The Gang of Five
The forum will have some maintenance done in the next couple of months. We have also made a decision concerning AI art in the art section.


Please see this post for more details.

LBT songs sung by mumbling

Mumbling · 81 · 12628

Mumbling

  • Administrator
  • Littlefoot
  • *
    • Posts: 8943
    • View Profile
Ok another one.. ehmm it is dutch.. and at some places i didnt reach the best notes i could. but as this was the only silent time I had to sing it :p. Maybe I'll resing this one.

(driveway isnt working)
Vriendjes voor altijd (bestest friends)


Nimrod

  • Member+
  • Ducky
  • *
    • Posts: 2737
    • View Profile
    • http://www.landbeforetimefreak.npage.de
aw, very nice and sweet Mumbling. I love your voice. Great singing. :)


Kor

  • The Circle
  • The Gang of Five
  • *
    • Posts: 30087
    • View Profile
I just listened to the file, and you sing very well.  I really enjoyed listening to you singing.  Even though I didn't understand the language.


Malte279

  • The Circle
  • The Gang of Five
  • *
    • Posts: 15608
    • View Profile
    • http://www.ineinemlandvorunsererzeit.de.vu
At the risk of repeating others just as myself, you have a really beautiful voice and know how to use it :yes


Mumbling

  • Administrator
  • Littlefoot
  • *
    • Posts: 8943
    • View Profile
Bestest friends
heh english version now, and Driveway worked again. Have fun listening.

(because the silence is gone again)



Clawandfang

  • Petrie
  • *
    • Posts: 980
    • View Profile
Your voice is great, but the one thing niggling me is the amount of Windows sounds which seem to creep into a lot of the things you do.

Other than that, truly excellent.


Mumbling

  • Administrator
  • Littlefoot
  • *
    • Posts: 8943
    • View Profile
Quote from: Clawandfang,Apr 8 2008 on  07:25 PM
Your voice is great, but the one thing niggling me is the amount of Windows sounds which seem to creep into a lot of the things you do.

Other than that, truly excellent.
xD I know. My computer is reaaaaaaaallly weird sometimes. But if I have sung a song there is hardly an oppertunity to resing it. Because there is a lot of noice here, parents little brothers pets etc. But ok I still think it is the computers.. It makes a lot of sounds even when I am not doing anything. I am used to it though.

Haha this is sort of funny. Sometimes you guys asked what I ment with noise on the background. Well now I have recorded my singing without telling my familymembers I was going to sing.. Welcome in my world..:

when you're on your own, with noice:D
when you're on your own, with noice:D
By the way I am probably going to remix this song when I am going to start a project, I really like it.


Mumbling

  • Administrator
  • Littlefoot
  • *
    • Posts: 8943
    • View Profile
by the way there is no music on the background.. at least, not of the song.


Kor

  • The Circle
  • The Gang of Five
  • *
    • Posts: 30087
    • View Profile
I enjoyed it.  It was interesting for folks who wonder more of what your background sounds like most of the time.


action9000

  • Member+
  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 5742
    • View Profile
I listened to your "When You're On Your Own" and once again, you amazed me!  You even managed to nail that high note ("It's", waaaay up in the stratosphere somewhere) at the end of the song. B)  :wow

Quote
By the way I am probably going to remix this song when I am going to start a project, I really like it.
That sounds pretty cool!  What will you be using to remix it?  What to you plan on doing? :)  Do you mean to remake it like I've been doing or do you have something else in mind?


Mumbling

  • Administrator
  • Littlefoot
  • *
    • Posts: 8943
    • View Profile
Quote from: action9000,Apr 10 2008 on  05:21 AM
I listened to your "When You're On Your Own" and once again, you amazed me!  You even managed to nail that high note ("It's", waaaay up in the stratosphere somewhere) at the end of the song. B)  :wow

Quote
By the way I am probably going to remix this song when I am going to start a project, I really like it.
That sounds pretty cool!  What will you be using to remix it?  What to you plan on doing? :)  Do you mean to remake it like I've been doing or do you have something else in mind?
I don't know yet Action :p . It just came into my mind... I'm just going to live my life and see what it is going to bring me :)


action9000

  • Member+
  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 5742
    • View Profile
Quote
I don't know yet Action  . It just came into my mind... I'm just going to live my life and see what it is going to bring me 
Sounds like a plan. :)


Mumbling

  • Administrator
  • Littlefoot
  • *
    • Posts: 8943
    • View Profile
Action, can you tell me more about Sonar? I do not have the money to buy it of course, but I'd like to know something more about the program.


action9000

  • Member+
  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 5742
    • View Profile
Sure!  "Cakewalk Sonar" is too powerful and complex to explain in one post but I'm happy to try and sum it up.  I haven't used it *a lot* (I prefer FL Studio's workflow) but I'll explain what I can.

