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Mr.Thicknose

Saft · 22 · 4102

Saft

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Last week, I decided to watch LBT 8 as I hadn't really watched it properly for a couple of years nor did I really appreciate any of the minor characters.

I have to say that I was pleasantly suprised that after watching the film, I found that as the focus was set on Mr.Thicknose I began to really appreciate and actually like this character.  It may have something to do with the voice actor being Rafiki from the Lion King, thus Lion King roots but I really liked how he described himself when he was younger.  I could actually relate, as I was like that when I was a young child.  

(Also; my apologises if there has been a Mr.Thicknose topic before, I looked on the forum but there didn't seem to be one.)


Malte279

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I'm sure he was mentioned and discussed in threads elsewhere in the GOF, but I don't think he ever got a thorough thread just for himself so far.
One thing that I've always been thinking about was that scene in which he happens to overhear the kids plan to leave the Valley to follow Spike and Ducky. He was lying there motionless under the blanket of snow at a spot where he would not expect anyone to ever pass by. When Littlefoot asked him what he was doing he just told Littlefoot in a rather resigned tone to ask no more questions...
So what WAS he doing?
To me it looked very much like he had given up on live and laid down there to die (as a result from his precious dignity being in shards after what had happened). Perhaps he considered it kind of a twist of fate that Littlefoot and the others passed just there where he lay enabling him to overhear them and thereby hearing about what they were up to and seeing a chance to regain the recognition of everyone else. Would he have accompanied the kids rather than just stopping them from leaving the Valley if he had not seen the chance to redeem himself (I guess that we can take his seeing the chance to redeem himself almost for a fact which I admit that my interpretation of his determination to die is merely my interpretation of fact that cannot be proven or disproven).
One odd thing about him is that nobody else knows about his being born in the Great Valley and having never left it. I wonder how many of the inhabitants of the Great Valley have actually been born there (he is the only one of whom we know this for sure). In any case his story suggests that none of those who are living in the Great Valley during the time of the LBT movies have been there for a very long time already. I guess that point is just one of the minor logic flaws that cannot always been avoided in LBT stories.


Saft

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Yes, I agree with you.  
Although, I haven't actually thought about what Thicknose was doing up there I just took it as though he was staying out of everyone's way, after all everyone was very angry with him over the snow fall.

As for not everyone else knowing that he had never left the Great Valley, perhaps those who knew and were born in the valley either died or moved on?  After all, Mr.Thicknose was the oldest inhabitant of the Great Valley.



Kor

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I had assumed he was staying out of everyone's way, though it is odd to do that near one of the entrances of the great valley, another one of those odd things that happen just to help the plot along.


Malte279

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It may well be that I'm over-interpreting things there. But even if he merely meant to stay out of everyone's way, it is rather odd that he allowed himself to be snowed in and his tone also sounded very worn down in that scene.
It may be that he had such thoughts in mind but would not have pulled them through. I think that Mr. Thicknose may have (a bit similar to Pterano) a certain fancy for theatralics to which such an "I let myself be buried in snow because I have been humiliated" kind of attitude would fit well.


DarkWolf91

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I always liked Mr. Thicknose as well, I found him very endearing. I never really interpreted him following the children as a means to redeem himself in the eyes of the other adults. I saw it as more of a longing to actually step foot outside of the valley. Maybe he was debating to set forth in the first place but couldn't convince himself to do it, and that's why he was lying by the entrance. I haven't seen 8 in a while, though.



Malte279

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Excellent point DarkWolf91 :yes
I'm quite sure this too was a motivation for him. His reaction to the landscape and rocks he saw (in the scene before he confessed his fibbing) strongly suggests that he really wanted to see the wonders he had heard and told about so often. I guess both, his longing to see the world outside as well as his wish to redeem himself may have played a role at the same time.


Kor

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Maybe he was thinking of waiting till the visiting herd was leaving and maybe leaving with them since he wasn't wanted in the Great Valley or the folks there were angry with him.  Maybe he wasn't sure if he was going to leave with them but was thinking it over.


Malte279

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This would not explain though why he did not even bother to stay unburied by snow. Also the herd, though not outrightly racist, seemed to be "Spiketails only" outfit; unlike the farwalkers in LBT 7. I guess the herd would have been similar to that of Ali's. The Old one in LBT 4 invited the other longnecks from the Great Valley to join the herd, but never mentioned anyone else. I don't see the leader of the LBT 8 herd warming up for non-spiketails in his herd out of sheer kindness (the episode "Forbidden Friendship" further supports the view that he would not be overly welcoming towards others).


