The Gang of Five
The forum will have some maintenance done in the next couple of months. We have also made a decision concerning AI art in the art section.


Please see this post for more details.

LBT videogame

JojotheIncredible

  • Chomper
  • *
    • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
RPGs involve fighting, and that is the only way to level up a character, unless you are willing to do a little programming. As for gaining new abilities, that can easily be done in an adventure game.


Malte279

  • The Circle
  • The Gang of Five
  • *
    • Posts: 15608
    • View Profile
    • http://www.ineinemlandvorunsererzeit.de.vu
Maybe MSN is a good possibiliy to start a first discussions on the first details of the game. The direct exchange might enable us to get on a lot faster to get a basic concept. Do you have an MSN identity Jojo?


JojotheIncredible

  • Chomper
  • *
    • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
Yes, it's jojogamecreator@hotmail.com


WeirdRaptor

  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 4766
    • View Profile
    • Knowhere: A Geek Culture Fan Forum
Why does everyone want Littlefoot and co. to do a ton of fighting? Look at their size! And look at the size of the sharpteeth, folks. Littlefoot and co. are not going to try to fight those. Keep in-character (that the gang wouldn't be stupid enough to try it), keep the way it is the films (Littlefoot and co. run and hide from most of their enemies, and then later, outsmart them), and I don't care if RPGs feature fighting. Having the gang fight the enemies everytime they meet them would just take the thing SO far from the premis that it'd be insulting to people who actually care about the context of the story.

Oh, and fighting is not the only way to level up a character and gain new abilities in an RPG. Just have them level up a bit after a each level, automatically, just have the points be a reward. If they did everything almost perfectly, 5 points, if they did preet good: anywhere from 3-4 points. Mediocre, 2 points, and if they're just lucky to have finished the level: 1 point.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf


JojotheIncredible

  • Chomper
  • *
    • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
Like I said, that would need some programming.


WeirdRaptor

  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 4766
    • View Profile
    • Knowhere: A Geek Culture Fan Forum
Fine, then do the extra programming, but DO NOT put in a lot of fighting, or better yet, don't put in any at all for Littlefoot and co, because it just wouldn't work.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf


action9000

  • Member+
  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 5742
    • View Profile
This is partly why I was referring to an RPG / adventure style game, as opposed to a typical RPG game on its own.

We really need to figure out a structure for this game?  What is the objective?  Will the characters gain levels over time?  If so, what benefits will these character levels have?  Obviously if we're not fighting, it wouldn't be direct attack or defensive ability.  Here are some examples of levelling benefits that I have brainstomed:

- Strength: Cera's ability to smash rocks could increase over time, allowing larger rocks to be pushed or destroyed, opening new areas or allowing her to push rocks on top of unsuspecting threats.  This pushing strength could also apply to Littlefoot and Spike.  Perhaps one scenerio could require a certain level of Combined strength for all of the characters.  If the characters' combined strength is high enough, the gang could quickly disable a large enemy (aka. pushing a large rock on top of its head) and move to one part of the game.  If their combined strength is too low, the gang may be forced to take another route to evade the enemy, which would access a different part of the game.  Such action would allow for multiple paths for the game to take, based on the player's stats when he/she reaches a certain point.

- Speed:  Petrie could develop the ability to fly faster, and the others could learn to run faster over the course of the game.  Certain events may be timed, and it may require a certain speed to get past them, allowing for an "unlock" system in the game, to open certain areas.  Also related could be stamina; the ability to travel or run for extended periods of time.  This has been known to be somewhat annoying in some games, however, so it should be used with caution.

- Courage:  Characters may gain courage from completing previous objectives.  In order for the Gang to enter a later level, they must have the courage to do so, which is obtained by clearing at least some earlier areas.

If the characters aren't levelling from doing battle (which, as previously mentioned, would be unrealistic for the Gang in most scenarios), how would characters' stats increase?  Would it be based on completing tasks and objectives?  

I can roughly picture how to program such a game in a text-only environment , in C++ (it wouldn't be overly difficult, just time-consuming), but I wouldn't even know where to start when it comes to graphics.   Using the pre-built engines, however, it may take some work to figure out how to do this.

