The Gang of Five
Beyond the Mysterious Beyond => The Party Room => Topic started by: Petrie. on June 20, 2009, 07:14:06 PM
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Well don't they? I thought they did! :p
(http://bobbiblogger.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/9cf6dc.jpg)
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:lol Pretty funny.
Say, have the rules changed or something? Why is this in the party room? Is this a game?
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:lol Pretty funny.
Say, have the rules changed or something? Why is this in the party room? Is this a game?
Random laugh. I flipped a coin between the fridge and the party room. :nyah
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:lol
very funny indeed.
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"Its not open for debate" that its worth the laugh. XD
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:lol Nice!
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So wait, two church's carried out this conversation on their posting boards? That's what I'm finding really funny. Might make for an interesting week of commutes if you drive past both though :DD
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I think its photoshopped as you can tell the letters don't fit entirely correctly in the spots on those boards. Its still a good laugh even if it didn't really happen.
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Apart from the joke, this is also an interesting theological question.
If animals don't go to heaven, where do they go?
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Not sure. I checked the Catholic Catechism, and it didn't say anything about animals going to heaven one way or another.
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Maybe they do, you never know....
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Maybe. They are God's creatures too... but they are less aware of what they are doing...
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LOL! Great laugh there Petrie! Just another way of expressing religious debates even if it is Photoshop'ed :lol
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I believe that dogs have souls, and have shown again and again that they are capable of amazing feats of courage and sacrifice. the love and affection they show us daily is unconditional, they don't ask about homework or how the job is going.. I believe the pets we have go to heaven, and are waiting for us to join them..
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Yeah, I am a proponent that animals don't have a soul, but dogs and cats have managed to worm in (meant to sound good) a spot in our hearts and show back affections (even cats in an arrogant sort of way at times :DD) that...well we don't know everything about what heaven will be like anyway, so anything's possible
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It may sound silly but if you have some form of worship and believe that whatever you worship or honor can communicate with you in some way with you why not use whatever methods are in your belief system to ask that and go with the answer. It may well be right for you, even if others have a different belief.
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What exactly IS the soul in this context anyway? If it means that which makes the nature of a person's individual character, his or her ability to love, and hate, and rejoice, and grieve I think it would be difficult to deny that animals did have a soul too.
If instead it is what makes up the human consciousness which enables us for example to plan ahead and think about the consequences of our actions on a higher level than animals in general (though there ARE cases where animals, primates in particular, have been acting in a way that DOES suggest a certain degree of consciousness) things are getting more tricky.
But is the soul something so purely "intellectual" as consciousness?
What is the soul?
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The soul? Philosophers from Greece have commonly defined it as the element in a living being which makes it truly alive, and not just a bunch of carbon and other elements arranged in a certain order. They say the soul is immortal, and gives life, but cannot accept death...
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If that is the definition then it would be hard to uphold any claim that animals did not posses a soul. This definition would not base the presence or absence of a soul on the question whether or not a being has a consciousness which (for example) would allow this being to make judgments such as those one what is good and what is evil. Is the awareness of good and evil a precondition to go to heaven? And if it is, then where do the beings go who do not possess this awareness?
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Purgatory? Not sure. Probably, if you believe in it...
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So all beings who are by "design" unaware of good or evil would be condemned to suffer?
But unless I'm very mistaken the purgatory is meant to be a temporary thing where souls are "purged" by being tortured before send to heaven after all. Or would there be a special rule condemning animals or other beings for their ignorance of good or evil to eternal purgatory? In that case the difference between hell and purgatory would wane with (I'm sorry if this sounds blasphemic, but by all descriptions I am aware of this would be the accurate description) with the management being the only difference.
Is a being unable to know good or evil able to sin at all? Is such a being to suffer for all eternity for an ignorance that is not the fault of this being? This would not sound very just to me.
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:DD :lol That was the funniest thing I've read in a long time! Just an argument going back and forth between two church posting boards! :lol I'm still laughing about that!
Great work!
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First, there is no such thing as "eternal purgatory" in Christianity... that would be hell. As for why I thought purgatory was chosen... well... it keeps animals out of hell because they don't know what they were doing, but I cannot say that they are sinless, so they don't get directly into "doggie heaven."
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But if they were to go to purgatory and if there is no eternal purgatory (I totally agree that the permanence would make it identical with hell) then there must be some state / place to which they would pass on from the purgatory.
Personally I still think it is difficult to claim on the one hand that animals are able to sin, but on the other hand claim that they had no conscience allowing them to tell good from evil.
If they did have such a consciousness, I don't see how they could be barred from heaven or hell; but if they did not have such a consciousness I do not see how they could be "stored" in the purgatory just because they are not wanted in heaven or hell.
Is a being who is utterly unaware of any notion of good or evil able to sin? Perhaps so, but not with any deliberation in doing that. So can a being be punished by a just deity for something committed in a total absence of any notion of good or evil?
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It can be temporarily punished, with the knowledge that the suffering is temporary only... I guess all dogs DO go to heaven... eventually. Kind of like saying "bad dog!"
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So you believe animals can go to heaven?
Personally I hope that if there is a heaven they can.
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I guess so...I cannot pretend to know for sure. I suppose they can do bad things, but not get the same punishment as self-aware creatures would get... but we can still punish a bad dog in order to modify his behavior... so that he will be a good boy when he finally crosses through the pearly gates. Wow, a short comment from Malte... :lol
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lol, no rocks in heaven, then all rocks go to heaven, funny, Dogs have to go to Heaven, the good dogs anyway, their loyal and kind for the most part and if they don't have souls how are they living? Never mind, I just hope dogs and all my pets go to Heaven, so yeah.
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Hahahaha, okay I'm officially amused. :p :lol