Do you think Strut should get redemption?

[LittlefootAndAliTogether]

He seems all right, for the most part, but, on the other hand, it was his idea to throw Littlefoot off the Great Wall and it looked like he was the one that was going to strangle Chomper.  

Also, he never tried much to stop Ozzy's wicked behavior.  

On the other hand, he seems so sweet and lovable in a way.  

If he were to come back, should he be a bad guy still or become nice and live in the Great Valley as a leaf eater?  

It's pretty clear that Ozzy isn't likely to ever be nice, but Strut has a chance I think.

(As for what I'd like to do with Ozzy, well, Chomper needs to eat too.        )

[DarkHououmon]

I'm not entirely sure how well that would work. I mean, Strut was the one who came up with the idea to murder Littlefoot by tossing him off the Great Wall, and practically begged his brother. So that does show that Strut is capable of being rather nasty.

[Malte279]

Personally I am in kind of a split mind about Strut and a possible redemption of him.
I think it is not exactly viciousness as such that is working against him, but more of a mixture of a somewhat juvenile mind and an inability to stand up to his smarter yet more vicious brother. By nature I suppose Strut would be perfectly happy to feed on plants only.
The major issue that is working for a harsher view on Strut is indeed that it is not only his idea to throw Littlefoot down the Great Wall, but that he is literally begging his brother to do that. However, I think that in case of Strut it is not very likely that he has given a lot of thought to the consequences of this. He may have had his and his brother's own jumps (two) from a high rocks (which turned out relatively harmless for them) in mind when making the suggestion. In any case I have a hard time imagining Strut as gloating and laughing evily over the shattered remains of Littlefoot after he was dropped from the Great Wall; I don't think that his mind thought that far and I could almost see him as surprised or shocked at the result if his brother had actually dropped Littlefoot down the wall (while I am not sure if Strut's mind would then work in a way to develop a more complex sense of guilt or responsibility).
We do see Strut trying to calm his brother in an earlier scene when Ozzy is furious about the fact that "his egg" hatched. Strut is punished immediately by his brother for his attempt to calm him. Very likely Ozzy has tamed him to the point that Strut is very much under his control so long they are together.
In one story ("The Cold Time") I did include kind of a redemption for Strut who had some chance to talk to Ducky (in the absence of Ozzy) and later Ducky insists that the (less than enthusiastic others) help saving Strut from a fall to his doom. Strut later on allows them to get away (when he has them cornered) and on a second ocassion when he (more by accident than by intention) captures Ducky allows her to get away again.
However, I never really allowed Strut to "step out of his brother's shadow" and none of the redeeming acts he does in the story are done in the presence / awareness of Ozzy. I doubt Strut has the courage (maybe not even the will) to abandon his inferior status towards his brother which in turn would allow for him to ascribe all bad feelings he might have about his actions on a brother whom I assume he admires and loves in spite of everything.
Here is a little excerpt from the final meeting between Ducky and Strut in the aforementioned story. My English was still very, very much "no native writer" at the time and the scene is also bloodsugar-raisingly corny, but since it fits the context I'll just post the snippet:oops
The setting is a night before the day on which everyone knows the pursuing eggeaters are bound to catch up with the fleeing gang. Strut just sort of unintentionally caught Ducky and thought he had accidentally killed her:

