The Gang of Five
Beyond the Mysterious Beyond => Hobbies and Recreation => Computer and Electronics => Topic started by: action9000 on January 05, 2016, 04:41:44 PM
-
Looks like Intel's next-gen enthusiast line CPU specs have been leaked. They're due for release Q1 2016 and there's some REALLY nice stuff coming out.
http://wccftech.com/intel-broadwell-e-spec...6800k-detailed/ (http://wccftech.com/intel-broadwell-e-specifications-leaked-core-i7-6950x-flagship-processor-10-cores-20-threads-core-i7-6900k-core-i7-6850k-core-i7-6800k-detailed/)
The 6950x is going to be a 10-core, 20-thread monster that I'm PSYCHED to see benchmarks for. If it kicks enough ass, it might be the next upgrade. We shall see!
I'm actually still debating whether I want to go the i7 route or the Xeon route for my next workstation build.
-
Interesting. Right now a lot of games lack the ability to really use anything more than 4 cores to their full potential, although the situation is different in video process programs and server applications. It will be curious to see the specifications on the lower-core CPUs from this next batch of Intel chips. I wonder how they will compare to the last generation when we get the first performance benchmarks and overclocking benchmarks. Nonetheless, they sounds like a noticeable jump over the previous generation of CPUs.
-
Right now a lot of games lack the ability to really use anything more than 4 cores to their full potential, although the situation is different in video process programs and server applications.
Absolutely. Nothing about those chips is geared for gamers. A streaming+gaming build is going to do just fine with the current-gen Skylake i7 6700k for the foreseeable future.
I'm getting heavier into sample-based music production, myself. CPU and RAM are my bread and butter so the prospect of seeing big, beastly CPUs on the horizon is pretty exciting! :yes
I'm rocking a 3930k as my workstation right now (6 core / 12 thread, Overclocked to 4.22 GHz. Can't go any higher due to heat constraints), which is keeping up (barely) but I'm starting to hit a RAM ceiling and I don't want to dump any more money into DDR 3 RAM at this point.
Image of said RAM ceiling: :p
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h141/action9000/ram_zpsi3ivx48m.png)
-
62.3 GBs ?!?!
Holy cow, now that's a ceiling. :D
-
Wow! :! That is an absolutely massive amount of ram. I can definitely see why you are looking forward to the next generation of Intel CPUs. :yes
-
Wow! dino_exclamation.gif That is an absolutely massive amount of ram.
If only it was enough. :lol I still find myself rationing what's in my template and what isn't. I can't wait to build a 128 GB machine sometime.
And to think, I did all those LBT song projects on a Core 2 Duo with 8 GB of RAM back in the day. :p Back in the day when a 5GB project was huge. How times change... (mind you I was forced to render some of those 4 times because I didn't have enough RAM to load it all at once by the end of the lifecycle of that machine...but you know :p)
I remember when I upgraded that thing from 4 GB to 8 GB....HOLY CRAP it felt ridiculous at the time. :lol:
Funny story: That Core 2 Duo has been repurposed as a media center/local multiplayer gaming PC in my living room now. :lol 9 years old and still works! Threw a cheap SSD in it and it runs like a dream!
-
You can NEVER have too much RAM or CPU power. That's been true since computers first came out. Most of my machines still have 32GB in them. They can all be upgraded to 64GB, but I have been fine with 32GB so far (though like you, I am pushing the ceiling quite often). I'm waiting until I can afford to build a 128GB DDR4 rig before I upgrade these things.
Personally I do photo and video editing, gaming, web browsing, etc. But what eats all the RAM for me is honestly Chrome and Firefox. I keep hundreds of tabs and windows open at all times. I'm on my invoicing computer right now (this is the computer I never push very far because it's just for writing up invoices, browsing the net, and buying parts online), and Waterfox (64 bit version of Firefox) is using 12GB and Chrome is probably at least another 10GB. Then I've got a second administrative account that's running a data backup program, and my invoicing software is open as well as a hard drive diagnostic program. All together I'm using about 25GB out of my 32GB.....and I don't even push this machine.
