The Gang of Five
Beyond the Mysterious Beyond => Hobbies and Recreation => Computer and Electronics => Topic started by: Petrie. on August 21, 2007, 07:32:04 AM
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http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Detai...px?NewsId=21180 (http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=21180)
You wouldn't think of it as old tech, but it technically is when you consider how fast things change these days and to fall even a year behind sometimes means replacing obsolete equipment (et tu cell phone -_- ). Even though the last line states that cds are losing popularity, I still buy them...compression can hurt and you just can't do better, especially with orchestral scores of which I'm very fond of. :)
Oh, and yeah, I have an early pressing of the Carpenters double-disc Yesterday Once More which is now 22 years old and still playing (indestructable if you take care of them). ;)
So a belated birthday to a very popular guy! :D
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Hehe. I consider cd's to be obsolete. I even replaced my cd drive in my laptop with an extra battery. I just don't use them anymore! I haven't really used a cd in about 2 years (except to copy the content to the computer). This includes dvd's cuz I just watch them on the computer after buying them. I have an unopened copy of LBT 11. I just have no reason to open it. I just bought it for the license.
I have moved on to only using hard drives and flash disks to back up my data. CD's really are old technology to me. I will probably use one again in my lifetime, but I dont' think I'll ever become a regular CD user. Think about it. If you had the option to have 800 CD's or one external hard drive, which one would you choose? That's my position right now. 702mb doesn't go far. :(
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CD burners have given no end of trouble in backing up my data. They hardly ever burned it correctly; sometimes, the data simply wasn't there even though it "completed it", very often, the "data verification" failed, and I got multiple CRC errors, and several other things that annoy you greatly. It would normally only do it right if you burned small amounts, which is no good for backup. Which is why I use an external hard drive for backup. MUCH more reliable and easier to operate.
As for audio, I don't know what's became the "standard" now for audio, so I couldn't say. However, I just recently made the decision to avoid purchasing any more VHS tapes unless they were blank ones for recording (I don't have a good DVD player/burner yet). And now, they've already started this "blu-ray" stuff. What's going on here!?
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I don't know about you all -- but i'm absolutely tired of all these new formats. Can't we just stick to one thing ... and stop upgrading every time some idiotic company thinks that the world needs something new. I'm not going to Blu-Ray. So what if the picture is clearer, I don't care cause my tv is old, anyways. There is -nothing- wrong with DVDs, and its a format that should be used for a long time to come. But of course, by the time I upgrade my whole collection to dvd, someone will come out with something new -- and DVDs will be forgetten, just like VHS.
... I hate technology. Upgrading things is a waste of money. Yes, I was excited to upgrade to the next gen gaming, but ... it was a huge gash in my wallet, same with my new computer ... and my new Nintendo DS ... and my new everything. ~___~;
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To be honest, I still use CDs. Not that often, but I still use them. I use them mostly to store songs so I can listen to them anywhere I want to, not just the computer room. I hardly consider CDs to be "obselete". I keep seeing a ton of them in stores.
Now, if I could choose between 800 CDs and one external harddrive, I'd go for the 800 CDs. While an external harddrive would be nice, it is still just one machine. If I were to store all my stuff on that one harddrive, then, what would happen if I were to lose the drive? I would not only lose files I don't want, but many, if not all, the files I do want. But if I have my stuff stored on CDs, if I lose a few CDs, then I'd be only missing a couple files I still want.
Another reason I'd choose CDs over harddrive is mobility. CDs are just so much easier to carry around than an external harddrive, in my opinion.
But that's just my view. My family and I have been using CDs for years and I doubt we'll stop doing it for quite some time.
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I have yet to have seen an external hard drive that would be harder to carry around than 800 CDs.
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In my last post, I stated that CDs are easier to carry than external harddrives. I never said that 800 CDs were easier to carry. If I were to go to a friend's house or relative's house, and I wanted to listen to music there, I'd rather just bring a couple CDs than a single external harddrive that contains more valuable data than just music. Riskier bringing the external harddrive, in my opinion.
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What about flash drives? They're smaller and more efficient than CD's and you can go get a 2gb(2048mb) one insetad of using a 702mb CD. My dvd player has a usb port so I can plug in my external hard drive and flash drives to watch movies.
The flash drives cost more, but:
1. they dont scratch
2. data lasts 200 years instead of 10
3. smaller and easier to use
4. faster data transfer rate
I don't see why more people don't own them. :rolleyes:
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They're too expensive for my taste.
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Behold! My flash drive.
(http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa146/tlordame/22gg.gif)
It was $35 but It'll last me forever. Total size = 2048mb! Just plug it in and go!
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That thing would never hold all of my data.
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Um, Austin, I still have my 20 year old Carpenters cd that hasn't rotted out, so they last longer than 10 years if you take care of them. That applies to any technology...your harddrive isn't likely to take to too many bangs and drops. My external goes nowhere.