Ducky opened her eyes and looked around disconcerted, apparently she had dreamed something nice so waking up was rather disillusioning for her. When she saw Strut’s face above herself she cast her mouth open as if she wanted to cry, but uttered nothing and seemed to be about to faint again. Strut shook Ducky slightly to keep her awake, so she became pretty dizzy and he said again and again enthusiastically: “You live! You live! You still live!” And with a sudden grinning he added: “Yep, yep, yep!” Now Ducky was far to amazed to faint. The eggeater’s behavior was a single big riddle to her, but it also took away nearly all of her fear. Nevertheless she didn’t dear to speak until the eggeater himself addressed her and answered her most important question immediately: “I won’t hurt you! You don’t have to be afraid!” “Where is your brother?”
“Over there.” Strut pointed back over his shoulder. “He’s sleeping. Are you alright? I thought already that you would be…” Ducky shook her head. Not only that this eggeater wasn’t going to hurt her, he even seemed to be sincerely worried about her. “It was only the fright”, she said. “Your brother”, said Ducky. “If he finds me…” “You must flee!” Strut interrupted her determinedly. The idea that Ozzy could find her, maybe even find out that he helped her was terrible. “Where are the others?” asked Ducky to know in which direction she should flee. Strut didn’t answer and didn’t look at her. “I mean my friends”, insisted Ducky, who didn’t understand what was the matter with the eggeater. “In which direction should they be?” Strut didn’t answer. “You have not caught them!?” cried Ducky suddenly. “Oh no, no, no, no, no!” And she seemed to be about to burst into tears. Strut calmed her hasty: “We haven’t caught them! Haven’t you heard us talking before?” Ducky remembered too now that she had eavesdropped herself that the eggeaters hadn’t caught her friends. “They should be somewhere this way”, said Strut and made a far-reaching movement in one direction with his arm. “At least that’s what I think. But Ducky…”, Strut hesitated for a moment and Ducky looked at him asking. “…don’t go to them!” Strut finished his sentence with a nearly imploring voice. “What?!” asked Ducky, for who Strut’s request was probably the most impossible on the world, frightened. It was visibly unpleasant for Strut to speak on, but he continued nevertheless without looking at Ducky: “Tomorrow we’ll catch up with your friends. They can’t escape us any longer. Tonight we nearly caught them, but even if they escaped us once more, tomorrow we’ll catch up with them. We are faster than you are, and there is no labyrinth of rocks in front of us anymore in which you can hide.” Ducky looked at Strut with big, dark eyes but she didn’t answer. He said the truth. “If you are with your friends tomorrow, then neither I nor anybody else can rescue you once more.” Strut gulped. “Ozzy is very furious.” Ducky breathed deeply. This eggeater, she felt that, was really sincere about her. But what he requested was completely impossible. Ducky shook her head. “No!” she said and shook her head again. “Oh no, no, no, no, no! I will go to them! I must go to them! Oh yes I must!” “Why?” asked Strut with deeply grieved voice. “They can’t escape us! If you go to them, then you are lost too!” Ducky kept quiet.
“Do you want to die?” asked Strut and he sounded nearly angry. How should he save this swimmer if she seemed so keen on not being saved. Ducky shook her head. “Of course not, no, no, no! But they are my friends, they are! And if you catch them and I would have to life knowing I did not do anything that might have saved them, to survive myself… Oh no, no, no!” Ducky fell silent and looked down. Strut fell silent too and for a long while nothing could be heard apart from the usual sounds of the nightly forest which had frightened Ducky so much before but that were in a strange way calming now. At last Strut sighed and shook his head slightly, but when he spoke then his voice sounded not only sad, but almost reverently. There was a kind of melancholy enthusiasm in his voice. “You want to sacrifice yourself for your friends? Die together with them?” Ducky shook her head again. “No I do not want that. But what makes you actually so sure that you’ll really catch us tomorrow? So far we have always outwitted you!" Strut looked at Ducky, who managed something like a sardonic grin, disconcerted. He didn’t really know if he should laugh about Ducky’s words and finally he tried to look offended, but he didn’t make that either. From where the little swimmer took her optimism was beyond him.
“Why are you doing that?” asked Strut again sadly, but this time she didn’t answer but only smiled slightly tired and shrugged her shoulders. “Do you never do anything without really knowing why?” Strut shook his head. “Then tell me why you help me!” Strut opened his mouth, but he couldn’t think of an answer. He shrugged only with his shoulders and when he noticed how similar his “answer” was to Ducky’s he put on a broad grinning that had little similarity to Ducky’s smiling. Ducky cast a look up and recognized for her relief through the sparsely leafy branches of the trees that the sky was still completely dark. Nevertheless she had to hurry to reach her friends before dawn. “I have to go now, oh yes, I have to!” said Ducky and looked up to Strut. He answered with gloomy mine: “Good luck!” “For you too!” answered Ducky and she felt pretty silly. Sure enough Strut was not the one in need of luck at the moment. “Thanks for everything said Ducky, and with that she turned round and disappeared in the darkness in the direction in which Strut supposed her friends to be. Strut sighed deeply, turned round then too and returned to the resting place where Ozzy was still sleeping soundly.

And here is an aquarelle picture (with a ridiculously undersized Ducky) which I did of that selfsame scene:

[Ducky123]

That is quite a good analysis there, Malte I, personally, believe that Strut is only acting the way he does because Ozzy is around. If Strut lived on his own, he'd feed himself with greenfood and be peaceful but, when with his brother, he has to act at least sort of alike him in order not to aggravate Ozzy.

OT:
Anyway, I don't think I've ever seen that picture of yours (unless my memory is fooling me). It's really nice (despite Ducky's liliputian size   ) It's also nice to be reminded of your great written stories

[LittlefootAndAliTogether]

Well, maybe Ozzy won't be around anymore.    This coulda happened for all we know.