As for the processor, it definitely looks like a monster. But I never buy the extreme series CPU's. I generally stick around the $350 to $600 range for the CPU. What I need more than anything is a good graphics card and a lot of RAM.
-
ut I never buy the extreme series CPU's. I generally stick around the $350 to $600 range for the CPU.
I've been doing the same. The problem this time around is that the flagship EE is the only model that has 10 cores and I REALLY need those. :(
When I picked up this 3930k, I could have opted for the 3960x EE but it didn't have any more cores than the 3930k. That made it impossible to justify, especially for the measly ~5% performance increase.
This time around, it's the difference of 4 more threads over the 2nd-highest model. I'd have a hard time saying no to that.
Most of my machines still have 32GB in them.
You might as well at this point. 16GB is cheap-cheap and 32GB is fully achieveable on any CPU without a crazy-high cost. I'd recommend 16GB for all but the most basic builds these days. It's amazing the quality-of-life difference it makes when you can make a build that allows you turn turn off the paging file. :yes I've turned mine off forever and it's a nice feeling knowing that data in memory is actually in PHYSICAL memory.
I'm impressed how you can fill that much RAM with web browsers though. How do you keep track of all those tabs? I'd personally find it more efficient to close tabs after awhile, if for no other reason than to help ME keep track of why I have each tab open. :lol
Don't get me wrong, I've hit 3-4 GB before without too much trouble, but I do get to a point where I just find it easier to close tabs versus keeping them open.
For example, here's my task manager. Most of that RAM is taken up by music stuff and more music stuff. My browsers are using a little bit but I can't begin to touch 10 GB, even on a good day. Vienna Ensemble Pro on the other hand, 47GB and counting. :lol
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h141/action9000/taskman_zps5dgh0x0p.png)
-
I'm impressed how you can fill that much RAM with web browsers though. How do you keep track of all those tabs? I'd personally find it more efficient to close tabs after awhile, if for no other reason than to help ME keep track of why I have each tab open. :lol
Don't get me wrong, I've hit 3-4 GB before without too much trouble, but I do get to a point where I just find it easier to close tabs versus keeping them open.
I do a lot of web development work and I never close anything. I also have the browsers set to restore the windows and tabs from the last session when I shut down the computer (which I do infrequently).
What eats up the most RAM is probably Youtube video tabs. I'm always in the middle of watching something. Whether it be a PHP tutorial or a snythasia video, I've always got at least a few dozen videos open in tabs.
I do this because bookmarking all these websites is out of the question. I'd have thousands of bookmarks. Maybe even tens of thousands. But when they're actually open in a tab, all I have to do is close them when I no longer need them. That saves me a LOT of time and effort compared to having to sort through thousands of bookmarks to find the stuff I no longer need.
But it's not fun when I restart my computer and open the browsers again. I've got a dozen Youtube videos playing at once and I've got to find them and pause them. And it takes a good 10+ minutes for all my tabs and windows to be restored and for the internet to load them all up again. But seeing as I only restart my computer around once every few months, it's an annoyance I can live with.
EDIT: Oh, and of course Firefox always seeps a bit more RAM for each tab constantly. If you keep Firefox open, you'll find it eat up more and more RAM over time, even if you don't open anything new. It's not significant, but it can cause problems over time. That's the only reason I restart the computer every month or two.
-
You can NEVER have too much RAM or CPU power
Couldn't agree more. If you're ever hitting 100% CPU usage, it just means you need more CPU power :p. Unless you're rendering something, I'm a believer that CPU should never spike to 100%.
What I need more than anything is a good graphics card and a lot of RAM.
I hear you. I actually have a pretty modest graphics card:
Radeon R9 270x.
Good midrange card but really nothing special whatsoever. Good enough for the gaming I do and good enough to accelerate Photoshop as needed. I can't really afford the power supply drain, heat or power bill to step up the graphics card any more than that. I'm trying to run this beast of a machine on a 620W power supply...and it's worked for the last 4 years. :lol
I do this because bookmarking all these websites is out of the question. I'd have thousands of bookmarks. Maybe even tens of thousands. But when they're actually open in a tab, all I have to do is close them when I no longer need them. That saves me a LOT of time and effort compared to having to sort through thousands of bookmarks to find the stuff I no longer need.
