The Gang of Five
The forum will have some maintenance done in the next couple of months. We have also made a decision concerning AI art in the art section.


Please see this post for more details.

Categorizing music by Genre/Subgenre

action9000

  • Member+
  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 5742
    • View Profile
NewOrder started an interesting concept in the "A Look at Metal Music" topic: Can, or Should, a song be classified into a specific genre or subgenre of music?  I suspect strong opinions on both sides of this discussion.  Please try to keep flaming and harsh words out of this discussion.  Thanks. B)

I would like to say Yes, but categorizing music is not as simple as it appears.  The simple, broad genres such as Rock, Techno, Country, Classical (technically "Orchestral" is a better word, since "Classical" refers to an era in musical history, not the orchestral style of music), etc.

"Rock", "Classical" and "Techno" (I prefer the term "electronica" since techno can be considered a subgenre) are probably the most overused and least understood terms when describing music.  These three genres are actually "Major Genres", if you will, with the songs fitting into "subgenres" of each of these.  There are, of course, other "Major Genres", such as Country (iffy, since it can relate closely to rock), Ethnic (from a foreign culture), Bigband, Choral, A-capalla (related to choral), etc.  There are probably others which I can't recall at the moment.
  These definitions of main genres are purely off the top of my head.  They are certainly up for debate!  Feel free to add as you wish. :yes
A major genre is basically defines the instruments and general style with which the music is played.  I tend to think of the following:

Rock:
Consists of a small band (up to about 6 members).  Features at least 2 guitars (lead and bass) and a drum kit.  Other additions are at the discretion of the band, which help to decide the subgenre.

Orchestral: Features either a small (small variety and quantity of orchestral instruments) or full-sized orchestra.  The amount of focus placed on the orchestra (whether the receive all of the attention or if they are alongside a rock band or other insturments) helps to determine the subgenre.

Electronica: The music was generated by synthetic means, by use of
computers,
software or hardware synthesizers,
or audio samples -->(this is what I do :)).
The quantity of live performance and the style of the music helps determine the subgenre.  Hip-hop and rap generally falls in as a subgenre of electronica, as a huge percentange of hip-hop music is synthetically-generated.

Country: The modern version of this genre can be considered very similar to rock, with the general differences being the focus on pianos, fiddles, or other "honky-tonk"-style instruments, the lyrics of the song and the singing style.  Classic country can be considered significantly different from rock and "modern" country.

Bigband: Refers to a typical jazz band: trumpets, trombones, saxophones, possibly flutes and clarinets.  Similar in a way to orchestral, but a more clearly defined genre.

Choral: The primary focus of choral music is a group of human voices.  They are often used in conjunction with an orchestra as well.  A choir is generally a large group (perhaps 8 or more singers, divided up into approximately 4 (typical) parts) Pure Choral music is not common in popular culture.

A-capella: Similar to choral music in that it relies on a group of human voices to produce all of the music.  Generally, A-capella is a smaller group than a choir (maybe 4 or 5 singers.  4 is typical).

Spoken Word: Usually performed by a small group (1 or 2) with electronic or acoustic background accompaniment. Rap and spoken-word versions of songs fall into this category.



Now comes the fun: Nearly all songs do Not fit nicely into a single genre.  A song that drifts into two or more genres, I tend to refer to as a "fusion".  For example, one could say this song is a "Rock/orchestral fusion" if Rock is the primary (most prominent) element of music in the song, or an "Orchestral/Rock fusion" if orchestral is the primary element.  Of course, a song could easily spread 3 or more genres.  Electronica is an incredibly common genre to appear in music today, because it is so easy for anyone to add a drum beat or a few background effects to their song.  Name off 10 pieces of music and probably at least 5 of them have electronica elements to them unless they're pure orchestral.  Most "dance" songs today (with some exceptions of course, such as jazz) will consist of some element of electronica (usually the drum parts are computer-generated).

Subgenres
This is where categorizing music gets really interesting and complicated.  While a song may be Rock, is it more like Song A or more like Song B?  This is one basis behind defining the subgenre of a song.  Of course, sub-subgenres exist but I'm not going there just yet.:p   Rock, for example, can be broken down into these (and many more) subgenres:

Ballad Rock / Soft Rock
Classic Rock
Hard Rock
Metal (which is argueably a different Major Genre but I like to put it within rock because of the strong musical similarities)
Punk Rock
Emo (If you really want to go there :p)
Math Rock (don't ask...it does exist)

All of these subgenres can be further broken down into sub-subgenres to help group similar songs together and to help describe the sound of a particular song.

Tails and I had a discussion on MSN about whether the "Pop" genre exists.  While a conclusion wasn't reached, I hoped to address it here.  I am thinking of songs by bands like ATC (A Touch of Class), Aqua and the like.  I personally am starting to agree with Tails that "Pop" does Not really exist.  Instead, it's a pseudo-genre, based on the song.  In the case of "Around the World" by ATC, the song could be categorized as:

Electronica -> Techno -> Upbeat -> Dance -> Vocal -> 21st century -> Year 2000
...and so forth.  I would eventually define this song as being "21st-century vocal techno/dance", to be reasonably accurate.  A more precise definition could be made is desired.
One can break down songs into smaller and smaller groups until there is only a single song in the group.  It is similar to how species are scientifically categorized.  

A more complex genre breakdown would be for a song like "If We Hold On Together" (the Diana Ross version).  Let's try:

Rock -> Soft rock -> Other lyrical topic (not love song) -> Inspirational -> Feat. Piano -> 1980s -> 1988 -> ...
Orchestral -> Background orchestral elements -> ...
Electronica -> Downbeat -> Ballad -> Background -> Backgound synthesized sounds -> ...

That being said, "If We Hold On Together" could be classified as
1988 Inspirational Soft rock with orchestral and synth background.  One could go further if they wanted to.


Tails_155

  • Ducky
  • *
    • Posts: 1347
    • View Profile
    • http://xerofocusstudios.com/forums/portal.php
I truly have a problem with putting a "label on a lifestyle" as it were, music is too complicated to give a "label" all you're doing is "[watering] it down" (High Voltage)

music is to be appreciated by sound not by category, grouping is odd in itself really, what IS a rock song? a song with an electric guitar? heck, even R&B songs have electric guitars now... so where does the classification come from anyway?

Now, I personally say I like "rock" but I couldn't define rock for you, and I don't isolate myself to that 'genre' I probably listen to something of about every type of music every now and then...


action9000

  • Member+
  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 5742
    • View Profile
Quote
heck, even R&B songs have electric guitars now
One word: fusion.


DarkHououmon

  • Member+
  • Littlefoot
  • *
    • Posts: 7203
    • View Profile
    • http://bluedramon.deviantart.com
What is wrong with categorizing music? Movies are categorized. Books are categorized. Why not music?


action9000

  • Member+
  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 5742
    • View Profile
Quote
What is wrong with categorizing music? Movies are categorized. Books are categorized. Why not music?
I agree.

I totally understand that I took it too far in my first post LOL.  I don't usually think that way, I was just showing a point. :P:

Categories are great for explaining to others what a song sounds like before they hear it.  They also help you find new music. :yes


DarkHououmon

  • Member+
  • Littlefoot
  • *
    • Posts: 7203
    • View Profile
    • http://bluedramon.deviantart.com
Yeah.  If music wasn't categorized, then it would be difficult for an individual to find a song he or she likes.

I took a music course in High School in my final year. We learned different songs not just by sound, but by category. Music Categories were a big deal in class.


action9000

  • Member+
  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 5742
    • View Profile
Quote
I truly have a problem with putting a "label on a lifestyle" as it were, music is too complicated to give a "label" all you're doing is "[watering] it down" (High Voltage)
I'm sorry if I offended you.  I was just trying to get a discussion going.  I am going to add a disclaimer to my first post.  

Lifestyles are difficult to label but sometimes it's necessary.  Did your parents ever tell you to stay away from "bad people" or teach you "street smarts"?  Did you ever get a first impression from somebody?  Labelling people I think is something we do internally.  Whether or not its appropriate or accurate is questionable but I have noticed some patterns among people, based on their musical taste alone.  One can argue that music can be a guide to begin the process of learning the personality of a person.  Does learning a person's personality differ all that much from "labelling"?

Quote
music is to be appreciated by sound not by category
I agree with this as well.  I like categories just to help describe what I'm listening to to others.  It's also great if you're a band trying to explain your music to somebody else.

Quote
I took a music course in High School in my final year. We learned different songs not just by sound, but by category. Music Categories were a big deal in class.
Your school offered a course on categorizing music?  That's unique LOL. Kewl! :lol:


DarkHououmon

  • Member+
  • Littlefoot
  • *
    • Posts: 7203
    • View Profile
    • http://bluedramon.deviantart.com
Quote
Your school offered a course on categorizing music? That's unique LOL. Kewl!

The program was Topics in Music and that was one of the major things covered. Other things we learned about music included listening to it with an open-mind, even silence is music, different types of dances, the importance of music in the daily lives of others, how the role of music changes depends on where you go, etc. It was quite an interesting course. We also played Music Jeopardy. That was fun. :p



Tails_155

  • Ducky
  • *
    • Posts: 1347
    • View Profile
    • http://xerofocusstudios.com/forums/portal.php
oh, not offended, and don't think I don't categorize, I just don't prefer it, I try to avoid it as much as I can


NewOrder

  • Member+
  • Ducky
  • *
    • Posts: 1371
    • View Profile
    • No Sense of Reason
I agree with tails. Categorizing makes it simple for you to find an album in a music store, to know what goes on in a bar, and toknow what a music festival is all about. But, personally I don't like doing it. In my CD collection, I don't have any particular order, I just put them there, and listen to the ones I want at a certain moment. When I'm discribing a band, I don't I send people a song to see if they like it or not.
I'm hip, I'm cool. I'm a happening fool


Petrie.

  • Hatchling
  • *
    • Posts: 0
  • It's good to be the king!
    • View Profile
"Math Rock" sounds like something you'd get out of those Schoolhouse Rock videos. :lol: :lol:

I'm not super picky when I classify stuff....here's my simple system.  If it came on a soundtrack album to a film, the whole thing is labeled "Soundtrack" regardless if there are vocal pieces in there or something that might be labeled rock or jazz....it still came from a soundtrack that was meant to be played with other tracks and will stay as such.  Pop is anything that at one time (or still is) garnered millions of followers (i.e. Michael Jackson's "Thriller" album).  I have a much harder time with this "Rock" category.  Usually if it has drums, bass, guitar, a lead singer and some backup singers produced between 1975 and present, its rock in my book.  If its in a soft tone with smooth lyrics its "soft rock" (most of Karen Carpenter's work goes in here).  If there is accoustic strings such as fiddles or banjo, its "country".

Really I don't make it harder than it has to be for myself. :p


action9000

  • Member+
  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 5742
    • View Profile
Quote
"Math Rock" sounds like something you'd get out of those Schoolhouse Rock videos.
I Knew somebody was going to say that! LOL :lol  :lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Math_rock

I think your post summed everything up nicely, Petrie.  There are general relationships between similar kinds of music but each band is certainly unique in its own way.