The Gang of Five
The Land Before Time => General Land Before Time => Topic started by: pokeplayer984 on December 07, 2005, 11:17:17 AM
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I finally got to see 10, and I'm at a loss for words.
Reason why, is because from what I've heard about it, it's rather underrated to me. People just don't seem to understand it, and what we don't understand, we misjudge.
I don't see where Bron's story doesn't make sense. Give me where it doesn't make sense, and I bet I can show you how it does. (Understand though, it's a little complex and not that simple to understand.)
One thing I found incredibly interesting is Shorty. From what I heard, I was expecting something rather kind and simple. I was surprised when I found Shorty was a, dare I say it, bully. The way he treated Littlefoot, it seemed that he wanted nothing to do with him. In a simple understanding, he wanted to be his enemy. They say that the greatest test of making a friend is making one out of your enemy. Littlefoot accomplished that and made a friend I would've never expected him to have.
Finally, what surprised me most, was with where it was going, those seeing it for the first time, and having zero knowledge of 11 existing, (Though nowadays I don't see how that's possible.) would think that 10 was it for the gang. That it was over basically. The final song, "Best Friends", was basically a goodbye song. If Littlefoot did go with his dad, that would've been it. With just a few steps of Littlefoot's goodbye, the series would've ended. However, I now see that his friends are a part of his life that he doesn't want to let go. The gang is more like a family than anything else. Splitting family apart is very hurtful. I can understand how it feels myself. It's just hard to let go.
To me, in all truth, 10 is misunderstood. There's more to it then realized. Of course, with how complex of a piece of work it is, I'm not too surprised others misunderstand it now that I think about it.
In conclusion, I was expecting this to suck and found it to be one of the best. It's just misunderstood to some. That's all there is to it.
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Being one of the most notorious critics of the land before time 10 I reckon it is for me to give some answers on your questions.
I don't see where Bron's story doesn't make sense. Give me where it doesn't make sense, and I bet I can show you how it does. (Understand though, it's a little complex and not that simple to understand.)
1. To explain all the discrepancies of Bron's story, we need to remember the original movie. The story he is telling must have begun shortly before the beginning of the original land before time movie.
Yet where were Bron and Littlefoot's mother (whom they didn't bother to give so much as the same color she had in the original movie) in a lush, green, Great Valley like landscape. The landscape they showed was just a perfect nesting place for Bron and his wife. There was no point for him to leave his pregnant wife to look for a better place. They had a really good place already!
2. The way Bron tells the story it appears that almost the moment he left the world turned upside down and changed into the desolate wasteland we know from the original movie. This is highly unlikely and doesn't seem at all the way the situation is described in the original movie. Even if it was a sudden change from paradise to wasteland, would not a responsible Bron have returned immediately to find his wife and unborn hatchling? According to his tale he did, but if this was true, how come he didn't find them? First of all, if there was such a sudden change of situation I reckon Littlefoot's mother would have waited for Bron as long as possible, as she and her parents (the way the contact between Bron and Littlefoot's grandparents is shown we can take it for granted they are not Bron's parents) knew he was going to return as soon as he could (if he ever meant to return). Even if lack of food forced them to move on after all (Bron must have been really far away indeed not to be back by that time) it would have been easy enough for Bron to follow the fresh trail of three grownup longnecks (As Cera pointed out in LBT 10 they leave clear tracks) who certainly tried to leave a clear trail for Bron to follow. There is absolutely no justification why Bron didn't return to his wife right away!
3. So even if we assume that, in his overeagerness to find even better a nesting place for his dear wife, Bron had wandered so far off that he couldn't possibly be back in time to pick up the trail and reunite with his wife his eagerness to find Littlefoot may be doubted for the points I'm going to explain.
The existence of the Great Valley was obviously not a secret. Littlefoot told Ducky in the original movie that his mother had told him that all herds were heading there. Yet Bron, despite the fact he claims to have done everything to find his son (even after learning about the death of his wife) apparently didn't think to look at the most logical place. Was he the only one who never ever heard about the Great Valley? Even if nobody ever told him it is interesting to recall how Littlefoot's mother knew about the Great Valley "Some things you see with your eyes! Others you see with your heard!" Apparently Bron's heart never told him anything, a point I won't argue as I doubt so cold a heart as his would talk.
However, there is no justification for Bron never ever to search for his son at the place that was obviously the most logical destination for him to go!
4. I can hear the enraged shouts. How dare I calling this gentle longneck and great leader cold-heartet?
I'll lay it out to you. We are all very fond of him for taking care of Shorty and all the poor defenseless longneck kids he found when he was allegedly looking for his son. But he doesn't! Just take a look at that flashback. He checks whether his son is among the kids, finds he isn't, and moves on. Bron doesn't even open his mouth. No word of encouragement, no question if they know anything about the whereabouts of his son, and least of all an invitation to the kids to come along with him. He didn't decide to take care of the kids. They just followed him, knowing it would be safer for them and Bron apparently didn't mind. He did not offer his protection to them, they just took it.
Shorty in particular is a good example for Bron's indifference. You think Shorty (a character by the way whom I consider one of the positive points about LBT 10) would have ever turned into a bully if Bron had cared about him beyond saving him from being killed so long he stayed close enough? Throughout the whole movie the only scene in which Bron shows direct kindness to Shorty is when during the herd's departure he takes him onto his head. Shorty might have considered Bron a father, but Bron did not consider him a son. Just listen to what he told Littlefoot. All the others found parents, but not Shorty. I really pity Shorty. Bron seems to be more like a leader than a parent to him. It is not for kindness that Bron took care of anyone!
5. Speaking of taking care, let's take a look at how much Bron cares about his herd. He says he cannot accompany Littlefoot and his grandparents to the Great Valley as he has to go back to his herd. Now that's noble, isn't it? He would so much like to come along with his son, but he will sacrifice his personal luck for the wellbeing of his herd which apparently cannot survive a day without him...
But wait a second, is not the herd supposed to be right there, at the crater where the solar eclipse occurred? All longnecks were supposed to be there!
We know that all longnecks were not there. Ali and her herd was missing and so was Doc. There must have been quite a few who either didn't have that dream or didn't get there in time. But how is it possible that Bron and a part of his herd was there, but another part wasn't? There is no doubt that not all of Bron's herd was there, as he told Littlefoot he was looking forward to introduce him to the rest of the herd. Now can you give me a reason why Bron would leave what must be a considerable part of the herd rather than leading all of them there? I have a theory and as you may expect it doesn't cast a positive light on Bron, but I beg you to give me a better reason.
It appears that Bron left behind the part of his herd that was too slow to make it to the crater in time for the solar eclipse. If he really did, doesn't that mean that he must've left the old, the weak, the too young kids etc. behind? Not the kind of herd members a good leader should leave to their fate! I just hope he left some strong longnecks behind to protect them. Bron must have something that makes other dinosaurs follow him, but he doesn't show any of the responsibility true leadership demands!
6. Did you notice how Bron talked to Littlefoot about sharpteeth? "Sharpteeth are cowards!" Even though the statement seems to apply to the extremely harmless sharpteeth in the land before time 10 I wish he would say that into the face of the sharptooth who killed Littlefoot's mother!
Bron's statement is a generalization and it is also quite insensitive talking this way in front of Littlefoot whose mother was killed by a sharptooth. Also I wonder if Littlefoot thought of Chomper when his father said this. Wouldn't Chomper be a perfect counterproof? It does take courage to attack a grownup sharptooth while you are still a hatchling, and it does take courage (even for a grownup sharptooth) to attack huge leafeaters.
Bron doesn't need to fear sharpteeth, for he is invulnerable! We see a sharptooth biting his leg, but it doesn't cause much more than an "Ouch". We don't see a scratch, Bron doesn't limb or anything. They could've made all this so much more dramatic if they had stirred up some memories about the death of Littlefoot's mother. Bron is arrogant and invulnerable!
7. Bron had given Littlefoot up! Even though he apparently never heard anything about him after learning about the death of his mother, he just stopped looking. What Bron says to Littlefoot is: "I can't wait to introduce you to the others back home". The statement leaves no doubt that Bron's herd is not a herd of migrators (as Ali's) but has one place to stay, similar to the Great Valley I suppose. This fact does weaken the reproach of Bron being irresponsible for leaving the herd to head for the place where the solar eclipse takes place. So long he leaves them at a save, protected place...
However, it also raises the question why they depend on him at all. If they are in a place save enough to be left behind there by Bron (a place where they have stayed long enough to call it home), what for do they need a leader anyway? The Great Valley doesn't have one leader either, and there is not a one of the dinosaurs in the Great Valley that is so important for the Valley that his or her departure would cause any serious harm for the Valley's population.
8. Finally, if Bron was indeed so great and admirable character, how come that in nine previous movies he was so much ignored, that Littlefoot didn't even know he had a dad? Was there a good reason for Littlefoot's grandparents to try to conceal Bron from Littlefoot? Perhaps so. Littlefoot's grandparents may well have intended not to tell Littlefoot about Bron, fearing that he would risk his life trying to find his father. Still I'm not sure that explaination justifies leaving Littlefoot so ignorant he didn't even know he had a Dad.
I haven't yet mentioned every single point that make me dislike Bron, but as this thread is not only about him, but also about LBT 10 in general there are several more points I would like to address:
9. The whole story about all longnecks having the same dream which makes them heading for the same place should at least have been better explained. We know Littlefoot's grandparents from nine previous land before time movies (okay, make that eight as they didn't really play an active part in the original movie). From those movies we know Littlefoot's grandparents as very careful characters (just think of any scene when there is talk about the Mysterious Beyond). Yet in the land before time 10 their decision to leave the Great Valley (just two old longnecks and a kid) appears a really rash one. I'm sure these dreams were something important enough if we had been told a bit more about it. It would have been time for a "some things you see with your eyes others you see with your hard"-type of message. Maybe they could've even included something more than dreams by just making the legend Pat told a just a little more known. That would have been a reason I would feel much more comfortable about.
10. Another example of strange behaviour of characters concerns Cera's, Petrie's, Ducky's, and Spike's reaction upon learning that Littlefoot considers leaving them. The scene is the emotional climax of the movie and I really like the song "Bestest friends". But don't you find they seem to have a bit too less of a problem to let Littlefoot go for good? They hardly stop smiling upon hearing the news and they don't make the slightest attempt to keep Littlefoot with them. Highly considerate behaviour no doubt, but after all they have gone through together I would have expected at least an incling of true reluctance to give him up for somebody who could just as well come to the Great Valley.
11. The animation of the movie also had several shortcommings in my opinion:
The way they showed the solar-eclipse was very unrealistic. They showed the moon as a black circle long before it even came in front of the sun and the colouring of the sky too appeared almost as if a solar eclipse the way it is is not spectacular enough, they even felt they had to put a shower of shooting stars in, like a solar eclipse was not spectacular enough.
I experienced a solar eclipse in August 1999 and memorized my impressions. It was amazing. The eclipse could be felt before one saw it. The temperatur suddenly dropped and the air became chilly. There was no sudden shadow falling whose edge one could see, but the light became twilight and finally darkness when the moon moved before the sun...
They have the habit to tinge the sky red almost always when there is danger since LBT 5. I never liked this. This bad habit had a "tragic" climax in LBT 10 that gave me a real shudder. Not only the sky, but also the landscape, my goodness, even the characters turned red!
Unlike most other people I do not like the new 3D animation very much, at least not all of it. There are elements created by the computer which fit very well to the hand-drawn characters or landscapes. The water in LBT 9 for example looked great. However, much of the photo realistic pictures to me looks almost as if it had been taken from a different movie and just "inserted" into LBT (the mossy tree-branch Littlefoot climbs up for example).
^ Note that the last three points are mainly a matter of taste rather than anything fact based, so they just represent my subjective opinion.
12. The sharpteeth were just stupid! What has become of the impressive sharpteeth from the original movies and sequels 2, 3, 5, 6, and 9? I already pointed out that Bron is invulnerable to sharpteeth bites, but that Shorty can trip a grownup sharptooth by creeping under it's foot is a real outrage!
Remember the sharptooth from the original movie. What do you think would have happened if a longneck had crawled under its foot? That’s right! And that is why young longnecks should not deliberately crawl under a sharptooth's foot!
Then there was the thing with the stones. I really don't think that any of the LBT characters is strong enough to kick or hurl a stone large enough to do more than bother a sharptooth over such far a distance. A sharptooth tripling about a few little stones thrown in front of his feet... really that must be either extremely smooth and slippery stones or an extremely clumsy sharptooth. The sharpteeth in LBT 10 were for my opinion almost reduced to a ridiculous entertainment for the young dinosaurs! That's not what sharpteeth are supposed to be.
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^ I've a feeling whatever he said, I agree with since I've heard Malte's take on this before. ;) Good idea gone bad.
Also, let's remember who we are--teens or twenty-somethings. We overanalyze these films because we can. An eight year old isn't going to care whether Bron had actually given Littlefoot up for dead or not. It's a new character. And hey...that solar eclipse looked pretty darn cool on that widescreen tv! :rolleyes: Now, I've never seen one, but I really don't think the whole atmosphere turns purple.
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Whoa! Malte279, I think you're too much of a hardcore LBT fan. (Meant to be a compliment.) However, you do make good points that make the story rather confusing now that I look at it from this angle.
I'm really going to have to do some deep research to really come up with something. Give me a little time here. I'm pretty sure his story is true, I'm just going to have to find something that will prove it.
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I think you're too much of a hardcore LBT fan.
With all the pros and cons, no doubt :lol:
A con of course is that it is much harder for me to be really satisfied with a story which most others can wholeheartedly enjoy.
I'm most happy that the length of the message did not stop you from reading it. Maybe I am being unfair by blaming Bron. It is more like the creators of LBT 10 showed a disappointing lack of care. From a strictly inside LBT point of view however we cannot have Littlefoot complaining about the ones who invented the stories he is going to. So it is Bron I have to question.
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Okay, I have carefully studied what you have said to me, and have come to one little conclusion of why Bron's story didn't make sense to you...
You took it FAR too seriously.
Now, understand that the various counterproofs I'm going to make are rather confusing, but understandable. Also, understand that it's going to take all of them together to prove Bron's innocence. So please, if I don't finish, don't try to counterproof me, because it takes ALL the points I will make to prove me right.
1. To get point one out of the way, there is not really a 100% indication of when such a change happened. Nor is there any real indication of how it happened. For all we know, it could've been anything to make such a change. Obviously, whatever was coming, both of Littlefoot's parents saw it coming and prepared for the worst the best they could. Also, just because it's lush and green, doesn't mean that it's safe. This is proven to us in the second movie. Despite the Great Valley being such a great place, it still has it's dangers. Plus, with how it was desgined, we can easily confirm that Sharpteeth probably attacked wherever it all started every single day. (That big hole that Bron went through to exit wherever they lived is probably as big as the one The Great Wall had.) It was not the place for Littlefoot to grow up. Plus, take a look at Littlefoot's nest right when we see him as an egg. There are 5 of them total, including Littlefoot. 4 of them were sadly broken into. With such dangers, Littlefoot's lucky to even be alive. It proved to be very unsafe.
Now, going back to the first movie, we know that the leaves were beginning to die, yet we don't know what caused such a thing to happen. However, with this information, there is no doubt that the cause destroyed a good amount of the food that was provided. With danger and a coming cause that made a very big lack of food, there was no choice but to leave.
2. Like I said, there is no real indication dictating of when the dramatic change happened. He could've been gone for days before it happened. Let's put in the most logical thing that would make it happen, a metor. As I read in an article once that indicated the most likely cause of the dinosaurs' extinction, a metor striking the earth makes dramatic changes. Not only does the sun get blocked out, but any volcanoes nearby become VERY active, making them spew out an uncontrolable amount of lava and ash. (We have to suggest a volcano being nearby in order to make such a tropical place existable.) Earthquakes strike at a multitude that is unnormal, and worst of all, the dust and ash that is carried into the atmosphere causes acid rain. Destroying all the leaves it hits. The metor wasn't as big as the one that killed off the dinosaurs, but it was still big enough to cause quite some damage.
So, if it was a metor, than it was a sudden change, it just didn't happen until a good time after Bron left.
Also, what I like to call "The Great Earthshake", the one in the first movie, was the earthquake of all earthquakes. It could easily destroy footprints without even trying, even the biggest. It could also mess up the trail in just one second. Plus, even if the trail was lucky to survive, it would've been easily cut up by "a rise of vertical rock."
He said that he returned to the nest JUST AS THE EARTHQUAKE HIT. There was no way for him to follow them because of The Great Earthshake.
Okay, I have to leave this for now, but I will finish it.
Remember, it takes ALL my points to prove Bron's innocence.
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Hi pokeplayer984!
I will wait for your other points before writing anything.
I want to say that I'm most delighted that not only you read the message but also seriously consider points but don't just waver from your own points :)
Really I appreciate this very, very much and I'm looking forward to a discussion that need not to end with either of us being convinced of the other one's points, but that will certainly help us to understand the points of the other one.
I would be happy if in the future I can have a kinder image of Bron in mind, but my own quest for points on his behalf was not successful (which may also be because of what is a personal problem I have with LBT 10 apart from the facts, namely that it contradicts a story I have been writing since 2002. Of course this may have clouded my objective vision to a certain degree).
I'm looking forward to how this discussion will continue :yes
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Okay, continuing on then.
3. Getting around point three was probably the most time consuming, but once I found something rather important, it was very easy.
I have no doubt that he was trying to find his son. Also, he was told of the Sharptooth incident, and who out there really knows of such an incident? As we have come to know, VERY FEW came to know of such a thing. He was very lucky to even run into someone who knew of Littlefoot's Mother dying.
Oh sure, someone probably did tell him of The Great Valley, however after carefully studying Bron's character, I came to a rather startiling conclusion with something I'm VERY familiar with. Bron isn't coldhearted, he's dense! :o
Dense charcters many times show such coldhearted like character that I am quite familiar in seeing with Bron. The obviousness doesn't come to them and they have to be basically told right in the face of such a thing. THAT is a VERY common thing with denseness.
With Bron being dense, he didn't even think to look in The Great Valley.
4. Like I said, obviousness doesn't come to those who are dense.
I basically believe that someone like him would conclude that someone was nearby to take care of them when he first met them. Later, after a good amount of time that we didn't see, he probably asked them, "Why are you following me?" They simply tell him that they have no one to take care of them. So, seeing no other conclusion, he just simply makes the offer.
He's obviously not aware of how much Shorty looks up to him. Those who are dense only see someone who is born of their blood as their son. Littlefoot basically saw this, and that was the reason why he made the offer to Shorty for them to be brothers. Littlefoot understood that Bron just basically didn't see it and did what he could to make Bron see that.
Littlefoot knew that Shorty saw Bron as a father, yet because of Bron's denseness, he didn't see Shorty as a son. Before Littlefoot was told that Shorty wasn't adopted by Bron, I believe that Littlefoot believed because of how much Shorty looks up to Bron that he was possibly an adopted member of the family. Sadly, that was not true.
With Bron being dense, it's hard for him to see someone he cares about as family and only blood is seen as family to denseness.
5. Okay, this one was really tough, and I thought you had me, but then I thought of something and you won't believe it.
They say that the greatest of friends are the hardest to leave. Despite being dense, he has such a close bond with the herd, that it's just too hard to leave them.
I know what you're saying there, "Strange that he doesn't have such a strong bond with Shorty then." However, denseness is something that's rather difficult to understand. With denseness, it's just a thing of "don't ask, just know" jurisdiction that you have to go with.
He, as a dense leader, would understand whatever reason others had to not go and not ask questions about it.
Yet again, "don't ask, just know."
There are those who are stubborn, and despite them possibly having the dream, they didn't see it as something to look forward to. (I wouldn't be surprised if this was the view of "Old One." Which would explain why Ali's herd isn't there.)
"Don't ask, just know."
I will also agree that there are those who didn't believe in him because they didn't have the dream. A few of them might be strong ones. So there is a good possiblity that he did leave those behind that are strong, yet didn't believe him.
Once again, "Don't ask, just know."
The point of "Don't ask, just know" thing really makes you have a different view of it all in the end I bet.
I will get to the other points later. I don't have the time right now, but I promise to get to them when I can.
(Wait until you see how I do the next point.)
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Okay, let's continue.
6. I understand whole heartedly what you're saying with this one. However, I will not deny Bron's strongly put opinion in Sharpteeth. My guess is that he's grown up around coward-like Sharpteeth all his life. Indeed, I too wish he would say such a thing in front of Sharptooth. However, I fully understand that it's most likly from life experiences that he sees them as cowards.
I also understand the courage it takes to attack something that's pretty huge, then again, with something like a T-rex, it ends up being the same size as a Brontosaurus fully grown, and let's just say when something is the same size as you or smaller, you really aren't that scared.
Also, as I recall, Littlefoot's mother was the first to attack Sharptooth, and let me just ask this little question, "How do we feel when someone hits us?" We want to hit them back, right? Right! Of course, Sharptooth took it to a rather violent level.
Of course, if Littlefoot put any defiance in his father's strongly put opinion in Sharpteeth, I could just imagine the trouble he'd get into. I believe that he did think about these possible counters to Bron's opinion, however, he also thought about how much trouble he'd get into, and when meeting your dad after years of not knowing him, it's not a good idea to get into any trouble.
Also, I'd say it's a good thing I watched all of those "Nature" shows. (I mainly started watching them because I was bored. However, in time, I became a fan.) From those shows, I have come to learn that several predators have alot of control over their powerful jaws. With the power provided, they can choose when to either hurt, limp, wound and even kill their prey. I believe that, for one of the oddest reasons, the Sharptooth that bit Bron chose to only hurt him. I also understand that there are some creatures that have some rather tough skin to break through, and as I recall, alot of power was definately put into the bite that killed Littlefoot's mother. So, I highly believe that Longnecks have a good amount of protection in their skin. (Some more than others.) So, I think it was only natural that Bron only ended up getting hurt and nothing worse.
7. I find it hard to believe that you came up with this according to what I see.
I do not believe for one second that Bron gave Littlefoot up. With the fact that he was so dense that he didn't even think to look in The Great Valley, it ends up saying alot. Of course, the herd did come to depend on Bron for some unexplainable reason. As leader, he was put in a tight spot. A herd is like a family. (We have come to understand this with Littlefoot and his friends.) I believe several members got to him as family. And let's just say that when it comes to a dense leader, they decide that the one you are with now is more important.
I know that may make him seem like he was cold-hearted, but I bet he took it with the heaviest of hearts. I ask you, what choice did this leader have?
As cold-hearted as it may sound, it was a better choice for him to stay with the herd then to look for Littlefoot. He really didn't have much choice but to stop looking.
8. In a simple understanding, they thought he was dead!
Just take a look at Grandpa Longneck's reaction when he saw Bron. It holds all the face-like features, tones and emotions brought on that I would expect to come out of him when he sees someone he thought was dead. Especially his own son.
Also, they understand that Littlefoot still takes the loss of his mother pretty hard whenever it's discussed. Even though it's been years since his mother died, he still has yet to get over it. Imagine if such a bit of news was brought up. The possiblity of his dad being dead as well brings up alot to be said.
This also explains why Grandpa Longneck was very reluctant to tell Littlefoot who was right in front of him. Everything sinking in and all. Someone he thought was dead, but is in reality 100% alive.
They were basically afraid of how Littlefoot would react to it.
They decided to wait until either he was old enough to handle it or he just brought up the question for some odd reason. They knew that Littlefoot wasn't ready to accept it yet.
9. I have come to know Grandma and Grandpa Longneck quite well, and understand them to have quite a good amount of wisdom.
Those who are wise come to understand that when the same dream happens constantly and to others as well, it is no coincidence. They knew that because of this, it was telling them something. It's kinda like basic instinct. Something deep inside was guiding them. Because of them costantly having the dream, they knew they had to be somewhere.
I too would say that it would be better explained if the legend was given to them, but not once did they show that they had any knowledge of the legend before they left for the journey. Why it never got around to them, I won't ask and just know.
Yes, "Don't ask, just know."
Due to their wisdom, they knew it wasn't a coincidence that they had the same dream constantly, and just knew that they had to be somewhere.
10. Well, that seems a little strange to me. In the version I hold, they definately showed a good amount of sadness at this news. In that full sense, I must ask what kind of version you have?
In the version I hold they show a great amount of reluctance with their face.
Of course they don't want him to leave, but what kind of friend are you to deprive such a great friend of your own that choice?
I'd say it was done in the greatest way possible. The message of the song basically said that "no matter what, they would always be his friends."
If he left, they would always remember him. They would see him in their dreams and feel him in their hearts. (I don't think there's any words that are more emotional than that in the song.) They would think of him each day and see his smily face.
No matter what, no matter what hardships came, no matter what seperated them, they would always be his friends. The greatest friends he could ever have in his entire life.
Also, they weren't giving him up, they were giving him more.
They all know what it's like to have someone who is as close as a dad is. Littlefoot never had that. They knew this was his chance to experience that. They knew he really wanted to go with his dad, and they didn't want to deprive him of that.
In conclusion to this point, they weren't out of charcter, they did it in the most perfect way it could possibly be done.
Still got a bit more I want to discuss. Will finish it later. :)
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Still got a bit more I want to discuss. Will finish it later.
Please hurry, I'd like to respond and I may soon not have as much time for it as I have these days, as there are many written university tasks to be dealt with. :)
So I will just give one statement about the impression I have so far:
You thought quite a lot about the whole matter and some of your thesises are quite interesting; however, a lot of it is a rather shaky construct in my opinion. Too much "Don't ask, just know" matters in case of points where there are much simpler explanations which do support my points though.
As I said though, I do not consider this discussion a "competion" which cannot be solved without one of us giving up the own point of view. I consider it a highly interesting discourse and really appreciate the effort you are putting into it :)
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Well, sorry to be taking so long. However, there is alot to discuss, so that might explain a bit of why I'm taking so long. That and I happen to be one who has a life. (Not saying that you don't. I wouldn't be surprised if you did really.) :)
11. Let me just say that it was alot better for them to do the solar eclipse like that than you may think. Why, you ask? Let me introduce you to a little situation of a certian show that shall remain unnamed.
In a certian episode, the show put in realistic effects into something that was quite harmful to the eyes. As a result of their carelessness to take nessacary percautions, many people who watched it ended up getting blind, having seizures, etc. The company which produced it was then highly sued for these acts, nearly going bankrupt in the process. Also, the show was put on hiatus and nearly completly banned from ever being seen to the public eye. Also, the fandom level dropped extremely rapidly, making the show almost worthless to air once the hiatus was over. After a heartfelt apology and promising never to do it again, everyone let bygones be bygones. Ever since then, the shows animators have taken the nessacary percautions needed to ensure such a thing would never happen again.
Now, imagine what would've happened if they did it differently. To a more realistic scale. They took these nessacary percautions to avoid getting sued and going out of business.
I too am somewhat upset at how they did it. However, it was better because if they did it more realistically, there would be a chance that we wouldn't be getting an upcoming series at all. Basically because they wouldn't have the money to do so.
They did the solar eclipse that way to avoid lawsuits.
12. Of course the sharpteeth were stupid. I explained how this was possible earlier. Just choosing to hurt Bron was a big mistake.
With this point, I have to wholeheartedly agree that going under a sharptooth's foot would actually get you killed rather than the result we saw happen to the sharptooth.
