Apple vs. Microsoft

[LBTLover1]

Okay, so I am getting a new computer and was wondering which would be more useful.  I've been getting feedback that Apple stinks because it lags or Microsoft has a thousand viruses so it's bad, etc.  I just want some pro's and con's for them.  Like which would be better in the following:

Video Editing
Gaming (like extreme gaming)
Creating servers
Photo Editing
Video/Music Playback
Website Creating

Thanks in advance.

[DarkHououmon]

Any particular reason?

Edit: Oh whoops, I missed the first part of your post. I apologize. *adjusts post*

[LBTLover1]

I want to make sure I get my money's worth.  Also, my computer is really old now (with 512 mb of ram and intel pentium).  I would really like an upgrade.  So I heard both computer and wanted to buy an Apple right away, but came with a few issues.  I then changed my opinion to Microsoft, but found problems with that.  I just want pro's and con's straight out so I can make the right choice.

[DarkHououmon]

I don't know enough about Macs to tell you, though Windows would probably be the better choice since it's not as pricey in comparison.

A third option is available and that's Linux. Though you should do your research first to make sure everything's compatible, but there's perks of Linux that may make all that work worth it (plus you can always just get help if you need it).

Linux doesn't slow down as easily, almost all the software of Linux is free, it's more secure and almost never gets viruses (even creating a Linux virus is hard), and there are free alternatives to many Windows programs. Even some Windows programs, like Firefox, have native Linux counterparts. Oh and it updates more frequently, so any potential security holes are plugged.

It's up to you what you want to get. I'm just mentioning Linux because I can't do a full comparison of Macs to Windows since I haven't used a Mac, and it gives you a third option to consider.

But of the two, Mac or Windows, I'd say Windows because Macs, from what I heard, are overpriced.

[Mumbling]

About viruses and Apple products.

They are not invulnerable to viruses, they barely have any better protection than Microsoft computers. The only difference is that about 90% of the population (that's my guess) uses a PC and not a Mac, which is why virus creaters target the PC (bigger group). There simply are fewer viruses for MAC created, and therefore they 'get' less viruses.

But to be honest, I've lived without a virus scanner ever since I got this computer 5 years ago, and I never had issues with a single virus. (I check whether I got a virus every so many months with a virus scanner) And yes, this is a PC. Just don't download stupid things (For example: porn, full-length movies of a couple of kilobytes etc.) and you won't get any viruses most likely anyway.

I don't know which one is better for any of those things since I do not own an Apple computer, and I'm rather neutral on the subject. I just wanted that to be cleared up.

Except for gaming. I'd say Windows on that matter since more games are available to windows than macs

[Petrie85]

Ask The Land Before Time Lover maybe he would know since he works with computer for a living.

[Petrie]

Biggest difference: price.  You pay a premium for Apple when you can get the same or better for much less money.

If you've lived in a Windows world, you may as well stay there unless you wish to relearn programs to just go around on a computer.  Also, if you typed up lots of stuff and rely heavily on Microsoft Office, the alternatives out there that supposedly can handle Microsoft's office files do not always display these items correctly.  There's a reason why I would never even consider moving to Macs or Linux....all my teaching stuff and files uses Microsoft Word and Adobe PDF.

[DarkHououmon]

But isn't Adobe part of Apple or at least on Macs? Last I checked, Adobe products were always available on Macs. And Microsoft Office does come available on Macs as well.

[landbeforetimelover]

DO NOT GET AN APPLE!

I'll let you in on the dirty little secrets of Apple right now.  There's no "evidence" of what I'm saying.  Only my experience as a computer repair technician.  I see 10+ computers per day so I know what I'm talking about.  Let's begin.  Oh but before we do, know that if any apple fanboys are reading this, they're going to be offended.  Sorry about this, but these are just my observations.  Let's get this over with.

