Ducky123's fic

[Ducky123]

Thanks, Toby
it's more like a getaway (chapter headline reference  :blink: ) but it's a kind of evacuation as well.
I think segregation is not the right word since it has a negative meaning... It's just obvious that every herd sticks to its own kind

Next chapter will have moar action and an unexpected event... you'll see  

[Sleeping-force's-inside]

*cowers under tower of pillows*

Well, so much for the safety of the Great Valley D:

I like the story, Littlefoot is just adorbs there :3 And if you need help translating, just tell me (isse German too)

[Ducky123]

You're from Germany???

anyway, thanks I have no problems with the translating however I need a proof-reader (Molly's job so far and she does it good ) If you're willing to proof read my fic, too, you have the job :
I stopped translating quite a while ago since I wasn't sure about one chapter so I send it someone and he said there is room for improvisation so I almost completely rewrote it, it's about ten times as long now Unfortunatily, the person is very busied atm so he's not able to give me feed on the rewritten chapter... You want to?

[Ducky123]

Thought I outta update my fic, it's been quite a while

Chapter 7: Trapped in darkness

Due to the shock wave, all of flying dinosaurs were brought down and they were numb for some time. Even the Flyers who had already made a big distance crashed into the ground. Many were knocked unconscious, none of the dinosaurs could continue their flight. A few of them had broken bones, inter alia an old couple of Longnecks that were located quite nearby the Great Valley.
The ground moved in waves, no one has ever experienced such a heavy Earthshake. Fiery ash soared up from the whole Valley.
Then the earthshake tailed off. Littlefoot and his family endeavoured to stand on their feet again.
After several unsuccessful attempts Grandma, who limped a bit, made it on her feet, too, so they  continued their journey. The sky above them was increasingly covered by the enormous cloud of ash whereby it became darker and darker. Littlefoot was scared thus he shyly asked his mother, "Mother?"
His mother, who still carried him, answered, "Yes, what do you want to ask, sweetheart?"
"What is up there in the cloud?"
All looked at Grandpa, since he more often than not knew an advice when all the others were clueless. He cleared his throat since his neck had become dry due to the effort and said, "This is ash! In that are tiny stones, tinier than sand corns, thus they can reach enormous heights!"
"But can the ash fall down at all?" Littlefoot digged deeper.
"Yes! And I hope that it doesn't happen right now because we're located under the ash, so it would bury us!"
"So let's hurry up because I heard that dinosaurs can smother from ash like it happened to Mr. Thicknose who was smothered due to the bad smelling vapors!" Littlefoot's Father added.
"Sweetheart, how's your leg going?" Grandpa asked.
"It's okay I think!" she defiantly replied. "I'll lead us again so you can walk my pace. In case I'm too slow leave me back!"
"We don't leave anyone behind!" Littlefoot's Father repeated. "Now come on and hurry up!"
The Longnecks hurried more than they ever did before, but the cloud of ash was much faster. It was getting darker.
After a while Grandpa questioned Littlefoot whether he could look back. So he looked back and marveled. The Great Valley couldn't be seen, instead he could see a lot of ash which fell to the ground. Frightened, he stared to the sky. He had to notice that the cloud above him didn't have a clear contour anymore, both behind and above as well as in front of them.
"Mother, Mother, I think the ash is going to fall to the ground soon!" he shouted, panicked.
The Longnecks stopped looking into the sky.
"NOOOO!!!" Littlefoot's Mother screamed.
"There's no chance of escaping the ash anymore!" Grandma objectively stated.
"No! We can make it! Hurry up!" Littlefoot's Father screamed.
"Be reasonable, Bron, we're better off if we stay together and sit out the danger!" Grandpa argued, but Littlefoot's Father was guided by his fear.
"NEVER! I wanna live, I don't wanna suffocate!!!"
"Stay, please!" Littlefoot's Mother begged, but without any success. Bron began to run.
He just screamed at them,"I'll search for you as soon as it's over! Good Luck!"
Littlefoot's Mother watched his senseless departure, stunned as well as her parents until they, and some moments later him, got swallowed by the masses of ash...