However, the kids getting the sharptooth's attention came as no big surprise to me, really. Shorty is REALLY good when it comes to distance in hitting rocks with his tail. I mean, even Littlefoot was impressed and we've seen his shot with one. (Which is still good, considering.) I'd say Shorty is a little gifted in that sense.
Also, since when was the last time we've seen the gang hurling rocks? Since 4, right? I'm sure that the distance improvment is no big surprise as they were bound to get better.
However, yeah, that did seem like a pretty clumsy sharptooth.
I'd have to greatly agree with you that 10's shaprtooth was a disgrace compared to the others we've seen in previous movies.
WHEW! Finally got through all that.
Remember, this may seem somewhat confusing, but my points do make sense in the end when alot of thought are put into them.
Sure, I'm giving Bron the benifet of doubt unlike some of you, but I'm sure he's innocent in the end. I mean, with the way he talked, it just didn't seem like a lie to me.
*awaits Malte's opinion.*
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Despite what has been say (by both parties' arguments) I have always appreciated Bron and liked him as a character! I just never felt I had to justify my reasonings for liking him. I don't need an excuse to like someone. I felt Bron's reasons for leaving Littlefoot's mother were justified, I just never really felt there was room for argument about it...
Bron I appreciate as a character despite what has been hi-lighted as dis-continuities against him
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Hi!
Okay, just keep in mind I don't mean to convince you of my opinion. While it would be a good thing trying to convince you of an opinion you could feel better with (as I would if I was totally satisfied with the contents of LBT 10) it is no intention of mine to make you feel miserable about a movie you used to like :lol:
December 9th
Obviously, whatever was coming, both of Littlefoot's parents saw it coming and prepared for the worst the best they could. Also, just because it's lush and green, doesn't mean that it's safe. This is proven to us in the second movie. Despite the Great Valley being such a great place, it still has it's dangers.
Then what was Bron looking for anyway when he left his wife? With not even the Great Valley being save, did he think he could just happen to find a place of absolute safety (I don't think there is such a place in LBT) at demand? He made the situation even more dangerous for his wife and his offspring by leaving them behind in the awareness that they were in danger. You may point out that he might have done all that just because he is dump, but this thesis is one I will deal with further down. Also, there was no point why his wife should not have accompanied him before laying the eggs. Apparently the eggs weren't laid when Bron left. Littlefoot's mother could have just come along. I reckon she could not take too strenous journeys before laying her eggs, but is it not one of the advantages of them laying eggs rather than the mammals' variant of being pregnant? They remain somewhat more mobile. There was no reason why Littlefoot's mother would not acoompany Bron on a way she would have had to take anyway had Bron found whatever he was looking for.
Now, going back to the first movie, we know that the leaves were beginning to die, yet we don't know what caused such a thing to happen. However, with this information, there is no doubt that the cause destroyed a good amount of the food that was provided. With danger and a coming cause that made a very big lack of food, there was no choice but to leave.
And again the 10th movie was in conflict with the original one!
There was no sign of dying leafes or shortage of food when Bron left (while there ought to have been). What was Bron doing (even if we assume they were shown in a desolate wasteland in LBT 10)? Looking for food and leaving his wife (fully capable of moving) behind to starve?
Sorry, but there was nothing about any of your points on this matter that really convinced me of anything at all.
Like I said, there is no real indication dictating of when the dramatic change happened. He could've been gone for days before it happened. Let's put in the most logical thing that would make it happen, a metor. As I read in an article once that indicated the most likely cause of the dinosaurs' extinction, a metor striking the earth makes dramatic changes. Not only does the sun get blocked out, but any volcanoes nearby become VERY active, making them spew out an uncontrolable amount of lava and ash. (We have to suggest a volcano being nearby in order to make such a tropical place existable.) Earthquakes strike at a multitude that is unnormal, and worst of all, the dust and ash that is carried into the atmosphere causes acid rain. Destroying all the leaves it hits. The metor wasn't as big as the one that killed off the dinosaurs, but it was still big enough to cause quite some damage.
So, if it was a metor, than it was a sudden change, it just didn't happen until a good time after Bron left.
There may be something about this. Actually It might be possible that it was THE meteorid. After all scientists think that dinosaurs continued to exist for possibly several thousand years after the impact. Also we get messages that "the land is changing" which might be due to that impact.
However, again even if this was the case and if the changes occured very suddenly (as shown in LBT 10) it still doesn't answer why he left, and why he left without his wife in the first place.
Bron isn't coldhearted, he's dense!
The idea of a dense dinosaur has a certain appeal to me. Actually it would be an interesting idea to include a Forest Gump like character. That character just doesn't come in the shape of Bron though.
The way he is talking (high speed, immediate answers, no drawling, no interruptions, no fillers) the words he is using (permanent damage), a certain cunning (the way he trapped Shorty into confessing he tripped Littlefoot rather than believing Shorty's excuses), good memory (he recognized Littlefoot's grandfather instantly after all the years)... all that really doesn't make him come accross as a dense character.
"Great minds think alike" is of course just a phrase Bron used, but I don't think it is commonly used by dense people wholeheartedly considering themselves a great mind. There is even a kind of poetic touch to Bron's way of talking ("a crack in the earth as deep as a mountain is high", "the bright circle rose and fell many times") one would not expect from a character dense enough to "accidentaly" commit all the things I am blaming Bron for.
Also Bron was thinking about what is going to happen next (after he met Littlefoot) while Littlefoot apparently hadn't spend any thought on that. I really don't think a character so much denser than Littlefoot would come up with the thought first.
"You don't have to decide anything right now." By saying this Bron shows a kind of patient understanding. Is this very common when really dense people ask something?
Also inspite of his indiference towards Shorty Bron is smart enough to recognize that: "Shorty is a good kid at heart, he just likes getting things started." Do you really think that precise analysis of other people's characters is too common a feature among dense people (not saying that it is impossible).
I don't see any points indicating that Bron was dense while there are quite a few I've just pointed out which speak for him being of at least average or possibly higher intelligence.
Many of your points are virtually based on that assumption. So if I cannot agree with seeing Bron as a dense character, I cannot agree with most of the other points either leaving me to the view I have expressed before.
I regret that you came up with the phrase "don't ask, just know". I'm sorry for saying this, but you came up with it whenever there was no sense to be seen in the thoughts you laid out (no offense meant). "Don't ask, just believe" would be more to the point as what you know is usually based on facts. I don't like the phrase; trust no politician who uses it.
"Don't ask, just know" is absolutely NO whatsoever response to the many questions I came up with (e.g. why so many longnecks would want to follow a characters so utterly dense as you apparently consider Bron).
December 14th
7. I find it hard to believe that you came up with this according to what I see.
I do not believe for one second that Bron gave Littlefoot up. With the fact that he was so dense that he didn't even think to look in The Great Valley, it ends up saying alot. Of course, the herd did come to depend on Bron for some unexplainable reason. As leader, he was put in a tight spot. A herd is like a family. (We have come to understand this with Littlefoot and his friends.) I believe several members got to him as family. And let's just say that when it comes to a dense leader, they decide that the one you are with now is more important.
I know that may make him seem like he was cold-hearted, but I bet he took it with the heaviest of hearts. I ask you, what choice did this leader have?
As cold-hearted as it may sound, it was a better choice for him to stay with the herd then to look for Littlefoot. He really didn't have much choice but to stop looking.
^ Sorry, but I find it very hard to believe that you find it hard to believe I came up with this after everything I wrote already. I laid out already why I don't think Bron is dump (very factual reasons I think). So he could have thought of the Great Valley and moved there with his whole herd. I ask you, what choice did he have? There was just one thing for him to do, and he didn't! There was nothing, NOTHING AT ALL about his being made a herd leader that could have prevented him from moving to the Great Valley! 8. In a simple understanding, they thought he was dead!
Just take a look at Grandpa Longneck's reaction when he saw Bron. It holds all the face-like features, tones and emotions brought on that I would expect to come out of him when he sees someone he thought was dead. Especially his own son.
Also, they understand that Littlefoot still takes the loss of his mother pretty hard whenever it's discussed. Even though it's been years since his mother died, he still has yet to get over it. Imagine if such a bit of news was brought up. The possiblity of his dad being dead as well brings up alot to be said.
This also explains why Grandpa Longneck was very reluctant to tell Littlefoot who was right in front of him. Everything sinking in and all. Someone he thought was dead, but is in reality 100% alive.
They were basically afraid of how Littlefoot would react to it.
They decided to wait until either he was old enough to handle it or he just brought up the question for some odd reason. They knew that Littlefoot wasn't ready to accept it yet.
I reckon that's true. Littlefoot's grandparents (by the way I strongly suppose they are the parents of Littlefoot's mother rather than of Bron) were bound to think him dead. Why else would such a smart character like Bron not look for his son at the place where he was most likely to be?
They did the solar eclipse that way to avoid lawsuits.
I think you missed my point there :huh:
I was never demanding a solar eclipse on TV that was so bright that it would do damage to the eyes if you looked at it. In fact I doubt this is possible at all. What I was demanding was to make it more realistic by cutting some of their "effects" out.
Don't show the moon before it "touches" the sun. You can't see it before it does!
Don't make the sky shine in every color that ever existed. It does not behave that stupid because the sun light is being blocked out. What you would get is similar to a night's sky without dawn or dusk, but with a rather strange twilight before the sun is fully covered up. You can feel a solar eclipse too, as the air is getting colder. There was no need for strange spiral clouds and shooting stars all over the sky. They made too much fuss rather than showing an eclipse in all its beauty.
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Well Malte, let me just say that when I put this in, I knew you would take the word dense a bit too far in it's understanding. Then again, I did set it up like that, so let me rephrase a little.
He is dense to a certian degree. In other words, there are some things he's smart with and other's he's not.
I will not deny the amount of smarts that he showed that possibly pulled him away from being dense, but where I come from, dense is still dense, no matter how small it may be.
I do not see him as coldhearted. If he was coldhearted, would he show care for Littlefoot's wounds before knowing who he really was? I think not. :)
And besides that, Grandpa Longneck hadn't changed even the slightest over the years, so even someone who was dense could remember him.
Then again, maybe you have a point with a few things there. However, I understand Bron to be one of those complex charcters who gets different set views on him from different people.
You simply took it at the angle of his guiltiness, not once giving him the benefit of the doubt, whereas I took it at the opposite. It's a habit of mine really. Whenever one is found guilty of something I find rather hard to believe, I tend to find their innocence in everything and sometimes overexaterate.
So, with how I'm looking at it now, I'm going to have to look at the movie again. Maybe I can figure out something to get me out of this after that. -_-
Anyways, let's debate a bit on the solar eclipse thing. There is a second possiblity of why it was so badly done. (I have to admit to that myself.) Maybe they didn't know exactly what a soar eclipse looked like when they made this. (Heck, I don't either, but your explanation really helpped me in picturing it in my mind.) It would highly explain why it was done like that easily. Of course, this destroys my first guess as to why it was so badly done, then again, it does help out alot. Maybe they didn't know what one looks like and had to resort to their imagination. Which, in this case, didn't seem like a very good one. :(
Malte, you're good with debating. However, I knew I was going against someone tough when I started this, so I shouldn't've been surprised.
(Oh, and BTW, I did actually mean "don't ask, just believe." Gezz! I can't believe I got those mixed up! :slap )
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Malte, you're good with debating. However, I knew I was going against someone tough when I started this, so I shouldn't've been surprised.
You are not going against me pokeplayer984. If you came up with a probable and plausible explanation for the points I listed, I would be happy to accept that view. It sure is better to have a positive view of an LBT movie than a negative one. However if we set our demands to low I'm afraid future movies may be of lower quality...
Maybe that doesn't really make sense. I don't know if any one of the people involved in the production of LBT (apart from Aria and Anndi (Cera)) ever visited the land before time forums. I sure hope they do as I do think that the opinion of the fans could take a positive influence on future land before time movies.
Anyway I can't help thinking that throughout our discussion here you and I have spent more thought on certain aspects of the land before time than people who are actually paid to think about it (no kidding, I'm serious).
I'm sorry, but I simply can't believe Bron to be dense only whenever it comes as a good excuse to justify his actions. I really don't think so. Moreover it would make him not the only dense longneck around. For even if he was dense only in that particular fleeting instances it would require a certain density from Littlefoot's mother and grandparents as well to allow Bron to just wander of when they could just as well accompany him.
((Hey how careless and irresponsible is Littlefoot's mother to let such a dense longneck wander around alone in the wilderness? :lol )).
As for the warmth he shows towards Littlefoot, it may well be that it is kind of a guilty conscience reaction. I don't mean to say that the warmth he showed was not sincere, it certainly was, but he hadn't cared for all the time. Maybe it required Littlefoot to turn up for Bron to "remember" what he seems to have displaced all the time. I think there are many other examples in literature when a bad father turns out all nice and kind when the lost son turns up decades later. Littlefoot in my opinion is very rash at accepting his fathers excuses, probably because he wants to believe him. Maybe it is the same for you? You too want to believe him and you are able to ("Don't ask, just believe!"). I too would like to believe him as I said repeatedly, but I can't. I can't believe in spite of all the weaknesses I have pointed out. I have been raised to question things I find questionable or implausible (and I drove some of my school teachers crazy by debating with them about "Don't ask, just believe!" matters :P: ).
As for the solar eclipse I'm sure that for a movie with a budget like the one LBT has it is possible to find somebody to help designing the solar eclipse. A good thing about a solar eclipse is that it is not only a handful of people get to see it when it occurs (unless it happens to occur over the ocean), but millions! Even if it was impossible for them to find someone who experienced a solar eclipse (I'm almost certain that there were people in the team of LBT 10 who witnessed one. I know more people who saw one than people who didn't) there are films and movies and all that depicting it. It is really not like they were showing something to us that has been passed down only in vague ancient scrolls! They could and should have done better.
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You know, as I overlooked this topic for the 100th time, (I'm exagerating there.) and after looking at countless facts of dinosaurs in one of THE lamest attempts to prove Bron's innocence, :slap and watching the movie for the 5th time, I've come to a little conclusion.
I have a strange feeling that those statements you made should not have been made at all.
Simply, you only made the movie less enjoyable than it could've been for you by doing so.
I have indeed come to the conclusion myself that Bron wasn't as good of a father as we could've hoped him to be. If only he had the chance to spend time with Littlefoot when he was born, maybe he would've been a better father.
However, making that type of conclusion ends up making the movie far less enjoyable than it really was for me before I came to it.
In a simple understanding, in order for us to really enjoy it, we have to believe it.
That's the way I've been raised. It has indeed proven to make me enjoy things more in my life than I expected. :)
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I've been raised differently. When there are things disturbing us, it is no good to just keep mum and endure in silence. This goes especially if it comes to parts of our lives which are of more direct impact than a movie, however much we love it (and trust me, I really love LBT).
It is almost a philosophical topic to ask wether we prefer the satisfaction of ignorance (by not questioning, or pointing out things we disapprove of) or the satisfaction of knowledge combined with the dissatisfaction of the realization that things are not the way we would have had them.
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*time to jump in*
Pokeplayer is right....if you analyze the film...you do come to a sour conclusion--Bron isn't the father he should have been or could have been, and if you look at it like that, you will suddenly hate the film. Guess what? How many families you think can resonate with that situation? I'd say 40% of families in America can share that story where a parent is less than they should be. It happens. Trying to overlook it and pretend it doesn't happen is a disaster waiting to happen and is nothing better than trying to pretend teenage pregnancy didn't happen in conservative America in the 50s. -_-
It is almost a philosophical topic to ask wether we prefer the satisfaction of ignorance (by not questioning, or pointing out things we disapprove of) or the satisfaction of knowledge combined with the dissatisfaction of the realization that things are not the way we would have had them.
Malte, you'd make a damn good sociologist. ;)
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I think I figured it all out.
I had kinda forgotten about this topic and my earlier conclusions. Let's just say I was a little desprate and thought on one thing too much at the time.
The reason Bron's story doesn't make sense, is becuase it was incomplete. In other words, he hadn't finished. Littlefoot was so amazed by Bron being the leader of a whole herd that he couldn't help but stop his dad's story. Now, I saw that Bron saw this coming. Bron knew such a thing was quite the achievement. So, in that sense, he stopped to give Littlefoot time to react. As a result, he never got to finish his story. I'm sure that if just a bit more was included, it would make alot more sense. :)
Now, I took a bit of time to study the battle with the Sharpteeth, and discovered those "trippings" to all be quite natural. I paused the tape during the time the first tripping happened and studied it carefully. It turned out that when the Sharptooth stepped down on the rocks, the rocks were in just the right place to make him trip. A split second later, it would've failed. This, however, is very easy to miss and so anyone can misinterperted it as something that shouldn't happen.
Now, the other one that has a debate on is Shorty getting under a Sharptooth's foot and doing that to trip him. Now, when I paid attention to the sounds very carefully, I heard a familiar grunt sound that we are all familiar with. I rewind and spot Cera charging at the other foot before Shorty reaches it. So, in all truth, Shorty wasn't alone in tripping the Sharptooth. Cera had rammed the other foot, forcing the Sharptooth to balance on one foot, and let's just say it's not easy for you to balance on one foot, especially when you are standing on your toes. It was far too easy for Shorty to trip it. In the end, only a fraction of the Sharptooth's weight Shorty had to deal with rather than all of it as it was earlier concluded. Though how much can still be debated on. I still don't approve of Shorty doing that, but let's just say that if he didn't take advantage of the sudden oppurtunity, they'd probably be Sharptooth meat by now.
Rather interesting things I found, no? :)
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The reason Bron's story doesn't make sense, is becuase it was incomplete. In other words, he hadn't finished. Littlefoot was so amazed by Bron being the leader of a whole herd that he couldn't help but stop his dad's story. Now, I saw that Bron saw this coming. Bron knew such a thing was quite the achievement. So, in that sense, he stopped to give Littlefoot time to react. As a result, he never got to finish his story. I'm sure that if just a bit more was included, it would make alot more sense.
Quite frankly, I have serious doubts about this. With many of the strange elements being right at the beginning of Bron's tale he would have had to restart all over again. Why not mentioning those extremely important details (obviously they would have made him look much better) right away? What kind of details would it have been at all?
Taking advantage of the position of being made the leader of a herd rather than good points on why he wasn't there (I already pointed out why I doubt Bron to be a very responsible leader) doesn't seem too appropriate to me.
"Yes I left you and your mum for reasons unmentioned and never thought of looking at the most likely place and I'm not going to accompany you there now for I left a part of my herd somewhere else... but HEY I'M a HERDLEADER! That makes up for everything, doesn't it?"
As for the trippings one can always assume that a sharptooth somehow set the foot down in a wrong angle and tripped because of chance or whatever (could happen to anyone) but I still think that such "chances" disenchant the sharpteeth and that Shorty's action (he couldn't speculated on chances) was an unrealistic and self-murdourous thing to do had it been a sharptooth rather than an entertainer.
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Okay, maybe we should start over!
Let me just ask you one little question before we begin.
Do you know what this phrase means?:
"Any man can be a father, but it takes someone special to be a Dad."
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The quote comes from Australian photographer, clothing-designer, and businesswoman Anne Geddes. In this context I understand "father" to refer to merely being the genitor of somebody while Dad in this case refers to the emotional element that ought to be in a father son relationship even if it exists between a kid and a man who is not the kids genitor.
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Okay, now let's start over and work with the points you made one at a time, and not stop until we come to a comprimise with it. ;)
1. To explain all the discrepancies of Bron's story, we need to remember the original movie. The story he is telling must have begun shortly before the beginning of the original land before time movie.
Yet where were Bron and Littlefoot's mother (whom they didn't bother to give so much as the same color she had in the original movie) in a lush, green, Great Valley like landscape. The landscape they showed was just a perfect nesting place for Bron and his wife. There was no point for him to leave his pregnant wife to look for a better place. They had a really good place already!
One thing we know though was that it was most likely not safe like The Great Valley is. Despite it's lush, green landscape, it was probably attacked quite often by sharpteeth for all we know. It's a common fact that Bron and Littlefoot's mother would know something like this. Wanting a safe place to raise a family is probably more than a good enough reason to leave.
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Wanting a safe place to raise a family is probably more than a good enough reason to leave.
And therefore he should leave his pregnant wife alone in a region where a serious thread from sharpteeth is to be expected?
Nope, that doesn't sum up for me. If indeed there was a thread of sharpteeth that would be just another point for Bron NOT to leave his wife alone!
Also it is very unlikely that there is an abundance of places as sheltered and protected as the Great Valley (otherwise what would remain that is special about the Great Valley? Even with the end of the myth of it being the last green place the sequels still repeatedly point out the protection it offers as something special).
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And therefore he should leave his pregnant wife alone in a region where a serious thread from sharpteeth is to be expected?
Nope, that doesn't sum up for me. If indeed there was a thread of sharpteeth that would be just another point for Bron NOT to leave his wife alone!
Also it is very unlikely that there is an abundance of places as sheltered and protected as the Great Valley (otherwise what would remain that is special about the Great Valley? Even with the end of the myth of it being the last green place the sequels still repeatedly point out the protection it offers as something special).
Well, there is one tiny thing I forgot to mention. In the first movie, the narrorator said this:
All that remained of his herd was his Mother, Grandmother and Grandfather.
From this information, we can tell that Grandma and Grandpa Longneck were most likely around during this hard decision. If you ask me, Littlefoot's Mother was protected from sharpteeth even without Bron around.
And before you continue with your little, "It was the wrong thing to do speech", consider this for a second. What if he was doing what was wrong to do what was right? :)
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All that remained of his herd was his Mother, Grandmother and Grandfather.
This quote from the original movie at that time suggested that everyone else from that herd was dead. It would have been much better if they had had a plausible story for Bron which would have included an explanation for why Littlefoot's mother or his grandparents never wondered about him (e.g. because they supposed him to be dead).
From this information, we can tell that Grandma and Grandpa Longneck were most likely around during this hard decision. If you ask me, Littlefoot's Mother was protected from sharpteeth even without Bron around.
Again, this is contradicting your own previous statements. If even Littlefoot's mother and his grandparents where safe enough without Bron, why would he leave them to find a saver place? Wouldn't they be as safe as safe could be, plus having enough to eat, plus not taking in the obvious risks of Bron leaving them?
It simply doesn't sum up! And because it doesn't sum up at all, it makes Bron's actions (and the actions of Littlefoot's mother and grandparents too) not only wrong, but also totally implausible! I'm not ringing the moral bell here to bring Bron down. While there are moral arguments too there are also arguments of reason. Therefore I would rather have my points taken into account by you (same as I'm reacting to yours) rather than having them mocked as a "It was the wrong thing to do speech".
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Dang! :slap :bang :slap :bang
You win point one! :angry:
But remember, it's far from over. Time to see if I can conquer point 2. :)
2. The way Bron tells the story it appears that almost the moment he left the world turned upside down and changed into the desolate wasteland we know from the original movie. This is highly unlikely and doesn't seem at all the way the situation is described in the original movie. Even if it was a sudden change from paradise to wasteland, would not a responsible Bron have returned immediately to find his wife and unborn hatchling? According to his tail he did, but if this was true, how come he didn't find them? First of all, if there was such a sudden change of situation I reckon Littlefoot's mother would have waited for Bron as long as possible, as she and her parents (the way the contact between Bron and Littlefoot's grandparents is shown we can take it for granted they are not Bron's parents) knew he was going to return as soon as he could (if he ever meant to return). Even if lack of food forced them to move on after all (Bron must have been really far away indeed not to be back by that time) it would have been easy enough for Bron to follow the fresh trail of three grownup longnecks (As Cera pointed out in LBT 10 they leave clear tracks) who certainly tried to leave a clear trail for Bron to follow. There is absolutely no justification why Bron didn't return to his wife right away!
Well, I suspect that you haven't seen the english version and had to translate it from German, and from what I've learned, even the experts who made something called Google Translation, which is one of the top leading language translators on the net, can make mistakes with translating words.
With what I heard, he got back just as "The Great Earthshake" hit. From that perspective, I can not blame Bron for not finding them, especially with the fact the nest was gone. That earthquake was HUGE! It even beats the one in LBT 9. The trail they would make would be destroyed far too easily by "The Great Earthshake." With the idea of the trail most likely destroyed, it was simple enough to understand why he couldn't find them right away.
EDIT: W00t! Post 200!! I'm finally a Ducky! :^.^:
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Well, I suspect that you haven't seen the english version and had to translate it from German, and from what I've learned, even the experts who made something called Google Translation, which is one of the top leading language translators on the net, can make mistakes with translating words.
Sorry, but in fact all my statements are based on the English version which I got hold of long before the German version (which I watched only once or twice hoping in vain for a better explanation in the translation). What he says is:
I went of to find a new home for all of us. When I got back the earthshakes had changed everything. It took me so long to find where the nest had been and nothing was left but a crack in the earth as deep as a mountain is high.
With the description of the crack it seems very likely that in fact he is refering to the big earthquake that seperated Littlefoot and the others from their families. It doesn't make sense however. Just consider this for a moment. Bron had been of to find a new home for them. By the time he got back to where the nest had been the great earthshake had occured. Just for how many years had he been looking for that new home? He left before Littlefoot was born and when he returned an indefined span of time had passed, long enough for Littlefoot to grow up from the cute dinosaur we saw in the hatching scene to a dinosaur able to talk and think critical and all that. He must have been gone for a long time indeed, much longer than I consider responsible.
You are right to say that this Great Earthshake would have wipped off any tracks of Littlefoot's mother. However, if he was able to learn from another dinosaur that she had been killed by a sharptooth I don't see why it would be impossible for him to find out where she had meant to go and where everyone else was still going.
The role of Littlefoot's mother herself too needs to be questioned, why did she and Littlefoot's grandparents move away if they knew Bron had set out to find a place for them? Wouldn't they expect him to return soon (obviously he didn't) and wait for him as long as possible? Or was there any kind of unanimous agreement?
My thesis remains. The makers of LBT simply messed up by putting Bron into a story where he simply didn't fit in. They didn't even bother to give a logical explanation for his previous absence.
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Well, I was exploring possibilites on your statement, and I think I came up with something.
"The Great Valley" is a widely known legend for dinosaurs, correct?
Of course, with it being a legend, we can't forget the possibility that some may believe "The Great Valley" to be a myth. I must admit, it is hard to believe of a place that sharpteeth CAN'T enter and only leafeaters can. In fact, The Great Valley has proven to not be that kind of place completely. The Great Wall does indeed make it VERY difficult for others to get in. However, we know there HAS to be some sort of enterance for even the biggest leafeaters to enter. Thus meaning even a sharptooth could get in.
With this information, it made me wonder if Bron was actually told of such a place, but simply didn't believe it existed. I wonder if you, Malte, even thought of THAT possibility. Maybe he was told, but he simply didn't believe in it.
What do you think? :)
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With this information, it made me wonder if Bron was actually told of such a place, but simply didn't believe it existed. I wonder if you, Malte, even thought of THAT possibility. Maybe he was told, but he simply didn't believe in it.
It is an interesting question. Information on this matter in the first movie is contradictory:
Narrator: Desperate for food some of the dinosaur herds stuck out for the west searching for the Great Valley; a land still lush and green.
Littlefoot: My mother said it's where all the herds were going
But most important of all: Some things you see with your eyes, others you see with your heard!