But it's not fun when I restart my computer and open the browsers again. I've got a dozen Youtube videos playing at once and I've got to find them and pause them. And it takes a good 10+ minutes for all my tabs and windows to be restored and for the internet to load them all up again. But seeing as I only restart my computer around once every few months, it's an annoyance I can live with.
That actually makes a lot of sense. I can see it being practical and also very RAM-intensive.
Also, I know what you mean by vicious load-times. To fill up my music production template takes about 15 minutes to load off SSDs. Not fun. Basically it means I just leave it running all the time so I effectively have ~10-12 GB of RAM for normal, day-to-day use like web browsing and gaming. As long as I shut down FL Studio, Vienna Ensemble Pro doesn't use any CPU power; it just sits there with all its data in RAM, behaving nicely in the background. FL Studio only has about a 1 minute load time so I can just start it up, pull up the last 10 GB of data from FL and get to work. Need to use the computer for normal use? Shut down FL Studio and I have about 10-12 GB of RAM and 100% of my CPU for whatever.
Compare the above screenshot's CPU usage to this one and you'll see what I mean. The screenshot below is what happens to CPU and RAM when I shut down FL Studio:
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h141/action9000/vepzero_zpspn2qyleu.png)
So it's pretty functional, really. Good multipurpose machine. :) But GOD would I love to bump it up to 128 GB.......
-
LOL. We're going to look back on this in 7 years and laugh our butts off. 64GB of RAM? Really? That's standard on a $300 computer now! 512GB is where it's at! All I can think about is this is exactly what it was like in the 1990's when I thought 32MB of RAM was all I'd ever need. Now we're at GigaBytes instead of MegaBytes. And eventually we'll be at TeraBytes instead of GigaBytes. Even now there are servers that have several TeraBytes of RAM just like back in the 1990's there were servers with GigaBytes of RAM.
It won't be that long until server grade stuff is in our desktop towers at home. And even then we'll be wanting for more. With 3D, holographic technology and VR, the need for raw processing power and RAM will only increase. I wonder what it will be like in 50 years. I remember being impressed with your Core2Duo 3.0Ghz computer with 8GB of RAM back in the day. That really was something. But now our computers are 10x more powerful and it's still not enough!
-
EDIT: Oh, and of course Firefox always seeps a bit more RAM for each tab constantly. If you keep Firefox open, you'll find it eat up more and more RAM over time, even if you don't open anything new. It's not significant, but it can cause problems over time. That's the only reason I restart the computer every month or two.
That's really true... I've often had to shut down Firefox after a while (fellow multi tabber here :p) because Firefox started freezing. My RAM never reached its maximum though, I never got it above 70% of my 8 GB RAM...
These days I'm doing okay with my RAM because I recently lost my session on firefox somehow so a lot of unneeded tabs aren't open anymore :p
Most stuff I have open all the time is websites I visit frequently or stuff I'd like to take a look at later (mostly DeviantArt stuff and YouTube vids)...
-
These days I'm doing okay with my RAM because I recently lost my session on firefox somehow so a lot of unneeded tabs aren't open anymore :p
Yeah, I switched from using Firefox as my main browser a while back. I now mostly use Chrome (but I use Firefox too). However recently Chrome hasn't been rendering some pages very well on any of my computers, so I find myself using Firefox more and more. I just wish it was less memory intensive.
-
This insane CPU is finally on the market at retail stores.
Check out that wicked pricetag! Yikes!
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX62180 (http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX62180)
-
This insane CPU is finally on the market at retail stores.
Check out that wicked pricetag! Yikes!