When I think of cds I think of audio cds only, not data ones. I haven't backed up data on discs in a while...last time I did so was a couple of years ago. Haven't checked to see if those still worked...they should because like the external, they don't go anywhere and are safe and dry.
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I am talking about recent CD's. They have been importing many chineese products. CD life is now close to 10 years. On the lower end of it too. :cry2
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That thing would never hold all of my data.
well no, its just a device to take some data with you on the road. I have several 500gb external hard drives and I have about 15 of these little flash drives. I have about 300 blank CD's that I've never opened.
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I have no interest in getting a flash drive. If they were as affordable as CDs, then I might consider getting them. But since I don't have much money, I have to be careful of what I spend it on. Buying a couple CDs that would only cost..maybe $5 is better for me than to spend $30-$40 just for one flash drive.
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My external hard drive is smaller than a VHS tape, so it goes with me wherever my laptop goes. I have no reason to "just take some data with me", as everything that is on my laptop is on my external, and vise versa.
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I wonder if the more recent flash drives are also going cheap....my Kingston one will disconnect (even in the middle of transfering files) if it gets too hot. It might be something to do with Dell usb ports, but I've never had it happen with Lexar drives.
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have no reason to "just take some data with me", as everything that is on my laptop is on my external, and vise versa.
That's basically me too.
For transporting data, I will use either my laptop or my mp3 player (which doubles as a 1 GB flash drive).
As for using CDs for backup, I rarely do this actually. Like LBTlover I find CDs too small and clumsy for backing up a 25 GB music collection plus who-knows-how-much data worth of irreplaceable work. My solution? Nope, not flash drives, not external drives:
1) DVD-R. 4.7 GB instead of 700 MB. Not much more expensive than blank CDs (A pack of 20 comes for less than $1 a disc). I can squeeze my entire backup needs onto 7 or 8 DVDs instead of...well far more CDs. :P:
2) Internal hard drives. Having 3 computers lying around does present amazing opportunities for backing up data. I took an 80 GB drive out of my old web server and installed it into my new computer. This drive is 100% backup. Any data which I would hate to lose is simply copied to this drive. If one of the drives fails, any data I need will be on this one. If the 80 GB fails...well..I can start dumping data onto my laptop. It has 60 GB free.
Flash drives are great for transporting data...assuming you aren't transporting a lot of data. As it's been mentioned, Flash drives are expensive and they're not getting much cheaper. a DVD-RW (4.7 GB) comes at about 1/10 the cost of a 2GB flash drive, and can be reused just the same. DVD burners come standard in many computers, and have for the last couple of years. Upgrading to a DVD burner is less than $50 if you don't have one, which is barely more than the cost of a flash drive.
In short, recordable DVDs are my friends :p
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1) DVD-R. 4.7 GB instead of 700 MB. Not much more expensive than blank CDs (A pack of 20 comes for less than $1 a disc). I can squeeze my entire backup needs onto 7 or 8 DVDs instead of...well far more CDs. :P:
I have some DVD-Rs as well, but I strictly use them for video only. I never use them for music purposes. I only use CD-Rs for music, plus it lets me play them in CD Players. I don't think I can play DVD-Rs in CD Players, though I could be mistaken, as I never tried it.
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I don't think I can play DVD-Rs in CD Players, though I could be mistaken, as I never tried it.
Nope, in most cases you can't. Maybe some high-end DVD players and DVD car stereos will play DVD-R music but I don't know for sure either. I think that would be a great feature though, if they can't. :wow
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Getting enough flash drives to equal what my external hard drive has would be a complete waste of good money. I used to use CDs, but CD/DVD burners have treated me like trash over the years, so I stopped that and just got an external.
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With regards to CDs only lasting 10 years:
There is some truth to that! A commercial CD (which you buy with music, a game, etc will generally last for a very long time as Adam stated. A blank CD-R however is manufactured significantly cheaper and does not have nearly the longevity of a commericial disc.
CD-Rs are known to be unreadable within 5 years in some cases. I have both seen and experienced CD-Rs that simply refused to work after a period of time. A friend of mine recently had to back up his entire video collection again because his CD-Rs refused to work anymore. I had a similar problem with my ancient backup CDs.
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CDs never really gave me any trouble, although DVD-Rs have hated me a few times and refused to burn sometimes, although it has only happened a couple times.
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Recently I got a 4GB memory stick which served me very well when I transfered data from my damaged old laptop to a new one. In general CDs and DvDs are quite handy, but what I consider a major drawback is the fact that the data saved on a CD-ROM is not saved for eternity but may "fade out" after a few years. I lost some precious data that way.