Let's go back to 2003 and before.  Apple made the best computers (reliability wise) in the world.  So few viruses you could count them on one hand.  Hardware that was 10 years ahead of it's time with reliability that could (and does!) last decades.  A software that was limited but great for people that didn't do much.  But all that changed in 2004.  In 2004 they started signing contracts with third party companies in Taiwan and other obscure places in the world to lower their costs.  The results were disastrous.  The first victim was the all in one Imac G5.  It had capacitors made in Taiwan that blew in 12-18 months.  Now capacitors are little voltage regulators on a motherboard that help everything on the motherboard to function.  When they blow, you'll get strange problems such as video, hard drive, ram, and other severe problems.  Most of the time the computer just wouldn't even turn on.  Or would turn on then turn off automatically after a few minutes/hours.

Apple's response to this was to issue an extended service plan for a total of six months and not tell anyone about it.  In effect, they did absolutely nothing about it.  They just did what needed to be done so they couldn't be sued.  Then came the Intel based Imacs a few years later.  SAME PROBLEM!  Even if you buy a brand new mac today it will have this problem.  APPLE DOESN'T CARE!  There's a reason they charge you $800+ for a three year warranty on a mac.  You're going to need it.  Fuck.  For the warranty on a mac, I can build a top of the line gaming rig.  Just for the warranty!

There's only one way to fix these capacitor problems.  Replace the capacitors on the motherboard, which requires a board-level repair which very few technicians do today.  If you replace the motherboard for $1,000+ it will just have the exact same problem and go out again.  Let's go with the Macbooks.  The early ones starting in 2006.  They all had battery problems where the battery wouldn't charge.  It had something to do with the port replicator on the motherboard.  If you replaced the battery it wouldn't fix the problem.  Apple did nothing to fix this problem and the macbooks of today are still affected.

Now back in 2004 Apple was really hurting.  They were losing business like crazy because their main target market were people that bought their computers for their reliability.  So they had two choices.  They could either make decent computers again and try to repair their image or change their entire business model.  Unfortunately they chose to change their business model.  Instead of advertising their computers as reliable, they decided to go after people that were really susceptible to marketing.  In other words, people that could easily be "brainwashed" into buying their products.  It's 100% true.  I see it all the time.  Let me give you a scenario.

Just two months ago some guy brought in a practically brand new Macbook Pro.  It was 14 months old and had a bad motherboard.  Now this was a $2,500 computer!  I told the guy it would cost $1,100 including parts and labor to fix the unit and to my surprise, he said yes.  So I did.  When he came to pick it up I asked him if he was glad he bought a mac.  And he said I quote "Oh yeah.  It lasted a year.  I can't ask for more than that!"  What.  The.  Fuck.  $3,600 a year for a computer.  That's a good deal!  These people are so far into the vortex of doom there's no hope for them.  Ignore apple fanboys like that.  They seem to have lost their minds.  This is not an uncommon situation that goes on in my shop.

Unfortunately as a technician I have to have a mac in order to work on some mac problems.  If I wasn't a technician I wouldn't have one.  I barely use the thing and I've done more work on my Imac in the past 6 months than I've done on my custom built office master computer in 5 years.

Now what should you buy?  It's simple really.  Get a desktop.  $50 is the max you'll EVER pay for a part.....even a motherboard!  Unlike laptops which can cost up to 10x more to repair, desktops are really affordable.  The going rate for replace in a motherboard in a laptop is $400 - $450.  Motherboards for desktops are about $45 - $50.  Another thing about laptops.  They're absolute crap.  85% of my business comes from people with laptops that are less than 6 months old.  85%!  You know why that is?  They're just made like crap nowadays.  Tell you what.  Go head on over to Dell.com and try to customize a desktop.  They try to throw a 3 year warranty in your face for $99.  Now go try to customize a laptop.  They don't even OFFER an extended warranty for a laptop!  Why?  Because they know they're made like crap and will blow up way before even the 1 year warranty.