Saft

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Basing on what Dark Wolf mentioned, perhaps Mr.Thicknose (as he felt that he wasn't welcome in the valley anymore) maybe was debating whether to migrate away so that he could see all the wonders he had been told.  I think it was pure chance that Littlefoot, Cera and Petrie had come across that he decided to accompany them.  Although he does mention to them that their parents would never forgive him if they had left with him seeing them go.  So, if we take that into account, he would have seized an opportunity to accompany them (so based on Malte's theory) perhaps to redeem himself in the eyes of the members of the valley's dinosaurs and he would get to see some of the wonderful destinations that had been told.

If that makes some sense.

I have been thinking this over though and although an opinion is not fully formed, I was thinking that if he was the eldest member of the valley's dinosaurs surely those who had been living in the Great Valley at the time of his childhood or adulthood would either still be around?  Perhaps, those who had been there moved on with the 'far-walkers' migrating dinosaurs whom they joined as mates/friends or wanting to see further of the world when they left (going on what Mr.Thicknose said (he was very shy when he was young) moved on, perhaps Mr.Thicknose may have wanted to go with the various migrates that visited the valley but never had the courage to go until Littlefoot and his friends came along?


pokeplayer984

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The only thing I REALLY want to comment on was how great it was when Mr. Thicknose's voice changed.  He just sang SO much better in the TV Series. :D


The Friendly Sharptooth

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Ah, one of those "deep" topics. While I have no theory of my own about Mr. Thicknose, I do agree with Malte279's theory of him no longer wishing to live, and listed my reasoning for doing so. I likely made several errors in my understanding of him, but I tried my best.

For one thing, by him telling Littlefoot to ask nothing else, I believe he meant that literally, not the everyday usage generally meaning "don't bother me right now." He seems to be the type of character who means word for word whatever he says. That attribute doesn't automatically make someone honest, I just meant that he doesn't really seem to be a big fan of metaphors, puns, and figures of speech. No messages to be assumed, just to be taken at face value.

My point being is that, since he seemed to spend his life teaching others, saying "no more questions" seems to indicate he has given up on teaching, since teaching and being asked questions go hand in hand. So since his life seemed to revolve around that job, without it, it may just be that he no longer wished to live, for without a purpose, there tends to be a lack of will.

Secondly however, would be his standing in the cold long enoug to have been covered by snow. His common knowledge certainly seems abundant, if not only for the fact he has lived so long and has experience. I know that the snow in the valley was the first to have been seen by the returning characters, but if the eight movie isn't so far after the first time-wise, perhaps it had snowed there several times but the main characters are seeing it there for the first time.

My point being there is that, as is common knowledge that in cold weather you must keep your body moving to stay warm if without proper covering, perhaps he just stood there so his body would eventually freeze. It was certainly not that he enjoyed standing there, as his tone of voice with his question response displayed much discomfort on his part. If someone is uncomfortable, he or she tends to resolve that, so by remaining uncomfortable for so long (the length is revealed by the amount of snow on him) it would seem his comfort no longer mattered, indicating perhaps that his life no longer mattered to him, thus he remained suffering, hoping (or at least knowing) that his end would certainly come.

When he saw Littlefoot, Cera, and Petrie leaving the valley and learned what they were intending, you could tell his outlook on life brightened, since his countenance brightened and his voiced displayed some pleasantry as he said, "I'm going with you."

If Malte279's theory is correct, then you might say, as Littlefoot was the one who insisted that they go into the Mysterious Beyond after Ducky and Spike, that he saved Mr. Thicknose's life. If he hadn't decided to leave, Mr. Thicknose would have most likely stayed under the snow until he was no more, since he apparently had no intention of moving before he saw them.

Also, in response to Saft saying how he agreed to go with them because their parents wouldn't forgive him if they all knew he just let them go, perhaps he did just want to see the wonders of beyond the Great Valley, and so maybe saying that to the kids was just a decoy reason for leaving, since he was already in bad standing with some others there, and he may have simply not wanted to say that he just wanted to see the outside, because that would give away his secret which had not yet been revealed. Again, just an agreement, not a whole new theory. Later!


Saft

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You've certainly highlighted many points that I wished to do Sharp.  One small point though, the Great Valley may have had snow but if I recall Mr.Thicknose had never seen snow before and as it was mentioned he was the oldest member of the Great Valley's dinosaurs.

I do think that he may have just been debating with himself (I do this frequently and tend to be immobile) at the entrance/exit over whether or not to see these places for himself after all he didn't have much to loose now, due to loosing his dignity and status among the valley's dinosaurs.  So, perhaps he may have been debating whether to set 'foot' and leave the valley where he was born and raised....


Littlefoot3897

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I agree with Malte, I think Mr. Thicknose was laying there in the snow to die.

