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The nature of many fanfictions

Malte279 · 107 · 14982

action9000

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I guess the best way for me to explain why G is so hard for me is because I quickly lose interest in the idea if it stays G.
That is probably why many people "outgrow" the LBT series; it just become too elementary for them.  They move onto longer, more complex stories with more 'mature' content.


Malte279

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So blood, sex, and gore are all that can keep you interested? Should not the land before time movies, the way they are, be the perfect counterproof? They don't have any extreme violence and if there is any, it is usually the one caused by nature's design of carnivores. How often did you try to write LBT stories within the boundaries? Looking at the writings at fanfiction.net I don't get the impression that very many fans ever thought about an LBT story that doesn't include humans, aliens from outer space, blood, gore, violence etc.


DarkHououmon

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I never said that blood and gore were the only things that keep me interested, nor did I ever say that I liked sex....


Malte279

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I apologize for my harsh tone.
It is excessive violence in particular however that makes stories PG rather than G, so when you write, that G is so hard for you because you quickly lose interest in the idea, this does sound like the elements I named are what alone makes stories interesting enough to be written.
I admit that I'm kind of radical on this, but there is almost not a single land before time story out there which sticks to the limits. When I read about the atrocious things supposed fans of LBT want to do to the characters it really makes me wonder about them. When I read fanfictions whose whole text and action is nothing but a star wars ripoff (with stalactites serving as light sabers and the author not even telling how Littlefoot is supposed to hold one when he uses it to slaughter a whold tribe of sharpteeth) I really wonder if those people are completely incapable of thinking of their own stories, and when I read about the obvious incapability of anyone to keep humans, aliens from outer space, and other non-LBT elements out of such stories I really wonder whats so extremely difficult about this.
There are many fanfictions out there which, as a devoted fan, I can consider nothing better than... (censored).
This wouldn't be so bad if only there were at least some attempts from some fans to write actual LBT stories, but nobody seems to be willing to give it so much as a try. Sometimes it makes me fear that a majority of LBT fans is actually a rather violence loving, bloodthirsty lot, taking unexpected delight in the innards of LBT characters!  :angry:
Does this sound offensive? I suppose so. But looking through those supposed fanfiction you will find that I have at least some good points for getting such an impression and if you (everybody) cannot share my frustration at least you may be able to see where it comes from.


DarkHououmon

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I do believe it's harder to write a story stuck to the limits than it is to be free to write what you wish, how you wish. When you don't stick to the standards, your imagination is more free, and there are more options. But confined, it's harder to come up with a story that sticks strictly to the limits. That's what I believe anyway.


Megatoph

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well the fact of the manner is that Fanfics are what they are Fanfiction story's if you give someone a piece-o-papper and ask them to write a LBT story and told them to be creative they will  evidently write a story that they love-to-death but you might not like but amazingly I have to admit theres storys on FF.net and other sites that turn my stomake once I read a story where someone wrote a story were the gang was killed buy the metior and died a horrible and in most cases disgusting death. that was verry painfull for me to read it. but I did not allow it to effect me cause I can tell this story was to one day be deleted.

as for my storys I must also admit they are PG-13 even R rated at times but I have the hart to makesure the main charactors in the story are delt with respect.

in almost every story theres a certain respect you just have to read it to find it.


DarkHououmon

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Same with me. I never just kill off a character for the heck of it. Nor do I allow any sort of dislike toward the character affect my decision of what to do with them in the story. I'm not a character basher.


Megatoph

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right. I'd never do something to dishonor the charactors nor the folk who put there blood, sweat, and tears in the saga. I.E. if I make a LBT story R rated it doesn't mean I'm gonna kill of the main charactors. I'm also not a main charactor basher I love them no matter what.


action9000

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I do believe it's harder to write a story stuck to the limits than it is to be free to write what you wish, how you wish. When you don't stick to the standards, your imagination is more free, and there are more options. But confined, it's harder to come up with a story that sticks strictly to the limits. That's what I believe anyway.
This goes back to what I was saying about the importance of theme in the art world.  If the theme keeps changing, the audience becomes confused as to what world they're in.  The ability to keep a consistant theme and keep the audience within the world that the story builds for them, is key to making strong, powerful art.  The randomness and lack of structure and theme found in many LBT stories tends to cause the story to completely drift from its original intent (as an LBT universe fanfic) into a random, unknown world where events can occur that no reader can prepare for or understand.  This is because the story is outside of the theme (universe) of the LBT world, and LBT fans can no longer relate this story to the LBT world.  In short, its effect as an LBT-based fanfic, is lost.

The ability to write within limits, I believe, separates the good artists from the great artists.  A good artist can come up with a theme and progress it in a direction.  A great artist can vary and move the story (or other form of art) while remaining within the central theme of the piece of art.

