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The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug

Mumbling

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Anyone seen it yet? I'll try not to spoil anything :)

Just got back from the cinema, I loved it. Looking forward once again to the next movie. I think they should have finished at another point (either before or after the final scene).

My mom didn't like that they added a lot of scenes that weren't in the book... But it didn't feel forced or boring to me. The animation of Smaug is done really well.


WeirdRaptor

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The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug

Peter Jackson's promise: "We're making it a trilogy so nothing from the book will be left out."

What actually happened: EVERYTHING from the book got trimmed down in favor of padding they came up with and then it ended on the dumbest cliffhanger in the history of cinema. Almost all of Beorn's character was changed and most of his dialogue was cut. Almost everything that happened in Mirkwood was cut and, wow, was Taurial pointless. Also, there's a dumb subplot with Kili and another with Bard and the Mast of Lake Town. They also way, WAY over-extend the scenes with Smaug. Then they created a plot hole by having Bilbo TAKE OFF THE RING IN FRONT OF THE VICIOUS FIRE-BREATHING DRAGON.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf


Nick22

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well they hasd to cut it off at some point, since they have to save enough action fpr the third film.. i'm really looking forward to it, the reviews have been good.
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WeirdRaptor

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It was still a really dumb place to cut it off at.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf


Kor

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How long was it?  Sounds like the extended version may be better.   Though I'm sure some won't want to wait a year to see it.  Since I guess it'll be out about a year after the extended version came out on dvd.


rhombus

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I pretty much share Mumbling's opinion on the film.  I was quite pleased with it, although I agree that it would have been advisable, in my opinion, to cut off the film at a different point than where they did.  I also was quite surprised with the number of additions that were made relative to the book, although I must say that I did not feel that they detracted from the story.  It was just very noticeable to anyone who has read the book.


Go ahead and check out my fanfictions, The Seven Hunters, Songs of the Hunters, and Menders Tale.


WeirdRaptor

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That is beside the point. Peter Jackson has gone on record stating that they expanded the running time so nothing from the book would get cut. That was one of their qualms while filming Lord of the  Ringss. In this movie, most of everything that was ever in the book got cut and replaced with something else and absolutely none of it improved on it.

They took all the fun and light-hearted bits out making for a very dark and bleak atmosphere. Everything that was fun or interesting about Beorn from the book was stripped away and replaced with more grim elements (Beorn DID NOT need to be made a part of the overarcing plot. He wa fine as a hermit). All the funner bits from Mirkwood were excluded. The path in Mirkwood was ridiculous! They somehow made the Elven King into an even bigger douche than he was in the book (and that IS saying something!). They completely changed Bard from being an upstanding citizen of Lake Town and again, the sequence with Smaug just went on and on and on and on. PADDING, PADDING, PADDING! PADDING, PADDING, PADDING!
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf


Malte279

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I haven't read any of the previous posts yet, but having watched the Desolation of Smaug yesterday I would like to give my two cents on it without being influenced by the earlier posts (which I am curious to read however) ;)
There may be spoilers in my post so anyone who would like to avoid any shouldn't read on.