Now let's talk about warranties here.  Nowadays, laptops come with a 3 month warranty.  I know, I know, it says 1 year on the box.  Well I'm here to tell you, IT'S A LIE!  If you get the computer home and manage to find the hidden warranty booklet stuffed between the cardboard and actually READ it, it reads something like this:

Limited *1 Year Warranty

See that little (*)?  That's the clincher.  Now let's get to the bottom of the page here.

*Turn to page 17 for more details

On page 17:

Limited 90 Day Warranty on the Following components:

Motherboard
Screen
All Plastics
Screen Hinges
Hard Drive
Optical Drive
Card Reader
WiFi Adapter
Battery
Keyboard
Mouse
Software

So in other words, the cord is warrantied for a year.  If anything else goes after 90 days, you're just fucked.  Now the number of things covered under the 90 day warranty varies for every manufacturer, but they all tried releasing computers that said they had a 90 day warranty on the box and no one bought them.  So they decided to do it sneakily like this.

If you don't want to have to deal with hundreds of dollars in repair bills starting in 91 days after the purchase of a computer, you have to either buy a desktop or get a custom built desktop.  There really aren't any other choices nowadays.  I recommend just going and buying the cheapest piece of crap Dell or HP desktop there is.  Yeah it will blow up in a year, but since it's a desktop it's not the end of the world.  As I said, $50 is the max you'll ever pay for a part.  If a shop charges more than that, they're ripping you off.

I have 4 laptops sitting in my shop right now with blown motherboards that are going to cost $400+ apiece to fix.  One is 2 months old, another is 4 and the other is 5 and I've got another one I just found that I think is 4.  DO NOT GET A LAPTOP!

These large corporations like Dell, HP, etc. would love everyone to switch to a laptop.  Why?  It's simple really.  Before laptops, people were just like the OP and would keep their computers for 8+ years before replacing them.  Now people have to replace their computers every 6 months or so, which could potentially increase these corporation's profits by 1,600%!

Oh, and I'm sure someone's going to come here and say "well I have a laptop right now.  It's 5 years old and I haven't had a problem."  Well they just started making laptops crap like this about 11 months ago so that doesn't surprise me.

One thing to remember is laptops were never meant to REPLACE desktops!  Just like a pocket TV was never meant to replace a big screen TV.  Laptops are meant to be used EXCLUSIVELY on the road.  They are MOBILE computers!  Nothing more, nothing less.  And way too many people have been suckered into using these underpowered devices that are totally unsuited for their needs.  

It didn't used to matter too much.  Whether you bought a desktop or a laptop, you'd at least get a few years out of whatever you bought.  it's not like that anymore.  Trust me, I wish it was.  People used to love me.  They'd bring me their computers and I'd fix them up for almost nothing and they'd be VERY HAPPY.  Now at least one person cries in my shop every day because their 4 month old laptop is now an expensive paper weight.  My job is becoming very depressing.

This is where a laptop is suitable.  Truck drivers, police officers, and other professionals that need to do their work exclusively on the road need laptops.  If you're not one of these people you shouldn't own one.  It's as simple as that.  Another scenario would be if you worked between two offices on a constant basis.  Let's ay you start work at 9am and need to move to office B across town at 1pm.  You'd transfer your work from your office desktop onto your laptop and continue your work in the taxi on the way over to office B.  Then when you got to your destination you'd transfer your work back to a REAL computer (a desktop) and continue working.  These sorts of things are what laptops are for.  Not as a replacement to your desktop.

EDIT:  Typo

[landbeforetimelover]

My post was getting a bit long so I decided to put this information in a new one.  Here are the 4 laptops I'm talking about:



Now these are VERY nice laptops!  You can't tell from the crappy picture I took, but it's pitch black outside and I had to rely exclusively on my flash to take the picture.  We'll go over them one by one starting from the left and going over to the right.

