The Gang of Five
The Land Before Time => 1988 Theatrical Release => Topic started by: Raptor on September 20, 2007, 11:28:05 AM
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Way back when, when The Land Before Time was the only LBT film, some people thought that the Gang had died, and the The Great Valley was an interpetation of Heaven. Now, this, I thought, was weird. Where did people get that idea? A little more research, and it led to me finding that this was started when some guy thought the Sharptooth had killed the Gang, and that the whole "Sharptooth's Death" and "Great Valley Arrival" Sequnces were just the Gang arriving at "heaven". Anybody else heard of this weirdness?
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I have heard of that rumor. Some guy on DA claimed that that was the original ending to Land Before Time.
http://neverland-syndrome.deviantart.com/a...al-End-54143793 (http://neverland-syndrome.deviantart.com/art/Land-Before-Time-Original-End-54143793)
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I'm fairly sure Don Bluth has said that the ending was never meant to mean any sort of "heaven", and there was never any other ending involving the Gang's deaths. Besides, that would have been rather depressing for all the kids watching. The rumor that had started said that the deaths weren't shown because it would be too violent. So.... thier idea of heaven was killing a giant Tyrannosaurus and ending up in a lush valley?
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Yeah, true.
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More reseach, and I've discovered that the guy who started it really believed this, and didn't just start it to mess people up. He thought that Littlefoot's mother's ghost was guiding him to heaven, and that the first view of the Great Valley was just Littlefoot realizing he was going to die. Depressing, ain't it? I think it would have been a horrible ending, to find out that the Dinosaurs had died after going through so much to get to the valley.
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Quite a unique way to look at the ending.
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Admittedly, it would have been interesting if that's how they meant the ending, but it still would have been rather saddening.
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Yeah.
Then again they pulled off something similar in All Dogs Go To Heaven, didn't they?
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I heard that rumor too, but I didn't ever see any reference in an official source. In general I don't consider a children's movie with dying main characters an impossible thing, even at that time. Don't forget that "All dog's go to heaven" was in the cinemas at the same time as the land before time was. With dinosaurs being "destined" to die out it may be that somebody thought about such an ending of LBT. There are also more official sources claiming that earlier concepts of LBT were more gloomy (for example by a higher stress of the theme of racism), but I never saw any official claim of LBT characters' death. So it remains a rumor though one which I would not label as as unthinkable as some other LBT rumors we have had before.
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You beat me to the "All Dogs go to heaven" reference Kacie :lol:
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You beat me to the "All Dogs go to heaven" reference Kacie :lol:
Yeah I apparently did. XD
All Dogs Go To Heaven did have the main character die in the end.
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While that is correct, All Dogs go To Heaven took a more cheerful angle(I haven't seen it in ages, but I'm fairly sure this is true, unless this an entrily differant movie I'm thinking about) on it. The angle this seems to be coming from, whilst being a happy ending, would still be saddening. All this talk of the orginal LBT makes me want to watch it again, but unfortunatly, my parents got rid of all my LBT movies because they thought I was too old for them. But, never mind that, back to the main subject.
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I have the original movie..somewhere. It's an old VHS tape. I dunno if it still plays or not.
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I read up on it, and indeed, the main character of All Dogs go to Heaven was already dead before his death at the end. So, it seems differant then the circumstances suggested in the LBT rumor.
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I read up on it, and indeed, the main character of All Dogs go to Heaven was already dead before his death at the end. So, it seems differant then the circumstances suggested in the LBT rumor.
He did die earlier on, near the beginning. But he revived himself with that life clock of his. So he was technically alive during the course of most of the movie.
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I heard that rumor too.
I was quite depressed when I heard that. :cry2
But thankfully, it was a rumor. Still, I'm quite sad if I think of it.
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Alright, it's been confirmed. Don Bluth always meant the ending to by portrayed as it currently is. The Great Valley was never meant to by Dinosaur Heaven, at least not in a literal sense. Sure would have been a sad ending, though. If that was what the ending was going to mean, how would it be identified as Dinosaur Heaven?
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I do see where the assumption of the Great Valley as a dinosaur's heaven might have come from.