Unstoppably the grey ash fell onto the Longnecks. The three remaining grown-ups protected Littlefoot by placing him in the middle of them, and they tried to breathe in a minimum amount of ash. They waited for hours since it would have been senseless to continue the journey. The danger of inhaling the ash was simply too great. On top of that, they wouldn't escape the cloud of ash at all.
Here and there were mainly some little stones, which were so small that even Littlefoot hardly noticed them at all. In the meantime he got covered by the ash, completely.
Then it became darker and darker, provided it could become even darker under a cloud of ash. Littlefoot and his Mother were already asleep, only Grandma and Grandpa dimly talked about Bron's unexpected flight. Then their eyes closed as well, and they fell asleep.        

There'll be more action soon and if you wonder if the Gang meet each other you don't have to wait too long (depends on how fast I can upload them the next few weeks, expect more regular updates in the future)

Oh, and no Cliffhanger this time   :blink: There'll be enough to come so be PREPARED  

[Petrie85]

It was a very good chapter. I loved how you wrote it and I loved the fact it get's suspenseful near the end.

[Sleeping-force's-inside]

ASGSHS!!! NUH!!!! D:

Don't get buried in the ash!!!  

[Dosu2Dinner]

CLIFFHANGGGGERRRRRRRRR!!!  

Very good. As you can see, I liked how you ended on a cliffhanger - then again, I do it all the time.  

And strange, Bron seems to have had a new dynamic. Interesting how he's putting his own skin before that of his family. I wonder if they'll find him after this is all over or if he'll just wander off...
Keep writing!  

[Ducky123]

Glad you all liked it

About the Cliffhangers, my chapters usually are that short because I end them if a scene/action comes to its end or if there's a cliffhanger situation This time it is actually meant to be the end of a scene but if you consider it a cliffhanger (I admit there's quite some potential for one) I'm more than okay with that
Always keep 'em guessing

[Nahla]

Finally caught up


Very good Ducky

[Ducky123]

Chapter 8: In search for Bron

The situation of the Longnecks didn't change over the next few days. Ash still rained down on them. It stunk and everyone could hear the rumbling from the Great Valley the whole time, it was quite loud.
On the sixth day the rumbling finally muted, the raining down of the ash decreased. Despite that it was still strong enough to stop the Longnecks from wandering further.
Finally, on the seventh day, they could continue to flee.
However, they needed to walk through the masses of ash, which was quite difficult, so they progressed slowly and laboriously.
Littlefoot asked his Grandparents, "Grandpa, Grandma, where's Dad?"
They remorsefully exchanged stares, thinking hard about how to tell it their grandson.  
Grandma started, "Well, I don't know, little one. We are in search for him and he might be in search for us, too!"
"Don't worry, Littlefoot!" his mother added.
"Yeah!" Grandpa sanguinely said, "The meeting place is a little oasis at the Big Water, your father knows that!" he smiled.
What's the Big Water?" Littlefoot questioned.
"You'll see, my dear!" his mother answered.
"But Mother!" Littlefoot whined, "I wanna know! I'm hungry and thirsty as well!"
"Same here, sweetheart!" his mother replied.
"We are as well!" Grandma told him. Grandpa nodded in agreement.
"So let's hurry up!" Grandpa recommended, taking up the top. With that he took place of
Littlefoot's Mother in leading them away, changing their path towards the direction of the Big Water.
Thankfully, they soon passed the area where the ash was especially high. That ash only was about half a metre high, so the grown-ups could easily step over it.
The Longnecks moved some ash away to have a place to rest for the night, and they lay down and instantly fell into a deep sleep due to the exhaustion of their travelling...