As for the permanent development of new formats / technologies I agree with akida to some extend. It is kind of annoying that the new computer you bought in the morning is obsolete in the evening. We are living in a time of ever accelerating technological progress. There had been very slow technological progress in the millenias preceding roughly the last 200 years. Now even in the tiny space of time since my birth the world has changed very, very much. Historians of later days will remember our time as the coming of a new age (same as the Rennaisance is considered by historians today). Ever improving means of communication, gen technology, and other developments are going to have a huge impact on life in the future (if any). There are great chances but great risks as well...
I'm widely off topic I'm afraid :lol
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I've got a fair collection of corrupted CD-RWs that CD burners have somehow made unusable and unerasable. It was really frustrating to have to do my weekly backup to the point where I started to stash my data on my mother's computer before finally getting an external hard drive.
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People who have had trouble getting CD-Rs and DVD-Rs to work:
How fast do you set your burn speed to? Most burners are "capable" of 16x or faster burning speeds, HOWEVER (!) I highly recommend that you never use these speeds.
If you want a good reliable disc, the 1x burning speed is the best way to go. It will take significantly longer but the disc is much more likely to be completely functional. Also, the data verification is basically a waste of time if you're burning at 1x speed so you can skip that step. I do all my DVD backing up at 1x burning speed and I've never had a problem.
Another bit of advice is to not use your computer while the disc is being recorded. If you can, do something else while it's recording because computer activity can potentially mess up the burning process. For maximum reliability, 1x speed and an idle computer is your best bet. B)
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I've tried that, and it was just the same song, verse two. Once in a blue moon, I could actually get a 500 MB or so burn task to successfully burn onto a CD-RW.
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1X speed is out of the question for me. This is the only access to the internet we have, and when the comp is burning a DVD, no one can use the computer until it is finished because the comp is greatly slowed down.
4X, our normal speed, would take about an hour or so to complete, so a 1X would probably take about 4-5 hours to complete, possibly even 6.
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I have never had any problems with burning CD's. I have dual sony dvd-rw drives in my master computer and I only use sony cd's and dvd's. I have had data become unreadable after 4 years though. That's a cd for ya. <_<
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So we sort of have confirmed in this tech age that data cds may be obsolete. What about music ones? Do you still buy them (and those will last much longer than four years)?
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Technically, the new music CD's you buy from the store are supposed to last longer, but in all honesty, They don't. All major manufacturers have switched to chineese products. <_< The Cd's you buy now won't last too long. :(
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I'd like to see you prove that one. You don't even buy music based on what you've posted. Like I said, take care of them, and pressed stuff lasts a long time.
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What about music ones? Do you still buy them (and those will last much longer than four years)?
Sure! I would still much rather buy a music CD than pay to download a Legal mp3 from some website. Even though the CD is more expensive, I just find it a nice feeling to see it sitting in my collection. I also cannot justify paying for a lossy copy of a song (as soon as a song is in mp3 format, it's less than CD quality). Whether I can hear a huge difference is besides the point; If I want to buy the song, I want to buy the highest-quality I can get my hands on...and you can't literally get your *hands* on an mp3 file, can you? :P: ;)
I wonder if DVD audio will ever replace CD audio? From the looks of things, DVD audio will never really take off. Mp3 sites seem to be the "wave of the future". What does everyone here think of legal mp3 downloading? How will we be buying music in 5 years? 10 years?
I'd like to see you prove that one. You don't even buy music based on what you've posted. Like I said, take care of them, and pressed stuff lasts a long time.
I agree. I would be more than shocked if commercial discs were to fail within 5 or 10 years. In theory, a CD should outlast a music cassette. Cassettes will lose their magnetism over time and will actually degrade. The data in a commercial CD is "carved" into the disc; it's not going anywhere for awhile. Consumer "burned" CDs don't work this way but commercial discs do.
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I would prefer to get a CD than do a paid legitimate download, because I know the music is ON the CD and OFF of my computer. You'd be surprised how quickly the file size of a collection of good MP3s add up. Oh, sure, you could burn the downloaded MP3 onto a blank CD-R[W] CD and format it to play like a regular audio CD, but that's just not the same as getting it factory pressed. Not as reliable, I would think. Same thing goes with downloaded movies. I would much rather have it on a factory pressed DVD than either taking up space on my computer or do a risky and likely-to-fail burn job on a DVD[insert any of the several recordable DVD prefixes they have made] that probably wouldn't last as long, anyway.
VHS tapes have been seeing the trash bin for some time, now, but they don't appear to have been completely phased out yet. They're still selling a few combo players, as well as even selling VHS tapes in some Toys "R" Us stores I've been in. I suppose cassette tapes have a similar story to tell.
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Surprisingly, a lot of my parents old Disney VHS tapes still play very well...and these are from the 80s too...most haven't been played in years, but they still work, so I'd imagine it takes many years of just sitting there to kill commercial VHS tapes too. The stuff recorded off of tv doesn't last too long.