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX62180 (http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX62180)
You've just gotta shop around for the best price:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...AQ&gclsrc=aw.ds (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117643&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Processors+-+Desktops-_-N82E16819117643&gclid=Cj0KEQjwnIm7BRDSs42KxLS8-6YBEiQAfDWP6MkSWF1k2guGH0mJKVH1l9q9OfzjORE7-RMr59SCi6saAthh8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds)
Just wait a few months and it will be down to the standard $1,000 it normally is for Intel's flagship CPU.
-
@LBTLover - The price I quoted was in CAD from a local store. When I ran your Newegg post through a currency converter, I got a price tag of $2260.24 CAD - pretty close to just buying it local.
https://www.google.ca/?ion=1&espv=2#q=1%2C749.99+usd+to+cad (https://www.google.ca/?ion=1&espv=2#q=1%2C749.99+usd+to+cad)
ust wait a few months and it will be down to the standard $1,000 it normally is for Intel's flagship CPU.
I agree with this in general. This release is kind of a shitshow with the sheer quantity of high-end CPUs (6800, 6850x, 6900, 6950x) with even the 6800 being a ridiculous price considering what you get.
I'm looking forward to the next gen in 6-8 months and hoping it'll calm down a little. This wave of Enthusiast CPUs is just obnoxious. It's absolutely insane when I think about my 3930k being $600 CAD. It's impossible to get a reasonable upgrade at the ~$800 CAD pricepoint. Breaks my heart.
Here's a question for you nerds:
Do you feel the 6950x has ANY place in the market at that $1750 USD pricepoint?
It's a 10-core CPU.
At that price point, you can get a 12-core or 14-core Xeon that'll probably meet your needs better. A consumer has very few uses for a 10-core CPU that a Xeon CPU won't do better. Is this 6950x actually for anyone?
I'd argue it's for multimedia producers who also do day-to-day normal stuff on the same PC. Basically, it's for enthusiast / workstation hybrid machines where a Xeon is too specialized (lack of overclocking and lower clockspeeds are a problem for your use cases) and the normal 4-core i7's performance is getting so dwarfed by the 6950x that it makes no sense to get the 4-core for your multithreaded workloads.
Basically, it's a luxury product for people who want an "all-in-one PC" without doing multiple super-specialized builds.
What do you guys think?
-
@LBTLover - The price I quoted was in CAD from a local store. When I ran your Newegg post through a currency converter, I got a price tag of $2260.24 CAD - pretty close to just buying it local.
Ah, I didn't realize it was Canadian.
As for the marketability of this processor, Intel knows they probably won't sell a lot of them except to enthusiasts and such. I build computers for clients as part of my job, and there are more than a few people willing to shell out big bucks for components they don't need just for the prestige of being able to afford it.
I can tell you now, I absolutely LOVE computers and I would consider myself an enthusiast, however I would never buy this processor for that price point. I *might* consider it if it were around $700, but not a penny more. My current motherboard will accept this processor too. Still, the bottleneck is my systems hasn't been the CPU for a very long time. The last time I remember the CPU being a bottleneck was back in the Pentium 4 days.
-
I *might* consider it if it were around $700, but not a penny more.
I'm with you. At about $1200 CAD I'd be seriously considering that 6950x because it's a MASSIVE upgrade (about a 90% performance boost from my current system, holy crap!) and fits my use case exceptionally well. That would put it at 2x the price and x2 the performance of my current CPU. I could justify that.
At $2200 though, it's just getting a little silly. I'd honestly be scared to build a computer worth $6-7000. I'm sad enough when a $250 graphics card or $100 hard drive blows up, let alone a dead $400 motherboard that kills a $2200 CPU. I don't think I want to be part of that world.
I don't really like the thought of spending more than about $3500 on a computer. After upgrades, that's about what this one cost me and that's the upper end of where I'm not scared sh!itless of things dying. Any more than that and I think my life would be too full of anxiety. :lol
Oh, LBTLover: You mentioned earlier you weren't considering an upgrade until you could bump up to 128 GB of DDR4.
The low-end enthusiast i7 (the 6800k) supports up to 128 GB of RAM now if you're still considering an upgrade and not wanting to drop insane amounts of cash on a CPU you don't need. :p
-
Sounds nice, but way too expensive!
