J.R.R Tolkien ; The Children of Hurin

AvestheForumFox · **on:** November 22, 2007, 08:31:31 PM

The book was recently finished by Tolkien's son Christopher Tolkien and finally released to the public. The book features brilliant chapter illustrations (penciled or painted) and the story is beautiful in the telling.

In a time long before Souron's rise to power and the dreadful War of the Ring, we are introduced to the Lucifer of Middle Earth, Morgoth.

The story is about offspring of Hurin, whom after Hurin was captured and imprisoned by Morgoth were cursed to suffer tragic fates while Hurin was forced to watch from a distance.

A tragic tale nonetheless, and perhaps the saddest ending I've ever seen in any literature (or film) which proves that in Tolkien's world, not every story has a 'happy' ending.

A must read for any Tolkien fan.

Manny Cav · **Reply #1 on:** November 22, 2007, 08:47:26 PM

I don't understand any of that or know what any of it is.

:

Kor · **Reply #2 on:** November 22, 2007, 08:51:58 PM

It takes place during the first age, before Elrond or his brother Elros were born I think. I read the unfinished story over 2 decades ago so don't remember much of the detail. Morgoth was a Valar, a being more powerful then the Malar that Gandolf, S?ruman (never can remember how to spell this dude's name) and Sauron are. Sauron took over once his boss Morgoth was tossed beyond the circles of the world by the Valar at what marked the end of first age. Elrond and Elros were born a bit before the end of the first age.

Manny Cav · **Reply #3 on:** November 22, 2007, 08:56:24 PM

Quote from: Kor,Nov 22 2007 on 06:51 PM

It takes place during the first age, before Elrond or his brother Elros were born I think.

I don't know what any of that is, either.

AvestheForumFox · **Reply #4 on:** November 22, 2007, 09:00:48 PM

Quote from: Manny Cav,Nov 22 2007 on 07:56 PM

Quote from: Kor,Nov 22 2007 on 06:51 PM
It takes place during the first age, before Elrond or his brother Elros were born I think.
I don't know what any of that is, either.

then, my friend

perhaps you should dig into the wonders that is Tolkien fiction.

Tolkien was a milestone in his genre, his works include:
The Hobbit
The Lord of the Rings Series
The Silmarillion
The Lost Tales
The Adventures of Tom Bombadil
and many other fantasy classics ^_^

Manny Cav · **Reply #5 on:** November 22, 2007, 09:46:36 PM

I'm really not that interested in a lot of fantasy stuff like that (though I might have to take a look at the original Dinotopia books someday :^.^: ).

Kor · **Reply #6 on:** November 22, 2007, 11:35:44 PM

To each their own. I also plan on getting the first dinotopia book, within the next few months or so. Maybe the 4th one also.

Nick22 · **Reply #7 on:** December 12, 2007, 07:02:37 PM

The Valar were sort of like angels, and there were 13 of them, withMorgoth being the second most powerful. He wanted dominion over the others and over the ages turned against his felow Valar. The Silmarilion, goes into detail about the endless wars Morgoth waged against his former brethern. The Maiar were powerful spritits, that served the Valar, Morgoth corrupted some of those, Sauron was one of those as were the Balrog that Gandalf fought in the Fellowship of the Ring in Moria. I suspect Saruman, Radagast and the Blue Wizards were Maiar as well, although of the 5, only Gandalf completed his mission.

Nick22 · **Reply #8 on:** December 13, 2007, 07:12:06 PM

Further, it in apparent the Maiair are not immortal, Gandalf slays the Balrog, and later dies himself, and Wormtongue kille Saruman... How old gandalf or Saruman are are not made clear, although they are at least sevwral hundred years old.. In the EA Game LOTR return of the kIng, ian mackellan mentions that Gandalf is 7000 years old. Possible, but I dion't put that age as cannon.

Kor · **Reply #9 on:** December 13, 2007, 07:36:19 PM

They are likely older then the world. When Iluvader (or however you spell his name) made the world some spirits choose to enter the world. They are tied to the world, as the spirits of the firstborn of Illuvater are that are called eldar or the elves. Gandalf's name in Valinor is actually Olorin. I'll have to look up the other's names. During the early first age, Olorin use to hang out, invisibly with the elves, or sometimes adopt one of their appearances for periods of time, if I remember the early parts of the Silmarillion right.

It was likely only the physical body that died or was killed. Galdalf was sent back by Illuvator. Since Manwe's mission failed one could say, Illuvator gave him a different mission, perhaps one way why gandalf the white acts a bit different then Galdolf he white.

AvestheForumFox · **Reply #10 on:** December 13, 2007, 07:42:24 PM

I know that Elrond has lived a massive chunk of time on Middle Earth.. he actually recalls the first War of the Ring for crisake!

oh, and in the books, I think he speaks highly of Hurin

Kor · **Reply #11 on:** December 13, 2007, 07:49:26 PM

Elrond and his brother Elros are from the first age. It was the battle that took place at the end of the first age that lead to Numemor being created and Elros chose to be numbered among men and he took people who followed him and went to found Numenor. Elrond choose to be numbered among elves. All half elves are given the choice to be numbered men or elves and they become that. His father choose to be numbered among elves, for sake of his wife, though he would have proffered to be numbered among men.

