Limits to Concept Expression in Leafeater and Sharptooth Languages

[Troud]

What concepts do you believe would be difficult or impossible for a dinosaur to communicate? Are there ideas that one language can express that the other would struggle with? I am particularly interested in the limits posed for counting and performing math.

[rhombus]

This is a very good question.  Unfortunately, the canon sources really do not give us much to work with in assessing the potential limits of cognition in LBT dinosaurs, and the actual grammar of their languages.  Though I suspect some concepts might be easier for one language to convey than the other, I think that both languages could express most concepts with the right word and grammatical constructions.

My personal head-canon, which I have included in my Seven Hunters trilogy, is that the leaf-eater language is simpler in terms of grammar, without an emphasis on grammatical case, whereas the sharptooth language makes extensive use of such cases.  So, for example, a slightly different word form would be used for an outsider versus a pack member.  I also imagine the sharptooth language to have several word forms for polite, formal, informal, and threat - which would help to clarify one's intent in speech which is important with species that are capable of extreme violence.  As for numbers, I have hand-waved this, for the most part.  Though I do depict in Mender's Tale that fastrunners have a tendency to count in intervals of twenty (63 would literally be 'three twenty and three') as a sign that a prototypical numerical system is developing at least in the spoken form.

[Troud]

Well, that is interesting. As my stories will be set in the Seven Hunters continuity, I'm especially keen to hear your thoughts, Rhombus.

Would it make sense to you that a conversation between Logos and a fastbiter with a less than stellar grasp of Leafeater would wind up sounding something like the following?


The red and blue-feathered fastbiter stirred the broth that was simmering away in the pot and sighed, "Troud is used to being beast of burden to other dinosaurs' needs. Is very sad life, will probably have very sad death, but at least there is symmetry."

Logos ground her beak in frustration. Though the question of where this dinosaur gained these tools and the skills to use them burned in her mind, there was a more pressing matter at stake. Each moment spent listening to this stranger talk in circles was a moment lost forever. "Look, we're running out of time here. Where did they go?"

Troud pulled back his head as if he'd been slapped, "Run out of time? Impossible! There is endless time." He took his spoon out of the pot and pointed it first at Logos, and then to himself. "Rainbowface will end, Troud will end. This," he dipped his spoon back into the broth and continued stirring it, "is good eats! It's ready, yes it is. Would Rainbowface like some? Troud can take out red food if Rainbowface does not want to eat dinosaur or ground fuzzy."

[rhombus]

First of all, it is great to see another Babylon Five fan.    The vocal pattern of Zathras would actually be a pretty good approximation of how I would imagine a fastbiter trying to speak leaf-eater would sound.  I also had this exchange in the Seven Hunters which portrayed how Detras (Ruby's father) interpreted his overhearing of a sharptooth conversation:

Keeping in mind his knowledge of the sharptooth language, he decided to listen in.  Perhaps he could gleam some information about their intentions from their discussions?

"Ponder, which direction is the pack to follow?"

Detras always had difficulty with the sharptooth language.  Oh, he could speak it well enough, but he only had competency in it as a second language.  As such, everything uttered in that tongue seemed to have an odd pattern to it.  He realized that what would sound weird and overly-formal was often meant to be taken as informal in that language.  This was because the sharptooth language was very precise in how intentions and personal names were communicated.  This is what one would expect as any miscommunication between sharpteeth could lead to battles and death.  Nonetheless, he was quite convinced that he wasn't translating their conversation completely accurately.

"Seeker, the family of mine should reside in the yonder bluffs.  In the yonder bluffs should they reside."

He had to stifle a chuckle, it was nice to see that even some sharpteeth had Ruby's sing-song manner of speaking.  They had tried to correct Ruby's speech when she was a small youngling, but they only had minor success.  They had simply learned to accept it as one of the unique things that made Ruby, well...  Ruby.  It was odd though...  He had never heard any other dinosaur speak in such a way.

"I hope that we find them soon.  Yes, yes, yes!"

[OwlsCantRead]

Discounting Seven Hunters, I did notice that the dialogue does seem more curt and more direct and the few translations we got in LBT5 and Escape from the Mysterious Beyond. The "we could use some dessert" line does make it seem like crude sarcasm won't come off well in sharptooth speak.