As good as this film is...

[DarkHououmon]

Look at the situation from Cera’s perspective: She is following an individual she barely knows, of species she has been taught not to associate with, to a place she has never heard of, following directions that were given to him by someone else, in the hopes of finding her family again. It doesn’t sound very promising, but it’s better than aimlessly wandering a wasteland stalked by Sharptooth. After enduring an escalating series of hardships, however, the prospect of continuing to follow this leader becomes considerably less appealing. Eventually, she decides that she’s had enough, and wants to leave to find her own way, but when she attempts to do so, he gets in her way and tries to stop her. In her position, wouldn’t you be angry, too?

Cera’s comment may have been much more personally hurtful, but from her point of view, Littlefoot was being overly pushy in trying to keep her from leaving the group, with his only argument being that his mother told him to go the way he was leading them. Cera already has a contemptuous opinion of longnecks in general, and for all we know, she isn’t even aware that Littlefoot’s mother is dead. (She saw her being wounded, but that does not equate to knowing that she died.)

I do not deny that Cera’s comment towards Littlefoot’s mother was insensitive, to say the least, but I don’t think she should be vilified for making it either. I reiterate my previous assertion that I do not blame either Littlefoot or Cera for behaving the way they did.

Yes, I agree as well. I also don't think Cera knew Littlefoot's mother was dead. Using the past term "was" does not equate to someone who has deceased. There's nothing to suggest Littlefoot told Cera anything. We only know he told Ducky about the treestar his mom gave him and that's it.

Littlefoot and Cera are both just children and are vulnerable to flaws exhibited by children, such as tempter tantrums. Combine that with wandering through a barren landscape that's probably hot by day, cold by night, rarely eating or getting anything to drink, climbing up immense obstacles, being stalked by a predator.. they were bound to snap sooner or later I'd think.

[Malte279]

Honestly, I think that assuming that Cera was totaly unaware of Littlefoot's mother's fate because we never actually see a scene in which Littlefoot laid this out to her (she had after all at least seen the wounding of his mother) is really stretching what is likely and plausible quite a bit.
I think this discussion has become rather emotionally charged with both Littlefoot and Cera being to some degree forcibly put into positive light depending on what people think.
The original trigger though was weather or not the outcome of the fight should have been different. One can understand (though not necessarily approve of) the actions of both characters for different reasons.
Little has been written so far about the question of the might have beens if the fight had turned out differently.

[jedi472]

That's true Malte. I've been thinking, if Littlefoot had taken the upper hand, would he even have had the heart to strike a finishing blow?

[Pangaea]

Please forgive me if I created any hard feelings. I didn’t intend to. (Did what I said at the beginning of my last post come off as rude? I’m sorry. )

I do not wish to disrupt (or at least distract from) this topic any more than I already have, but I would like to address the last comments relating to my posts before I abandon the subject (if that is what is desired).

Cera had heard of the Great Valley. If she hadn't, then Littlefoot told her about it offscreen because I don't recall her ever asking about it or having to be told about it. After all, her dad was heading there, too. He probably would have told her where they were going as well as the trip being long and dangerous from the beginning.

I am certain that Littlefoot mentioned the Great Valley to Cera at some point; I meant that it is possible that Cera’s parents didn’t say anything to her about it. After all, Ducky’s parents apparently didn’t tell her they were going to the Great Valley. And it would appear that Littlefoot himself hardly knew anything about the valley (despite spending his entire childhood up to that point traveling towards it) until he asked his mother about it. Also, while their canonicity may be debatable, the books based on the movie show that Littlefoot is the only member of the gang with knowledge of the Great Valley; Cera and the others are unaware of it.

Honestly, I think that assuming that Cera was totaly unaware of Littlefoot's mother's fate because we never actually see a scene in which Littlefoot laid this out to her (she had after all at least seen the wounding of his mother) is really stretching what is likely and plausible quite a bit.

Yeah...on second thought, maybe it is a bit of a stretch. I’ll admit that I added that statement a bit extemporaneously; I considered it a possibility that Cera had not been aware of Littlefoot’s mother’s death, but I didn’t think it over that much. So never mind.

