Speciesism

[Dosu2Dinner]

OK, because I'm new, again, I don't know if this has been approached before.
Either way! Here goes...

Speciesism is the racism of the LBT world. And, it has been a subconsious theme running through most of the movies, if not all of them, most prominentley on the first.

Racism in the LBT world is now almost synonymous with the character of Topsy, which is pretty unfair. Certainly, he's a racist character, but he has become more tolerant with time. And considering Topsy's given a whole heck of hate, all the other speciesist/racist characters in the series are largely overlooked. I don't think that's fair.

Take Old One's herd for example: On the fourth film, they point-blank ignore every other species of dinosaur that has come to greet them except for their own, and make it very clear that only longnecks should be allowed to accompany them when they leave. It may not sound too bad, but if you think about it, if the Great Valley were to change as dramatically as the Land of Mists had, what would Old One have done with all the species of dinosaurs living their that weren't longnecks? I wouldn't put it past her to simply leave them to die. And being a segregated herd is not merely a by-product of being far-walkers, considering the mixed herd that arrived at the Great Valley at the beginning of the seventh film.

This goes completley without mentioning Ali's reaction. Unlike Cera's previous attitude to other species, it wasn't an aloof, snooty sort of thing, but it was actually genuine fear. Fear of what exactly? Fear of other species because of what she's been told about them? Fear of what her elders might do to her if they had learned she had been interacting with other species? Either one is possible, and if so, it is an almost Nazi-like stance.

Sure, Topsy's beliefs rubbed off on Cera, there's no doubt about that. But as far as we can infer, Topsy didn't force these beliefs on her, otherwise Cera would have been an extremely meek and mild character, very different from the head-strong threehorn we all know and some of us love. I'm sure that Cera adopted these beliefs because her father did, not because he brainwashed her.

So, anyway, give me your thoughts, not just on what I've said about Old One's herd, but about speciesism in general.

[Ducky123]

Another good exampel for Topsy's speciesism is in sequel five,where they are searching for a place to stay until the Great Valley is green again. The dinos from the Great Valley saw a skeleton of a dino from Duckies species and Topsy said( I dunno if it's all correct what I say now because I'm from Germany and I never saw LBT in English,unfortunality :S ) you all knew how stupid these creatures are. Duckies mother was very angry with him and the whole group starts to have an argument... and so on ...you all know what happens next

[Dosu2Dinner]

True that. But I think in serious circumstances, such as when Cera went missing later on in that film, he's willing to bury the hatchet he has with other species.

[vonboy]

You also have to remember that the LBT universe is actually a very cutthroat and wild world. A lot of species probably kept to themselves just so they could look after themselves. I mean, your big concern back then was raising young, and making sure that enough of them survived to carry on your lineage. Worry about some other species out in the Mysterious Beyond could very well put you in danger if your not careful.

What I'm trying to say is if your living out there, struggling to find food, and trying to not be some predators lunch, looking out for or caring anyone but yourself or your immediate family probably didn't happen very much.

[DarkHououmon]

Old One and her herd never came across as nazi-like to me. Throughout all their travels, they kept just to each other, so the reason they ignored the other species is likely they never had any experience. They never needed to before. And none of the other species looked pissed off at being 'ignored'.

Also, Old One never expressed any hostility towards other species, same thing with her herd. There was no pro-longneck, anti-(insert species name here) comments made from the herd. Old One may be so used to a longneck only herd that she invited only longnecks to join. It may also be that she doesn't know how to look after other species or that she wanted to limit the number who could join because she already had a ton of mouths to feed.

If Old One and her herd were as speciesist as you say, then I would have expected either Ali or Rhett to make some kind of speciesist remark, even if it's not intended to be hostile. Children growing up in a "nazi-like herd" would pick up speciesist terms and claims and likely repeat them, even if they don't know what they mean. Since we do not see this, then likely Old One and her herd aren't nazi-like or really that speciesist, just used to interacting with only longnecks and as a result have no idea how to interact with other species. Hence why they seem to "ignore" the other species and only invite longnecks to join.

On the topic of Ali, from what I read on the official site years ago, Ali's reaction was indeed fear-based, but it was based on something else. From what I recall, yes her herd had told her stories, but about other species other than the ones she met. The site clearly stated that her reaction was based on misidentification. She thought Cera, Petrie, Spike, and Ducky were dangerous species perhaps her mom warned her about, completely different ones. Perhaps sharpteeth or bellydraggers, or other species we haven't seen yet or don't see much of that are really hostile. If they haven't interacted with other species that much, then it shouldn't come as any surprise that Ali would mistake Littlefoot's friends as something totally different.

[jansenov]

Outside of the Great Valley, the attitudes of Topsy, the Old One and Ali make perfect sense.  When resources are constrained, when there's not enough food or water around, social animals (the most famous example would be humans) will organise in groups for support and protection. To a certain size a group will offer increased chances of survival to its members, but if it continues to grow any further the pressure on the local environment will become too large, and the members' chances of survival will start falling again. So, a succesful group must define the groups boundary, to decide who can be part of the group and who cannot. One of the most obvious boundaries to draw is that between species, but a boundary can be drawn really over anything. It doesn't matter over what. What matters is to maintain group cohesion.

However, in the Great Valley, in a land of abundance, groups no longer need to keep tight, so more relaxed attitudes can be adopted.  That Topsy keeps his rigid attitude could be attributed to three things: that paleontology theorises (on solid ground, I would say) that ceratopsians were particularly territorial animals, so it is expected that they are shown as such in LBT (this seems to be the idea behind the creation of the Topsy character), that Topsy lead a very hard life of his own, and that he is old, and old people find it harder to change their attitudes (these seem to fit his behaviour when contrasted with the behaviour of other threehorns in the latter movies).  

Also, I object to connecting any of these behaviours to modern concepts such as speciesm or racism or Nazism. What we see in LBT is a far more primitive, you could say "natural" concept of division, the one we encounter in nature and in pre-agricultural human societies. Which doesn't necessarily make it any less violent than Nazism (there are a few peaceful "primitive" societies,  but most modern "primitive" societies, like the Yanomami in South America or the natives of New Guinea, are so violent even Nazis would feel humbled; not to mention the sheer brutality that can be seen among animals). I just think that although LBT was made for a modern audience, we shouldn't expect too many modern concepts in it.

And that's one of the beauties of LBT. That it offers less references to modern society, and to any particular society like American society for example, than the vast majority of other shows. When it comes to humans, it mostly references core humans values, which can be found in any society and any age.

This gives it an universal and timeless appeal.

[Malte279]

Comparing any of the characters to nazis is probably over the top. There is still a difference between animals sticking to their kind in herds (same as many species do today) and trying to murder another kind to the point of extinction just because.
However, one should notice that sticking to the own kind is not a rule set in stone anywhere outside the Great Valley in the sequels. We got such segregated herds as that of the Old One, of Bron, and of the Stegosauruses in LBT 8, but we also got the entirely mixed farwalkers in LBT 7. Apart from that there are the "Mysterious loners" like Rooter (whose unbiased attitude towards Littlefoot is an exception for the adults in the original movie), Doc (I don't think his attitude towards Chomper can be put on the same level as the species sentiment not involving a possible predator), and the unnamed longneck mother in the 9th movie.
Generally speaking I think that the world of LBT is in a process of overcoming the extreme degree of specism that we saw in the original movie (and most pronounced in the never filmed Oasis scene), while there may be individuals and herds still sticking to that kind of speciism. How far such speciism could go is an interesting question and I had made it a topic in a story I wrote ("Old Threehorns") but never finished.

[Dosu2Dinner]

I admit that the Nazi analogy was a hyperbole. Old One's herd, I know, are not that bad. But I just wanted to express the point that Topsy isn't the only racist character, and discrimination towards other species is far more widespread than that. Just how severe it gets, still, I suppose remains to be seen.
Malte, I'm glad you mentioned the oasis scene. I remember reading about it, and if my memory serves me correctly, that included a group of bigmouths who would only let Ducky drink with them because she was the same species. Don Bluth's intention was, after all, to draw a parallel between the days of US segregation.

Even though Old One doesn't seem particularly racist herself, I can't help but think more extreme views may be held by individual members of her herd. After all, one was set to kill Chomper even though he was both young and spoke. Though natrually, he was provoked by Chomper's apparent attack on Rhett.

And Malte, I'm now intrigued...tell me more about this story?