Maybe Bron's unable to see with his heart, but would not his wife have told him what her heart told her? Also with many herds (maybe many is a term between some and all we can settle on) heading for the Great Valley it doesn't seem plausible for Bron not to head that way to find his son even if he did not believe in the Great Valley. I really don't see how he possibly could have not give that option a try in all the years if he was serious about finding his son.
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Hmm, a part of me is thinking that maybe he entered the valley in the middle of LBT 5, and finding no one, and nothing to eat, left the place forever. ^_^;
Okay, maybe not. -_-
Okay, let's think about how the change came to be.
Now, earlier we talked about the possiblity of a metor being the cause. However, there is questionable debate of the missing timeline. Which hold questions with unknown answers.
First off, how long does it take for an egg from an Apatosaurs to hatch, much less develop after the mating process?
How long exactly was it between Littlefoot hatching and the first time he talked? According to the book you have, it's 5 years, but I'm not believing it.
In other words, was it really such a sudden change, or was it longer than we thought?
Hard to say, huh? ;)
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How long exactly was it between Littlefoot hatching and the first time he talked? According to the book you have, it's 5 years, but I'm not believing it.
In other words, was it really such a sudden change, or was it longer than we thought?
I suppose it must have been at least some time for him to grow that much. However, Chomper is the prove that apparently dinosaur kids in LBT are rather quick in the uptake of language (while Petrie, Dinah, and Danah may be hold against that) :lol:
Either way, what would be the difference as far as Bron is concerned?
Had there been only a very short time between his departure, Littlefoot's hatching and the great earthquake (which seems to be what Bron is claiming) the question about Littlefoot's mother and grandparents remains. Wouldn't they have waited for Bron for just a little while? Would it not be easy for him to pick up the track (earthquake or no earthquake) of either Littlefoot or his grandparents, if travellers at that time could even tell him about his wife's fate?
The other variant (though more likely from what we saw in the original movie) casts an even unkinder light on Bron. In that case we really would have to wonder why he would be gone for so long.
To sum it up: Had Bron been gone for only a short time, how come that apparently he was so unable to find back to Littlefoot or his grandparents. Had Bron been gone for a long time; well, why would he?
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Sorry Malte, but I afraid I strongly disagree with your view on Bron. I see no reason to consider him as being cold-hearted, selfish, or careless in any aspect. If he was truly cold-hearted, he would have left Littlefoot to die at the claws of the sharpteeth, but he didn't did he? No, he risked his life to save Littlefoot, and thus, he is no cold-hearted character, nor is he careless.
A lot can happen in the Mysterious Beyond, and dramatic changes can happen overnight (or so I believe). A tilt, for example, had transformed the Sahara into the lifeless desert it is today. If such a thing ocurred in LBT (there's no evidence for it, but it's just my idea), then the land would have changed far beyond recognition. Littlefoot's mother would have been forced to move on, regardless if her mate was away or not, and Bron would have not been able to recognize the land well enough to know exactly which direction his mate would have gone.
Bron might not have known where the Great Valley was. Whether or not he knew it existed, I don't know, but I don't think he really knew where the valley was, so he ended up wandering around aimlessly.
I feel really bad for Bron. If he was lying, then he was really good at it. But I do not believe, for a second, that he lied. He might have left a few details out, but probably just to protect Littlefoot. There are indeed somethings that one should never know.
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Something else to consider, too:
The LBT series is Not known for its detailed or even specifically Accurate storytelling and recollections of previous events. The earlier films (1 through 4 especially) were able to keep a good level of consistancy in character and story, I thought, and I have no issues with how they were done.
LBT 4: All we know of Ali is that she is in a migrating herd who recently came from the Land of Mists. Later on, we learn that she spent all of her social life with longnecks, which adds more detail. Still, her background is quite sketchy.
LBT 6: The story of the Lone Dinosaur is told in some level of detail, through the opening's story and the song "Lone Dinosaur" (most of which in the song is fiction, but that's besides the point). Overall, the story of the Lone Dinosaur is one of the better-developed historical stories in the series, and it is Meant to be sketchy for the sake of mystery. Ironic, isn't it? :P:
In LBT 7, there is a well-known discussion between the Gang about who crosses the vine first (when chasing after Pterano's posse). A comment is made that Cera is always at the back of the line whenever the Gang had left the Great Valley previously, yet in earlier films, we clearly see that Cera has never Once been at the back of the line when crossing any sort of gap.
Also in LBT 7, when the gang finds Ducky in the cave. The story of how ducky got there was kept extremely short (under 10 seconds). While this isn't as important of a story as Bron's, I believe this trend continues in LBT 10's Bron story.
LBT 8: Thicknose's story, told in his song. Most of the song is about the theme of never being too old to learn. A few seconds of the song tells the story of his life, but this detail is kept Very minimal. The story of where the Spiketails came from is also kept very sketchy. All we really know is they are from "The cold lands", likely on a more polar point on Earth than the Great Valley but possibly a mountainous area (though the lack of food in mountainous regions would suggest against that). Anyways, that's a different topic altogether. :p
LBT 9: The background of where Mo came from is kept very simple. We know nothing of his family except from what we see of how they act around him at the end. The story of how he got to the Great valley was kept very short and simple.
LBT 10: One of the most major, important backstories in the entire series is told in a matter of a couple of minutes, which is certainly possible if the most Relavent information is given to the audience.
My point? I have a couple.
If the previous sequels were so skimpy on details, why should LBT 10 be any exception? I believe that the important parts were left out and the parts that we hear are mis-interpretted to mean something outside of the original context of what truly happened. I understand that a children's movie will naturally have less detail offered to the audience than a more mature film but I think a story can be basic while still being well-done.
I think that the wrong parts of the story were told to the audience in the wrong way, and I think that Darkhououmon has some very good points.
Bron says that he couldn't find Littlefoot but there could be any number of reasons for that. Bron could have fallen ill or become disoriented in the sudden change of the landscape (or for some other unexpected reason). The change of seasons could have changed the position of the Sun and the stars, thereby throwing off Bron's navigation.
Some details were left out of the story that could have explained what Bron was Truly saying. Remember that Bron was talking to a child, and probaby was light the details for a number of reasons. Perhaps something horrible happened during his search that he didn't want to tell his son until perhaps he was older.
Why did Bron leave his wife when they had a perfectly good place to live?
Perhaps the area was becoming overpopulated or there was a wave of poor living conditions moving in their direction.
Why didn't she come with him?
Perhaps she wasn't in good condition to travel or couldn't move her eggs without fear of breaking them. Maybe some were broken in the process of trying to bring her with them and a single egg survived. At that point, I can certainly see her wanting to stay behind.
Why didn't Bron check the most obvious place, the Great Valley?
Consider the directions given to Littlefoot on how to Find the Great Valley:
Follow the Bright circle (where it touches the ground) past the rock that looks like a longneck and past the mountains that burn.
On Earth, the sun touches the horizon in two places: one in the west, one in the east. If Bron had simply followed the morning sun instead of the evening sun, he could have ended up in the completely wrong part of the world. Maybe Bron simply couldn't Find the great valley for a reason as simple as this.
How to find the Great Valley is on a topic completely different from this one (maybe I will start a topic on that) so I will stop there. I sincerely think this story is explainable but we just lack a large amount of information.
thoughts?
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Sorry Malte, but I afraid I strongly disagree with your view on Bron. I see no reason to consider him as being cold-hearted, selfish, or careless in any aspect. If he was truly cold-hearted, he would have left Littlefoot to die at the claws of the sharpteeth, but he didn't did he?
Not helping Littlefoot in that situation would have made him really unacceptable indeed. One doesn't need to fail to render assistance in a life threatening situation though to be labeled "cold-hearted". This goes especially for a situation as the one shown in LBT 10 in which the own life is endangered if you intervene. My own view of Bron as a cold hearted character is based more on his behaviour towards Shorty than on his behaviour towards Littlefoot.
Bron took care of Shorty and all the poor defenseless longneck kids he found when he was looking for his son. Doesn't this prove him not to be cold hearted? It might if indeed he did take care of them, but did he really? At least not on his own accord from what we see in the flashback. He checks whether his son is among the kids, finds he isn't, and moves on. Bron doesn't even open his mouth. No word of encouragement, no question if they know anything about the whereabouts of his son, and least of all an invitation to the kids to come along with him. He didn't decide to take care of the kids. They just followed him, knowing it would be safer for them and Bron apparently didn't mind. He did not offer his protection to them, they just took it.
Shorty in particular is the best example for Bron's indifference. He is one of the interesting characters which I hold in favor of LBT 10. But do you think Shorty would have ever turned into a bully if Bron had cared about him beyond saving him from being killed so long he stayed close enough? Throughout the whole movie the only scene in which Bron shows some genuine kindness to Shorty is when during the herd's departure he takes him onto his head. Shorty might have considered Bron a father, but Bron did not consider him a son. From what Bron told Littlefoot. All the others young longnecks found parents, but not Shorty. Bron didn't even consider being a kind of fatherfigure for Shorty! One might argue that he was allegedly so focused on finding his son that he may have had no mind at all for Shorty, but it is not a sign of him being particularly warm-hearted if he apparently feels he couldn't take care of another kid. Bron seems to be more like a leader than a parent to Shorty. Did he even try to talk to Shorty after Littlefoot turned up? There is no such scene in the movie, and the determination of Shorty to leave suggests that there wasn't so much as a kind word to him.
As for Bron's story about his leaving of Littlefoot's mother, even if indeed the fertile land they were shown in in the flashback was overcrowded, it would have made much more sense to wait until the egg hatches and then set out all together. Looking at the amounts of green shown in that flashback it really doesn't sound credible that there shouldn't have been enough for the longnecks to live on during the limited time until the egg hatches. But for all we know the eggs hadn't even been laid by that time. There are several broken shells besides Littlefoot's egg in the original movie. The landscape is entirely different though.
A tilt, for example, had transformed the Sahara into the lifeless desert it is today.
That's certainly true, but did the Sahara come into existence in as short a time as it takes for a dinosaur egg to hatch? With all the dramatic changes that took place the Sahara didn't turn from a lush pasteure into a sandbox within a few days (as must have been the case according to Bron's story). The only possible explanation for such an abrupt change might be a meteor impact, yet even in that case the region not directly affected by the resulting fires (which would have killed the dinosaurs there) wouldn't turn from green into grey in a day. Bron must have had the time to return unless he wandered a distance that would take him months to cover at least; and why would he?
Why didn't Bron check the most obvious place, the Great Valley?
Consider the directions given to Littlefoot on how to Find the Great Valley:
Follow the Bright circle (where it touches the ground) past the rock that looks like a longneck and past the mountains that burn.
On Earth, the sun touches the horizon in two places: one in the west, one in the east. If Bron had simply followed the morning sun instead of the evening sun, he could have ended up in the completely wrong part of the world. Maybe Bron simply couldn't Find the great valley for a reason as simple as this.
How to find the Great Valley is on a topic completely different from this one (maybe I will start a topic on that) so I will stop there. I sincerely think this story is explainable but we just lack a large amount of information.
An interesting question to be discussed :yes
I do not see it as an excuse for Bron though. Even if we accept that he didn't see some things with his heart (a point I'm willing to accept) the location of the Great Valley seems to be common knowledge in the sequels, or in the lands west of the lands from the original movie. Ali's herd knows where the Great Valley is located, Doc does, so do the Farwalkers in LBT 7, and the spiketails in LBT 8. Even Mo's waterkin (whom I suppose never got anywhere near the Valley) could give directions towards the Great Valley. Under this condition it is hard for me to believe that anyone really looking for the Great Valley would be unable to find it.
If the previous sequels were so skimpy on details, why should LBT 10 be any exception? I believe that the important parts were left out and the parts that we hear are mis-interpretted to mean something outside of the original context of what truly happened. I understand that a children's movie will naturally have less detail offered to the audience than a more mature film but I think a story can be basic while still being well-done.
I think the best point is that I'm being unfair for blaming Bron for what those committed who thought of the story of LBT 10. A few minor changes could have made it a lot more credible. Looking at the way it was done I can't help thinking that in almost every single scene with Bron, he does or says something that is either not credible or unkind. However, as from Littlefoot's point of view it would be difficult to blame the producers of LBT... (Oh my gosh, that would would be an interesting example of cartoon dinosaur religion if they start blaming their "creators" :blink:) I can only talk of things Littlefoot would know about.
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Gee, I read what they put up late last night, and I thought they had you so well that I didn't need to put up the little thing that the voice in my head is saying, but you go and counter it like this, and I can see that I was wrong.
Now, even I think the voice in my head is wrong, but if I don't get it out, it'll just keep bothering me.
Okay, now as I have come to understand things in life, one can view something as the complete opposite, when the right conditions are set.
They made a very strong point with finding The Great Valley with the direction details, but you made a strong counterpoint on the fact that herds coming from other directions were able to find it as well. Indeed, we have to accept that either Bron didn't know of such a place, or that he didn't listen to his heart to guide him there.
Now, a part of me thinks he did find it, but didn't believe it to be because of the time he arrived there, being during LBT 5. (I always didn't like those Swarming Leaf Gobblers. <_<) Of course, if that were the case, why was that left out? I guess it just doesn't work in the end. -_-
Now, if Bron were cold-hearted, would he have let those kids follow him? No. If he were cold-hearted, he would've shooed them off and left them to die in the barren wasteland he found them in. He must've indeed taken care of them for some time before running into someone else. Be it a few days, weeks or months is unknown. I wonder just how long he had to look out for them before some other adult joined him. For all we know, it could've been a rather short amount of time or quite a number of months.
Now understand that as I saw it all, Shorty was taking care of those other kids before Bron came along. He also seemed to be rather protective when Bron looked them over. Shorty seemed to be the leader of the kids as it were. They stayed behind Shorty for protection. I actually think Shorty was always like that, even before he met Bron. It took Littlefoot accepting him as a brother to soften the bully within him. Anyways, it seemed to me that when Shorty accepted Bron as being someone to look after them, the others did too.
I think it was that last part that you missed. Shorty has always been like this before he even met Bron. In this little prespective, you really can't use Shorty to figure out Bron, can you? ;)
Okay, I got that part out of my mind. Now let's see what Malte does to counter it.
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I suppose the label "cold-hearted" I attached to Bron is missing the point. The term doesn't describe the nature of Bron's actions respectively inactions. You are right about that, no doubt.
"Indifferent" may be more to the point. Bron didn't really care whether the kids followed him or not. If one of the kids in his company had been attacked I suppose he would have cared enough to fight of an attacker (which might be a thread to him as well). But had the kids not followed him there is nothing to suggest that leaving them to probable death would have triggered so much as a shrug from Bron. His care about his herd too seems rather dubious and LBT 10 is contradictory in itself about this point. While on the one hand it is said that all longnecks (save Ali, save Ali's mother, save the Old One, save Doc...) went to that crater it seems that Bron left a part of his herd behind on the way. At the end of movie he is so extremely eager to rejoin the part of the herd he left that he will do so rather than go with his recovered son. But why does a leader leave a part of his herd in the first place? Where did he leave them? Did he leave them unprotected in the Mysterious Beyond which seems to have some population of sharpteeth in the area surrounding the crater? Or did he leave them in a sheltered place he refers to as "back home" unless my memory is cheating me? The later case would strongly imply that Bron and his herd settled in a kind of Great Valley like place (which would support the view that Bron had abandoned any thought of continuing his search for Littlefoot). In other parts of the movie it is suggested that Bron is leading a migrating herd (this is implied in the flashback and by his promise to come to the Great Valley with his herd). Whichever way I turn it, it doesn't make any sense.
If Bron went to the Great Valley throughout LBT 5 he either must have left his herd behind once again, or else he must have led the whole herd through a large part of land with no food at all (remember the long Journey in LBT 5 before the herd decided to split up), which isn't very thoughtful either. I'm afraid we must settle for the fact that either way Bron wasn't mentioned in LBT 5 because by that time nobody knew he would be introduced to LBT some day ;)
I like your comparison of Shorty and Bron. With all his rough shell Shorty seems to be able to care more about others than Bron. Then again he apparently needs a perilous situation to show that kind of responsibility (he acted bullyish not only towards Littlefoot when he was introduced in LBT 10).
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If Bron went to the Great Valley throughout LBT 5 he either must have left his herd behind once again, or else he must have led the whole herd through a large part of land with no food at all (remember the long Journey in LBT 5 before the herd decided to split up), which isn't very thoughtful either. I'm afraid we must settle for the fact that either way Bron wasn't mentioned in LBT 5 because by that time nobody knew he would be introduced to LBT some day ;)
Okay, what I meant by him finding it during LBT 5, was that he had yet to develop the so called "herd" that he made. In other words, it is meant to be after he began his "rather long" search for his son but before he met Shorty.
But thank you for helpping me in clearing that voice. I hope that makes it shut up already! :angry:
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He checks whether his son is among the kids, finds he isn't, and moves on. Bron doesn't even open his mouth. No word of encouragement, no question if they know anything about the whereabouts of his son, and least of all an invitation to the kids to come along with him. He didn't decide to take care of the kids. They just followed him, knowing it would be safer for them and Bron apparently didn't mind. He did not offer his protection to them, they just took it.
But that doesn't disprove one thing: the tragedy he endured. It probably left him a bit callous, unwilling to open up his heart to others for fear of being hurt again. Bron probably couldn't face the pain of seeing those young longnecks because it reminds him of the son he lost. Maybe he thought he wouldn't be a good caretaker, and didn't want to cause the deaths of more lives.
Plus, LBT stories do *not* tell you the whole story. They never have. So Bron probably did talk to the kids; we just don't see it in the background. But just because we don't see it does not mean it didn't happen.
That's certainly true, but did the Sahara come into existence in as short a time as it takes for a dinosaur egg to hatch? With all the dramatic changes that took place the Sahara didn't turn from a lush pasteure into a sandbox within a few days (as must have been the case according to Bron's story). The only possible explanation for such an abrupt change might be a meteor impact, yet even in that case the region not directly affected by the resulting fires (which would have killed the dinosaurs there) wouldn't turn from green into grey in a day. Bron must have had the time to return unless he wandered a distance that would take him months to cover at least; and why would he?
That was only an example, nothing more. I wasn't refering there being a tilt at the time of this, but just to show climate can change very rapidly. Another trigger is the pole shiftings. They can cause abrupt, and devastating changes in the landscape. Not only that, but they cause changes in the electromagnetic field, shifting north into south and east into west.
This abrupt change can cause deadly transformations in the weather. Whether or not they happen overnight, I do not know. But there must have been a reason Bron left alone to find a new home if he could sense the change coming. Maybe it was a good thing he left alone. Think about it; had they all gone, if something terrible happened, they would have all died. But instead, Bron was probably making the ultimate sacrifice by being the only one to go, so if something bad did happen, only he would suffer, and his son would have a chance.
I do not see it as an excuse for Bron though. Even if we accept that he didn't see some things with his heart (a point I'm willing to accept) the location of the Great Valley seems to be common knowledge in the sequels, or in the lands west of the lands from the original movie. Ali's herd knows where the Great Valley is located, Doc does, so do the Farwalkers in LBT 7, and the spiketails in LBT 8. Even Mo's waterkin (whom I suppose never got anywhere near the Valley) could give directions towards the Great Valley. Under this condition it is hard for me to believe that anyone really looking for the Great Valley would be unable to find it.
Once again, I look at what Bron was going through after he learned about his wife's death. When you lose someone you care about, you don't tend to be thinking straight; your mind is clouded. Even things that are so obvious seem to alude you. And losing a partner is one of the most devastating things that can happen. It is a life-changing experience, in a negative way.
Bron probably fell into depression, just like Littlefoot did. Perhaps Bron forgot about asking directions because of his loss and his guilt about leaving in the first place. And when you don't think about something for a long time, it can disappear from your mind, or be pushed far back into your mind. This probably happened to Bron.
And something else to consider: during this time, the dinosaurs were keeping to themselves, to their own kind. Now one would think, "But if he just wants directions, wouldn't they help?" Well I would think so if I didn't know about a Land Before Time book where the kids encounger two different species of dinosaurs. One had treestars, the other had water. One was thirsty, the other hungry. Littlefoot suggested that they share, but they refused to. Despite the fact they were both suffering, neither side cared about what happened to the other, and were so unwilling to be associated with them.
Bron was wandering during this time, when dinosaurs kept to their own kind, not liking to be near someone who wasn't like them. If Bron had tried to talk to, oh say, a Threehorn or a Spiketail, they would have given him the cold-shoulder, and thus he'd be left alone.
Now why couldn't he just talk to another longneck? Simple; perhaps he just couldn't find another longneck he could talk to. And what about the Farwalkers? Even if Bron knew they existed, what would be the odds of him finding them? And had he experienced negativity from other species of dinosaurs, maybe he would have thought what were the odds of the Farwalkers being willing to help.
Also, about Mo's waterkin, they live in the ocean. Bron was not anywhere near the ocean, now was he? So he could not have gotten directions from them; he probably didn't even know where the ocean was, or if it existed or not. He probably didn't know; remember Littlefoot's reaction when they first saw the ocean? They apparently haven't seen it before. Same is probably true for Bron.
Shorty in particular is the best example for Bron's indifference. He is one of the interesting characters which I hold in favor of LBT 10. But do you think Shorty would have ever turned into a bully if Bron had cared about him beyond saving him from being killed so long he stayed close enough? Throughout the whole movie the only scene in which Bron shows some genuine kindness to Shorty is when during the herd's departure he takes him onto his head. Shorty might have considered Bron a father, but Bron did not consider him a son. From what Bron told Littlefoot. All the others young longnecks found parents, but not Shorty. Bron didn't even consider being a kind of fatherfigure for Shorty! One might argue that he was allegedly so focused on finding his son that he may have had no mind at all for Shorty, but it is not a sign of him being particularly warm-hearted if he apparently feels he couldn't take care of another kid. Bron seems to be more like a leader than a parent to Shorty. Did he even try to talk to Shorty after Littlefoot turned up? There is no such scene in the movie, and the determination of Shorty to leave suggests that there wasn't so much as a kind word to him.
Just because you don't see it does not mean it didn't happen. Bron was probably so overjoyed that he found out his son was indeed alive that he just didn't want to let go. Have you ever felt like you almost lost something, and when you found out you didn't, you don't want to let go, for fear of losing it?
Bron did show a hint of guilt near the ending, if I remember correctly. He obviously did feel bad about hanging out with Littlefoot and not with him, but I don't think he was mistreating Shorty. He never actually told Shorty he couldn't hang out with him and his son, nor did he actually say he didn't consider himself a fatherly figure. I believe he did; and this is apparent in the first scene we see him in.
He disciplined and corrected Shorty when he saw him trip Littlefoot. Bron would not have done this if he didn't consider himself a fatherly figure. If I remember correctly, Bron never said he didn't adopt Shorty. He didn't mention it, but that doesn't automatically mean he didn't. So I do believe Bron really was caring for Shorty; we just don't see much of it in the movie.
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You raise quite the interesting point, DarkHououmon. I myself have gone through the pain of losing someone I cared about. :cry2 I understand some of the pain Bron went through. I still think about the one I loved and lost to this day, but I don't let it get in the way of living my life the way I want. Who knows? I just might have another chance. :) And if I don't, I'll always remember the good times I had.
Be it a family member, a close friend or someone who inspired you, losing them can hurt you so much, you can become depressed. Bron lost his wife. I'm sure he cared about her deeply, otherwise, why would he go through such a state of depression?
It seems the only reason he was indifferent was that he went through a state of depression. An experience like that can turn even the kindest person into a cold blooded being. :cry
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It seems the only reason he was indifferent was that he went through a state of depression. An experience like that can turn even the kindest person into a cold blooded being.
I can agree with that. I don't think Bron was hit as hard as other people can be, but it still probably dramatically changed his behavior, and make him appear like a cold-hearted person when in fact he truly was not.
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but it still probably dramatically changed his behavior, and make him appear like a cold-hearted person when in fact he truly was not.
I actually Very much like your ideas, Darkhououmon! :yes You convince me so far that perhaps there is some legitimate aspects to Bron's behaviour.
I completely agree with you; the journey to the Great Valley is one of following the heart. If the heart has been damaged, tainted, or broken, I suspect that the direction may not be there, either.
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If the heart has been damaged, tainted, or broken, I suspect that the direction may not be there, either.
The counter for this would be that, if Littlefoot was just as depressed, why hadn't he just forgot about the Great Valley altogether? Why was he still able to find his way to the valley?
This comes down to two things. The first one is the scene where he sees his mother's reflection and hears her voice. It is her spirit, talking to him. She reminded him, and thanks to her, Littlefoot now remembered the directions. The other could be because of his age. Littlefoot was a kid, young and pure, and more open-minded. As stated in the novel for Jurassic Park, kids can sometimes "see" better than adults, they notice things adults do not.
Now we have Bron, who is an adult, and is more willing to believe the "logical" explaination for things. He probably lost his child-like innocense, and probably doesn't even believe in spirits. If he didn't believe in spirits, even if LF's mom was able to contact him, Bron's closed-mindedness, if you could call it that, would have prevented her from being able to inform him of the valley's location.
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You are raising some very good points DarkHououmon and I want to emphasize that, if I call some of them into question, I'm not forcibly trying to disprove you. I suppose as far as some of the points are concerned I suppose neither of us is right or wrong but that the "truth" may well be somewhere in between our views.
This abrupt change can cause deadly transformations in the weather. Whether or not they happen overnight, I do not know. But there must have been a reason Bron left alone to find a new home if he could sense the change coming. Maybe it was a good thing he left alone. Think about it; had they all gone, if something terrible happened, they would have all died. But instead, Bron was probably making the ultimate sacrifice by being the only one to go, so if something bad did happen, only he would suffer, and his son would have a chance.
Whatever this strange disaster was that turned the world upside down, not allowing Bron the time to return nor his wifes and her parents to wait for Bron's return, if Bron or anyone indeed sensed that it would come, Bron's actions may be even less excusable. Leaving a pregnant wife when you feel disaster is about to strike may be interpreted as the ultimate sacrifice, but it is the pregnant wife who is being sacrificed! I don't see how Bron would be the only one to suffer when leaving the place where he senses a disaster is going to strike, leaving others behind at that place. From that perspective it would look almost like a getaway of Bron (almost, as he wouldn't have returned in case of a getaway unless consciousness struck him). So the image of Bron might be kinder if we assume that he didn't sense the comming disaster when he left his wife, but if he didn't, the question remains why on earth he had to leave in the first place when they seemed to be in a place that seemed to be just perfect to hatch an egg to then move on (if necessary).