Generally I found the movie to be okay without either totally carrying me away or turning out a disappointment. I had expected for a lot of new stuff to be added to the plot due to the frequently mentioned issue of turning the book (comparatively short compared to the lord of the rings) into a movie trilogy.
What did surprise me (and I must say it did so in a negative way) was not so much that there was a lot of stuff added but more how much they either left out or rushed through at an extremely fast pace.
For example it took me by total surprise how much they rushed Beorn. The book includes a number of elements which would have been easy to include in the movie and which would have given Beorn a lot more character. In the book Gandalf tricks Beorn into accepting 13 dwarfes as guests by at first not revealing there were any dwarfes at all. Instead Gandalf starts to tell the story of how he and Bilbo got there and in the process gradually revealing the group by group the presence of the dwarfes whom Gandalfs signals to show up by whistling whenever Beorn deducts from the story he is being told that more individuals must have been there than Gandalf had so far revealed. Not only would this part have been a fine chance to give a short summary of events so far, but it would have also been another chance to reintroduce the dwarfes one by one. Even with the visible effort of the makers to make the dwarfes individuals I would still be unable to give the correct who is who to every single one of them. The book further includes the notion of how Beorn's image of the dwarfes improves after he finds out (while ranging in bear shape at night) that the story Gandalf told was true. Furthermore the book includes the strict request of Beorn to send the ponies he borrows the dwarfes back once they reach the edge of Mirkwood. In the book there is a short debate between Gandalf and Thorin who considers taking the ponies along (and Gandalf points out that they are being observed by Beorn in bearshape all along to ensure that they live up to their word to send the ponies back). I have a very stong feeling that (with the actual sending back of the ponies included in the movie) there will be such scenes in an extended DvD edition. Without these scenes it seems a bit like something is missing (especially given the efforts to show the dark sides of Thorin's character in other scenes).
The scene with the spiders in the wood was also extremely rushed compared to the book. I find the added (as in not being part of the book) scene in which Bilbo notices the uncommon rage the ring is causing in him after he slaughtered the spider a sensible addition, but it doesn't really make up for all that was left out about the spider scene from the book.
Furthermore they leave out all about the starving dwarfes trying to get to a feast of the elves they notice from a distance in the wood. In the book the elves disappear the moment the dwarfes come up and the perception of the elves that the dwarfes are "disturbers of peace" and that they left the road (in the movie their loss of the road is never mentioned again) are important reasons in the book why the generally good elves arrest the dwarfes.
In the movie the elves act a bit more like douches by comparison. I do see why they bring in Tauriel (I don't think the book ever actually alludes to the mere existence of women at all), but the way they did appears a little too clishee for my taste. Also her saving Killi with Athelas after he had been wounded by an arrow with a morgul head (why the heck would they happen to use such extremely rare blades as arrowheads?) was just a bit too much "copying" from the fellowship of the rings. The elve (Legolas in particular) fighting scenes with the orcs were too much over the top for me. Don't get me wrong now; the scenes as such are awesome, but they just don't seem to fit into a fantasy epost that is meant to be taken serious. We have seen some of it in the lord of the rings trilogy already, but I had the impression that the makers were under pressure to top the "Oliphant scene" from the return of the king when working on the Legolas scenes of the Hobbit. The result I'm afraid is a mixture of extremely skilled ballet and genocide committed on orcs that would fit well into an itchy and scratchy cartoon or a super hero movie that is explicitely meant for the heroes to be over the top. For the film adaptation of Tolkien's books I think it would be good if they toned it down a little.
One negative consequence of this treatment of the orcs is that it is hard to take them serious. They are ugly but don't come across as particularly dangerous. They are slaughtered by the dozens while one never gets any actual sense of danger for the heroes. With the way they come across it seems like a horrible shock that after a fight with one orc Legolas actually gets a nosebleed (after being treated in a fashion that one should expect to scratch even an elve a little more).
Even the heroes themselves don't seem to take the orcs or the evil particularly serious. Gandalf for example enters Dol Guldur all by himself in full awareness of the fact that it is a trap and a strong incling that the necromancer is Sauron (wasn't Sauron in the lord of the rings someone who was... you know... intimidating people?).
When the orcs enter laketown (how did they ever get there without being spotted?) they don't seem to bother anyone enough to strike an alarm so all the (noisy and therefore impossible to go unnoticed) fighting that takes place seems to be regarded as a private brawl that is nobody else's business.
I like the fact that they elaborated on the poverty of the town ruled by a selfish mayor (something alluded to in the book), but while they elaborated on it they still left many important questions unanswered.
Smaug looked just plain awesome and is certainly one of the big bonus points of the movie. His hort comes almost close to what managers get as compensation these days when they are getting fired for running a business down. It is for that reason that I very much regret that even with Smaug they cut down the content of the book in favor of their own additions. In the book we have a much longer exchange of Bilbo and Smaug while Bilbo still wears the ring. They instead focus a lot more on extremely spectacular action scenes. Same as with the elves vs. orc scenes they are excellently done but make Smaug appear much less dangerous for his apparent inability to hurt even a single dwarf in spite of all his awesomeness. I also wish that they stopped the bad habbit to pretend that fire and heat only hurt if you are standing right in it. You don't need to stand in a flame to burn to death and if you (like Thorin) ever decide to do some rafting in a tin barrow on a river of liquid gold you are going to be toast while Thorin didn't even sweat.
I haven't said everything I could on the movie and admittedly I stressed the points of criticism in this review. In spite of all that I generally like the movie and don't regret having seen it in cinema. There are just some points which to me seem so obviously problematic that I wonder if these points were discussed among the makers of the movie and were deliberately accepted.


Malte279

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Having now read the preceding posts it turns out that we share some points of criticism WR though as a whole the movie was still okay with me. I suppose I may have gone to see it with less strictly defined expectations ;)
I also see where you are comming from with regard to the cliffhanger ending. However, if they had included the dragonfight and Bart's triumph they would have had almost only the battle of the five armies left for the third movie which probably would have been too little to work with while it would also bee rather tricky to find a sensible earlier point to cut off without leaving too much to the third movie.
Speaking of Bart by the way, he was one of the points I sort of glossed over by the "questions to be answered" line with regard to laketown. His arrest seemed too much of a generally interesting thing while him as one who stands up for "Les Miserables of laketown" is an addition which I think can be turned into something positive.


