If LBT was a democracy...

Grungecat · **on:** July 10, 2009, 12:33:25 PM

So a couple weeks ago, Alex was trying to get me to join the GOF, saying I could infuse my likings with LBT and get the desired result. From that suggestion spawned a very interesting question. If general elections were held in the Great Valley, who would win?!

As for president, I think it's pretty clear who the frontrunners would be...Grandpa Longneck pitted against the conservative Topsy (who most likely would nominate himself, if we know the same Topsy). As I think back through the conflicts within the Great Valley, it always seems to be the voice of fairness and reason, Grandpa Longneck, versus Topsy, who lingers between erring on the side of caution and outright fascism. When push comes to shove, and if it were a fair election, I would see Grandpa Longneck just barely winning the election over Topsy.

Anyone think differently? Think someone else would be elected? What of the other offices? Lets hear it!

Malte279 · **Reply #1 on:** July 10, 2009, 12:51:32 PM

I guess one question is why the Great Valley would need a leader in the first place whose commands everyone (including the minority who did not vote for him) would be obliged to follow. The land before time, or at least the rather save Great Valley, is mostly bare of many of the difficulties which require more complex government structures of real life.
In a sense the Great Valley even does have kind of a democratic system, but it seems to be a direct democracy rather than the indirect democracy represented by elected leaders. In case of important decisions they just vote on the decision rather than someone else to decide it for them (this at least is suggested in LBT 7). In LBT 3 we have the most autocratic behavior on the part of Cera's father, but in the scene with the fire we see that the only one whom Cera's father sort of "forces" to come along is Cera and even she seems to sort of make up her mind to follow him. This however is more of a parental authority rather than an authocratic leadership thing.
My main point is that in fact democracy does exist in the Great Valley but it is a direct democracy which we have hardly ever seen since the days of the Greek city states (and since then only on a limited communal level if at all (one might further add that by number of citizens the direct democracy in the Greek city states was not much more dimension-wise than the communal level of direct democracy, but that the city states of course possessed sovereignty, which is not the case with contemporary communal decisions)).

Vilstrup · **Reply #2 on:** July 10, 2009, 05:34:05 PM

First off, I agree with you Grungecat about that it probably would be Grandpa Longneck who would win, except I don't think it would be a "close run" between him and Topsy.
Second, I agree with Malte on that the Great Valley does indeed have a democratic counsel, where the different species of dinosaurs are represented by their leaders. Topsy, being the leader of the Threehorn herds, would ofcause have a "seat" on the counsel. However, as you said Malte, they don't have one leader who decides everything, but tend instead to discuss the problem and possible sollutions before taking action.
This is where Littlefoot and the gang tend to show, that instead of having a counsel who debate all day, a leader who takes immidate action is sometimes better. In a way, the LBT movies show two different leaderships. The gang which sometimes, if not most of the time, is build on the "one leader" concept with Littlefoot taking most of the major decsions, while the Great Valley counsel shows the "all is directly represented" way, where all have to agree on the course of action.

Pangaea · **Reply #3 on:** July 10, 2009, 06:21:37 PM

You really think Littlefoot makes most of the major decisions for the rest of the gang? I'll grant that he often shows the most initiative, but I wouldn't say he's in charge of everyone else. (Even in the first movie, in which the need for the others to follow Littlefoot was most dire, due to him being the only one with knowledge of the Great Valley's location, Ducky, Petrie, and Spike eventually chose to leave him and follow Cera, due to her route of choice being less arduous.) A lot of the time I think Littlefoot's just the one who says "let's go!" and then everyone else follows him of their own volition. This is reflected in LBT IX, when Littlefoot laments having made the rest of the gang become friends with Mo (believing him to be dead). The others' immediate response is that Littlefoot never made them befriend Mo; they chose to be friends with him. Likewise, while Littlefoot often "leads" his friends in carrying out a plan or idea of his own design, I think they usually agree with said ideas by virtue of them being good ones, not necessarily because it was Littlefoot who came up with them. (I'm getting a sense of dÈj‡ vu here. Didn't somebody else make almost the exact same statement as the one I'm giving here in a similar topic?)

Malte279 · **Reply #4 on:** July 11, 2009, 03:15:09 AM

Quote

Second, I agree with Malte on that the Great Valley does indeed have a democratic counsel, where the different species of dinosaurs are represented by their leaders.