I think Mr. Thicknose was a cool character. Not my favorite but he still cool  :yes


DarkWolf91

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I agree with Saft, Mr. Thicknose could have simply been debating with himself. And if he's as indecisive ad dome people I know, that fact that he was lying there long enough to be covered in snow is hardly surprising, haha.
Also, in regards to Sharp's mention of comfort, I think that that Mr. Thicknose would have been very depressed in the midst of what must have seemed to him a hopeless situation. I'm certainly not saying that everyone's reaction to depression is the same, but I know a lot of people who will willingly subject themselves to discomfort or at least make no effort to remove themselves from discomfort when they are depressed or feeling a decrease in perceived self-worth, the later of which I'm sure he must have been.
I think it was more drama on his part than an actual intention to lay there until all life left him... But that theory is definitely interesting.



Malte279

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Quote
I think it was more drama on his part than an actual intention to lay there until all life left him.
This may well be. I could imagine that he lay down there possibly with the actual intention to die and wailing in self-pity, but even if he did have that intention it is not set in stone that he would have really pulled it through to the end. Perhaps he was actually hoping that someone would find him. But if no one had there still is a chance that (even if he planned to die there) he might have given up on that after a while.
As for his conduct however (letting himself be snowed in and talking in a really dejected tone asking for no more questions to be asked etc.) I think it is quite likely that some thought of giving up on life was probably involved in his lying there. If he would have really been "consequent" on this is a different question.


Saft

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Continuing on the depression; I do think the depression theory is plausible after all Mr.Thicknose spent many years gaining the reputation that (although he didn't truly deserve because he did lie) he needed and then due to one incident he lost it all, the respect, dignity and the good reputation.  Perhaps then he would become depressed.


EggStealerGirl

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At first, I didn't like how he was so upset of Littlefoot trying to steal his thunder, but as his overall character transformed near the end of the movie, he kind of grew on me...

I'm also kind of curious on what it exactly was that motivated him to lie in the first place!


StrutEggStealer

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I love Mr. Thicknose, he seemed so much like Pterano in some ways. :)

I just loved how gruff he was, but at the same time he was really sort of scared and vulnerable. Especially that part at the ends, when he says to littlefoot's grandparents "you should be very proud". That whole scene with him and Littlefoot coming to an understanding was just so powerful^^
"Not all who wander are lost"
J. R. R. Tolkein


DaveTheAnalyzer

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I do like Mr. Thicknose. He’s the classic guest character who interacts with the gang and ends up transformed for the better, and I like he popped up again in the TV series. When we first meet him, he’s dry and didn’t seem to be a very happy. He reeled out facts partly out of seriousness related to his position and partly out of automatic pilot. He displayed annoyance and some disdain for Littlefoot’s questions, which did make him kind of unlikeable. There was fear of his lies being found out and his dignity tarnished but I wonder if he actually believed at points that he did know nearly everything and didn’t take well to being unwittingly reminded his knowledge stood on tenuous grounds.

When snow came, plunging his reputation involving that knowledge into the toilet, he seemed broken and lonely. Though some might have sympathized with his plight, it didn’t appear many helped him. When the gang found him while searching for Ducky, he appeared to want to be away from people and all of the negative and maybe even well-intentioned reactions to his reputation. I don’t know if he intended to die or not, but stripped of who he was for most of his life, he probably felt adrift and lost. I think he was truthful when saying the kids needed some looking after, believing he could at least do that right.

Through his explorations of the Mysterious Beyond with the gang, genuine sparks of fascination slipped through. That curiosity must have been buried so long while pretending to be all-knowing. When those moments slipped out and the gang put together he wasn’t all-knowing, Mr. Thicknose thought he might as well come clean about his second-hand knowledge. Being honest and going on an adventure with the gang did him some good. He comes to allow himself to be openly curious about the world and if he doesn’t know something, it isn’t a blow to his dignity. His relationship to Littlefoot and his friends becomes far more positive as a result.

Though the change in VAs and how he’s portrayed in the TV series might be incidental, I believe this matches with his development in movie 8. He’s more energetic especially when it comes to teaching and helping out the gang as well as learning more about the world. When the gang approaches him about the story of invisible dinosaurs like the Hidden Runner, he isn’t as disbelieving and is even eager to come to the bottom of the mystery.

I do enjoy how he grew a positive relationship with the boy as movie 8 went on and that stuck with the TV series. It’s pretty sweet. His snips with Mr. Threehorn can be pretty amusing. I wonder how he and Ruby get along. They along with Littlefoot all share a natural curiosity about the world, so I can see the pair forming a connection in asking one another for advice and questions, and enjoying investigating something together. It would have been nice to explore his relationship to other members of the gang more.

Whatever his issues, I hope spends his last years still learning and exploring while remaining close to the gang.