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As good as the sequels are...

WeirdRaptor

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...What would you change about them? Hello, this is essentially a sequel to my original topic about what we fans might have done with the original Land Before Time, ourselves. Well, now I'm applying that to the sequels.
What, about any, all, or one of the sequels, would you change if you could?

Me, personally:

Well, while I wouldn't necessarily do away with the songs, I'm not so sure that the strict 'lighter and softer' approach to story-telling worked very well. The original was a darker film altogether and it was more free to explore itself, so to speak. While the lighter approach worked for some of the sequels, I think that universal should have given the filmmaker's more room to allow them to be more serious if needed. I say this because some of the sequels kind of feel like they were artificially restricted from being all that they could have been.

Another thing I'd have liked is for some of the plots and characterizations to have been better explained. Like in the fifth film during the "Always There" scene. Was the gang freaking out at every shadow and noise because they'd gone soft from living in the Great Valley too log? Or were they freaking out because of their past experiences in which strange noises and sights outside of the Valley equated to danger? Both? A little more psychological depth in that scene might have been nice, although the song was still good.

I'll post more about specific sequels later.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf


landbeforetimelover

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Not much really.  I guess I'd make 'em longer and have them all in the newest animation style.  That's about it.  Well......some of the newer songs could use some work.  But other than that, the sequels are really great.  Despite the fact that they keep changing Littlefoot's voice, I really can't tell.  I remember when they changed all the characters voices in Pokemon.  Wow.  It took me like 30 episodes to get used to their voices they all changed so much.  Especially Jame's voice.  But anyway, point is changing the voice actors in an animated film can be VERY noticeable, but fortunately for us the folks at Universal Studios are able to keep finding adequate replacements for Littlefoot's voice.


DarkHououmon

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I'd want to bring back the serious tone of the first movie and do away with the songs, mainly. I used to like the songs as a kid, but now they just grate my nerves and I don't really see a purpose in having them. I'd probably also want to bring back the animation style of the first movie. I feel the first movie had the best style of animation.


Malte279

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I am posting this before reading your preceding posts in order not to be influenced by them. This message is not to list every single point that might be changed but it lists some of the most important.

1. More concern about a good plot.
First and foremost many of the later sequels in particular have very serious flaws in their plots. It should be made sure that not only does the plot not contradict earlier movies (LBT 10), but also that there are no highly unrealistic actions (like riding a Geysir to the top of a mountain (LBT 7), or elements that are too outright a violation of the laws of nature (like a tsunami rolling from the shore to the open sea in LBT 5 or a hot spring being covered by a layer of ice in LBT 8).

2. Cut out the red in case of danger.
This must have been the favorite effect of Charles Grossvenor or one of his team. The moment things get dangerous the whole world (in case of LBT 10 even the characters) turn red. I think that is clearly overdoing it. One should note that not all Grossvenor movies sport that effect. LBT 9 for example, which I think sported the last decent sharptooth we had, did not use it which goes to show it is something one can really make do without.

3. Sharpteeth should not be a harmless entertainment for dinosaurkids.
There has been an extreme degeneration of the sharpteeth that has reached the point where they are really no longer a thread that one can take serious. If sharpteeth are being tripped by dinosaur kids crawling under their feet (LBT 10), raptors are being overcome by being tickled by some tinosaurs (LBT 11), and a sharptooth won't even manage to chew or swallow when you are in his mouth until releasing you again after you tickle it (LBT 12) then I think something is really wrong. Even the most ferocious sharptooth in the original movie allowed for a bit of slapstick, but it did not make it look perfectly harmless.

4. Don't play around with the colors too much.
This is similar to the red in case of danger thing but referring to red water, green lava, deep green skies, and characters playing chamaeleon depending on the temperature. In general the coloring of some of the dinosaurs is a bit over the top as far as I am concerned. I admit it is not a point so important to me that it would give me sleepless nights, but I think a slightly more subtle coloring would not have hurt characters like Mo (in case of chomper I even think they actually did take some saturation out of his color making him look a bit more grayish than purple), or characters where I think the coloring has been applied mainly to make them stand out from possible other characters of the same species (Tria and Tricia for example).

