The Gang of Five
The Land Before Time => General Land Before Time => Topic started by: rosie on September 08, 2008, 11:49:26 PM
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What was the name of the episode? Who died in the episode and how did they die?Did they all die by those sharptooth? Why did they listen to him in the first place?
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Episode? Don't you mean movie? It was in the Land Before Time VII: The Stone of Cold Fire.
The sharptooth were mainly the cause of it, but a lot of the plant-eaters panicked and perhaps fell to their deaths. It does show a parasaurlophus fall to its death.
As for if they all died, that's hard to say. The movie doesn't really show us if they did, though not a lot of them did survive, because things looked pretty hopeless for them, hence Pterano fleeing. It was said that the herd never saw any of those that followed Pterano again, but why would they? If they survived, they were a pretty fertile place, I doubt they would want to leave, no matter what kind of experience they had there.
They could have listened to him because they thought that the other's way of making decisions as a group was a bad system. The grown-ups have been shown to be somewhat slow acting (hence why Littlefoot and the gang usually have to go off and fix things themselves.) perhaps that was a factor. Or maybe it was similar to the reason that Ducky, Petrie, and Spike followed Cera, rather then Littlefoot. Perhaps Pterano's route was easier. Any number of these could have been a factor in their decision to follow Pterano.
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and that was the wrong choice because:
everybody that followed pterano has been killed by an legion of velociraptors except for pterano himself,
the cheap *****
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Hold on a minute...they incriminated Pterano for what happened but it wasn't really his fault was it? How could he have known that the sharpteeth would attack them? The very same thing had just has much chance of happening to the main group but it was a matter of luck that it didn't.
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I forgot who it was that said it, I"ll get the dvd so I get the quite right.
Found it:
Petrie: "But he right. It not his fault others not know how to fly away. "
Grandpa longneck: "Nevertheless, it was his fault that they got into such danger."
Grandma Longneck: "A real leader must be ready to take the credit when things go good and the blame for when they go bad."
Cera's Dad: "But not Pterano, oh no. He kept changing his story, & lieing, & scheming & ...."
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Petrie does point out in the movie that it was not his uncle's fault that the others did not know how to fly away upon which Littlefoot's grandparents say something to the effect that it was his fault that they had gone into that trap in the first place and that a leader must be willing to take the blame when things go wrong same as the credit if things go right. Pterano however had always persisted that it had not been his fault.
Even though we do see him displaying something of a guilty conscience (we see his memory of the Parasaurolophus falling to her death flickering up when Ducky is about to do the same) we never hear any direct confession or sign of remorse from him (one that would go beyond a sad face at Sierra's remark of Pterano growing used to loosing those he is in charge of).
There are some elements in that flashback though which are not directly pointed out by the movie narrators even though they may be of significance.
The narrator mainly points out Pterano's ambitiousness to lead everyone else and as for his guilt it is (apart from the fact that he never accepted the blame) left to us to figure out that Pterano could have prevented the whole incidence if he had scouted more carefully (which would be relatively easy for a flyer).
In one of my stories, "Old Threehorns", the Pterano incidence plays a crucial role as the story involves one (the only one) survivor of it. One thing that struck me in the flashback is that the attack on Pterano and his followers apparently occurred in a small, but lush and green valley. Remember how desolate and clear of any green food the landscapes of the original movie (which would be the time and setting of the Pterano incident) were? Hence my theory that after the union of the different herds Pterano discovered the small green valley on a scouting flight (it would be only natural for flyers to reconnoiter for the rest of the herd to see if their destination or any danger lies ahead), and disillusioned from the long journey and the fact that the Great Valley was little more than a myth (though this is later changed in the sequels we don't have any however slight indication in the original movie that anyone had actually seen the Great Valley with the own eyes) Pterano may have suggested to the herd to settle down their instead of continuing what must have appeared like a doomed endeavor to many.
This interpretation would give some reason why so mixed a herd would follow him in the first place and it may well be that it also contributed to the strong rift between Pterano and Littlefoot's grandpa (who by all likelihood would have been strongly in favor of continuing the search for the Great Valley).