 Strut: Do you think the Sharpteeth are gone?  
 Ozzy:  I don't know.
 (They spot a sharptooth shadow coming.)
  Strut: Ut oh.  They're coming.  (Moves to come out of their spot and run for it)
 Ozzy: (Throws Strut backward) I'm first!  I'm first!  I'm always first!  (Runs out)
Strut: (Noticing the shadow coming) I'm done for!
Ozzy:  So long Sharpteeth!  (Encounters Papa Sharptooth) No!  (It eaten)
(The two Sharpteeth then walk on, going along with Chomper.  Strut comes out when they are gone.)
Strut: (A bit sad) Stupid fool!  He was always so selfish!  I told him this whole egg thing was a bad idea!  (Sobs) He, he, he was going to let me die!  He didn't really love me!  I loved him but he never cared for me.  (Cries for a bit)  (Eventually stops crying) Well, there's only one thing to do now.  Get some green food.  (Heads off to get green food)


However, I'm wondering though, what would happen if Strut ever did stand up to Ozzy and try and do the right thing?  Do you think Ozzy would give in as he can't control his brother anymore or do you think it's possible that Ozzy might even go so far as to try and kill his own brother were Strut to side with the good guys and get in his way?

I know redemption for Ozzy seems about as unlikely as redemption for Sierra.   Personally, I think we'd see Dil and Ichy get redemption before Ozzy did.

So if Strut does get redemption, he may have to live life without and possibly an enemy of his own brother.   Could he do it?

Perhaps Strut falls in love with Ruby.  She'd help straighten him out.        

[DarkHououmon]

Perhaps Strut falls in love with Ruby.  She'd help straighten him out.        

Isn't Strut pretty old for Ruby? She's still a child, and there is a huge age difference, seeing that Strut is already an adult.

[rhombus]

Perhaps Strut falls in love with Ruby.  She'd help straighten him out.       

Isn't Strut pretty old for Ruby? She's still a child, and there is a huge age difference, seeing that Strut is already an adult.

The fact that they are different species would also complicate things to put it mildly.

[LittlefootAndAliTogether]

Perhaps Strut falls in love with Ruby. She'd help straighten him out.

Isn't Strut pretty old for Ruby? She's still a child, and there is a huge age difference, seeing that Strut is already an adult.

The fact that they are different species would also complicate things to put it mildly.

Well, Ovirpator and Strithimimus are pretty close.  


However, it was more of a wild idea of mine.  Originally, I was going to have Ruby marry a blue oviraptor named Ralph.  

Still, the Ozzy death scenario above seems pretty plausible.   That does sound like Ozzy and he's thrown his brother under the bus before to save his own skin.  He'd do it again.  

As for mixed species, I think that a Pterodactylus/Pteranodon marriage might work, well kinda.   As long as the flattooth doesn't mind his mate's disturbing eating habits, it might work.    

[DarkHououmon]

Well, Ovirpator and Strithimimus are pretty close.

No, they're not. They don't even belong in the same clade. Yes, they're both in the therapods, but that's about it.

This is an ovirapotr: http://cdn.dinosaur-world.com/feathered_di...if?rewrite=true

And this is a struthiomimus: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...hiomimus_BW.jpg

About the only thing that's similar is their body shape, kind of, but therapods in general share a similar body plan; it doesn't make them all so closely related they can interbreed. It's not simply appearance alone tells you how close an animal is to another; it's the innerworkings underneath, the DNA, all that. Oviraptor and struthiomimus do belong in the same suborder of theropods, but that's where their relation stops. Oviraptor belongs in the oviraptorsauria clade (includes other species like gigantoraptor, khaan, and caudipteryx) whle struthiomimus belonged in the ornithomimosauria clade (which includes species like gallimimus, deinocheirus, and ornithomimus).

It is true, if I remember right, that the oviraptorsaurias and ornithomimosaurias did share a common ancestor in the clade of maniraptora, but they had split off from each other and became no closer related to each other than say, a cat and a dog (who also branched off from the same ancestor).

As for mixed species, I think that a Pterodactylus/Pteranodon marriage might work, well kinda. As long as the flattooth doesn't mind his mate's disturbing eating habits, it might work.

Pterodactylus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pterodac...tyniuk_wiki.png
Pteranodon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pteranodon_scale.png

Somehow, I think diet isn't going to be their only problem. Pteranodons were quite large animals.

[LittlefootAndAliTogether]

Well, Ovirpator and Strithimimus are pretty close.

No, they're not. They don't even belong in the same clade. Yes, they're both in the therapods, but that's about it.