Throughout the next days, nothing important happened. Between the now non-existent Great Valley and the Big Water was a vast and monotonous wasteland. Hunger and thirst plagued the Longnecks.
Thankfully, Littlefoot's relatives knew quite well where they had to wander, it was very difficult for them to orientate in such a monotonous landscape.
Littlefoot whined again and again when they would finally be there. Though he always got the same reply from his mother, "We are there if we are there, little one!"
After wandering through the desert for ten days the Longnecks eventually arrived at a high sand dune.
"Do you smell that, Littlefoot?" Grandpa questioned.
"My sniffer's completely dried up!" the little Longneck responded. "I can't smell anything!"
"Well, you didn't even try!" Grandma, who was now carrying the little one, critisized.
"Right! You can't say 'I can't do that' if you even haven't tried it!" his mother caringly but not reproachfully confirmed.
"Remember that!" Grandma ordered. She was kind of harsh due to the exhaustion caused by their long travel plagued by hunger, thirst and pain.
"Okay," Littlefoot cowardly answered.
"It's alright, little one!" his mother calmed him down.
"Right behind this sand dune is the Big Water, Littlefoot!" Grandpa told.
"Yay!!!" the little Longneck celebrated.
"Though you mustn't drink from this water in any case, alright?" his mother reminded.
"Why?!? I'M THIRSTY!!!" he cried.
"The Big Water tastes awful!" Grandma explained, "And it makes you even thirstier!"
"I'll drink it!" Littlefoot definately told.
"You'll spit it out, trust me!" Grandma said as definate as her grandson.
Littlefoot ran away. His mother and his grandparents didn't try to stop him. They knew he would learn his lesson.
As Littlefoot eventually arrived at the highest point of the dune his mouth hung open. He hadn't seen so much water in his short life so far. It made those funny movements: First towards him, then away from him, then towards him again, away... The little Longneck ran to the Big Water... and jumped in it. Immediately he lost his footing due to the movements of the water. He swallowed a huge amount of water which tasted terrible, as his Grandma had told him. He coughed, swallowed even more water, coughed again, and was pulled under the surface, using his last strenghs to stay above the surface and cough his guts out.
"Littlefoot!!!" his mother, who just arrived the top of the dune, called, "I'm coming, hang in there!“
Littlefoot desperately tried not to sink, but he was swallowing a lot of water. Suddenly he perished. "LITTLEFOOT!!!" his mother screamed. She ran to the coast holding her head under the water. She saw Littlefoot lying on the ground of the Big Water and not moving anymore.
"Fortunately the water isn't deep here!" she thought. She grabbed her son's tail and pulled him out of the water.
Meanwhile, Grandpa arrived, and he took the motionless Littlefoot from her. Carefully he layed him on the ground. He softly hit him on the back with his tail, hoping it would work. Littlefoot started coughing, and a lot of water came out of his mouth. He was alive!

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Next one's gonna be epic... it'll be divided into seven parts and I'll post them daily once they're finished

[Sleeping-force's-inside]

And that is how we nearly lost Littlefoot... again -_-"

I do like it, but what happened to Bron?

[Ducky123]

They got separated when they were buried under the ash cloud... Their plan is to meet Bron at this oasis they're heading to since he too knows the plan that is to meet there...

Whether they'll meet him or not you'll see sooner than you think

[Ducky123]

Hey guys! Since I'd like to submit this fic to the FF Award Voting I eventually have to give this story a title.
Unfortunately, I'm terribly uncreative coming up with names It would be extremely appreciated if some of you would give it a try and think of a appropriate name for my fic.
The main conflict will be revealed in the next chapter... which I hopefully can post soon. There's also the possibility to send those of you who are willing to help me the yet not proofread chapter (proofreading is in the progress atm). I'd tell you what would roughly happen in the fic so you can come up with a name easier and more efficiant.

Any volunteers?

[Ducky123]

Hey guys! Daily updates 'till Sunday! Enjoy!

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Chapter 9: The Battle

Part 1: Grandma was right!

After Littlefoot had spat out all the water again, his mother took him on her back.
Littlefoot fell asleep with exhaustion.
The Bright Circle was burning from the sky. The wind blowing from the Big Water offered little relief.
Littlefoot woke up late in the afternoon. His neck and his mouth were parched and searing from  the saltwater he had swallowed having to admit that his grandma was right. Being extremely thirsty and feeling scorched, he was startled to realise he couldn't speak. "It must be because my neck is so dry!" he thought.

He passed out soon. If he wouldn't get something to drink soon he would die. Littlefoot's herd knew that as well, so they moved on as fast as possible to reach the oasis that very night.

