The Gang of Five
Beyond the Mysterious Beyond => The Fridge => Topic started by: Malte279 on December 07, 2004, 05:15:39 PM
-
Hi!
Sometimes I have questions about the use of English language for my land before time fanfictions, and it would be really great for me if here I could get the answers and opinions (few of these will be "yes or no" or "false or wrong" questions) of more than one native speaker.
My first question is about the suitability of the word "tollerable" in a land before time story. "Tollerable" sounds like a word from a relatively high speech level to me and I wonder whether or not you could imagine a dinosaur to use it, or if you would prefer any other word of the same meaning.
Note that the character who uses it is a grownup dinosaur and a herd leader who may be more eloquent than the average land before time dinosaur (certainly more than the kids). The complete line he says reads:
“If not even this convinces you that they are not as tolerable as you persist to think they are, let me show you something more.”
Can you imagine a dinosaur to say this without it sounding exaggerated?
-
'Tolerable' is how it is spoken here. I would think it too highly advanced to be used in an LBT Fanfiction.
Nick
-
I haven't seen one other fanfiction of LBT that use other then English.
-Threehorn
-
I agree with Nick, tolerable is much too advanced for a LBT fanfiction. ;)
-
Do you have alternative ideas. I thought about "acceptable", but that I'm afraid is exactly the same level as "tolerble". Perhaps I need to rephrase the whole sentence in order to replace the "tolerable" part through "get along with"? However, it ought to be clear that the speaker considers it absolutely impossible to get along with / tolerate what he is talking about.
-
“If not even this convinces you that they are not as tolerable as you persist to think they are, let me show you something more.”
:blink: :blink:
I think we're going to have to go and change the entire sentence structure.
Try this:
"In addition to being unbearable company, I can show you more things they do that annoy me."
-
Or " If you are not convinced that they are annoying, here's some more proof."
Nick
-
Thank you very, very much for your suggestions! I really appreciate them. However I'm afraid I have to give away a little more of the context.
"unbearable company" and "annoying" are too weak terms in this context. For we are talking about a character who wants to convince another one to attack those which he considers intolerable. Attack by the point of horns!
-
Very well, then. Another term for intolerable would be insupportable, but that is also too advanced. " If this will not convince you of thier worthlessness, then I will provide still more proof of this fact.
Nick
-
Thanks a lot for your suggestions Nick! :)
Alas I begin to feel like Ozzy ("because you see I'm ridiculously picky" :unsure: ). The problem is that worthlessness would be something that would make the character indifferent about something or somebody. But he considers "them" so "intorlerable" that he is ready to use violence to get rid of (kill) "them".
-
In order to harm someone, you cannot feel any connection to them. If someone is "worthless' then you feel no shame about hurting them.
Nick
-
But you wouldn't feel especially urged to hurt anyone so long you have no connection to them (an adversary connection in this case). I'm sorry if I sound unnecessary complicate, but I'm really looking for a word that fits perfectly.
-
Good point. Hmmm. How about putting it bluntly, since we cant use words that are too advanced?
Nick
-
I'm horrible, but that character wouldn't call the deed by name, as I think that maybe deep inside he knows that if named that way he would get no support for it.
-
so we can't be blunt? Hmm this is tough.. So you want a word that implies doing harm, but doesn't put it bluntly?
Nick
-
It is like he justifies the harm being done because "they" are intolerable. The positive (or maybe dangerous) thing about that word is, that everyone can interpret everything into it, and it doesn't sound too evil. It's just too high a speech-level other than that this word would fit in perfect.
-
Then My guess is that You'll just have to include intolarable even though it is very advanced.
Nick
-
Again I need the assistance of a native speaker. Is there any term to describe the situation that somebody is standing in water, so deep that the character is barely able to touch the ground with the feet?
In Germany we would say for example "She could hardly stand", but my dictionaries don't say whether or not such a litteral translation is possible. So it would be really great if you could help me out with this one.
-
That sounds ok to me. :yes Can't see anything worng with that and it sounds like it's being used in the right context.
-
Why not just say, "Ducky could barely reach the bottom of the (river, lake)..."
-
That would be the easiest way, however I hope to find a very short formulation as we are not talking of somebody splashing in the water for the fun of it, but of Cera pursuited by a whole lot of... But I don't want to tell the whole story already. At all events I'm going for the short "she could hardly stand" if this works out.
-
Again I'm not sure if a term is LBT-appropriate. Can you imagine a grownup LBT character (Ducky's mother to be precise) to shout "Oh my gosh!" in a moment of utmost surprise?
I want to avoid "religious" terms like "my god", "heavens" etc. So do you think that gosh is alright?
I'm not sure if "my godness" would work out too well in the scene I'm talking about.
-
And yet another question: I came across a few alternative words to dangerous. Can you tell me if perilous and hazardous sound stronger (more extreme) or weaker than dangerous? Does perilous imply a mortal danger?
-
Not always.'Perilous' , to me, usually implies dangerous, and normally very dangerous, but not always mortally so.
Nick
-
Thanks a lot. :)
If it is a danger stronger than the "ordinary" danger it will sure do :)
I've just "brought Cera home" in the context of my story, something I had planned to do before new years eve.
So how strong or weak is hazardous?
And do you think that "my gosh!" Is okay for LBT?
-
hazardous implies it likely brings death
perilous implies it's going to be troublesome, not necessarily deadly
That's how I interpret those two.
As for "my gosh" Littlefoot says something on those lines in LBT 10 so I'd say it's fine to include. ;)
-
Perilous is IMo more dangerous than hazardous. Hazardous represents something that is dangerous, but usually you have to do something wrong for it to affect you. For example, Bleach is hazardous to my health if I drink it, but if I leave it alone, it can't harm me.
Nick
-
As you can see, not even native English speakers can agree on what words mean. :P: We just interpret them differently.
-
It depends on what context you are using the word in. Words can have many different meanings.
Nick
-
Thank you two very much! :)
I guess I'll go with the perilous then and let the "gosh" remain in place.
-
You're welcome Malte. Any time you need help I will try to do my best to help you. :)
Nick
-
"Gosh" is just a replacement word for "god" so I guess it shouldn't be used, but I can hear it being used in a fanfic. Perhaps meaning something else. I thought for sure Littlefoot said "gosh!" somewhere in the sequels.
I put the levels here.
1=Most Extreme 5=Least Extreme
1. Oh my god! (Something amazing or terrible happened!)
2. Oh my gosh! (Something great or terrible happened!)
3. Oh no! (Something bad happened!)
4. Oh dear! (Something wrong happened!)
5. Oh my! (Something inappropriate happened!)
-
Whatever you put in is fine with me Malte.
Nick
-
This is very interesting for me. Gosh is a replacement of god? I didn't know before, but there are many such replacement words in English.
Thinking about it, is "Gee" (frequently used in LBT) a replacement for the name "Jesus"?
-
Well, mostly "gosh" is substituted for "God" if you're a devout Catholic. I've never heard on any scale that "gee" is a replacement for "Jesus" (though I have been known to write Geezus :lol: ).
-
Again I have questions for the fanfiction. This time it's about a scene which involves Hyp, Nod and Mutt. I want them to sound like they do in the movie, which proves sort of a challange as this is not the kind of language that is bound to strict rules or something.
I used "Yer" as a replacement for "You". "Ye're" for "you are". In one case I wrote "ya" for "you" and in one case "cain't" instead of "can't". And in one case "ain't" for "aren't". Does that sound like them?
Also I invented a word which is meant to be a derogatory, offensive word for "threehorns". The word is "pointyheads". Does that sound okay to you?
-
Sure, that sounds fine to me.
Nick
-
I don't know about yer and cain't. Yer sounds like your. Are you trying to make them sound like they have a southern(U.S.) accent? Maybe you should listen to exactly what they are saying in the movie. I don't remember them having a southern accent. If you can somehow post a soundclip, I can help you. My copy got sold.
-
I did listen to the way they talk in the movie, but sometimes it is really difficult to figure out the differences. For example I didn't know that yer and cain't are especially associated with the American South. So should I rather stick to "can't"?
And as for the "Yer", would it make a strong difference to write "Ye" or "Ya" instead? What would you recommend?
-
If you look, I updated my above post. I can help you a lot. About "ye" or "ya", I never heard "ye" used before except in Old English and pirate talk. Use "ya" and "can't".
-
Thanks a lot for your help Jojo!
It's the kind of stuff you won't find in dictionaries, so information like "yer" and "cain't" being associated with the southern US and "ye" being just archaic or associated with pirates is really valuable for me.
I'll stick to ya and can't then.
Does the "pointyheads" sound alright to you as a derrogatory word for threehorns? I do have the sound of LBT 3 burned on a CD, but like I said, it is sometimes very difficult for me to figure out any speech patterns. So any help is really appreciated.
-
Ye was used in Middle English as well Jojo.
Nick
-
So it was used in Shakespeare's time. But what Hyp is speaking probably sounds more like the way the hated idiot from the high school who will bully around the lower grade students talks like, doesn't it?
-
Again I need the opinion of as many native English speakers as possible.
I need to know if an idiom which I'd like to use in my current LBT story is commonly known so I can use it without causing any difficulties to the readers.
If a dinosaur in my story says:
"We cannot turn tail on them!"
What do you think does it mean? What does this phrase "to turn tail on s.th. / s.o." stand for?
-
Well, 'To turn tail ' means to run away. In this case, your dinosaur is saying that isn't an option. " We can't turn tail on them", means, depending on the context, " We can't leave them like this" or " We can't just run away." I think that the first definition applies here('we can't leave them like this').
Nick
-
Hi!
Again I need the advice of the native speakers for the English in my fanfiction:
...and with another roar he raised his head for the fatal staband thrust downwards.
As you will notice we are talking of quite dramatic a moment. It is the underlined words "stab" and "thrust" I'm wondering about. A third word that had come to my mind in this context is "butt" (with the character who is stabbing, thrusting or butting being a threehorn).
I'm not sure if the word "stab" is too associated with a manmade pointed weapon to be used refering to horns. In case of the "butt" I'm not certain if the word makes clear that we are not talking of somebody just knocking somebody around with the head, but of somebody who really means to use the points of his horns to kill. Do you think that the choice of words as given above is appropriate? Or are there some totally different words coming to your mind?
Another question is about terms to describe a "tiny distance". I don't think that the dinosaurs are measuring in inches or centimeters so if I'm telling from a dinosaur's point of view I want to avoid such terms. In one case I spoke of "a horns breadth (with the character from whose point of view the story was told being another threehorn and very few dinosaurs sporting "hairs" which would permit the use of the rather human phrace "by a hair's breath"). However, are there any English words that come to your mind that describe a very small distance without being as exclusively human terms as any measures are?
-
Well, stab is associated with knives and thrust can refer to different things, inculding acclerating on a plane(the pilot used his thrust), or moving forward with a weapon(he thrust his sword at the dragon) "Butt' can mean to knocks heads or it can be a warning to stay out(butt out). As For your phrase, "By A whisker' comes to mind, but that refers to furry animals and dinosaurs didn't have whiskers. 'By the skin of your teeth' could work, after all dinosaurs had teeth. I thionk the words are apropriate in the context.
Nick
-
Thank you Nick! :)
-
No Problem.
Nick
-
Again I need the native speakers' assistance. Imagine somebody has bitten very fiercely on the own tongue, so the tongue has swollen to almost double size which makes that given character talk very thickly. Is there any good term to describe that way of speaking? I have come across a number of terms, most of which didn't seem to fit at all. So far my best choice would be "to babble". What do you say? Is that a fiting term to describe the way someone with a badly bitten and swollen tongue talks?
I have never had the fortune ( :lol: ) to have a merry chat with an Englishman or American who had bitten the own tongue, so I can only guess how it might sound. I want to immitate the way it would sound if a character with a bitten tongue is talking. Here are two examples of my guess how it might sound. Do you think that these lines sound like somebody with a bitten tongue but are still intelligible? The "translation" of what the character is really saying is in the the brackets:
"Now Topsh ish looging afder her." ("Now Tops is looking after her.")
"I dond no anyshing abaut her. I didnd shee her. If she really... She musht have gone wish Torush! Hesh ad dshe Didsh nau! Perhapsh we bedder hurry ub!" ("I don't know anything about her. I didn't see her. If she really... She must have gone with Torus! He is at the Ditch now! Perhaps we better hurry up!")
It would be really great if you could help me out with my "tongue-problems" :P: :p :x :lol:
-
Another question. There is one idiom in German which littereally translated reads: "Water is reaching up to somebody's throat" meaning that somebody is in very serious trouble. Would that idiom be understood by English readers? Or if that is to be doubted, is there any English idiom which associates water with trouble? It would offer me the chance for quite a nice pun.
-
If it's hard to understand someone, we would say they're mumbling rather than babbling....babbling means someone is continually excessively talking without any real meaning. With the sentences you gave, maybe it's just me, or maybe it's intentional but a toungue would bleed if it was bitten, not swell so I guess if it's intentional to do something different, your sentences are fine.
Ah....the water one. If somebody's in trouble, they're in hot water. ;)
Hope that helps.
-
Hi!
From painful personal experience I can assure you, that you are mistaken about the tongue just bleeding but not swelling if it is bitten on. During cramps I had during my comas I bit deep into my tongue, and I can assure you that the volume of this organ increases quite a bit if treated like that. Fortunately the tongue “repairs” itself very quickly (so the character in my story won’t have to talk that stupid for long), but it really does swell. I have some rather nasty photo material on what shape and size it can take. Regrettably I failed to try talking English in that situation ;) , so my guesses on how it might sound are based on what sounds I recall getting difficult to handle with an oversized tongue (especially t and sharp s sounds).
Thanks a lot for the word “mumbling”. For some reason I had always associated that one with indistinct talk due to the talking being very quiet, but indeed the definition provided by the Oxford dictionary qualifies it much better for what I want to mumble than the word “babble” does. Thank you Arvens!
Continuing my research after posting the message here I came across one supposed idiom which would fit just perfectly into my story. That idiom reads: “To be in deep waters” for being in trouble. Do you think that idiom will be understood? It would sound even better as the very trouble we are talking about in the story is partly caused by water, which however is not hot.
-
I'll skip the photo shoot thanks. :) I'll take your word for it.
I guess you could say one is treading water if they're in trouble, but the metaphor of one being in hot water when in trouble is easily recognizable and understandable. ;) In the end, it will be your decision, but I personally think you ought to say they're in hot water.
-
I'll skip the photo shoot thanks. :) I'll take your word for it.
I guess you could say one is treading water if they're in trouble, but the metaphor of one being in hot water when in trouble is easily recognizable and understandable. ;) In the end, it will be your decision, but I personally think you ought to say they're in hot water.
-
well, that situation can also be called ' being in deep'. Whether you're iin quicksand or water, the term 's the same.
Nick
-
I never heard "to be in deep water" before. I never understood it until you said something. Where I live, it was always "to be in deep (insert fecal matter here)" which would seem very inappropriate for a LBT fanfic. All I can say is that "to be in deep water" would be troublesome for people who never heard it before. I suggest you to explain it somewhere in the story.