Quote
Oh, and fighting is not the only way to level up a character and gain new abilities in an RPG. Just have them level up a bit after a each level, automatically, just have the points be a reward. If they did everything almost perfectly, 5 points, if they did preet good: anywhere from 3-4 points. Mediocre, 2 points, and if they're just lucky to have finished the level: 1 point.
Hmm, like a grading system?  It's an interesting idea, but the only thing I don't like about this is that is rewards good players and punishes poorer players.  This goes back to the old story of "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer".  If you're not especially good at the game, you need all the help you can get.  If you're a better player, you don't need the high levels that a poor player needs to get through the game.  In short, it makes the game too easy for a good player and too hard for a poorer player.  This would only work if the game had difficulty settings, where poorer players could turn down the difficulty to make getting the higher grades possible for them.  Even for one difficulty, such a system would be difficult to balance, mathematically.  I won't even discuss the amount of work and testing needed to balance multiple difficulties :lol


WeirdRaptor

  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 4766
    • View Profile
    • Knowhere: A Geek Culture Fan Forum
Well, they can level up be ding tasks, puzzles, and such correctly, and by complete the level/stage, itself, and if they do any fighting in the occasional fight, they can level up from the that. I say treat the ability to level up more as a reward for doing the required objectives, and go by my idea.

Complete a tasK; they get, say 1-3 points, depending on how well they completed it.

Complete a level/stage: they get, 1-5, depending on how well they completed it.

It takes some originality, but I seriously think we should take the levelling points away from fighting and have them to be able to do it by others means, otherwise, its just going to turn into a typical dinosaur fighting game.

Quote
We really need to figure out a structure for this game? What is the objective? Will the characters gain levels over time? If so, what benefits will these character levels have? Obviously if we're not fighting, it wouldn't be direct attack or defensive ability. Here are some examples of levelling benefits that I have brainstomed:

Structure: I would suggest a 'stage' set-up. A large level for you to explore extensively, with various objectives that you must complete in order to continue, and you can also have 'sidequests' that you can do by choice for extra points.
Objective: Well, we need to think of a story. I'd be happy to do some quick brain-storming to do it and I'll offer you some plot ideas, okay?
"Will the characters gain levels over time?" I think they should. The benefits of the these levels will improved abilities, like the ones you suggested.

Quote
If the characters aren't levelling from doing battle (which, as previously mentioned, would be unrealistic for the Gang in most scenarios), how would characters' stats increase? Would it be based on completing tasks and objectives?
I think that would be the best choice. If you complete a task or objective, youget points, and the amount of points that you get should reflect how well you completed the task. Plus, they get more points at the end of the level, and again, how many reflects how well they completed the level.

Quote
I can roughly picture how to program such a game in a text-only environment , in C++ (it wouldn't be overly difficult, just time-consuming), but I wouldn't even know where to start when it comes to graphics. Using the pre-built engines, however, it may take some work to figure out how to do this.
How would this be text-only?  
I sympathize with how much work you'll have to do for this, but if we get a game that captures the spirit of the series out of this: your work will have been well-worth it, I think.

Quote
Hmm, like a grading system? It's an interesting idea, but the only thing I don't like about this is that is rewards good players and punishes poorer players. This goes back to the old story of "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer". If you're not especially good at the game, you need all the help you can get. If you're a better player, you don't need the high levels that a poor player needs to get through the game. In short, it makes the game too easy for a good player and too hard for a poorer player. This would only work if the game had difficulty settings, where poorer players could turn down the difficulty to make getting the higher grades possible for them. Even for one difficulty, such a system would be difficult to balance, mathematically. I won't even discuss the amount of work and testing needed to balance multiple difficulties
About that. I guess I should have explained myself better. I wasn't thinking in terms of rewarding the players, individually, since the gang is  a team. I was thinking that all the players would get the same amount of points awarded depending on how well they, as a team, and how they were able to pull it together and work with one another.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf


action9000

  • Member+
  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 5742
    • View Profile
Quote
How would this be text-only?
This game that we're designing probably will have graphics.  I'm just saying that in my experience, such a game wouldn't be overly difficult to program the basic engine of.  my concerns start when adding in the other minigames that Malte suggested, and the addition of graphics.  It will be a lot of work.  I have programmed many parts of text-only game before, from scratch.

Quote
Complete a tasK; they get, say 1-3 points, depending on how well they completed it.

Complete a level/stage: they get, 1-5, depending on how well they completed it.
We'd need to program a way to define what is "good" and what is "bad".   It will depend on the scenario, but I wonder if every objective will have a "good" and "bad" way of doing it.  I suppose most will, whether it be how much time it takes, or how much of something the characters bring to their destination (if it's a gathering / carrying minigame), or whatnot.  This may work out, for the most part.

Quote
I wasn't thinking in terms of rewarding the players, individually, since the gang is a team. I was thinking that all the players would get the same amount of points awarded depending on how well they, as a team, and how they were able to pull it together and work with one another.
Ahh, so you're saying the Gang will sort of act as one character, and that they will all have the same stat increases as they complete an objective.  I also assume that there will be come tasks that will take a member of the Gang on his or her own, where they must complete the task without the help of the rest of the group.  In such a situation, I believe that only the characters that are actively taking part in the task should be rewarded.