At dawn they finally reached the oasis, and they went to the nearest watering hole. Grandma tried to wake up Littlefoot on the back of his mother, but it was no use.
The little Longneck was very close to death, therefore she grabbed the little one, carefully placing him into the shallow water so that the water could flow into his mouth. Littlefoot drank very much until his herd finally decided he had had enough for the moment.
Exhausted from their long journey, they laid down and fell asleep.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is only the first, rather boring part of Chapter 9 (yes, I decided to make it a seven-parter  :blink: ).
Y'know, I almost completely rewrote and revamped Chapter 9 (this is the main reason for why I made parts plus everything is closely related to each other) due to lack of backstory and it being rushed (thanks to Malte279 at this point for his support). This little part (one can actually call it a 'preview' ) survived my revamping somehow
It could've been included into chapter 8, actually, but I wanted to leave chapter 8 on a cliffhanger!

Expect a climax 'till the end

You sure wanna know what's going to happen in the next one I bet? Well... let's just say new and old characters are introduced and they're going to face a threat. Yeah, that should get you guys interested :

PS: Huge thanks to my hard-working proofreaders SRFG and Sleepy

[Dosu2Dinner]

Littlefoot is a little whinny in this...good thing he learnt his lesson!  

Nice work, I'm interested to see what this'll lead up to. I wonder what Bron's doing, and everyone else who left the Valley? I hope they return soon...

And...Littlefoot's mother...? Interested to see what will happen to her...

[Ducky123]

Well, Bron's in Lands Unknown and Littlefoot's Mother... you'll see

next one
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Part 2: Danger Ahead

At midday the four Longnecks woke up. It was almost impossible to wake up Littlefoot though. After all of them had a drink at the watering hole, they wandered around to find a tree that has juisy treestars. As they eventually had found such a tree, they munched as much as they could since they didn't know how much time they would spend at this place. Besides, they had had a hellish hunger since they hadn't eaten anything for almost two weeks.
Just as they were about to settle down and rest to regenerate their strenght and to take a relaxing sunbath a roar could be heard in the distance.
"Mother, what was that?" Littlefoot asked, startled.
"It was a Sharptooth!" she replied.
"A sh-sh-sharptooth!?" Littlefoot screamed.
"We ought to find and warn the others!" Grandpa announced...

The five Threehorns - the old Threehorn, his mate and their three daughters - woke up. It was still early in the morning. The Threehorns were the first to arrive at the little oasis.
After the little ones had filled their tummies, they played tag on a meadow - always under the
watchful eyes of their mother.
The old Threehorn had knocked over a tree so that his mate and he could feast on the treestars.
After a while the Threehorn called: "I gonna explore this place a bit!"
"Alright!" his mate drowsily replied who just dozed a bit. "Take care of yourself, dear!"
"I will, sweetheart!" He answered, grinning, walking away.
The old Threehorn's mate watched him until he disappeared. With a smile in her face she went on dozing always keeping one eye open to watch the children splashing around in a nearby river.
After some time had passed she heard a roar that with no doubt was uttered by a Sharptooth. She immediately jumped to her feet calling her three daughters, "Cera, Candy, Cara!". She hoped  their daddy was safe...

The Swimmers arrived - as the Longnecks - in the middle of the night. They entered the oasis from the land though since the parents probably hadn't been able to keep their twelve little ones from swimming in the Big Water - the instict not to go to far from any water, to bath in it, to splash in it and to swim in it was fairly strong after all -.
Anyhow, at midday the Swimmers were rudely woken up by a loud roar. The kids got petrified, they ran around in a mess screaming and crying.
"Settle down, kids!" their mother called, none of them listened.
"HEY!" their father bellowed. This time all of them stood still listening carefully. "Come on! We ought to find the others who can fight these beasts more efficiently than us Swimmers!"

The Flyers arrived at the oasis the day before. They spent the night in a cave at the land side of the oasis. At the next morning they searched for berries.
While Pterano prefered fish, his sister, her mate and their five children rather had berries and other Sweet Bubbles. As they finally discovered some Sweet Bubbles after a lenghty search, they landed in one of the trees pleasureably munching the superbly tasting Sweet Bubbles, while Pterano was fishing nearby.
They hadn't finished their meal as a roar sounded.
"The last thing we need are Sharpteeth!" the male Flyer murmured.
"Follow me, kids, Sharpteeth are around!" the Flyer Mommy called.
Pterano came back from the fishing.
"You heard that?!?" he shouted, excited.
"We did!" his sister commented, "We must warn the others!"
"Come Petrie!" Pterano told one of the young ones who wasn't able to fly yet, "I carry you!"

