The Gang of Five
The Land Before Time => General Land Before Time => Character Discussion => Topic started by: FlipperBoidSkua on January 19, 2011, 05:45:38 PM
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I always wondered if Mr. Clubtail and Kosh are the same characters. I mean, Kosh sounds a lot harsher (both his words and his voice) in the TV Series than Mr. Clubtail in the movies like 3 and 5, especially the latter with this quote:
Morning kids. Nice day for a tree star.
Even his arguing didn't sound as harsh:
And I've seen your kind waste too. Splashing around needlessly, for shame.
Seems like a rather large change to go from that to doing things like laughing/belching berry juice all over Cera and Chomper and just being gross and rude in general.
*shrugs* I just wanna know people's thoughts. And sorry if there's a topic on this already...
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It could be a possiblility that these two characters are different? They always refered to Mr Clubtail as 'Mr.Clubtail' however, as far as I know the television series isn't really affiliated that directly with the producers of the sequels so it could also be an error. Don't really know to be honest, just sprouting something.;)
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I believe that they are one in the same. You are basing the different theory on his mannerisms. Your argument is that the character being called Mr. Clubtail is mostly mild, and when the character being called Kosh comes into the picture, he is rude. I believe that the gap in that logic is defined in the twelth movie. A character was rude to Guido, smacking him hard with his tail, and Littlefoot called him Mr. Clubtail. So there is at least one instance of a character being called Mr. Clubtail and being mean at the same time. So saying Kosh is rude is not justification for believing that they are different, as the former name is used during a mean scene as well. Spitting juice in someone's face is along the same lines of meanness as wacking someone with your tail, so I can see one character doing both easily. It isn't abnormal for a character's first name to come into play much later. Mr. Three Horns's first name wasn't revealed until movie eleven.
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Another thought, though I may be putting too much into it, on his changed personality is aging :idea. Maybe this character has some form of dementia for all we know.
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I wasn't notified that I got posts here....oh well! :DD
You have a point there, The Friendly Sharptooth. I never truely noticed Littlefoot saying "Mr. Clubtail" in the 12th movie. Now that I watched it again, I nod in thanks for you pointing that out to me!! :yes
:lol Then Mr. Clubtail's becoming a grumpy old man, according the Cancerian Tiger's theory!! Before you know it, he'll be going: "Get off my lawn!" Oh wait, he already does with the Sweet Bubble place!! :p
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Puh, and bobbing his bopper on poor hatchlings heads if they eat his sweet bubbles. :lol
I think they're the same character. In the credits Mr. Clubtail has alway's been referred to by "Mr. Clubtail (Kosh)" the producers and directors should know their own characters. :p So yep. I think they're the same character.
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Also, In LBT 12 petrie says and I quote,
Don't eat me Mt. Clubtail!
And I think he was referring to Kosh. So yeah, it just adds to the discussion of them being the same person.
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Hmm, considering that in part of boredom and part of interest I did look up in question of Mr.Clubtail and Kosh. Although the sound different from the sequels and the TV series, which in my defence that is what I was thinking on....I checked up on Wikipedia, which also I shouldn't really do since I am an academic ;) of the character and this is what I found:
Kosh (a.k.a. Mr. Clubtail), voiced by Rob Paulsen (III - XII, minus V), Jeff Bennett (V, TV Series) and Pete Sepenuk (TV Series), is an almost gluttonous, pink Ankylosaurus who appears in some of the The Land Before Time films and the TV series. He is almost always seen eating. His first name was revealed in the end credits of the TV episode "The Star Day Celebration".
Kosh/Mr.Clubtail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Land_Before_Time_characters#Kosh)
Again one shouldn't heavily rely on Wiki as the absolute truth but this quote is evident in the fact that Kosh/Mr.Clubtail are the same. The problem I think that has confuzzled people in believing that they are different characters is the voice acting and some mannerisims (that are described as aggressive in format in the TV series). Although it should be noted that the difference in voice acting for Mr Thicknose for example (the guy who does Rafiki in the TLK) from the Big Freeze sequel and the difference of voice in the TV series, hasn't changed viewers perceptions of Mr.Thicknose and his character. It is only that in the TV series that Mr Clubtail has been given a name for the suitability of the writers....or something like that. :neutral
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I think that movie 11 is the only time that give Kosh's name in the credits.