As for the question of Bron being not told about the Great Valley, I named the Farwalkers and Mo's waterkin only to show how far spread the knowledge about the Great Valley is in general. I didn't mean to suggest that Bron had accidentaly stumbled on either group to ask them, but rather that there must be many dinosaurs out there to know about the location of the Great Valley. Perhaps more dinosaurs know than not. Littlefoot told Ducky in the original movie that his mother had told him that all herds were heading for the Great Valley. If that was so, or even of merely a majority of the herds did, Bron would not even have had to ask anyone. All he should have done was to follow the herds or ther tracks. No need to meddle with "non-longnecks" (you are having a good point about the racism prevailing at that time which probably limited communication among the species. I have the book with the chapter you mentioned and I find it an awful shame that this important chapter wasn't part of the movie). Also there were other herds of longnecks out there whom Bron might have accompanied (we see one other herd of longnecks throughout the original movie). And longnecks are probably easier to find than other species (Cera points out their clear footprints in LBT 10). But again, with all herds headed for the Great Valley there was no need at all for Bron to talk to anyone if he didn't want to. All he had to do was follow their tracks which isn't asked too much if the prize might be his only son. One might argue that Bron maybe didn't want to find the Great Valley as he wanted to find his son; but at this point the cat bites its own tail, for finding the Great Valley meant at least a very good chance to find his son. For this reason I find it very hard to forgive Bron for never turning up there. Even if he did just the moment when nobody was there in LBT 5, as has been suggested, Bron would have really taken his time to get there. More time than it takes for the Valley to burn down and to regrow.
The matter of time is significant for yet another question. How much time passed from the moment Bron left his wife until her death by the claws and teeth of sharptooth? Looking at how much Littlefoot grew in that time I suppose it must have been at the very least two or three years. This assumption takes the fact into account that dinosaur kids seem to grow up faster than humans do; as demonstrated by Chomper. Was it really beyond Bron's limits to find his wife again in all that time?
We also know that Bron learned from somebody about the fate of his wife. And afterwards he apparently didn't talk to anyone to ask about the whereabouts of his son or the whereabouts of the Great Valley. I see what you mean when you mention the depressions Bron must have been suffering from upon learning about his wife's death (the much the more as I suppose there might have been some rightful feeling of guilt included), but if he was really serious about finding his son, the thought of and search for whom should have been the ultimate motivation for him to get on with life. If indeed it was for his depressions that he was unable to think clearly enough to head for the Great Valley, I really don't see how anyone could consider him as capable of clear thinking as would be required for the leader of a herd.
Bron did show a hint of guilt near the ending, if I remember correctly. He obviously did feel bad about hanging out with Littlefoot and not with him, but I don't think he was mistreating Shorty. He never actually told Shorty he couldn't hang out with him and his son, nor did he actually say he didn't consider himself a fatherly figure. I believe he did; and this is apparent in the first scene we see him in.
He disciplined and corrected Shorty when he saw him trip Littlefoot. Bron would not have done this if he didn't consider himself a fatherly figure. If I remember correctly, Bron never said he didn't adopt Shorty. He didn't mention it, but that doesn't automatically mean he didn't. So I do believe Bron really was caring for Shorty; we just don't see much of it in the movie.
Of course we may speculate about what kind actions or words of Bron were kept from the audience. Looking at what was not kept from us makes me seriously doubt Bron would have considered himself a fatherly figure. The most definite statement is (analogous) that all the other longneck kids found parents, but not Shorty. That statement is very clear I think.
I'm not saying he is mistreating Shorty, but he is neglecting him. Sometimes neglection is worse than the attention one gets from a stern educator. Had Bron really taken care of Shorty, how did Shorty turn into the bully as whom we got to know him? We do see Bron giving a lecture to Shorty for tripping Littlefoot (something anyone might do if wittnessing such a scene), but with "his" longnecks being just one group out of many I suppose a herd leader must make sure they behave themselves. There wasn't something really parental about that scene.
You are quite right when you mention that LBT doesn't tell the whole story, but with all the dubious actions of Bron it is hard for me to think of the parts which must have been left out to give a good explanation for all this. Such left out parts would be way too important to be just left out. I think the parts we did see tell us quite a bit already, while parts we weren't shown are left to speculation. Different as speculations are for every individual they are of limited use in a discussion.
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I'm not saying he is mistreating Shorty, but he is neglecting him.
Neglect is the same is mistreatment. It's a form of mistreatment. And Bron was not doing this to Shorty. There's really no evidence I can see that proves so. If he truly was being neglected, then why would Shorty consider him a kind of father? If he was being neglected, he would not have wanted to be Bron's adoptive son, the way I see it.
And how did he turn into the bully even though Bron possibly took care of him? Well a bully is just generally someone who likes to boss others around. This can come from even a well-took-care-of person. A bully is, indeed, sometimes mistreated or neglected, but that isn't always the requirement to produce a "bully".
Perhaps Shorty was already like that before Bron had met him, and it wasn't because he was neglected; but because, as I think Bron stated, he and the others had been alone, orphaned. Shorty was probably the hardest hit, and he started to become aggressive to protect himself. And this behavior stayed with him because, to Shorty, this behavior saved his life before Bron showed up.
We must also remember that these are still animals, not people, and thus they have a different society from what we have. Now if Bron really had neglected Shorty, that was probably from a human's perspective. But from a dinosaur's perspective, it probably wasn't. Remember, they are not humans, they are still animals, regardless if they are given human emotions or not.
Here's a statement from Shorty himself, "Now that he has you, he'll ignore me like everyone else." Now what does this statement tell you? It obviously indicates that Bron was not neglecting Shorty. Shorty fears that he would be neglected after Bron found Littlefoot, but, according to that very statement Shorty says, there could not have been neglect, otherwise Shorty would probably have said instead, "I'll never get him to pay attention to me, especially now that he has you."
All he should have done was to follow the herds or ther tracks.
That would be easy, but we must consider the landscape. It was hard, and rocky in most areas, if I remember correctly. Footprints would have been hard to find, and also, how would Bron know if they were going in the right direction or not? If he had forgotten the way to the Great Valley, then how could he trust the footprints were going in the right way?
Yes there are footprints around, but that doesn't truly mean Bron would have recognized them as a way to the Great Valley, especially if he found them while he was in that darker state of mind, not able to think as clearly as he could later on.
Yes it would seem the knowledge of the Great Valley was far spread, but is that really true? Ali's herd probably just came onto the valley by chance. They saw what looked like their home, and they came in. This doesn't mean they knew of the valley's existance beforehand.
There are probably many groups of Farwalkers, and of those many, perhaps only a small percent knew where the valley was. Maybe the larger end didn't know it existed. After all, the world is a big big place. What are the odds that most dinosaurs would know of a place such as the Great Valley, which is only a small speck of a massive area?
Leaving a pregnant wife when you feel disaster is about to strike may be interpreted as the ultimate sacrifice, but it is the pregnant wife who is being sacrificed! I don't see how Bron would be the only one to suffer when leaving the place where he senses a disaster is going to strike, leaving others behind at that place. From that perspective it would look almost like a getaway of Bron (almost, as he wouldn't have returned in case of a getaway unless consciousness struck him). So the image of Bron might be kinder if we assume that he didn't sense the comming disaster when he left his wife, but if he didn't, the question remains why on earth he had to leave in the first place when they seemed to be in a place that seemed to be just perfect to hatch an egg to then move on (if necessary).
No, Bron's intention was not to sacrifice his wife, but to sacrifice himself. When I think of it, if Bron had taken the pregnant longneck with him, and they were in the middle of a harsh environment, even worse than what Littlefoot would eventually be born into, then they would all suffer. Because of Bron, his son would be born in a place where he would be killed almost right away.
Also we must consider what might have happened the day Bron left. How do we know that they didn't talk to each other about what to do? Maybe Bron had told his wife that, if he didn't return on time, before their son hatched, to leave for the Great Valley (provided he knew it existed) and never stop to wait for him, to think about the safety of the child first.
So Bron left to find a new home, but perhaps told his wife to leave if he took too long. We must consider that the world is a huge place, and what would take only several hours for humans to accomplish would take Bron days, maybe even weeks, to accomplish. Perhaps the land he was on was only a large oasis, and they were surrounded by desert-like regions. And perhaps it was shrinking. Sensing the crisis, Bron would leave, but had a plan B: to have his wife leave before it was too late rather than await his return.
Bron didn't leave just because he wanted to. Judging from the look on his face and the way he and his wife interacted, it is clear that Bron did *not* truly want to leave. Given the choice, he would have stayed, but he decided to go, for the good of the family. If Bron knew what was going to happen, surely he would not have left. But one cannot predict the future. How was Bron to know that, by the time he returned, his wife would be dead and his son gone? How was he to know that, because of his leaving, his own son was orphaned and left all alone? He isn't psychic.
I really don't see how anyone could consider him as capable of clear thinking as would be required for the leader of a herd.
Thinking has nothing to do with it rather than the energy he was starting to project. Now this is merely just reference to the Dog Whisperer, but it could apply here too. A true alpha dog always has calm assertive energy when he or she wants the others to follow his or her orders. They do *not* reward their followers, they just expect them to behave.
If dinosaurs are the same way, then the energy Bron was feeling was sensed by the other dinosaurs, and they considered him to be leader-material, even if Bron probably felt he wasn't worthy. Was it really Bron's choice to be leader? Or was he forced into position because everyone wanted him to be?
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I don't suppose one could argue the fact that Shorty looks up to Bron as a fatherfigure. But one might well doubt whether Bron considers Shorty a son. The quote you gave certainly indicates that Bron must have cared to a certain degree about Shorty before he arrival of Littlefoot.
Nevertheless the quote of Bron according to which the other longencks all found somebody, but not Shorty makes it clear that (while he may feel some compassion) he didn't see him as a son. I also feel that it would have been more sensitive if Bron had talked to Shorty after he found Littlefoot, rather than sending Littlefoot to talk to Shorty (just to wittness Shorty's fierce and rude reaction to Littlefoot).
The only real sign of affection Bron ever shows to Shorty is when he lifts him upon his head near the end of the movie. There is a "Bron friendly" interpretation of all this. Perhaps Bron never ever allowed himself to show any real affection feeling that by doing so he might either give up his son or else "betray his memory".
The revovery of Littlefoot may have ultimately "legitimated" the adoption of Shorty in the eyes of Bron.
Maybe this is also why the relatively short statement "like brothers" from Littlefoot has such an extreme reconciliating effect on Shorty. When Littlefoot adopted Shorty as a brother, it was perhaps Littlefoot doing what Shorty had always hoped Bron to do. Realizing the changed relationship between Littlefoot and Shorty may have caused Bron to drop his reservations against the latter.
People who are taken care off can well turn into bullies, no doubt. Pampered little princes and princesses who consider themselves the center of the universe can be as bullyish as bullyish can be. But with a proper raising and education chances for a person to turn into a bully are abysmal. LBT 10 doesn't give any real indication that Bron cared more about Shorty than about any other herdmember (save maybe those he left behind as the producers of LBT 10 needed an excuse for Bron not to accompany Littlefoot to the Great Vally).
Of course life had already formed Shorty by the time he found Bron, but nevertheless presuming that this event was around the time of the original movie there was plenty of time for Bron to bring down some of the walls Shorty had built around himself. Bron doesn't seem to have taken any real efforts to rise and educate Shorty.
As for tracks on rocky ground, if we adopted the rules of LBT 10 to the oringinal movie it would be possible. Cera, Ducky, Petrie, and Spike seemed to be able not to loose the track of Littlefoot and his grandparents on rocky ground (and not even in a swamp).
Knowledge of the Great Valley seems to have been very far spread by the time of the original movie; at least it is according to the claim of Littlefoot's mother that it was where all herds where heading. The claim is in conflict with the narrator's statement according to which "some" of the herds searched for the Great Valley. Either way knowledge of it seemed to be quite far spread.
Bron tells his story in a way as to suggest dinosaurs just started to follow him as their leader. The flashback itself shows little of some energy the other dinosaurs apparently felt; but here your justified claim that the movie doesn't show everything may be applied. Surely there must have been something that made others look up to Bron.
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The only real sign of affection Bron ever shows to Shorty is when he lifts him upon his head near the end of the movie.
I don't consider that statement or the quote as proof positive of Bron's neglect. I haven't watched the movie recently, but from the way it sounded, Bron was talking in past tense, not present tense, so I keep thinking that Bron was only referring to what happened not long before his herd formed, not very recent events. There's no evidence to prove, or disprove it in my opinion, but Bron may have adopted Shorty before Littlefoot came.
Now someone might ask that, if he was adopted, why doesn't he stay close to Bron. Simple answer: the herd itself. The size of the herd makes it very safe for youngsters to wander around. As Bron said, sharpteeth won't attack a herd that size. So Shorty is safe with and without Bron as long as he stays close to the herd.
Also we must remember just what species these creatures are. They are sauropods. Watching a documentary I learned that the scientific theory about sauropods is that they lay their eggs and then leave them to fend for themselves. Young sauropods are capable of taking care of themselves if need be. This is proven in Littlefoot's case when he survives without his mother during the journey to the Great Valley.
But then, why did Littlefoot's mother stay behind to take care of him? Another simple answer: she wanted to protect "the next generation" so the species will survive. It's an instinct that all animals have, I think, and it may have caused a change in behavior and had the sauropods look after their young rather than abandon them like their kind usually would.
There is another special exception in the "normal sauropod behavior" and that's with Ali's herd. Since they migrated so much, if they laid an egg and it hatched, the herd would be long gone by then. But it is indicated that the herd lived inside the valley itself all these years, and migrated to different parts. They could have easily come back and let Ali join the herd.
Also Ali said that she spent much of her life socializing with just other longnecks. If she was left with other eggs and had siblings or playmates, then yes this would be true. Ali's timid behavior could derive from how young sauropods might have lived; hiding from fear, being very cautious around creatures they don't know.
So what I am pointing out is that, if Bron didn't adopt Shorty, it wasn't a bad thing. It wasn't like they were out in the Mysterious Beyond, all scattered into tiny groups, giving the sharpteeth the opportunity to attack. No, they were living in a small valley in a huge herd. Shorty could live just fine both on his own and with the direct care of Bron. After all he is a tough kid.
As for tracks on rocky ground, if we adopted the rules of LBT 10 to the oringinal movie it would be possible. Cera, Ducky, Petrie, and Spike seemed to be able not to loose the track of Littlefoot and his grandparents on rocky ground (and not even in a swamp).
This doesn't mean that Bron could have followed them. We must not forget weather, which can wash away the tracks, depending on the severity of the weather, or at least hide them. And if Bron were in his state of depression, he might have forgotten to follow the footprints, or even forgotten the significance they might have held.
To reply to your earlier statement on that, if Bron really was determined to find his son, he should've snapped himself back to reality and forced himself to move on, to keep trying. Now this seems like a logical idea. However, we must still remember Bron's tattered state of mind. Not able to think straight, making mistakes, etc.
Also, here's something to consider: Bron just might have stumbled upon his wife's body. There's no reason to suggest that he didn't. Seeing her like that would have worsened his state. This alone may have caused Bron to lose hope of ever finding his son, and thus this may have been the final straw that left his spirit broken, and no longer able to naturally know where the Great Valley was.
He would then blindly walk on, looking for Littlefoot, but always walking in one direction. His spirit is broken, and when someone's spirit is broken, it can take a long time to recover. Bron would try to hold on to some hope he'd find his son, but perhaps he would come upon a body that he thinks is Littlefoot, and is convinced his son is dead.
When he comes upon the small herd of baby longnecks, some glimmer of hope is renewed. Maybe one of them is his son. Alas this isn't so, and Bron may lose that hope again. I'm sure Bron's hope is somewhat renewed sometime after the formation of the herd. Perhaps Shorty is the one that renews Bron's hope.
But then why didn't he leave to the valley? Well maybe the loss of his ability to find the valley was permanent, and no matter how hard he tried, he just couldn't remember. Maybe one of the others could have lead him. Perhaps, but that doesn't directly mean that they would leave to the Great Valley. They were quite content on staying in the tiny valley where sharpteeth don't dare attack.
The longnecks seem to be quite cowardly too. Look at how they behaved when the sharpteeth attacked. They were paranoid to leave the safety of the valley, not even to help the little ones. Of the herd, only Bron was brave enough to leave and fight off the meat-eaters. So Bron isn't afraid to leave the walls of the tiny valley, but even if Bron had planned on going to the Great Valley, his biggest task would be to get the herd to come out.
He may be leader, but trying to get many cowardly longnecks to move outside the valley, despite how little of a chance there was to being attacked by sharpteeth, may be an obstacle that Bron couldn't overcome when he tried in the past. He also couldn't just leave them; they had appointed him leader, and as leader it was his responsibility to look after them, whether he wanted the position or not.
His message to Littlefoot about "dragging his herd to the Great Valley" is another indicator that getting the herd to leave will be quite a challenge. But Bron seems to be willing to try again. Whether or not it will be successful, no one can be too sure. But perhaps a later movie or an episode will verify if it does work.
Perhaps Bron never ever allowed himself to show any real affection feeling that by doing so he might either give up his son or else "betray his memory".
Hmm...I don't agree with this. I don't see why Bron would think showing affection towards someone else would be betrayal. I mean I show affection to other dogs, but my dog doesn't feel betrayed. People show affection towards a variety of things, not just a single few.
So Bron should not feel like he is betraying anyone just by showing affection towards Shorty or the other young longnecks. And he is certainly not giving up his son. I mean, if I had a kid, and lost the kid, maybe the kid ran away, and I gave affection to another kid, I am not giving up the first child at all. I am rather trying to ease my pain instead.
Now if Bron is faced with the same situation, then him showing affection to Shorty would help ease his pain, not make him give up or betray Littlefoot. But this showing affection would probably only surface after Bron has found the courage to move on, and break free of his depression, for the most part.
Knowledge of the Great Valley seems to have been very far spread by the time of the original movie; at least it is according to the claim of Littlefoot's mother that it was where all herds where heading.
Yes far spread, but that no way says that all or most of the dinosaurs knew the location. And taking what Action9000 had stated earlier, if Bron had went the opposite way, he would have indeed ended up in the wrong place. Now one can say he can ask for directions, but what if the directions were always the same? "Follow the bright circle to where it touches the ground." Now LBT10, as you say, suggests that footprints are easy to find. But does this mean Bron could have found them? No, not a chance.
Let's not forget that the Mysterious Beyond, the world, is huge. There is little chance of Bron being able to find the right set of tracks, leading in the right area. If he didn't meet up with a herd, and only knew the "follow the bright circle", he might have chosen to follow foosteps, if he found any, that lead in the wrong direction because he may have believed he should follow the morning sun and not the evening sun.
If Bron had truly believed this, that he was going the right way, he would probably not believe any dinosaur with the right directions, and perhaps tell them that they are the ones who are wrong. Bron would realize his mistake too late, but when I'm not sure. Perhaps after he reaches the small valley.
he flashback itself shows little of some energy the other dinosaurs apparently felt
One must understand that you cannot see energy, let alone see it happen. The flashback doesn't show everything, in fact it shows only a tiny tiny fraction of what actually happened.
The closest thing to see energy in progress is to watch a pack of dogs, especially a newcomer dog being introduced. One with an untrained eye won't see anything, but an expert dog handler would be most likely to notice how the energy from the calm dogs affects the behavior of the newcomer dog. The same process could have worked in the cause of the sauropods.
Surely there must have been something that made others look up to Bron.
The energy is one of the ways this might have occurred. Another is if Bron told them what he been through. If Bron had told the others about how he lost his wife and may have lost his son, but continued to search the Mysterious Beyond, still having some hope of finding his son, then taking in a little ground of longnecks, despite the state of mind he was in, facing the perils of the Mysterious Beyond all alone, all this may have helped the herd consider him a leader, and a role model to look up to.
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Now someone might ask that, if he was adopted, why doesn't he stay close to Bron. Simple answer: the herd itself. The size of the herd makes it very safe for youngsters to wander around. As Bron said, sharpteeth won't attack a herd that size. So Shorty is safe with and without Bron as long as he stays close to the herd.
But then why did all the other young longnecks find parents to whom they apparently stuck? The theory suggests that Shorty didn't want a parent so long he was save with the herd. There may be characters who would rather choose "independence" of having no one "in charge" over the safety and love of a family life. There are some points to suggest such tendencies for Shorty. The extreme importance of Bron for Shorty (it is the disappointment of lacking attention from him that makes Shorty leave the herd) however clearly shows that Bron is not with the herd for mere safety reasons but actually did look for something more.
Also we must remember just what species these creatures are. They are sauropods. Watching a documentary I learned that the scientific theory about sauropods is that they lay their eggs and then leave them to fend for themselves. Young sauropods are capable of taking care of themselves if need be. This is proven in Littlefoot's case when he survives without his mother during the journey to the Great Valley.
I'm afraid this is a case where science is of limited use to understand the LBT dinosaurs. There can be no doubt that the LBT characters are anthropomorphized rather then kept as close as possible to the prehistoric truth. Family bonds in the land before time are MUCH closer as they were for real dinosaurs. A matrimonial relationship such as that of Littlefoot's grandparents didn't exist for most species. The same goes for parental care in case of most species.
With the extremely different picture we get from Shorty's own reactions to Bron I really don't think we can apply the prehistoric accuracy as a valid argument here without turning all of the land before time upside down. There is no reference whatsoever to actually suggest that any LBT dinosaur mother acted faithful to science in this case.
Apart from Ali whom you suspect might have been recovered after being left behind we also see longnecks hatching in LBT 9 and the mother is around to protect them (as Cera clearly expected her to be the moment before the she appears).
With Littlefoot, Ali, and the tiny longnecks in LBT 11, we have at least three cases where longneck parents care about their hatchlings in the LBT world. The only case of an egg being forsaken by parents that comes to my mind can be found in the rather dubious shape of the legend of the lone dinosaur (and in the flashback from LBT 6 we have yet another case of a longneck kid being cared for by her mother).
Also, here's something to consider: Bron just might have stumbled upon his wife's body. There's no reason to suggest that he didn't. Seeing her like that would have worsened his state. This alone may have caused Bron to lose hope of ever finding his son, and thus this may have been the final straw that left his spirit broken, and no longer able to naturally know where the Great Valley was.
I don't think so. Bron mentioned that someone (who?) told him about Littlefoot's mother and the sharptooth. One might conjure up some sensitivity on Bron's part as a reason not to mention his finding of his wife's body in front of his son, but to me this would really seem very much like lunging for every possible straw that might do to break Bron's back as an excuse for his later actions and inactivities. When he was talking to Littlefoot he seemed quite calm. There would have been nothing wrong about mentioning that he found Littlefoot's mother. He wouldn't even have had to use any term like "body" or "corpse".
If indeed his mind was so all through messed up as required to justify all the things he can be blamed for I really find it hard to see him as so inspiring as to make everyone following him as their leader. If Bron had had any really good reason to suspect Littlefoot dead (I wish he had such a reason as it would make much of his inactivity appear more pardonable) I'm sure he would have mentioned this to Littlefoot. Without him mentioning it (and why would he conceal such an important point which might make his son understand why he hadn't been around all this time) I don't think Bron ever had any real point to think that Littlefoot was dead rather than missed.
But then why didn't he leave to the valley? Well maybe the loss of his ability to find the valley was permanent, and no matter how hard he tried, he just couldn't remember. Maybe one of the others could have lead him. Perhaps, but that doesn't directly mean that they would leave to the Great Valley. They were quite content on staying in the tiny valley where sharpteeth don't dare attack.
Again there is too much maybe in this theory. Whatever else I may think about Bron, he doesn't come accross as somebody who would forget things such as a way description. Even if he did it would have been easy enough to recover the information from others.
What is that tiny valley where sharpteeth don't dare attack? I don't remember any such place being mentioned in LBT 10. The only suggestion we ever get that Bron's herd is not a migrating herd (which is the impression we get from the flashback; which is of course set in an earlier time so the herd's way of life may have changed meanwhilse) is his statement near the end of LBT 10 when he tells Littlefoot that he can't way to introduce him to the others back home. We don't know anything sure about this home. If we presume Bron to be a responsible leader it must be save enough for a part of his herd to stay there by themselves. We don't know if they really stayed there as they felt saver there than with the rest of the herd. You pointed out earlier that Bron stated that sharpteeth don't attack a herd the size of his herd.
My point is that with a herd large enough to frighten sharpteeth away from attacking the herd Bron could have easily gone anywhere, including the Great Valley. If in spite of the security the large herd provided some members refused to come along Bron would have had to choose between the chance of finding his son (and the certainty to find a really pretty place to stay for a while or to even live ever after) and the cowardy longnecks. Who is leading that herd anyway? Or is the herd leading Bron? The started following him and everyone who doesn't want to follow him may leave. Being made the leader of the herd in fact gave Bron some authority to tell the others where to go. The Great Valley is certainly not the worst place for a herd of longnecks to go to. I don't see how Bron's being accepted as a leader by others inabled him to lead them to the Great Valley.
I can't see the herd and the cowardice of some longnecks as a good excuse for Bron's never trying to find the Great Valley.
Let's not forget that the Mysterious Beyond, the world, is huge. There is little chance of Bron being able to find the right set of tracks, leading in the right area. If he didn't meet up with a herd, and only knew the "follow the bright circle", he might have chosen to follow foosteps, if he found any, that lead in the wrong direction because he may have believed he should follow the morning sun and not the evening sun.
If Bron had truly believed this, that he was going the right way, he would probably not believe any dinosaur with the right directions, and perhaps tell them that they are the ones who are wrong. Bron would realize his mistake too late, but when I'm not sure. Perhaps after he reaches the small valley.
With the lack of problems the rough direction of the Great Valley imposed for the dinosaurs in the original movie I sure hope Bron's not the only one not to get the description right. In spite of rising in the east and setting in the west the direction the sun (or rather the earth's rotation) sets for dinosaurs to follow remains the same. I stick to the view supported by several statements from the original movie that who wanted to find the Great Valley was at least able to get the right direction. The sequels (4, 7, 8, 9) suggest that migrating herds and other beings who don't live in the Great Valley are well aware of its whereabouts. My point is that anyone who wants to get to the Great Valley can get to it provided he or she manages to stay alive and feels not above asking others for the way.
Trying to justify Bron's inability to find the Great Vally always seems to end in the conclusion that he must be very dense. This at least is one accusation against Bron I don't really support.
The closest thing to see energy in progress is to watch a pack of dogs, especially a newcomer dog being introduced. One with an untrained eye won't see anything, but an expert dog handler would be most likely to notice how the energy from the calm dogs affects the behavior of the newcomer dog. The same process could have worked in the cause of the sauropods.
There is a difference, I think, in the qualities that make an energetic dog and the qualities that make a responsible, caring, and intelligent herdleader.
The energy is one of the ways this might have occurred. Another is if Bron told them what he been through. If Bron had told the others about how he lost his wife and may have lost his son, but continued to search the Mysterious Beyond, still having some hope of finding his son, then taking in a little ground of longnecks, despite the state of mind he was in, facing the perils of the Mysterious Beyond all alone, all this may have helped the herd consider him a leader, and a role model to look up to.
In which case he would have been made the leader of the herd through the story of his lost son. Becoming the leader of the herd he pretty much abandoned looking for his son (this is the conclusion we must draw if indeed Bron and his herd settled at one fixed place). This doesn't reflect well on Bron's character in my opinion.
Hmm...I don't agree with this. I don't see why Bron would think showing affection towards someone else would be betrayal. I mean I show affection to other dogs, but my dog doesn't feel betrayed. People show affection towards a variety of things, not just a single few.
It was just a theory. Some humans decide to never marry again after becoming a widower or widow as they feel it would betray the memory of their past away loved ones. I thought that perhaps a similar emotion (which diminished after Bron found Littlefoot) may have contributed to keep Bron from acting like a father to Shorty. I may be wrong, but it was one excuse for Bron I could come up with.
There's no evidence to prove, or disprove it in my opinion, but Bron may have adopted Shorty before Littlefoot came.