"Some things you see with your eyes, others you see with your heart."
In a way it is almost a little disenchanting to see the quote referring to the solid real place the Great Valley turned out to be. Littlefoot's Mum might have responded that the Great Valley's existence is an asserted fact based on the many reports from dinosaurs who have been there before (from a sequel's perspective Littlefoot's grandpa even knew about details of the Great Valley such as the legend of saurus Rock, implying that maybe he had actually been there before).
That way there would have been no speculation on the Great Valley being a kind of dinosaur heaven and the land before time as a whole would have been considerably worse without that magical quote and the impression it created.
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Ah, it makes sense now. Still, it is odd that he would assume that. You'd think it would be more obvious if the Gang was meant to be dead.
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That's a rumor I've never heard of before! This is an intersting topic!
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I've read up a little more, and it turns out there was varitions on this rumor. Ala, the Gang dieing in the Great Earthshake, or the Gang's deaths being a cut scene because it was too violent, and the ending was meant to by Dinosaur Heaven.
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I didn't ever read these exact variations of the rumor. Where did you read it?
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Well, I searched "LBT Rumors"(with quotation marks... god knows what I'd get without them) and got a few sites that talked about rumors that spawned after the first movie. The various versions of "The Gang Died and The Great Valley is Heaven!" rumors were listed. I don't really remember the sites' URLs.
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quote from ending of LBT 1 (from memory so it may be a little off):
And they all grew up together in the valley, generation upon generation, each passing on to the next, the tale of the journey to the valley...long ago.
#1, how would they grow up together if they were dead?
#2, how would they have children if they were dead
#3, how would they have been able to pass on any stories if they were dead?
There is no way this guy could have thought that it was really heaven unless he didn't watch it to the end. This quote was taken at the end of LBT 1 right before the "diana ross" song.
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I've known about this for awhile. I mean, who would think up something like this? It's not like he/she ever saw any of the out take footage that might (of course, we know it doesn't) have supported this.
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Funny enough I don't believe this rumor at all. It interesting idea that this person came up with but I don't believe it for a heart beat.
Since in the book that I heard about from people here on the GOF Littlefoot sees the Old Sharptooth had been following him towards the Great Valley when he found it first so he goes back to get his friends and to stop him before heading there themselves.
with that conclusion my mind is very much made up
and what Landbeforetimelover said is ture as well. so the rumor of a heaven and they all died is nothing more then hot air.
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I never said I believed it, I just said this person believed. It's a very odd rumor, considering the ending speech and stuff, but he could've just not listened to the bit at the end. He mantains this was what the ending meant.
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I don't think anyone was accusing you of believing it, Raptor.
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I must have misunderstood what Threehorn was saying. Still, the topic mantains. What made him believe this after the sequals started coming out?
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That dude that submitted this to imdb.com a long time ago is getting his 15 minutes of fame here. :rolleyes:
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*sigh* You're probably right. I still want to know what made him think that.
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I didn't read the rumor posts recently, but in this discussion I was assuming we were talking about the rumor about an alternative ending of the land before time that might have been considered by some members of the staff at some time but was obviously never realized. That is about as much credit as I think could be given to this rumor over those which lack ANY possible basis whatsoever.
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Well, I was also bringing up the fact that there was a rumor that the Great Valley in the current ending was thought to be an interpetation of heaven, and that the Gang died. Nowadays, that obviously false, but there are some people who believe that's what the ending was intended to mean, or that there was an alternate ending to that effect. So, you're right, Malte, but this disscussion is also about the other versions of the rumor.
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I'm with the "this is a rumor a viewer made up" crowd. Anyone watching the film would certainly know that Littlefoor and his friends are all still alive at the end of the story. landbeforetimelover pointed out all the reason we ever need to know why.
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I'm with the "this is a rumor a viewer made up" crowd.
Is there anyone who isn't? ;)
It couldn't be more obvious a fact that none of the maincharacters died in the original (or any other) LBT movie.