To clarify my position one last time, I believe that Littlefoot and Cera are both at fault, but given the circumstances, I understand why they behaved the way they did.

Frankly, I don’t have much to say about a possible alternative outcome of Littlefoot and Cera’s fight. As I indicated earlier, Kacie already expressed essentially the same opinion I have (as well as making several points that I probably would not have thought of myself, but that I agree with completely).

[Cancerian Tiger]

There's just so much wrong with this statement that I don't even know where to start. So let me see if I got this right: It's okay for Cera to insult Littlefoot's mother, who, as WeirdRaptor pointed out, DIED right in front of him! But when Littlefoot attacks Cera for her incredibly cruel comment(Calling his own deceased mother stupid) then he's a coward? I can tell you that if my own mother had died and someone called her stupid, I'd react very similiar to how Littlefoot did. He had every right to stand up for his mother! He was an emotionally traumatized little kid who watched his mom die right before his eyes! Then someone comes along and says "Well she was a stupid Longneck too!" You expect Littlefoot to just sit down and talk about it with her?! HA!

Okay.  I'm gonna try to handle this as calmly as I possibly can at this point.  First of all, I did NOT ever say Cera was right in her actions nor did I support what she did.  That's a crock of *censored* as far as I'm concerned.  I see my post was quoted in your post...and there's nothing that says I said Cera was right.  To say I even THINK Cera was right is a downright load of bullcrap .

I'm not saying Cera was right, but I'm certainly not saying Littlefoot was right either.  I can't believe how some here seem to glorify Littlefoot's aggressiveness toward Cera :blink:.  Ever hear of "Actions speak louder than words!" or "Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me!"?  Sure, words can hurt emotionally.  Having been the kid who was constantly insulted and picked on day in and day out throughout childhood, I would know <_<!  Words can only do so much harm to a person, but not what fists can do.  She may have really struck a sensitive nerve, but that gave him no right to act the way he did.  Which brings me to this next part...

You expect Littlefoot to just sit down and talk about it with her?! HA!

What the hell is that supposed to mean?  Read my post again, and you'll find I did not single out any member and speak so rudely to them.  What did I do to receive such a response :huh:?  State my opinion?  That's pretty sad when I did not attack anybody's views to begin with .
   

WeirdRaptor brought up another good point: Littlefoot tried to end the fight. He tried to walk away but of course Cera has to get the final hit in when all Littlefoot was trying to do was walk away. And then near the end of the movie, Littlefoot actually welcomes her back with open arms(Err...paws). If I were Littlefoot, I probably wouldn't have been so quick to accept her back. In fact, she should have been very damn grateful that he was so willing to put up with all the abuse she gave him. CERA was the immature one, not Littlefoot.

If anybody, it is LITTLEFOOT who should be grateful Cera even saved his a** after what he did.  Tell me this: If somebody said somethin' that was hurtful and ya beat the crap out of 'em, what is one good reason for him or her to come back and help ya out, besides for the sake of preventing loss of life (after all, the others were in the same pickle as Littlefoot)?

I do not support either characters' actions, but I remain in my opinion that Littlefoot's actions were more severe.  By the way, if I attacked ANYBODY in this post, it was unintentional and I apologize already.  No further comments for now .

[DarkHououmon]

You expect Littlefoot to just sit down and talk about it with her?! HA!

What the hell is that supposed to mean?  Read my post again, and you'll find I did not single out any member and speak so rudely to them.  What did I do to receive such a response :huh:?  State my opinion?  That's pretty sad when I did not attack anybody's views to begin with .

I agree. I think that comment was out of line; there was no reason to say it, especially since you were only stating your opinion and not directly attacking anyone's opinion.

Personally, I can't help but feel I'm responsible for this debate. When I had posted my disagreement with babidikrakenguard's statement of making Littlefoot the winner, I hadn't intended on sparking such a heated debate. This topic seems to have turned from discussing what changes we'd like to see in the movie into just talking about the fight between Littlefoot and Cera. I apologize.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to move these posts into a separate topic, or just cease this discussion altogether.