5. Don't use too simple animation techniques.
Another point that doesn't bother me too much but where I still see a chance for improvement. Often we see the characters running but you also see that while they are making the running movements the background landscape, floor and everything just "glide past" them at a steady pace. It looks like the characters were totally detached from the surrounding world.

6. Don't avoid dark elements too much.
I think that sometimes it is fear for frightening anyone that makes the makers of the movies avoid anything more serious and dark. But I have yet to hear of anyone who did not like one of the dark moments we have in the sequels, namely the Pterano incident. We also hardly ever hear anything about Littlefoot's feelings about his death mother and even less about the mysteriously vanished parents of the others. Especially in the relationship between Chomper and Littlefoot I think the makers are wasting a very important point just because it is more complex, serious, and dark. Moments of very real peril can add a LOT to the emotionality of a story (e.g. the way they did in LBT 9).

7. Without having read them I would almost bet anyone would say something about the songs. This however is a point I would not really bother too much about. Of course it would be good if we had only such great pieces like (this is my opinion again) "No one has to be alone", "Always There" etc. but so long such songs come along I am willing to swallow the poorer ones along with the good ones (no reason though to shun any effort to avoid poor songs in the production).


Malte279

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I read the earlier posts now.
Quote
Another thing I'd have liked is for some of the plots and characterizations to have been better explained. Like in the fifth film during the "Always There" scene. Was the gang freaking out at every shadow and noise because they'd gone soft from living in the Great Valley too log? Or were they freaking out because of their past experiences in which strange noises and sights outside of the Valley equated to danger? Both? A little more psychological depth in that scene might have been nice, although the song was still good.
Very good point WR :yes
As for animation styles I was personally quite happy with that of the original movie and sufficiently happy with that of the early sequels (they could have put a bit more effort in the fire of the LBT 2 volcano). I already pointed out some of the flaws in the more modern animation I have seen. That does not mean that I generally discard any modern animation. If it fits in well like some skies in the later sequels or the water in LBT 9, then it is perfectly fine with me. But if unrealistic colors, the background gliding past effect that I mentioned before, or rather artificial looking console style animation (like in the intro of LBT 7 or the scene in LBT 10 where Littlefoot runs along that large tree branch) is the price to be paid for the better aspects of modern animation I guess I would rather go for the older style.


Cancerian Tiger

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Malte could not have said it any better :exactly.  To add to his list, I would've liked to see the following happen:

*Levels of suspense and peril should've been kept at the same level of intensity as the original film and LBT II through LBT V.

*The fates of missing relatives confirmed.

*Lastly, a sequel that is entirely devoted to our favorite little swimmer.  She seems to get the least amount of attention when it comes to who is the star of the film :neutral.


Kor

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Roughly I'd have good writing, good directors.  Focus on having the feel & ariuos elements of the first movie and the early sequels.  But no sharpteeth who can do super jumps or can fall a lethal distance and just be stunned.  For starters at least.


WeirdRaptor

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Well said, Malte. Yeah, the whole Chomper issue is the most glaring example of how the filmmakers let a potentially complex plot idea slip past them.

Alright, now that I've had time to thnk it over, here are what you would've changed about the sequels, one sequel at a time.

Land Before Time #2: This one was mostly pretty dang good, but there are a few glaring things I would have changed.
1. LBT2 really could have stood to be about twenty minutes longer, because I think the filmmakers could have gone for broke with the whole "Chomper is a meat eater living in the leaf eater's paradise, but he likes some of the leaf eaters as friends, not food idea. As Malte was pointed out countless times, while Chomper is definitely one of the best quest characters LBT ever had, the creators kind of wasted him.

2. I'd also have expanded more ont he idea of Littlefoot trying to rear Chomper. While they introduced the idea with the scene in which Littlefoot asks his Grandparents about it and shows him having to really work hard to keep an eye of Chomper, the whole idea was just kind of abandoned. Understandable since Chomper's real parents show, but still.