The only thing I say on behalf of the rumor is that it might be possible that at some point in the planning of LBT somebody brought up the death of the maincharacters as an option. There have been some concepts for a gloomier land before time. Whether or not dying maincharacters were part of those gloomier concepts I cannot say, but I cannot exclude it either. For that reason I don't discard that rumor as completely as some other rumors.
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Just another thing to point out. If they had really died and gone to dino heaven then wouldn't Littlefoot have been reunited with his mother? It seems that whoever started this rumor didn't think about that. :rolleyes:
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I just said that in case there was anyone on here who actually had any serious considerations for the rumor. 'It takes all sorts', after all.
Excellent point General Grievous. I hadn't even thought of that, but I should have! :lol:
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Seriously, that would have been a weird ending. :P: I would have been scratched my head and gone :huh: :huh: :huh: .
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I've heard of this rumor as well, but I'm glad they didn't go with that kind of ending. Imagine how the kids watching the movie would've taken in that ending, no one would've left the theater room without being in tears. Myself included XD
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I've heard of this rumor as well, but I'm glad they didn't go with that kind of ending. Imagine how the kids watching the movie would've taken in that ending, no one would've left the theater room without being in tears. Myself included XD
Took the words right out of my mouth, man. XD
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Just watched the orginal movie(was even better then I remembered) again, and I'm having an even more trouble understanding this rumor then before.
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Hm, metaphorically speaking, that's probably what Don Bluth was trying to get across.
It's not really that the kids died and found this "Great Valley". However, through their pain, troubles, and such during the journey to the Great Valley, it was probably reflecting on how every person has to go through a journey in life and then find your heaven, or in this case, "The Great Valley", when it ends.
I'm not saying this is EXACTLY that this was the moral that Don Bluth was aiming for, but it could be possible that when he made this film, he was reflecting human actions and how everyone has their own journey to go on and then everyone finds their "heaven" or "eternal bliss" or whatever you want to call it.
I'm also not saying that these "rumors" are correct either. They could have been made up by some LBT haters that just want to make trouble...-_- I did have to laugh at that rumor though...I mean honestly, that wouldn't be good at all, kids would be crying, parents would probably be enraged, and some animation fans or Don Bluth fans would probably go: :blink:
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There's another rumor regarding LBT that I recently heard. On YT, some guy messaged me and stated that the original ending of Land Before Time involved the parents coming in to save their children from Sharptooth, but was dropped because it seemed too "cheesy" or "lame".
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To me, it's just a rumor. Rumors don't have any evidence to back them up and I despise it when folks actually believe them without proof they are true <_<. Unless there is documented proof that Don Bluth had intended LBT to end this way, it is just a rumor. Besides, if the Gang truly had perished, why in the heck would the sequels be created :huh:? There would be no grounds to base the sequels off of the afterlife(much controversy would be kicked up then :rolleyes:). There is no proof of this rumor; therefore, I call it a crock -_-.
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There's another rumor regarding LBT that I recently heard. On YT, some guy messaged me and stated that the original ending of Land Before Time involved the parents coming in to save their children from Sharptooth, but was dropped because it seemed too "cheesy" or "lame".
This sounds fake to me.
However, the Great Valley "Afterlife" rumor is known to be false.
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can I simply just say "duh"?
if they were dead, then why wasnt Litlefoot reunited with his mother?
makes no since...
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I watched the first with this idea of the Great Valley perhaps standing in for Heavan in my head, and I loved the ending more than last time. It just seemed to work....not the details, but the general feel.
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The version of the rumor I heard described the idea of the Great Valley as a dinosaur "heaven" as an idea which Bluth and his team pursued at one point but which they dropped because of the very reasons given above (crying kids, angry parents). I don't know it for sure of course, but I think that there may well be some substance to that rumor. "Some things you see with your eyes, others you see with your heart..." that famous line would have fitted very well to such an interpretation of the Great Valley.
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if they were dead, then why wasnt Litlefoot reunited with his mother?
The only possibility as to why they wouldn't be reunited is because maybe Littlefoot's mother knew that he was destnined to find the Great Valley on his own without her help. Maybe not destined, but after he came this far, maybe she realized he needed to find it for himself. I don't know how much sense I am making, but oh well.