[Animeboye]

Alright I was not going to bring this up. In my last post I was going to but I told myself "Just don't." Now I'm going to. The reason I'm so defensive towards Littlefoot in this is because it reminds me of something that happened last year at school. One of my friends (now ex-friend) had fallen in the hallway and cut his finger(wasn't bleeding, wasn't a deep cut) and he was whining about it when it wasn't even bad. So I told him "Big deal. My dad had a hernia last month and that hurts way more than a little cut." So then he just plain blurts out "Well I don't care". That had made me so mad, that I just said "What the **** do you know?! You don't know **** about what my dad went through, you little ****!" And I was really close to smacking him halfway across the face but instead me and one of my other friends(Who I'm still close friends with) just walked away. Now granted my dad is alive and well but I'm still horrified over what I saw. Yeah it happened a year ago but that's not something you easily forget. Seeing my dad in so much pain, screaming at the top of his lungs was emotionally traumatizing for me. JUST like how Littlefoot watching his mom die was traumatizing for him.

This is a very sensitive topic for me. Right now I'm so angry my whole body's shaking. I don't care if my ex-friend didn't know of my dad's hernia and I don't care if Cera didn't know Littlefoot's mom died. Simple fact is that you DON'T insult someone else's parents! Especially to their face! Think about it: What if I said your mothers were stupid? Wouldn't you want to hit me for that(Not that I ever WOULD say something like that, it's just an example).

Look, I'm fine with you not agreeing with me. After all, that's what makes discussion so intresting. Hearing others' points of views. However, what made me attack your opinion was you calling Littlefoot a coward! Was he being pushy towards Cera? Yes. But maybe he was worried that something bad would happen to her if she took her own way. I don't think that warranted his being both verbally and physically attacked.

[WeirdRaptor]

We all aware that Littlefoot wasn't in the right, either, Tiger. You were just unfair to him. I notice that you failed to comment on the fact that he is just a kid and a traumatized one at that. I repeat, how can we expect adult behavior from him after a certain point when none of his issues had been properly dealt with at that point.
Yes, actions may speak louder than words, but the "sticks and stones" saying has always been a bunch of bull. Words can hurt every bit as much as sticks and stones, but in their own way. That is why they are more powerful than action. Cera took horrible words and attacked Littlefoot with them.

Littlefoot and company saved her from the pachys that were trying to hurt her sometime between the the final showdown with the Sharptooth and the fight, remember? He helped save her life. If anything, she's the one who should be grateful she was welcomed back with open paws because she owed him big after that.
No, beating the crap out of someone who says mean things to you isn't right, but try getting a hurt and stressed child to understand that. You are being very critical of his actions. You seem to be forgetting he was a CHILD who was detrieved of any guidance at the moment. There were no adults to act adult-like in the situation to defuse is. Petrie and Ducky were too small, and Spike was too scared. That left the quick tempered Cera and himself.

You didn't attack anyone, Tiger. Rest assured on that.
I'm just shocked at how negative you are towards Littlefoot. Yes, he made a mistake, but man, you sure took harsh stance on the matter. Its like Animeboye said, you DO NOT insult another person's parents, especially not to their face, and especially not when said parent had died right in front of that person or went through some bad situation. Its emotionally damaging, and Littlefoot, aside from one encounter with Rooter, had no adults around to help him cope with what happened. For the sake of his promise to his mother to survive and make the valley and for the sake of his newfound friends, he was holding it together. He was under premendous amounts of stress day in and day out. Amounts of stress that adults would crack from, but he still held on. Then Cera in all her infinite wisdom started pressing all the wrong bottoms. A little compassion for Littlefoot's side of the story might be a little warranted.
As animeboye said, yes, he was pushy, but they were in a barren wasteland where a predator could be lurking anywhere looking for an easy meal. A alone easy meal, like going off on her lonesome would have been. I think Littlefoot was just a little justified in being pushy right then.

Like I said before, I have a brother who is no longer among the living. If anyone said something terrible like that about him I don't know what I would do, but it wouldn't be pretty. I repeat, insulting family is something you just DO NOT DO.