3. Scrut and Ozzie would have been more competent villains. While I liked some of the humor we got out of them, they never do anything remotely effective. A little tragedy over an egg being eaten and family losing an unborn child might be a little too dark. On the other hand, though, it would serve to show the audience how brutal the world was outside of the Valley. That bad things still happen in spite of the Valley's existance which could serve to show more good the Valley inhabitants have it, overall.

4. Like Malte said, more effort into the volcano scene.

That's about it. Yeah, my version of LBT2 would have been nightmare fuel ridden.

Land Before Time #3: This is one that I always felt was just okay, because I found the bully plot to be too stereotypical. Seriously, every kid's series had a bully episode of some sort that told us how bad bullying is. Did we really need another one? On top of that, I didn't really find Hyp, Dil and Nod to be very effective bullies, compared to some other better examples I had seen by that point. So, onto the changes...

1. I would not have dropped the bully plot altogether, because the "bullying is bad" and "bullies might be screwed up because of their homelife" schemes to have relevance. It should have been approached with more seriousness, though.
I'll think on this one, so moving on.

2. I think the idea of the Valley running short on water could have been played with a little more. For one thing, Little and co finding alternative water sources never comes of anything. They find it, but then the plot is abandoned in favor of a forest fire. Seriously, a scene in which the adults are med to it by the kids couldn't have been added?

3. The forest fire would have been more threatening and frightening. For one, I think it should have claimed one or two noted casualties that would be scene and mourned. That would show jsut how dangerous forest fires in a drying environment can be.

4. Lastly, I kind of would have liked to see how the whole "who gets to drink at what time of day" scenario worked in more detail and why was Mr. Threehorn the only one bothering too make sure it was properly regulated.

5. Mr. Threehorn is supposed to be a jerk for being so harsh in regulating the water supply, but I found myself, as a 24 year old, agreeing with him on some points. While I wil admit keeping the little ones from drinking until the time in which the whole species was supposed to drink was going a little far, its stated that Mr. Threehorn was going by the system they had agreed to ("Species X gets a drink when sun is in Y position").

6. Why were the adults, themselves, not trying to find an alternative water supply? Seriously, it wouldn't have taken much for them to go looking, themselves, as they would do by nature, anyway. Littlefoot and co still could have been the first ones to find another water source to save the Valley dwellers for a while.

7. The idea that less food was growing healthily could have been played a little more.

That's all til later.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf


Leopardi

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90% of the songs are made just for the sake of making them.

The overall atmosphere has turned from immersive and memorable to generic 2 year old cartoon style "happy happy joy joy" singing with retarded characters (oofah... doofah... *BEEP*)  :x


aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)

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Quote from: Cancerian Tiger,Nov 18 2009 on  04:40 AM
Lastly, a sequel that is entirely devoted to our favorite little swimmer.  She seems to get the least amount of attention when it comes to who is the star of the film :neutral.
When I read that, I immediately thought, "Jeez, yeah!" (No literally, that's what I thought.) Ducky never gets her own film. What gives?"

But then I thought about the two times she's already taken the spotlight. In LBT8, she turned into a hyper-jealous ingrate who gave up on her own brother. In "Sky Colored Stones" Tv episode, she became a competitive jerk who lied to all her friends for some worthless stones.

Upon second thought, I think I don't mind her staying in the background. It doesn't seem she can take the spotlight without transforming into Mrs. Hyde.


Pangaea

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Personally, I couldn’t agree with Cancerian Tiger more about Ducky. No offense, LB&T, but I think you’re being a little hard on her (Ducky, that is, not CT :p). Seriously, not even Ducky can be expected to be cheerful and innocent ALL of the time. I think her behavior in LBT VIII is justifiable (see here for what I feel is a very convincing argument), and I have some thoughts on the sky color stone incident as well. (Also, for the record, she didn’t lie to all her friends, just Cera and Ruby. :p) In my view, Ducky has been so underused in the series that whenever the LBT people bother to allow her to display a broader range of emotions and behavior, she comes off as having broken character (at least in some fans’ opinions). I’m all for giving her her own movie. :yes



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aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)

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Point taken, Pangaea. You are right about me becoming accustomed to her complacentness, and actually, upon reviewing the "Sky Colored Stones" thread, I found an impassioned post defending Ducky written by me  (:o !) defending her actions, so I think I spoke too soon. I'll still be slightly nervous if a movie came out championing her as the protagonist, but I would definitely see it.