I remember reading somewhere about that original ending, but then the website was taken down so I can't give you guys a link to it. I think it would have been plain awful if they were killed off. Also, critics and fans would probably pan the film just because of the ending, at least I know I would.
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Agreed. That ending would have ruined the movie for me. Not to mention the concept of Heaven is a religious concept, and dinosaurs don't fit into the canon of most religions.
And wouldn't the sequels debunk the Heaven idea anyway, since the Great Valley still has suffering, natural disasters, and predators?
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also i see this as a rumor because Littlefoot was on the Earth and his mother was in the clouds apart from eachother. This rumor sounds like something someone would say in a fanfiction of their own.
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Under the condition that such an ending had been considered by Bluth and his team, but was not realized obviously I am not sure if indeed there is no substance at all to the rumor.
There had been at least one other movie around that time (All dogs go to heaven) which included death, but was not particularly religious. With the awareness that dinosaurs are extinct and with the "some things you see with your eyes others you see with your heart" and "circle of life" type of messages I consider it far from impossible that such an interpretation of the Great Valley may have been in the mind of the makers at one time (also remember that they weren't thinking at all about sequels back then).
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It was sounds familar. They were in a paradise except the fact that littlefoot's mother was there. She saved her baby.She should have been in heaven with them. Unless, she went to hell with that sharptooth. :cry
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I doubt the Great Valley in the final version of the movie is meant to be heaven or that Littlefoot and his friends died at the end to enter it.
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Nobody says either of this. It is obvious from the movies that the Great Valley is a very solid, earthly place with all its pros and cons. It is possible though that earlier plans for the movie planned for the Great Valley to be a kind of dinosaur heaven. Obviously these plans (if any) were dropped.
Who knows... is there any chance that the thought of a sequel may have played a role in the decision not to put an absolute and ultimate end to the story? It is very unlikely as I don't think any of the "decision-makers" of the first movie was in any way involved with the second, but I would not quite go so far as to call it impossible that the thought of a sequel may perhaps have played a role in the change of plans if indeed the thought of GV=Heaven existed.
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I'm fairly sure that if thoughts of a sequel had been on anyone's mind when the original was being made, then it wouldn't have taken six years for LBT II to come out, given that they've been able to bring out a sequel every year or two since then.
As for whether they were thinking of making the Great Valley heaven in the original, I'm in two minds about it. There are a few lines that almost make it seem so (eg. "Some things you see with your eyes, others you see with your heart."), but I can't figure out how they would have done the ending without making the bulk of the movie seem pointless.
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I'm fairly sure that if thoughts of a sequel had been on anyone's mind when the original was being made, then it wouldn't have taken six years for LBT II to come out, given that they've been able to bring out a sequel every year or two since then.
Which is why (even though I brought the thought up) I'm quite sure myself that the thought of a sequel did not play a role in the decision to alter the ending if the idea of GV=Dinosaur heaven ever existed. I am not sure, but the idea of such a concept would seem rather plausible to me, so I consider it more likely than not that such ideas existed but were not realized.
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I'm pretty sure it wasn't. Otherwise Littlefoot would have met his mother in the Great Valley.
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I don't think anyone here is saying that the Great Valley really is a dinosaur heaven in the sense of a place where they go after their death. It is perfectly clear that none of the gang characters died in the first movie (or any of the others at that). The idea of the Great Valley as a dinosaur heaven is quite possible to have been considered as an alternative ending of LBT. If such plans existed they were obviously not realized, but it may well be that there had been such plans.
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Oy...just read all three pages! Did'nt want to repeat anything!
My two cents:
I think, whomever started this rumor, is just miffed that all these sequels are comming out and ruined the whole movie for them, so in turn, they would rather have the Gang be dead so that no more sequels could have been made.
Also, the idea could have been real and dropped for reasons stated before. They could have been dropped, also, because the whole death and Heaven deal had been done for All Dogs.
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Once again about that rumor, it said that there had once been such plans while they were still making decisions about the original BUT that they had been abandoned in favor of the version of LBT we know. This may well be true. NOBODY ever claimed that the movie as we know it suggests the Great Valley to be heaven or the maincharacters to be dead.