Mr. Clubtail just enjoyed some farns as he heared a loud roar.
"I knew I'd need ya soon, buppy!" he commented the situation.
He watched the Flyers rising into the air. "Finally, there's some action!" he pleased.

A Spiketail family consisting of a pair of parents, a grandma and three recently hatched kids heard the roar as well. They were the only residents of this place but it was the first time that a Sharptooth dared to show his face there.
"You all know, what has to be done!" the old, frail female Spiketail stated.
"Mother!" the male Spiketail retorted, "We won't leave this paradise!"
"Yeah! We'll ally with the visitors of this oasis!" his mate confirmed.
"We'll drive those Sharpteeth out, together!"

Three Longnecks being close to finish Time of Great Growing just ate as they heard the Sharptooth roar.
"Hey Freddy! You heard this?!" one of them called.
"Yo Greg! You heard it, Melissa?"
"I'm not deaf, boys!" Melissa laughed.
"What do we do now?" Freddy asked.
"Why we kick those cowards into their ugly butts!!!" Greg announced, self-confidently.
"I consider this a stupid idea!" Melissa warned.
"Come on, scaredy-egg!" Greg begged.
"Don't you remember Greg winning against this Bellydragger!" Freddy questioned.
"I do! I won't join this nonetheless!" she declared. "I'll ally with the other dinosaurs!"
"There are more?!? Freddy wondered.
"Yeah... alright! You lead the way!" Greg compromised.
"Okay! Follow me, boys!"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'd be pleased if you guess what might happen next. Oh, and gimme your thoughts of the OC's Greg, Freddy and Melissa

Next one's gonna introduce the Sharptooth and the grown-ups will argue as usual

[Dosu2Dinner]

Ah, poor Freddy, he seems a little scared, bless!

Interesting OCs...I know they've only just been introduced, by the already have the potential to be incredible...and this spiketail family? Well...it only remains to be seen what happens to them...but why do I get the feeling death may befall some of this characters?

Keep up the good work!

[Ducky123]

Thanks for your thoughts, Toby

Greg is supposed to be self-confident, showing off and brave but also cocky... you'll see soon enough..
Freddy shares a lot with Mud, actually. He's somewhat dump witted :blink:
Melissa is funny and friendly but a scaredy-egg if it goes to fighting.

So your guesses were quite correct

Who the Spiketail Family is... keep 'em guessing :

[Ducky123]

Part 3: Planning the Battle

The big green-greyish Sharptooth with eyes green as poison looked down at the oasis.
<This will be a feast my little Fastbiter friends!> He laughed.
Two dozens of Fastbiters stood around the Sharptooth in a semicircle. All of them were hungry, ready to do everything to satisfy their hunger. Though there was another thing that incided them...
<The usual way> he instructed them.
The Fastbiters charged towards the oasis on silent claws.
The Sharptooth let out an elated scream following his loyal fellow Fastbiters...