Laptop ID:  #1 (furthest to the left)
Age:  4 Months
Brand:  Gateway
Original Cost:  $450
Problem:  Bad Motherboard
Cost to Fix:  $400
Under Warranty?:  No

Laptop ID:  #2
Age:  5 Months
Brand:  Gateway
Original Cost:  $950
Problem:  Bad Motherboard
Cost to Fix:  $450
Under Warranty?:  No

Laptop ID:  #3
Age:  4 Months (I think)
Brand:  Dell
Original Cost:  $600
Problem:  Bad Motherboard
Cost to Fix:  $450
Under Warranty?:  No

Laptop ID:  #4 (Furthest to the Right)
Age:  2 Months
Brand:  Lenovo
Original Cost:  $450
Problem:  Bad Motherboard
Cost to Fix:  $400
Under Warranty?:  Yes

As you can see, this is a very bad and recurring problem.  See me in 2 days and I'll have a few more practically brand new laptops with bad motherboards I can show you.










As I said, sorry for the low quality of the images.  On top of everything they were taken in my storage room.  I don't bring clients in there so it's an absolute mess.

I should mention the three laptops in the background of the first picture range from 3-6 years old and are in 100% PERFECT condition.  Not even a single problem!  They were all just slow and virus infected when I got them and I fixed them all up and they're all really nice and fast now.

Laptops weren't always this crappy in quality.  And as you can see, it doesn't matter what brand you buy.  Lenovo is by far the best laptop, but I still have a 2 month old one in here for a motherboard problem.  None of these computers will even turn on.  They're 100% useless until they get fixed.  PLEASE DO NOT GET A LAPTOP!!!!!!!!!!!!  You'll regret it.

I used to own a laptop for when I went on site to a business to fix their computers.  But it cost me so much money to maintain I just said screw it and I go with a remote access server now.  It costs less money for a technician to maintain a server than it does for him to maintain a laptop.  That's pretty frickin' bad!

[Pterano]

I agree with you about the older Apple products, landbeforetimelover. My primary desktop is STILL an iMac G4 from 2003 It's old as crap now but still works as good as the day I got it, and does everything I need it to.

I DO however also like my Macbook Pro, from 2007. It's pushing five years, and the only issue I've EVER had with it turned out to be a manufacturer's defect, which they fixed free of charge, despite the laptop being three years old at that point. I've certainly gotten my money's worth out of it, and it's still going. I dunno about the current generation of Macbook Pros, but the ones from 2007 are actually pretty good, durable, and long lasting, at least in my experience. XD

[landbeforetimelover]

^That's my point.  These "manufacturer defects" exist in ALL apple computers because they weren't made properly.  Some people are lucky enough to get in during a window like you were and get it fixed for free, but most people are just shit out of luck.  Your Macbook was made like crap and that's why it had the problem.  If I pay three times more for a computer, I expect it to be at least three times better quality.  Unfortunately that's not what macs are.

And Apple has gotten a lot worse when it comes to repairing their products and taking care of their customers since 2010.  If you're under warranty or Apple Care there's no problem, but most of the time you're not and you end up getting screwed.

And as for "getting your money out of it" 5 years is great, but not for spending thousands of dollars.  A $300 PC should last 5 years.  They used to.  But not anymore unfortunately.  Like I said, there's a reason Apple charges $800+ for a warranty on your mac.

[LBTFan13]

Video Editing : It really depends on which program you want to use. Both Macs and PC's have a plethora of programs to use for video editing, and all of them work very well. Most professional editors tend to go with Macs however and use Final Cut Pro for video editing. I will say, from personal experience, that iMovie is a much better starter video editing software than Windows Movie Maker. Again, it's really comes down to which program you want to use.

Gaming (like extreme gaming) : If you are looking for gaming purposes, stay away from Macs. PC's have much greater support for gaming. While there are Mac ports for certain games, gaming companies will always release on Windows first before Mac.

Creating servers : Don't really have much experience with creating servers, so I can't really be of help here.