That is what I believe.


Megatoph

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forgive me Action9000 but I don't get what your saying. do you think FanFics go out of topic with LBT or does the storys go out of topic with them selfs?


action9000

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I'm saying that many fanfics drift away from their original idea.  They start off with one idea, then jump around so erractically that the original idea is completely lost on the reader.


Megatoph

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OH ok. simply put the storys go OFF TOPIC I read you now.


Petrie.

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We just had this same thing pop up at another board I happen to have a considerable charge over....the purists vs. the ones who want to change a thing here and there.  A compromise was sort of reached where a bit of extra stuff not seen in the original source would be allowed in a role play, but not so much that we had lost our original vision.  I'm sure there's a fine balance in fanfictions too.


action9000

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I really wonder if those people are completely incapable of thinking of their own stories, and when I read about the obvious incapability of anyone to keep humans, aliens from outer space, and other non-LBT elements out of such stories I really wonder whats so extremely difficult about this.
I think the truth is, most people simply don't want to, or don't have an interest to do so.

It honestly seems to me that the 'war' going on between the advocates of "Pure" fanfics and "non-pure" fanfics is based around a simple concept:

Pure fanfics are written by people with mindset A, for people with mindset A.
Non-pure fanfics are written by people with mindset B, for people with mindset B.

In other words, they are almost completely different styles of writing, written by different people, written for different people. It simply seems that more people have mindset B than mindset A, and comparing them directly is very difficult.

If people with mindset A don't like mindset B's fanfics, I suppose the As have to live with that.  And vice versa.  The main reason the people in mindset A are fighting this so hard (mainly Malte, but I am a strong supporter of pure LBT fanfics, myself, at least to the point of taking a role in the strict LBT RPG and arguing the value of an pure LBT fanfic in this forum), is because there are so few people with mindset A.  Malte stands basically alone in this fight, and I do say, I admire his ability to stand tall, while surrounded by people who may not understand his reasoning.  

A problem we have in today's world, is that LBT world has expanded so far that perhaps some people have a hard time drawing the lines between "LBT Element" and "Non-LBT element."  After all, the series has had its share of odd incidents, such as freakish weather (LBT 8), dinosaurs that don't exist (LBT 11), dreams shared among all longnecks (LBT 10), the crazy sky during the eclipse (LBT 10), flowers which seem to heal instantly (LBT 4), and even aliens (LBT 7).  Who can honestly say what is reasonable in the LBT world anymore?  How does a writer know exactly where to draw the line?  I think it just comes down to reasoning and consideration of the logic of the story element, but there is no definite way to define what could be in an LBT story.  The artist needs to internally understand where the line is if they wish to write a pure LBT fic.  I think many of us know when we see an element that is clearly gone out of the LBT world, but I think it's impossible to define clearly what can and can't be in a pure LBT story.

I would just like to say, Malte, that I am with you on this matter;  Perhaps not to the point of being against Non-Pure fanfics (while I do prefer pure LBT fanfics myself, I see no strong reason to argue against non-pure fanfics), but I agree that pure LBT fanfics have a special feeling about them, the psychological feeling of being connected to the series while having fresh and new ideas.  In my eyes, a pure LBT fanfic feels like an extension of the series we know and love.  A non-pure LBT fanfic feels like nothing more than a fictional novel or story using existing characters.  It takes much effort and talent to create a fresh idea while keeping such strong ties to the original film, and I respect you, Malte, for supporting the idea. B)

To everyone on side B (the non-purist side) of the fanfic realm, let me just say that I respect your work and waht you do.  You are a different kind of people than those of us on Side A, and you write for a different audience.  There is a good share of strong, non-pure LBT fanfics out there as well.  Keep up the good work, but keep the work relatively clean for this forum. B)


action9000

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I'm going to extend my ideas of my last post a bit:

This is a bit of a 'leap of faith' if you will, but I'm going to attempt to dive into the minds of each side and try to explain what each side *may* be thinking.

The purists (aka, Mindset A):
"I'm going to write a pure LBT fanfic for all LBT fans to enjoy.  It's important to me to keep the feeling of the original films in my fanfic, so the reader can become attached to my story just like they become attached to the originals."

The Non-purists (aka, Mindset B ):
"The LBT world as we know it is so limited, but it has so much potential for expansion.  Why not use it, and everyone can appreciate my fanfic's unique creativity and people can enjoy the LBT characters in brand new situations?  Why intentionally limit my options when there is unlimited freedom in the world of art and fiction?  I don't necessarily intend to disturb people with violent content, nor do I necessarily approve of excessive violence.  I want to bring a new level of creativity to the LBT universe and use it to its full potential, like a great novel or hollywood movie."