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A lot of people have said things I were going to say. So, I guess I'll be repeating a few things.
Somewhere I once read that the Great Valley wasn't supposed to literally be heaven, but alluding to or metaphorically heaven. I, too, have heard the rumor that at first the company was going to present the Valley as heaven, but that Lucas and Spielberg decided that would be a scene that would "frighten or possibly even cause psychological damage to young children" so they tweaked it. (This would be one of the disturbing scenes because of the "Heaven = the kids died" equation.)
Just watching the movie now I can see how the GV can be an allusion to heaven, and not the actual thing. I don't think in the released movie the company intended for the GV to BE heaven.
Something gets at me though. I once saw a preview of LBT on YouTube, and I noticed a small snippet that wasn't in the released film. It's at the part at the very end, where they kids are all in that group and they're reaching up toward the sky with Petrie hanging on to Littlefoot. I could swear in the preview they were at that part and then Littlefoot said something like "Now we'll always be together." And something really nagged at me there. The way he said it made me feel like they had died. And then I thought about the rumor.
I KNOW that line wasn't in the movie. So my belief is that the company thought about presenting the Great Valley as heaven, but after deciding it would be too disturbing, it was changed and they took out that line Littlefoot said. Basically, I don't think they meant for the GV to be real heaven.
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I dont think I've seen that trailer. Could you post it for us?
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Here is a link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=NMkxN7ylrYI) to the video clip which had been posted in the Outcut scenes section (http://www.gangoffive.net/index.php?topic=1300.20). The credit for posting it there in the first place goes to Zilla.
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O hey, that's right... I never noticed that before until you pointed it out so clearly RFZT... That made me wondering.
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To me it just means they'll always be together in the Great Valley now that they got there and they are very close friends due to what they went through to get there. I don't see any hint that they are dead and in heaven.
I won't believe the heaven idea unless Don Bluth himself told me that that was his idea or some of the script writers had that in the first draft but it was changed later. Just me.
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No I ever heard such thing, but that is ridiculous.
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There is no official basis whatsoever for the rumor, so a rumor it remains. But it is a rumor that would make more sense to me than many others. I would not go so far as to call it ridiculous. With the many statements in the GOF which can be interpreted in such a manner, the awareness that dinosaurs are extinct and the setting of the original movie was likely to refer to that extinction (no sequels planned at that time), and with death being a topic in kids movies before (most notably in "All dogs go to heaven", I do not think the rumor to be so totally incredible.
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All Dogs Go To Heaven also had a different them than The Land Before Time. The point of LBT was that you have to get along and work together with the people around you in order to make a better future. If they're dead: no future.
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If they're dead: no future.
LBT doesn't go into details of what happens after death, but there is a rather strong spiritual element in the original movie with Littlefoot's mother taking a rather direct influence on Littlefoot even after her death. Of course one could interpret it all to be just a trick of Littlefoot's mind, but personally I don't think it looks that way.
As I said before I have absolutely no clue if there is any substance to that rumor. It may well be entirely made up. All I say is that the rumor does not seem as unthinkable to me as some here may see it as there are many scenes that could have been interpreted accordingly if the decision had been made to make the Great Valley a kind of heaven rather than a real place. I never ever questioned the fact that it is a real place in the plot of the movie in the way it was released; it is not utterly impossible though that a different approach may have been considered but given up in favor of the story as we know it.
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The future is for the living, Malte. Period. I maintain that they are still very alive at the end in order for the theme of working together for a greater future to work. Besides, how much could Mama Longneck have had to do up there if she kept coming back to guide Littlefoot.
I think this whole "The Great Valley is heaven and they're dead at the end" is just people looking too deeply into something and coming out with wild ideas. I mean, come on, I've met people who compare Frodo from The Lord of the Rings to the terrorists who caused 9/11 because of the decided upon method of defeating Sauron (sneaking in). If there is a twisted angle to take, someone will take it.
