An issue

DarkHououmon · **on:** August 23, 2009, 12:22:19 PM

Today, I rebooted my computer normally after I lost internet (if I don't reboot, the computer encounters a serious error and automatically reboots, probably because of a conflict with the LAN card, or so I heard). Upon reboot, though, the computer initiated Checkdisk. I let it go through since, in the past, it never found errors. But this time it did. It deleted several corrupt files (the only one I wrote down was attribute record 128, " " and record segment 227377). It also recovered orphaned files and reinserted data for 227377. The computer loaded up fine, but the fact that it found several corrupt files has me worried.

Recently, for the past few months, this computer has been suffering from issues. The first issue was when I was downloading from Softpedia. While nothing happened the first many times I downloaded, on one occassion, it caused Opera to freeze up and Panda to go nuts, forcing me to reboot. For a while, this problem persisted, striking when I was either in the Transfers section of Opera or in My Documents, where I saved the files, until I got a cheaper version of Panda. Although, due to the problems from earlier, I've been wary of going into My Documents or using Opera to download.

The next issue that occurred was when I had installed Zone Alarm and Panda Cloud. Upon installing it, files would stop opening after a certain amount of time, forcing me to force a reboot just to continue using the computer. I eventually uninstalled Zone Alarm and tried install a trial of the latest Panda, but it wouldn't let me update. Despite multiple tries, it didn't work, so I put on AVG and turned Windows Firewall back on. But now, on occassion, once every hour it seems, the Windows Firewall goes down temporarily, lasting anywhere between a second to several seconds, always turning itself back on. I suspect this may be the result in a conflict likely caused when Zone Alarm was installed.

Prior to getting Zone Alarm, the computer stopped working altogether, refusing to turn on. My dad took a look inside and discovered it was covered in dust. We hadn't cleaned the computer since we got it, so that was about 2 years worth of dust collecting there. The dust had caused significant damage to force the computer to not turn on. Once the dust was cleaned up, though, the computer did turn on. For a while, though, it would reboot, likely because of the drop in temperature. But when I have the computer off for a length of time, it would reboot a few times before settling down.

I'm starting to wonder if the dust may have played a part in the issues I've been having. Well most of them anyway. Perhaps the dust caused damage to some hardware inside the computer. I hope to take a look inside it soon. If the problem is caused internally, I could either hope to find the right parts and repair it, or get a whole new computer. If the problem is not internal, but rather software issue, I may have to perform a total reformat, something I'm not looking forward to.

Anyone have any thoughts of the issues I've been having? Anyone have any similar experiences?

Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention that, when I try to do a full system scan (unless I'm in Safe Mode) the computer shows Delayed Windows Write Error and data loss in $BMP I think. Also, on my external harddrive, some strange folders have showed up, containing Windows files, such as the Malicious Tool Removal. How they got there, I dunno. And the old version of MSN wouldn't load up anymore, forcing me to update to the latest version. Not sure why since, before, I could use MSN just fine. AIM 6 sometimes freezes when I try to talk to people, so I have to use a much older version.

landbeforetimelover · **Reply #1 on:** August 23, 2009, 02:23:42 PM

It sounds like a heat issue. I'd take a look at all the fans and make sure they're spinning fast enough. Perhaps try pushing the fan against the CPU gently to make sure it hasn't come loose a bit. You might need to reapply thermal paste to the CPU itself, though I doubt it.

Why do you resist formatting so badly when you have an external hard drive? It takes 2 hours tops whereas all this scanning and messing around with all this unnecessary stuff takes dozens of hours. If you need to format your XP computer, you may follow the instructions in this thread:

http://z7.invisionfree.com/thegangoffive/i...?showtopic=6440

If it's a Vista computer, send me a PM and I might be able to get you a Vista disk that will accept OEM keys. If my computer just froze up and forced me to restart that's when I'd grab the XP/Vista disk. As soon as there are any real problems that are going to take a couple of hours to scan I just format the computer. It's a lot quicker and gets rid of ALL problems at once. I used to resist formatting before I got an external hard drive, but now that I have one I see no reason to spend dozens of hours trying to "fix" the problem when I can just wipe the problem out instead.

