The Gang of Five

Important Announcements => Announcements => Topic started by: Petrie. on June 08, 2009, 04:44:42 PM

Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Petrie. on June 08, 2009, 04:44:42 PM
A member of the board brought to my attention the postcounts that people can rack up in the Party Room alone by posting responses to games that require a one-word answer and no real detail or length like a topic in the Fridge might.  They feel that a real post or message to others has real thought and detail in it, and that those thoughts and opinions are what should be represented through the numbers, not the number of times you can make a new message.

Invision does allow the admin staff to disable individual postcounts for specific forums, so it wouldn't be any work at all to disable postcounts from the party room (board wise, the post would count as a new message, but the individual member would not be credited).

This isn't something I'm going to do out of the blue.  Do any or most of you agree with this view of a "message" or a "post" and perhaps should the ability to measure creativity be given more preference than the ability to rack up numbers based on games?

I'll leave it to you guys to decide.
Adam
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: landbeforetimelover on June 08, 2009, 04:50:02 PM
I agree with making the one-word responses not count and such....but if it includes RP then I don't support that.  Although I don't participate in them myself, some RP's are well thought out and require long responses and I believe that posts should count there.

I wish there was a way to limit the number of words in a post before the post actually counted.  Nothing ridiculous but say.....20 words or so.  That way posts that don't have a lot of thought put into them such as "Glad you're feeling better" wouldn't get counted.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Nimrod on June 08, 2009, 04:59:49 PM
It¥s a good idea Adam. I would do it.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Nick22 on June 08, 2009, 05:03:57 PM
I like the 20 word minimum..  It would require taking more than five seconds to post...
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: landbeforetimelover on June 08, 2009, 05:16:07 PM
I don't suppose they give you access to any Java or Pearl huh Petrie?  If there wasn't such an option like a minimum post count I could code one for you.....but something tells me they're not about to let you mess with their server side script code. :p
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: The Chronicler on June 08, 2009, 05:27:32 PM
I'm undecided on this. :unsure:  But, then again, I'm not much on making decisions, anyway. Also, after checking a few random posts, I think a 10 word minimum might work better than a 20 word minimum.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: F-14 Ace on June 08, 2009, 05:48:03 PM
I personally don't care about post counts.  Either way is fine with me.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Mumbling on June 09, 2009, 12:47:08 AM
Hmm, I have this on another forum I'm with. Think it's a pretty good idea :)
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Noname on June 09, 2009, 03:14:25 AM
The limit should be 10 words, if there is one at all. I'm not an admin, and my view on this is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it..." Still, it is not my call to make...
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Lillefot on June 09, 2009, 05:22:25 AM
Why not make it a real challenge, with 2500 words being the minimum!  :wow
Boy, I hated that exam.

Nevertheless, 20 words would be a good minimum I suppose.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Petrie. on June 09, 2009, 06:57:52 AM
Quote from: landbeforetimelover,Jun 8 2009 on  04:16 PM
I don't suppose they give you access to any Java or Pearl huh Petrie?  If there wasn't such an option like a minimum post count I could code one for you.....but something tells me they're not about to let you mess with their server side script code. :p
Not sure.  Invision is pretty dated...their newer zetaboards might have this already pre-installed.  I've never really checked.

I'm thinking more along the line of two sentences for a reply than an actual number of words.  One sentence is to tell a thought, the other is to say why you think that way.  That would get you anywhere between ten or twenty words in most cases.

The only section where no post counts would increase is the Party Room and any subsections (Caption This, Trivia, etc.).  Every other place would count because they're set up and encourage more thought.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Cancerian Tiger on June 09, 2009, 08:00:53 AM
This will make for terribly long captions in the "Caption This" section :blink:.  I'm not sure 'bout this one.  I would hate to see it affect the RP section as well.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: lbt/cty_lover on June 09, 2009, 08:28:53 AM
Even though most of my postcounts are from the Party Room, I don't mind in the least. It'll help me be more active on this forum, anyways.

Also, CT, this wouldn't affect the RP section. It's only targeted for the Party Room.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Cancerian Tiger on June 09, 2009, 10:42:33 AM
If it's just the Party Room being affected, then that's alright with me.  It should have a ten word minimum rule.  Ten seems more reasonable than twenty.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Kor on June 09, 2009, 12:00:24 PM
Why not just disable post counts and redo everyone's to 0, or have them frozen at some point, once you hit the highest level, 5,000 I think it is.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Noname on June 09, 2009, 12:12:38 PM
Easy for you to say, Kor; you have over 16,000 posts!  :lol  

Seriously, though, if there is to be a limit... 10 words is probably best...