Actually that is NOT what I said. My interpretation of that "counsel" is that everyone can just speak there nobody being represented by anyone but him- or herself. Of course it is likely that some outspoken, eloquent, or old character's input is given a greater weight in the individual's consideration, but I don't think there was any kind of agreement of anyone speaking for anyone else there (which would be a representative / indirect rather than the direct democracy which I interpret it to be).
As for Littlefoot in the gang he often gets his way as sometimes he is just as stubborn as Cera and not very ready to understand if anyone is thinking different about something that he considers unjust (most strikingly in LBT 6). We don't take this awry from Littlefoot as usually his strong sense of justice makes his decisions more acceptable to us than those of any other characters but I sometimes wonder how much there really is to his being the great leader or if it is more like most of the others being rather willing followers when he is around (which is of course also partly due to the fact that most of the time his decisions make sense).

Vilstrup · **Reply #5 on:** July 11, 2009, 04:55:41 AM

Suspecian confirmed..... I hate politics, and goverment systems

Malte279 · **Reply #6 on:** July 11, 2009, 06:32:19 AM

I do not. Our societies have become too complex to work without any governmental systems. Governments are such a necessity in our world that hating politics and governments as such is about as sensible as hating the need to breathe. Undoubtedly there is A LOT to be improved about the way our societies are being run and it would be good if every individual took a greater part in running society than allowing him or herself being overrun by a society which is perceived as being run by others only.
Hating and avoiding government and politics out of principle is no way to improve either I'm afraid.

Alex · **Reply #7 on:** July 11, 2009, 07:47:20 AM

Well I think it would probably go down like this, you know. Ducky would be elected President, and she would probably place her mom as VP. As for her cabinet, Petrie would probably snag the Cheif of Staff position. Chomper would have to be Secretary of State. I think I could see Topsy as Sec. Def., would kinda fit him. The entire race of the Tinysauruses could act as the Senate. I don't think Grandpa would hold an office, I think he'd just act the 'retired but rich and wise' kinda guy for the Great Valley, like the Warren Buffet of the dinosuars. That's about all I can think of.

Grungecat · **Reply #8 on:** July 11, 2009, 08:41:18 AM

Malte is right, and I apologize for wording it as "If LBT was a democracy". When we look at what type of government would/does exist in the Great Valley...it's just a bunch of dinosaurs with moral centers doing nothing but eating all day!

. Nobody has to go to work or buy things or have aid because they're poor. A government simply isn't needed.

I just wanted to know who would win an election if for some reason they were to ever be hypothetically held.

I like your choices, Alex! The Tinysauruses would be too great of a senate though. we need squabling old men who would never agree on anything!

Oh, and for anyone not from America, please do post results in your country's system of government. I've never had a Prime Minister, so I wouldn't be a fair pick to judge which dinosaur would make a good one!

P.S Google Ads are getting smarter..an ad for an online game "Democracy 2" is gracing the bottom of my page.

Vilstrup · **Reply #9 on:** July 11, 2009, 09:57:21 AM

Quote

Actually that is NOT what I said

I think I messed that reply pretty bad up, since I got most of it tankelt up in itself :unsure: :unsure:

I do agree with you on the subject that our sociaties wouldn't work without a goverment system.
However, I still find it annoying...

Paradise Bird · **Reply #10 on:** July 11, 2009, 11:18:14 PM

Maybe Sharptooth!

aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato) · **Reply #11 on:** August 03, 2009, 01:01:41 AM

I'm going to go against the flow and say Topsy would win an election, and that's because he shouts louder and picks confrontational, easy-to-understand decisions on all issues. Grandpa Longneck, being the voice of reason, must occasionally pick viewpoints that the general population would disagree with for selfish reasons. Topsy does not have this problem, as his motivations are extremely self -orientated, like most adult dinosaurs we've seen in the Great Valley.

Remember, the thread didn't ask who would make the better leader, or who you personally would vote for, but who in the Great Valley, with Great Valley voters, would win.

karkovice · **Reply #12 on:** August 25, 2009, 09:21:58 AM

I don't who would win an actual election, if one were ever held in the LBT universe; but I do know that in my fanfics, there is a Great Valley Grand Council similar to a Town Council, with Little Foot as the "Mayor", and an elderly Topsy as one of the threehorn Councilors. Nobody is actually "elected" onto the Council. They are named by Little Foot. But they do vote on certain issues. I think that's about a close to a democracy as they're going to get.

I'm currently working on a story where I describe, in detail, some of that "politicking" stuff going on.

Just look for the link in the fanfiction section when it's done.

But if I were to cast my vote, I'd vote for Little Foot.