Apart from his refusal to accept the blame and to admit his fault it is difficult to decide if Pterano could / should have acted differently once the damage was done (once the Sharpteeth attacked his followers). Of course he could have stayed with his followers to be killed along with them, but whether or not that would have been the "right" thing to do pretty much depends on our personal philosophy I suppose. After all nobody would have benefited from his death and none of the others would have ever learned about the fate of Pterano's followers. The most natural demand one could make from Pterano would be to try to distract the Sharpteeth to allow his followers to escape. However, with the only entrance to the Valley (the only one we know of at least) being blocked by several sharpteeth, with the number of the sharpteeth, and the fact that those sharpteeth really meant "business" rather than allowing themselves to be defeated in as ridiculous and childish a manner as has been the case with all the later sequels sharpteeth Pterano's chances would have been about zero to achieve anything in exchange for his life.
I want not, and can not talk away the blame on Pterano for not making sure the way was safe and for not accepting the blame once the damage was done. However, as for his flying for safety I am not sure if that is something he should be judged for too severely. I doubt anyone (no matter what we might envision while sitting comfortably in our safe and warm homes) can be sure of what he or she would do in the same situation.
(I shifted this thread to the general LBT section as it is not related to a TV episode after all.)
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Pterano could have gone to get some sort of assistance from the other herd, couldn't he or where he and his 'herd' to far away from the others by then?
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I suppose the herd was too far away. In the flashback the attack on the herd occurs in broad daylight while he arrives back at the herd in the darkness of night.
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Ah yes, I remember that.
I just always thought that Pterano for some reason stayed (hovering) to watch his companions die.....
Sounds morbid, but that was what I thought....
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Not likely I think. We see him cover his eyes with his wings even before he takes of in order to block out what is going on around him. Obviously he couldn't do the same while flying, but it makes it rather unlikely that he would have stayed around with the intention to watch it.
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I guess that is true. I apologise Malte, it's been a while since I've actually seen SOCF.
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Please, please, please do not apologize. We are having an awesome land before time discussion here. An exchange of views, theories, interpretations and facts which I'm thoroughly enjoying. I'm quite happy that this interesting topic (frequently mentioned but never in an own thread) was broached. I hope for it to continue :)
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What if Pterno is the fault of Cera's mom death? :blink: . What if the Cera's mom and sisters were part of that herd that got killed by the sharptooth?
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Strangely I saw a fanfic one time that had Cera's mom's sister be in the group that got killed. It was an interesting fic, about the whole adults journey to the Valley from Mr. Thicknose's point of view...did someone here write it :)
Anyway, if not I may have to try to look it up for you all now that you've reminded me of it.
Either explanation though would lend credibility to why Topsy hates Pterano so much (not that it's really needed...but it would be one more nail in the coffin as it were)
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What if Pterno is the fault of Cera's mom death?
When writing that story, "Old Threehorns" I considered this idea, but decided against it because it would be unlikely for Cera to forget about the Pterano incidence if it had been where Cera's mother and her sisters would have been lost (the beginning of LBT 7 suggests that Cera had been told by her father about the Pterano incidence, but that she had forgotten what exactly happened; apart from Pterano's ban from the herd). Also if Cera's mother and her sisters would have been with Pterano, while Tops remained with the herd this would suggest some sort of break between the two that would be tricky to account for.
Nevertheless I agree that Tops' wrath on Pterano seems personal enough to make it not unlikely that he did loose someone he knew in that incidence. In the story I made that someone a very close friend of Tops and his family and he is also the only survivor I mentioned before.
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I doubt Topsy would allow his mate to leave with Pterano and the other dinosaurs anyway.
Malte I hope that you aren't angry that I apologise, it's an impulse that I would like to stop. Am trying to anyway...will broach it will my therapist next time.
As to Topsy's wrath being more personal, perhaps (these are only suggestions) maybe one or more of his immediate family went with him instead? After all, in the original movie the 'leaf eaters' stopped only to hatch the young and they where in herds to begin with anyway.....
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Don't worry Saft, I'm not angry at all, but I know that reflex from others. Sometimes I'm afraid I come across as somewhat scary or intimidating to some members of our community though this is absolutely not my intention :unsure:
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I've just remembered that when Pterano returns, why didn't he actually tell the truth. All he said was that 'it wasn't his fault'.
Did he feel that he was to blame for it, or would have been blamed? Or do you think he, thought that he could have done something about the attack instead of fleeing?
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I suppose Pterano kept pretending to himself that he was not to blame at all for anything that had happened thus refusing any responsibility. From what is said in LBT 7 his refusal to take the blame may have been at least as much responsible for the ban as the incident itself.
I guess Pterano could even talk himself into believing that he had done nothing wrong at all while his subconsciousness or perhaps rather his conscience did not play along with his pretense.
I do not think that once the damage was done there was much that Pterano could have done. Unless we presume the sharpteeth of the flashbacks to be as harmless and silly as those of some later sequels (they did not make that impression though) I don't think Pterano could have done anything to stop the massacre once it began. What he could and should have done as the leader of a herd was to scout ahead (something particularly easy for him as a flyer) to make sure that the dangerous terrain (dangerous because of the lack of escape routes and the cover for potential ambushers) was safe. If he had done that he probably could have prevented the whole thing.
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Pterano did strike me as (not what you would call immature) one of those personalities were they don't accept as though they are in the wrong, or have done anything wrong.
I always speculated that Petrie's mother was Pterano's elder sibling and he the youngest. She has a stronger personality but as we know, the younger sibling may have a stronger more tougher personality than the elder. So I guess that doesn't really count but it's interesting to think that perhaps Pterano was slightly wary of his sister. Well, that is how it seemed to me. After all who would want to face Petrie's mum (who is played by Tress Macnille; who does many voices in The Simpsons most noted as Agnes Skinner)?
He should have scouted the area first anyway, before setting off but I guess because he was 'leader' he felt that he was too important for the task that he (and his sister) held when they were in the other herd. It was a descision that cost many lives, a descision that he did regret later on and prevented Ducky from falling to her death.
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It may well be as you say Saft. I absolutely agree with your assessment of Pterano considering himself infallible (a fact most distinctly confirmed in the song "Very important me", which by the content of information and relevance for the story is one of the most important LBT songs though, in my opinion, artistically inferior to some others).
I've always been under the impression of the German translation of the movie though in which Petrie's mother repeatedly refers to Pterano as a cousin rather than a brother (which would make him an uncle once removed of Petrie's). The English original does not provide any such suggestion but it may explain a certain coldness towards Pterano on the part of Petrie's mother. Of course she has good reason not to be too closely associated with him, but her attitude towards him (in particular the attitude before he abducted Ducky providing her with very current reason to dislike him) does not look too much like that of a sister (unless in case of a really deeply fractured relationship).
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Hmm, I dont know, I never found a problem with her detachment being part of the brother/sister relationship. As Grandma Longneck hints, she did take Pterano's being kicked out hard even if she didn't stop it since, how could she if he was truly in the wrong and Grandpa Longenck and the others in the right.
Plus it's not like she could just tag along to check up on Pterano since she has her whole brood to look after.
I always just got the impression she was probably older and very very disappointed in where Pterano's life was heading. Secretly hoping he would change, but not naive about such like Petrie and realizing how it would take a big jolt (such as he seems to get after the Ducky incident) to cause such.
Again though just spewing my thoughts.
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As Grandma Longneck hints, she did take Pterano's being kicked out hard
Good point, I hadn't thought of that one. You are referring to grandma longneck addressing Pterano's mum right before the start of the flashback, don't you? It is not quite a proof about the relationship question (alas I think this is a case where there are no absolute proves but one of the cases where everyone has to decide for him or herself what to believe) but it is definitely a statement indicating attachment on the part of Petrie's mother.
I totally agree with your assessment of her character as not as naive as Petrie and probably disappointed about Pterano.