Yes and no. I don't think we have had any good point without a "maybe" in it that supported the idea of Bron having adopted Shorty as a son. On the other hand there have been points proving that at least he wasn't totally ignoring Shorty. Neither of us will be able to prove the own view about the degree to which Bron is minding or ignoring Shorty. We both have some points to support the own view and decline the other. I still think that Bron's statement that Shorty didn't find any parents and the way in which Shorty developed strongly suggests that Bron didn't consider Shorty a son and didn't care as much about him as would have been necessary. Yet there must have been some care from Shorty's point of view as demonstrated by the quote of Shorty which you gave.
Perhaps we can settle for the golden middle.
Bron didn't ignore or willingly neglect Shorty, but he didn't give him nearly as much care as a parent would have.
In my opinion the final scene of the two suggests that this is going to change in the future and that Shorty might get a more important place in Bron's life as a result of the recovery of Littlefoot.
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It's not totally on topic, but I'm very curious now. What book is it that has that chapter someone mentioned? What's in the chapter? *really wants to know*
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(Yes, I know the topic's old. But I didn't want to make a new topic for this.)
1: Although we can't see any visible danger, there are thousands of reasons as to why they didn't stay there. We know that ultimately the land changed, and that forced Littlefoot's herd to move, but the announcer does say in the first film that "The leaves began to die". Maybe this was beginning to happen.
We don't know exactly what route Bron took. He may have even told them to leave if he wasn't back after a certain time. He might have found a valley, and turned back to find them. I think that the land appears destroyed rapidly due to an odd scene change. Whether or not he found a safe land (I think he went south, near the longneck canyon), he didn't find them because they had moved on. Basically, Bron made it back to their old home as the great earthquake hit. So that still leaves him a good while away from wherever they are (I think their nest was at the eastern limit of the divide. Whether or not Littlefoot was actually born there is unknown.) He would have had to follow the footprints of the adults to the divide, where they would abruptly finish. As for finding Littlefoot's mother, although people think he met Rooter, he would have given info on Littlefoot. At this point, Bron must have met a dino on the other side who informed him of her death. Bron would have found no evidence of a child, as Littlefoot wasn't old enough to leave lasting footprints in hard land. I assume that Bron lost all hope, and decided to return to the lands of the south.
Now I watched the scene again with the baby longnecks. Letting kids run free could be a longneck thing (Pat lets the GOF run rampant several times). Bron doesn't say that he looked after them; he says that in time they began to depend on him. This is two different things. If you ask me, he had no intention of looking after him. I think he was in a state of self-loathing, and was only thinking of himself. However, Shorty and the others followed him as he was the only grown-up they had seen in ages. Bron would have noticed them following him, realised his new responsibility, and started looking after them. Each of the longnecks who followed him seemed to be loners or stragglers. Presumably, they were all lost, and Bron seemed to be the only one who seemed to have a clue as to what he was doing. So basically, Bron is their leader because they made him it. They just randomly followed him. This could also be why he says they depend on him. They would panic without him.
This could also be why his herd is not at the crater (In reality, it's a plot point that someone forgot about). If they are all stragglers (Or possibly the older members of herds that got abandoned), they may not travel long distances well. Bron may have offered to travel to the area for them. This would also be why he has to get back, to prove that it wasn't dangerous. If they stayed behind, while their leader never returned from the new strange thing, they could panic. Of course, it may not have made sense to travel in a large herd. They didn't know what lay ahead, and moving an entire longneck herd for a dream would most likely doom them all if they ended up in a barren area. However, moving to the Great Valley would be doable as they know it's there.
As for why he didn't head for the valley in the first place, it sounds like it was a rumour that others followed. Chances are, a migrating herd walked past Littlefoot's mother's nest, and they heard about the "Great Valley", and decided to head there. Bron may not have heard of it, and returned to where he knew there was food. If Grandpa Longneck knew of the valley's existence, (He might have known of it under a different name) he would have told Bron, and he would have headed there. Unless Bron assumed that his parents in law had perished in the quake. I think he had given up all hope of ever seeing them again. Despite a bad start at looking after kids, he may be a motivated leader, by aiming not to let this herd die like his family (A similar thing happens in the Edge Chronicles, a character who was forced to abandon her child later looks after many orphans and leads them to a safe land to attone for her wrongdoing).
It seems that the longnecks there are all members of tiny herds, or possibly representatives. Did all the Longnecks have the dream? Ali is missing...
(I wonder...it could have been him...naah. The longnecks who eat all the trees in the copse may have been outcasts who later joined his herd. Or even his herd. After all, they go a different way and don't reach the valley.)
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Hats off to you for a really impressive entrance. I really like elaborate threads and you made quite a couple of those already within the short time you are around Almaron :yes
(Yes, I know the topic's old. But I didn't want to make a new topic for this.)
^ This is all the better as this way we have all points with reference to the topic in one thread rather than scattered over the whole board. May I know how long you have been around as a guest reading such threads from a land before this time? ;)
1: Although we can't see any visible danger, there are thousands of reasons as to why they didn't stay there. We know that ultimately the land changed, and that forced Littlefoot's herd to move, but the announcer does say in the first film that "The leaves began to die". Maybe this was beginning to happen.
Quite possibly so, but the main question for me is not so much about leaving than it is about leaving behind. With any sense of danger, would it not be a lot more sensible to remain in a group? If Bron was to go scouting ahead for the impending move it doesn't seem to make much sense to wander so far of as to not find his way back to the others for whatever time it took for Littlefoot to develop from an egg into a talking and reasonable longneck. We often tend to compare their states of development with that of humans. If we drop that assumption and instead believe them to develop much faster in their first days then to stop physical development for good for a long time ( :DD ), it would be quite possible that the events of the original LBT movie took place even before Littlefoot's first hatchday. But all this does not explain why Bron would be wondering of farther than a day or two ahead leaving his wife behind in a state of perceived danger.
If you ask me, he had no intention of looking after him.
That was pretty much my point too, that it was not for his concern that the kids ended up under his protection.
This could also be why his herd is not at the crater (In reality, it's a plot point that someone forgot about). If they are all stragglers (Or possibly the older members of herds that got abandoned), they may not travel long distances well. Bron may have offered to travel to the area for them. This would also be why he has to get back, to prove that it wasn't dangerous.
LBT is particularly shaky about many details here. While all longnecks are supposed to have that dream we know longnecks a plenty who are not around (Ali's herd, Doc, the longneck mother of LBT 9, every single longneck resident of the Great Valley except for Littlefoot and his grandparents etc.). But one thing that is rather obvious is that Bron once again left part of his herd behind. If that part was consisting of the weak and old who might not make the travel in sufficient time this would make Kron... pardon, Bron kind of a social Darwinist and that on the basis of a dream it really doesn't sound like he is living up to the responsibility of a herd leader. Now I would not have a problem with that if we could assume that in this position he is not so overly important and that the herd is running in a rather democratic fashion with everyone being able to make up the own mind on what to do and whom to follow, but with the repeated statements of Bron about how very dependent the herd is on him such an interpretation is questionable at best.
As for why he didn't head for the valley in the first place, it sounds like it was a rumour that others followed. Chances are, a migrating herd walked past Littlefoot's mother's nest, and they heard about the "Great Valley", and decided to head there. Bron may not have heard of it, and returned to where he knew there was food.
In a sense the Great Valley has been very demystified in the sequels. No longer something to see with your heart rather than with your eyes (there have been suggestions that an earlier concept for the movie actually had the Great Valley as a heaven after the death of all the main characters, an idea which would have been abandoned for the sake of the kids) the Great Valley has been turned not only into a very concrete place, but it has been further disenchanted by LBT 6 through the fact that Littlefoot's grandpa had been there before ("Erm yes, I forgot to mention at the time when your Mum was telling you about things to see with your heart... come to think of it I forgot to tell your Mum too... come to think of it I never mentioned it to Bron either... I am kind of forgetful" :lol) and through Doc's other places "just as nice" statement. I'm afraid there just isn't a way to make the original movie match with LBT 10 in that respect. Either we think of the Great Valley as the legendary purpose of the original movie and as something that could be seen even without ones eyes (something in short that Bron ought to have been aware of) or we can think of it of so random a place that Bron would never think of heading there looking for his kid or even for the benefit of himself and his herd.
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Quite possibly so, but the main question for me is not so much about leaving than it is about leaving behind. With any sense of danger, would it not be a lot more sensible to remain in a group? If Bron was to go scouting ahead for the impending move it doesn't seem to make much sense to wander so far of as to not find his way back to the others for whatever time it took for Littlefoot to develop from an egg into a talking and reasonable longneck.
For them to make such an odd decision, I think they must have had several options as to where to go, and little time. Bron took one route, and if time ran out, they would take the other, assuming that he had found nothing safe and/or was dead. He assumed they took the other route, then stopped looking after learning of her death.
I wonder if the time limit they had was the egg laying. They may have wanted to leave for a long time. If the eggs were laid in a dangerous place, (as they were in the first film) it might have been hard to save the babies (again, in the first film). If they had a baby to migrate with, it would have been even harder. Look how close Littlefoot came to getting eaten in 10 by that gator. The problem with the 10th film is that it fails to convey the sense of urgency that the first film does.
Maybe the beauty of the valley in the flashback is Bron's memory. It really would have made more sense if the land was dangerous. Either way, because of the first movie, we must assume that they had to leave that land for some reason.
LBT is particularly shaky about many details here. While all longnecks are supposed to have that dream we know longnecks a plenty who are not around (Ali's herd, Doc, the longneck mother of LBT 9, every single longneck resident of the Great Valley except for Littlefoot and his grandparents etc.). But one thing that is rather obvious is that Bron once again left part of his herd behind. If that part was consisting of the weak and old who might not make the travel in sufficient time this would make Kron... pardon, Bron kind of a social Darwinist and that on the basis of a dream it really doesn't sound like he is living up to the responsibility of a herd leader. Now I would not have a problem with that if we could assume that in this position he is not so overly important and that the herd is running in a rather democratic fashion with everyone being able to make up the own mind on what to do and whom to follow, but with the repeated statements of Bron about how very dependent the herd is on him such an interpretation is questionable at best.
Although, we have seen how quickly members of the GV panic and make the wrong choice. He may not be needed, but they may have gotten used to having him there for them. Wouldn't it also make sense not to take the entire herd on what could be a wild goose chase?
In reality, the answer to all the problems? Blame the scriptwriter for not thinking it through! However, that's where we come in, to muse and find out the missing information.
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In reality, the answer to all the problems? Blame the scriptwriter for not thinking it through! However, that's where we come in, to muse and find out the missing information.
Well put :yes
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I still think it would of been perfect if Littlefoot left with his father at the end. That way when they made Land Before Time 11 it could have more ideas. It could probably show Littlefoot returning a little older :yes
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That would have been a cool thing to see, IMHO, but it was probably too daring for the writers of the film...
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That would have been a cool thing to see, IMHO, but it was probably too daring for the writers of the film...
I mean after land before time 10 they seem to run out of ideas
thats why I only like 1-10.
but imagine if Land Before Time ended there. it would of been perfect because they can start a new version with them as teens and have more ideas. who agrees.
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Sorry, but I can't agree with that. We had nine movies, including the one and only original, to build up the awesome friendship between Littlefoot, Cera, Ducky, Petrie, and Spike. But all of a sudden in the tenth movie a stranger from the mysterious beyond appears with a very flimsy story to claim fatherhood of Littlefoot doing next to nothing in that story compensate for his lack of background and that should put an end to the being together of the awesome group that was formed in nine movies including the real one? Just because Bron (for more flimsy reasons) seems to be unable to get the Great Valley. Everyone make up his own mind but I really would have seen that one as an additional minus point of LBT 10.
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:exactly
The Gang has been through so much together and they seem to share sibling-like relationships, aside from Ducky and Spike since they're in the same family. For Littlefoot to break off from the others that easily would have been highly disappointing, not to mention it would leave me wondering just how much his pals really meant to him <_<. Think of his grandparents, too. It would be so wrong for him to just leave them even though they were raising him.
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continued from welcome thread
Ok, I'm not going to be as focused as I promised. I apologize. I would just like to understand why you were so disappointed with lbt10 besides the character of bron
I don't fail to notice the sensitivity of some scenes in LBT 10. I think some of the ideas had great potential, but that they were too careless and unconcerned to allow for that potential to evolve into something really good.
What about lbt10's plot did you feel unsatisfied with? Sorry if you answered this before in the thread, but I stopped reading half way through. Reading too much lit up text on a black background can hurt after a while.
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Well, trying to sum up the points I made in more detail in previous posts there was:
- Lack of plausibility / coherence with earlier movies in the overall plot (e.g. the whole sleepstory to all longnecks (save Ali's herd, Doc, any longneck not related to Littlefoot in the Great Valley...) to make them go on a journey through the Mysterious Beyond (which used to be depicted as quite a dangerous step to take in earlier movies).
- No coherency / plausibility whatsoever with both the story to explain Bron's absence all the time as well as his actions throughout the movie.
- Even though we had a rather lame sharptooth in LBT 8 already and even with the dreadfully poor sharpteeth of some later sequels those from LBT 10 were really painfully harmless (if a sharptooth trips over longnecks smaller than their feet who intentionally crawl under the feet to trip it something is seriously wrong).
- Apart from these points I also think that the animation had some weaknesses. LBT 9 had shown that it can work to combine near photorealistic animation (of the water) with the animation of LBT. In case of LBT some of the animation really didn't seem to fit in (e.g. that scene when Littlefoot runs up the tree), also the sad fancy of Mr. Grosvenor to turn everything red in case of danger came to a sad climax in this movie when not only the sky and the landscape but even the characters all turned red in dangerous moments (in some at least).
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One thing I was very disappointed with in LBT X involved the ending. Yes, Littlefoot's friends were being completely understanding of his possible decision to leave them and join up with Bron. That was the whole purpose of "Best Friends", which I absolutely loved. My main problem came after Littlefoot decided to stay in the valley. We see how happy his grandparents are with his decision, but what about his friends? They just kind of walk along as if nothing happened. Again, I get that they would have understood if Littlefoot wanted to be with his dad, but don't you think they would have had the same reaction his grandparents did? Now of course, it could have happened off screen, but that would have been kind of lame. In LBT IV, we see his friends (minus Cera) embracing Littlefoot and assuring him that they would miss him if he left with Ali's herd. I guess you can say that this moment was in the form of "Best Friends", but at the same time I would assume his friends would be overjoyed that he was staying with them. Call it an error, or call it me not understanding something, I just wish that some sort of reaction was shown from his friends.
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Reason why, is because from what I've heard about it, it's rather underrated to me.
I don't think so. If there ever was an underated LBT film, it would be "The time of the great giving". Sure, there are plenty of people who like this one, plenty who like 4 (which yes, I think is awesome!) plenty who like 7, plenty who like 5, plenty who like 9, yet for as good as 3 was, no one seems to like it, probably cause there weren't really very many tearjerking moments as some of the others. Well, that shouldn't be what entirely decides how ya feel about an LBT film. 3 was really beautiful and one of the best in the series, and I just find it odd how underated it is.
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While I don't hate the third movie, I don't really consider it an underrated movie, nor do I consider it one of the best LBT sequels. As for why, I can't really explain. And no it wasn't because there weren't very many sad moments in it. I just never liked the third movie as much as some others. It just didn't really impress me.
As for what movie I'd consider underrated, I can't really say.
On topic:
I've been thinking of rewatching the first and this movie to re-evaluate my opinion regarding Bron, and perhaps make a post later on.
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Yes, Littlefoot's friends were being completely understanding of his possible decision to leave them and join up with Bron. That was the whole purpose of "Best Friends", which I absolutely loved. My main problem came after Littlefoot decided to stay in the valley. We see how happy his grandparents are with his decision, but what about his friends? They just kind of walk along as if nothing happened. Again, I get that they would have understood if Littlefoot wanted to be with his dad, but don't you think they would have had the same reaction his grandparents did? Now of course, it could have happened off screen, but that would have been kind of lame. In LBT IV, we see his friends (minus Cera) embracing Littlefoot and assuring him that they would miss him if he left with Ali's herd. I guess you can say that this moment was in the form of "Best Friends", but at the same time I would assume his friends would be overjoyed that he was staying with them. Call it an error, or call it me not understanding something, I just wish that some sort of reaction was shown from his friends.
And what about the fact that they had no clue how he suddenly had a dad, they weren't even so much as introduced to Bron, they all apparently just assumed he was Littlefoot's long lost dad? What the hell is up with that?! How the heck did they apparently already know about Bron?!
I think it's awesome how much work the guy put into the beginning of this topic. But why can't someone do a huge analysis of the more interesting LBT films, like 5 and 9? Sure, 10 was interesting, but 5 and 9 were more intriguing in my opinion and I think they deserve an over-analysis too. Not that they were that great, but more intriguing!
Finally, what surprised me most, was with where it was going, those seeing it for the first time, and having zero knowledge of 11 existing, (Though nowadays I don't see how that's possible.) would think that 10 was it for the gang. That it was over basically. The final song, "Best Friends", was basically a goodbye song. If Littlefoot did go with his dad, that would've been it. With just a few steps of Littlefoot's goodbye, the series would've ended.
...I thought "Journey to Big Water" would have made a really good ending...just my opinion. :neutral
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And what about the fact that they had no clue how he suddenly had a dad, they weren't even so much as introduced to Bron, they all apparently just assumed he was Littlefoot's long lost dad? What the hell is up with that?! How the heck did they apparently already know about Bron?!
They did not. Unless memory cheats me during the fight with the sharpteeth Littlefoot calls something to Bron calling him Dad to which Cera asks very surprised: "Did you say Dad?!"
Later explanations must have happened off screen.
But why can't someone do a huge analysis of the more interesting LBT films, like 5 and 9?
And why can't you start doing them rather than demanding for others to do them for you? Most of the analysis of LBT 10 came about as a result from discussions partly based on the fact that it is one LBT movie which is more polarizing than many others.
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Things I liked about LBT 10:
Littlefoot and his grandparents crossing the swamp and Sue saving Littlefoot
Littlefoot, his grandparents and Sue walking at night in the scene that follows and Sue letting Littlefoot sleep on her (I really loveSue :))
Cera, Ducky, Spike and Petrie crossing the swamp = PURE ACTION AWESOMENESS
Shorty (I really like him, though he does start out a jerk)
Pat (Great character)
Things I ddn't really like:
"Adventuring"---wow, Littlefoot's going on an adventure! That's soooo new cause never not once in movies 1-9 did he EVER do that! Wow, that's soooo exiting! <_<
The ecclipse---overdone, people
Dumb Sharpteeth
Littlefoot going on his adventure w/ grandparents instead of with friends
Petrie's mom not appearing, and Ducky's mom and Cera's dad not really appearing
"Me and my dad", a cheesy song with nice visualls although I'm not positive any of 'em were real
"Bestest Friends" and thewhole ending---touching on 1srt view, on all subsequent ones it's obviously trying to outdo against the beaitiful ending of 9 and 9's beautiful final song and ending up looking stupid. Don't try to compete against a previous LBT film, universal! Create your own stuff!
Seriously could have done w/o
Littlefoot's dream at the beginning---god, what ever happened to "normalicy"? Longnecks floating? Littlefoot looking high? Sure, "Imaginary Friends" was something out of a nightmare but that was a song...this is just the beginning!!
Cera's nightmare---one of the scariest LBT moments in my opinion
"Littlefoot...this is your father." Seriously? Am I the only one that was actually OK with how his family was in 2-9? Sure I was curious about his dad but fafiction could have taken care of that. Bron was not in ANY means necessary, and as I've said before, the film series should have ended at the LATEST at "Journey to Big water".
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What was so scary about Cera's dream? From what I recall, it wasn't scary at all. All it was is that Cera saw that Littlefoot was praised for some kind of action, her father was upset by it, and Cera screamed not because of fright, but the shock of it all, and wakes up. And if I'm remembering it right, it doesn't even belong on the list of scariest LBT moments.
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Yeah, and Yellowbellies aren't scary either...the sheer brighntess and overwhelmingness of this all is enough to throw anybody over the egdge, I think. Cera's scream and then suddenly waking up was crepy too
Her dad wasn't upset, he was shouting "Little-foot! Little-foot!" which is scarier then he is when he's himself in real life, and a bit of a disapointment for someone who wanted Topps to get his typical film role, since this is all we see of him awake anyways
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Sorry. I just don't understand what you found so scary about Cera's dream. I don't recall anything really scary in it.
And no I don't find the yellowbellies frightening either.
Edit: I remember her father walking away, not cheering.
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.the sheer brighntess and overwhelmingness of this all is enough to throw anybody over the egdge, I think. Cera's scream and then suddenly waking up was crepy too
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It may have been frightening for Cera as the idea of Littlefoot suddenly becoming a hero without her and the other dinosaurs praising him for it would be too confusing for her to handle I would think. That and she still has a "threehorn pride" streak to her, so she'd naturally be bothered if a longneck became the hero of the world instead of a threehorn.
But as someone watching it, for me, it wasn't scary. The dream never really frightened me, neither did Cera's reaction. I haven't seen it in quite a while though, a year maybe, so I'd have to rewatch it to get a better idea.
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hERE'S WHAT SOMEONE HAD 2 SAY ABOUT 10:
He believed it was one of the more plot-filled of the installments, and would likely be one that children would want to watch many times over.
What? And take the place of beloved "Journey Through the mists", which was theone I watched over and over as a kid? :unsure:
This isn't the first time Littlefoot's been on an adventure, people. Making this movie so immense, what with the whole crater and the ecclipse and the overly sad parts at the end and the dramatic shot of every longneck in the world leaving doesn't mkae it thebest film. Cheesy animation, introducing a father who'd never been in the series before now and should never have been, and overdoing everything ruined it
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Nobody said LBT10 was the best. At least I didn't hear anyone say that.
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One thing I found incredibly interesting is Shorty. From what I heard, I was expecting something rather kind and simple. I was surprised when I found Shorty was a, dare I say it, bully.
Ok, exactly how much had you heard about Shorty? Cause from the sounds of it (you thought he'd be "kind and simple") , not much!
(And yet you still watched 10 for the 1st time knowing he existed :huh: )
Most of the analysis of LBT 10 came about as a result from discussions partly based on the fact that it is one LBT movie which is more polarizing than many others.
What do you mean by "polarizing"? Cause I bet I can come up with one that is just as much.
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hERE'S WHAT SOMEONE HAD 2 SAY ABOUT 10:
He believed it was one of the more plot-filled of the installments, and would likely be one that children would want to watch many times over.
What? And take the place of beloved "Journey Through the mists", which was theone I watched over and over as a kid? :unsure:
This isn't the first time Littlefoot's been on an adventure, people. Making this movie so immense, what with the whole crater and the ecclipse and the overly sad parts at the end and the dramatic shot of every longneck in the world leaving doesn't mkae it thebest film. Cheesy animation, introducing a father who'd never been in the series before now and should never have been, and overdoing everything ruined it
I thought it filled a hole that was in the series. Finding out what happened with Littlefoot's father and why he never was there for Littlefoot did fill in a huge hole that had been wide open since 1988.
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Well, I think the film series should have ended with 9 and that hole still being open. I prefer the days in which it was open. But with 10 it was damaged beyond repair.
There could have been all sorts of fanfics about it. I think it is a nice thing to be left open, and I bet Bluth did not like it.
9 was the end of LBT for me.
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Personally, if any movie should have been the end, I feel it was 5 because, as pointed out by another member, it could have led to the introduction of Ruby and immediately go into the TV series. Plus it would have meant hopefully changing the course of how sharpteeth were treated and not being dumbed down into toys. But then again, this might have still happened anyway.
Honestly I can see movie 9 being a TV episode. I mean, from what I recall, not a lot really happens in it. The whole plot was just getting Mo to the Big Water and that was it. This could been easily condensed into an episode or two I think. Then again I could say the same for other LBT movies as well.
Keep in mind that making the stories TV episode sized would not make them any less interesting. An example would be Avatar The Last Airbender. These episodes were about, what, 22 minutes long? And yet they can still tell a compelling story that draws you in and can leave emotional impacts, both positive and negative. If they were to do the series right, then an episode sized version of movie 9 would have been just as good as a movie version.
And on another quick note, I don't see a reason why the fate of Littlefoot's father should never have been solved. I think it was actually a good idea and I'm glad they went with the idea.
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I don't think movie 9 would have been a fitting ending to the franchise. To be perfectly honest, I thought the movie was only okay. Sure there are good things about it. "No One Has to Be Alone" is a beautiful song, Thomas Dekker I feel was at his best as Littlefoot, and Moe is a great character. Everything else just didn't feel all that special. The plot seemed like recycled parts from the first movie, and the other two songs just didn't really appeal to me at all.
Movie 10 would have been a much better end to the franchise because of Littlefoot's decision between staying in the Great Valley or leaving with his father. This is a really emotional scene because while he has longed to meet his dad his entire life, he knows his heart still lies with his friends and home. Even though he chose to stay in the valley, the whole scene reminded me a lot of the end to Lord of the Rings. Frodo leaves the Shire and his friends to set out with Gandalf and the elves. I just found it really interesting how the two were related.
I have to disagree with you about the song "Adventuring". Yes, Littlefoot has gone on many adventures where he has left the Great Valley. The thing is though, he's always left the Great Valley with his friends, in every single movie. Yes he wanders off by himself in movie 6, but before that he had left with his friends again. Movie 10 is the first and only movie where he does not leave the Great Valley with his friends ever. True, he leaves with his grandparents, but because he has shared all of the adventures with his friends it is different.
Also, this is the first time he has left the valley just for the sake of leaving. Every other time he has left the valley he has had a goal or destination in mind: To find the stolen egg (2), to find the missing water (3), to find the night flowers (4), to find a new place to live until the Great Valley is suitable to live in again (5), to find Dinah and Danah at Saurus Rock and then to find the sharptooth tooth (6), to rescue Ducky and find the Stone of Cold Fire (7), to find Ducky who went after Spike (8), to bring Moe back to the Big Water (9). What's the reason for going on the adventure in movie 10? He doesn't know where he is going and why he is leaving. He just feels like he needs to go.
Those two reasons are why this particular adventure is different from all the others.
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Hmm yes, movie 10 would have been another good place to stop, now that you put it that way. That was a huge decision to make on Littlefoot's part, to stay with his father or leave with his friends. It does have a better "conclusion" feel to it than movie 9 did.
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LBT 6: The story of the Lone Dinosaur is told in some level of detail, through the opening's story and the song "Lone Dinosaur" (most of which in the song is fiction, but that's besides the point).
Let's talk about that somewhere else...what was the point of that song?!! No one's discussed it :huh:
Also, about Mo's waterkin, they live in the ocean. Bron was not anywhere near the ocean, now was he? So he could not have gotten directions from them; he probably didn't even know where the ocean was, or if it existed or not. He probably didn't know; remember Littlefoot's reaction when they first saw the ocean? They apparently haven't seen it before.
Mr. Threehorn apparetly knew the word ocean" though
Once again, I look at what Bron was going through after he learned about his wife's death. When you lose someone you care about, you don't tend to be thinking straight; your mind is clouded. Even things that are so obvious seem to alude you. And losing a partner is one of the most devastating things that can happen. It is a life-changing experience, in a negative way.