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It's worth noting that all the adults of the series have generic names that aren't necessarily exclusive to one person in particular. For instance, Mama Swimmer will only have had that name as long as she was a parent, and Ducky would logically take that name upon becoming a parent herself*; plus, there could be other Swimmer families in the valley who have that title. "Mr. Clubtail" could just be a name that refers to any male Clubtail of sufficient age, although in this case it appears to refer to the most dominant of the lot.
Since the reserved personality of Mr. Clubtail disappears after LBT V, it could be that he died during the famine and exodus into the desert, and the Mr. Clubtail of the later films is a son, nephew or grandson of his; Kosh, whose personality is little like his.
Alternatively, Mr. Clubtail of the earlier films could still be alive alongside the Mr. Clubtail of the later films, except the others call him Kosh to differentiate between the two.
*Sooner or later the entire Gang Of Five will have "titles" like this:
Littlefoot: Papa Longneck
Cera: Mama Topps
Ducky: Mama Swimmer
Petrie: Papa Flyer
Spike: Papa Spiketail
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These are pretty logical points on both sides, especially Almaron's theory.
They could be different characters whom are related, or they're the same and just growing old and senile! :lol Or I have another theory if they're indeed the same dinosaur concerning his change in general demeaner:
Kosh loves the Sweet Bubble patch, and who knows, maybe those grapes are fermented and the reason he like it so much is because it gets him drunk! He certainly acted drunk in the TV episode. Maybe sometime after movie 5, he found the grapes and had his first experience in alcoholism.
His drunkness will make him rude and when he's not being drunk and is interacting with the grown-ups and kids and whatnot, his newfound mean streak came from his hang-over!!
I don't know whether to take this theory of mine seriously or not... :p :D
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Some excellent reasons are given above, though I assumed they were the same person. As for differences in personality or acting I assumed that was either up to different writers, time of the year, or other reasons perhaps.
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I love the name "Kosh". A very nice name for Mr. Clubtail, a chracter I do like. :yes
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The way he acts and is, maybe it took a while before he told the other adults his personal name.
I like the name Kosh equally well as I do Mr. Clubtail.
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A bit late to reply on this thing, but...
I think they may be the same character. I mean, even though Kosh in the TV series was being surly and belching juice over everyone, eventually he did relent and let them have some of the grapes. Though, he's definatley not the only clubtail in the series. At least two are seen at most times, and there was another one who fell victim to Deinonychus after following Pterano. Not to mention the female snow-hating clubtail on the eighth film.
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I always believed that they were one and the same. Mr. Clubtail seems like he was meant to be random extra in one movie who later became convenient to reuse in later movies and eventually became a character in his own right. I did like his presence in other movies, it gives the valley some local color. I’ve mentally kind of consolidated his many slight varying depictions to him being gruff but affable. He is generally a descent sort, as seen in his cordial exchanges with the gang like in movie 5 and him accompanying the rescue of the kids in movie 3 (I kind of headcanon he went on the behalf of Nod’s family, who presumably took another evacuation route for the fire and so weren’t present to help rescue their son).
But he can be impatient and rough in manner, as seen in movie 12 when he expresses annoyance at the Great Day of the Flier shenanigans and him bopping Guido on the head. He isn’t above falling for the usual valley hysteria as seen with the Tinysauruses. In “The Amazing Threehorn Girl” TV episode, he was among the crowd who excoriated Cera for lying and even suggested she not be allowed to stay in the valley. Good people can do very questionable things, so I don’t see his behavior with the sweet bubbles as that far off course.
I’m kind of under the impression his sweet bubble eating sessions are something he prefers to keep quiet if not a secret so he could enjoy them on his own. He isn’t in the mood to share in these times. Some people can be quite territorial over their favorite food (Which I’ve been admittedly at times), and I can see how eating lots of that favored food can loosen your inhibitions toward others whether those sweet bubbles are fermented or not. ;)
So he doesn’t show much hesitation toward being rude to the gang and even spraying them with juice. I think this rudeness is both sincere and played up to make them go away so he can eat in peace. Though some of his old friendliness is still present, as when Ducky sincerely tells him about getting sweet bubbles for Ruby’s Star Day, he immediately offers to share, eager to share happiness with someone who also likes Star Days and sweet bubbles. I wonder if he and Ruby ever do some activities and bonding over those things. It might be cute.