DarkHououmon · **Reply #2 on:** August 23, 2009, 02:52:30 PM

The issue is with the XP. I do have a Vista that works fine, so if this computer dies, I can still communicate with the other computer.

As for the heat issue, I have some doubts on that. One time I turned the computer off, which means it could not have been generating its own heat. Yet when I turn it on, the computer would reboot until it would "warm up" so to speak. And when Clint had it off for a while, looking inside, it rebooted, though this time only once. If heat is the issue, I think it's more of an underheating issue, if that makes sense. It's almost like the computer is losing its ability to perform as well after cooling down for too long.

Reformatting I see as an absolute last resort. I have grown to hate reformatting because, on the older computer, we'd have to reformat way too often, more than once a year. I understand that, in some situations, it's the only option. But it's the option I want to avoid unless there is no choice. Another reason I'm not happy about the idea of reformatting is that I have some programs on here that were hard to obtain; they will not work on the external alone due to the registry keys being needed. So I'm iffy about reformatting because I'll lose those programs and they may be difficult to get back. But they are at least backed up on the external, as are most of the other files.

Though now I admit, part of me is hoping that all I need to do is reformat; it would be the cheapest alternative. But before I can even conclude a reformat is a possible option, I'd have to make sure the computer itself isn't damaged; if the issue is indeed hardware, a reformat won't help.

landbeforetimelover · **Reply #3 on:** August 23, 2009, 03:17:43 PM

Well if it's rebooting like that and it's NOT from heat, it can only be one of four things. It's either a virus, the PSU, the ram, or the hard drive (not likely). When does it reboot? Does it only reboot when you see the Windows boot screen or when you're in Windows? If that's the case it could just be a virus.

Next time, save the install exe files on your external hard drive and save the registry keys there too. As for formatting being a last resort if I didn't make all my clients do clean formats every time they see me their bills would be astronomical. I charge $35/hr. Wiping the computer and restoring their data takes 2-3 hours depending on how much they want me to back up. If I fixed their computers problems it would take 10+ hours. It's not worth it to spend $350 fixing a 5 year old computer. I'm not like Geek Squad. Besides, even if I spend that 10 hours fixing their problems, there would still be more to fix and their computers would be trashed again in a few months. I have clients who come in once every 4-6 months to have me perform a format because they know how much faster it makes their machines and how it removes all problems.

And having to format more than once every year is common with Pre-SP, SP1, and SP2 versions of Windows XP. If you install the version I have on my server you won't have so many problems.

If the programs you're afraid to lose are legal copies (not pirated) then all you have to do is enter the registry and export the license registry keys. Then go find a trail online and install it. Then run the exported registry license key and you're good as new.

Formatting shouldn't be looked at as something you do as a last resort, but like something you do once or twice a year.....just like you scan for viruses once or twice a week. It should be part of your regular maintenance schedule. If I can keep up with and format all my computers twice a year, you can do it to 1 or 2 of them. Formatting isn't a big deal at all so long as you know how to back stuff up properly. This includes your personal files AND programs.

DarkHououmon · **Reply #4 on:** August 23, 2009, 03:42:23 PM

The rebooting will occur for a little while after the computer is turned back on after being off for a while. The rebooting happens suddenly and, often, when the computer loads back up again, it will give a message stating the system encountered a serious error. Been a while, but I'm pretty sure the file stated it was the dumpprep or something. Memory dump I believe.

How do you copy registry keys to the external? I did think it was possible to do that, but I never figured out for certain if it was true or not.

landbeforetimelover · **Reply #5 on:** August 23, 2009, 03:50:57 PM

There's a good possibility it's a virus that's causing the reboots.

As for the registry backup keys, just go to start, run, then type in regedit. Go to the path HKEY_CURRENT_USER/software and find the name of the software you want to back up the key to. There should be a key that says something along the lines of "license". Just export that key and save the .reg file to your external hard disk. Export it by clicking on the key you want and going to File > Export.

I hope I don't have to warn you, but DO NOT mess around in the registry or change any values. Just export any data you need and get out of there. You can really screw up your computer in the registry editor if you start changing/deleting stuff.