You can still express a full thought with ten words.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: DarkHououmon on June 09, 2009, 12:18:23 PM
I don't like the idea of reseting everyone's post count to 0. That would really bother me. I like to know how many times I posted on a forum. If I came onto the board and saw my post count went down to 0, I would be pretty angry.

I'm not too fond of the idea of limiting the postcount. This is due to the fact that I personally like to know how many times I posted. If a limitation were implimented, then postcounts in member profiles would no longer be accurate. When I post, I expect the number of my postcounts to go up by one, regardless of how long my post is.

But if the decision to limit postcounts is put through, I guess I can't really do anything about it.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Kor on June 09, 2009, 12:23:25 PM
That is ok, none of my ideas are liked by anyone so none of them will be implimated nor even considered by the admin so need to give those a second thought.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Petrie. on June 09, 2009, 07:26:13 PM
Quote from: Kor,Jun 9 2009 on  11:23 AM
That is ok, none of my ideas are liked by anyone so none of them will be implimated nor even considered by the admin so need to give those a second thought.
How negative....

I never said I was going to implement this without other members knowing about it.  That's why I threw this out here for us to look over.  The person that told me this had a reasonable argument for what they suggested, enough so, that it got me interested in the idea.  

There won't be any official word count minimum, but it does bring a point that all members should try and give reasonable thought to their messages whenever possible.  Perhaps that isn't applicable in the Party Room or Caption This...that's ok, I wouldn't expect it to work there.  For things in the Fridge or the role plays or the other discussion sections, I think a little thought can go a long way, so longer posts could actually help in these cases.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Littlefoot1616 on June 10, 2009, 06:42:28 AM
I'm game for it. It makes sense that only posts with a decent amount of brain power should be counted rather than one-word replies in game like "Word Association" which is on like it's 400th page almost now :smile This should be a truer reflection of everyone's post count so I say go with it.

One question though Mr Looker in the Sky. Once this protocol goes into effect, those who have posted in the Party Room (which is pretty much everyone at some given stage of their stay here), will their posts in said room be deducted from their current total they've acquired so far? I.e. Mr X has 10 posts, 4 of which are in the Party Room so his updated post count will now be 6.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Petrie. on June 10, 2009, 06:47:45 AM
^ Never turned this feature on, so I'd have to say yes, that's how it would work.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Petrie. on June 10, 2009, 07:04:59 AM
Ok here's the scoop:

I just tested this feature and turned individual post count off for the party room.  It did not remove any posts members had already made in the party room, meaning you keep what posts you have made.  It would only prevent new ones from counting.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Littlefoot1616 on June 10, 2009, 07:05:06 AM
Well that's pretty cool. At least everyone gets to keep what they've accumulated so far. I can't see any major consequence to having this put into effect.  ;)
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Littlefoot Fan on June 10, 2009, 10:14:07 AM
While I do agree with this idea, I think that if you did go through with it, the Party Room would see a lot less activity. I admit that the only thing that motivates me to post in the Party Room is the increase in my post count :p Sure there are a couple of games in there that actually require thought and are fun to play, but even those I would find just pointless to participate in if I knew there wasn't any kind of permanent increment on my part. It sounds kind of childish and stupid, but it's just the way I feel about forums. Your post count is the only way of saying to people how active you are, and if people know that a particular post is not going to increase their activity, most likely they're not going to bother with that section of the board.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Compy-Rex on June 11, 2009, 08:47:18 AM
Yeah, as much as the Party Room got me posts, it makes sense.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Paradise Bird on June 11, 2009, 09:00:00 AM
Usually would be a post pool in most forums.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: action9000 on June 11, 2009, 02:13:45 PM
Sorry for the late response; I wasn't on my computer much yesterday.

I am actually against this proposition for a few reasons.

As active GoF members, many of us are aware of who tends to post more in the Party Room and who tends to post more elsewhere.  This can be made obvious by simply clicking around the party room for a few minutes.  

To me this sounds like a way to track the number of 'useful' posts, which I think is a little bit disrespectful, considering this is a casual forum for people to come to for relaxation, to unwind, etc.  Calling one's person's way to relax "not worthy of counting as a real post" because they're playing a game rather than posting in a topic that tends to encourage discussion, especially when it's just as easy to have a meaningless post elsewhere than in the party room, seems to be rather biased against the members who participate in party games.

It also takes 'credit' away from those members who honestly come up with good posts in the Party Room, such as a new popular game or someone who helps to explain the rules of a game.  