Plus, this is a family movie. Even with Bluth's intentions of making this a longer and more intense family film than the norm, I think he was only going to go so far with how dark it could get before reaching a finely laid out line.
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The future is for the living, Malte. I maintain that they are still very alive at the end in order for the theme of working together for a greater future to work.
Please, please read what I am writing. I Never claimed that LBT as it is suggests the Great Valley to be heaven; or that the characters died in the first movie. If you read the beginning of this thread you will find that NOBODY ever said that with regard to the movie as it is. All that this rumor was about was that there was an alternative concept in which the Great Valley was presented in that way. It is very obvious that this concept (if it ever existed) was abandoned in favor of the Great Valley as a real place and all of the main characters surviving the movie.
All that I did say is that unlike some other rumors this one may be a bit more credible judging from the facts given in previous posts already.
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I didn't say you said that. I wrote in those comments to illustrate that I think the idea is complete poppycock and was never intended at any point and that there's no possibility of it ever ocurring in my mind. I should probably have picked different words. Sorry.
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When exactly would they have died? :huh:
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When exactly would they have died? :huh:
The "heaven ending" was a half-baked idea. Evidence for it being pursued to any degree by the animators is fragmentary at best. Perhaps a scene where the Gang's death would be implied had never even been drawn. The movie as it is certainly doesn't show any point at which it could be inferred that the kids died.
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Thanks. Yeah...it just doesn't seem right.
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I actually think that would have been even better ending than the real one because the ending would have been more original and given the tone of the film, the rumored ending would be more logical. I even believe that the rumor is true because there are so many signs of it.
First Littlefoot in depression, then his mother's ghost appears to guide him, then a tunnel that leads him to paradise and finally the changing of environment in colour and the final quote by Littlefoot.
Because of these reasons i believe the rumor is true even if Don Bluth has forbidden it.
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I even believe that the rumor is true because there are so many signs of it.
First Littlefoot in depression, then his mother's ghost appears to guide him, then a tunnel that leads him to paradise and finally the changing of environment in colour and the final quote by Littlefoot.
Because of these reasons i believe the rumor is true even if Don Bluth has forbidden it.
But that wouldn't make sense because in the original order of scenes the mothers ghost appears earlier in the movie.
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That's true, but in the cut version i must say the rumored ending makes the most sense. Pikkutassu, I know this should go to other discussion, but if you have seen the uncut film maybe there is something more you could tell about missing scenes?
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I remember many years back reading this topic on IMDB; it was even flat out debunked by a member who had been one of the animators on the film (he had some interesting posts about production, I recall, but I don't think he ever mentioned anything about deleted scenes)!
Someone on T
vTropes even wrote a whole theory that the film was intended to end this way, and each character/event is an allegory for religious followers and the afterlife.
Read it here (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WMG/TheLandBeforeTime) (it's halfway down the page). Interesting, but certainly not the intended direction of the film. Besides, as somebody pointed out, if they're all dead, why isn't Littlefoot's mother with them(although someone else jokingly suggested that the GOF were in Hell; hence the music)?
I once toyed with the idea of writing a fan-fic of sorts vaguely based on this idea - it would have been many many years after LBT; at the K-T Event. Similar setup; disaster strikes, youngsters are thrown together, except each would be dead (without realising it) and each ends up on their own at some point; confronting a manifestation of their greatest personal failing/fear. If they manage to defeat it, they move on to a spiritual "Great Valley" of sorts.
Basically, almost every character would be picked off, and then the last surviving one would see something that would prove to them they were dead, and stand up to confront the manifestation or whatever, at which point they would move on (not intended to be religous or anything, just a cheesy "twist" ending).
Problem was, in trying to write this I ended up with too many plot ideas and problems(Would "spirits" appear to the dead characters? Would characters who were beaten by the manifestation be lost forever? Should one character survive; perhaps a mammal?), and the whole thing was a mess that didn't make sense.
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The main title of the movie is "If we hold on together" and the corresponding message is that they can do everything and manage all dangers if they work as a team of friends.
If they would be all dead in heaven then the message would be something like "If we hold on together, we will fail together".
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Yeah meaning they need to work as one to help each other out in time of need.