First thing first, here's the official website.
http://cakewalk.com/SONAR/English/default.asp

Sonar is a fully-capable Digital Audio Workstation (DAW).  That means that, on its own, can be used all the way from the first phase of a music project all the way up to mixing and mastering the final release that can be distributed (commercially or otherwise).  It's a very high-end tool, used and respected by audio pros around the world.

Sonar is what's known as a "host program" or "host application".  There is a Huge variety of other audio software which can "plug into" a host application in order to expans its functionality.  Sonar includes a wide range of plugins when you purchase it, including audio effects such as convolution reverb (AMAZING technology by the way!  It uses a recorded impulse from a real-world location in order to simulate that same location with any audio that you run through the plugin.  It's a bit CPU-intensive but the results are outstanding), single and multiband compression (control the dynamic range of various frequencies of an audio file), vocal tuners andvirtual instruments, among tens of others I'll get a little more into later on.

Here's a screenshot of what Sonar can look like, fully-loaded:
http://cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/English/New/Collage.htm
Needless to say, Sonar benefits greatly from having two (or more!) monitors to help fit everything on the screen. B)

Sonar is capable of working with both live instruments and virtual instruments, via MIDI data.  Don't let the term MIDI scare you into thinking it automatically will sound like crap.  MIDI (Musical Instrument Digital Interface) is simply a protocol (language, if you will) used by various audio hardware and software to communicate.  MIDI can be transmitted from a hardware or software instrument (say, a keyboard) to tell a synthesizer or sampler (a sampler is basically a program which contains a library of .wav or other audio files which are played back when instructed to by a MIDI command) what to do (note G4 on at MIDI channel 1, for example).  Without getting too much more into MIDI and virtual instruments, let's get back to Sonar. :p

Sonar can be used to record and manipulate audio data in ways you may have never imagined.  If you have a sound card (audio interface is another term for 'sound card') with multiple inputs for example, you can record multiple instruments/vocalists simultaneously and send each performer's recordings to seperate "tracks".  The audio on each track can be modified, compressed, equalized, stretched, tuned and otherwise played with as much as necessary within Sonar, using a variety of plugins and tools included with Sonar.  The benefit of recording every performer/performance to a seperate track is that they can be manipulated individually.  If one person is out of tune, for example, you can modify just that single recording without messing up any of the others.  Sonar gives you the option for hundreds or even thousands of tracks running simultaneously...basically, if your computer can handle it, Sonar can do it.
A feature I loved in Sonar when mixing the vocals for "Things Change" in our last LBT project: Envelopes!
You can think of an envelope as an effect, basically.  The path the data takes through Sonar is simply this:
Recorded sound -> Effects -> Output to speakers
An Envelope is simply a layer that is placed on top of the recorded sound in order to manipulate it in real-time before you hear it through the speakers.  It's different from say, a reverb plugin because an envelope can change its value hundreds or even thousands of times per second.  A perfect example of an envelope that I used a LOT in our projects is Volume.  In Sonar, you can simply draw a curve on top of the recorded audio you see on the scree.  This curve is literally how the volume of that audio clip behaves.  If I want to fade one voice out and another voice in, I simply draw a line down to Minimum during the time in the audio I want to fade the first voice out and draw a line to the desired volume level on the track I want to fade in.  Of course, you have full control of the rate at which volumes change.  Besides volume, envelopes can be used to control basically any trait of a sound clip that you can think of, including panning (placement of the sound within the stereo image of the left/right speakers, and surround speakers in the case of a surround sound mix), filtering (you can have a low-pass filter's cutoff point change over time, for example), among countless other attributed.  Envelopes also exist in FL Studio and they are equally functional.  FL does lack the precision audio editting that Sonar has, though.  In general, envelopes and similar editting is easier in Sonar than in FL Studio.

Even if you're not doing Any (or very little) live recording, Sonar is very powerful.  If you want my honest opinion though, Sonar is better for live recordings than working with MIDI data.  If you intend to work primarily with MIDI and virtual instruments, I would recommend FL Studio over Sonar simply because of the work environment.  I should also mention that, like Sonar, FL Studio is a fully-capable DAW for producing and mastering music.
Anywho...
Sonar gives you a decent number of virtual instruments.  Virtual instruments, by the way, are just what you'd expect them to be: They are plugins running within Sonar that generate sound.  You can set up a MIDI track in Sonar, point it to a virtual instrument and when the MIDI track sends a message, the virtual instrument plays the sound.  THis sound can then be adapted and modified using any other plugin available to Sonar.  Virtual instruments and other plugins may be purchased from both Cakewalk and 3rd party vendors.
Sounds Online / EastWest offers some absolutely fantastic orchestral virtual instruments.  I recently picked up the Platinum edition of Symphonic Orchestra.  It really does give you control and sound quality that you'd never expect to have working with a virtual orchestra.  The demos on this site speak for themselves.