[Pangaea]

Can we PLEASE all calm down and/or change the subject? I REALLY don't want to see this thread deleted because of flaring tempers.

[Cancerian Tiger]

Perhaps I was too harsh on Littlefoot.  That's all I have to say about this.  I feel I am responsible for this thread taking a negative turn.  Like Pangaea said, I don't want to see this thread get deleted either, and I will keep myself out of this until the original subject of this thread returns.  This was originally a constructive discussion that has turned into tempers flaring.

[RWB]

The reason I'm so defensive towards Littlefoot in this is because it reminds me of something that happened last year at school. One of my friends (now ex-friend) had fallen in the hallway and cut his finger(wasn't bleeding, wasn't a deep cut) and he was whining about it when it wasn't even bad. So I told him "Big deal. My dad had a hernia last month and that hurts way more than a little cut." So then he just plain blurts out "Well I don't care". That had made me so mad, that I just said "What the **** do you know?! You don't know **** about what my dad went through, you little ****!" And I was really close to smacking him halfway across the face but instead me and one of my other friends(Who I'm still close friends with) just walked away. Now granted my dad is alive and well but I'm still horrified over what I saw. Yeah it happened a year ago but that's not something you easily forget. Seeing my dad in so much pain, screaming at the top of his lungs was emotionally traumatizing for me. JUST like how Littlefoot watching his mom die was traumatizing for him.

Don't tell me you seriously dropped a friend over this.

"I don't care" is NOT an insult, it is just pretty rude.

If your friend was hurt, and your reaction is "Well, my dad had it worse so shut up you whiny little"... That is an insult. An obvious one. "I don't care" is a perfectly reasonable response- if anything it's a polite one.

Let's say I cut my finger off. I am in pain from it and say it hurts. You, instead of giving me some support(LIKE A FRIEND SHOULD) say "Well, my dad got two fingers cut off and that's worse, so shut up."

Do I care if your father was in pain then when I'm in pain now and he ISN'T?

Probably not, and you use him as an excuse to INSULT me for saying that I'm in pain. Yes, your situation was a bit more extreme, but the same principle applies.

 

Don't be insensitive to others if you can't handle a civil if not very nice reponse.

This is a very sensitive topic for me. Right now I'm so angry my whole body's shaking. I don't care if my ex-friend didn't know of my dad's hernia and I don't care if Cera didn't know Littlefoot's mom died. Simple fact is that you DON'T insult someone else's parents!

 

Frankly, you insulted him and got a civil response back.

Cera actually gave littlefoot a highly hurtful comment that was only meant to be mean.

You're situation aren't even alike.




If this person is still willing to be your friend, I say you should reconcile. He's the victim here and you're the one that was mean to him, not the other way around.

[Malte279]

^ You don't have the competence (nor does anyone else) to edit the messages of anyone else.
While the discussion got a bit out of hand resulting in a couple of somewhat one-sided and emotionally charged interpretations of the scene there were mercifully no personal attacks.
I think the topic in general is quite interesting and if tempers calm down a bit I think it would be interesting to continue with not so much focus on a moral "who was more at fault?" kind of question.
Since this thread is originally about what could have been made different about the original movie, what is it that you would have changed about the scene (if anything) and about the further course of the movie?

[RWB]

^ You don't have the competence (nor does anyone else) to edit the messages of anyone else.
While the discussion got a bit out of hand resulting in a couple of somewhat one-sided and emotionally charged interpretations of the scene there were mercifully no personal attacks.
I think the topic in general is quite interesting and if tempers calm down a bit I think it would be interesting to continue with not so much focus on a moral "who was more at fault?" kind of question.
Since this thread is originally about what could have been made different about the original movie, what is it that you would have changed about the scene (if anything) and about the further course of the movie?

Not that- I meant I would edit my own post. The quoting system is kind of dysfunctional here, I much prefer when the quote actually appears in the box you're writing in with the quote tags attached.