-
I *might* consider it if it were around $700, but not a penny more.
I'm with you. At about $1200 CAD I'd be seriously considering that 6950x because it's a MASSIVE upgrade (about a 90% performance boost from my current system, holy crap!) and fits my use case exceptionally well. That would put it at 2x the price and x2 the performance of my current CPU. I could justify that.
At $2200 though, it's just getting a little silly. I'd honestly be scared to build a computer worth $6-7000. I'm sad enough when a $250 graphics card or $100 hard drive blows up, let alone a dead $400 motherboard that kills a $2200 CPU. I don't think I want to be part of that world.
I don't really like the thought of spending more than about $3500 on a computer. After upgrades, that's about what this one cost me and that's the upper end of where I'm not scared sh!itless of things dying. Any more than that and I think my life would be too full of anxiety. :lol
Oh, LBTLover: You mentioned earlier you weren't considering an upgrade until you could bump up to 128 GB of DDR4.
The low-end enthusiast i7 (the 6800k) supports up to 128 GB of RAM now if you're still considering an upgrade and not wanting to drop insane amounts of cash on a CPU you don't need. :p
I've built quite a few $5,000+ machines in my time, and yeah it's scary. If you make a mistake or screw something up, that's a BAD deal.
I recently had a customer that tried to build his own computer. He bought 4x 780ti graphics cards, a sick CPU and motherboard, and a bargain basement case. The problem is, he tried to run all that on a cheap 700 watt PSU. The PSU blew up the second he turned it on and it took out his motherboard and 3 of his 4 graphics cards. And get this....he bought some $60 Crucial memory to go with his sick setup and put the whole thing in this horrible cheapo case.
You do NOT want to spend a premium on some parts, then cheap out on others, throw it all together, and expect to get a good stable system. It just doesn't work that way. So after spending like $6,000 already, he had to pay another $3,500 and paid me to rebuild it all in a decent case.
Needless to say, next time he wants to build his own computer or do any upgrades, he's just going to take it to me. :p
As for upgrading my current system, I could do that but I'd also have to get a new motherboard. I'm not in the mood to drop $1,000 for a modest performance increase. I'm going to wait until the next socket type comes out. My highest end computer has an LGA2011 socket, but I also have a system with an LGA1150 and an LGA1155. I'm going to wait until the next socket type comes out, then I'm upgrading the motherboard, processor, and memory on all 3 of my main desktops. I use a Corsair AX1500i power supply on my main system, and an AX1200i on my other 2 systems. This is my main rig that does 4k gaming and connects to my 4k TV:
(http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa146/tlordame/IMG_0674.jpg) (http://s203.photobucket.com/user/tlordame/media/IMG_0674.jpg.html)
(http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa146/tlordame/IMG_0675.jpg) (http://s203.photobucket.com/user/tlordame/media/IMG_0675.jpg.html)
I built it about 2 years ago and it's been a great computer. It currently supports up to 64GB of RAM with the current motherboard, but it's DDR3 3100Mhz.
One of the best things about doing computers for a living is when I upgrade my motherboard, processor, and memory, I can build another system around those parts and sell it. Just get a decent case, a good quality power supply, and a mid range graphics card and you're good to go. Throw in a cheap SSD and you're rocking a pretty nice system. In the end, I usually only end up paying about $100 to upgrade my system after I sell off the old parts that I build a new system around. It's great.
-
I've built quite a few $5,000+ machines in my time, and yeah it's scary. If you make a mistake or screw something up, that's a BAD deal.
Absolutely!
A couple of years ago I tried to build an i5 4690k machine for my grandparents myself. I bought the parts, took them home...and made a huge mistake when installing the CPU on the motherboard.
I honestly don't know what I did wrong. I inserted the CPU into the motherboard the right way, closed the latch, built the rest of the machine and it didn't boot. When I took out the CPU while I was diagnosing it, I noticed the CPU pins had become bent during the installation.
I took back the CPU and exchanged it for a new one. When I installed the new one into my board, the exact same thing happened - the CPU pins were bent as I closed the latch.