The problem is that the purists tend to believe that the non-purists are heartless killers with no respect for the original characters, and the non-purists believe that the purists have limited thinking, and see no reason to limit creativity.  After all, isn't art supposed to be boundless and expressive?

The fact is, I don't believe that non-purists have an overly violent or agressive nature, nor do I believe that purists have poor creativity.  It seems as though both sides have misinterpretted the other sides's artistic expression.  Just because Spielberg's films have violent content, is Spielberg, or are his writers, violent, 'evil' people?  I think not; it is there for the sake of the art that is being shown.  

I will agree that some non-pure LBT fanfics are very violent in nature, but that is the way the writer intended it to be.  The world has its share of R-rated films.  Fanfics deserve to have this same freedom.  If one person doesn't like the violence, then that story probably isn't intended for that audience.  Every piece of writing is written to a select audience; I have been taught this concept since about grade 5 or 6.  Also, just because the audience who reads a violent fanfic enjoys it, that does not mean that the reader is overly violent or aggressive.  Heck, I enjoyed the movie "Con Air" which is quite violent.  For those of you who know me, I'm not a violent person. :P:

I understand that the violence itself isn't the issue; ths issue is the detail in which it is expressed in some fanfics (such as describing how various parts of a character's body are mutilated).  A few of us worry about what sorts of people it must take to write such detailed descriptions.  The truth is, while a shread of violent nature may be a factor, I believe such writers are experiementing and trying to develop their skills.  I'm sure that some writers were taught to describe a scene in its entirety, as some people lack the imagination to create the scene in their minds for themselves.  I've heard of such a writing style being taught before, and it wouldn't surprise me to see such writers among us.

Fans of the LBT characters tend to want to experiment with different circumstances, away from the "same old, same old" of the film series, at least that is my theory.  Purists love the series as it is and desire to see what the fans can come up with that works in the world they already love.  They are two distinct groups who will probably never agree.  Nevertheless, I believe we can live in harmony and understand each other for who we are.


Petrie.

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^ That sounds a lot like our very long MSN convo the other day.  :P:  Too bad I didn't save it...should've posted it here...I think a lot could've been learned from it.


Malte279

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Brilliant and thorough summary of the whole issue Tim.
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It honestly seems to me that the 'war' going on between the advocates of "Pure" fanfics and "non-pure" fanfics is based around a simple concept:
I hate to think of myself as a "warrior", but I must admit that my own stand on the whole matter has become ever more radical the more radical the fanfictions I read became. This is something that worries me very much. I don't tend to be radical and I usually have very great respect for ideas and opinions different from my own. This respect has become ever less in case of LBT fanfictions.
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The main reason the people in mindset A are fighting this so hard (mainly Malte, but I am a strong supporter of pure LBT fanfics, myself, at least to the point of taking a role in the strict LBT RPG and arguing the value of an pure LBT fanfic in this forum), is because there are so few people with mindset A.
I guess this is one point. Another is the nature of the stuff usually added to LBT names in the fanfictions. The stuff usually picked up for LBT fanfictions, is usually so extremely far from the land before time. Humans, Zombies, Cyborgs, Robots, time travels (suggestsions such as placing Littlefoot and the others at Pearl Harbor on December 7th 1941 and even (get this! :angry:) in Auschwitz!), lots and lots of Aliens from outer space (kinds that don't even look like dinosaurs as those rainbowfaces did), lots and lots of weapons and characters using them with lustfully, and tons and tons of dialogues which are very poor rip offs from movies like Titanic and Star Wars.
If indeed it was so much about the writers being so creative, why is it that so often the result is a mere patchwork of different movies with little to no own ideas at all? Wouldn't it be much more creative in this case to come up with an entirely own story? Creating an own world in which the author is the one to decide about rules following only the own laws?
That way there wouldn't be any limitations whatsoever, you would be the only ones to be credited for the content of your stories, and the difference to the LBT fanfictions I'm refering to would often be so marginal that there would be little more than a change of character names.
I'm being very unfair if I write as if every fanfiction write who doesn't stick to the rules had no fantasy or talent. Many of you definitely do.
I read most of Jason's Battle of the Sacred essences, a story which on the one hand contains almost everything I disapprove of in LBT stories, yet is on the other hand so well written, so excitingly told, with so interesting characters, and so strong emotion that even I cannot deny its charm. The story is well written and Jason deserves all the credit he can get for that.
And still such stories always leave the impression for me that two non-fitting parts of a jigsaw puzzle were taped roughly together. This impression is much stronger in case of the fanfictions which are not written with as much passion as Battle of the Sacret Essences. I regret I have to repeat that in many of the stories the authors can't seem to wait for their massacres to begin. Again I'm not saying that all writers of LBT fanfictions with non-LBT elements are that way, but many are.
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A problem we have in today's world, is that LBT world has expanded so far that perhaps some people have a hard time drawing the lines between "LBT Element" and "Non-LBT element." After all, the series has had its share of odd incidents, such as freakish weather (LBT 8), dinosaurs that don't exist (LBT 11), dreams shared among all longnecks (LBT 10), the crazy sky during the eclipse (LBT 10), flowers which seem to heal instantly (LBT 4), and even aliens (LBT 7).
All too true (except (off topic) that in fact there are two Triassic species which very much resembled the Tinysaurs). I suppose it is difficult for everyone to draw a clear line between what would be possible in an LBT movie and what wouldn't. Yet a vague line is possible, and I don't think I'm too subjective when I claim that all the human-, zombie-, cyborg-, slaughter stuff would be way beyond even a very vague line marking the possibilities of what might happen in an LBT movie.
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The problem is that the purists tend to believe that the non-purists are heartless killers with no respect for the original characters, and the non-purists believe that the purists have limited thinking, and see no reason to limit creativity. After all, isn't art supposed to be boundless and expressive?
While I'm not yet quite there, I must confess that my view about the writers of the fanfictions I'm talking about is shifting ever more in that direction, the more of these stories or story ideas I'm reading. I'm ever more under the impression that people will cheer just everything provided it quenches their thirst for blood and science fiction in a not overly violent, non-science fiction genre. I would love to be disproven by those authors, or much rather by the stories they write.
As for the question of art, I'm rather sceptical about taking a shade of somebody elses art and then add plenty of stuff to it that doesn't fit at all. This is being done in many fields of art. Depending on the different messages sent by the art (or in this case the stories) the result is sometimes something that deserves to be labeled a "perversion" of the original idea (a process which can be observed not only in arts).
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I will agree that some non-pure LBT fanfics are very violent in nature, but that is the way the writer intended it to be. The world has its share of R-rated films. Fanfics deserve to have this same freedom. If one person doesn't like the violence, then that story probably isn't intended for that audience. Every piece of writing is written to a select audience; I have been taught this concept since about grade 5 or 6.
And this is where I gradually become scared of myself. I used to be able to just shrug off the fanfictions with non-LBT content and say "why would I care?". I'm afraid I'm loosing this stoicism more and more. It would be better if I could care so little about the non-LBT LBT stories. There is almost no possibility to evade them however. Look at the fanfictions that exist, look at the threads about new story ideas, look at the RPGs... the non-LBT stories, even in their extremest form, are to be found at every inofficial place that may be interesting for LBT fans, while on the other hand it becomes more difficult to find pure LBT stuff at those places.