This is an ovirapotr: http://cdn.dinosaur-world.com/feathered_di...if?rewrite=true

And this is a struthiomimus: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...hiomimus_BW.jpg

About the only thing that's similar is their body shape, kind of, but therapods in general share a similar body plan; it doesn't make them all so closely related they can interbreed. It's not simply appearance alone tells you how close an animal is to another; it's the innerworkings underneath, the DNA, all that. Oviraptor and struthiomimus do belong in the same suborder of theropods, but that's where their relation stops. Oviraptor belongs in the oviraptorsauria clade (includes other species like gigantoraptor, khaan, and caudipteryx) whle struthiomimus belonged in the ornithomimosauria clade (which includes species like gallimimus, deinocheirus, and ornithomimus).

It is true, if I remember right, that the oviraptorsaurias and ornithomimosaurias did share a common ancestor in the clade of maniraptora, but they had split off from each other and became no closer related to each other than say, a cat and a dog (who also branched off from the same ancestor).

As for mixed species, I think that a Pterodactylus/Pteranodon marriage might work, well kinda. As long as the flattooth doesn't mind his mate's disturbing eating habits, it might work.

Pterodactylus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pterodac...tyniuk_wiki.png
Pteranodon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pteranodon_scale.png

Somehow, I think diet isn't going to be their only problem. Pteranodons were quite large animals.

Well, LBT doesn't always show accurate sizes on things.  Pterano should bigger than he is if your diagram was true in LBT universe.  

They appear to be pretty close in size in LBT.  The one that grabbed Ducky in film V is similar in size to Mama Flyer, though maybe her wingspan isn't as big as Mama Flyer.  

As for Strut, I think were Ozzy to die or Strut to see Ozzy for what he really is, Strut would go nice.  

[DarkHououmon]

Actually I am pretty sure that Pterano is pretty close to the right size in the series. When he's standing next to Mr. Threehorn, the size relations do look similiar to how large a human (which a pteranodon is close in size to, save for the large wingspan) would be compared to a triceratops. Maybe not 100% accurate, but close, if memory serves me right.

Also, just because LBT is not accurate with real life doesn't mean that any scenario and situation and such is going to fly or make sense. There's still rules and limitations that world provides. You can make a story unbelievable to the readers even in a world that isn't really accurate to begin with.

A cross species relationship can be handled in LBT I think, but it depends on how it's handled. I've seen it done unrealistically before. If it's done carefully and taking issues into consideration (for instance, no, not even in the unrealistic LBT world can, say, a flyer and a swimmer have a baby), then it can work and potentially be a good story.

[LittlefootAndAliTogether]

Actually I am pretty sure that Pterano is pretty close to the right size in the series. When he's standing next to Mr. Threehorn, the size relations do look similiar to how large a human (which a pteranodon is close in size to, save for the large wingspan) would be compared to a triceratops. Maybe not 100% accurate, but close, if memory serves me right.

Also, just because LBT is not accurate with real life doesn't mean that any scenario and situation and such is going to fly or make sense. There's still rules and limitations that world provides. You can make a story unbelievable to the readers even in a world that isn't really accurate to begin with.

A cross species relationship can be handled in LBT I think, but it depends on how it's handled. I've seen it done unrealistically before. If it's done carefully and taking issues into consideration (for instance, no, not even in the unrealistic LBT world can, say, a flyer and a swimmer have a baby), then it can work and potentially be a good story.

Well, actually the marriage doesn't end up lasting in my story.  And it's not because the mother is the Sharptooth either.  It's because she's self-centered and her mate soon learns that whom she really loves the most is herself.  Eventually, he gets fed up with her and she knows he's close to leaving and taking their son with him.  To stop this, she lures her mate away in the dead of night and kills and eats him, tells her son that Daddy was killed by Leaf Eaters and that daddy was a Sharptooth too.  (Her son was young enough that he wouldn't be able to spot her lies.)   So the son hates leaf eaters for years, even trying to kill and eat Ducky at one point, but finds the Gang of Five and eventually starts to have a change of heart.  The Gang of Five eventually find out what he is but they like him anyway.  (He'd been pretending to be a leaf eater, and, as he liked Tree Stars, it worked.)  

(Note: I'm not talking about Ruby and Strut.  I'm talking about a Pteranodon and a Pterodactylus.   It would be nice to bring in a known Sharptooth flyer villain again, one more sinister than Ichy.   I still don't know what Sierra is in LBT world but like to think of him as an evil leaf eater as all the villains would be Sharpteeth if he and Rinkus were actually Sharpteeth.  (HYp, Nodd, Mutt, and Pterano aren't truly villains.)