What type of villian do you want to see

Serris · **on:** February 21, 2008, 05:23:13 PM

What kind of villian do you want to see in a Land Before Time movie?

I personally think that some of the villians should pose a greater threat than they previously showed (some of the sequel sharpteeth come to mind

:).

"Super" Sharpteeth means a sharptooth like The Original LBT Sharptooth (near-invulnerability and supernatural strength).

"Rogue Great Valley" inhabitant means someone like Pterano.

Kor · **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2008, 06:40:50 PM

If they want to have sharpteeth, why not drop the joke comedy ones and have one more like the first one.

Petrie. · **Reply #2 on:** February 21, 2008, 11:33:08 PM

Rogue Great Valley inhabitants could make for an interesting gray area that's not present in LBT. As it stands (with the exception of Chomper) the carnivores are the bad guys, the herbivores are good. Can't have a nasty plant eater, or two or three...?

f-22 "raptor" ace · **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2008, 12:18:05 AM

Quote from: Petrie,Feb 21 2008 on 10:33 PM

Rogue Great Valley inhabitants could make for an interesting gray area that's not present in LBT. As it stands (with the exception of Chomper) the carnivores are the bad guys, the herbivores are good. Can't have a nasty plant eater, or two or three...?

The main Villian in my fanfic is a planteater I shoul;d work on it more.

Flathead770 · **Reply #4 on:** February 22, 2008, 12:18:53 AM

I agree with Petire. Thats one of the reasons why i liked Pterano so much as a villain as he was actually unique to any other villain presented thus far in LBT. Theres also character development with Pterano as well (dunno if thats the way to describe it). So ya, i would like to see a villain more like Pterano in a new sequel.

aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato) · **Reply #5 on:** February 22, 2008, 01:05:23 AM

Natural disasters! How can you fight mother nature? The greatest villains are those who are impossible to overcome.

The Great Valley Guardian · **Reply #6 on:** February 22, 2008, 01:41:12 AM

While I have to admit, having a super sharptooth reappear in the series would be nice to see...I'd rather have a valley resident go all Anakin Skywalker and just betray everybody...

Coyote_A · **Reply #7 on:** February 22, 2008, 01:53:28 AM

The Great Valley Guardian, who, for example? I don't think, that scriptors really can make someone of already created characters a betrayer. They rather add a new one for just a one episode.

Here's my opinion: if there really can be a herbivorous vilian, he should come from the Mysterious Beyond, and trying to unlock the ways to the valley... For example, he actually was squeezed by some clever sharptheeth, who promised to let this herbivore-betrayal and his family to leave in peace, while he's going to feast in protectless valley. :huh:

Malte279 · **Reply #8 on:** February 22, 2008, 05:41:16 AM

It would be great to have an LBT villain who doesn't have "evil" written all over his face. While we did have Pterano as a deceiver (though he apparently turned out alright in the end) you could tell that he was to be a crook the moment he appeared on the screen. It would be interesting to have a real sly who fools everyone until he or she drops the mask.
A problem about such villains is that it is very difficult in the world of LBT to find motives for their actions. On the one hand they could be predators, but this would be rather obvious in most cases. Perhaps a scavenger or omnivore, pretending to be perfectly satisfied with green food, might be an option. An outright planteater with an appetite for meet would be somewhat... strange

Not very likely in any case.
One could come up with motives such as the one for Pterano, but this is very tricky. LBT dinosaurs are usually happy so long they have enough to eat and to drink and are in relative safety. So long long this is the case (usually it is in the Great Valley) there is little reason for them to thirst for power or show any readiness to submit themselves to anybody else's orders. I'm afraid the striving for power by itself (so common among mankind) is not a very likely motive for LBT dinosaurs.
Finally we have the evil trait of racism. A really bad racist who is capable of hiding his or her racism while plotting against other species might be interesting.

Amaranthine · **Reply #9 on:** December 10, 2008, 09:59:24 PM

I was looking for a topic like this.

I just want to say I think would LBT really needs is a sophisticated, classy, criminal that's psychotic, yet can have a calm exterior, has a dry, sarcastic sense of humor, yet can get very annoyed if their plot is ruined by the meddling kids. xD

LBTFan13 · **Reply #10 on:** December 10, 2008, 10:18:05 PM

I would definitely like to see a Rogue Great Valley Inhabitant appear somewhere in the future. I don't know why I have such a thing for kidnapping, but the only time one of the gang was kidnapped was in LBT 7 with Ducky. I guess that's what inspired me to write my kidnappings in my Revenge fanfics. Anyway, it would be interesting to see more of the gang being put in peril in that sense. It would be hard because of motives and whatnot, but I think it would put some more flare into it.