Bron probably fell into depression, just like Littlefoot did. Perhaps Bron forgot about asking directions because of his loss and his guilt about leaving in the first place. And when you don't think about something for a long time, it can disappear from your mind, or be pushed far back into your mind. This probably happened to Bron.
Ironic you mention this: practically no one has commented on what it must have been like for Bron to lose his wife; no one really feels sorry for him ever. No one bothers to think whether he became depressed or not. I'm sure he cried then. You gotta admit that would be disturbing if he didn't, and would give me reason to make a topic complaining.
With what I heard, he got back just as "The Great Earthshake" hit. From that perspective, I can not blame Bron for not finding them, especially with the fact the nest was gone. That earthquake was HUGE! It even beats the one in LBT 9.
Really? Do we have to go comparing what was the same earthshake we'd seen in movie 1 to that poorly done piece of CGI in 9? That's like saying, "Movie 1 was GREAT! It was even better then movie 13!!"
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But why can't someone do a huge analysis of the more interesting LBT films, like 5 and 9?
And why can't you start doing them rather than demanding for others to do them for you? Most of the analysis of LBT 10 came about as a result from discussions partly based on the fact that it is one LBT movie which is more polarizing than many others.
Heck, I think I will. I don't like how this film is regarded so highly above the first 9 films, ALL of which were superior in my opinion. but I'm not gonna try to change other people's opinions. I'm just gonna show my own, and be proud of it! :smile
I have to disagree with you about the song "Adventuring". Yes, Littlefoot has gone on many adventures where he has left the Great Valley. The thing is though, he's always left the Great Valley with his friends, in every single movie. Yes he wanders off by himself in movie 6, but before that he had left with his friends again. Movie 10 is the first and only movie where he does not leave the Great Valley with his friends ever. True, he leaves with his grandparents, but because he has shared all of the adventures with his friends it is different.
Also, this is the first time he has left the valley just for the sake of leaving. Every other time he has left the valley he has had a goal or destination in mind: To find the stolen egg (2), to find the missing water (3), to find the night flowers (4), to find a new place to live until the Great Valley is suitable to live in again (5), to find Dinah and Danah at Saurus Rock and then to find the sharptooth tooth (6), to rescue Ducky and find the Stone of Cold Fire (7), to find Ducky who went after Spike (8), to bring Moe back to the Big Water (9). What's the reason for going on the adventure in movie 10? He doesn't know where he is going and why he is leaving. He just feels like he needs to go.
Those two reasons are why this particular adventure is different from all the others.
I prefere the old formula. If they were so keen on making an adventure like this they would have done it long ago. I also like it better when he goes with his friends...it's more fun then with his boring old grandparents---don't get me wrong, I adore the grandparents, but I think the advetures are more fun when he goes off on them with his friends. The fact that they switched it up to this, and didn't give Littlefoot a goal for where he needed to go, made it clear that Universal was running out of ideas and suddenly going into crazed scriptwriting.
Oh, and they had the nerve to bring Daddy-dearest into the freaking picture after all this time---all this time in which I've accepted the fact that Littlefoot is an orphan who lives with his grandparents, learned to live with it, gotten used to it, and basically become so used to things the way they are that this sudden intrusion is like the whole world turning upside down.
November 1988-November 2003: The "Littlefoot being an orphan and living with his grandparents era, the era of my childhood."
December 2003- The "Littlefoot suddenly having a dad the first 9 films never gave any indication existed and suddenly nothing is as it was before and ever will be era".
Seriousy, I've been looking at things this way! Like what albums came out in what era, etc!
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I still am not gonna go back on what I said about wanting 9 to be the end. It was special in that it had similarities to the first film, and the ending sequence felt more touching and conclusional then previous ones had. When I watch the characters go home, I feel like I'm seeing them go home for the last time. And then, of course, we see have a touching scene of them reuniting with their families, like at the end of 1, and the supposed former middle film, 5. Didn't see that in 10 anywhere. The whole sunset feel gives it a good finale feel to it. And the ending line, "This adventure was at an end. Still, Littlefoot, Cera, Ducky, Petrie and Spike knew in their hearts that there would be many more adventures...yet to come." It's a perfect ending line to the series, promising they'll have more adventures, even thoug this one, and the whole series, has finnished.
And finally, you've got the sparkles which close the screen before the credits and the credits song being a pop song instead of the usual beautiful score, which was new.
Movie 10 isn't underated or misunderstood. Someone actually thought it would be "the one kids would watch over and over" :blink:
Are they seriously trying to say this is gonna take the place of beloved "Journey Through The Mists"? I think I'm gonna be sick! :x
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Who's they you're referring to?
And what do you mean by "Are they seriously trying to say this is gonna take the place of beloved "Journey Through The Mists"?"
And why would that make you "sick"?
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Wow I haven't seen ten in a long time and I need to again. My thought's are I thought it was a alright movie. The plot wasn't that good and the story wasn't great either but I did enjoy it.
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And what do you mean by "Are they seriously trying to say this is gonna take the place of beloved "Journey Through The Mists"?"
And why would that make you "sick"?
Because 4 was the film I grew up with and I consider it underated for how good it was. The thought of 10 being the one kids would watch over and over makes me sick because I have trouble seeing myself doing that---I can't imagine myself seeing 10 as a little kid and having the joy I did seing 4.
I thought it filled a hole that was in the series. Finding out what happened with Littlefoot's father and why he never was there for Littlefoot did fill in a huge hole that had been wide open since 1988.
The time in which that hole was open made up the better part my childhood. In other words, I spent my whole childhood with the image of Littlefoot living with just his grandparents. Don't get me wrong, I wondered who his dad was. But couldn't they just leave that to fanfiction?!
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Well I don't really see a problem with that. There's nothing wrong with kids seeing movie 10 over and over again if they enjoy it. If you don't like movie 10 that much, you don't have to watch it. But just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean that it's a bad thing for kids to watch it. It's not something I feel is worth "getting sick over". There's certainly worse things kids could watch (like R rated movies).
It's best to be fair with kids. If I had to choose between showing them LBT4 or LBT10, I'd just compromise and show both. Kids have every right to see both movies if they desire to; it wouldn't be right of me to show a movie simply because I like one and hate the other (I don't hate either LBT4 nor LBT10 though).
As for LBT4 being "underrated", you said the same thing about LBT3 as well and I don't really why you feel they're underrated. I don't really see any evidence that they're underrated, nor do I see any for LBT10 being preferred by the majority over them.
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OK. I'm sorry I've overeacted.
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Well it's like I said earlier. TLBT 10 was one of those sequels that basically filled in some of the missing loop holes that were prevalent in the first movie. If there are ever more sequels or a remake of some kind I do hope they cover the missing loop holes that took place in the first movie. Like for example Spike's parents or like how did the adults managed to form some sort of bond with one another and travel together as a heard of mixed dinosaurs instead of separate species.
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Personally I always felt LBT 10 tore up a lot more loopholes than it ever filled. I consider it very unfortunate that the makers of LBT 10 obviously didn't bother at all to make it harmonize with the original movie it was refering to. For me the many implausible points I refered to early (both about the messed up references to the original movie as well as some matters making no sense within the time frame of the plot of LBT 10) really killed of a movie which I believe could have been grand if the makers had put some more effort into making it so.
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I have a motto that is I'd watch anything once if I liked it I would watch it again. And this movie was not in the category. I mean the animation was eh the story confused me a lot I didn't see how this was gonna work. There was so many holes that needed to be filled that where not filled at all. They left them wide open. I did like some parts of the movie. The song was good but didn't fit the whole movie title. And made it a bit more confusing to me. But overall I can at least say I can call it a movie even tho to me it wasn't one at all.
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Something else to consider, too:
The LBT series is Not known for its detailed or even specifically Accurate storytelling and recollections of previous events. The earlier films (1 through 4 especially) were able to keep a good level of consistancy in character and story, I thought, and I have no issues with how they were done.
LBT 4: All we know of Ali is that she is in a migrating herd who recently came from the Land of Mists. Later on, we learn that she spent all of her social life with longnecks, which adds more detail. Still, her background is quite sketchy.
LBT 6: The story of the Lone Dinosaur is told in some level of detail, through the opening's story and the song "Lone Dinosaur" (most of which in the song is fiction, but that's besides the point). Overall, the story of the Lone Dinosaur is one of the better-developed historical stories in the series, and it is Meant to be sketchy for the sake of mystery. Ironic, isn't it?
In LBT 7, there is a well-known discussion between the Gang about who crosses the vine first (when chasing after Pterano's posse). A comment is made that Cera is always at the back of the line whenever the Gang had left the Great Valley previously, yet in earlier films, we clearly see that Cera has never Once been at the back of the line when crossing any sort of gap.
Also in LBT 7, when the gang finds Ducky in the cave. The story of how ducky got there was kept extremely short (under 10 seconds). While this isn't as important of a story as Bron's, I believe this trend continues in LBT 10's Bron story.
LBT 8: Thicknose's story, told in his song. Most of the song is about the theme of never being too old to learn. A few seconds of the song tells the story of his life, but this detail is kept Very minimal. The story of where the Spiketails came from is also kept very sketchy. All we really know is they are from "The cold lands", likely on a more polar point on Earth than the Great Valley but possibly a mountainous area (though the lack of food in mountainous regions would suggest against that). Anyways, that's a different topic altogether.
LBT 9: The background of where Mo came from is kept very simple. We know nothing of his family except from what we see of how they act around him at the end. The story of how he got to the Great valley was kept very short and simple.
We need to know some of this stuff. I think it matters just as much as what was missing in LBT 10. Like Ducky's story. Couldn't she have said more?
In LBT 7, there is a well-known discussion between the Gang about who crosses the vine first (when chasing after Pterano's posse). A comment is made that Cera is always at the back of the line whenever the Gang had left the Great Valley previously, yet in earlier films, we clearly see that Cera has never Once been at the back of the line when crossing any sort of gap.
I'm gonna be makin' a topic on this! ;)
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With what I heard, he got back just as "The Great Earthshake" hit. From that perspective, I can not blame Bron for not finding them, especially with the fact the nest was gone. That earthquake was HUGE! It even beats the one in LBT 9
But isn't that the same earthshake from LBT 1?!
I'm trying to understand what you meant by being amazed by it...we'd known about the LBT 1 earthshake long before the LBT 9 one. :huh:
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I have to disagree with you about the song "Adventuring". Yes, Littlefoot has gone on many adventures where he has left the Great Valley. The thing is though, he's always left the Great Valley with his friends, in every single movie. Yes he wanders off by himself in movie 6, but before that he had left with his friends again. Movie 10 is the first and only movie where he does not leave the Great Valley with his friends ever. True, he leaves with his grandparents, but because he has shared all of the adventures with his friends it is different.
Also, this is the first time he has left the valley just for the sake of leaving. Every other time he has left the valley he has had a goal or destination in mind: To find the stolen egg (2), to find the missing water (3), to find the night flowers (4), to find a new place to live until the Great Valley is suitable to live in again (5), to find Dinah and Danah at Saurus Rock and then to find the sharptooth tooth (6), to rescue Ducky and find the Stone of Cold Fire (7), to find Ducky who went after Spike (8), to bring Moe back to the Big Water (9). What's the reason for going on the adventure in movie 10? He doesn't know where he is going and why he is leaving. He just feels like he needs to go.
Those two reasons are why this particular adventure is different from all the others.
Alright, it's just that it felt he was acting as if his previous adventures had never happened. 9 was the last movie I really saw as a kid(although I did leave the room for some parts), although I saw parts of 10. This song though feels like I'm seeing Littlefoot dismissing every adventure he's been on, several of which I'd consider superior, a few I consider inferior. Nonetheless, they were a part of the LBT I grew up with.
If they wanted to include a song like that in the first sequel, it would have been awesome. In the 10th? I don't think so.
But anyone else can. ;)
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While I see your point I don't quite agree with it. One thing we should keep in mind is that no part of the song "Adventuring" suggests that he or anyone else had not been on adventures before. In one respect the situation in LBT 10 differed somewhat from the situations in preceeding movies for here we had the first case in which Littlefoot was sort of setting out on a deliberate, planned adventure rather than being forced into it by circumstances and against the intention of his grandparents or other grownups. Even in case of "adventures" taking place in the close surroundings of the Great Valley it always took some emergency (stolen egg, missing water, lost twins) rather than mere adventuresomeness to get them on their way.
I also think that in many cases the songs stand somewhat apart from the story and are often even in conflict with the rest of the plot. "Adventuring" is an extreme example with the others declaring their firm intention that littlefoot will have to take them all allong, just for them to watch him depart without them in the very next scene without any indication of them even making the slightest attempt to accompany him. Persoanlly I like the tune of Adventuring and have more of an issue with the generally rather flimsy basis of the dreams as a basis for perilous whims of so cautious characters like Littlefoot's grandparents.
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With what I heard, he got back just as "The Great Earthshake" hit. From that perspective, I can not blame Bron for not finding them, especially with the fact the nest was gone. That earthquake was HUGE! It even beats the one in LBT 9
But isn't that the same earthshake from LBT 1?!
I'm trying to understand what you meant by being amazed by it...we'd known about the LBT 1 earthshake long before the LBT 9 one, I thought we'd already taken it for granted that it was huge. And it's not like it's the only earthshake in the series---there's one in 3, one in 5 (yeah, a tsunami sorta counts) and one in 7.
QUOTE
Something else to consider, too:
The LBT series is Not known for its detailed or even specifically Accurate storytelling and recollections of previous events. The earlier films (1 through 4 especially) were able to keep a good level of consistancy in character and story, I thought, and I have no issues with how they were done.
LBT 4: All we know of Ali is that she is in a migrating herd who recently came from the Land of Mists. Later on, we learn that she spent all of her social life with longnecks, which adds more detail. Still, her background is quite sketchy.
LBT 6: The story of the Lone Dinosaur is told in some level of detail, through the opening's story and the song "Lone Dinosaur" (most of which in the song is fiction, but that's besides the point). Overall, the story of the Lone Dinosaur is one of the better-developed historical stories in the series, and it is Meant to be sketchy for the sake of mystery. Ironic, isn't it?
In LBT 7, there is a well-known discussion between the Gang about who crosses the vine first (when chasing after Pterano's posse). A comment is made that Cera is always at the back of the line whenever the Gang had left the Great Valley previously, yet in earlier films, we clearly see that Cera has never Once been at the back of the line when crossing any sort of gap.
Also in LBT 7, when the gang finds Ducky in the cave. The story of how ducky got there was kept extremely short (under 10 seconds). While this isn't as important of a story as Bron's, I believe this trend continues in LBT 10's Bron story.
LBT 8: Thicknose's story, told in his song. Most of the song is about the theme of never being too old to learn. A few seconds of the song tells the story of his life, but this detail is kept Very minimal. The story of where the Spiketails came from is also kept very sketchy. All we really know is they are from "The cold lands", likely on a more polar point on Earth than the Great Valley but possibly a mountainous area (though the lack of food in mountainous regions would suggest against that). Anyways, that's a different topic altogether.
LBT 9: The background of where Mo came from is kept very simple. We know nothing of his family except from what we see of how they act around him at the end. The story of how he got to the Great valley was kept very short and simple.
Why aren't people upset about this stuff? I think a lot of it deserved to be explained in greater detail, like Ducky and Mo's stories. Why are we reseving LBT 10 as "the special one that needs explanation"? It shouldn't be. These were just as needed.
Once again, I look at what Bron was going through after he learned about his wife's death. When you lose someone you care about, you don't tend to be thinking straight; your mind is clouded. Even things that are so obvious seem to alude you. And losing a partner is one of the most devastating things that can happen. It is a life-changing experience, in a negative way.
Bron probably fell into depression, just like Littlefoot did. Perhaps Bron forgot about asking directions because of his loss and his guilt about leaving in the first place. And when you don't think about something for a long time, it can disappear from your mind, or be pushed far back into your mind. This probably happened to Bron.
From what I can tell Bron was apparently crappy husband because he left his preganant wife and couldn't eve couldn't even remember what color she was, apparently. And if this is true he doesn't have the right to feel grief over her death, let alone fall into a depression. Part of the reason I'm saying this is it's hard for me to picture him falling into the same depression Littlefoot fell into because...
1. He's an adult and knows how to take care of himself, not a lost kid who's now motherless.
2. He wasn't there with her when she died.
3. We've never seen him cry.
4. We never saw the relationship between him and her like we did with her and Littlefoot...at least not to that extent.
Do you think Littlefoot's grandparents fell into a depression over the possible loss of their daughter and grandson? I don't think so, otherwise they wouldn't have made it to the valley before the kids did. No one really considers how they felt upon learning about their daughter's death. Bron on the other hand is apparently coldhearted, as well, seeing as TrulyFantasticMe could see him humiliating Pterano for no reason.
I guess what I'm saying is that you're portraying Bron as more sensitive then I typically think of him, DarkHououmon. I mean, can you actually picture him crying? :huh:
One more thing.
DarkHououmon, you said this:
When you lose someone you care about, you don't tend to be thinking straight; your mind is clouded. Even things that are so obvious seem to alude you. And losing a partner is one of the most devastating things that can happen. It is a life-changing experience, in a negative way.
This was really well worded, and I'm just curious if it comes from personal expierience, or simply from watching enough movies, reading enough books, and basically knowing about people who have suffered it? If you don't want to answer that's ok. I'm just curious.
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I learned it from conversations I had with people who did suffer a loss like that, as well from stories and movies involving the same thing.
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OK. Again, not trying to get personal or anything, I just thought it sounded really well written, but I'm glad you have't suffered a loss like that. As for the people you've spoken to who have, I hope they're ok.
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Why aren't people upset about this stuff?
Most people are not eager to get upset if they don't see anything to get really upset about.
There are some matters in LBT where the sequels are in conflict with others sequels or the original movie, but not everyone is getting so worked up about them as you (no offense meant) seem to require them to be.
LBT 10 went the farthest when it comes to presenting a story that doesn't sound plausible respectively clashes with what had been established in the first movie. Therefore there may be somewhat more reaction there than for example about Ducky in LBT 7 not taking a longer time to tell her friends about the events which the audience has already seen.
What would people achieve by getting upset about this kind of stuff?
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5. Speaking of taking care, let's take a look at how much Bron cares about his herd. He says he cannot accompany Littlefoot and his grandparents to the Great Valley as he has to go back to his herd. Now that's noble, isn't it? He would so much like to come along with his son, but he will sacrifice his personal luck for the wellbeing of his herd which apparently cannot survive a day without him...
But wait a second, is not the herd supposed to be right there, at the crater where the solar eclipse occurred? All longnecks were supposed to be there!
We know that all longnecks were not there. Ali and her herd was missing and so was Doc. There must have been quite a few who either didn't have that dream or didn't get there in time. But how is it possible that Bron and a part of his herd was there, but another part wasn't? There is no doubt that not all of Bron's herd was there, as he told Littlefoot he was looking forward to introduce him to the rest of the herd. Now can you give me a reason why Bron would leave what must be a considerable part of the herd rather than leading all of them there? I have a theory and as you may expect it doesn't cast a positive light on Bron, but I beg you to give me a better reason.
It appears that Bron left behind the part of his herd that was too slow to make it to the crater in time for the solar eclipse. If he really did, doesn't that mean that he must've left the old, the weak, the too young kids etc. behind? Not the kind of herd members a good leader should leave to their fate! I just hope he left some strong longnecks behind to protect them. Bron must have something that makes other dinosaurs follow him, but he doesn't show any of the responsibility true leadership demands!
I originally thought that was where Bron and his herd lived (in the crater)...but waitaminute...where do they live? :confused
As for Ali's herd and Doc not being there, do you seriously think the producers would have the heart to satisfy us by reuniting characters from other films? I bet that as far as whoever made 10 is concerned, Ali and her herd, and well as Doc, do not exist.
Oh yes, and then there was this I'd like to discuss:
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Once again, I look at what Bron was going through after he learned about his wife's death. When you lose someone you care about, you don't tend to be thinking straight; your mind is clouded. Even things that are so obvious seem to alude you. And losing a partner is one of the most devastating things that can happen. It is a life-changing experience, in a negative way.
Bron probably fell into depression, just like Littlefoot did. Perhaps Bron forgot about asking directions because of his loss and his guilt about leaving in the first place. And when you don't think about something for a long time, it can disappear from your mind, or be pushed far back into your mind. This probably happened to Bron.
From what I can tell Bron was apparently crappy husband because he left his preganant wife and couldn't eve couldn't even remember what color she was, apparently. And if this is true he doesn't have the right to feel grief over her death, let alone fall into a depression. Part of the reason I'm saying this is it's hard for me to picture him falling into the same depression Littlefoot fell into because...
1. He's an adult and knows how to take care of himself, not a lost kid who's now motherless.
2. He wasn't there with her when she died.
3. We've never seen him cry.
4. We never saw the relationship between him and her like we did with her and Littlefoot...at least not to that extent.
Do you think Littlefoot's grandparents fell into a depression over the possible loss of their daughter and grandson? I don't think so, otherwise they wouldn't have made it to the valley before the kids did. No one really considers how they felt upon learning about their daughter's death. Bron on the other hand is apparently coldhearted, as well, seeing as TrulyFantasticMe could see him humiliating Pterano for no reason.
I guess what I'm saying is that you're portraying Bron as more sensitive then I typically think of him, DarkHououmon. I mean, can you actually picture him crying?
Anyways, I still think all the things that weren't explained should have been; not just the ones in 10. Never mnd that they aren't important---not caring that some things don't get explained in other movies while bashing 10 for not explaining things is wrong, I think.
I still don't understand this:
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With what I heard, he got back just as "The Great Earthshake" hit. From that perspective, I can not blame Bron for not finding them, especially with the fact the nest was gone. That earthquake was HUGE! It even beats the one in LBT 9
But isn't that the same earthshake from LBT 1?!
I'm trying to understand what you meant by being amazed by it...we'd known about the LBT 1 earthshake long before the LBT 9 one, I thought we'd already taken it for granted that it was huge. And it's not like it's the only earthshake in the series---there's one in 3, one in 5 (yeah, a tsunami sorta counts) and one in 7.
Honestly, by giving Littlefoot a dad it killed the LBT I'd known.
I thought it filled a hole that was in the series. Finding out what happened with Littlefoot's father and why he never was there for Littlefoot did fill in a huge hole that had been wide open since 1988.
I just want to say, while I initially was curious about what happened to his dad, that hole was open for so long---from November of 1988, throughout the 90's, to December of 2003---that it was simply too long for it to suddenly be closed. I think it was so much better off closed, left to fanfiction, and 9 being made the end.
By the way, why do people feel 10 would have made a good end if Littlefoot chooses to go back to the valley?
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I don't agree that it was too long for it to be closed. Just because something has been open for so long doesn't mean that it's too late to be closed. I also like the idea of giving Littlefoot a father. There's really nothing wrong with that; it doesn't "kill" LBT in any way. I don't see why you're so bothered by it. Just let it go. They gave Littlefoot a father in LBT10. Nothing you say can change that.
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I'm not gonna let it go; it's something that forever changed LBT in a huge way and it can't be changed back. I'm not willing to accept that after all that the series had been through---in other words, LBT 1-9. :cry
Was it really necessary to give Littlefoot a father? Couldn't they just leave it up to fanfiction?!! Was I the only one who with not just ok, but HAPPIER when he didn't have a dad?! Am I the only 1 that feels this way?!!!
And would someone please be so kind as to respond to the other things I talked about? I keep posting them, because I want to discuss them.
Oh, and also, 10 sucked cause they had to give Grandma one last crying scene. Which made me mad cause her last crying scene had been years ago and I thought that was over.
Seriously, on December 2, 2003, Littlefoot was revealed to have a father and a part of my childhood must have perished then, even though I didn't know about it at the time. Something that had been kept a secret from the world since November 18, 1988---15 years, and 2 weeks---and which should have stayed a secret. Fifteen years and 2 weeks from when it was released it will be December 17, 2018, and hopefully by then the movie will be out of print,all evidence online will have been discarded, and everybody will have forgotten such a character existed.
Hopefully the same will stand true for 11-13 and the tv series. :)
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And would someone please be so kind as to respond to the other things I talked about? I keep posting them, because I want to discuss them.
I'm not gonna let it go; it's something that forever changed LBT in a huge way and it can't be changed back. I'm not willing to accept that after all that the series had been through---in other words, LBT 1-9.
Was I the only one who with not just ok, but HAPPIER when he didn't have a dad?! Am I the only 1 that feels this way?!!!
Sorry Bruton, but this sequence of quotes of yours all posted in the same post provoke some questions which you might want to consider.
You express your anger about not being responded to in a thread where there are responses from other people. In any case, responses are something one can receive, but not sue for in an internet forum. In fact it may discourage people from giving any responses if they feel they are being "ordered" to give them and if they feel it doesn't really matter what they say, which brings us to the second point.
You are saying that you are not willing to accept LBT 10 and are not going to let it go... so... what exactly is anyone supposed to respond to such a statement to begin with? What do you think you are going to achieve or what are others supposed to achieve by "not accepting" a movie that just happens to exist whether we like it or not?
And finally, it is extremely discouraging for anyone to respond to someone who very obviously isn't reading or minding what has been written before. This thread is full of discussion and criticism of LBT 10 which make it very, very clear that there are quite a few people not happy with LBT 10. I guess I am kind of notorious for my criticism of the movie which I expressed in no uncertain terms here. However, the movie exists and nothing in the world can change that. We can discuss what we dislike and why we do, we can discuss alternative plots or what if scenarios, we can discuss if there would be any ways in which the plot of LBT 10 could have been modified to work out... all of that can be discussed if there is sufficient interest in it for people to discuss it on their own accord rather than being forced into it. But frankly, your statements don't leave much room for any discussion of any sort at all.
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Bruton, there's no reason why you can't just let it go. This isn't the same as saying "You must like what they did to LBT10"; it's saying "Okay you don't like LBT10, that's fine. But don't obsess over it and act like it's ruined LBT altogether for you."
Really, you not letting go sounds rather childish to me. No offense, but that's how it looks like to me. You complaining about LBT10 fruitlessly is not very mentally healthy. You will accomplish nothing by continuing to hold on to the things you don't like about LBT10. Trust me, you'll feel better when you finally let go of that and stop obsessing over it.
And also, you not accepting anything past LBT9 does not make 11, 10, 12, and 13 not canon anymore. They exist and they are part of the LBT universe whether you like it or not. You can keep believing that LBT ended with LBT9, but the truth is it continued for a couple more sequels and then a TV series. This is fact and you believing LBT9 should have been the end will not change it.
Nothing will come out of continuing to obsess over what LBT10 did that you didn't like. It will not change history. It will not change the way the movie was made. The studios are not going to see your posts and feel bad for you and erase the original LBT10 from the franchise to recreate it in your image. All it will do is make you feel worse.
So do yourself a favor and let it go.
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Well, LBT 11 was even worse, in my opiion, and from what I heard 13 was the nastiest of the bunch, and 12 wasn't that great either. But I want to discuss the things I brought up.
5. Speaking of taking care, let's take a look at how much Bron cares about his herd. He says he cannot accompany Littlefoot and his grandparents to the Great Valley as he has to go back to his herd. Now that's noble, isn't it? He would so much like to come along with his son, but he will sacrifice his personal luck for the wellbeing of his herd which apparently cannot survive a day without him...
