The Gang of Five
Beyond the Mysterious Beyond => The Arts => Silver Screen => Topic started by: F-14 Ace on December 16, 2017, 10:08:50 PM
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So this is basically a thread for those who have seen the movie or don't care to have certain things spoiled. proceed at your own risk.
So I just got back from seeing "The Last Jedi and I've gotta say it was even better than I thought it would be. It's actually better than "The Force Awakens".
First and foremost, contrary to what detractors have been saying after seeing the trailers, no, this is not just a rehash of "Empire Strikes Back". While there are similarities, the story is still original and fresh.
As big of a downer as Luke seems, he still gets quite a few funny moments. I got a good chuckle toward the beginning when Rey hands him the lightsaber. He holds it and looks at it for a couple seconds, then tosses it over his shoulder and walks away before locking himself in his hut.
Kylo Ren is definitely more impressive here than he was in "The Force Awakens". We learn more about his back story and his motivations, which makes him a more interesting character than just a Darth Vader wannabe. He has his sympathetic moments when he's not acting like homicidal maniac.
So now for the big stuff:
1. The resistance utterly gets their butts handed to them. The Rebels never got it this bad in the originally trilogy. By the end of the movie, what's left of the Resistance basically fits inside of the Millennium Falcon.
2. Kylo Ren accomplishes what Darth Vader could only dream of and kills his master, taking control of the First Order.
3. Luke dies at the end, having saved the day one last time.
4. Yoda. Oh how wonderful that was. That is all.
So, discussions, theories, opinions, etc. Feel free to chare here.
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I agree, it was a great movie. It actually had the balls to kill Luke, but in a way that felt satisfying, yet sad at the same time. I also loved how they actually showed what always seems to happen in Legends, the Dark Side betrays itself. I just hope we see, in Episode IX, the final battle that determines whether or not light or dark triumphs.
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I also loved it. I like how they have this generation doing things their own way, instead of being stuck in an endless cycle of repeating the mistakes of the past.
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I loved it too! It really went somewhere new and exciting, and had all of the complex, awesome character moments I hoped it would. Looking forward to seeing it again!
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I saw it at the theatre yesterday, and it was awesome. It was an original film, not a remake nor a sequel that copied the older films. Snoke's death was sudden and the film does nothing to explain him but other than that there weren't many flaws. Easily the best movie I've seen in 2017. I admit I got totally tricked at first when Luke survived thousands of blaster shots. :lol
I was so confused at first, I knew the force was strong but not on the level of Dragon Ball or anything, however he wasn't actually physically there.
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I notice that a lot of people didn't like the subplot about Finn and Rose trying to recruit a hacker to disable a tracking device on a star destroyer. While I didn't really have a big problem with that story arc, I feel like they threw away a perfectly good opportunity to bring Lando Calrissian back. I mean, when they said they were looking for a gambler, Lando was who crossed my mind and I was a bit disappointed that it turned out to just be some random jerk who was in cahoots with the First Order. On top of everything else, they could have got Lando to join the Resistance, who at this point is in desperate need of new leaders. Lando, if you remember, was a general in the Rebel Alliance and would be a great asset.
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I also wasn't the biggest fan of the Rose and Finn part but I did like the thief guy and he wasn't necessarily with the First Order. He just sold the information of the evacuation shuttles for money and freedom when he realized he wouldn't get paid from the Resistance. I really like how they ended his role in the movie too. When Finn says he on the wrong side and he just says "maybe" and you never see him again. I'm glad they never went with Han Solo's cliche of coming back to save everyone at the nick of time like in IV.
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i saw it last week, and i felt a mix of emotions. it wasnt quite a empire rehash, but snoke as the Palpatine standin felt flat and underdeveloped . as Leia is still alive at the end of the film, they'll have to kill her off early on in part 9. Luke's showdown with Ren ws satisfying even though after being run through about 5 times with light sabers, you find out Luke wasnt actually there. cool trick, and one that used up most of his ( still considerable) jedi powers. and since Yoda has appeared in most of the films despite being dead past return of the Jedi, its safe to say Ghost Luke will have a part to play in 9. the side quest to find the hacker felt like padding and really didnt accomplish much. in all, a good movie, but imo not the best star wars film i've ever seen.
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I was disappointed in Ben. I thought he's gonna be all big and dark, but he's still a little kid with anger issues, who just got the power of an entire First Order legion under his command. Luke was portrayed as a human. And he is! He makes mistakes, then tries to avoid them, then tries to fix them.
It's bullsh*t that an Empire star destroyer can't catch up with the rebel ship tho, and the entire Casino planet scene felt dull and the small love line was unnecessery,
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I also wasn't the biggest fan of the Rose and Finn part but I did like the thief guy and he wasn't necessarily with the First Order. He just sold the information of the evacuation shuttles for money and freedom when he realized he wouldn't get paid from the Resistance. I really like how they ended his role in the movie too. When Finn says he on the wrong side and he just says "maybe" and you never see him again. I'm glad they never went with Han Solo's cliche of coming back to save everyone at the nick of time like in IV.
Well, it looks like my prediction was dead wrong. As you and I discussed earlier, I was dubious that they had actually finished filming all of Fisher's scenes, but it seems they did. I was surprised they allowed her to survive.
@Jalkore: I think we're supposed to be disappointed at Ben.
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My prediction for Episode 9. From the very beginning, Darth Plagueis, Sidious, Maul, Dooku, and Anakin were just pawns in a much bigger plot. The Invasion of Naboo, the Clone Wars, the downfall of the Jedi, the Empire, the Death Star, the First Order... all of it was the doing of one evil mastermind. Even Snoke and Kylo Ren were just puppets to him. There is a Dark Side user far more powerful and cunning than even Palpatine. Everything that has transpired throughout the entire saga did so according to his design. He chose to vanish shortly after the Clone Wars, but he has spent the past fifty years lurking in the shadows and watching, biding his time. Now the galaxy is weakened, divided, and weary from decades of war, strife, and turmoil. With Luke and Snoke now gone, the galaxy will tremble in fear before the might of... Darth Meesa. It's been staring us in the face the whole time! (http://cdn.wegotthiscovered.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/DL0dXwsWsAACBYq.jpg)
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My prediction for Episode 9. From the very beginning, Darth Plagueis, Sidious, Maul, Dooku, and Anakin were just pawns in a much bigger plot. The Invasion of Naboo, the Clone Wars, the downfall of the Jedi, the Empire, the Death Star, the First Order... all of it was the doing of one evil mastermind. Even Snoke and Kylo Ren were just puppets to him. There is a Dark Side user far more powerful and cunning than even Palpatine. Everything that has transpired throughout the entire saga did so according to his design. He chose to vanish shortly after the Clone Wars, but he has spent the past fifty years lurking in the shadows and watching, biding his time. Now the galaxy is weakened, divided, and weary from decades of war, strife, and turmoil. With Luke and Snoke now gone, the galaxy will tremble in fear before the might of... Darth Meesa. It's been staring us in the face the whole time! (http://cdn.wegotthiscovered.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/DL0dXwsWsAACBYq.jpg)
And I kind of hope the two sides (Resistance/New Republic and The First Order) are forced to live with each other instead of one of both sides getting obliterated.
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I had many high hopes for the sequel trilogy to say the least... up until Snoke gets the axe in which all hope disappears for me in terms of the writing competency of the new trilogy. We have no backstory for Snoke, we have no distinct personality for him, and heck even Palpatine had much more to work with in the original trilogy than Snoke ever did. Snoke, in hindsight, was built up by the writers and cast members as this huge threat, but it's ultimately a very bad case of Show, Don't Tell considering Snoke doesn't even get dignified an actual fight as Kylo Ren ultimately kills him without any real amount of effort.
Palpatine, meanwhile, is only hyped up as the Big Bad by the entire plot and characters of the original trilogy concerning the mere idea that someone like Darth Vader has someone higher up in power than him in the first place is naturally a scary thing to consider, and when we finally see Palpatine in the flesh, he more or less proves exactly why he's such a threat by demonstrating to Luke that even if Darth Vader could ultimately be redeemed, there is no salvaging Palpatine at all by comparison, hence why Darth Vader ultimately has to throw him to his death to save Luke from his potential demise at the hand of Force Lightning.
