Need some advice

[Mumbling]

Hey all

I never use the computer from which I'm typing this message right now. But my brothers do and of lately they have been complaining that if keeps on randomly shutting itself off without giving a warning. My parents have thought of buying a new computer (Which would be profitable for me because I would get this faster one), but instead I offered to help them.

The computer looks fine from both software and hardware for as far as I can see. I wonder if any one here has a hardware checking program/device that they could share with me? I want to know if perhaps there is just a broken stick of RAM or something else that could easily be fixed or taken out. I'd like to try and fix it, if at all possible.

I've already reinstalled windows XP on this computer (after formatting it of course), just to see if that was the cause, but it turned out it was not the cause since it's still giving many issues.

--

If I have tried to fix it and it's still broken I would like your opinion on the computer that might replace this one. My brothers mainly use this computer for browsing the web, but also for playing videogames, for example Team Fortress 2 or Left for Dead 2. Would the following specs be okay?

HP Pavilion p6550 (nl) for 580 euros.


Processor  Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 3,06 GHz
RAM  4096 MB
videocard - 3D-chip  ATI Radeon HD 5450
HD: 1TB with 7200 rpm
With Windows 7 Home Premium.

[Machine Slave]

Hard to tell what's going on, but it sounds like an hardware issue for me. When does it happen, and what happens exactly? Does it shut off (like pressing the power button) or does it freeze, Bluescreen?

One thing you should check are the temperatures. Maybe the computer needs some cleaning (from dust, hairs etc.). Check if all fans are running, even in idle and at full load. You can use Everest or HWMonitor to do this.

Check if in the Event Viewer are critical events logged at the time when the computer have shutted itself off.


EDIT:
I should also read the rest of your message next time.

Yes, the specifications are looking okay. But make sure the OS is a 64 Bit one, to have all the installed 4 GBytes of RAM (and for later upgrades).

[Mumbling]

Yep, it's an 64 bit one.

I just did a memory test run and it crashed when it was testing the RAM somewhere.. So I'm thinking it might either be that or something random that made it crash. I mean crash as in power off, no blue screen, no nothing.

I'll take one of the RAM sticks out tomorrow, use one of the two programs you recommended and see if I can find something odd/unusual, hoping the problem might be fixed by just taking one of the 2 ram sticks out.

[Machine Slave]

I mean crash as in power off, no blue screen, no nothing.

This doesn't sound good. Someone who is familiar with it should check the PSU immediatly.

[DarkHououmon]

Not sure how much it'll help but try looking at the logs the computer keeps on events that occur on the computer. Should be in Event Viewer. There's some different categories. It might help shed some light on the situation, but probably won't reveal exactly what's wrong. Still it might give some clues.

Another thing you can try is cleaning the computer itself. When was the last time someone opened it up and cleaned out the dust? Dust can cause a lot of problems. The old XP computer wouldn't even turn on one day because of all the dust that was in it, and it hadn't been cleaned in years.

[Mumbling]

^ Not sure when the last time was, but I'll clean it out today, just in case.

What's PSU Machine Slave?

[Machine Slave]

PSU = Power Supply Unit, it looks like that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ATX-Netzteil.jpg

EDIT:
I'm worried that the PSU might have a defect or something. If a computer just gets too hot, it doesn't shut off without warning. There should either a normal freeze, bluescreen or an acustic warning sound from the case. If I'm right and the PSU gets broken someday it could take some other components with it. In the worst case the PSU just goes "Boom" (exaggerated). I hope I'm wrong, but it should be checked.

[Mumbling]

Alrighty. I'll look into that.

[2007excalibur2007]

How much Watts is the PSU, exactly? It's possible that it may not have enough Watts to support the rig's specs. 400W is usually enough.

[Mumbling]

^That would be weird since this is a standard computer. We did not add any extra parts in it and I doubt a manufacturer gives us the wrong power supply.. But I'll look at it though.

[landbeforetimelover]

If a computer just gets too hot, it doesn't shut off without warning.

I don't know where you're getting your information, but yes it does.  If a computer's CPU overheats, it will shut down to prevent permanent damage.  I'd check the CPU fan to see if it's actually running.  If it is I'd download a program to monitor the CPU temperature.  It could also be the PSU, but in my experience if a computer is just turning off it's usually the CPU.  Ram would definitely cause either a blue screen or a freeze.  It would never result in the PC just turning itself off without warning.  How old is the current computer and who makes it?  I know Compaq had some really cheap crap thermal paste about 6-7 years ago so you might just need to apply some new stuff to it.  What type of processor do you have?  If it's an AMD, they run a lot hotter than Intel so you need decent thermal paste and a good fan.

As to the computer you mentioned in your original post, yeah it should be able to play most games out there but it's a total ripoff for the price.  Go with this machine:

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping.../HPE410t_series

It has 6gb of memory standard and has an i5 processor (better than the core2 series).  It tops off at around 540 euros so you still have a bit more you can spend for a better graphics card (you can get a better one by customizing it) and/or more ram.