DarkHououmon · **Reply #6 on:** August 23, 2009, 04:03:09 PM

I did do a scan a few weeks ago with Malwarebytes in safe mode and it did find a Trojan Downloader, which it removed. Nothing else, though. I may try a scan with AVG in safe mode next time.

And as for the registry keys, yeah I'm well aware that screwing with them can mess up the computer. I have viewed the registry keys before and I never changed anything for fear I'd mess things up.

Petrie. · **Reply #7 on:** August 23, 2009, 04:15:06 PM

I'm going to side with Austin and say virus. They have many ways to cause computers to behave irrationally.

Petrie. · **Reply #8 on:** August 23, 2009, 04:25:26 PM

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And having to format more than once every year is common with Pre-SP, SP1, and SP2 versions of Windows XP. If you install the version I have on my server you won't have so many problems.

That's only for people who can't take care of their machines (people who bring their computers to you because there's issues). If you can take care of your machine, keep things up to date, use cleaning tools, you never need to format. Sorry if I sound mean or something, but I don't think people need to be doing all this unless they've really messed up Windows to the point it doesn't load at all....then you might as well. If your XP computer works, do what you got to and don't worry about reformatting.

landbeforetimelover · **Reply #9 on:** August 23, 2009, 04:47:55 PM

If I get a virus, it takes a minimum of 3 hours to do a scan. In less than 2 hours I can have the thing reformatted. There's not even a guarantee that the scan will solve the problem #1 and #2 there's most likely other problems to go along with it. I only get a virus that gets past the resistance shield like twice a year so instead of spending hours upon hours scanning it's better and easier to just format.

Petrie. · **Reply #10 on:** August 23, 2009, 08:21:50 PM

For you perhaps, but I know what you do online and you also have tons of more files than me. There's no comparison.

landbeforetimelover · **Reply #11 on:** August 23, 2009, 09:02:56 PM

Even on a computer with only 20gb of files it can take a good 45 minutes for AVG to completely scan the thing. Even then there's no guarantee it'll find anything. Unless you're getting a new virus every week, a format is a more viable option. By the time you get your first virus, your computer is all junked up and slow. Formatting will get rid of the virus and make your computer perform like new. I don't understand why so many people resist formatting when it's so easy and takes only a little longer than scanning for viruses. It might be because you people get viruses all the time. I don't know. I get probably 3 or more viruses per day, but AVG catches them before they can actually enter my system. But if you're getting a lot of viruses I can see why you don't want to format every time you become infected.

DarkHououmon · **Reply #12 on:** August 23, 2009, 09:18:25 PM

I'm not saying reformatting is bad; I just believe it should only be done as absolute last resort. There are other alternatives to reformatting if the computer won't load up properly as well, particularly bootable discs. These discs allow you to scan the computer for viruses without having to load up all the drivers. I feel this option is better than reformatting because it saves the trouble of having to wipe the entire computer and reinstall the system.

The only time I feel a reformat is necessary is if the computer won't load up or runs very poorly and if there is absolutely no way to scan effectively for viruses and if those scans are unable to fix the problem.

Petrie. · **Reply #13 on:** August 23, 2009, 09:54:34 PM

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I get probably 3 or more viruses per day, but AVG catches them before they can actually enter my system. But if you're getting a lot of viruses I can see why you don't want to format every time you become infected.

Don't you think a line like "I probably get 3 viruses a day" speaks for itself as to why you support re-formatting a machine? For those who don't go to sites that give viruses on a regular basis....you could go many years before your system is junked enough that it no longer works.

landbeforetimelover · **Reply #14 on:** August 23, 2009, 10:00:13 PM

Naw. I don't actually get the viruses. My computers are 100% clean. They just get junked up with tons of programs that I've uninstalled and lots of files I have just lying around in random places. Once the hard drive fills past 35% the computer becomes considerably slower. My junk comes from loading tons of stuff on and taking it off as well as poor organization. Trust me, most people junk up the computers I sell in less than a month. Whenever I have to honor a warranty the computer is SUPER slow when I get it back because of all the crap they've put on it.