Pikkutassu

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1. I would bring back the smooth, detailed animation style and immersive audio of the first TLBT.
2. Leave the absurd characters out.
3. Give up the songs and replace them with great music like in the first TLBT.
4. Get rid of Jack Bauer as Littlefoot's dad.
5. For the Finnish version I would get rid of that female voice for Littlefoot in all sequels after TLBT 3.


DarkHououmon

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Personally I think Bron's voice is fine the way it is.


brekclub85

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I'd enjoy it if the sequels had more continuity, if the gang would mention the events and characters of previous films, because except for 2 and 5 and 11-13, the sequels could be watched in any order and the plot will still make sense, which isn't necessarily a bad thing though.


Belmont2500

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Quote from: Pikkutassu,Nov 24 2009 on  01:49 PM
1. I would bring back the smooth, detailed animation style and immersive audio of the first TLBT.
2. Leave the absurd characters out.
3. Give up the songs and replace them with great music like in the first TLBT.
4. Get rid of Jack Bauer as Littlefoot's dad.
5. For the Finnish version I would get rid of that female voice for Littlefoot in all sequels after TLBT 3.
Jack Bauer,was he the one who voiced Bron in the finnish version because in the english version its Keifer Sutherland(the guy from 24).

Here's what I would do:

1. get rid of the singing.

2.have both Horner's score(any scene) and an epic orchestal score(during sharptooth chases and fights) .

3. get some of the best voice actors around and bring some back,like Kenneth Mars.

4. make Ali the way she was in LBT4.

5.bring back the LBT1 animation.

6.only add absurd characters if they are going to die at one point,better yet, just leave them out,especially the yellowbellies, I can't stand them.

7. give Sharptooth and Littlefoot's mother a cameo, and have LF's mother's design the same as in LBT1.



 

 


Daddytops2009

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My interest for the sequels are nearly gone, but they are worth a rewatch for nostalgia.


Paradise Bird

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I have no idea how Malte figure all of that out  :rolleyes:
I think I would make the show more objective


Bruton the Iguanodon

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Oh yeah! I'm finally gonna say what my thoughts in this topic!  :smile

1. Go back to the animation of 2-4 and don't use bright colors.
2. Make the movies at least an hour and a half.
3. Get rid of the songs, or else keep only the ones that are serious. Keep ballads that are meaningful and enjoyable, such as "No one has to be alone", but not ones that are overdone---like "Bestest Friends"---or will bore kids out of their wits, such as "Grandma's Lullaby" and "Family". On top of this, include songs that are not ballads but are serious...I mean, c'mon, is Mr. Threehorn's "Standing Tough" gonna remain the only one that qualifies as this?
4. Don't be afraid to make the sequels darker! Seriously, these films have so much potential to be the best kids show ever created, and they're being waaaaayyy toned down from what they have the potential to be! Have them in more perilous situations! Create darker plotlines! Oh, and while you're at it...
5. Make the sharpteeth scarier. Post 7, the scariest sharptooth we've gotten is the one in 9. Make them actually lethal!!
6. Don't make the sky red in times of danger.
7. No annoying/disgusting characters. Characters Dinah, Dana, Tippy, the yellowbellies, the tinysaureses, and the imaginary friends should never have been allowed into the franchise. I wouldn't even include Tickles...I remember really disliking him as a kid.
8. Use instrumental score over the credits, please, not songs; or  at least make them really good (like in 1 and 9) or with some visuals to go along with it (like in movie 2).


That's all I can think of for now.