[DarkHououmon]

^ You don't have the competence (nor does anyone else) to edit the messages of anyone else.
While the discussion got a bit out of hand resulting in a couple of somewhat one-sided and emotionally charged interpretations of the scene there were mercifully no personal attacks.
I think the topic in general is quite interesting and if tempers calm down a bit I think it would be interesting to continue with not so much focus on a moral "who was more at fault?" kind of question.
Since this thread is originally about what could have been made different about the original movie, what is it that you would have changed about the scene (if anything) and about the further course of the movie?

Yeah, I'd like to see this topic continue without the heated tempers myself. Let's stop this debate and continue on with what this topic is actually about.

As for me, I don't think I've stated what I'd like to change in this movie yet. Other than probably putting the cut scenes back in the movie, I don't think there's anything I'd change. For me, the movie is fine the way it is.

[Malte279]

^ My mistake. I never used the quote function to answer a message.
Anyway everyone who would have done the quarrel scene between Cera and Littlefoot differently, how would you have changed it?

[Animeboye]

The reason I'm so defensive towards Littlefoot in this is because it reminds me of something that happened last year at school. One of my friends (now ex-friend) had fallen in the hallway and cut his finger(wasn't bleeding, wasn't a deep cut) and he was whining about it when it wasn't even bad. So I told him "Big deal. My dad had a hernia last month and that hurts way more than a little cut." So then he just plain blurts out "Well I don't care". That had made me so mad, that I just said "What the **** do you know?! You don't know **** about what my dad went through, you little ****!" And I was really close to smacking him halfway across the face but instead me and one of my other friends(Who I'm still close friends with) just walked away. Now granted my dad is alive and well but I'm still horrified over what I saw. Yeah it happened a year ago but that's not something you easily forget. Seeing my dad in so much pain, screaming at the top of his lungs was emotionally traumatizing for me. JUST like how Littlefoot watching his mom die was traumatizing for him.

Don't tell me you seriously dropped a friend over this.

"I don't care" is NOT an insult, it is just pretty rude.

If your friend was hurt, and your reaction is "Well, my dad had it worse so shut up you whiny little"... That is an insult. An obvious one. "I don't care" is a perfectly reasonable response- if anything it's a polite one.

Let's say I cut my finger off. I am in pain from it and say it hurts. You, instead of giving me some support(LIKE A FRIEND SHOULD) say "Well, my dad got two fingers cut off and that's worse, so shut up."

Do I care if your father was in pain then when I'm in pain now and he ISN'T?

Probably not, and you use him as an excuse to INSULT me for saying that I'm in pain. Yes, your situation was a bit more extreme, but the same principle applies.

 

Don't be insensitive to others if you can't handle a civil if not very nice reponse.

This is a very sensitive topic for me. Right now I'm so angry my whole body's shaking. I don't care if my ex-friend didn't know of my dad's hernia and I don't care if Cera didn't know Littlefoot's mom died. Simple fact is that you DON'T insult someone else's parents!

 

Frankly, you insulted him and got a civil response back.

Cera actually gave littlefoot a highly hurtful comment that was only meant to be mean.

You're situation aren't even alike.




If this person is still willing to be your friend, I say you should reconcile. He's the victim here and you're the one that was mean to him, not the other way around.

No what made me stop being his friend was that he started spreading rumors about both me and these girls I was good friends with. Also because he always had to butt in to my business. He always would have a problem if I ever talked with one of my other friends. I forgave him over the whole "dad" incident but I didn't forgive him for this because he has done both those things on numerous occasions. Me and these girls have given him numerous chances. We told him this year that we were going to give him one more chance and he blew that one too.

RWB, don't even talk as if you know me. Because you don't. Had he broken a limb or actually cut OFF one of his fingers, then yeah, I would have stayed there and helped. A small cut, which is barely noticeable, is NOTHING to whine about! I get cuts all the time. I've gotten papercuts which sting like the blazes but you know what I do for those? I slap a band aid on those cuts, and get back to my business. That's all you have to do. Nothing to whine about. Sorry I'm so "mean and heartless" for not crying over a tiny cut. I didn't feel bad for him because I've seen way worse. My dad had a hernia, my best friend's older sister had a seizure, and another of my friends broke his arm in gym class. And you know what? I felt realy bad for all three of them. I can't even begin to imagine what either a hernia, a seizure(Apparently I had one as a child), or a broken limb feels like. And truth be told, I really don't want to.