Photo Editing : Like video editing, most professional editors will lean towards Macs. The best tool for photo editing is normally Photoshop, and both Macs and PC's are able to use the program. From what I've heard, the interface for Photoshop on Mac is easier, but that's only what others have told me.

Video/Music Playback : It really doesn't matter for this one. Both allow the use of Itunes, which is really the easiest and best way to play/store music.

Website Creating : Again, not really much experience here, so again I can't really be of much help.

If you are on a tight budget, forget about Macs because you will need serious coin to be able to afford one. If you are looking for just a simple computer to satisfy basic needs, then a PC would be the way to go. If you are looking for high end editing purposes, a Mac would be the best example.

[Petrie]

For a minute there I thought that was a Dell XPS in your picture....that's what I have.  Its approximately one year old and I haven't had a single problem with it.  I think people abuse their laptops and that's partially why they break.  Your photos show fingerprints everywhere and these things look dirty!  Take care of your stuff and it lasts...treat it like crap and expect the worst.  My last Dell laptop lasted five years with no problems (2006-2011).  I don't play games on them...that right there could be a big reason why I've never had problems....I'm not cooking it alive in its case.  I use a laptop because I go back and forth between my apartment and my parents on weekends, and need it for lesson planning...can't pull that off with a desktop.

[LBTLover1]

@LBTFan13 I am not really on a strict budget ($1500 dollars at max)  However, by what you presented to me, it seems that Windows is the way to go.

@landbeforetimelover So you're saying the best to go is by getting a desktop more than a mobile computer.  Gotcha.

I was thinking of going for an Alienware, but I found out how expensive they were (2100 bucks for a desktop...gee wiz.)  I probably would buy it.  Here are the specifications...

IntelÆ Coreô i7-3930K (Six Core, 12MB Cache) Overclocked up to 3.9Ghz
16GB4 Q DDR3 SDRAM at 1600Mhz - 4 DIMMS
1000GB2 Solid State Drive SATA hard drive
24X Dual-Layer Burner (DVD±RW) (Standard)
1.25GB GDDR5 NVIDIAÆ GeForceÆ GTX 560 Ti
Internal High-Definition 7.1 Performance Audio with Waves MAXX Audio Software (Standard)

MicroATX Motherboard, Mid-Tower Chassis

Which leads me to another question...what is the difference between solid state and a regular hard drive?

[DarkHououmon]

From what I learned, a non-solid state hard drive has moving parts, using a device to help write data to the disc. It can be written over endless times I believe. A solid state has no moving parts and thus has limited writes to it. But the advantage is that they're more durable. A power outage could cause a head crash on a normal hard drive, but not on a solid state.

[LBTLover1]

So, I'm guessing the best type to get would be solid state.  Alright...I'll consider the computer that I mentioned until I find a more better one.

[landbeforetimelover]

@ Petrie:  They're so nasty (mostly) because of me.  When you're taking apart every single component, they get full of finger prints and nasty stuff.  Most of the laptops I get aren't very dirty at all.  Also things look a LOT worse in a picture than they do in real life.  If I were you, I'd keep an eye on that laptop of yours.  You bought it at a very precarious time.  I've seen bad boards from Dells ranging from $300 all the way to the top of the line XPS series that are $1,200+.  It doesn't matter how much you spend.  The quality just isn't there nowadays sadly.  If I were you I'd just get two desktops.  It would be cheaper if laptops continue to go this bottom of the barrel quality route.  It really is that bad.  One thing you should keep in mind is that no matter how bad a problem is, there will still be a few people that aren't affected.  Let's just hope you're one of the minority.  But even if you do end up dodging the bullet this time around, please talk to me before purchasing another computer.

@ LBTLover1:  I wouldn't go solid state if I were you.  The price is just way too high.  And there's another thing you should be concerned about.  The parts you get from an OEM manufacturer (i.e. Dell, HP, Gateway, etc.) are TOTALLY different than what you can buy directly from the manufacturers of the parts.  For example, if you buy a Seagate in an actual box, it has a 5 year warranty.  But the ones in Dells are absolute garbage.  That's because Dell signs contracts with the company and gets the drives for mere pennies.  Solid state drives should last 10+ years if you don't do much with your computer.  Yet I've seen quite a few dead or dying ones recently in computers like netbooks that aren't really used for anything but surfing the net!  