DarkHououmon

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Hmm... a friend of mine, Cunomon I like to call her, is writing a Land Before Time fanfic. I told her about this place and she said she'll post it here. You might like this fanfic, Malte, because it's very close to being, what you call, a true LBT fanfic. The only difference is that it takes place a few generations after LBT.


pokeplayer984

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Well, I like to think of LBT 4's so called non-ture element to be very true.

The way I look at that is simple.  Grandpa Longneck had a certian illness and only a certian plant could cure him.  Of course, there is the concept of the plant making him feel so good right away.  However, I've known certian things, such as caffine and cocaine, to have the side effect of making one feel incredably good almost instantly.  Maybe that was a possible side effect of the Nightflower.  You immediately feel better, but in reality, you are not.  Overtime, the Nightflower kills whatever illness it is.  That's at least the way I think of it. :)

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dreams shared among all longnecks (LBT 10)

That may not be as much of a non-true thing as one may think.  I have discussed this before with Malte, though at that time, I did have somewhat of a different POV.  It is said that when more than one person, as well as multiple times, has the same dream, it means something important is going to happen.  However, there is one concept with this that doesn't seem to fit.  Now, I can understand Grandma, Grandpa, Littlefoot and Bron to all have the same dream.  In their case, one would believe it was meant to help them all be reunited.  Sue had the same dream, and ended up finding the love of her life.  As for the rest of the longnecks, it seems to be only becuase of the Solar Eclipse.  I understand that to be quite a wonderful thing to witness.  Chances are that you'll be lucky to see it even once in your life.  However, it is still a question of whether it was so important that a dream should occur, depicting it happening.

So, as you can see, that LBT one is still questionalbe. :^.^:

I'll discuss more later.  I've got to go now.

See ya. :)


Malte279

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Hmm... a friend of mine, Cunomon I like to call her, is writing a Land Before Time fanfic. I told her about this place and she said she'll post it here. You might like this fanfic, Malte, because it's very close to being, what you call, a true LBT fanfic. The only difference is that it takes place a few generations after LBT.
I'm really looking forward to read this story  :yes
Also I'm looking forward to meet a new member here in the GOF.