Then again, I realize this is supposed to be directed towards children, and they may not understand kidnapping as much as we do, but it's just a thought.

Drake · **Reply #11 on:** December 10, 2008, 11:56:27 PM

The Rogue Great Valley Inhabitant seems to be a popular choice. I think it's an interesting idea, though doing it could be quite difficult.

With the sharpteeth, it's easy, they're just hunting to survive, but a flattooth would probably need a more sinister motive to turn on its fellows and thus that's probably why we haven't seen anything like it in the series. (Aside from Pterano, but I can't really view him as villian.)

Amaranthine · **Reply #12 on:** December 11, 2008, 04:14:02 PM

Quote from: Flathead770,Feb 21 2008 on 08:18 PM

So ya, i would like to see a villain more like Pterano in a new sequel.

Now, remember that song, "Good Inside" in this sequel.

Pterano wasn't a "villain" though he had some villainous parts, i.e, he kidnaps Ducky hoping that no one would stop them from fulfilling the plan. Pterano would be a good dictator, but he does repent from his arrogance. He even does a noble act by saving Ducky from falling in the end.

So no, I don't believe Pterano will be a villain again.

Kor · **Reply #13 on:** December 11, 2008, 04:48:20 PM

The closest thing to rogue inhabitants are Hyp and his friends from the 3rd movie. Early on maybe threehorn could be also but he seems less inclined in that direction.

Maybe something like we saw in The Forbidden Friendship episode could happen where some dinos take threehorn's side, and some Littlefoot's Grandparents where they have divided up the Great Valley between them, & of course only the kids can fix things as usual.

WeirdRaptor · **Reply #14 on:** December 12, 2008, 02:58:04 AM

I put "Other" as my vote. I really don't care where the villain comes from or what he/she/it is. I just want to see an intelligent, competent, and frightening villain for once. That's all.

Who says we have to give the villain a logical motive. To quote Alfred from "The Dark Knight": "Some men, aren't after anything logical. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men, just want to watch the world burn!"

To quote the Joker: "I'm an agent of chaos."

I would LOVE to see a villain like that in LBT. Someone who looks calm and collected, but is actually just completely insane and enjoys watching the pain and suffering he brings down on others through his machinations.

Serris · **Reply #15 on:** December 12, 2008, 03:48:43 AM

Quote from: WeirdRaptor,Dec 12 2008 on 01:58 AM

I put "Other" as my vote. I really don't care where the villain comes from or what he/she/it is. I just want to see an intelligent, competent, and frightening villain for once. That's all.

Who says we have to give the villain a logical motive. To quote Alfred from "The Dark Knight": "Some men, aren't after anything logical. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men, just want to watch the world burn!"

To quote the Joker: "I'm an agent of chaos."

I would LOVE to see a villain like that in LBT. Someone who looks calm and collected, but is actually just completely insane and enjoys watching the pain and suffering he brings down on others through his machinations.

Wait, are you saying that you want a darker and edgier reboot of LBT?

Oorah! I'm not the the only dark LBT fan!

I did this in Twilight Valley. Procella (sickleclaw/Deinochyus OC) and Ms. Maia (!) are a fusion of two motice types. They are following orders but also enjoy inflicting pain on others.

Malte279 · **Reply #16 on:** December 12, 2008, 05:57:34 AM

Quote

Someone who looks calm and collected, but is actually just completely insane and enjoys watching the pain and suffering he brings down on others through his machinations.

That would be a motive (enjoying watching the pain etc.). But the way this motive is presented would be crucial to make it credible. I realize the irony of talking about credibility with reference to a movie of talking and singing cartoon dinosaurs, but I guess some reference as to why a character acts the way he or she does is usually a good thing. There can be even some explanation for the characters enjoying the pain of others without that explanation meaning any kind of redemption of a character whatsoever.

Quote

Pterano wasn't a "villain" though he had some villainous parts, i.e, he kidnaps Ducky hoping that no one would stop them from fulfilling the plan. Pterano would be a good dictator, but he does repent from his arrogance. He even does a noble act by saving Ducky from falling in the end.

While I agree to Pterano being no villain at heart, he is extremely self centered and with the exception of his lines to Petrie at the very end he never ever acknowledges any guilt for his actions.
Rinkus and Sierra come in as ready-made bearers of blame as they don't show any good intentions whatsoever. Given the chance for power or recognition I don't think Pterano would be beyond being tempted.
As for the nobility of saving Ducky, he didn't really take any personal risk in doing this. Personally I think there is still a lot of potential of Pterano for one side or the other. In any case I don't think he has yet "aufgearbeitet" his history (there just is no good English equivalent for this German term which means something like dealing with the own past in a manner as to acknowledging guilt, looking for what caused it, being aware of both, and working to prevent it in the future).

