of these questions would mean a lot to me and many other members of an LBT fansite called the Gang of Five. You may also add some funny memories of your own if you want to and thank you already in advance for a possible answer!
Best Regards
....
-
Solid message, I would probably replace "the ribcage scene" with "a ribcage scene" if I was writing it but you don't have to. :duckyhappy
-
I already mentioned it on Discord but yeah, the message is sent.
-
Last week, I sent an email to the original film’s screenwriter, Stu Krieger (who Sovereign had contacted a couple of years ago). I asked him some questions about the oasis scene. We know it was going to be in the film, but we do not know when it was cut. So, I asked him if he knew about it, and if so, when it was cut. I wanted to know if it ended up being animated.
Hi ——,
It's always nice to hear from an LBT fan. As with any film, there were numerous iterations in the editing stages so there were a number of scenes that made it as far as the pencil-test animated version that didn' ultimately wind up in the film that was released. Some were cut for pacing, some were cut because they weren't adding new information to the overall plot and some were cut simply because (given the target audience) we wanted to keep the film tight and as engaging as possible. Even the addition of Rooter as the narrator came fairly late in the process. Viewing early cuts, we decided it would be helpful to have a "guide" filling in some of the backstory that we didn't want the young characters to articulate.
In terms of the oasis scene, we always strived to have the "all species should be able to coexist" message of the film remain subtext more than something that was repeatedly hammered home. In all of the story conferences we had along the way, involving Spielberg, Lucas, Bluth, the producers and me, we never spoke directly about specific scenes in terms of their sociological context but instead focused on the storytelling and structure that best supported the notion of creating an entertaining film. In all honesty, given that we worked on the film from 1984-1988 (more than 32 years ago) I remember that oasis sequence but am not sure if it made it to the animation stage or not. As I said, A LOT of things came and went as the script and cuts of the movie evolved.
Sorry I can't be more definitive but I hope this did shed some light on the process.
Best,
Stu Krieger
Professor
Department of Theatre, Film & Digital Production
University of California, Riverside
INTS 2122
As you can see, he wasn’t sure when it was cut, but it was probably a silly question by me as it was over 30 years ago. He did imply that the oasis scene was cut to tone down the racism aspect, as we know, so it wasn’t shoved in the face of viewers. It was nice to hear from him about how the story was produced. And, I myself did not know that Pat Hingle ended up voicing the narrator that late.
I have since followed up with a reply, asking him about a couple other scenes, so I will post his next response here if I get one!
-
Thak you very much, Stu Krieger. And thank you, Hypno!
It's first time I read how somebody tells about Rooter being Narrator. :D Though even without knowing who voices Narrator and Rooter, you can guess that their voices are very similar, and it makes sense. :D
and whoa, very early production was started somewhere in nineteen eighty FOUR? :O
sad we still didn't know if any part of Oasis sequence was colored.
-
Thank you for writing an email for Krieger, Hypno, and especially big thanks to Stu that he had the time to answer your questions. Reading about how the production evolved throughout the years was very fascinating! Let's hope that Stu will answer any further questions. I will be looking forward to them for sure! :CeraHAPPY
-
That's definitely a plus for the documentation side! Nice job getting that tidbit! :Mo
-
and whoa, very early production was started somewhere in nineteen eighty FOUR? :O
Yeah, that one sure had me puzzled. Most sources say the concept of “The Land Before Time Began” was created in 1985. In Sovereign’s message, Krieger himself said that they begun work on it in 1985.
-
I partially posted this on another thread, but last August I emailed Llyn Hunter again. The specific question was asking if future LBT installments could potentially expand upon the sci-fi elements hinted at with the Rainbow Faces in VII (don't ask). I got the following response:
Oh -:
My suggestion is to come up with a package that is not the current franchise but for a new dinosaur show based on what you are suggesting, and pitch it to Marvel / Disney or Warner's/ Cartoon network. You need to do some investigation work, find out who the current lot of producers are over at those studios, and tag up with them on Linked In - that's where they hang, if at all, on the internet.
Being a writer for animation is a tricky thing. It is ALL about the "who you know", not the "what you know." As a board artist, I'm actually on the bottom of the creative rungs of animation. Even though I get to make a great deal of the visual story decisions in the end, the main story is decided by a group of people I rarely even get to meet. Most of my connection to any writer is a name on a script. That any truly good writing gets done in any area of entertainment actually amazes me, considering how many hands the script goes through before I get it, and then the story is changed and refined dozens of times after it leaves my hands. Note that NO ONE related to the original product has any relationship to the current Land Before Time franchise. Like Scooby-doo and Batman, baby dinosaurs will always be popular. Executives don't make decisions because they are creative, they make them to 1. make money 2. because they think they are creative (Dunning-Kruger effect). Everyone who works in my industry has a good idea for a show. We have connections, and most of us don't pitch because we know what a total crap shoot it is. My advice it listen to Neil Gaiman's speech then do what he or Steven Spielberg did - fake your way into the business:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OwRUyZMKwI&t=363s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OwRUyZMKwI&t=363s)
Also, Universal Animation is a haphazard place currently run by https://www.linkedin.com/in/ellen-cockrill-1ba95b58/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ellen-cockrill-1ba95b58/) and she doesn't seem to look at her Linked In.
Remember, the best ideas in the world are in the dust bin or on the cutting room floor,
And on that cheary note, good luck, keep writing - and you at least found me, so maybe you can find someone who can make decisions,
Llyn