After all grown-ups and their kids had gathered on a big meadow amidst the oasis, Grandpa started talking. Everyone was listening in exitement and fear.
"Hello my friends! As you certainly noticed there are Sharpteeth nearby!"
Loud murmurs and declarations of anxiety were made.
"I know that you're probably scared but there's safety in numbers after all!"
"As most of know I actually can't stand Longnecks but I ought to agree with you: If we stay together placing our kids in our middle, nothing should go wrong!" the Threehorn spoke up.
"Pterano!" Littlefoot's Mother called, "Would you look out from above so that we won't get attacked when we're not ready yet?"
"Sure! I won't be of great help on the ground, anyway!" he joked turning seriously again, immediately.
"Return as soon as we have to fear an attack!" Grandma said.
"And tell us how many we might have to deal with!" the female Threehorn shouted. "Sharpteeth rarely attack alone!" She twinkled to her mate.
"That's correct..." he muttered.
Pterano raised up flying in the direction where they believed the Sharpteeth.
"Alright!" Grandpa continued, "We need to divide ourselves into different groups!"
"Every group will get a respective task!" Grandma went on.
"Form groups? What for?" Freddy questioned.
"Oh Freddy, silly!" Melissa giggled. "So that everyone knows what he has to do!"
"I'm with Freddy on this one!" Greg affirmed. "I tell you we simply overwhelm them!"
"Calm down, kids!" the Threehorn laughed. "You stay in our middle where it's safest!"
"But..." Greg protested.
"Why don't you let him, dear?!" Threehorn's mate whispered. "If he absolutely wants to fight, just let him!"
"He's old enough, after all!" the Swimmer Daddy confirmed.
"Why not! Then fight with us!" the old Threehorn admitted.
"You Swimmers could watch our kids!" Grandma suggested.
"But I'd like to build something to defend myself first!" the Swimmer Daddy responded.
He was known for his great skillfulness and ability to create things made of wood and rock. In the past he used to use a sharpened bough to fight which he unfortunately lost due to the escape  from the Great Valley.
"Do you think you can manage this in a time that limited?" Grandpa doubted.
"Sure! I only need a sharp-edged rock and a long, preferably straight bough!" he replied.
"Can I be of help?" the Flyer Daddy offered.
"It'd be a pleasure!" the Swimmer Daddy replied. Together they walked respectively flew away.
"Alright, the Spiket..." Grandpa was about to say but he was interrupted by Pterano who panicky fluttered towards them landing ungently.
Out of breath he shouted, "It's him, it's HIM, we must ESCAPE!!!"
"WHO!?!" the Threehorn bellowed.
"T-the one that once dared to enter the Great Valley!" Pterano exclaimed, terrified.
"The one whose brother I 'accidently' pushed down the abyss?" Littlefoot's Mother shockingly questioned.
"You got it!" Pterano sighed.
"What happened?" the old Spiketail asked.
"There's no time for this now!" the Threehorn snapped at her. "We're so many that he wouldn't even dare to get close to us!"
"I didn't reveal the worst yet!" Pterano sighed. "He has an 'army', an army of Fastbiters!"
The Dreihorn looked as if he had seen a flying Longneck.
"How many?" Grandpa whispered.
"Two dozens!!!" Pterano grimly replied.
"That's horrendous!" the Flyer Mommy exclaimed.
"Indeed!" the Threehorn who got his composure back roared. "When will they attack, Pterano?"
"You know I only understand a little bit Sharptooth but I believe that they rest and discuss everything first before they're going to attack us.
"Mother?" Littlefoot asked.
"Shhhhhht!" she made him silent.
"Let's hope that Pterano is right!" Grandpa spoke.

"You still wanna fight them!?" Melissa snappily questioned.
"S-sure!" Greg unsteadily replied.
"Idiot!"

"Now that we know the exact strenght of our enemies I consider it best to build a line!" Grandpa
proposed.
"Why of all a line? It's even easier for them to break through!" the Threehorn retorted.
"None of our lineups will stand like a mountain for long since Sharpteeth usually try to separate single individuals from the others!" Grandpa reasoned.
"Yes, but what about our children?" the Threehorn questioned.
"We will place somebody behind the fighting who protects the children!" Grandpa responded.
"I watch our little ones!" the Swimmer Mommy offered.
"Sure you can but you're not strong enough to defend them!" the Threehorn retorted.
"I defend our children!" Littlefoot's Mother exclaimed.
"I was about to propose that, my daughter!" Grandpa spoke.
"But we need strong fighters at the front!" the Threehorn who slowly got annoyed by the Longnecks screamed.
"We also need someone who can actually protect the children!" Grandma furiously argued.
"Humpff!"
"Enough disputes for today! Let's rest so that we're fit for the fight when it starts!" Grandpa
suggested.
Everyone agreed. Most of them ate and drank something to strenghten their bodies. Pterano spyed the pack without getting any news worthy to tell.
After a while - the Swimmer Daddy and the Flyer Daddy were back in the meanwhile - Grandpa walked to the Spiketails to ask if they were still willing to listen to the story. They affirmed.
Grandpa gathered everyone around him and started narrating...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
I'm still interested in your thoughts guys

Next one's gonna have a flashback and a lot of backstory.. the tension grows...

[Dosu2Dinner]

And so the eve of battle begins!    

Nice work! I find it quite interesting how, even though there are species disagreements still, they realise they all depend on each other. And Greg, you reckless lad...I hope he's OK... :blink:

And flashbacks? I'm looking forward to seeing them too...