I wonder if DVD audio will ever replace CD audio? From the looks of things, DVD audio will never really take off. Mp3 sites seem to be the "wave of the future". What does everyone here think of legal mp3 downloading? How will we be buying music in 5 years? 10 years?
DVD-A and SACD are dead...case closed on those two. Most people wouldn't have the equipment necessary to use them and there were so many limitations, you'd just piss the rest off who did have the means to play them. I've tried some mp3 sites before (emusic, allofmp3) and I think they're only good for those albums/tracks you really like and have little chance of getting a cd copy of. Case in point...the London Symphony Orchestra released an album called That's Entertainment and you can find the tracks on emusic...I couldn't find a cd copy if I tried, and believe me I've tried to. With no other alternative, AND the proper encoding of said mp3 file (VBR, Lame), I would pay for it.
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The stuff recorded off of tv doesn't last too long.
Oh? And just how long would you say it lasts?
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I called the manufacter of my mom's music CD cuz it was sucking so bad and it was in china. The person on the phone said that life expectancy of a modern music CD is no longer than 4-5 years. :blink:
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The stuff recorded off of tv doesn't last too long.
Oh? And just how long would you say it lasts?
Your own recorded stuff (depending on how often you view it) will maybe sound and look good for a year or two. Then you'll have all sorts of tracking issues. I taped religiously and the best time to view the show is the day after. :D
I called the manufacter of my mom's music CD cuz it was sucking so bad and it was in china. The person on the phone said that life expectancy of a modern music CD is no longer than 4-5 years.
I sure doubt all the stuff I bought from 2002 back is dead now. And I seriously doubt the cds will just die sitting there since I've all the tracks on my computer in flac. No scratches that way. I've had burned cd-r's die after a bit but that's because I've played them over and over (to save wear and tear on originals).
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The stuff recorded off of tv doesn't last too long.
Oh? And just how long would you say it lasts?
Your own recorded stuff (depending on how often you view it) will maybe sound and look good for a year or two. Then you'll have all sorts of tracking issues. I taped religiously and the best time to view the show is the day after. :D
I know I have recorded stuff lying around that's older than that and still works. Was this a long term test you did a few years ago where you got the results a couple of years later?
I called the manufacter of my mom's music CD cuz it was sucking so bad and it was in china. The person on the phone said that life expectancy of a modern music CD is no longer than 4-5 years.
I sure doubt all the stuff I bought from 2002 back is dead now. And I seriously doubt the cds will just die sitting there since I've all the tracks on my computer in flac. No scratches that way. I've had burned cd-r's die after a bit but that's because I've played them over and over (to save wear and tear on originals).
Well, it's certainly a small wonder your music CDs last so long. The way I read this is that you don't even play your CDs that often, but rather, burned copies of them. It's possible landbeforetimelover's mother's music CDs stopped working after awhile because they were played more often that your's.
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I know I have recorded stuff lying around that's older than that and still works. Was this a long term test you did a few years ago where you got the results a couple of years later?
Most of the stuff I've forgotten when I recorded it. I just know browsing through a lot of old tapes (to throw some out) that the stuff that has been there for years, even not being played in a very long time is unusable or I already had gone and bought a dvd copy and I didn't need the tape anymore.
Well, it's certainly a small wonder your music CDs last so long. The way I read this is that you don't even play your CDs that often, but rather, burned copies of them. It's possible landbeforetimelover's mother's music CDs stopped working after awhile because they were played more often that your's.
You're right...I don't play them that often because some cost a serious chunk of change to get ahold of and one good scratch can render them a coaster. Some I just can't afford to lose, and its no surprise they're my favorites, considering some lengths I went through to get them. (Malte would remember that one time. ;) ) CD's don't wear out because one gets played more often than others because nothing ever actually touches the back of the CD (unlike a cassette). CD's wear out because of user abuse (i.e. touch the back, cd gets scratches, left in the sun, etc).
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Here's a question I've heard several different answers to: What's the proper way to handle or hold a CD/DVD?
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As for their durability cassettes are not as bad as their reputation. In fact I think I read somewhere that if treated correctly (kept in their cases when not used, protected from magnetism, heat, cold, and moisture) they can outlast CDs. I have casettes from the 1980s (a land before time audio play among them) and they are working just fine.
Some I just can't afford to lose, and its no surprise they're my favorites, considering some lengths I went through to get them. (Malte would remember that one time. ;) )
And the little loot I got from that one is still working just fine :yes.
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Here's a question I've heard several different answers to: What's the proper way to handle or hold a CD/DVD?
By the edges or by poking a finger through the hole in the middle. Don't hold it like you would throw a frisbee. Fingerprints are a bear to get off and the lasers that have to read the data don't like them.
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Yes, Malte, that worked out great for both of us. :D