I can understand why his appearance in the Star Day episode might be jarring. His voice was different from the other ones he had so far. His VA for that episode is the same as the one for Redclaw and Screech (And Saro). This amuses me. Plot twist: Redclaw was Mr. Clubtail all along!
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I also believe the two clubtails are the same character. The "Mr. Clubtail" of movie XII, referred to by this name twice, is just as rude as the "Kosh" of the TV series. In fact, he's worse than in the TV series. I can get over him not wanting to share his food...but hitting Guido with his tail? Um, how did he go from being the easygoing guy who said, "Morning, kids, nice day for a tree star," to bonking kids in the face for no apparent reason? Why did he need to become that type of character when we already had Mr. Threehorn around to be a grouchy brute?
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I don't think their the same characters. Mr Clubtail was voiced by Rob Paulsen in both The Mysterious Island and The Great Day of the Flyers while Kosh was voiced by Pete Sepenuk. If they are the same character I don't think there would be any reason for them to switch voice actors, especially since Paulsen did work on the show.
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I don't think their the same characters. Mr Clubtail was voiced by Rob Paulsen in both The Mysterious Island and The Great Day of the Flyers while Kosh was voiced by Pete Sepenuk. If they are the same character I don't think there would be any reason for them to switch voice actors, especially since Paulsen did work on the show.
That's a good point, LittleDas. I think they must be different characters, but that's very confusing, and makes me wonder about other times in the LBT series when they don't specify if it's Mr. Clubtail or Kosh. What about LBT XII when a Clubtail whacks Guido with his tail? Who was that, Kosh or Mr. Clubtail?
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I don't think their the same characters. Mr Clubtail was voiced by Rob Paulsen in both The Mysterious Island and The Great Day of the Flyers while Kosh was voiced by Pete Sepenuk. If they are the same character I don't think there would be any reason for them to switch voice actors, especially since Paulsen did work on the show.
That's a good point, LittleDas. I think they must be different characters, but that's very confusing, and makes me wonder about other times in the LBT series when they don't specify if it's Mr. Clubtail or Kosh. What about LBT XII when a Clubtail whacks Guido with his tail? Who was that, Kosh or Mr. Clubtail?
I think Littlefoot specifically called that character "Mr. Clubtail."
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I like to split the clubtails in the series up even further than just Kosh and Mr. Clubtail; the way I see it, Mr. Clubtail is the specific clubtail in V, XI and XII, Kosh is a one-off character in the one episode and the Rob Paulsen and Jeff Bennett clubtails from the third movie and 'The Amazing Threehorn Girl' respectively are their own distinct "characters" as well.
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Unlike the rest of y'all, Mr. Clubtail and Kosh will always be the same character to me. If Littlefoot can change voice actors eight times, Mr. Clubtail can once, and his personality never changed to the degree that I couldn't believe it was the same sometimes-cranky old dinosaur.
I just prefer one long-running side character over multiple extremely minor, half-baked ones who look exactly alike.
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Unlike the rest of y'all, Mr. Clubtail and Kosh will always be the same character to me. If Littlefoot can change voice actors eight times, Mr. Clubtail can once, and his personality never changed to the degree that I couldn't believe it was the same sometimes-cranky old dinosaur.
I just prefer one long-running side character over multiple extremely minor, half-baked ones who look exactly alike.
Yeah I see them as the same character too although to be fair I haven't put that much thought into it. There are multiple occasions where characters have changed voice actors (especially in the shift between their movie and TV series appearances) so that isn't enough for me to say that's a different character. I suppose the different mannerisms might be due to whatever mood he's in that day. :p
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When Mr. Clubtail says, “Splashing around needlessly, for shame!” You have to take into account he and the other inhabitants of The Great Valley are under great duress; their water source is stopped, and low, and they all save The Gang of Five, are in survival mind set, which makes people edgier and harsher.
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(Ten years later. . .)
The series has an ankylosaur character named "Kosh". That leads me to ask a question. Has the voting window passed the pebbles by yet?