But wait a second, is not the herd supposed to be right there, at the crater where the solar eclipse occurred? All longnecks were supposed to be there!
We know that all longnecks were not there. Ali and her herd was missing and so was Doc. There must have been quite a few who either didn't have that dream or didn't get there in time. But how is it possible that Bron and a part of his herd was there, but another part wasn't? There is no doubt that not all of Bron's herd was there, as he told Littlefoot he was looking forward to introduce him to the rest of the herd. Now can you give me a reason why Bron would leave what must be a considerable part of the herd rather than leading all of them there? I have a theory and as you may expect it doesn't cast a positive light on Bron, but I beg you to give me a better reason.
It appears that Bron left behind the part of his herd that was too slow to make it to the crater in time for the solar eclipse. If he really did, doesn't that mean that he must've left the old, the weak, the too young kids etc. behind? Not the kind of herd members a good leader should leave to their fate! I just hope he left some strong longnecks behind to protect them. Bron must have something that makes other dinosaurs follow him, but he doesn't show any of the responsibility true leadership demands!
I originally thought that was where Bron and his herd lived (in the crater)...but waitaminute...where do they live? :confused
As for Ali's herd and Doc not being there, do you seriously think the producers would have the heart to satisfy us by reuniting characters from other films? I bet that as far as whoever made 10 is concerned, Ali and her herd, and well as Doc, do not exist.
Oh, and also, 10 sucked cause they had to give Grandma one last crying scene. Which made me mad cause her last crying scene had been years ago and I thought that was over.
LBT 10: One of the most major, important backstories in the entire series is told in a matter of a couple of minutes, which is certainly possible if the most Relavent information is given to the audience.
Tons of people are bothered by this, but apparently no one except me is bothered by this:
QUOTE
Something else to consider, too:
The LBT series is Not known for its detailed or even specifically Accurate storytelling and recollections of previous events. The earlier films (1 through 4 especially) were able to keep a good level of consistancy in character and story, I thought, and I have no issues with how they were done.
LBT 4: All we know of Ali is that she is in a migrating herd who recently came from the Land of Mists. Later on, we learn that she spent all of her social life with longnecks, which adds more detail. Still, her background is quite sketchy.
LBT 6: The story of the Lone Dinosaur is told in some level of detail, through the opening's story and the song "Lone Dinosaur" (most of which in the song is fiction, but that's besides the point). Overall, the story of the Lone Dinosaur is one of the better-developed historical stories in the series, and it is Meant to be sketchy for the sake of mystery. Ironic, isn't it?
In LBT 7, there is a well-known discussion between the Gang about who crosses the vine first (when chasing after Pterano's posse). A comment is made that Cera is always at the back of the line whenever the Gang had left the Great Valley previously, yet in earlier films, we clearly see that Cera has never Once been at the back of the line when crossing any sort of gap.
Also in LBT 7, when the gang finds Ducky in the cave. The story of how ducky got there was kept extremely short (under 10 seconds). While this isn't as important of a story as Bron's, I believe this trend continues in LBT 10's Bron story.
LBT 8: Thicknose's story, told in his song. Most of the song is about the theme of never being too old to learn. A few seconds of the song tells the story of his life, but this detail is kept Very minimal. The story of where the Spiketails came from is also kept very sketchy. All we really know is they are from "The cold lands", likely on a more polar point on Earth than the Great Valley but possibly a mountainous area (though the lack of food in mountainous regions would suggest against that). Anyways, that's a different topic altogether.
LBT 9: The background of where Mo came from is kept very simple. We know nothing of his family except from what we see of how they act around him at the end. The story of how he got to the Great valley was kept very short and simple.
As I said before, I am very unimpressed that people bash 10 for leaving out stuff yet are fine with this stuff. I am particularly upset about the last one! Couldn't they have told us more of how Mo got to the great valley? Coudn't they tell us more about his family? All of this stuff listed above matters as much, if not more, then what was missing in the 10th movie, I believe.
I am very angry about being restricted from hearing this stuff; I didn't really think about it till I read Action9000's above post, but now I can't stop.
QUOTE
With what I heard, he got back just as "The Great Earthshake" hit. From that perspective, I can not blame Bron for not finding them, especially with the fact the nest was gone. That earthquake was HUGE! It even beats the one in LBT 9
But isn't that the same earthshake from LBT 1?!
Ok, someone please clairfy if the one we saw in 10 was the same one in LBT 1, cause I don't understand why he would be so hyped up about something we saw years ago and which came before LBT 9.
Once again, I look at what Bron was going through after he learned about his wife's death. When you lose someone you care about, you don't tend to be thinking straight; your mind is clouded. Even things that are so obvious seem to alude you. And losing a partner is one of the most devastating things that can happen. It is a life-changing experience, in a negative way.
Bron probably fell into depression, just like Littlefoot did. Perhaps Bron forgot about asking directions because of his loss and his guilt about leaving in the first place. And when you don't think about something for a long time, it can disappear from your mind, or be pushed far back into your mind. This probably happened to Bron.
You're saying this about someone who has the emotional range of a teaspoon. I can't see him becoming depressed like Littlefoot for the reasons I gaveearlier. I already explained this so much that I'm not gonna again. If you wanna check what Isaid before, go back and look at my previous posts.
I thought it filled a hole that was in the series. Finding out what happened with Littlefoot's father and why he never was there for Littlefoot did fill in a huge hole that had been wide open since 1988.
I was so much happier when that hole was open. I eve look at that as a (NASTY) history chaging landmark, even looking back on all that came before it---like music. For example, Vanessa Carlon's "Be not nobody" came out before it, but all other albums have since come out on the other side.
Couldn't they have just done fanfiction about this?
And am I the only one that thinks 9 would have made the perfect finale ( before 10 destroyed the series, and 11 went even further by putting in the crying fireworks at the end, and so on)?
Oh, and did they really have to give the Grandma a crying scene when it had been years since she'd last cried and I thought she was ok?
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Oh, and what else upsets me about 10? All of the above!
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I'm sorry, but these things anger me, and I would like some explanation for them.
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Or you could just stop obsessing over them. Yes you can dislike them, but there's no sense in obsessing over them like that. You act as if people here know what the studios were thinking with every decision made in LBT, and frankly we don't. You won't get an explanation for everything LBT, so you'll just have to live with that.
Sorry, but not everything in LBT can be explained because we don't know the thoughts and ideas and all else that went into making the LBT movies. We weren't part of the studios so we can't be sure of what they were thinking.
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I want to discuss the things I've talked about though, so can we please get down to talking about them?
Alright, number one...
5. Speaking of taking care, let's take a look at how much Bron cares about his herd. He says he cannot accompany Littlefoot and his grandparents to the Great Valley as he has to go back to his herd. Now that's noble, isn't it? He would so much like to come along with his son, but he will sacrifice his personal luck for the wellbeing of his herd which apparently cannot survive a day without him...
But wait a second, is not the herd supposed to be right there, at the crater where the solar eclipse occurred? All longnecks were supposed to be there!
We know that all longnecks were not there. Ali and her herd was missing and so was Doc. There must have been quite a few who either didn't have that dream or didn't get there in time. But how is it possible that Bron and a part of his herd was there, but another part wasn't? There is no doubt that not all of Bron's herd was there, as he told Littlefoot he was looking forward to introduce him to the rest of the herd. Now can you give me a reason why Bron would leave what must be a considerable part of the herd rather than leading all of them there? I have a theory and as you may expect it doesn't cast a positive light on Bron, but I beg you to give me a better reason.
It appears that Bron left behind the part of his herd that was too slow to make it to the crater in time for the solar eclipse. If he really did, doesn't that mean that he must've left the old, the weak, the too young kids etc. behind? Not the kind of herd members a good leader should leave to their fate! I just hope he left some strong longnecks behind to protect them. Bron must have something that makes other dinosaurs follow him, but he doesn't show any of the responsibility true leadership demands!
I originally thought that was where Bron and his herd lived (in the crater)...but waitaminute...where do they live?
Does anyone have any guesses?
As for Ali's herd and Doc not being there, do you seriously think the producers would have the heart to satisfy us by reuniting characters from other films? I bet that as far as whoever made 10 is concerned, Ali and her herd, and well as Doc, do not exist.
Number 2...
QUOTE
LBT 10: One of the most major, important backstories in the entire series is told in a matter of a couple of minutes, which is certainly possible if the most Relavent information is given to the audience.
Tons of people are bothered by this, but apparently no one except me is bothered by this:
QUOTE
QUOTE
Something else to consider, too:
The LBT series is Not known for its detailed or even specifically Accurate storytelling and recollections of previous events. The earlier films (1 through 4 especially) were able to keep a good level of consistancy in character and story, I thought, and I have no issues with how they were done.
LBT 4: All we know of Ali is that she is in a migrating herd who recently came from the Land of Mists. Later on, we learn that she spent all of her social life with longnecks, which adds more detail. Still, her background is quite sketchy.
LBT 6: The story of the Lone Dinosaur is told in some level of detail, through the opening's story and the song "Lone Dinosaur" (most of which in the song is fiction, but that's besides the point). Overall, the story of the Lone Dinosaur is one of the better-developed historical stories in the series, and it is Meant to be sketchy for the sake of mystery. Ironic, isn't it?
In LBT 7, there is a well-known discussion between the Gang about who crosses the vine first (when chasing after Pterano's posse). A comment is made that Cera is always at the back of the line whenever the Gang had left the Great Valley previously, yet in earlier films, we clearly see that Cera has never Once been at the back of the line when crossing any sort of gap.
Also in LBT 7, when the gang finds Ducky in the cave. The story of how ducky got there was kept extremely short (under 10 seconds). While this isn't as important of a story as Bron's, I believe this trend continues in LBT 10's Bron story.
LBT 8: Thicknose's story, told in his song. Most of the song is about the theme of never being too old to learn. A few seconds of the song tells the story of his life, but this detail is kept Very minimal. The story of where the Spiketails came from is also kept very sketchy. All we really know is they are from "The cold lands", likely on a more polar point on Earth than the Great Valley but possibly a mountainous area (though the lack of food in mountainous regions would suggest against that). Anyways, that's a different topic altogether.
LBT 9: The background of where Mo came from is kept very simple. We know nothing of his family except from what we see of how they act around him at the end. The story of how he got to the Great valley was kept very short and simple.
As I said before, I am very unimpressed that people bash 10 for leaving out stuff yet are fine with this stuff. I am particularly upset about the last one! Couldn't they have told us more of how Mo got to the great valley? Coudn't they tell us more about his family? All of this stuff listed above matters as much, if not more, then what was missing in the 10th movie, I believe.
I am very angry about being restricted from hearing this stuff; I didn't really think about it till I read Action9000's above post, but now I can't stop.
Action9000 was taking the omission of things not being explained in 10 angrily, but was just going with everything else, liek the omission of Mo's story of how he got to the great valley. Am I the only one who thinks the other stuff that wasn't explained mattered, and just as much as what was missing in 10, if not more?
Number 3...
QUOTE
QUOTE
With what I heard, he got back just as "The Great Earthshake" hit. From that perspective, I can not blame Bron for not finding them, especially with the fact the nest was gone. That earthquake was HUGE! It even beats the one in LBT 9
Yeah...I bet you think it beats the one in LBT 1, too...oh waitaminute...isn't it the one from LBT 1? Then why are you acting so surprised, and amazed, and comparing it to something from the lighter, softer sequels?!
Number 4...
QUOTE
Once again, I look at what Bron was going through after he learned about his wife's death. When you lose someone you care about, you don't tend to be thinking straight; your mind is clouded. Even things that are so obvious seem to alude you. And losing a partner is one of the most devastating things that can happen. It is a life-changing experience, in a negative way.
Bron probably fell into depression, just like Littlefoot did. Perhaps Bron forgot about asking directions because of his loss and his guilt about leaving in the first place. And when you don't think about something for a long time, it can disappear from your mind, or be pushed far back into your mind. This probably happened to Bron.
I'm sorry, Darkhououmon, but I'm still bothered by this.
Bron is not the "broken bird" Littlefoot is; he didn't see his wife die; he has never shown to be really capable of grief. I'm sure he would have been devastated, but you're acting like he would have suffered a carbon copy of what Littlefoot did. I doubt it. He never cries, was not a lost little kid, and he has a heart of stone.
It's far more likely the grandparents were more emotional.
I mean, can you see Bron rolling around in footprints and crying his eyes out?
Darkhououmon, do you think he would have cried?
I thought it filled a hole that was in the series. Finding out what happened with Littlefoot's father and why he never was there for Littlefoot did fill in a huge hole that had been wide open since 1988.
I was so much happier when that hole was open. I look at that as a NASTY history chaging landmark. I'll look back on all that came before Decmeber 2003---like music. For example, Vanessa Carlon's "Be not nobody" came out before it, but all other albums have since come out on the other side. Or books---the first five Harry Potter books came out before it, but the last 2 came out on the other side.
A part of my childhood died on that day in December in 2003, even though I didn't know it.
Is it ok that I think this way? Do other people?
Oh, and finally....towards the very end of the movie, after the (positive, not as sad as people make of it) "Bestest Friends", Grandma and Grandpa look at each other and smile...and Grandma cries! and about a mintue later Grandpa nuzzles Littlefoot sadly...and Grandma does too and is crying!
Who was as angry at that as I was? Grandma was weepy in the earlier films, but she had gone four....freakin...filmswithout doing so by now, and by crying she suddenly destroyed everything we'd seen of her for the past 5 films! Imagine Britney Spears suddenly got better and recorded great music for a decade...and then suddenly nosedived again?
Yeah, I know I'm overplaying it, but come on! Grandma had gone so long without crying!
Why, oh why, couldn't movie 9 have been the end? I'm just gonna hoping against hope that 10-13 and the tv series was just entirely the nightmare Littlefoot started to have at the beginning of 10 and if they make another movie he'll wake up from it.
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Oh, and according to my dad, he thinks the reason they gave Littlefoot a dad was cause they were running out of things to say. If that was the case they should have just stopped already.
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I don't think so. Again, it's never too late to introduce a new idea. There was no reason to drop the concept of a father. It's Universal's decision; not yours. Your opinion is not the absolute truth of what can and can't be done. In other words, just because you don't like an idea, just because you think ideas should be dropped if enough time passes, that doesn't mean that nobody is allowed to use those particular ideas. You don't have the authority to decide what should and shouldn't have been in LBT.
It's Universal's movie and they had every right to do what they wanted with the movie. They wanted to introduce a father to do something different. Nothing you say will change that. So stop obsessing over it. It adds nothing to this topic.
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My post above it does, though.
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I'm still wanting to discuss the stuff I mentioned above the post Darkhououmon responded to. What do you think of the points I made?
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We know Littlefoot's grandparents from nine previous land before time movies (okay, make that eight as they didn't really play an active part in the original movie).
But they did appear in the original...just not very much, and without any speaking roles, even though someone else is credited as voicing Grandpa Longneck.
Why did they do this? Probably to focus more on the relationship between Littlefoot and his mother, which I thought was handled brilliantly. ;) Still, would it have hurt to have them talk to Littlefoot at the end?
I'm just saying, though, Malte, we have known them since 1. They just weren't properly introduced until 2. Like how Cera's dad wasn't properly introduced until 3, Petrie's mom wasn't properly introduced until 7, and Ducky and Spike's mom wasn't properly introduced until 8.
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I want to discuss the things I've talked about though, so can we please get down to talking about them?
Alright, number one...
QUOTE
5. Speaking of taking care, let's take a look at how much Bron cares about his herd. He says he cannot accompany Littlefoot and his grandparents to the Great Valley as he has to go back to his herd. Now that's noble, isn't it? He would so much like to come along with his son, but he will sacrifice his personal luck for the wellbeing of his herd which apparently cannot survive a day without him...
But wait a second, is not the herd supposed to be right there, at the crater where the solar eclipse occurred? All longnecks were supposed to be there!
We know that all longnecks were not there. Ali and her herd was missing and so was Doc. There must have been quite a few who either didn't have that dream or didn't get there in time. But how is it possible that Bron and a part of his herd was there, but another part wasn't? There is no doubt that not all of Bron's herd was there, as he told Littlefoot he was looking forward to introduce him to the rest of the herd. Now can you give me a reason why Bron would leave what must be a considerable part of the herd rather than leading all of them there? I have a theory and as you may expect it doesn't cast a positive light on Bron, but I beg you to give me a better reason.
It appears that Bron left behind the part of his herd that was too slow to make it to the crater in time for the solar eclipse. If he really did, doesn't that mean that he must've left the old, the weak, the too young kids etc. behind? Not the kind of herd members a good leader should leave to their fate! I just hope he left some strong longnecks behind to protect them. Bron must have something that makes other dinosaurs follow him, but he doesn't show any of the responsibility true leadership demands!
I originally thought that was where Bron and his herd lived (in the crater)...but waitaminute...where do they live?
Does anyone have any guesses?
As for Ali's herd and Doc not being there, do you seriously think the producers would have the heart to satisfy us by reuniting characters from other films? I bet that as far as whoever made 10 is concerned, Ali and her herd, and well as Doc, do not exist.
Number 2...
QUOTE
QUOTE
LBT 10: One of the most major, important backstories in the entire series is told in a matter of a couple of minutes, which is certainly possible if the most Relavent information is given to the audience.
Tons of people are bothered by this, but apparently no one except me is bothered by this:
QUOTE
QUOTE
Something else to consider, too:
The LBT series is Not known for its detailed or even specifically Accurate storytelling and recollections of previous events. The earlier films (1 through 4 especially) were able to keep a good level of consistancy in character and story, I thought, and I have no issues with how they were done.
LBT 4: All we know of Ali is that she is in a migrating herd who recently came from the Land of Mists. Later on, we learn that she spent all of her social life with longnecks, which adds more detail. Still, her background is quite sketchy.
LBT 6: The story of the Lone Dinosaur is told in some level of detail, through the opening's story and the song "Lone Dinosaur" (most of which in the song is fiction, but that's besides the point). Overall, the story of the Lone Dinosaur is one of the better-developed historical stories in the series, and it is Meant to be sketchy for the sake of mystery. Ironic, isn't it?
In LBT 7, there is a well-known discussion between the Gang about who crosses the vine first (when chasing after Pterano's posse). A comment is made that Cera is always at the back of the line whenever the Gang had left the Great Valley previously, yet in earlier films, we clearly see that Cera has never Once been at the back of the line when crossing any sort of gap.
Also in LBT 7, when the gang finds Ducky in the cave. The story of how ducky got there was kept extremely short (under 10 seconds). While this isn't as important of a story as Bron's, I believe this trend continues in LBT 10's Bron story.
LBT 8: Thicknose's story, told in his song. Most of the song is about the theme of never being too old to learn. A few seconds of the song tells the story of his life, but this detail is kept Very minimal. The story of where the Spiketails came from is also kept very sketchy. All we really know is they are from "The cold lands", likely on a more polar point on Earth than the Great Valley but possibly a mountainous area (though the lack of food in mountainous regions would suggest against that). Anyways, that's a different topic altogether.
LBT 9: The background of where Mo came from is kept very simple. We know nothing of his family except from what we see of how they act around him at the end. The story of how he got to the Great valley was kept very short and simple.
As I said before, I am very unimpressed that people bash 10 for leaving out stuff yet are fine with this stuff. I am particularly upset about the last one! Couldn't they have told us more of how Mo got to the great valley? Coudn't they tell us more about his family? All of this stuff listed above matters as much, if not more, then what was missing in the 10th movie, I believe.
I am very angry about being restricted from hearing this stuff; I didn't really think about it till I read Action9000's above post, but now I can't stop.
Action9000 was taking the omission of things not being explained in 10 angrily, but was just going with everything else, liek the omission of Mo's story of how he got to the great valley. Am I the only one who thinks the other stuff that wasn't explained mattered, and just as much as what was missing in 10, if not more?
Number 3...
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE
With what I heard, he got back just as "The Great Earthshake" hit. From that perspective, I can not blame Bron for not finding them, especially with the fact the nest was gone. That earthquake was HUGE! It even beats the one in LBT 9
Yeah...I bet you think it beats the one in LBT 1, too...oh waitaminute...isn't it the one from LBT 1? Then why are you acting so surprised, and amazed, and comparing it to something from the lighter, softer sequels?!
Number 4...
QUOTE
QUOTE
Once again, I look at what Bron was going through after he learned about his wife's death. When you lose someone you care about, you don't tend to be thinking straight; your mind is clouded. Even things that are so obvious seem to alude you. And losing a partner is one of the most devastating things that can happen. It is a life-changing experience, in a negative way.
Bron probably fell into depression, just like Littlefoot did. Perhaps Bron forgot about asking directions because of his loss and his guilt about leaving in the first place. And when you don't think about something for a long time, it can disappear from your mind, or be pushed far back into your mind. This probably happened to Bron.
I'm sorry, Darkhououmon, but I'm still bothered by this.
Bron is not the "broken bird" Littlefoot is; he didn't see his wife die; he has never shown to be really capable of grief. I'm sure he would have been devastated, but you're acting like he would have suffered a carbon copy of what Littlefoot did. I doubt it. He never cries, was not a lost little kid, and he has a heart of stone.
It's far more likely the grandparents were more emotional.
I mean, can you see Bron rolling around in footprints and crying his eyes out?
Darkhououmon, do you think he would have cried?
QUOTE
I thought it filled a hole that was in the series. Finding out what happened with Littlefoot's father and why he never was there for Littlefoot did fill in a huge hole that had been wide open since 1988.
I was so much happier when that hole was open. I look at that as a NASTY history chaging landmark. I'll look back on all that came before Decmeber 2003---like music. For example, Vanessa Carlon's "Be not nobody" came out before it, but all other albums have since come out on the other side. Or books---the first five Harry Potter books came out before it, but the last 2 came out on the other side.
A part of my childhood died on that day in December in 2003, even though I didn't know it.
Is it ok that I think this way? Do other people?
Oh, and finally....towards the very end of the movie, after the (positive, not as sad as people make of it) "Bestest Friends", Grandma and Grandpa look at each other and smile...and Grandma cries! and about a mintue later Grandpa nuzzles Littlefoot sadly...and Grandma does too and is crying!
Who was as angry at that as I was? Grandma was weepy in the earlier films, but she had gone four....freakin...filmswithout doing so by now, and by crying she suddenly destroyed everything we'd seen of her for the past 5 films! Imagine Britney Spears suddenly got better and recorded great music for a decade...and then suddenly nosedived again?
Yeah, I know I'm overplaying it, but come on! Grandma had gone so long without crying!
Why, oh why, couldn't movie 9 have been the end? I'm just gonna hoping against hope that 10-13 and the tv series was just entirely the nightmare Littlefoot started to have at the beginning of 10 and if they make another movie he'll wake up from it.
It still all bothers me. :(
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LBT 9: The background of where Mo came from is kept very simple. We know nothing of his family except from what we see of how they act around him at the end. The story of how he got to the Great valley was kept very short and simple.
:cry Boo-hoo. I love Mo. Why leave out stuff about him?
Once again, I look at what Bron was going through after he learned about his wife's death. When you lose someone you care about, you don't tend to be thinking straight; your mind is clouded. Even things that are so obvious seem to alude you. And losing a partner is one of the most devastating things that can happen. It is a life-changing experience, in a negative way.
Bron probably fell into depression, just like Littlefoot did. Perhaps Bron forgot about asking directions because of his loss and his guilt about leaving in the first place. And when you don't think about something for a long time, it can disappear from your mind, or be pushed far back into your mind. This probably happened to Bron.
Bron is not an emotional character. I'm pretty sure he would have just been a little sad and accepted it. Grandma Longneck, her own mother, would probably be more emtional.
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IDK, I really don't want to start anything, but I liked Bron from the minute he appeared. He really looked like a leader, the way he spoke and the way he carried himself, especially.
I don't really see any problem with his story - sure, the place where Littlefoot's mum nested was lush, but things were drying out - heck, we only see him eat ONCE, and it's that blasted bunch of twigs. So it was only natural for the head of the family to protect his family and go looking for a better place.
I believe he genuinely showed remorse at not being there when everything happened to littlefoot, but he did seem anxious to get to know the son he never had, which is an admirable step.
Just my thoughts.
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Being one of the most notorious critics of the land before time 10 I reckon it is for me to give some answers on your questions.
I don't see where Bron's story doesn't make sense. Give me where it doesn't make sense, and I bet I can show you how it does. (Understand though, it's a little complex and not that simple to understand.)
1. To explain all the discrepancies of Bron's story, we need to remember the original movie. The story he is telling must have begun shortly before the beginning of the original land before time movie.
Yet where were Bron and Littlefoot's mother (whom they didn't bother to give so much as the same color she had in the original movie) in a lush, green, Great Valley like landscape. The landscape they showed was just a perfect nesting place for Bron and his wife. There was no point for him to leave his pregnant wife to look for a better place. They had a really good place already!
2. The way Bron tells the story it appears that almost the moment he left the world turned upside down and changed into the desolate wasteland we know from the original movie. This is highly unlikely and doesn't seem at all the way the situation is described in the original movie. Even if it was a sudden change from paradise to wasteland, would not a responsible Bron have returned immediately to find his wife and unborn hatchling? According to his tale he did, but if this was true, how come he didn't find them? First of all, if there was such a sudden change of situation I reckon Littlefoot's mother would have waited for Bron as long as possible, as she and her parents (the way the contact between Bron and Littlefoot's grandparents is shown we can take it for granted they are not Bron's parents) knew he was going to return as soon as he could (if he ever meant to return). Even if lack of food forced them to move on after all (Bron must have been really far away indeed not to be back by that time) it would have been easy enough for Bron to follow the fresh trail of three grownup longnecks (As Cera pointed out in LBT 10 they leave clear tracks) who certainly tried to leave a clear trail for Bron to follow. There is absolutely no justification why Bron didn't return to his wife right away!
3. So even if we assume that, in his overeagerness to find even better a nesting place for his dear wife, Bron had wandered so far off that he couldn't possibly be back in time to pick up the trail and reunite with his wife his eagerness to find Littlefoot may be doubted for the points I'm going to explain.
The existence of the Great Valley was obviously not a secret. Littlefoot told Ducky in the original movie that his mother had told him that all herds were heading there. Yet Bron, despite the fact he claims to have done everything to find his son (even after learning about the death of his wife) apparently didn't think to look at the most logical place. Was he the only one who never ever heard about the Great Valley? Even if nobody ever told him it is interesting to recall how Littlefoot's mother knew about the Great Valley "Some things you see with your eyes! Others you see with your heard!" Apparently Bron's heart never told him anything, a point I won't argue as I doubt so cold a heart as his would talk.
However, there is no justification for Bron never ever to search for his son at the place that was obviously the most logical destination for him to go!
4. I can hear the enraged shouts. How dare I calling this gentle longneck and great leader cold-heartet?
I'll lay it out to you. We are all very fond of him for taking care of Shorty and all the poor defenseless longneck kids he found when he was allegedly looking for his son. But he doesn't! Just take a look at that flashback. He checks whether his son is among the kids, finds he isn't, and moves on. Bron doesn't even open his mouth. No word of encouragement, no question if they know anything about the whereabouts of his son, and least of all an invitation to the kids to come along with him. He didn't decide to take care of the kids. They just followed him, knowing it would be safer for them and Bron apparently didn't mind. He did not offer his protection to them, they just took it.