WeirdRaptor · **Reply #17 on:** December 12, 2008, 07:41:15 AM

Serris: Not a reboot, just a sequel that takes the series off in a different direction. Yep, It'd definitely make the film darker, which would be a nice change of pace. Now, not every LBT would have to follow that example, but it is something worth exploring. This IS a setting where you HAVE to fight for your survival almost everday, after all.

Malte: I don't think it would be necessary to explain why someone who is revealed to be clearly completely insane would enjoy doing exacting torment on other. Besides which, I think it would kill some of his menace.
It would actually be a lot simpler to have the main characters just say it.
Littlefoot: "So, it was (insert name here) who caused (insert attrocity here) by (insert manipulation here), but why?!"
Cera: "Isn't it obvious? HE'S NUTS! We're dealing with a looney!"
And if that's not good enough, the creators can just cast Mark Hamill, a voice actor who specializes in deranged psychopaths and manipulative dirtbags, as this villain. Believe me, he'll sell the whole "doing because he's completely insane and derives a sick pleasure from it" idea well enough that no one who pops the DVD in will doubt it, nor would the implication be lost on even the most dense mind.

Edit: If anyone looks up Mark Hamill out of curiousity, you'll likely find a bunch of a Star Wars stuff, because he played Luke Skywalker. However, when his cinematic career didn't pan out well, he turned to stage and voice acting, and that's where he's been ever since.

Malte279 · **Reply #18 on:** December 12, 2008, 09:38:02 AM

I see what you mean and I guess something could be done this way (so I'm not trying to disprove you on anything here), but personally I still think that some background information would help. Especially if that nut is to be the deceitful kind of character called for by most people.
If somebody manages to fool everyone into believing he or she was a perfectly good, honorable, sane, and innocent character I suppose that somebody would have to be of a certain intelligence to be able to put on such a convincing mask. If somebody does possess that intelligence that somebody is at least not likely to have no background whatsoever onto which the insanity is based.
A all thorough nut who is drooling and giggling all the time is not likely to deliberately fool others for long. Still there may be the possibility that this drooling and giggling nut, without even trying to put up any pretense, might be considered just a "harmless fool" for a while.

I have one scene in mind (lacking the full story surrounding that scene though) in which a deceitful villain him or herself actually pushes Littlefoot and the others deliberately on the right track when they are practically convinced that somebody else is the doer of whatever mischief (and that's a very big whatever). That villain (having come across as the friendly and selfless helper all along) could tell Littlefoot and the others to rethink about their conclusions. The villain could show them the flaws in their conclusions and tell them to think about who else might benefit from whatever had been done until the scales would fall of the goggling eyes of Littlefoot and the others. :blink:
Of course at that time the villain is not likely to wish to let Littlefoot and the others get away to tell anyone of the knowledge they aquired through him or her.

WeirdRaptor · **Reply #19 on:** December 12, 2008, 09:35:36 PM

I have to respectfully disagree with you here, Malte. I think giving a villain of this kind a background runs too close to make them too human/sympathetic and less menacing. Norman Bates of Alfred Hitchcock's classic "Psycho" is a perfect example of this. In the original version of the film, he was never given a proper diagnosis at the end, like in the theatrical version. So why was the Doctor included to tell us just why the heck Bates is so nutty? The producers said that leaving Bates' psychosis a mystery made the film too unsettling. In a nutshell, they made Hitchcock give Bates a more explained to motive to make him less scary. And yet, Mr. Bates is quite able to look and behave normally to his customers, yet he is completely insane.
The villain from "Disturbia" works the same way, only this time the filmmaker was allowed to not give him a proper background or motive. The villain in "Disturbia" is a serial killer who looks and acts normal on the surface, but unneath lies the mind of a maniac. We never find out why, because its not important. This is a lesson the filmmakers of "Hannibal Rising" did not take to heart, unfortunately.

As for your remark about how one would need to have a certain level of intelligent to fool everyone. I agree, but it doesn't work against my concept. We've seen the type in real life. There have been some maniacal killers in real life that we figure out even after we caught them. A lot of questions were left unanswered, and these are the most famous killers. In fact, arguably, the most famous serial killers in history is Jack and Ripper and the Zodiac Killer, and we still don't even know who the heck they were or why they did it, because they were never caught.
Now, doing it your way by giving the villain a background would probably make the villain function better as a character, but it would take from his ability to function of this kind of villain. In terms of a villain who acts out of insanity, instead of more logical motives, the more unanswered questions that surround them, the more daunting they seem. I think its safe to say that it is no coincidence that the most remembered killers are still make us raise an eyebrow, and that the most effective crazy villains have no background to speak of..

I like the scene you came up with. That would be a clever way for the villain to cover his trail, for a time, anyway.