Since we have no way of measuring the 'quality' of a post until it's read (and even then, as long as it follows the rules of the game, it can be justified as an acceptable post), I just don't think it's reasonable to assume that all posts in the party room aren't even worth counting.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Malte279 on June 11, 2009, 04:46:36 PM
There are threads though which are really without any intend (and possibility) whatsoever to turn into anything other than a post count booster. No way to make anything more out of games like the word association, the alphabet game, the word connection, or the guess the next poster games (for example).
Maybe there could be an own section for such games and the no post count be imposed on that section. A decrease in activity of such threads would be likely but if there is indeed such a decrease it would go to show that these games are really post count boosters than an actual relaxation.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Paradise Bird on June 11, 2009, 07:55:33 PM
I support anyone's decision.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Petrie. on June 11, 2009, 07:57:59 PM
So what are we left with here....yays, nays, don't give a rat's patooie about the whole thing...?  From what I gather some want to try it, some don't.  Pretty typical of democracy when given that chance.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Tyrannosaur on June 12, 2009, 12:19:12 AM
to be honest i dont see why people all over forums, regardless of the subjects they cover, are so focused on post count. its just a number under your avatar :p.

i wouldnt mind either way. im not too concerned with my post count and i think people who only have one or two words per post shouldnt be credited for it. but either way works for me :)
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Serris on June 12, 2009, 12:24:09 AM
Personally, I do see a slight problem with making Party Room posts count.

I'm not sure if AM is immediately visible to new members but AM required someone to have a certain post number before it was visible (I do remember this being implemented at some point), someone could just quickly churn out posts in the Party Room and have access to AM...and I do see a slight potential for abuse. Maybe I'm being paranoid but it is a real possibility.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: DarkHououmon on June 12, 2009, 12:38:22 AM
Quote from: Tyrannosaur,Jun 12 2009 on  12:19 AM
to be honest i dont see why people all over forums, regardless of the subjects they cover, are so focused on post count. its just a number under your avatar :p.
I like to know how many times I post on a forum.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Kor on June 12, 2009, 12:55:36 AM
I personally do not care what my post count is and don't see why folks care what theirs is.  But I am insane so that may be why I don't care.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: DarkHououmon on June 12, 2009, 01:10:53 AM
It's a personal thing. Seeing how many posts I made makes me feel good about myself in regards to the forum, about my participation, about how active I have been, etc. I'm not arrogant; I'm not looking to outpost anyone. I just like to know how many post counts I make.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Malte279 on June 12, 2009, 04:37:55 AM
Quote
  So what are we left with here....yays, nays, don't give a rat's patooie about the whole thing...? From what I gather some want to try it, some don't. Pretty typical of democracy when given that chance.
But democracy is giving us a very clear vote here. Reading through the above posts I find 10 members in favor of a change of the post count rules for the party room. 6 members who are undecided. And 2 who spoke out against a change of the post count rules.

I do agree with what Tim said about not every party room post being without any substance. Therefore my suggestion is to create a subforum in the party room for those games which are really only post count boosters (This could include all those games which require one or two word responses that don't require any more thinking than perhaps the first letter or syllable of the word or which are entirely random). It seems likely that the activity in these threads may decrease as a consequence, but if that is indeed to be the case, it would be pretty much of a proof that these games are really just post count boosters rather than real games played for the fun of them.
I also think Serris raised a valid point. Not everyone capable of associating 20 words with other words delivers sufficient information that way to show that he or she is to be trusted with the somewhat more sensitive information of the AM section.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Petrie. on June 12, 2009, 07:07:50 AM
Quote
I do agree with what Tim said about not every party room post being without any substance. Therefore my suggestion is to create a subforum in the party room for those games which are really only post count boosters (This could include all those games which require one or two word responses that don't require any more thinking than perhaps the first letter or syllable of the word or which are entirely random). It seems likely that the activity in these threads may decrease as a consequence, but if that is indeed to be the case, it would be pretty much of a proof that these games are really just post count boosters rather than real games played for the fun of them.

That could be arranged.  It would look a little more like our arts section of the board is now where you enter the main section and find five sub-sections to choose from.  Post boosters like "word association" could go in a section that wouldn't raise your post count, but sections like Caption This or Brain Food would continue to count since they require a little more thought and substance.