Shorty in particular is a good example for Bron's indifference. You think Shorty (a character by the way whom I consider one of the positive points about LBT 10) would have ever turned into a bully if Bron had cared about him beyond saving him from being killed so long he stayed close enough? Throughout the whole movie the only scene in which Bron shows direct kindness to Shorty is when during the herd's departure he takes him onto his head. Shorty might have considered Bron a father, but Bron did not consider him a son. Just listen to what he told Littlefoot. All the others found parents, but not Shorty. I really pity Shorty. Bron seems to be more like a leader than a parent to him. It is not for kindness that Bron took care of anyone!
5. Speaking of taking care, let's take a look at how much Bron cares about his herd. He says he cannot accompany Littlefoot and his grandparents to the Great Valley as he has to go back to his herd. Now that's noble, isn't it? He would so much like to come along with his son, but he will sacrifice his personal luck for the wellbeing of his herd which apparently cannot survive a day without him...
But wait a second, is not the herd supposed to be right there, at the crater where the solar eclipse occurred? All longnecks were supposed to be there!
We know that all longnecks were not there. Ali and her herd was missing and so was Doc. There must have been quite a few who either didn't have that dream or didn't get there in time. But how is it possible that Bron and a part of his herd was there, but another part wasn't? There is no doubt that not all of Bron's herd was there, as he told Littlefoot he was looking forward to introduce him to the rest of the herd. Now can you give me a reason why Bron would leave what must be a considerable part of the herd rather than leading all of them there? I have a theory and as you may expect it doesn't cast a positive light on Bron, but I beg you to give me a better reason.
It appears that Bron left behind the part of his herd that was too slow to make it to the crater in time for the solar eclipse. If he really did, doesn't that mean that he must've left the old, the weak, the too young kids etc. behind? Not the kind of herd members a good leader should leave to their fate! I just hope he left some strong longnecks behind to protect them. Bron must have something that makes other dinosaurs follow him, but he doesn't show any of the responsibility true leadership demands!
6. Did you notice how Bron talked to Littlefoot about sharpteeth? "Sharpteeth are cowards!" Even though the statement seems to apply to the extremely harmless sharpteeth in the land before time 10 I wish he would say that into the face of the sharptooth who killed Littlefoot's mother!
Bron's statement is a generalization and it is also quite insensitive talking this way in front of Littlefoot whose mother was killed by a sharptooth. Also I wonder if Littlefoot thought of Chomper when his father said this. Wouldn't Chomper be a perfect counterproof? It does take courage to attack a grownup sharptooth while you are still a hatchling, and it does take courage (even for a grownup sharptooth) to attack huge leafeaters.
Bron doesn't need to fear sharpteeth, for he is invulnerable! We see a sharptooth biting his leg, but it doesn't cause much more than an "Ouch". We don't see a scratch, Bron doesn't limb or anything. They could've made all this so much more dramatic if they had stirred up some memories about the death of Littlefoot's mother. Bron is arrogant and invulnerable!
7. Bron had given Littlefoot up! Even though he apparently never heard anything about him after learning about the death of his mother, he just stopped looking. What Bron says to Littlefoot is: "I can't wait to introduce you to the others back home". The statement leaves no doubt that Bron's herd is not a herd of migrators (as Ali's) but has one place to stay, similar to the Great Valley I suppose. This fact does weaken the reproach of Bron being irresponsible for leaving the herd to head for the place where the solar eclipse takes place. So long he leaves them at a save, protected place...
However, it also raises the question why they depend on him at all. If they are in a place save enough to be left behind there by Bron (a place where they have stayed long enough to call it home), what for do they need a leader anyway? The Great Valley doesn't have one leader either, and there is not a one of the dinosaurs in the Great Valley that is so important for the Valley that his or her departure would cause any serious harm for the Valley's population.
8. Finally, if Bron was indeed so great and admirable character, how come that in nine previous movies he was so much ignored, that Littlefoot didn't even know he had a dad? Was there a good reason for Littlefoot's grandparents to try to conceal Bron from Littlefoot? Perhaps so. Littlefoot's grandparents may well have intended not to tell Littlefoot about Bron, fearing that he would risk his life trying to find his father. Still I'm not sure that explaination justifies leaving Littlefoot so ignorant he didn't even know he had a Dad.
I haven't yet mentioned every single point that make me dislike Bron, but as this thread is not only about him, but also about LBT 10 in general there are several more points I would like to address:
9. The whole story about all longnecks having the same dream which makes them heading for the same place should at least have been better explained. We know Littlefoot's grandparents from nine previous land before time movies (okay, make that eight as they didn't really play an active part in the original movie). From those movies we know Littlefoot's grandparents as very careful characters (just think of any scene when there is talk about the Mysterious Beyond). Yet in the land before time 10 their decision to leave the Great Valley (just two old longnecks and a kid) appears a really rash one. I'm sure these dreams were something important enough if we had been told a bit more about it. It would have been time for a "some things you see with your eyes others you see with your hard"-type of message. Maybe they could've even included something more than dreams by just making the legend Pat told a just a little more known. That would have been a reason I would feel much more comfortable about.
10. Another example of strange behaviour of characters concerns Cera's, Petrie's, Ducky's, and Spike's reaction upon learning that Littlefoot considers leaving them. The scene is the emotional climax of the movie and I really like the song "Bestest friends". But don't you find they seem to have a bit too less of a problem to let Littlefoot go for good? They hardly stop smiling upon hearing the news and they don't make the slightest attempt to keep Littlefoot with them. Highly considerate behaviour no doubt, but after all they have gone through together I would have expected at least an incling of true reluctance to give him up for somebody who could just as well come to the Great Valley.
11. The animation of the movie also had several shortcommings in my opinion:
The way they showed the solar-eclipse was very unrealistic. They showed the moon as a black circle long before it even came in front of the sun and the colouring of the sky too appeared almost as if a solar eclipse the way it is is not spectacular enough, they even felt they had to put a shower of shooting stars in, like a solar eclipse was not spectacular enough.
I experienced a solar eclipse in August 1999 and memorized my impressions. It was amazing. The eclipse could be felt before one saw it. The temperatur suddenly dropped and the air became chilly. There was no sudden shadow falling whose edge one could see, but the light became twilight and finally darkness when the moon moved before the sun...
They have the habit to tinge the sky red almost always when there is danger since LBT 5. I never liked this. This bad habit had a "tragic" climax in LBT 10 that gave me a real shudder. Not only the sky, but also the landscape, my goodness, even the characters turned red!
Unlike most other people I do not like the new 3D animation very much, at least not all of it. There are elements created by the computer which fit very well to the hand-drawn characters or landscapes. The water in LBT 9 for example looked great. However, much of the photo realistic pictures to me looks almost as if it had been taken from a different movie and just "inserted" into LBT (the mossy tree-branch Littlefoot climbs up for example).
^ Note that the last three points are mainly a matter of taste rather than anything fact based, so they just represent my subjective opinion.
12. The sharpteeth were just stupid! What has become of the impressive sharpteeth from the original movies and sequels 2, 3, 5, 6, and 9? I already pointed out that Bron is invulnerable to sharpteeth bites, but that Shorty can trip a grownup sharptooth by creeping under it's foot is a real outrage!
Remember the sharptooth from the original movie. What do you think would have happened if a longneck had crawled under its foot? That’s right! And that is why young longnecks should not deliberately crawl under a sharptooth's foot!
Then there was the thing with the stones. I really don't think that any of the LBT characters is strong enough to kick or hurl a stone large enough to do more than bother a sharptooth over such far a distance. A sharptooth tripling about a few little stones thrown in front of his feet... really that must be either extremely smooth and slippery stones or an extremely clumsy sharptooth. The sharpteeth in LBT 10 were for my opinion almost reduced to a ridiculous entertainment for the young dinosaurs! That's not what sharpteeth are supposed to be.
Well, you have a point there, but there is something else nobody , other than me, I think, has brought up.
If Mama Longneck and Grandpa and Grandma Longneck loved Bron so much, WTH didn't they go looking for him? I mean, with Sharpteeth, particularly the evil infamous one that is the main villain of the first film, one might have thought Bron had that sort of violent end.
Also, I have another theory of where Bron may have gone that could make a good deal of sense and put Bron in a bit of a better light. The narrator says that Littlefoot, Mama Longneck, and Grandpa and Grandma Longneck were the last of their herd. Well, what if the others didn't die, but went with Bron. Perhaps Bron was saving them from Sharpteeth and doing other stuff, while also looking for a place to live.
His pregnant wife would never be able to keep up with him, so she stayed with her parents. He intended to come back, but something bad happened to him and the rest of the herd. Perhaps the longnecks he found, including Shorty, were actually part of that herd. Perhaps he started taking cared of orphaned longnecks as the Mysterious Beyond wasn't a nice place and Sharpteeth were going around attacking them.
It says he got longnecks after the Great Earthshake, but that doesn't make it so that he couldn't have been collecting them. Having others to watch over would hamper him from going too far to go back home, and, speaking of home, we're assuming here that Littlefoot and his Grandma and Grandpa didn't move themselves from where they were when he left. After all, sticking around in the same place for years when that place isn't the Great Valley is a great way to become a meal for Sharpteeth!
Bron might have tried to find them earlier, but kept having no luck. As he was in charge of the longneck herd, he couldn't take too much time looking for his family. In this case, it might have been like the Old One, willing to let Grandpa Longneck die rather than risk the lives of her herd by going back to the Land of Mists.
Also, if Bron left before Littlefoot hatched, how the heck is he supposed to know what he looked like? Heck, in fact, considering that there were other eggs, though smashed, as far as he knew, he could have several kids. Also, as he wasn't there when Littlefoot hatched, how would he even know he had a son and not a daughter?
Also, if he was thought lost, why didn't Grandpa and Grandma Longneck appear greatly shocked to see Bron still alive?
All in all, Bron's behavior is a mystery, but, on the flip side, so is his family's that they apparently made as little effort to find him as he them.
Also, as for oddities, there is one even in the original LBT. The Gang of Five, minus Cera, are all in the tar pit. Cera has apparently done a Pterano and abandoned them. The others are already in there, and even Littlefoot falls in. It doesn't appear any of them are hanging onto the shore and so they should have perished. Yet, they appear as the tar monster and save Cera.
As for other oddities, we don't know how Mo learned Leaf Eater or why Dil and Ichy are the only Sharpteeth, other than Chomper himself, that can speak in English. (Heck, considering how much those two fight, it would be interesting to know how the heck they stayed together so long!)
Also, I did think that maybe Littlefoot's parents actually separated over marital strife and Bron and Grandpa and Grandpa Longneck and even Littlefoot's mother are just too uneasy about telling poor Littlefoot, who just found out he wasn't an orphan, the truth. It would sort of be how Mama Flyer was keeping the truth about Pterano from Petrie. However, if this scenario is true, we'll have to wait till a future release to find out. This theory would make sense, as the grandparents didn't appear shocked to see Bron alive, but Litltefoot did, so they may have told Litltefoot that Bron died, but somehow Littlefoot misses their lack of shock when seeing him still alive.
However, Bron's story isn't the oddest thing that has happened in LBT. We know that GVA happened only a short time after the original film ended.
I'm going to bold what I believe is the biggest irony in the entire Land Before franchise.
[B[ LITTLEFOOT LOST HIS MOTHER, AT MOST, ONLY A FEW MONTHS EARLIER. HE SEES THE SHARPTOOTH EGG HATCH AND HIS FRIENDS RUN FOR IT. THOUGH HE TRIES TO RUN, HE, ALONE OF THE OTHERS, COMES BACK AND NAMES THE SHARPTOOTH "CHOMPER" AND STICKS BY HIM EVEN WITH THE REST OF THE GANG OF FIVE AGAINST HIM. HECK, THEY STILL ARE FRIENDS EVEN INTO THE TV SERIES. [/B]
If you can find a bigger irony than that in LBT, I'll give you all the Tree Sweets on the tree!
Also, the how Chomper got into the Great Valley plot hole in the TV Series and why Chomper's parents wouldn't fight Red Claw like good parents but would send Chomper off with Ruby rivals the Bron mystery if you ask me.
Of course, there are some mysteries that bother me far more than Bron's oddities or the TV Serires plothole. Two in particular.
1.) Will Littlefoot ever marry Ali or is there someone else for him? (We all wonder that.)
And, the greatest unanswered question most LBT fans wonder, if they dare not speak it:
Will Littlefoot's actions in LBT's greatest irony (as I call it) pay off big time one day, perhaps leading to some salvation of the Great Valley from an evil mega villain, or will it rather lead to a huge betrayal on the part of Chomper and leave Litltefoot more grief stricken than he's ever been in his life (and, God forbid), be the LAST mistake he ever makes in his life?
That last one keeps me up at night and I wonder constantly about it and have tried to write fanfics to give me peace about it and hope to somehow get on the writing staff and write an answer that does what I want without a lot of
:cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry
Anyway, those are my takes on some things.
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Also, as for oddities, there is one even in the original LBT. The Gang of Five, minus Cera, are all in the tar pit. Cera has apparently done a Pterano and abandoned them. The others are already in there, and even Littlefoot falls in. It doesn't appear any of them are hanging onto the shore and so they should have perished. Yet, they appear as the tar monster and save Cera.
As for other oddities, we don't know how Mo learned Leaf Eater or why Dil and Ichy are the only Sharpteeth, other than Chomper himself, that can speak in English. (Heck, considering how much those two fight, it would be interesting to know how the heck they stayed together so long!)
Also, I did think that maybe Littlefoot's parents actually separated over marital strife and Bron and Grandpa and Grandpa Longneck and even Littlefoot's mother are just too uneasy about telling poor Littlefoot, who just found out he wasn't an orphan, the truth. It would sort of be how Mama Flyer was keeping the truth about Pterano from Petrie. However, if this scenario is true, we'll have to wait till a future release to find out. This theory would make sense, as the grandparents didn't appear shocked to see Bron alive, but Litltefoot did, so they may have told Litltefoot that Bron died, but somehow Littlefoot misses their lack of shock when seeing him still alive.
However, Bron's story isn't the oddest thing that has happened in LBT. We know that GVA happened only a short time after the original film ended.
I'm going to bold what I believe is the biggest irony in the entire Land Before franchise.
[B[ LITTLEFOOT LOST HIS MOTHER, AT MOST, ONLY A FEW MONTHS EARLIER. HE SEES THE SHARPTOOTH EGG HATCH AND HIS FRIENDS RUN FOR IT. THOUGH HE TRIES TO RUN, HE, ALONE OF THE OTHERS, COMES BACK AND NAMES THE SHARPTOOTH "CHOMPER" AND STICKS BY HIM EVEN WITH THE REST OF THE GANG OF FIVE AGAINST HIM. HECK, THEY STILL ARE FRIENDS EVEN INTO THE TV SERIES. [/B]
If you can find a bigger irony than that in LBT, I'll give you all the Tree Sweets on the tree!
Also, the how Chomper got into the Great Valley plot hole in the TV Series and why Chomper's parents wouldn't fight Red Claw like good parents but would send Chomper off with Ruby rivals the Bron mystery if you ask me.
Of course, there are some mysteries that bother me far more than Bron's oddities or the TV Serires plothole. Two in particular.
1.) Will Littlefoot ever marry Ali or is there someone else for him? (We all wonder that.)
And, the greatest unanswered question most LBT fans wonder, if they dare not speak it:
Will Littlefoot's actions in LBT's greatest irony (as I call it) pay off big time one day, perhaps leading to some salvation of the Great Valley from an evil mega villain, or will it rather lead to a huge betrayal on the part of Chomper and leave Litltefoot more grief stricken than he's ever been in his life (and, God forbid), be the LAST mistake he ever makes in his life?
That last one keeps me up at night and I wonder constantly about it and have tried to write fanfics to give me peace about it and hope to somehow get on the writing staff and write an answer that does what I want without a lot of
dino_sad.gif dino_sad.gif dino_sad.gif dino_sad.gif dino_sad.gif dino_sad.gif dino_sad.gif dino_sad.gif dino_sad.gif dino_sad.gif dino_sad.gif dino_sad.gif dino_sad.gif dino_sad.gif dino_sad.gif dino_sad.gif dino_sad.gif
Anyway, those are my takes on some things.
This part of your post is not in any way related to the topic of this thread! Could you stop going off-topic in every single post you write. To tell you the truth, it discourages me to read you posts at all <_<
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Anyway, the whole Land Before Time X seems to be underdeveloped:
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(the way the contact between Bron and Littlefoot's grandparents is shown we can take it for granted they are not Bron's parents)
With what I heard, he got back just as "The Great Earthshake" hit. From that perspective, I can not blame Bron for not finding them, especially with the fact the nest was gone. That earthquake was HUGE! It even beats the one in LBT 9.
1. That's a different discussion entirely, but I would like to think they are Bron's parents.
2. The earthquake in movie 9? How about comparing it to the earthquake from the original!
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Bron probably fell into depression, just like Littlefoot did. Perhaps Bron forgot about asking directions because of his loss and his guilt about leaving in the first place. And when you don't think about something for a long time, it can disappear from your mind, or be pushed far back into your mind. This probably happened to Bron.
OK, I'd really think this would be a good idea for a fabric, or even possibly a flashback in the upcoming film.
Maybe someone should do fanaart on it.
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Maybe the beauty of the valley in the flashback is Bron's memory. It really would have made more sense if the land was dangerous.
So, Bron is messing with us?
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I finally got to see 10, and I'm at a loss for words.
Reason why, is because from what I've heard about it, it's rather underrated to me.
One thing I found incredibly interesting is Shorty. From what I heard, I was expecting something rather kind and simple. I was surprised when I found Shorty was a, dare I say it, bully. T
1. What? A lot of people, from what I know, seem to consider it the best.
2. Short---kind and simple?? Where did you hear that??? :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow
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One thing I found incredibly interesting is Shorty. From what I heard, I was expecting something rather kind and simple. I was surprised when I found Shorty was a, dare I say it, bully.
I'm really curious to know how much you knew about Shorty and who told you he wasn't a jerk.
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How do I delete these posts? I'm sorry I made so many. It's just frustrating never getting an answer.
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With what I heard, he got back just as "The Great Earthshake" hit. From that perspective, I can not blame Bron for not finding them, especially with the fact the nest was gone. That earthquake was HUGE! It even beats the one in LBT 9. The trail they would make would be destroyed far too easily by "The Great Earthshake." With the idea of the trail most likely destroyed, it was simple enough to understand why he couldn't find them right away.
So it wasn't the same one in the original?
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One thing I found incredibly interesting is Shorty. From what I heard, I was expecting something rather kind and simple. I was surprised when I found Shorty was a, dare I say it, bully.
what?? how much did you know about him and who told you about him????
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With what I heard, he got back just as "The Great Earthshake" hit. From that perspective, I can not blame Bron for not finding them, especially with the fact the nest was gone. That earthquake was HUGE! It even beats the one in LBT 9.
:blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:
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I finally got to see 10, and I'm at a loss for words.
Reason why, is because from what I've heard about it, it's rather underrated to me.
One thing I found incredibly interesting is Shorty. From what I heard, I was expecting something rather kind and simple. I was surprised when I found Shorty was a, dare I say it, bully.
"underrated"? Shorty, "kind and simple"?? Where are you getting your info? Is someone trolling you?
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With what I heard, he got back just as "The Great Earthshake" hit. From that perspective, I can not blame Bron for not finding them, especially with the fact the nest was gone. That earthquake was HUGE! It even beats the one in LBT 9.
Um...so you're saying it wasn't the one in the original? It's obvious that one wasn't as big as the one in LBT 9, why are you comparing it to it, then??
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Sorry, I felt sort of bad about this post.
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I'm sorry, I'm just frustrated no one wants to respond to me.
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Replying to posts that are 10 years old could be the reason you're getting no responses....just a thought. ;)
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ok. I admit my frustration is being a few years too late.
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Replying to posts that are 10 years old could be the reason you're getting no responses....just a thought. ;)
Well, is the fact that I wasn't there right when they were posted a good enough reason to not get answers, though?
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Replying to posts that are 10 years old could be the reason you're getting no responses....just a thought. ;)
Well, is the fact that I wasn't there right when they were posted a good enough reason to not get answers, though?
The fact that you're making so many responses is probably a turn off to anyone coming into this topic. There's thirteen responses from you in a row before Petrie said something. That's quite a lot.
I understand if you're frustrated no one is replying, but you can't make someone reply to you, especially by constantly making more and more posts. All you're going to do is make people even less willing to reply to you.
All I can tell you is simply be patient and wait. If no one responds, then there really isn't anything you can do.
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Or maybe PM the member you want a response from. That way you'll at least make sure they notice your questions (if they're still active here, that is of course)... but posting several times in a row is not going to work as Dark Hououmon told you.
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You forgot two very important things, Malte279:
1) when Bron left, Mama Longneck was pregnant - Bron says "I knew we were going to HAVE a child" meaning that she had not given birth yet. A pregnant Longneck would be a colossal risk to travel with, especially as it was just Bron alone; if she got hurt or went into labour on the journey, she'd be a big risk - the noise would attract predators from miles around. Or, what if from lack of food on the journey, she lost the baby? Or what if Bron got injured and couldn't protect her and she died when attacked? Yes, where she was would have been dangerous, but there were lots of Longnecks around to protect them until they got separated by the Earthshakes.
2) Bron doesn't KNOW Littlefoot is alive; he stumbles across him by sheer accident. He mentions that he met someone who was able to tell him what had happened to Littlefoot's mother, but could not say whether Littlefoot was alive. For all Bron knew, his child had died some time after being born. Bron knows the child was born, because he says that he searched for Littlefoot, and Bron would probably know when his child was conceived and due to be born, but he doesn't know if the child lived/escaped a Sharptooth, etc.
Over time, he gets a herd and doesn't find Littlefoot. As he has a herd and no definitive status of his child's existence, he goes on with the herd; safety in numbers, no-one else to look out for, etc.
Bron has to work on the basis of "My child was born, but his mother died. An infant doesn't have any chance against a sharptooth, so he must be dead".
THAT is why Bron doesn't come to the Great Valley before. It's a complete accident that Bron even finds Littlefoot at all!
As well as this, Grandma and Grandpa and Littlefoot's mother and Littlefoot himself are referred to as "Longnecks"; Bron is NOT. Maybe he's a different species that wouldn't be classified as a Longneck? Maybe a Camarasaurus or something? And that is why he didn't have the sleep story - he's NOT a proper Longneck!
Or, he's got his herd to look out for and didn't find Littlefoot. Or Grandma and Grandpa Longneck thought Bron was dead -- Grandpa is shocked to see him in 10, so it's plausible.
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Welcome to the GOF :)
1) when Bron left, Mama Longneck was pregnant - Bron says "I knew we were going to HAVE a child" meaning that she had not given birth yet. A pregnant Longneck would be a colossal risk to travel with, especially as it was just Bron alone; if she got hurt or went into labour on the journey, she'd be a big risk - the noise would attract predators from miles around. Or, what if from lack of food on the journey, she lost the baby? Or what if Bron got injured and couldn't protect her and she died when attacked? Yes, where she was would have been dangerous, but there were lots of Longnecks around to protect them until they got separated by the Earthshakes.
I don't see how that would justify Bron's leaving his pregnant wife.
2) Bron doesn't KNOW Littlefoot is alive; he stumbles across him by sheer accident. He mentions that he met someone who was able to tell him what had happened to Littlefoot's mother, but could not say whether Littlefoot was alive. For all Bron knew, his child had died some time after being born. Bron knows the child was born, because he says that he searched for Littlefoot, and Bron would probably know when his child was conceived and due to be born, but he doesn't know if the child lived/escaped a Sharptooth, etc.
I disagree. For all Bron knew he didn't know anything about his child and there is absolutely no explanation whatsoever why he didn't go for the Great Valley which (according to the original movie) was where everyone was heading. Bron gave up without having taken the most reasonable step. Why he never went to the Valley remains unexplained. Just assuming for the own child to be dead without even being given any false information to base that assumption on seems like a rather cold hearted approach for a father to take, especially in combination with his not looking at the place where he must have known his wive was heading.
I may well be somewhat unfair in blaming Bron for all this. The truth comes down to the makers of LBT 10 not caring one bit about the original movie and continuity. When trying to apply any "in story explanations" however I really don't see how Bron's actions respectively lack of actions can be justified.
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Welcome to the GOF :)
1) when Bron left, Mama Longneck was pregnant - Bron says "I knew we were going to HAVE a child" meaning that she had not given birth yet. A pregnant Longneck would be a colossal risk to travel with, especially as it was just Bron alone; if she got hurt or went into labour on the journey, she'd be a big risk - the noise would attract predators from miles around. Or, what if from lack of food on the journey, she lost the baby? Or what if Bron got injured and couldn't protect her and she died when attacked? Yes, where she was would have been dangerous, but there were lots of Longnecks around to protect them until they got separated by the Earthshakes.
I don't see how that would justify Bron's leaving his pregnant wife.
2) Bron doesn't KNOW Littlefoot is alive; he stumbles across him by sheer accident. He mentions that he met someone who was able to tell him what had happened to Littlefoot's mother, but could not say whether Littlefoot was alive. For all Bron knew, his child had died some time after being born. Bron knows the child was born, because he says that he searched for Littlefoot, and Bron would probably know when his child was conceived and due to be born, but he doesn't know if the child lived/escaped a Sharptooth, etc.
I disagree. For all Bron knew he didn't know anything about his child and there is absolutely no explanation whatsoever why he didn't go for the Great Valley which (according to the original movie) was where everyone was heading. Bron gave up without having taken the most reasonable step. Why he never went to the Valley remains unexplained. Just assuming for the own child to be dead without even being given any false information to base that assumption on seems like a rather cold hearted approach for a father to take, especially in combination with his not looking at the place where he must have known his wive was heading.
I may well be somewhat unfair in blaming Bron for all this. The truth comes down to the makers of LBT 10 not caring one bit about the original movie and continuity. When trying to apply any "in story explanations" however I really don't see how Bron's actions respectively lack of actions can be justified.
It's implicitly clear why he'd leave her. She's a problem; she's pregnant, so she's slower; she's pregnant, so she'd need to eat more; she pregnant, so she'd need to sleep more.
And think of this - what chance DOES a tiny Longneck of Littlefoot's size have of surviving? If Bron DID jump to that conclusion (or the conclusion that littlefoot had fallen down the big hole and been in the nest at the time!), then it's a reason why.
As for why they didn't go to the Great Valley, Bron explains that too; he had a herd and that made them really safe. "Sharptooth only hunt in twos or threes and your friend Sue can handle that many herself". By that, Bron and the others were safe and didn't need to go there.
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In LBT 7, there is a well-known discussion between the Gang about who crosses the vine first (when chasing after Pterano's posse). A comment is made that Cera is always at the back of the line whenever the Gang had left the Great Valley previously, yet in earlier films, we clearly see that Cera has never Once been at the back of the line when crossing any sort of gap.
Is she at the back in any of the films, or just earlier ones?
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That bothered me too. I mean, it’s always Spike who gets left behind whenever they’re crossing a river or a cliff. The only instance I can think of where Cera was the one in the back is in LBT V when they’re on that makeshift raft and are being chased by the shark.
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Ducky is usually with Spike in these instances also. Exceptions include LBT 5 and the incident immediately following the discussion, since Ducky wasn't there.