Nick22

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i recently watched the hobbit and it was better than the first part. ok beorn's role was cut away to very little, although the spiders were a nice togugh. adding the female charaxcter was imo necessary because tolkiens works had very few females- remember that the lotr was written in the style of the ancient myths like beowulf- predominantly male heros doing great things. so while the whole love triangle thing was a bit forced- and legolas is going to be the only one who makes it out of part 3- its understandable. the only question is of the number of company dead. in the book 3 died at the battle of 5 armies in the rankin bass film(rip Arthur Rankin) 7 of them died. if jackson is a stickler to the book, only 3 will die , but we'll see. i did like gandalf confronting the necromancer- and not surprisingly got his butt kicked and even got his staff destroyed.
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WeirdRaptor

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This was in no one better than the first part. At least the first film TRIED to stick with the book. Part two is just a mess.

And don't take that tone with me, Malte. I went in with such supposedly "strictly defined expectations" because Jackson promised us that everything from the book would be in the film and then he failed to live up to that promise on every level possible. They diminish Bilbo's character like no one else's business. How the hell did he last for sixty years with the Ring in his keeping if it was already effecting him to such a degree. The whole point was that the Ring was still mostly dorment when he got it and only became active again around the time he left The Shire for good. Almost every piece of humor or witty dialogue from the book was erased for more dire darkness as well.
The female elf is completely pointless and only serves for "grrl powr!" points.

Yeah, well, if having Bard kill Smaug leave too little for the third movie, then maybe there shouldn't be three movies. Ever think of that? They could have trimmed out all the unnecessary crap they invented, just stuck with the book, and had more than enough time to finish up the story. But no, they dropped the story's pants to the ground, bent it over a table, and stuffed a rusty crowbar up its ass and then moved it around like some grisly puppet to use at their convenience.

Tolkien is ten times the story-teller Hacker Hackson and his gang of morons will ever be. May their every endeaver be met with failure from now on. It's the least of what they deserve.

Wow, it's been a long time since I last hated a movie with this intensity.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf


Malte279

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I'm sorry you do. I do see why you do. I understand your point of view and nothing I said was meant to sound like I was "taking any tone" with you WR, so please don't vent at me.
I have pointed out many of the points of criticism which you have too and think I made it clear enough that I agree it could have been done better. I don't hate the movie with a passion though and I didn't even read beforehand whatever kind of promisses movie makers may have made about which I could hold a later grudge against them for not living up to promisses.


WeirdRaptor

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Okay. Sorry. The winking face made me think that there was more to your comment than there was. Sorry about that.

Here's the thing, though. The Hobbit is not a long book. It should not have been that difficult for Hacker Hackson to keep a lot closer to it. The fact that he's taken so many unnecessary deviations just shows that Hollywood was sucked all the integrity out of this once brilliant filmmaker. Or maybe he was never that brilliant to begin with, and like George Lucas, just got lucky once.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf


WeirdRaptor

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Here are some questions:

Did erasing everything that made Beorn an interesting and fun character add anything? How is the scene with him better than what we given in the book?
 
Did erasing everything that happened in Mirkwood prior to the dwarves' captor do anything for the movie?

How does exaggerating Bilbo's budding obsession with The Ring help the movie? How on earth did he last for sixty years with it in his keeping if he was already murderously attached to it? No one has given me an answer to that last question. In Lord of the Rings, they repeatedly said that the Ring was lying quiet in Bilbo's keeping and had only recently become more active. Well, it looked REALLY active in this movie, didn't it?

What did extending the barrel-river sequence add? Why couldn't they just float into Lake Town like in the book? How did this change benefit the movie's narrative?

Did the added subplot with Kili's wound bring anything to the film at all? It looked like they were just wasting more time to pad out the movie to me. Dissuade. I dare you.

How did cutting out all the witty banter between Bilbo and Smaug help anything other than further diminish Bilbo's character? Bilbo's supposed to be this spunky clever little man by that point, and that is not portrayed here at all. Never at any point did it feel like Bilbo was growing as a character.

How did over-extending the Smaug sequences help the movie? The only thing it did was make Smaug look like an incompetent fool, considering that the dwarves and Bilbo were out in the open every frikkin' step of the way? And how on earth did Thorin get the knuckle-brained idea in his head that gold would kill Smaug when a dragon's insides are hotter than a forge could ever be?

Do you see a single damn thing here that actually improved on the story? No, you don't. This film gutted a story that has lasted for almost a hundred years and maintained a strict status as a classic, loved the world over, in that entire time.

The only change they added that didn't make me want to fly over to New Zealand and strangle everyone who worked on this was the alternation with how the secret door worked. The last light of Durin's Day being moonlight prior to midnight was a somewhat clever change, but that was where it both began and ended.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf