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An Attempted Map Of The Lands

Almaron · 44 · 17810

Almaron

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Yep, same conclusion. Although you reminded me of something odd about one of the smoking mountains; in LBT 9, when Mo points out the smoking mountains to the GOF, they are to the southeast (assuming big water is to the east). However, in the very next scene they are going north! :confused

As for some of the mountains, I agree that there is the odd volcano all over the place. I assumed that there is a large patch of land to the south of the valley referred to as the smoking mountains (Parts of the mountains that burn looked like the areas in LBT2, and then to merge that with all the other nasty volcanic regions, including Threehorn Peak and those three peaks, makes it all fit. Or at least in my map).

Actually, upon re-reading your post, I like the idea of the three peaks being separate. It makes more sense for the herds to travel that way.

They must be on a large faultline of some sort. I actually just returned a rather good book on dinosaurs to the library, that actually had maps of where the animals were found (If you want to read it, it's the Usborne Book of Dinosaurs, and it has a large, badly drawn CGI T-Rex on the cover), and one section showed continent movement over the years. At some point in the cretaceous, it seemed as though there were three continents forming the Western US, like this (;|). If I read the map right, and there are multiple faultlines, then the horizontal fault could be the cause of the great divide, and the quake in 9, and the vertical fault the mountain range that forms the valley.

And to briefly change the subject, I really like those maps posted earlier, but I can't really see the details. If you read this post, Malte, could you please repost them a bit larger?


Almaron

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Y'know, what we really need is a picture that we can all easily edit. So we could make changes to a map of the LBT world without having to upload everything.

I remember hearing something about a website called "Your World Of Text", but I don't know much about it. It looks like a google thing, where you type a name at the end of the url, and that becomes a page on its own. Again, I don't know about it, so I can't vouch for spyware or anything, but it looks real, and I've seen people using it.

Basically, you get a large text page, and any part of it is editable by anyone at anytime, and everyone on the page will see any changes made. So using this, we could draw a map of the lands in text format, (with \ \ \ \ for mountains?) and then anyone could edit it and add their changes, or make a copy and change that. Either way, they should leave a log of their changes, in case the idea is debunked. I'm up for it, if it works.

EDIT: I've had another look at it, it seems fine, but it's really slow! At least on my computer. If the browser is smaller, it works better, but typing in stuff is a bit odd. You have to move around with the arrow keys, and type a letter in each box.


Pangaea

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Quote from: Almaron,Sep 27 2009 on  02:57 AM
Yep, same conclusion. Although you reminded me of something odd about one of the smoking mountains; in LBT 9, when Mo points out the smoking mountains to the GOF, they are to the southeast (assuming big water is to the east). However, in the very next scene they are going north! :confused
Hmm...well, if you look at the first shot in which the smoking mountains are visible, there appears to be a stretch of water projecting inland in front of them (just behind the rocky strip of land from which Littlefoot views the coral reef). It’s conceivable (though it sounds a bit unlikely :p) that the gang swam across this inlet to reduce the amount of walking they would have to do to get to the smoking mountains. When they came ashore, they would have been on the right of the river seen flowing into the inlet in the second shot, which would make the direction they were shown heading in make sense. (Of course, the explanation as a whole is a bit iffy; like the issue of the northward-bound spiketails, it’s just my best attempt at a logical explanation for what was probably a goof on the part of the LBT filmmakers. :p)

Also, I assumed the Big Water to be located west of the Great Valley. (I think the water seen spilling over the valley walls in movie IX is a temporary result of the storms, and is not connected to the Thundering Falls.) For another thing, in LBT V, the dinosaurs found the Big Water when they left the Great Valley in search of more food. Since they originally came to the valley from the east, I wouldn't think that they would look in that direction, knowing already that there was no food there. However, that would only exclude the Big Water from being to the east of the Great Valley, not the north or south. I’ll need to watch LBT V again before I can make any further statements I whose accuracy I can be confident of, but at this time, my assumption is that the Big Water lies to the west and southwest of the Great Valley, and possibly the south as well.




Pronounced "pan-JEE-uh". Spelled with three A's. Represented by a Lystrosaurus.


Almaron

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Evidence for it not being North or South is with the mountains. They travelled through a desert, we know the north to be mountainous, they wouldn't have travelled east, so Big Water is either south or west. SW, if we assume that Mo's route is west, and south leads to the Land Of Mists.


Pangaea

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^ Yeah, that's what I thought. :yes

Though I also came up with another idea: maybe the Land of Mists is itself located near the Big Water. Thick fog and/or frequent rain are often associated with coastal environments, such as the temperate rainforests of America’s Pacific Northwest. (Even the Namib Desert in eastern Africa experiences dense morning fogs on a near daily basis.) While we know the Land of Mists to have originally been a drier region, perhaps some sudden climactic change led to wetter conditions there. This would also explain what Archie, Ichy, and the Elasmosaurus that chases Dil (all marine animals) are doing living there. (A family of Archelon was seen in the Great Valley earlier on in LBT IV, but they or their ancestors may have arrived there the same way Mo did in IX.)



Pronounced "pan-JEE-uh". Spelled with three A's. Represented by a Lystrosaurus.


Almaron

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I agree, and (If I recall correctly) in the opening of the film, the camera pans over sea before reaching a land which becomes a (possibly THE) land of mists.

In some of my older maps, I placed the Land Of Mists in the S (In fact, more SSW), but with the forest ultimately giving way to sea in the west. I based this off that when they first look out over the LOM when they arrive, it just appears to be endless forest. So it could reach sea eventually.


Pangaea

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While watching the first LBT a few nights ago (for fun, not for purposes of research :p), I noticed that the pointy rocks in the lower left-hand corner of this shot (a location I will refer to by its central landmark, "The Pond",) are quite similar to the peaks of “Spire Valley”. This would mean that the rock precipice from which Littlefoot sees the cloud/ghost of his mother is at the top of the stony “ramp” he used to climb out of “Spire Valley”. (This is probably a reflection of how the movie was originally supposed to run, with Littlefoot finding the Great Valley almost immediately after parting with the others.) However, this implies that, in order to get the rest of the gang back on track, Littlefoot would have had to lead Ducky, Spike, and Petrie back the way they came with Cera, which, considering their near-fatal experiences with the tar pit and lava river, I’m guessing they would all be reluctant to do. In light of this, I have come up with a new theory: the caves in which Cera encounters the domeheads run northeast-southwest, connecting the area immediately beyond the tar pits with the vicinity of "The Pond". Perhaps by accident, the gang found an exit from the caves that led them straight back onto their original westbound route, with the additional bonus of a handy source of water for washing off any tar that was still stuck to them.

I also came to the realization that whenever the sun is visible in the first movie, it always seems to be in the process of setting. I base that observation on the fact that the characters are usually in the process of traveling to the Great Valley in these scenes, and are “walking away” from their shadows (which, under a setting sun, are cast eastward). As I said previously, I think the first film is the only one in which the sun’s position (if not the timing of its position) can be trusted as accurate more or less all of the time, because it is established early on as a compass to the Great Valley. Not that the movie is completely free of solar inconsistencies. For instance, when Littlefoot in his family are searching for food, their shadows are directly beneath them. Then, when they are shown walking towards the sun, it is low in the sky and elongating their shows. Then, when Littlefoot asks his mother if she has ever seen the Great Valley, their shadows are beneath them again. (However, such incongruities can probably be blamed on the way the scenes are sequenced, as much or more than carelessness on the part of the animators.)