Sonar offers a number of ways to compose ("Sequence") your MIDI data.  You can think of MIDI data as sheet music or an old-time "Piano roll" with the holes cut in a roll of paper for an automatic-playing piano to read and press down the keys as the paper roll moves through.  Sonar offers both of these options as environments to write your MIDI music in.  

*That being said though*, many virtual instruments DO NOT function well when MIDI data is written entirely in the sheet music view.  The reason for this is rather complex to explain to somebody who may not have much exposure to working with virtual instruments.  The reason is this:
All virtual instruments rely on existing data, whether it be a mathematical formula which generates a sound wave (in the case of a synthesizer) or a library of pre-recorded .wav files (called "samples) which are played through a user-friendly exterior (in the case of a sampler).  The problem is, this data is produced, in most cases, to be relatively "generic", to be suitable for a wide range of musical situations.  The downside to this is that the producer/composer needs to get a bit creative with the sequencing (composing) of the MIDI data in order to make it sound good.  Sheet music has extremely strict timing.  The first beat of the 3rd measure, for example, in sheet music will Always start Exactly on Beat 1 of the measure.  The problem is, what if you're trying to compose a smooth, connected melodic line?  What if your samples have a long attack time?  The long attack sounds nice and expressive on the first note in the melodic phrase but beyond that note, it just sounds very fake and "synthetic".  Why?  The attack on the sample isn't natural.  The .wav file starts playing right on the beginning of Beat 1 of the 3rd measure but the .wav file has, say, 100 milliseconds of buildup/attack on the note.  As a result....so much for that smooth connected melodic phrase!

That's where the "piano roll view" comes in handy!  In the piano roll view, notes appear as horizontal bars, with the playback marker scrolling from left-to-right.  The higher the bar is vertically, the higher the pitch of the note.  In the previous example, one could easily smooth out the melodic passage by simply moving the later notes to the left (earlier) a little bit to compensate for the attack time.  The end of the previous note would blend with the start of the current note, resulting in a nice, smooth musical phrase.   B)

The downside is that Sonar has a rather poor, awkward piano roll view, especially when compared to FL Studio's.  FL Studio has NO sheet music view at all.  Its MIDI functions rely entirely on the piano roll view.

Here is a screenshot of Sonar's Piano Roll view:
http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/images/kb2005275_1.jpg

By comparison, here's FL Studio's Piano Roll:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Aug02/imag...loopsjw04.l.gif

I know they don't look a great deal different from the screenshots (except the colour scheme).  It would take me another essay to explain just why FL's piano roll is so much more user-friendly.  The short answer is, the tools are much more easily-accessable, moving notes around is more streamlined, it's easier on the eyes, everything you need is right there, and the mouse clicks/hotkeys make a lot more sense than in Sonar.  By the way, FL Studio's piano roll can get very classy and professional-looking by changing a few options which are disabled by whoever took this screenshot. :p I'll post up a screenshot of my FL Studio and you'll see what I mean.
Here's a piano roll screenshot of my remix of If We Hold On Together.
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h141/action9000/fl2.jpg
You can see the volume envelope in that salmon-coloured area at the bottom of the screen. I drew that in with the mouse and the volume of the selected instrument follows that curvature. :)

Sonar has a very pretty sheet music view:
http://pianologist.com/wp-content/uploads/...piano-score.jpg

Too bad it's not very useful when doing any real MIDI work (as explained above). :p

In short:
Sonar is most ideal for the producer that uses MIDI a little bit as a secondary function ad focuses primarily on recorded audio.  Perhaps Sonar is more appealing if you aren't as addicted to FL Studio as I am (I absolutely love FL Studios' workflow and environment). :p  On the flipside though, I belong to a forum where many of the people do primarily MIDI work and some of them swear by Sonar just as I swear by FL Studio.  Is Sonar bad for MIDI?  No, I don't think so.  I personally find FL Studio more streamlined but that may just be because of how I like to work.

Sonar is an amazing all-in-one package, even without picking up any additional plugins or virtual instruments.  It includes a nice assortment of both to get you started.  Unlike FL Studio, Sonar is also fully-capable of producing surround-sound mixes of your music.

Bottom line: Sonar is a monster of a program that takes  a lot of learning and getting used to but it's absolutely incredible if you can learn it.  The MIDI part especially takes getting used to.  I'm not a fan of its MIDI features but that doesn't mean it's bad.  I know people who love it. :p  I really like Sonar for its audio manipulation features, which makes it ideal for mixing vocals to music.  If you're writing MIDI music in Sonar though, get ready for a few headaches...at least in my experience.

