Near Death at SeaWorld

[Mr Wonk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQloiLMRimM...ture=g-logo-xit

Serious aggression incident by the killer whale Kasatka against her SeaWorld San Diego trainer Ken Peters in 2006. So should we lock up "wild" animals just for Entertainment?

[Littlefoot Fan]

I think it really depends on the animal and what kind of show it is. Something like this is going just a bit too far in my opinion. That guy was taking quite a big risk jumping into a tank with a killer whale and this video just proves that you cannot fully 100% trust a wild animal.

But on the whole subject of "is it cruel to have things like zoos and animal shows", I don't think it's cruel at all provided they are being taken care of properly. After all, if we never had these things, how would any of us ever get the chance to see with our own eyes some of nature's most beautiful and intelligent creatures?

[Ludichris1]

Oooh that. You know what's really scary? I watched that EXACT video yesterday, without knowing about this thread  :blink: !

Anyway, it seems tons of animals are locked up for Entertainment. Your question is quite broad lol. From zoo animals to shows-- even pets and refuges like in Kenya for example. If you ask me, if animals weren't interesting or entertaining, then otherwise people wouldn't care about any of watching/having any of these things. But anyway, I think it is actually a good idea to have an animal for shows. You just have to do it very carefully, and it's really hard. For example, if I had a ton of money, and I wanted to make a killer whale show, I'd make sure they could swim in a absolutely huge area, with absolutely huge wildlife and plants already in it. And the trainers I would make interact with the whales more, rather than just train, train, train. Also, having shows everyday at so-and-so time is a terrible idea. Sure, animals like mental stimulation and playing, but when it's the same old thing over and over and constantly...

[Ghostfishe]

I don't think that it's cruel just to use an animal for entertainment IF it's happy and healthy and its needs are actually being met. But I don't believe that orcas' needs are being met in captivity. The kind of setup you see at SeaWorld seems to be working okay for dolphins, but dolphins have drastically different behavior in the wild from orcas.

Bottlenose dolphins live in "fission-fusion" groups in the wild. They aren't all related, and they come and go as they please, kinda like human society. But orcas are extremely social and close knit. Even the males stay with their mother's pod their entire life. Studies of orca vocalizations even show that distinct groups have their own "dialects"--different pods don't make the same noises, or the same combinations of noises. Even when they are captive bred there are still "social deficiencies". I remember that one of the details mentioned about one of the "aggressive" orcas was that they'd been keeping him totally solitary, no other orcas around at all, just the trainers when they decided to interact with him.    For an animal that social, that's really, really sad. I don't know that keeping a parrot or even a dog in similar conditions would be considered humane.

The effect on their physical health alone should be an obvious indication that something is very wrong with how people are handling their care. The norm is for captive animals to live longer lives than their wild counterparts--this is true for birds, wolves, cats, ungulates, reptiles, etc.--but from what I've read, captivity apparently shaves decades off of an orca's life. If an animal that can live to be 60-70 years old in the wild, is only surviving 20 on average... what is going on?

[EggStealerGirl]

Oh, snap! :blink:

I'm going there with my family later today... :unsure:

But, I pretty much have to agree with what Littlefoot Fan said.

[Belmont2500]

So should we lock up "wild" animals just for Entertainment?

Hell no. Send them all to sanctuarys or reserves.

Still, it isn't cruel when the animal is well taken care of, has a huge enviroment to roam etc.

[StrutEggStealer]

Oh, for heaven's sakes. Common sense, people, no matter how long you have worked with an orca, no matter if you're their 'favorite person' NEVER EVER jump into a swimming pool with one.
Raised in captivity or not, it's still a wild animal, and even though it didn't grow up in the wild, it takes several generations of breeding to domesticate animals, and cannot be done simply with the success of raising a single generation in captivity
There used to be a captive polar bear where I volunteered at a museum. Her parents were captives as well, so it was the only life she'd ever known, but still, the keepers never set foot inside her cage as she was over seven feet high standing up and several hundred pounds. Even while feeding her, they had to pour the food through the gaps in the bars of her cage. They took precautions. I mean, she wasn't an aggressive bear, but she was a wild animal.
I don't think aggressive animals should be picked on. All animals are aggressive, they all just have varying degrees of it. But lock them up for attacking an human? People should take more precautions. Sure, it's a pretty cute whale, but, it can still kill you.