EDIT:
Let me put it this way. If your computer is less than 6 years old and takes more than a minute to start up, there's something seriously wrong with it. If you have high speed internet and it takes more than 1 second to load a page, there's something wrong with your computer. If it takes more than 2-3 seconds to start Firefox, there's something wrong with your computer. Everything SHOULD be instant. If it's not, your computer is junked up and needs to be formatted. You can keep it nice and fast by keeping it virus free and cleaning up the startup processes every once in awhile. Everyone always asks how my computers are "so f****** fast" and I tell them I keep it clean and format it twice a year. That's all you have to do and you'll have no problems.

I'm not saying you don't need to perform regular maintenance on the thing, but it's not necessary to spend dozens of hours scanning for stuff when your computer is probably crammed full and could use a format anyways. Just because the computer works doesn't mean it's working properly. If everything's not virtually instant there's something wrong. Your best option is to format then keep up with the maintenance so you don't have to format for at least 6 months. I guess you could say I'm spoiled. Being a tech makes me have high expectations about how a computer should perform. If I have to wait more than a few seconds for ANYTHING I get very impatient. My startup is roughly 15 seconds on my master machine (not including POST and boot screen) and I'm running Windows Vista! If you've got XP it should be even quicker if you've got a machine with my specs.

Alex · **Reply #15 on:** August 23, 2009, 10:18:55 PM

Personally, I don't like to reformat. But then again, my computer never has anything wrong with it.

Anyway, reformatting in this case would be the best option. I had a similar problem a few years ago, and I believe that's how the technician fixed it (even though the idiot didn't backup any of my files). You could've had it done by now if you had done it when Austin first suggested it.

Grungecat · **Reply #16 on:** August 23, 2009, 11:49:06 PM

I've reformatted more than a few times. 20 minutes max every time!

Petrie. · **Reply #17 on:** August 24, 2009, 08:10:02 AM

I guess you'd be disappointed with my machine then.

Or maybe you'd be more amazed on how well I've kept it going for three years without a reformat.

Kor · **Reply #18 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:45:24 AM

It's been over 10 years since I've had any computer with a hdd that needed to be reformatted.

landbeforetimelover · **Reply #19 on:** August 24, 2009, 12:59:01 PM

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I guess you'd be disappointed with my machine then. dino_tongue.gif Or maybe you'd be more amazed on how well I've kept it going for three years without a reformat.

I'm feeling sick now. I love those little Dell laptops like the one you have. To think the poor thing hasn't been formatted in 3 full years. I could probably keep it going at a reasonable speed for 3 years, but I would have spent hundreds of hours "fixing" it by now.

No doubt you're a lot better with computers than the many idiots that come to me on a daily basis, but I doubt your computer is running very well at all compared to my little Dell laptop of the same (or very close) model. You shouldn't wait until you can no longer use your computer to format. If even 1 weird thing happens or it starts getting slow, format the sucker! I don't see what the big deal is. Back up your install exe's and serial numbers on your external hard drive. Store your pictures, videos, and other files there too. That way you'll be able to format very quickly and you'll always have a snappy computer.

As a tech it's my duty to get things fixed as quickly as possible so people aren't forced to pay $350 to fix a 7 year old computer like at the Geek Squad. If I just "fixed" the problems they were complaining about, they'd just be back in a couple of weeks....perhaps a month complaining about new things. And of course it would probably take 5 hours minimum to fix most people's problems.

I have a laptop with a busted optical drive I got for free from a client. It's a dual core Centrino processor with 1.5gb of ram and a 120gb hard disk. I had to clean the crap out of that sucker because I couldn't format it. Despite this fact it's still not nearly as fast as if I had formatted it. It runs half decently...but I wouldn't trust it to store anything vital or do anything important.

Let me put it to you this way. I NEVER get any error messages and nothing weird ever happens to my computers. After 6-12 months I might get something like that and I just format because it needs it anyways. My startup is faster than any I've ever seen. Even brand new computers with quad core processors don't start up nearly as fast as mine. My point is, I am a master at keeping a computer clean and efficient and it's not because I format all the time. I'm able to keep a computer 100% clean and functional for 6-12 months and when something eventually goes wrong, rather then spend a dozen hours "fixing" the problem I just format. There'll be no weird errors or other garbage plaguing my computers!