Ever since, I've been terrified of building my own computer from scratch because I have ZERO idea what I did wrong or how that was possibly happening.
Maybe someone can enlighten me on what may have gone wrong? Also, what is the purpose of that black lid that sits on a new mobo's CPU socket that just kinda falls off but says "do not remove until installing the CPU" or something similar? I assume it was related to my problem but...it can't be because then how would you ever replace the CPU? I assume it's just to protect from dust?
I have no idea how the simple act of inserting a CPU into the socket could bend the pins. Because I don't even know what I did wrong, I'm unwilling to attempt building a computer again, especially since I'm looking at higher-end builds with VERY expensive CPUs.
I've installed CPUs on motherboards in the past, in the AMD Athlon and Pentium 4 days. The i5 just didn't like me and I have no idea what I did wrong...I feel I was very careful, lined everything up, closed the latch slowly...I don't know what could have gone wrong but I'm 2 for 2 on the i5s so I'm obviously doing SOMETHING wrong.
I don't suppose anyone would have an idea? I've just been going through a local builder for years who will build my system for $40 for me. It just sucks because, while I can replace other components, I can't upgrade the CPU because I'm terrified of ripping my CPU out.
-
Absolutely!
A couple of years ago I tried to build an i5 4690k machine for my grandparents myself. I bought the parts, took them home...and made a huge mistake when installing the CPU on the motherboard.
I honestly don't know what I did wrong. I inserted the CPU into the motherboard the right way, closed the latch, built the rest of the machine and it didn't boot. When I took out the CPU while I was diagnosing it, I noticed the CPU pins had become bent during the installation.
I took back the CPU and exchanged it for a new one. When I installed the new one into my board, the exact same thing happened - the CPU pins were bent as I closed the latch.
Ever since, I've been terrified of building my own computer from scratch because I have ZERO idea what I did wrong or how that was possibly happening.
Maybe someone can enlighten me on what may have gone wrong? Also, what is the purpose of that black lid that sits on a new mobo's CPU socket that just kinda falls off but says "do not remove until installing the CPU" or something similar? I assume it was related to my problem but...it can't be because then how would you ever replace the CPU? I assume it's just to protect from dust?
I have no idea how the simple act of inserting a CPU into the socket could bend the pins. Because I don't even know what I did wrong, I'm unwilling to attempt building a computer again, especially since I'm looking at higher-end builds with VERY expensive CPUs.
I've installed CPUs on motherboards in the past, in the AMD Athlon and Pentium 4 days. The i5 just didn't like me and I have no idea what I did wrong...I feel I was very careful, lined everything up, closed the latch slowly...I don't know what could have gone wrong but I'm 2 for 2 on the i5s so I'm obviously doing SOMETHING wrong.
I don't suppose anyone would have an idea? I've just been going through a local builder for years who will build my system for $40 for me. It just sucks because, while I can replace other components, I can't upgrade the CPU because I'm terrified of ripping my CPU out.
Well, something's getting confused here because the Intel i-Series processors don't have pins on the CPU's themselves. The pins are on the motherboard. As for the black cover, if you close the CPU latch with no CPU installed, you can damage the socket where the pins are on the motherboard. If anything, you ended up bending the pins on the motherboard. If that happened, getting a new CPU wouldn't have solved anything because the CPU itself is fine. The problem is with the motherboard.
AMD CPU's still have pins on the CPU's themselves. But Intel moved away from that a long time ago, back in the Core 2 Duo days.
The main way you bend the crap out of the pins is if you install the CPU in the wrong orientation. Make sure you line it up properly before putting it on. And make sure you close one of the latches before the other.
EDIT: All this being said, it's very possible to un-bend the pins on the motherboard if you're VERY patient and have the right tools (NOT a ballpoint pen).
-
You're right, LBTLover. It was some time ago and apparently I've forgotten that detail. :p
Yes, the pins were on the motherboard, not the CPU, but the concept of the problem remains true. Thanks for the clarification. I suppose I just repressed the details from my memory from embarrassment. :lol