WeirdRaptor

  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 4766
    • View Profile
    • Knowhere: A Geek Culture Fan Forum
Quote
We'd need to program a way to define what is "good" and what is "bad". It will depend on the scenario, but I wonder if every objective will have a "good" and "bad" way of doing it. I suppose most will, whether it be how much time it takes, or how much of something the characters bring to their destination (if it's a gathering / carrying minigame), or whatnot. This may work out, for the most part.
Well, after designing a level, we could figure out what the ideal amount of time for finishing the level. Plus, there's also the fact that it should be possible for the gang to die in the game, and how many times you died while trying to complete a level can also reflect how many points you get, and how many times you have to try to get a task or objective completed comes into play. More work for you, but I think it woud work.

Quote
Ahh, so you're saying the Gang will sort of act as one character, and that they will all have the same stat increases as they complete an objective. I also assume that there will be come tasks that will take a member of the Gang on his or her own, where they must complete the task without the help of the rest of the group. In such a situation, I believe that only the characters that are actively taking part in the task should be rewarded.
Exactly. Oh, and good idea for when a character has to go alone. If one of the characters has to complete a task by themselves, then it would be right for that player/character to get all the points for that task.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf


action9000

  • Member+
  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 5742
    • View Profile
My next question to everyone: How do we want this game to look?

I am picturing either an overhead-style view, similar to Earthbound
or
A Game from RPG Maker 2000.

If anyone else is envisioning a different style of graphics, let's see them :D

I was picturing this game to have a "party system", where the player could choose which character to "lead" with, out of the party available at the time.  The player could change this leader to control the character who has the skill necessary to complete each portion of the game.  

Something else I must add to this: I do not want to see the characters to be able to carry 2 tons of rocks and 500 treestars, like you would see in many RPG and Adventure games.  Remember, they can't carry very much.  When we design the inventories, keep this in mind :lol


WeirdRaptor

  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 4766
    • View Profile
    • Knowhere: A Geek Culture Fan Forum
Not "Earthbound"!

The "RPG Maker" game looks fine, though, but another option could be something like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Zelda3-lightworld.png

Frankly, I think those graphics outdo that RPG Maker game's.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf


action9000

  • Member+
  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 5742
    • View Profile
Quote
Not "Earthbound"!
I was simply referring to the perspective, not the game itself :P:
Quote
Frankly, I think those graphics outdo that RPG Maker game's.
I agree, but we need someone who can physically draw all of our graphics.  The game's graphics will only be as good as the graphic designer.  Some engines that have been mentioned also have restrictions on the resolution of the graphics, among other limitatons.  We need to check them out before making a final decision.  Unless we know enough people with C or C++ knowledge to program the game without a pre-built engine (I know I couldn't do that :lol )


WeirdRaptor

  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 4766
    • View Profile
    • Knowhere: A Geek Culture Fan Forum
Oh.

Ooh boy, as for someone to physically draw the graphics. Well, I can you tell right now that no one does it for free.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf


action9000

  • Member+
  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 5742
    • View Profile
Quote
Well, I can you tell right now that no one does it for free.
Probably a few people here on the GoF who are interested in art would be willing to, if they are interested in taking part in this project.  Malte already stated he would be interested in supplying art.

Perhaps the engine we use to design the game will include enough pre-set graphics to do some of our scenery without too much trouble.  At the very least all of our characters Must be drawn by our design team, as I highly doubt that there are LBT sprites (2d character models) lying around anywhere (if anyone can find one, let me know :p).

When designing graphics for characters, we must draw them in every frame of animation so the graphics can cycle when the character moves.  We also must draw the character in every angle that he or she may be seen in the game.

Even this is a lot of work.


JojotheIncredible

  • Chomper
  • *
    • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
I was hoping for an adventure game.

Using the Maniac Mansion style, you can switch between different party members.








As for LBT Sprites, you got two choices...
:slap
:bang


I say we drawn our own. ;)


action9000

  • Member+
  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 5742
    • View Profile
Quote
I was hoping for an adventure game.

Using the Maniac Mansion style, you can switch between different party members.
That looks reasonably promising.
Quote
I say we drawn our own. ;)
Agreed :yes


WeirdRaptor

  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 4766
    • View Profile
    • Knowhere: A Geek Culture Fan Forum
Well, the bottem of the two choices for LBT sprites isn't too bad, but yes, we should do our own (I'm not volunterring, by the way).

Jojo, think about it. An adventure wouldn't work.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf



WeirdRaptor

  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 4766
    • View Profile
    • Knowhere: A Geek Culture Fan Forum
Because the result would be a LBT-fight game, and no wants that.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf