I just had this "thing" tonight to look for interviews on Don Bluth. This one doesn't specifically relate to LBT (though it is mentioned) but there were some nice interesting things in here.
Warning: very long!
nterview: Don Bluth & Gary Goldman
Feature Written by: Anthony Lizarraga on July 20 2002
Since breaking away from Disney in 1979, Don Bluth and Gary Goldman have worked numerous features including The Land Before Time, An American Tail, The Secret of N.I.M.H., and the recently released Titan A.E. In this interview, they discuss their careers, the art of animation, home video, as well as a variety of other topics.
Animation on DVD: You both left Disney in 1979 to work on your own projects. At the time I believe that you felt that Disney the company had gotten away from some of the principles that Walt Disney the man had established. How successful do you think you have been in keeping those type of principles alive?
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: That's a tough question to answer without sounding arrogant. We believe that Secret of NIMH reintroduced a lot of production values and special effects that had been abandoned for some time. We also have done our best to put more "heart" in our stories. Some have succeeded and some have not. However we hope we have pushed the animation industry to new standards. The last 10 years has seen a lot of progress in animation production in both traditional and 3D.
Animation on DVD: What do you think Walt Disney would think of the current state of theatrical animation?
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: We can't really say what Walt Disney would think. However, we're guessing he would be proud that his legacy has grown with the recent renaissance in theatrical animation. The stories being told in 3D. i.e. Toy Story I and II demonstrate good story-telling with a lot of heart, pushing personalities and character development.
Animation on DVD: What do you thinking of the current state of theatrical animation?
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: We think it has gotten very expensive. Everyone is going to have to think twice about the cost of their animated films. We believe the cost has to come down to under 35 million to make a winning situation for both the filmmakers and the major studios. The cost of building the films plus the cost of promoting the films has become a giant risk. If a film costs between 70 and 125 million, and the studio spends another 50 to promote it, worldwide, the film will have to gross 300 million just to break even.
Granted sell-through video has helped recoup investment, but it is still a risk at the current costs.
Animation on DVD: Home video is definitely a big factor in what a film's final "take" is. How has the proliferation of home video affected the production of theatrical animation?
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: Good question! Have you seen the video displays in the stores? There is an enormous amount of product out there. It is a major coup to position your video so that the audience sees it on the shelf. Direct-to-video has also contaminated the waters with "knock-offs" or production of titles overseas at the same time that a major production begins. Example, Anastasia had an inexpensive video produced and released about 3 months before Fox's version hit the theatres. If the audience had been reading about and anticipating the release of Anastasia, they may just go ahead and buy the cheap video, thinking that they were getting a deal.
Animation on DVD: I think the title you are referring to is The Secret of Anastasia. I know there was a similar situation when a title called Mulan was to be released before Disney had even committed to releasing their animated features on DVD. There was a bit of confusion.
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: That's definitely understandable.
Animation on DVD: Do you consider the video release when you are actually working on the film? I know on the commentary for Titan A.E. there was a bit of talk about which colors show up best on home video.
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: Video is always a consideration, however, the theatrical release is the big show. We've always felt that we could figure out a way to get the best product into the home. There are some considerations regarding color. Red has always been a problem, as it bleeds on a TV screen. Blues can also glow. Adjustments can be made when transferring from film to tape. When working in CinemaScope, we always hope the audience will go for the letterboxed version to get the full impact of the visual. The problem is many of the viewers don't like the black space at the top and bottom of the screen. Some think there is something wrong with their TV or the tape. Pan and Scan is not fun for the audience, or us, but it is the best we can do for the broadest audience.
Animation on DVD: Luckily, DVD offers the opportunity for studios to include both a widescreen and pan-and-scan version of a film on the same disc. To me, it's disheartening to see pan-and-scan only releases. Unless it's a title that I'm really excited about or need to review, I usually don't even bother buying it.
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: We definitely prefer to have our films presented in their original aspect ratio!
Animation on DVD: The two of you have been involved with nine theatrically-released animated films. Of those nine, which one or two are you most proud of and why?
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: The Secret of NIMH was our first-born and probably, our proudest moment. However, we had similar experiences with Anastasia. We really enjoyed watching our crew grow artistically and technologically. Many of those trained to do their jobs by hand had to convert to using the computer. This took about a year for them to get comfortable. All of the films were tough to get through. An animated theatrical film is huge, both in its construction and its management. In many cases our films had to be privately financed - another big job. The production of Anastasia had particularly heart-felt moments because of the music involved. We’ll have great memories forever of our experiences on these two pictures.
Animation on DVD: Are there any of them that you look at and think "I really shouldn't have done that"?
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: Of course. As you make the film, you are on a tight schedule and budget. Decisions must be made that you sometimes regret. We try not to look back, but some of these decisions can haunt you. We'd prefer not to discuss which films those involve, but A Troll in Central Park had several challenges, including its very youthful target audience.
Animation on DVD: Several of your films have spawned sequels. Do you have any comments about these sequels? Do you feel they were worthwhile or could that money and energy been better spent somewhere else?
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: It's interesting that so many sequels are being made. From our perspective, it is sad. We’ve avoided getting involved with sequels. Those sequels from Amblin/Universal have turned into a huge franchise. The sequels from MGM/UA, All Dogs Go To Heaven and The Secret of NIMH, were not as lucky. Perhaps it would have been money better spent on a re-release of each of the original films. NIMH has only had one theatrical release, back in 1982. We attempted to convince MGM/UA to re-release it back in 1989. They did not have a great deal of interest in animation at that time. All Dogs had fierce competition from The Little Mermaid at its original release in 1989. It could have been a candidate for a re-release after 1996. NIMH has continued popularity and many people would love to see it on the big screen again.Animation on DVD: Do you own a DVD player?
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: Yes. Why? Obviously DVD gives us a much better home presentation and plenty of room for additional information, director's quotes, outtakes, etc.
Animation on DVD: Your film, Titan A.E., was recently released on DVD as a Special Edition. What benefits do you think the DVD format offers you as a filmmaker?
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: As a filmmaker, we are not sure. As a communicator, it allows the filmmaker to give the audience more information. It is good, especially for film aficionados, people who are really interested in what goes on behind the scenes and how we achieve certain special effects and specific difficult shots. It also allows us to express our thoughts on what the film meant to us – just in case the audience didn’t get it. This happens when we don’t do a good job.
Animation on DVD: Well, I know I really appreciate the clarity that you get on a well done DVD. How involved are you with the home video releases of the films that you have worked on? At what point do you usually get involved?
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: We are very involved especially with the transfer of the film to tape process. Our interest is in matching the sound and the visual compatibility to the original film. We do have a chance to improve the color, however, this is only for us, as each home monitor will display the film differently. We have no control over that. Regarding its marketing, we have been very involved with many of our films, however, Titan’s release on video/DVD, Fox did not include us in the marketing. Both the theatrical and the video release seemed to have limited marketing, which will obviously limit the sales. Awareness is what it is all about. The more people that are aware of your film, the better the chance of its success.
Animation on DVD: There are several of your films (two of which were pretty successful) that haven't yet been released on DVD. Do you know of any plans to release these films on DVD in the future? [Editor's Note: All Dogs Go To Heaven was announced for release shortly after this interview was conducted.]
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: Good question. The answer is no. We would hope that those projects would end up on DVD, especially for those that are switching from tape to DVD with their collections. An American Tail is one we would hope would be up for a re-release. It has been 14 years since its original release. The cycle for re-release of an animated family film has been every 7 years. None of our films have been re-released.
Animation on DVD: How do you feel about the practice of releasing theatrical animated films such as yours in a pan-and-scan only version? I know I was very disappointed in The Secret of N.I.M.H. being released in this format.
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: Well, the problem seems to be that the general audience does not want to see any black areas on the top and bottom of their screen. The only solution is to fill the screen. When you do this, you cut off the extreme left and right side of the image even with a standard 1:85 set-up. It is worse with CinemaScope (you’ll cut off almost 1/3 of the visual). You have to pan-and-scan the remaining image for the audience to get optimum viewing of what the characters are doing. This becomes a real problem when the camera is moving at the same time as we are trying to pan the video to keep up. It can cause strobing and many times, destroy the suspension of disbelief, pulling the audience completely out of the fantasy. The NIMH video was a particular disappointment because the domestic video transfer was done without us present. Not only was the pan-and-scan done with no direction, they worked very hard to make Mrs. Brisby the same color throughout the film. She had 47 different color model lists customizing her for each lighting situation. Warner Brothers did the foreign (PAL) version and we were very involved with the color transfer and the choices for the pan-and-scan. This was much more satisfying. If the audience would accept it, the best solution is to present all films with some cut-off, top and bottom, to give the entire framing of the film as it was intended.
Animation on DVD: Are there currently any plans to re-release any of your films that were originally released as movie only pan-and-scan editions? Again, I think The Secret of N.I.M.H. is definitely deserving of the deluxe treatment.
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: We agree. The Secret of NIMH is really over due and we believe it would be a major success as a theatrical re-release. This would involve removing it as a video/DVD release for a time. But the theatrical release would really reenergize the video market for the film. Disney, so far has been the most successful with re-releases of animated films, even films that were not successful on their original release (i.e., Sleeping Beauty and Bambi). They, MGM/UA, could actually go back into their licensing deals and put product back into the stores. This would maximize awareness and the possibility of a successful re-release. They would have to get promotional tie-in partners to really push the awareness element. An American Tail is another one that should have been re-released in the mid 90’s. This movie introduced promotional tie-in partners with McDonalds and Sears. That movie has a lot of heart and is perfect for the whole family.
Animation on DVD: Were you involved with the Titan A.E. DVD beyond doing the commentary track?
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: Yes. The video transfer was very important to us. Gary worked with Carmen Oliver, the head of our color model department. She was acutely aware of color and was able to push it for the home video and DVD. We had no involvement with the marketing.
Animation on DVD: Was there a reason why there weren't any production sketches or storyboards included on the disc? I know there was a long development process on this film before you two were even involved. It would have been nice to have seen some of the work that was done before you got involved as well.
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: Good question. There was a ton of pre-production art, a lot of which was not used in the final product. The DVD would have been a great place to show it and talk about some of the artists that were involved in pre-production. We’re sure the artists were disappointed as well. There were a lot of twists and turns in the production of that film both in the 18 months of pre-production and our 19-month production schedule. We actually produced over 15 minutes of animation, which is not in the final product. This is phenomenal when you consider a normal production schedule is around 23 or 24 months. Obviously we were working 6 and 7 days a week, throughout the process. However, we did not have much to do with the production with the DVD. That was done at Fox in Los Angeles.
Animation on DVD: Would you like to discuss some of the pro's and con's of working with CGI on Titan A.E.?
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: Sure. CGI is an exciting approach to animation allowing us to really push reality. Some of the software improvements near the end of the project allowed us to put some very handsome space scapes together. Many of which we re-did in the last 2 months of production. We had a great CGI crew who loved the challenges we presented to them. Even working long distance with Blue Sky, in New York, for the creation of the New Planet, and the crew in Los Angeles that did a lot of the ice-crystal elements, was made easy by the latest technology available. The ice-crystals were tricky because it was a combination of work done in Phoenix and work done by David Dozoretz and his crew in Los Angeles, Reality Check Studios. Everyone really came through with the goods. It isn’t much different than working with a traditional animation crew; however, you are constantly pulling them back because they are trying to make it as real as possible. At the same time we are trying to make it match with the traditional animation. This means flattening out the 3D, getting rid of some of the lights and highlights. They did this very well in Iron Giant. It is always a battle, but it is getting better and better.
Animation on DVD: I know what you are saying about the CG work in Iron Giant. If you didn't know about it being a CG character, you wouldn't have ever noticed it. Do you feel like you will ever work on a completely CGI film? I believe I heard someone say on the Titan A.E. disc that that film is 98% CGI.
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: Sure, it would be easy to move over to CGI. However, we are dedicated to traditional animation and maintaining its integrity. We are sure, if the opportunity provided itself, we would jump at the chance. We would probably pull some of our traditional animators into the mix. The understanding of traditional animation is the key to delivering good 3D animation. We think John Lasseter and his crew, at PIXAR, has been very successful because of his understanding of traditional animation and the development of characters with interesting personalities. Titan did have an enormous amount of CGI animation. Somewhere around 87% of the film had some form of CGI elements, most of which was combined with traditional animation, i.e., the opening with animating clouds, dust, and vehicles are all CGI, combined with hand-painted backgrounds and traditional animation. The blowing up of the earth is completely CGI.
Animation on DVD: Could you discuss the test screening process and what kind of changes have been made to some of your films following test screenings?
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: Test screenings have been part of the process for sometime. It didn't start with us until we moved back to the states. Our films had been tested, however, we received notes, and attempted to make corrections from those notes. At Fox, they included us in the testing process. We sat right in the audience, as did our composer, Graeme Revel and our music supervisor, Glenn Ballard, the sound designer, Chris Boyes, our in-house editors, Mark Server and Fiona Trayler, and the Fox executives from Los Angeles. We actually sat through open discussion, listening to the audience members criticize and discuss the pro’s and con’s of the movie. From these discussions, the studio would try to decipher what would best satisfy the majority of the audience. It is an interesting process. It is like making a movie with a huge committee, not necessarily the director's vision. At the same time, it is a process that may help ensure some success with a film. If you are testing in Los Angeles, it is an audience that looks forward to looking at un-released films and criticizing them. You could say that the LA audience is a jaded audience. In the past, we have tested films in Seattle, Denver, and other movie cities (cities that do well for the overall box office). This seems to be a less biased test market but can be more expensive if you're hauling the filmmakers and executives to these distant locations. The Secret of NIMH did not have any changes from the test market and neither did American Tail. Land Before Time had narration added. The most severe changes occurred in Anastasia and Titan A.E. Not a fun process. Especially when you are driving for a deadline.
Animation on DVD: I know that Don is usually very involved and hands-on in his films often doing all the character designs and other work. Was that kind of hands-on involvement more difficult while working on Titan A.E. since there was so much CGI work?
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: Don was still very involved with character design and final approvals of the CGI designs. There was very good cooperation between the CGI department, the production designer, Phil Cruden, the art director, Ken Sleven, and ourselves. We did not find it difficult. The greatest difficulty was getting executive approval from Los Angeles.
Animation on DVD: Just for fun, what is the first word that comes to mind when these movies are mentioned?
Fox and the Hound – "Mildly satisfying". We attended a Sunday afternoon screening of the film at the Academy of Arts and Sciences. We saw parents dozing and children climbing over the chairs, so obviously it wasn’t holding their attention.
Titan A.E. – "Space Opera". The term that Roger Ebert applied to the film. We thought it was a nice compliment to the film.
The Iron Giant – "Frustrating". The film was great; everyone loved it. Unfortunately Warner Brothers did a very poor job of marketing. Perhaps it wasn’t targeted properly. We thought the audience was older maybe between 18 and 30. The film had a lot of heart.
American Pop – "Hard". Very urban; Not a soft film. Not necessarily for the whole family.
Thumbelina – "Fantasy". Fairly accurate to Hans Christian Anderson's original fairy tale.
Rover Dangerfield – "Disappointing" The one-liners from Rodney were funny but the dramatic structure was weak. Our studio in Dublin did a lot of subcontract work on the post color.
Rock & Rule – "Interesting". This was being produced by Nelvana in Toronto at the same time we were producing the Secret of NIMH. It had some great layouts.
Secret of NIMH – "Magic". This was a special period in our career.
The Prince of Egypt – "Epic". Really well done with some fantastic special effects.
Lord of the Rings – "Complex". Too many characters (in the book too).
Animation on DVD: Which voice actor have you most enjoyed working with?
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: Probably Dom DeLuise. He is very inventive and goes right for the character. He has been a favorite of our fans as well. As you may know, he has done several voices for us. He was Jeremy the Crow in Secret of NIMH, he was the cat, Tiger, in An American Tail, Itchy, in All Dogs Go to Heaven and Stanley the troll in A Troll in Central Park.
Animation on DVD: If there was one person from the non-animation world that you would like to work with, who would it be?
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: Gary: Robert Redford. He is very sensitive to the human experience. The films he has acted in and directed have depicted this quality.
Don: Let’s see I would choose Kevin Spacey for his uncanny ability to find the character. Cathy Bates for her sensibility in capturing a realistic personality. And finally, I would love to work with Nora Ephron, the writer of Sleepless in Seattle, You’ve got Mail, etc. She has a great sense of dramatic structure and comedy.
Animation on DVD: What are your plans for the future?
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: If we told you, we’d have to kill you. We are working on the script for a theatrical version of Dragon's Lair. There are other irons in the fire, but we can’t discuss them at this time.Animation on DVD: Do you have any plans for retirement?
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: Not at this time. There are still creative juices flowing.
Animation on DVD: Is there anything else you would like to add?
Don Bluth & Gary Goldman: Not really. We'd like to invite all of your readers to visit our currently in-development web site,
www.donbluth.com.
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Don Bluth & Gary Goldman illustration by Marc Baker
Interview- copyrighted 2000
www.animationondvd.com - copyrighted 2002 DVDtoons.com
You know, if the cycle of a re-release of an animated film is every 7 years, LBT would be eligible in 2009.