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I had many high hopes for the sequel trilogy to say the least... up until Snoke gets the axe in which all hope disappears for me in terms of the writing competency of the new trilogy. We have no backstory for Snoke, we have no distinct personality for him, and heck even Palpatine had much more to work with in the original trilogy than Snoke ever did. Snoke, in hindsight, was built up by the writers and cast members as this huge threat, but it's ultimately a very bad case of Show, Don't Tell considering Snoke doesn't even get dignified an actual fight as Kylo Ren ultimately kills him without any real amount of effort.
Palpatine, meanwhile, is only hyped up as the Big Bad by the entire plot and characters of the original trilogy concerning the mere idea that someone like Darth Vader has someone higher up in power than him in the first place is naturally a scary thing to consider, and when we finally see Palpatine in the flesh, he more or less proves exactly why he's such a threat by demonstrating to Luke that even if Darth Vader could ultimately be redeemed, there is no salvaging Palpatine at all by comparison, hence why Darth Vader ultimately has to throw him to his death to save Luke from his potential demise at the hand of Force Lightning.
I LOVE the fact they axed Snoke, because he's just a Palpatine copy. It's called a Bait and Switch. They built Snoke up and then whipped the carpet out from under you. That's not a flaw in the film. It was a surprise you weren't expecting. They could never have done anything with him they didn't already do with Palpy, anyway. It's much more interesting to have a young, unstable Dictator overthrow him via a cheap shot and have a Hitler-style figure run the empire he's inherited into the ground with his fanatical ways, anyway.
So yeah, I'm really looking forward to Episode 9 and feel the sequel trilogy has been very well-written.
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I'm officially dumping the Star Wars fandom. Seriously, the screaming fanboys have become rather obnoxious and in some cases, quite nasty. It's literally a repeat of the 2009 Star Trek reboot. "Oh, how can you like that and call yourself a fan?" "The Last Jedi sucks! You're not a real fan if you liked it!" (Because apparently I need the approval of basement-dwelling hipsters in order to meet the arbitrary definition of a "real fan")
"Only a retard would enjoy this movie!" "This isn't real Star Wars!" "The Prequels were better than this crap!" (Have these people actually watched the prequels recently?)
I've been accused of being an SJW for defending this movie and all sorts of other nasty things. You literally can't look up any video pertaining to The Last Jedi without seeing a comment section full of these screaming crybabies. I've had it with this fandom. The Star Wars fandom can go join the Star Trek fandom and the Ace Combat fandom as fanbases I will no longer associate with.
Fanboys, I'm sorry you feel like Disney defiled your precious religion. Put your big girl panties on and get over it.
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I agree completely, I don't know how anybody who's seen the prequels recently can honestly say that they're better. Heck, Jar-Jar Binks wasn't even the biggest problem with those films! I can understand not linking the Last Jedi as it certainly had its flaws (though I LOVED it for a number of reasons), but calling it "the worst star wars ever" and "not real star wars" is overdramatic, and akin to throwing a giant hissy-fit. Though I've loved and watched Star Wars for a very long time, I've never been involved with the fandom, and now I can say I'm glad for that.
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I'm officially dumping the Star Wars fandom. Seriously, the screaming fanboys have become rather obnoxious and in some cases, quite nasty. It's literally a repeat of the 2009 Star Trek reboot. "Oh, how can you like that and call yourself a fan?" "The Last Jedi sucks! You're not a real fan if you liked it!" (Because apparently I need the approval of basement-dwelling hipsters in order to meet the arbitrary definition of a "real fan")
"Only a retard would enjoy this movie!" "This isn't real Star Wars!" "The Prequels were better than this crap!" (Have these people actually watched the prequels recently?)
I've been accused of being an SJW for defending this movie and all sorts of other nasty things. You literally can't look up any video pertaining to The Last Jedi without seeing a comment section full of these screaming crybabies. I've had it with this fandom. The Star Wars fandom can go join the Star Trek fandom and the Ace Combat fandom as fanbases I will no longer associate with.
Fanboys, I'm sorry you feel like Disney defiled your precious religion. Put your big girl panties on and get over it.
I agree. Now I can admit the film had flaws all films do. But I still liked it. And Solo was pretty good to go off topic for a moment
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This right here is a prime example of just how ugly and nasty the fandom has become. Seriously, screw this fandom!
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/kelly-marie-tran-shuts-social-media-attacks-star-wars-trolls-160631895.html
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This right here is a prime example of just how ugly and nasty the fandom has become. Seriously, screw this fandom!
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/kelly-marie-tran-shuts-social-media-attacks-star-wars-trolls-160631895.html
Hear hear!
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I LOVE the fact they axed Snoke, because he's just a Palpatine copy. It's called a Bait and Switch. They built Snoke up and then whipped the carpet out from under you. That's not a flaw in the film. It was a surprise you weren't expecting. They could never have done anything with him they didn't already do with Palpy, anyway. It's much more interesting to have a young, unstable Dictator overthrow him via a cheap shot and have a Hitler-style figure run the empire he's inherited into the ground with his fanatical ways, anyway.
So yeah, I'm really looking forward to Episode 9 and feel the sequel trilogy has been very well-written.
However, bait and switch Snoke might be, that only works in a video game sense I'm afraid; in a movie or story based sense, a bait and switch is only good if you actually have an established character from which you're intending to do a bait and switch with. Snoke has no backstory, no personality, no information on how the heck he even is, or even why we should even care he even existed at all. Because of his poorly fleshed out nature, it makes the entire point of a bait and switch feel like a weak cop-out to just not develop Snoke any further and make a random plot twist with Ben killing him without much issue. There's a difference between making him a bait and switch boss for Ben, but all it does is create an apathetic atmosphere in regards to people wanting to know more about who Snoke honestly was, knowing that not only will they never get the answer, but due to his anti-climatic death, it'll only be information that'll ultimately be tainted by his pathetic performance in The Last Jedi.
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This isn't Snoke's story, and I personally don't care that they killed him. TLJ had flaws, but that wasn't one of them imho. And I wouldn't be surprised if they addressed his backstory in one of the anthology films- I doubt this is the last we've seen of him.
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This isn't Snoke's story, and I personally don't care that they killed him. TLJ had flaws, but that wasn't one of them imho. And I wouldn't be surprised if they addressed his backstory in one of the anthology films- I doubt this is the last we've seen of him.
Yeah probably.
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I LOVE the fact they axed Snoke, because he's just a Palpatine copy. It's called a Bait and Switch. They built Snoke up and then whipped the carpet out from under you. That's not a flaw in the film. It was a surprise you weren't expecting. They could never have done anything with him they didn't already do with Palpy, anyway. It's much more interesting to have a young, unstable Dictator overthrow him via a cheap shot and have a Hitler-style figure run the empire he's inherited into the ground with his fanatical ways, anyway.
So yeah, I'm really looking forward to Episode 9 and feel the sequel trilogy has been very well-written.
However, bait and switch Snoke might be, that only works in a video game sense I'm afraid; in a movie or story based sense, a bait and switch is only good if you actually have an established character from which you're intending to do a bait and switch with. Snoke has no backstory, no personality, no information on how the heck he even is, or even why we should even care he even existed at all. Because of his poorly fleshed out nature, it makes the entire point of a bait and switch feel like a weak cop-out to just not develop Snoke any further and make a random plot twist with Ben killing him without much issue. There's a difference between making him a bait and switch boss for Ben, but all it does is create an apathetic atmosphere in regards to people wanting to know more about who Snoke honestly was, knowing that not only will they never get the answer, but due to his anti-climatic death, it'll only be information that'll ultimately be tainted by his pathetic performance in The Last Jedi.
I don't agree with you in even the slightest, and frankly, I think there's a huge double standard at work with your thinking. Everything you've said about Snoke in this topic also applies Emperor Palpatine.
Snoke is no less developed or defined than The Emperor was in the original films. They could have easily done the exact same thing with him and Vader back then and you'd call it brilliant because of the nostalgia factor.
Seriously, if you watch the original trilogy with a critic eye at all, you'd know that ol' Palpy went out like a schmuck, too. You don't get to criticize how Snoke died while proclaiming The Emperor to be a great villain. He wasn't. He really wasn't.