Just two days ago someone brought in a 2 year old HP netbook with an SSD that was so slow, it took like 5 full minutes to boot.....on a clean install!  That thing should have booted up in about 20 seconds.  The SSD showed signs of 10 years of intensive wear, which this old guy couldn't have done.  The only logical explanation is that it was made like crap.

This is what you need to do.  Buy a brand new desktop then replace the hard drive ASAP.  Get a Seagate and make sure it has a 5 year warranty.  Then place the garbage original Hitachi or Western Digital hard drive on eBay.  It won't cost you much if you do this.  Go with a 1.5TB absolute max but I'd recommend sticking with 1TB or under for the sake of reliability.  

This is why solid state drives aren't worth it.  For the same price as a (good) 64GB SSD you can get two 1TB hard drives (once the price comes down again).  With the insane price hike you can only get one 1TB drive.  But 1TB = 1,024GB!  Definitely worth it to wait till SSD's get higher in capacity and lower in price.  Let me put it this way.  I'm a total computer geek that works with computers for a living and I don't even own one.  If you want a good alternative, get a 10,000rpm hard drive.  They're actually faster than SSD's for most tasks.  But they do come with a hefty price tag unfortunately.  I'd recommend this drive:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16822148512

Remember you'll have the original drive you should be able to get about $120 for to help this cost.  Ideally you'd get the 400GB model, but that's $375 and probably out of your price range.  Please stick with a Seagate or Samsung at all costs.  The Western Digital 10k rpm drives are cheaper, but they're cheaper for a reason.

[landbeforetimelover]

Sorry for the double post, but there's gotta be some page breaks here in these walls of text I keep making.  Jeesh!

Anyway if I were you I'd either build your own or have someone else build it for you.  That way you can go with a full sized ATX motherboard and case.  The full sized ATX case is only a few inches taller than the standard mATX you'll find in Dells and such and there's so much more room for expandability!  On a standard mATX motherboard there's usually only 2 slots for ram and maybe 1 or 2 PCI card slots for expansion cards.  Not exactly great.  On full sized ATX cases there are 4-6 slots for ram (depending on whether you go dual or triple channel), and at LEAST 2 PCI card slots (but usually 3 or 4).  For the extra 2" taller it is, it's definitely worth it to go with a full sized ATX motherboard.

The Alienware you pointed out does have a lot on the board for it being a mATX form factor, which is bad.  Everything's more scrunched up and therefore much more likely to break.  Building your own or paying someone to build one for you has great advantages.  You can customize EVERY SINGLE PART inside it without restrictions.

I could build you an absolutely AMAZING rig for $700.  How does a quad core 3.5Ghz AMD Phenom processor with 8GB of DDR3 1600Mhz memory and a 1TB hard drive sound?  It's certainly no match for the Alienware you pointed out, but the quality of the parts would be better, it costs a LOT less, and you'd have to do some pretty amazing shit to even come close to maxing this rig out, let alone the Alienware.  I think the Alienware is a waste of money for 99.999999% of the population.  Even I couldn't use that much power.

[DarkHououmon]

To be honest, I seriously doubt Macs are as bad as you make them out to be, Landbeforetimelover. Just because you may have had problems with them doesn't mean everyone else who uses them have the same issues. I've known people who use Macs and they never once complained about having to fix it so often. And no it's not because they're lucky; I never heard of anyone having functional or performance issues with Macs.

If people want to use Macs, that's their choice. Just because you hate them doesn't mean that no one else can use them. And it doesn't mean that your experience is the only outcome possible. We all have different experiences with different things. You had bad experiences with Macs, but someone else may have had a much better experience.