Nothing's finalized of course.  What I think though is a lot of people come for the party room and reply to a lot of things...you take away the benefit of "number boosters" there will be less activity on this board and some people may look around less.  I haven't been in the party room in a long time, so are the members who post the heck out of the party room replying in other places too or are they just playing the games? (I've seen this happen before where people are more gamers than repliers in other sections.)
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Kor on June 12, 2009, 08:19:13 AM
Malte's idea can work.  It would show who's there in those threads that you only do 1-3 or so words in a post and that is all you are allowed to do.  There are others like Malte said where most of the posts are a sentence or a paragraph.  Malte's idea may be the best of both.  Though I would agree with Malte that those threads where one only does 1-3 posts may see activity, some folks like myself would still go there since I find those fun.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: action9000 on June 17, 2009, 02:00:41 AM
the tricky part with that, Malte, would be organizing the games in such a way that would make sense to everyone who is creating a new game.  We would need to define a 'threshold' of what games don't add post count and which games do.

I still dont' like the thought of not creditting posts that could appear in these games to explain things and whatnot.  I still think making some topics not count towards post count is rather murky water.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Malte279 on June 17, 2009, 02:58:57 AM
Quote
the tricky part with that, Malte, would be organizing the games in such a way that would make sense to everyone who is creating a new game. We would need to define a 'threshold' of what games don't add post count and which games do.
Games could be moved to that section once it is obvious they don't produce anything but one word posts (if our members do not post such games in the new section in the first place). That way the introductory post of two or three complete sentence would still be counted. But seriously, how many of the almost 7200 posts in the word connection game are more than one word? How many of the about 3800 guess the next poster (counting member names as one word and neglecting phrases such as "no", "yes I am" etc.), how many of the almost 11600 word association? Really, it makes up for far more than 10% of the boards total posts (and I just mentioned three of the extremest threads in that respect).
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: action9000 on June 17, 2009, 03:28:39 AM
Quote
Really, it makes up for far more than 10% of the boards total posts (and I just mentioned three of the extremest threads in that respect).
If 10 or 15% of our whole board tends to be one-word-response games, whether we hide the numbers or not it will still be true.  I see what you're getting at, Malte.  In the end, we know and can find out who is making posts in which sections of the board.  Everyone can easily find out where a lot of the posts a member makes are, just by spending a little time on the GoF.  Why is there a need to artificially bias our post count numbers when, let's be honest, if word association is important enough to our members to have 11600 posts in it, I don't think that's anything to ignore either.  

I think this comes down to another question too:
What exactly does post count *mean* to us?  I am getting the impression that you would prefer it to be a representation of the number of 'meaningful' posts a member as made that has helped develop and progress our community, and that you don't believe the existance of such one-word games is doing anything beneficial for our community and therefore ought to be all but ignored in this "post count", as defined easlier in this paragraph.

I sincerely apologize if that sounded harsh in any way, mate. :) And having post count reflect the number of meaningful posts a member has made is very logical.  That being said, if my post in a game helps to allow someone else to have fun in their game, is that not beneficial?  I don't spend much time on the one-word games myself, but if we refuse to acknowledge a part of our board that has, indeed, found a way to grab over 10% of our total posts, which obviously says something about our community and how we just like to come here and spend a little time having random fun, than in my mind it is a step towards turning our GoF into an elitist community.  Again, sincere apologies for any extremist wording, that is just a representation of where this is leading, in my eyes.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Petrie. on June 17, 2009, 06:25:10 AM
Admin decisions will be reached by tonight likely.  Stay tuned.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Shinji-Lee on June 19, 2009, 02:40:32 AM
uhm...i wish i had your problems...
action is right about asking how important the counts are.
i know about a forum, where posters with less than 100 posts are ignored, laughed at and flamed. the name of that forum is NOT the gang of five.
i say postcounts is a number, which does not say: i have made many posts so i'm a better member/ i'm cooler/ whatever.

i seem to not understand the problem. hide the counts, take them out of the system or leave everything like it is. 'im positive either way.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Petrie. on June 19, 2009, 07:01:51 AM
The admins have reached a decision and this idea will go on for a trial period of 30 days and then we can reassess whether or not it was worth it.  The Party Room will have an additional sub-forum where any remaining "no post-count" games wiill go.  Therefore, when you enter the party room all you will see are subforums, and then you pick a sub-forum and choose where you go.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: The Chronicler on June 19, 2009, 09:54:56 AM
A 30-day trial seems like a good idea. It will give everyone an idea of what such a change will mean for them, without having to worry about the change being permanent.