His father E‰rendil sails a ship that is seen as a star by those of middle earth to give hope to the people of middle earth. Upon his brow he wears the last, and only Silmarillion recovered by the Valor. The rest were lost to them. It's said his wife meets him every time his ship comes to make port..

It is a bit of this light that the fial, or whatever it's called, that Galadriel gave to Frodo has in it. Galadriel is one of the elves who went to Valinor, then returned to middle earth, though it's said she and her people took no part in the kinslaying.

AvestheForumFox · **Reply #12 on:** December 13, 2007, 08:01:24 PM

Quote from: Kor,Dec 13 2007 on 06:49 PM

Elrond and his brother Elros are from the first age. It was the battle that took place at the end of the first age that lead to Numemor being created and Elros chose to be numbered among men and he took people who followed him and went to found Numenor. Elrond choose to be numbered among elves. All half elves are given the choice to be numbered men or elves and they become that. His father choose to be numbered among elves, for sake of his wife, though he would have proffered to be numbered among men.

His father E‰rendil sails a ship that is seen as a star by those of middle earth to give hope to the people of middle earth. Upon his brow he wears the last, and only Silmarillion recovered by the Valor. The rest were lost to them. It's said his wife meets him every time his ship comes to make port..

It is a bit of this light that the fial, or whatever it's called, that Galadriel gave to Frodo has in it. Galadriel is one of the elves who went to Valinor, then returned to middle earth, though it's said she and her people took no part in the kinslaying.

your knowledge of Tolkien lore astounds me to no end, Kor

Kor · **Reply #13 on:** December 13, 2007, 09:32:14 PM

Thanks, but I've seen some online who know far more then I do. I'm just someone who has read some middle earth books and use to have and often read the paperback middle earth encyclopedia as a teenager. I"m surprised I remember what I have.

Nick22 · **Reply #14 on:** December 14, 2007, 01:56:54 PM

ok, so in Saruman;s case, his body was slain as well. Then where did he go? He had failed in his task, as did Radagast, who forsook his mission to live among the birds and wild creatures, and the Blue Wizards, whose names are not mentioned in the trilogy.. I believe thier names were mentioned in the unfinished tales.. but since it has been awhile since I read it, I can't be sure. Beren cut the Simarillion frm the Crown on Morgoth's head, were all three resided. He Lost a hand as a result of act, but managed to escape.

Kor · **Reply #15 on:** December 14, 2007, 03:46:46 PM

There is a difference. Saruman failed and joined the enemy, Radgast failed but more like he wondered off the road into the forests beside the road but would help if Gandolf asked. I'm not sure where Saruman went, he was a mist (perhaps a spirit) after wormtongue killed him but it can be said the wind that blew him away could have been sent by Manwe, perhaps he was flung outside of the circles of the world like Morgoth was and I would guess Sauron too.

With the two blue wizards and their fate it depends on if you want to go with Tolkien's early or latter idea. Early on he thought maybe they were caught and killed or bent over to Saruman's side somehow. Latter on Christopher Tolkien said he found among his father's papers some notes later in his life where he thought when they went east they were not captured and somehow brought to Saruman's side, but led a resistance group to try to weaken Saruman by getting people to resist him.

Nick22 · **Reply #16 on:** December 14, 2007, 04:07:09 PM

Regrdless of thier fate, they did not return to Valinor, only Gandalf did. He was forbiden by Manwe from confrontinhg Sauron directky, even though he was Sauron's equal in power, both were Maiar. He was given one of the 3 Elven Narya when he entered middleEarth, it was given to him by Cirdan, who I believe was an firstborn like Elrond..

Kor · **Reply #17 on:** December 14, 2007, 04:23:58 PM

Manwe's plan was for the istari to help guide the people of middle earth to defeat Saruman themselves instead of relying on the Valar and Malar to do this. Elrond is half elven, since he choose to be numbered among elves his children were given the same choice, unlike Elros's children and their descendents. By not going with Elrond on the white ship they choose to be numbered among man and became humans.

Cirdan is indeed an elf, very ancient one. I read somewhere that he vowed to not leave middle earth till the last elven ship sails. I think he is one of the first elves, one of the ones who journeyed to the sea under the Valor inviting them to come to valinor in the first age. He's so old that he has a beard, a thing unheard of among elves.

Nick22 · **Reply #18 on:** December 14, 2007, 05:12:07 PM

You Mean Sauron, ? So, Once Gandalf kleaves the Gray Havens, his task is done forever, right? What does he do in Valinor? I believe Valinor was a paradise correct?

Kor · **Reply #19 on:** December 14, 2007, 07:29:14 PM

Once Sauron was destroyed with the one ring being destroyed Galdolf's task was over. As I remember, maybe wrongly, after that he wasn't very interested in the goings on of middle earth very much. As for what he does I guess he goes back to whatever he did as Olorin. I don't remember which Valor he served, either Manwe's wife or Manwe I think, I don't recall which or if it was another. I think it was his wife's suggestion to include Olorin as one if the istari. I think Manwe wanted to send only 3. One if the blue wizards had a friend who wanted to go with his friend and Manwe's wife suggestion of Olorin made it 5.