[Petrie85]

No they should try and set them free in my opinion. To me that is being cruel to animal's. Keeping them locked up like that. So I do feel a bit sorry for the guy but not really. It was is own damn fault for getting into the tank in the first place.

[Vilstrup]

Actually, you couldn't really call that for an attack, nor aggressive nature. If an Orca wants to attack you, you're pretty much dead. A single grown up Orca can kill a Great White Shark, so why on earth would an Orca being aggressive not maul the traineer?

The answer, I think, is that Orca's are playfull. They'll play with their prey in the wild, and most of the tricks they learn, are for fun. It's game to them. So, naturally, they would have an idea, which by our standards are way to wild. It's like having a child, who thinks it's a good idea to go on a collision course with another person while on ski. There's plenty of examples of Orcas in captivity, who suddenly change tactic, because they have an idea.
Here's an older "attack" by an Orca. Killer Whale Attacks Girl

As for keeping them in captivity?
I agree with the prospect of having a proper habitat for them. In Denmark, we have porpoises in captivity (the only I might add in the whole world), and the habitat for them, is an inclosed space, where the boundaries are nets. Which mean, the water in the habitat is the same as in the actually ocean, and different wild life can enter the habitat. In a period they had a problem with the danish Almindelige Ulk, Myoxocephalus scorpius, which has small spikes along its gills. So naturally, when the porpoises try to bite on them, they get stuck in their mouth. And then the traineers has to fetch them out of

[Kor]

Considering how large and strong orcas are compared to humans it makes sense that even one being playful can cause injuries, including severe ones.

[Vilstrup]

Indeed Kor, and personally I think most people are overreacting when something like this happens. The Orcas of Seaworld are being take care of, and they do not get stressed or sick.
However, one does sometimes wish one could actually see them up close in the wild, rather than jumping around, performing tricks like it was a circus show.

[Kor]

Yes, most humans do tend to over react, I've noticed.  Or at least those who get the most publicity.

[Vilstrup]

Agreed

[BigFriendlyGun9000]

I'm okay with animals being "locked up" as long as they have ample space and aren't mistreated. But as some have said, common sense says that entering a tank with a 7000 lb orca that can kill a man when it's being playful is dangerous.

[Ghostfishe]

The Orcas of Seaworld are being take care of, and they do not get stressed or sick.

If that were true, I'd be happy and fine with places like SeaWorld having them. But like I mentioned... we can already see that that isn't quite the case. Problems like the "folded fin" are usually overlooked, but it's pretty well known that the tanks aren't big enough for them. And, again, they suffer greatly shortened lifespans. We can't go up to an orca and say "hey, do you feel stressed out?" but it is obviously impacting an animal's health when it doesn't even live half as long as it could expect to in a wild environment. Even without dredging up specific incidents, IMO that's more than enough reason to take notice.

I'm sure the SeaWorld folks are being honest when they say that they do their best to keep the animals healthy and happy. The problem is that "their best" simply may not be enough--and if it isn't enough, they should take other steps to make sure that they are not holding orcas in an inadequate environment, or stop showing orcas until they can. That's basically what we expect from folks who keep domestic pets.

[Vilstrup]

If that were true, I'd be happy and fine with places like SeaWorld having them. But like I mentioned... we can already see that that isn't quite the case. Problems like the "folded fin" are usually overlooked, but it's pretty well known that the tanks aren't big enough for them. And, again, they suffer greatly shortened lifespans. We can't go up to an orca and say "hey, do you feel stressed out?" but it is obviously impacting an animal's health when it doesn't even live half as long as it could expect to in a wild environment. Even without dredging up specific incidents, IMO that's more than enough reason to take notice.

I'm sure the SeaWorld folks are being honest when they say that they do their best to keep the animals healthy and happy. The problem is that "their best" simply may not be enough--and if it isn't enough, they should take other steps to make sure that they are not holding orcas in an inadequate environment, or stop showing orcas until they can. That's basically what we expect from folks who keep domestic pets.

Can't argue with that.