One thing I wanted to point out, I did some calculations on the number of posts in the 'no post-count' sub-forum. As of now, there are only 4 topics there, but the total posts already there consists of nearly 12% of the total number of posts on the entire forum! The largest of those topics, word association, has nearly 6% of the total posts for the entire forum! For one topic, that's a very big number! :wow
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Malte279 on June 19, 2009, 11:44:46 AM
Aye, but for so large a thread also a very small number of words :lol
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: landbeforetimelover on June 19, 2009, 11:52:34 AM
Great!  Now that the posts don't count in the "Word Association" and "Word Connection" threads, I can post there without feeling guilty.  Ya see, the thing is I want my post count to be truly based on posts that have meaning.  Though fun, I've been sticking away from those two topics because of this.  Now I can start posting there again. :yes
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Petrie. on June 19, 2009, 04:48:58 PM
Quote from: landbeforetimelover,Jun 19 2009 on  10:52 AM
Great!  Now that the posts don't count in the "Word Association" and "Word Connection" threads, I can post there without feeling guilty.  Ya see, the thing is I want my post count to be truly based on posts that have meaning.  Though fun, I've been sticking away from those two topics because of this.  Now I can start posting there again. :yes
I wonder how many people feel that way besides you.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: landbeforetimelover on June 19, 2009, 04:55:37 PM
Quote
I wonder how many people feel that way besides you.

Probably not many.  I'm a lot more sentimental than most folks and my post count means a lot to me.  But it's certainly not the number that matters.  It's the quality posts that I'm proud of.  I don't usually make responses that are any shorter than the response you're reading right now.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: lbt/cty_lover on July 17, 2009, 10:16:04 PM
Well, even though you might feel that way LBTLover, and I do as well, the topics have pretty much died.  :cry I'm not going to go as far as asking for these topics to count towards posts again, but I am saying that ever since they were moved to a new sub-forum, they have lost almost all the posters there.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: DarkHououmon on July 17, 2009, 10:22:59 PM
I'm not really surprised that happened. It doesn't matter what kind of topic it is. Take away the post count and it seems likely activity would decrease as well. Doesn't matter if it's a one-word type of topic or one that requires more thought. No post counts, less activity. That's just my opinion of course.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: lbt/cty_lover on July 17, 2009, 10:24:46 PM
Quote from: DarkHououmon,Jul 17 2009 on  09:22 PM
I'm not really surprised that happened. It doesn't matter what kind of topic it is. Take away the post count and it seems likely activity would decrease as well. Doesn't matter if it's a one-word type of topic or one that requires more thought. No post counts, less activity. That's just my opinion of course.
Then that is just sad. I'm not calling you sad, but that concept is depressing. It makes me think that people only care about his/her postcount, which isn't what a board is about.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: DarkHououmon on July 17, 2009, 10:31:31 PM
That was just my opinion on how I think things would go if post counts were taken away. I don't think everyone would reduce their activity because post counts were taken away, though.

Personally, I would feel less compelled to post if my post count remained the same. I like to know how many times I posted on a board. It's just my preference. Do I care only about post counts? No. I know that's not what a board is about. However, I still like to know how many posts I made. This includes the short, one-word posts.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Malte279 on July 18, 2009, 02:54:38 AM
In a sense the last days were kind of a test about whether those games were mere post count boosters or if people really played them for the fun of the games. The extreme degree in activity in those games suggests that indeed they were mainly post count boosters. Therefore they are going to stay in the not counted section permanently.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: lbt/cty_lover on July 18, 2009, 08:49:15 AM
Well, even though the activity will stay down, I can't say I don't approve of the decision. I shall keep trying to keep the activity up in the sub-forum.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: DarkHououmon on July 18, 2009, 08:58:51 AM
I admit, I've never been part of a board where post counts were restricted. It feels strange to me.

When I make a post, I don't do it to increase my post count; just to participate. But as stated before, I still like an accurate number on how much I particpated, including one-word posts. If you were to take away post counts for another section, you'd see less activity from me for that section because the post counts would no longer be accurate.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Kor on July 18, 2009, 10:22:03 AM
I don't care about post counts myself.  On dragonadopters 99% of my posts are in threads that do not add to your post counts.  It just happens here most of mine are in threads that add to your post count.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: lbt/cty_lover on July 18, 2009, 11:41:18 AM
Same here, Kor. On the DA forum, I post a lot in the Clubs/Clans forum and the Forum Games forum.
Title: An interesting proposition
Post by: Petrie. on July 18, 2009, 04:27:33 PM
Just to pinpoint it, its unanimous among the admins to keep the threads where they are.  You still can post in the threads as freely as before.