[Mumbling]

The computer is about 2 or 3 years old (I'm uncertain). I'll check which processor it has etc later today.

[Machine Slave]

If a computer just gets too hot, it doesn't shut off without warning.

I don't know where you're getting your information, but yes it does.  If a computer's CPU overheats, it will shut down to prevent permanent damage.

That's what I have experienced. Hm, maybe the warning is disabled in the BIOS. That should be checked. And I agree, a defective (or incompatible) RAM would cause bluescreens or freezings.

You can find out everything about your computer using the program Everest, I have mentioned above. It also shows you the temperatures, fans etc.

http://www.lavalys.com/
http://www.cpuid.com/

[Petrie.]

If it crashed on a RAM test its a good hint there's something fishy with your RAM.  Bad sector or something?

And yes, if a computer is too hot, it will turn itself off.

[landbeforetimelover]

maybe the warning is disabled in the BIOS

There's rarely a warning unless the overheating problem isn't very severe.  99% of the time the computer will just turn off.  I suspect either your CPU or your motherboard, but since it's only 2-3 years old unless it's a Gateway or an eMachines, I tend to think it's a heat issue.  Either the CPU fan has died or the thermal paste has thinned.  Or maybe the processor is just shot.  It could always be the PSU as well, but I doubt it.

And Machine Slave...I suggest you refrain from just repeating what you hear online unless you're able to verify it with your own experiences.  Only give advice if you really know what you're talking about.  Computers aren't like they used to be.  They're very diverse and complex.  Just because your machine does something doesn't mean it's the norm or that another computer will act remotely like it in the same situation.  My experience comes not only from the ~200 computers that I personally own, but also from seeing 6-12 client computers every day and dealing with 6-12 different people's problems.

As for Everest, the program is more complicated then it needs to be for your particular issue.  Go download this:

http://www.afterdawn.com/software/system_t...n/core_temp.cfm

Also I was going to mention this earlier, but it's possible that the computer is blue screening but just restarting.  The computer is set by default to restart if it encounters a blue screen.  The blue screen will likely flash for a fraction of a second before the computer restarts.  But since you're saying that it's actually turning OFF and not restarting, I tend to believe that there is no blue screen and that your problem is definitely related to heat.  If you'd like to check, follow these steps (for windows Vista):

1.  Right click on "computer" (found under the start menu) and go to "properties"
2.  Over on the left side of the screen there will be an option that says "advanced system settings."  Click it.
3.  Click on the "settings" button under "startup and recovery"
4.  Under "system failure" uncheck "automatically restart"
5.  Click "Ok" and "Ok" on the two open windows and close the "system" window.

If you follow these steps and you get a blue screen, let me know.  If you do then this may be another issue.  But as I said, since it's shutting down and not restarting, I'm pretty sure it's a heat issue.

[Mumbling]

It's not restarting at all Austin. It just dies completely, as if you pulled out the plug.

[landbeforetimelover]

It's not restarting at all Austin. It just dies completely, as if you pulled out the plug.

Well then it's almost definitely a heat issue.  Download and run the program I linked to as it's easy as pie to understand.  If the CPU's heat level spikes after starting up, there's likely a problem.  Make sure nothing big is running when you run the program though.

[Machine Slave]

And Machine Slave...I suggest you refrain from just repeating what you hear online unless you're able to verify it with your own experiences.  Only give advice if you really know what you're talking about.  Computers aren't like they used to be.  They're very diverse and complex.  Just because your machine does something doesn't mean it's the norm or that another computer will act remotely like it in the same situation.  My experience comes not only from the ~200 computers that I personally own, but also from seeing 6-12 client computers every day and dealing with 6-12 different people's problems.

Well, I might not have being dealing with such amount of computers like you did, but I'm trying to help when I think I can. And, yes, you're right, a computer can shut off without any warning if the CPU is getting too hot. But every computer which is at least 4 or 5 years old has an option in the BIOS to set up a warning sound before this happens. The most computers I have encountered didn't have this option enabled.

Anyway... it doesn't matter for me who is right or wrong. There is an issue that should be solved before this issue can cause more damage than necessary.

[Mumbling]

Indeed. Thanks both of you for helping.

I opened up the computer yesterday. It was not dusty at all, since it had been brought to the store about 2 months ago and they cleaned it out. I took away some small pieces of dust, but nothing really too bad.

There was only one RAM stick, so I could not take it out to test it. I checked if the fans were all working when they were running, and yes they were. I felt if anything was overheating with my hand, but I don't think so. Today I'll run Austin's program and see what's going on.

By the way, also the PSU's fan was running, and it was like 350 watt if I remember correctly.

It's an Asus computer, and the front on the case says 'Spire' (not aspire, I think) never heard of that before, but meh.

[Machine Slave]

Hmm, Core Temp only shows the temperature of the CPU and no other sensors (just downloaded and tested). HWMonitor shows all sensors and the running speed of the fans. And this the most interesting for me.