I can't believe this topic went from what you would change in the movie, to Littlefoot and Cera, to the personal life of Animeboye. May I suggest maybe locking this topic?

[RWB]

No what made me stop being his friend was that he started spreading rumors about both me and these girls I was good friends with. Also because he always had to butt in to my business. He always would have a problem if I ever talked with one of my other friends. I forgave him over the whole "dad" incident but I didn't forgive him for this because he has done both those things on numerous occasions. Me and these girls have given him numerous chances. We told him this year that we were going to give him one more chance and he blew that one too.

That, on the other hand, is a very valid reason to end a friendship. It's just the Ex-friend used together with all the rest that made this sound like the deciding factor.

RWB, don't even talk as if you know me. Because you don't. Had he broken a limb or actually cut OFF one of his fingers, then yeah, I would have stayed there and helped.

That is not how you made it sound. All I have to go by is how you talk on the internet, and if you come off as being insensitive, I can only judge you from that impression. You might be the nicest guy I ever met if I get to know you, but that's hard to to do through a single post on an internet forum.

A small cut, which is barely noticeable, is NOTHING to whine about! I get cuts all the time. I've gotten papercuts which sting like the blazes but you know what I do for those? I slap a band aid on those cuts, and get back to my business.

That's all you have to do. Nothing to whine about. Sorry I'm so "mean and heartless" for not crying over a tiny cut. I didn't feel bad for him because I've seen way worse.

A non-bleeding wound can be worse than a bleeding one, just saying.

Still, I agree that he was whiny. I would have said that he should stop whining too.

You should still just have said "get over it/yourself". No need to throw your daddy's hernia into the discussion. To tell someone to stop whining, you should never ever do it with a comparison that is obviously not in his favor- it will provoke a retaliation. Just stay with "Get over yourself.".

Let me put this in a quasi-psychological angle.


Your friend gets a new computer and boasts about it.
Your dad got a better new computer last week, is your answer. As if simply to outmuscle his point.  

I don't care about your daddy's new computer, I care about mine.

I know it's not the same thing as pain, but the same thing applies, psychologically. He sees your comment as a way to one-up him, even if that is not the intention.
Thus the immature "I don't care" response.

Your comment becomes a boast, even if that's not the intended purpose. See why I thought your first comment made you look insensitive?

  My dad had a hernia, my best friend's older sister had a seizure, and another of my friends broke his arm in gym class.
And you know what? I felt realy bad for all three of them. I can't even begin to imagine what either a hernia, a seizure(Apparently I had one as a child), or a broken limb feels like. And truth be told, I really don't want to.

I say you should try to keep from having anything like that happen, too. I cracked my wrist once, and the pain I felt was something I never ever want to feel again. Even moving it was excruciating for more than a week afterwards.

And there's no need to lock the thread, just to get back on topic. ^^

[DarkHououmon]

The topic could still be saved, I think, if the flaring tempers would stop and we return to the original discussion at hand rather than snapping at one another. Let's just calm down.

As for Malte's question regarding the quarrel, I can't say I can think of anything that I'd like to change. I feel it worked out fine the way it did. But perhaps another outcome may have been better. I'm not sure, though.

[Malte279]

I can't believe this topic went from what you would change in the movie, to Littlefoot and Cera, to the personal life of Animeboye. May I suggest maybe locking this topic?

No, I am not going to lock a thread on a basically interesting topic just because a few members can't stay civil.
This thread is being monitored closely and if there are any board rules being broken then there will be the according intervention.
Now I strongly suggest to calm down, get back to the topic, and settle personal quarrels either reasonably or at a different place. Get a grip and back to topic :angry:

[jedi472]

Ok, back on topic.

So yeah, I probably wouldn't change too much, since without Littlefoot and Cera's quarrel, Cera coming in and securing the win against Sharptooth wouldn't have been nearly as powerful. Besides, I think it made for some good conflict between the characters.