A few other minor observations I made on the first LBT:
ï The Great Divide (at least the section of it visible in the film) runs north to south.
ï The “head” of the Rock That Looks Like A Longneck points south. (The RTLLAL, by the way, is visible in the shot when the gang is climbing the rocks, and Littlefoot suggests that the Great Valley may be at the top.)
ï The Mountains That Burn consist of at least a dozen volcanic peaks of varying shape and height (but whose sizes relative to the dinosaurs are uncertain) positioned close together, plus one extremely large standalone volcano that Cera, Ducky, Petrie, and Spike are shown passing. Another (non-erupting) volcano is visible in the background as Cera approaches the tar pits, which may represent a fourteenth peak, or one of the first twelve seen.
ï Not actually an observation, but a hypothesis: perhaps the waterfall Cera stops to cry in front of is connected with the reservoir that feeds the Thundering Falls.



Pronounced "pan-JEE-uh". Spelled with three A's. Represented by a Lystrosaurus.


Almaron

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Quote
While watching the first LBT a few nights ago (for fun, not for purposes of research ), I noticed that the pointy rocks in the lower left-hand corner of this shot (a location I will refer to by its central landmark, "The Pond",) are quite similar to the peaks of “Spire Valley”. This would mean that the rock precipice from which Littlefoot sees the cloud/ghost of his mother is at the top of the stony “ramp” he used to climb out of “Spire Valley”. (This is probably a reflection of how the movie was originally supposed to run, with Littlefoot finding the Great Valley almost immediately after parting with the others.) However, this implies that, in order to get the rest of the gang back on track, Littlefoot would have had to lead Ducky, Spike, and Petrie back the way they came with Cera, which, considering their near-fatal experiences with the tar pit and lava river, I’m guessing they would all be reluctant to do. In light of this, I have come up with a new theory: the caves in which Cera encounters the domeheads run northeast-southwest, connecting the area immediately beyond the tar pits with the vicinity of "The Pond". Perhaps by accident, the gang found an exit from the caves that led them straight back onto their original westbound route, with the additional bonus of a handy source of water for washing off any tar that was still stuck to them.

Totally agree with you there.
By the way, I'm glad you posted those pictures. In the second one, look under the head of the longneck ghost; the rock that they push onto Sharptooth's head is sitting there on its ramp. Further evidence of the original film order.

Quote
ï The Great Divide (at least the section of it visible in the film) runs north to south.
I'd say more NW-SE. It can't go due N-S, otherwise the GOF would have met up with their parents at some point along the journey, or they would have attempted to cross into the other lands. There are different camera shots which show the mountains and ridge in different places. I don't know if this is as helpful, but in 13, you can see that the divide reaches the mountains (Which would make sense).


Kor

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Maybe taking into account some screen shots from the movies and tv series may help in some cases.  Not sure if many have taken screen shots or not.

1 place close to the Great Valley likely is an area of geysers that the inhabitants, or at least Ruby and I think Chomper, called jumping water.


Pangaea

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Quote from: Almaron,Oct 7 2009 on  02:47 PM
By the way, I'm glad you posted those pictures. In the second one, look under the head of the longneck ghost; the rock that they push onto Sharptooth's head is sitting there on its ramp. Further evidence of the original film order.
Yup. Saw that. You pointed that out before. ;) I'm glad you did, because that's what made me think to compare that shot with the one of "Spire Valley".

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Quote
ï The Great Divide (at least the section of it visible in the film) runs north to south.
I'd say more NW-SE. It can't go due N-S, otherwise the GOF would have met up with their parents at some point along the journey, or they would have attempted to cross into the other lands.
You're probably right; in addition, if the adults were cut off on the eastern side of the Divide, then the gang should have made it to the Great Valley before them (except for maybe Petrie's family :p). As it is, I'm guessing that the reason the gang's families reached the Great Valley first is that, none of the gang, apart from Littlefoot, knew how to get there, and he spent an unspecified amount of time (possibly days) wandering around in a depressed state following his mother's death. The adults, forced to move on or risk starvation, would meanwhile have found another path to the west, and gained a head start.

Quote
There are different camera shots which show the mountains and ridge in different places. I don't know if this is as helpful, but in 13, you can see that the divide reaches the mountains (Which would make sense).
I may be misinterpreting you here, but are you suggesting that the Divide reaches all the way to the Great Valley? I'm not sure I believe that (though if you have any evidence or hypotheses to offer, I’m open to being convinced :p). Which scene in XIII are you talking about?



Pronounced "pan-JEE-uh". Spelled with three A's. Represented by a Lystrosaurus.


Almaron

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I originally didn't think that the divide did reach to the mountains around the valley, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence that it stops. Think about it. Littlefoot and the others may have gone westsouthwest, to a greener area. They might have missed the end of it. Plus, Littlefoot says that there doesn't appear to be an area where anyone can cross. Of course, he may just mean the general area, but it might have looked impassable.

As for the scene in 13, when the GOF follow Loofah and Doofah out of the valley and onto the ledge, a large barren land is visible, as well as a huge divide that splits the land in two. This barren land looks quite a bit like the lands from the first film, hence the large crevasse could be the great divide.



aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)

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This is very well thought out. :) Has anyone actually posted a map of the lands yet, or is it all words for now?


Almaron

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There's my old map on Deviantart, which I think is still mostly accurate, except for the placement of the Saurus Rock valley and the route from 8, which after reading the notes of others, I think should be the other way around (Saurus Rock to the NW, 8 Route to the North). There's also other maps drawn by other people that have been posted or linked to earlier on on this page (As well as a historically accurate map of the world during the cretaceous). Most are on the first page, but I'll post a picture of my old map here as well.



aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)

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Does this map incorporate locations and clues from the television series?


Almaron

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Nope, I haven't seen the Tv series, so I wouldn't know where to place them. Feel free to use this as a base, if you want to add them in. (BTW, the scale on my map is VERY wrong)

I think Malte had a map of locations that he posted earlier, that might help.


aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)

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The television series is available on landbeforetimelover's website if you want to see them. Just click on the link in his signature from any of his posts. That's where I saw them.


Pangaea

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Quote from: Almaron,Oct 8 2009 on  08:32 PM
As for the scene in 13, when the GOF follow Loofah and Doofah out of the valley and onto the ledge, a large barren land is visible, as well as a huge divide that splits the land in two. This barren land looks quite a bit like the lands from the first film, hence the large crevasse could be the great divide.
The problem I have with that is that there appear to be many large canyons and crevasses in the Mysterious Beyond, particularly to the north of the Great Valley. We have the Big Ditch from LBT VI, the deep, narrow, relatively smooth-sided trench the gang tried to stop Guido from falling into in XII, and the wider canyon with the rapids at the bottom in LBT VII in which they pioneered the art of water-skiing. :p (It’s possible that some of these may be connected with one another.)

I think it’s more likely that the Divide extends northward and/or southward to a mountain chain or other impassable geological obstruction that runs east to west, thereby separating the gang’s route westwards from their families’. It is unclear just how far away the effects of the Great Earthshake were felt, but if the Divide reached all the way to the Great Valley, then presumably the tremors themselves also extended that far. In that scenario, wouldn’t many of the relatively delicate-looking rock formations near the Great Valley (and along the way to it) been demolished by such a tremendous seismological event? (Imagine how much more difficulty Littlefoot and his friends might have had finding the Great Valley if the Rock That Looks Like A Longneck had been destroyed.)

Another thing I realized is that there is still some question as to how the gang’s families and other adult dinosaurs actually entered the Great Valley. The gang, presumably, climbed down into the valley from the precipice they first saw it from, but I can’t imagine a herd of fully grown dinosaurs (especially quadrupedal ones) using the same route. This would necessitate a fairly large and level entryway in the eastern or northeastern wall of the Great Valley (perhaps the same as the walled-up gap in LBT II?).

