The Gang of Five
The forum will have some maintenance done in the next couple of months. We have also made a decision concerning AI art in the art section.


Please see this post for more details.

John Brown

Malte279

  • The Circle
  • The Gang of Five
  • *
    • Posts: 15608
    • View Profile
    • http://www.ineinemlandvorunsererzeit.de.vu
As part of my studies I read and heard quite a bit about John Brown, the abolitionist who became known mainly for his raid on the arsenal in Harper's Ferry in an attempt to start a slave uprising in 1859. Then as today the man in seen in extremely controversial ways and I am very interested in the opinions of our American members.
As this may be a controversial topic I decided to post it in the AM section.
So how to you view John Brown?


Petrie.

  • Hatchling
  • *
    • Posts: 0
  • It's good to be the king!
    • View Profile
Same as you do...abolistionist who tried to gather support to end slavery.  I've a feeling most anyone from the state of Virginia and north think in the same manner.  You need to go south of that line and you might find a differing opinion.


Nick22

  • Administrator
  • The Gang of Five
  • *
    • Posts: 41625
    • View Profile
he was extremely religious as were many people of that era. he was also a troublemaker, and frankly I think he ws a lunatic.. his attemped attack on Jarpers Ferry never stood a chance.
Winner of these:


Runner up for these:




Malte279

  • The Circle
  • The Gang of Five
  • *
    • Posts: 15608
    • View Profile
    • http://www.ineinemlandvorunsererzeit.de.vu
Quote
Same as you do...abolistionist who tried to gather support to end slavery.
I just gave a definition, not an opinion, but opinions are what I'm mainly after in this thread. We do have many members on both sides of Mason Dixie here who told they are interested in history. I'm really interested in the views of everybody here. To make things a bit easier I'll post a couple of questions. Remember, I'm looking mainly for your spontaneous opinions. The questions are only meant to offer some help of where to begin. If there is any question you can't or don't want to answer please don't if there is anything not part of those questions that you would like to write, please do.

Do you have a generally positive or a negative view of John Brown?

Do you think that he was a lunatic (note that there are people who have a positive view of him who say that he was while some with a negative view on him say that he was not)?

Do you think that he believed his raid on Harper's Ferry could actually trigger the slave revolt he intended or do you think that he actually planned for his own death?

Do you think the trial of John Brown was fair or not (note that I do not mean to turn this into a debate about the death penalty in general, but just about John Brown)?

In your opinion, did John Brown's action have a major impact on US history or was it just an intermezzo in a development that would have taken place anyway, with or without him?


raga

  • Petrie
  • *
    • Posts: 948
    • View Profile
I've never been a fan of the man.  What he was trying to accomplish was a good and noble cause, but his means of doing were wrong.  I look at him in a similar way as Bush, believing that the ends justify the means, no matter how horrible the means are.


Nick22

  • Administrator
  • The Gang of Five
  • *
    • Posts: 41625
    • View Profile
answering your questions in more detail. Brown was a complex man, while he was commited to ending slavery, his methods were extreme. Was he a lunatic. I would say so, even granting that aboloitionist was a relatively fringe position at the time, Brown was out on the far edge among abolitionists. The South had great fear of a black uprising.. they had dealt with several over the preceding 50 years. Vecsey  being among the most notable. I think that Brown initially had high hopes for the raid, as people who go out to do something radical, often are fully convinced that they can do it, regardless of the odds and logistics against it.. I don't think he planned for his own death, he assumed there would an insurrection by the slaves, and that he and his men would escape into the mountains. Was his trail fair? I think the case against brown was pretty solid, and the verdict was forgone conclusion, however the governor probably could have commuted his sentence if he so chose. the trial was very polarizing, the South by and large wanted him dead, while he become a martyr for the abolotionist cause in the nOrth. john Brown's raid was a galvanizinf event, it set the two sections even more against each other. While the split between them was growing in the 1850s anyway despite attempts to repair it by Congress, Brown drove a wedge between them that excerbated things still further. In the abscence of Brown, it would have taken something else to set the North and South so firmly against each other.
Winner of these:


Runner up for these:




Alex

  • Petrie
  • *
    • Posts: 895
    • View Profile
Well I think the attack he attempted never stood a chance, and I think he really beleived that it was going to work, that he was going to "trigger the slave revolt", but I can't call him a 'lunatic'. I also can't say that I have a negative opinion of him.  I think he was just very, very devoted to his cause. Maybe that devotion drove him a little over the edge of reality, causing him to do those extreme things, I can't say for sure. But, after some things we've seen throughout history (Killing women because they were "witches" comes to mind), I wouldn't go so far to call him crazy, or a lunatic.


Noname

  • The Gang of Five
  • *
    • Posts: 13211
    • View Profile
    • http://z6.invisionfree.com/Fantasy_RP_Board/index.php?act=idx
John Brown was a religious fanatic who might be compared to anti-abortion snipers today...

Brown was a convicted criminal, and was hanged... and although his methods were wrong... he was right! And within a short time, killing people to free slaves would become national policy!

So, it is rather confusing, as murder is wrong, and innocents died in his one-man war against slavery... and yet, hundreds of thousands died, and much of the South reduced to ruins by a totally legal war...

Slavery was wrong, but that doesn't give one man the right to take it upon himself to end it... I'm not saying that just because the government did that, it was made right...

I'm not sure about a lot of things involving that man... only that the abortion clinic snipers of our time are modern day John Browns...


aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)

  • Member+
  • Littlefoot
  • *
    • Posts: 8266
  • Rations
    • View Profile
    • aabicus.com
I checked out Harper's Ferry, and it was pretty interesting. On thing about John Brown, the textbooks make a up a lot of stuff about him. "It was clinically proven John Brown was insane," said my high school textbook. I'm fairly certain no clinic said anything of the sort.


Serris

  • General of the Great Valley
  • Member+
  • The Gang of Five
  • *
    • Posts: 11356
  • The cyberpunk Deinonychus
    • View Profile
I see him as an abolitionist who was so consumed by hatred of slavery that he felt obligated to end it by any means possible, including violence.

Was he insane? Personally, I don't think so. I think he just let hatred and fanaticism get the best of him.

My opinion of him? Though his cause was noble, he went about the wrong way of undertaking it.


Poster of the GOF's 200,000th post

Please read and rate: Land Before Time: Twilight Valley - The GOF's original LBT war story.


landbeforetimelover

  • Member+
  • Littlefoot
  • *
    • Posts: 8495
  • Littlefoot
    • View Profile
    • http://www.thelandbeforetime.org
I never really learned much about him so I don't really have much of an opinion on the guy. :p


Grungecat

  • Chomper
  • *
    • Posts: 95
    • View Profile
I do believe he was a bit crazy, bit not like insane-crazy, more of an obsessed-crazy. I never learned of his trial, mostly they mention how he took the arsenal and then shot the first person he saw running towards his stronghold - a supporter of his. But I've never had a negative opinion of him, probably only because his cause was right. Had he been a crazed supporter of a worse cause then he probably would be extremely despised instead of well liked (I've never heard of anyone at all who thinks what he did was 100% wrong).


Noname

  • The Gang of Five
  • *
    • Posts: 13211
    • View Profile
    • http://z6.invisionfree.com/Fantasy_RP_Board/index.php?act=idx
As I said, John Brown is on the exact same moral level as abortion clinic snipers... both were willing to kill in order to attempt to abolish an institution which they saw as immoral, despite the institution being perfectly legal... and defended by the supreme court itself

(Dred Scott v. Sanford & Roe v. Wade)