In "Old Threehorns" I wrote a little dialogue between Pterano and Petrie's mum (named Pterana in the story as a result of me mishearing a line in LBT 9) which takes place shortly after by an extremely narrow vote (one vote in his favor and everyone else abstaining) he was permitted to stay in the Great Valley for the time being. It is torn out of context of course, but because it shows my view on their relationships quite nicely (while not proving anything of course) I'm posting the excerpt with that dialogue here:
Pterano had only just settled down on another tree branch, among a group of threehorns, he didn’t know by name, but whom he had often seen during the last days, when he spotted a shape zigzagging between the tree trunks and finally heading straight for him. Pterano frowned slightly when he saw that it was his sister Pterana. He was secretly relieved that she hadn’t come earlier. What if she had caught him talking with Styrax, no matter how harmless the talk? He waved her, but it was unnecessary, she had spotted him already, landed on the branch beside him and folded her wings. “There you are”, she said. “I was looking for you.” “What’s the matter?” asked Pterano. “Did something happen?”
“No, nothing at all. The old longneck sent me for your company.”
Pterano snorted and felt double-offended: “You mean he sent you to have an eye on me, don’t you? And you wouldn’t have come if he had not ordered you to, would you?”
Pterana seemed to be neither surprised, nor offended at the grim reaction. She stated bluntly: “As for your first question; yes, I do think that the idea is that I shall keep an eye on you.
And as for the second question; no, I volunteered to do this. Old longneck just asked for someone to fly after you. He cannot give orders to anyone the way you seem to fancy it.” “Alright then”, said Pterano. “Watch me and hurry to raise the alarm if I make a slip!”
Pterana uttered something that might have been a snort as well as a sigh and said:
“You know, you don’t exactly make trusting you much easier.”
Pterano laughed dryly: “Sure you must know, much as you trust me! You didn’t vote in my favor!”
“Nor did I vote against you. Nor did anyone else vote against you, not even the old longneck, the threehorn, or the mother of Ducky, who you kidnapped the last time you came here.
Each of them has good reasons not to trust or like you. But still they didn’t vote against you!
I don’t know what you expected, but altogether having nothing but your own words and Petrie on your side, I don’t think that you could expect anything better.”
Pterano didn’t answer. Nobody but himself could actually be sure about what he had done for the good of the Great Valley. Maybe it was not too bad to have a witness after all. When Pterano didn’t respond Pterana continued:
“And as for myself, if I hadn’t any trust in you at all, why would I have shown myself to you instead of trying to observe you secretly? And why would I talk to you and tell you the truth that you seem to be unable or unwilling to see?”
Pterano was about to give an angry response, but he swallowed it. Actually seeing things the way Pterana had described them was somewhat comforting. Was he indeed unable to see things the way they were? He remembered the words of Styrax: “You’re overestimating yourself! And I think it was this, more than anything else that caused what made everyone else underestimating you!” Pterano nodded slowly.
“Yes”, he mumbled. “Of course. You are right. I’m sorry!”
But he didn’t sound thoroughly convinced.
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I Agree With You, Pterano Was Bad, But He Turned Good When He Said Goodbye To His Nephew Petrie.
Some Of You Know That Pterano Is My Favorite Land Before Time Character When Michael York From Three Austin Powers Movies Voiced Him.
That British Accent Is Pretty Great And I Really Appreciate That.
Pterano Will Always Be Here And We'll Always Be Waiting For Him To Return From 5 Cold Times.
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There's one story I recall reading some time ago. (I don't remember the title or who wrote it.) Where Pterano lost his best friend in that flashback, who just happen to be the brother of none other then Rinkus. If you could believe that?!
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Could you give us the link to that story?
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I can do one better the story is titled Land Before Time (Onehalf) and is by Naturalist on fanfiction.net. In fact here's that part of the story and it's in chapter 9 of said story.
"What about you, Ramfo?" asked Pterano. "Surely you believe me." (This was addressed to a longtail flyer, Pterano's best friend and the brother of a certain Rinkus who I was destined to hear about eventually.)