FL Studio is a much lighter-weight package (that doesn't demand 2 monitors unless you really want to use 2 monitors :p.  I actually use 2 monitors with FL Studio and it's great. It's not necessary though - I used one forever.) which, unless you NEED the benefits that Sonar offers, probably makes more sense to a hobbiest or even a professional.  FL Studio is fully-capable of recording and manipulating audio, just as Sonar is.  The workflow for audio recordings isn't as nice as Sonar but it gets the job done if needed.  I've produced mixed a half a dozen of our LBT songs entirely in FL Studio and the results were every bit as good as when I used Sonar.  I also want to note that All of the background music I did for our LBT songs here was produced entirely in FL Studio (using 3rd-party virtual instruments from EastWest to generate the sounds), not Sonar.

Unfortunately, while FL Studio is capable with handing and manipulating audio recordings/vocals, it's not as easy to do the "finishing touches" in FL Studio as it is in Sonar.

Another difference:
FL Studio 8: Producer Edition (which I use): $200
Sonar 7: Producer Edition (I've played with Sonar 6): $620
Definitely another point to consider. :lol

In a perfect world, I'd say "get both" but they are expensive and they take time to learn...in the case of Sonar, a lot of time. :lol

There is a fully-functional demo (you can even save mp3s and .wav files.  You just can't save *project* files) of FL Studio on their website:
http://www.flstudio.com

A screenshot of FL Studio running on my computer.  This is an older screenshot from a couple of versions ago but it's still pretty similar.
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h141/act...oldOnGoldXP.png
(wow, this is old...back when my computer only had 1 processor core (which FL kept maxing out!) :p)

A time-limited trial of Sonar is available here:
http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/kb/kb20061101.asp


As for the system requirements of these programs; they're not high, at least not just running Sonar or FL Studio as they come in the box.  What really requires the big, beefy computers are the virtual instruments and effect plugins.  50+ instruments at 20MB+ each, with volume envelopes on each instrument updating 512 times per quarter note each, maybe a convolution reverb on the master-out....yeah, that's where you need the computer power!  Do you have a quad-core processor and 4GB of RAM yet? :lol:
Speaking of which, did I mention that while Sonar supports multicore processors, FL Studio does Not, as of yet?  my dual-core only gets to 50% usage in FL Studio before Fl says "No more!"

Oh, and fair warning: 50 instrument tracks isn't unheard of! :p  I was trying to set up an orchestral template to roughly cover most of the bases I'd need for most music projects...I ended up loading over 120 instruments before I finally ran out of RAM. :lol   ...Did I mention I have 8GB of RAM in my computer? :lol:
I still wasn't done setting up my template...from that point, I decided templates were a bad idea.  :P:


Whew...okay, I'll shut up now! :p


Mumbling

  • Administrator
  • Littlefoot
  • *
    • Posts: 8943
    • View Profile
Haha, that was interresting to read.. :p Well you sure know what you are talking about... But guess what, I like illegal software, sort of. I might download Sonar or maybe FL Studios. Then I might take my time to learn the basics of those programms, and then I might well try it out for real...? It sure does look very complicated to me for now, but I am a quick learner..

Thanks for giving me all the information, sometimes you sounded like a commercial.. xD I think I am going to like this stuff, music editing etc. I was familair to musical things on the computer before, but that wasn't really thesame... I am going to see if I can download them somewhere( full versions ) and while I am downloading them I'm going to watch some tutorials on youtube(isn't it nice..)

Thanks again for all this information hah.

By the way probably I am going to mix my voice, my brother's voice and my mums voice with the song 'when you're on your own'. Going to look if I can do that. We will use different microphones as well to see if there are any problems on the quality part. I'm glad my family works with me.

Hmm, I'll keep on letting you know how far I am... :D


orchid141

  • Ruby
  • *
    • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
    • http://youtube.com/ordinaryfres
WOW WOW WOW

iris thats really beatiful =O
you sing with so much emotion, it kinda makes me cry..
well i love it. its very nice.


Mumbling

  • Administrator
  • Littlefoot
  • *
    • Posts: 8943
    • View Profile
You hear me every day and you still like it.. weird girl.. :p

Family

A new one,, yes I was home alone  B)


orchid141

  • Ruby
  • *
    • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
    • http://youtube.com/ordinaryfres
BUHU  :nyah are you challenging moi? :lol

its not my fault that you sing so beautifully :rolleyes:


Mumbling

  • Administrator
  • Littlefoot
  • *
    • Posts: 8943
    • View Profile
Probably you are right on that. Ok ok you won. But you'd better watch The land before time ( original) RIGHT NOW or otherwise I am coming to get it back personally xD. Kidding, but I do want you to watch it soon because then you know why I like it so much.. :)