By the way, this is a bit outside the subject of this thread, but I was doing a bit of research on earthquakes, and thought to find out what type of earthquake the Great Earthshake of the first movie was most similar to. I am convinced that it was most probably a megathrust earthquake, the largest and most destructive type (the only variety of earthquake known to attain a moment magnitude of 9.0 or higher). A megathrust earthquake occurs where two tectonic plates converge, pushing up against each other. Eventually, one plate subducts, or slides beneath the other, and in the process the other plate is thrust upwards. Likewise, the original LBT earthshake was attributed to “the clash of continents”, and one side of the resulting chasm was elevated high above the other. The only problem is that megathrust quakes typically involve an oceanic plate (made denser and heavier by water) subducting beneath a continental plate, because when two continental plates meet, both are of equal weight, and cannot subduct. Such collisions result in mountain ranges, not megathrust quakes. But then again, LBT is not particularly adherent to the laws of nature, so we can probably disregard this little detail. :p



Pronounced "pan-JEE-uh". Spelled with three A's. Represented by a Lystrosaurus.


Almaron

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Another thing I realized is that there is still some question as to how the gang’s families and other adult dinosaurs actually entered the Great Valley. The gang, presumably, climbed down into the valley from the precipice they first saw it from, but I can’t imagine a herd of fully grown dinosaurs (especially quadrupedal ones) using the same route. This would necessitate a fairly large and level entryway in the eastern or northeastern wall of the Great Valley (perhaps the same as the walled-up gap in LBT II?).

(Was reading through all this again, and I thought of something else) Something that always struck me as odd was that in LBT 6, Grandpa Longneck's story of the Lone Dinosaur takes place in the Great Valley, and Saurus Rock soon emerges from the ground at the same place. Yet, Saurus Rock exists outside of the valley in a forested area that is clearly not safe, as several Sharpteeth inhabit it. I think that this region was once a part of the Great Valley, but the earthquake that created the statue may have also created a route into the area (alternatively, it could just be that the area was never safe to begin with, and was later abandoned. I mean, a Sharptooth did just enter it with no real hassle).

Grandpa Longneck does manage to follow the GOF over the mountains and into the valley that Saurus Rock is in. Presumably, the migrating herds used this route to enter the valley (who knows, Grandpa and Grandma Longneck could have mistaken "Saurus Rock" for "The Rock That Looks Like A Longneck", and headed inwards from there).


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I'm not sure if this will help, but... this

I tried to address this question of the Great Divide while writing my FF. For some reason, I've always believed that the Great Divide is currently the Huerfano River in Colorado. The canyon runs mainly north-south. If the adults were trapped on the west side, all they'd have to do is to go west. Although there are mountains in their path, I have found paths around the mountains. The GOF was trapped on the eastern side. They can not walk north, as the Mowry Sea would be in their way; their only option is to go south. The divide slowly turns into a more diagonal divide running southwest to northeast. After going southwest to the end of the divide, they find a big mountain range, one including Barbra Peak, McGaffey Ridge, the Carson National Forest, and Santa Fe National Forest. They can not climb these mountains, so they go further south, around Starvation Peak, before continuing West.

This path would take them a lot longer, but after they have made their way around the mountains, they can go northwest and follow the trail made by the adults.  At this point however, they are all the way in Northern New Mexico. The rock that looks like a long-neck is the crossing point of the two trails. The Great Valley is in Northern Utah. They continue Northwest before reaching the Great Valley. Their route, today, is largely I-70, US-285, and Co-64.

(really don't know if this helped, but at least it's a theory)


Almaron

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I was just reading some things on Wikipedia, and I found this image of what North America may have looked like in the Late Cretaceous. I figured that the Great Valley must be there, as most of the dinosaurs seen in the series are from there.

Picture

NA as depicted here would surely be large enough to accomodate all the locations of the LBT series easily. You could even explain the odd placement of some dinosaurs normally found in other areas as being stranded there after the disappearance of land bridges. For instance, it's generally assumed that Ducky's a Saurolophus from Asia, and at some point Asia was connected to America via Beringia, so that explains that. Thoughts?